I Wish I Started Infinite Banking Sooner

What advice would you share with other entrepreneurs, either in your space or just in general? Like, what advice would you share as it relates to your own journey? And if you could sort of look back, you know, in hindsight to 2019 and fast forward to today, what are some lessons that you've learned that you want to pass along?

Oh, well, the obvious one is to get these policies underway right off the bat. That's the main thing, to make use of your money while your money is still working. That's the game changer. Foreign.

The stars are lining up with Starlink. From deep dives to the pursuit of financial freedom. How Art is becoming his own banker. Art, it's a pleasure to have you with us here today. I know our guests are going to be thrilled with the show and whenever we have an opportunity, especially to talk to a fellow entrepreneur, given that your entrepreneurial pursuits got underway back in 2019, but you've been investing in real estate as far back as 2007, 2008. So we're looking forward to having a good conversation around your journey and your points of view around the process of becoming your own banker and how that's impacting your life. And we understand that you're joining us live via Starlink from your boat.

I am, I am.

Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. I mean, that's the ultimate goal, right? You live, live a life by design and set yourself up properly so that you can take away the stresses of doing that. Yeah.

And you know what's interesting? Can I share this with you? Just as a fellow entrepreneur, as you, as you get to that point where you're achieving your ideal lifestyle and, and you're building on that, you have more freedom of time and more freedom of money and all the things that, you know, are the byproduct of, of working really, really hard for a really long time. Some people, even in your own industry, you know, with KW and what you do in, in the real estate business, I guarantee you there are people who are jealous of what you've got, but they're not jealous of how you got it.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because the majority of the people think it was just handed down. Yeah. That, that's always the first. Oh, you must have rich parents, you know. Yeah, Everybody, everybody thinks that and assumes that in the beginning, but it takes work and it takes sacrifice. I mean, that's the big, that's the big word out of all of it. And even, even with, you know, what we're going to get into with the policy and everything else, there's a fair amount of sacrifice that goes along with that too, to get yourself set up. So it's just discipline and, and, you know, I lived, I lived a fantastic life when I was younger, making a really good income as a saturation diver and blowing every penny of it just hand over fist. You know, I would get home from the job and by the time, going back to the next contract, I'd have to borrow money to make rent. You know, the same old story that you hear all the time, but it was, it was, it was true. And then I guess when I got closer to my 40s, my, my wife said to me, you know, it's time to grow up. Like, we really have to grow up and we really have to start acquiring assets and setting ourselves up properly. So, yeah, it's. Yeah. I mean, the point, the point behind that is that once you make that decision and you're ready to, you know, be disciplined about it and make the little sacrifices, it really doesn't take that long to get yourself set up. You just have to, just have to, you know, have the right mentors and the right, know, ask the right questions to the right people, the people that are willing to help you and. And away you go. It accelerates pretty quick from there. It's very true.

I think it's interesting, art, because, you know, you've got a, a wide history of real estate background, you know, almost 20 years of investing in real estate. And of course you're, you're, you're zooming in from the boat here. You're about to go on this epic family adventures journey, which is so cool that that's about to happen. What I'm really curious about is, you know, coming from a real estate background, at what point did the idea, the concept of becoming your own banker kind of enter your sphere of, of influence? How did it, how did it show up for you first? And, and I'm, I'm just wondering is like, was it through a real estate circle or was it some, something independent you were doing on the sidelines where it's like, oh, that's really interesting. Like, where did it come about?

That. That's a great question because, yeah, it's, it's a funny story. You know, I was, I was back in probably, I would say, 2007, we started coaching program with rich dad, poor dad, and they were all, you know, the coaches, and we had Robert live sometimes one on one on the, on the, on the calls, and they were always preaching about, be your own bank. You got to be your own Bank. And every time I would. I would ask them, you know, how am I able to qualify for this and that? And they would just shake their heads. And I kept. Not that I was resisting it, but I kept arguing and saying, okay, you're in the US And I'm in Canada, so this doesn't work here, and I don't want to hear about it anymore, you know, but the bug was always in my. In the back of my mind, like, what. What are they talking about? And of course, you know, that's the way he is, and that's the way the program is, is they'll. They'll set the seed, but they're not going to walk you through the whole thing. They set the seed, and you. You need to get out and do your research and all that. So. So, I mean, that was back in 2007. And so we're looking at what Jason, when I. By the time I signed up, would have been 20, 21 or something. Yeah, so that's a. Yeah, that's a long. That's a long back burner.

You're a little slow, but worth waiting for.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was always on. I was always on the back burner and always on my mind. You know, you hear it all the time. The slogan, be your own bank. It's just a constant thing. And then we just started to really dive into it, because real estate, although I've been doing real estate for a long time, real estate as itself is a very slow vehicle. Right. So a lot of people are focused on cash flow with real estate, but that's not really where the money is. The money's in the equity and everything else over time and then making use of that equity. Right? So when you. When you're pulling out this equity, and I like to call it phantom income, because you're just creating it out of thin air, basically riding, you know, doing all your other force appreciations. When you pull that money out, a lot of people, they're just going to reinvest that back real estate. But for me, I just knew that there was something. Something. There was something missing. There was a missing link in between, you know, buying the real estate, enforcing the appreciation, refinancing, pulling out the equity, okay. And then buy more real estate. There's got to be something to help me grow exponentially rather than just doing that repetitive process. Because, you know, I mean, every single door that you buy and every single door that you require, you're just adding another job. You know, you've just checked another job. So Ideally, you want the minimum amount of doors, the maximum return. And then really this setting up this policy and getting everything going, or these two policies, getting everything going has been that missing link for me. And, you know, it's hard for me to talk about it without just a smile from ear to ear because it still really doesn't make sense to me how this is even possible.

You know, what would you say? And this is just an interesting question that I've been asking lately. You know, given that with any financial topic, if you just pick any financial topic, like, I've personally seen a lot of confidently expressed bad opinions.

Okay.

And I'll just say that. So if somebody was to say to you, like, art, like, is becoming your own banker, this infinite banking concept is just bullshit, what would your response be?

Are you doing it? That'd be the first question. You know, the, the first year that I had the policy. Not that I ever thought that it was because, you know, people that I look up to and, and mentors and coaches and everything else, they're doing it.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's. What's the, what's the saying about not taking. Not. Not taking people or. Sorry, not taking advice from. From those who aren't where you want to be. Right, Right. So there's no sense in me listening to my father or listening to somebody else who's not where I want to be. You know, they have their own path and everything else. So right from the beginning, I knew there had to be something to it because obviously they're. They're where they are, and I'm. I'm not there and I'm doing everything else right. And like I mentioned the missing link. I'm doing everything else right, but I. I'm just not accelerating my wealth like I wanted to do. So for me, there was always that confidence in it. So when I hear people say that, that's the first question I asked. Do you have. Have you set up a policy or have you set up a call with Jason or Sarblo or anybody like that? And then really, I'm totally open to. I bought. I even bought a bit. I think I might have told you this. I bought a huge whiteboard at my house. And that is for my friends. And when they have any. Any doubts, I bring them over to the house, I haul out the whiteboard, you know, and of course, the people have been through this seminar many times. They're just rolling their eyes. They're like, oh, here we go again. But as you know, once I, Once I made that Leap of faith and started. That's really when you, when you really start to learn about, you know, the advantages of it and the different, the different techniques and, you know, the way it all works. I'm sure we'll get into stuff like that, but really right from the very beginning, there was always this confidence, low level confidence that I had. If this is something, this is a missing link, I got to get started with it and then we'll figure it out as we go. And that's pretty much how I've run my life. When, when I was younger, people used to always say, not that I take a lot of risks, but my motto was always just bite off more than you can chew and then just chew faster and just keep biting off more and just chewing faster and chewing faster.

Oh, the life of an entrepreneur.

Yeah, exactly. It was the same thing with, with the infinite banking was, you know, my wife, my wife, would she do all the due diligence and she's, you know, she's reading the books and she's making the phone calls and everything else and I'm just, let's go, let's go for it, let's jump in. Because that's what really, we're going to figure it out. And even now, you know, into halfway through year two, or three quarters of the way through year two, I'm still learning, still new things that I can do that I didn't even know that I could do. It's still.

Well, you'll always be learning that. That's, that is what becoming your own banker, the essence of that is it's not, it's not. There's no point where you'll stop and say I've got it. Like I've learned there is to know about this process. And one of the things that we often share, especially with the real estate investor client that we deal with, who has an abundance of experience like you do and who's been around for a few cycles and has seen what's happened out there in the real estate investment space. Every real estate investor that we meet with, there's a high probability that they owe a lot of money. And so we, we can describe all the financing characteristics of a policy and all the control that it gives you and ready access capital. But by the same token, real estate investors rarely have I met with one where they say, I've got my succession planning all figured out, I've got my estate plan pinned down, dialed in. No, they're energized and focused on the next deal, on growing their portfolio and so we can't skip over the permanent death benefit characteristics and what will happen in terms of the delivery of money when it's needed the most. And that, Richard can attest, has been what we've expressed as our definition of the best investment, one that pays the most when it's needed the most. And so for any other real estate investors who are viewing and listening, what would your advice be to them as it relates to, now that you've got an understanding of both sides of the coin, all the financing characteristics, along with the guaranteed delivery of a tax free windfall of money exactly when it's going to be needed the most, what would you say to fellow real estate investors?

Well, you know that, that's a good point because a lot of times you get, you get caught up in how can I use the policy, right? But the fact that it's, it's life insurance backed, so just that alone is, is secure on its own. And coming from being a saturation diver trying to get any type of life insurance. When I was a diver, forget about it. Yeah, it was basically impossible. And even if I could, it was very small and very expensive. And so when, when you and I first chatted and, and, and you, you know, ran through everything with me and you showed me what was possible, it gives you this peace of mind right off the bat. So ignore all the financial aspects and all the uses and the fun stuff that you can do with that right off the bat. You know, I could walk out, walk out the door, get hit by a bus and immediately know that, okay, my family's going to be taken care of from this point forward. So that's kind of ground zero with this policy. So when I do wheel out my whiteboard and start marking things down and boring some people to death, the very first thing that I say right off the bat is if I walk out today, slip and fall, that's it, my family is covered. And that is peace of mind. And that's really where it starts. And then we can get into the more complications of using it properly. But you're right, that's a very good point. But that, that is, that brings peace. So we're talking to other entrepreneurs and other real estate focused individuals that are able to pull some good equity and then wondering what to do with that equity, you know, by, by really digging into these policies and remembering that the bottom line is you are a succession planning. So yes, you have a big portfolio and the portfolio is going to, you know, if you do it properly, could be pretty much tax Free, if you're done it properly to hand down, you're still handing down a job. Right. So it's, it's not quite the same as the comfort of handing down, you know, a windfall of tax free money. You know, it's. Yeah, that's a very good point. It's, it's, it's a whole other side of it, but it's super important.

Well, I'm really curious because, you know, you're, you've experienced some market cycles, you've got property in different locations, you've seen some ups and downs, we've seen some interest rate movement now where again, the dynamics of what a real estate investor was doing has to shift and change, has to meet the market condition. And when you think about just what you've experienced in the properties that you own, I mean, I know you've done, you got a renovation company, you've got a multiple, you got a vending, you know, company, you got a whole bunch of different kind of things going on. But you know, when it comes to the real estate, what, what would you say is different? If you're thinking about growing your portfolio or looking at real estate deals today, now that you've incorporated the process, becoming your own banker into your life versus what you were doing before, how would you say that, that mindset, what's like, what's changed mentally as you would look at a new deal today versus in the past?

Well, really, I think speed of acquisition has changed quite a bit. You know, and, and when I, when I'm talking about speed of acquisition, I mean that I'm, I'm no longer in a big rush with this money to use. Right. So when I pull out equity before, before up, before the policies and before the setup and you're sitting on all this cash, you're just looking for the next deal really quick. Yeah. And maybe, maybe you're going to jump into something that you wouldn't have if you had the, the luxury of making money while you wait. Right. That, that, that's one of the big things. So it really takes that edge off a little bit. And having said that, there are some properties in my portfolio that have been those type of mistakes. But after you've worked and pulled, pulled those mistakes through, you're going to carry them on. So my, when I look back at my portfolio, I think to myself, well, I probably wouldn't have bought that if I had already had this policy going on and I wasn't in such a rush to get something right away to put the money back to work, you know, I, I would have. I would probably would not have bought. So. So that's a big advantage. And, and when you're talking about now with the interest rates the way they are and the interest rates, first of all, I want to say the interest rates are not that bad. We've had. We've seen much worse interest rates than they are right now. But where people think that they're bad is people have come in in the last five years, you know, and it was free money basically all over the place. What I say to those people in regards to the policy is that you can sort of balance out the volatility of the interest rates by using these policies to store your. Store your funds, store your equity, get ready, ride out the wave, just make those decisions. So it's really just a nice way to take the edge off of being a real estate investor, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it's a buffer for your, for your real estate activity to give you that, that time, the peace of mind and to have a little bit more autonomy over not just some of your decisions, but being able to have, like, the time to maybe know the knowledge that you can wait to make certain decisions around even an existing thing in your portfolio. Like sometimes a property is a really good property, and then it's a bad property for a while and you have to ride the storm out. Having the policy in place kind of allows you the ability to ride it out a little bit better. It's kind of one of the things I picked up there. Art, is that, Is that a fair assessment?

Yep. No, that's exactly right.

Well, you know, Art, too, what I. What I'm really curious just to hear your insights on what's exciting you the most in the real estate investment space right now. What do you. What are you most energized about?

Waiting? I'm excited because all of these, not all of these people, but a lot of people got themselves over leveraged. Yeah. You know, because everything was so cheap and you know, when you're buying things and you're over leveraging yourself and then even just a couple of points difference in the interest rates at time of refinance. So they're coming into a position, you know, where they've used private money or whatever, and now they need to refinance. They're forced either refinance or sell. And if you have four or five properties that you picked up over the last year because it was, you know, really easy to get money, and then you're coming to refinance the bank might refinance one or two, but then they're going to start to say, okay, well, wait a minute, we just refinanced these two. It's getting more and more risky to keep going down the refinance, so they might be forced to sell rather than refinance. So really, I'm in the position right now where I'm, I'm starting to stockpile. So any, any equity that I'm pulling, I'm just holding and holding and holding. And not, not that you ever wish anything bad for anybody. Obviously you want everybody to be successful, but you still need to, you know, maintain your, your composure and weight because you know what's coming in the next year or two years.

Well, and it takes, it takes a degree of experience and patience, but educated degree of patience because you, you know, you know what's coming in the way of opportunity. And if you sort of think about your journey as an entrepreneur now up to this point, what, what advice would you share with other entrepreneurs either in your space or just in general, like, what advice would you share as it relates to your own journey? And if you could sort of look back, you know, in hindsight to 2019 and fast forward to today, what are some lessons that you've learned that you want to pass along?

Oh, well, the obvious one is to get these policies underway right off the bat. You know that that's the main thing to be to, to, to make use of your money while your money is still working. That's, you know, that to me, that's, that's the game changer. So when I'm borrowing against my death benefit and I'm putting that money to work elsewhere, and yet know that the money that I had to work to earn. Because you know what, essentially, if you're working a job, let's say you're working a job, well, you're, people forget that that's actually a trade. So you're, you're trading your time for money. And so I break it all the way down. When I talk to clients or when I talk to, you know, I have a small coaching program as well, I break it all the way down and I start reminding them that you're trading your heartbeats, your limited heartbeats in your life. You're trading that for some sort of money. Let's say you work at McDonald's and I don't know what the wages, but maybe $12 an hour, you're making the decision, I'm going to trade one hour of my life. I'm one hour closer to death for $12. So that trade is so important that the last thing that you want to do is kill that $12. If you take that $12 and you pay a bill or you take that $12 and you buy a, whatever you want to buy, television, whatever, not that you can buy TV for 12 bucks, but you get the concept, it's gone, it's gone forever. And so this policy and being an entrepreneur and getting in, you know, running down those roads, my advice would be to get, start looking into this, get started on it right away, get it rolling and keep your, I call it your soldiers. Keep your soldiers alive by putting them into this policy. So even now, if I pull against my death benefit and I, you know, make the purchases, my money that I had to work for and trade, every heart is still in there, still working, still doing its thing. And so that, to me, that's the biggest advice more than anything. Because time, time is limited. You know, that's our one equalizer across the planet. No matter how much money you have and how wealthy you are or however poor you are, we're all limited by our lifespan. And that doesn't change for anybody for now. Very true.

And it goes by quite, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does. I'll be 50 next month, by the way. Yeah, me too, in November. Yeah, half a century.

Well, you know, Art, you've got, you got two kids and four grandkids. I'm curious, as you were looking at implementing this, you're in discussion with Jason, you're exploring and you're, you said your wife's doing all the research. What are some of the things, you know, reflecting back now, going through that process and just thinking about your own children and, and the grandchildren, how, how has this process changed or, or given you a different outlook, I guess, on some of the things that are going to happen into your future and their, and their future?

Well, right now, really, my, my biggest concern is, you know, when you're doing your succession planning. So the biggest concern is how do I force them to, to also give the policy. Right. So I'm starting to look at other big families out there that are using this, the con, the same sort of concept and what they're doing generation after generation after generation. And so that's what I'm looking into right now. Because for me, it's one thing to get a big windfall, tax free windfall, but it's another thing just to blow it all and then that's the end. Right. So when you're looking at my children and grandchildren, you know, on and on and on. Every generation. I want to. I want to look into how to. How to expand that windfall, right, Rather than just cash it out and that's it. So that's where I am right now. So to me, that's the important. The important aspect about it. It's okay, you can use it yourself and do everything you need to do and take advantage of your, you know, keep your shoulders alive and everything that we talked about. But how do I guarantee that the next generation has the head on their shoulders to do the same thing over and over and. And keep growing? Right? It'll keep growing basically exponentially, especially if you use that windfall to, you know, purchase the next set of policies. Just imagine how big that is. And that's. And on and on and on. So for me, that's where I am right now, is. Is that's my worry. Not that it's a worry, but that's. That's my focus of that.

Absolutely. That. And it's transferring the. Transferring the wealth mentality. That's one thing that, you know, we've really been, I think, emphasizing at every opportunity because clients often share exactly what you just described and how they're feeling, that sense of, okay, things are in place. And I know that this is going to transfer, and we're just sort of shining a bright light on. Make sure you transfer the mentality along with it as well. And it's exactly that. That is a function of conversation time, educating, coaching. Like, I have my kids now sit in on meetings with me. So if my daughter's around, Charlotte or my son Jackson, who have both, you know, developed this. This deep interest in the business, I say just pull up. Pull up a seat and just be a spectator. I want you to see how I'm having conversations with people. I want you to hear the feedback, and I want you to be able to process it and have a discussion with me about it even at an early age. And so I encourage any entrepreneur watching this or, you know, listening to it. If you have kids, let's. That's one thing that just often gets overlooked. Like, have them tag along.

Y. Exactly.

And watch what they learn, because it's very rapid.

Yeah, it really is. And. And, you know, they. Both my kids, they. They're super excited about it. You know, that's. And I. I have them teach me. So I'll sit on the couch and I'll bring out the whiteboard, and I have them go through the whole thing and then maybe make a few corrections here. And there and what they're saying, then you really see that they have an understanding about it. And I just like you, I actually involve them in a lot of the transactions. So I show them what I'm doing. Why am I doing this? You know, I'll bring up the policies online, I'll show, I run them through the Excel sheets and the spreadsheets and look at, here's the daily amount and here's how much it changes and all of that stuff. And I work through that so that they can feel that excitement and feel the advantage of having this. And a lot of times, even with my clients going back to real estate sales, you know, with my clients, I would say that the only downfall now is that I have more confidence in these policies and that future than I do in real estate portfolio. So it's very difficult for me to maintain the salesman pitch right where I, I see a property and I'm just thinking to myself, you know, that money would be better off if you, you know what I mean? I gotta just be like, oh, you want to buy the property, but okay, let's buy the property.

Well, maybe you should get licensed and join the team.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was actually thinking, I wonder if Sour Blow is ever going to reach out and say, geez, you're sending so many people our way. You know, let's put on the Jersey food for thought. Yeah, yeah.

Well, it's, it's interesting that you're doing that with your, with your kids and kind of walking them through like say, logging in, looking at the insurance company values. And you mentioned like the excitement of looking at daily cash growth. I mean, it might not seem like a lot, but the fact that it's just happening is exciting. And I think that the fact that you can log in and see it is, is very, very powerful. Now you, you're also, you know, a private lender. You've been doing private lending for a while. You've got a, a whack of money out there in private loans and that you had been doing that as part of your, you know, adjacent real estate practice before you started down the track of ibc.

Right.

When you think about private lending now, what's changed as you would if you were to consider if a private deal showed up on your desk today, how would you look at it differently today versus, you know, before you started doing this process?

Well, you know, I can charge a little bit higher interest because I can be unsecured because we're really, for me, the risk like we talked about before with the trade, you know, you're trading your heartbeats for, for your soldiers, for your money, for your capital. When that capital is locked away and still working, you can take a little more risk with the lending out. So, and with, with a little more risk is a higher interest rate. So my returns are much higher now using the policy than they were before because I generally just do promissory notes at this point. Promissory notes. And I keep my, I keep my lending smaller. $50,000. That's what I limited at. Pull it out of the policy and lend it out. Because in my mind I feel comfortable knowing that even if they defaulted and everything else, it's not going to be a pretty situation. Of course you hope that that never happens. But my soldiers are still alive. They're still in there and they're still compounding daily. Yeah, every day. Right. So it, that was the biggest change for me when it comes to private lending. So my returns are, are definitely higher now than they were even, even with, you know, this is where all the naysayers come in. Well, why wouldn't you just lend out your money, you know, and, and take all the interest yourself and not pay interest to the policy? Well, they don't understand that the policy is shared ownership. So who am I paying interest to? And this is something I try to explain to them all the time. And now I just have a screenshot of the chip. My first check that I got at the end of the, the 12 months of the first year, I'm like, here's how much interest I paid, here's how much I got back in dividends into the, back into the policy.

Yeah.

So yeah, so that would be the biggest change for me from prior to the policies to now would just be the actual return on the investments. And the return is forever. That's what I love about it. You know, not forever obviously. Obviously I'm going to graduate at some point. But you know, you put the money in there and I've sort of, I've sort of started thinking about putting every dollar that I make. So I'm sort of, I'm sort of right now I'm trying to think about is there a way that I can. You know, obviously I have two fairly large policies. You know, my premiums are fairly high.

Yeah.

So that gives me a lot of over contribution room and I've taken advantage of that. I put money in, I blunt it out. But now I'm in the process of repaying. You know, like any other business, you want to repay your debts. We talked about that in our initial phone call. You don't want to just leave it out there. You can obviously want to, but I really see the impact of repaying, you know, so just to give you numbers, for example, I put 40,000 in last week as a repayment, and it's, it's immediately available at the 100%. So, you know, my, my brain says, why would you not just put everything in there again, just repay. Why hold this out if you have these lump sums? Just repay, repay, repayment. So, yeah, like I said, it's a learning process and I'm trying to take advantage of every angle and try every, everything to get a good grasp.

Well, and it's, your degree of understanding of it is amplified by simulating like you're actually, you're accessing policy loans, you're repaying policy loans. Think back to your diving career, where if you had just sat in a classroom and an instructor had a whiteboard and started drawing stick figures, diving down to the bottom of the depths of, you know, that, that body of water and saying, hey, like I just told you, everything you need to know about doing this, and let's go strap on the gear and throw you overboard and see how you do.

Oh, wait. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Not only would you pass panic, but you would likely end up in a really dangerous situation medically. And so that's why simulating it, working with a great coach like Sarblo, who's, you know, been serving you since your journey began. And it's super important that you've got a good coach who has dived many times y and can say, hey, let me help you and let me show you how to do this. And, but we'll, we'll do this gradually and incrementally is, is one of the key teaching points that we talk to people about all the time because often they want to go right to the depths right away. And we have to say, look, we've got to make sure that we can keep you in a degree of depth of water where something goes wrong, we're not too concerned. We can address it and help you out. But that's the thing that we have to dial back with folks more often than not is to say, Nelson, God rest his soul, you know, we were blessed beyond measure to, to be mentored by him for so many years. He often reminded us that this is meant to be achieved, becoming your own banker gradually and incrementally over a period of time. It's not meant to be accomplished overnight. And the more you see infinite banking Concepts, the more you'll see. You didn't see.

Yep, exactly.

And so when we're having this conversation next year, the year after, the year after, you will continually be sharing. Wow. Like I, I've got a whole amplified viewpoint of this process now because of all the simulation that I've had.

Yep.

And so keep doing that. Like, don't ever lose that. The, the, the capital's got to move. I was sharing with one of my teammates yesterday that money is a lot like shit. If you just leave it there in a pile, it stinks. But if you sprinkle it around, it grows stuff.

Yeah, gross. Yeah, right.

And my teammate just burst out laughing.

He's like, okay, I'm going to use that. I said, yeah, feel free to do that.

Because some people do put capital into policies and they just let the accessible the loan provision, they don't exercise it at all. The cash value just keeps piling up. But they're not utilizing the life insurance company's capital to take advantage of high caliber opportunities. And it's like that was the analogy that came up in that conversation. And both the policy owner and the teammate, they got it. They were like, oh, yeah, okay, it makes sense now. Interesting visual, but makes a little sense.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm curious, Art, you know, when you started exploring this and you first, you know, you learned about it early, early on, but you know, it wasn't until you got closer to the point where you got connected with, with our team, with Jason and Sarblo that you started to really get into the thick of it. But, but prior to reaching out, you know, prompting the, the to reach out to connect with Jason, what were some of the things that you were learning or hearing about this process and this concept that you found weren't really, weren't really true or accurate. Like what were some of the things you maybe heard that you found? Oh, well, actually once I get started doing that, like none of that really mattered. And you know, I'm just kind of curious, was there some, were there some misinformation things that you felt, oh, that, oh, that sounds really interesting. But then when you actually got started the process, you realize it's really nothing like that at all.

Yeah, quite a, Quite a few, Quite a few. And really it all, it all came initially from the negative side. Right. So everybody's always trying to talk you out of this and if this is a crazy situation and all of that, so you hear all of those things. So there's a lot of those that once you get started, you're just dispelling. Oh, my God, I was so wrong. I was so wrong. I was so wrong. So that more than anything, those are the big ones. But when you get started, I think that even though I got start, when I got started, I still didn't grasp how it's possible, right? So you can read the information, you can do all that, do all of that and prepare yourself, but until you get started, it still doesn't even make sense in your mind, right? So. So I knew the concept behind the whole thing. I knew how it was supposed to work. I talked to Jason, we talked to Sarah Blow. I knew the concept, but even right down to after starting the policies, I still couldn't understand how this was going to work. It just didn't make sense to me. And maybe it was because of all the negativity in the, in the, in, you know, over the years that you see on YouTube and all of this kind of stuff. It was probably because of that creating some sort of a mental block for me where I just couldn't grasp the concept. So I would say it would probably within three months then I start to realize, oh, wow, I can do this and I can do this and I can do this. And that was totally wrong. And that was totally wrong. And. And your, your, your mind just starts to expand and accept the whole thing, and then you don't even understand why people don't get it. You know, that's. For me, that's the biggest thing right now. Like, what do you mean you don't get this? This is easy, you know, and I often talk about, you know, when I, when I forward somebody to, to s. Blow, I, I often tell them, you know, use my, my policy. And everything I've talked about today is, is kind of a guide. But the benefit of talking to Sarblo and talking to the team is that they're going to design something for you to make sure you're successful. Right? So you can use, use my examples as a guide, but it might not apply to you because, you know, my policies were set up knowing that I have a. Something to fall back on as far as the real estate portfolio and, you know, equity and all that kind of stuff. That reminds me of a quick story. I know that you can edit it and chop it up so the story might go in somewhere. But I remember the first time when Jason and Cyberlo came back to talk to us after we had sent all our information up. I think Jason said to me that when he saw the amount of interest I paid in the previous year he nearly fell off his chair.

Well, I actually did.

What was it, 400 recovery from that. Yeah. Or something like 400,000 in interest gone to the wind, you know, from the, from the year before. But yeah. So to answer your question, that's basically what it is, is what, you know, you're just dispelling all of these things that you've heard. And, and once you, once you get moving on it, that's when you really start to, to see the benefits of the whole thing.

Well, we, we find too that the, like, we always appreciate counter points of view, right. If they're, if they're presented with logic and they're, they're well thought out. Like you can, you know, you can detect that there's some critical thinking and, but most often the, the noise out there around the infinite banking concept is always a function of should you put your money into participating whole life insurance versus some other asset. And this whole notion that any human being that decides to put their money into participating whole life insurance must have something wrong with them. But there's never a discussion around the 2000/5 star Google reviews that we've earned, all the client interviews on our show, the overwhelming volume of testimonials from people who are practicing this process in their life and that we, we're blessed to serve every day. Yeah, it's all a matter of you're either right or wrong for sending money into that instrument. There's no discussion around the concept. There's no discussion around there might be some super superficial like why would you want to do that? Or that that simply can't work or, and it's not that the, the, the person you know is, is a bad person or anything like that. It just demonstrates a lack of critical thinking. And that is concerning. Especially if a person has arrived in knowledge, right. They feel like they've learned everything there is to know or they've got a part of their brain that's fighting with them to say hey, there might be something here to investigate. And then what they've been indoctrinated to do financially takes over and says no, no, no, you don't want to look at a different way of controlling how you finance the things that you need throughout your lifetime. You should just continue doing what you've been doing up to this point in your lifetime. And then that works itself out in just a bunch of complete nonsense around the argument as to why they either don't buy into this process or think that it's a bad idea. There's never been A logical, factual, counter point of view presented in such a way where I would characterize it as critical thinking.

Yeah.

I've just never seen it. Never seen it.

No. And I mean there's a lot of misinformation, but there's also a lot of different types of policies. Right. So I find that it gets, often it gets blanketed into just a normal whole life policy. And yeah, you know, the first, the first thing you get is, oh, I have a whole life policy. And they told me that my funds are locked in for the first 10 years. I can't touch anything. So you don't know what you're talking about. You know, I get that quite a bit. And, and I always say, oh, that's unfortunate that you locked yourself into something that doesn't work.

Yeah, that's a really good way of addressing.

And I think, I think another, another thing that I like to touch people is it's the fact that, that it's not locked in like that. So really what that means is you're, you're not losing access to your fund. Right, right. So there, so why not do that? Right. It's basically a throughput. So if it's working, then great. You know, if it doesn't work, then, then we'll, you'll look at the options at that point. But there's no harm in learning the information, you know, sitting in on the webinars, getting everything set and putting into motion. And let's see what, let's see what happens. You don't have to start with a hundred thousand dollar policy. You can start with a, you know, five thousand dollar policy, seven thousand dollar policy, whatever the minimum is. I don't know, but I'm sure that there's a mint, there's, there's a small policy that you can start and start seeing, oh, wait, you know, wow, I'm $5,000. I'm making, you know, $8 on $5,000 at the end of the month, every single month for doing nothing like, and then compounding, now it's 5008 and then 5016. Now you're buying, you're taking your family out to dinner and you didn't have to earn that money. I mean it, there's no reason why, in my opinion, why you wouldn't just set it up and see how it goes rather than just, you know, stick to these views that you've been indoctrinated with. You know, what you, what you've learned from your parents, what you've learned from all, all around Just give it a try. And really I think this is probably easier for entrepreneurs to grasp, right? Because entrepreneurs are, you know, we're sort of risk takers as it goes and we're like, yep, that sounds great, let's try that too, let's try that. You know, simultaneously. Whereas if you're talking to somebody who's long term, rrsp, tfsa, you know, that's what they see, that's what they do, or they have some sort of match program from their, from their company. But I always tell them, yeah, those are great programs, but hopefully you don't outlive your investment. Right? That's the main thing. If I'm going to invest in a vehicle, I never want to have, I never want to have the possibility of outliving that. Right. I don't want to just run out of money. So bottom line is if you just set up a policy and you don't take advantage of it and you do have the death benefit, there is still a compounding every single month. If you need money, you can draw it from there. There's a daily compounding interest. It's going to accumulate over time. You're never going to outgrow that because it's always going to be there. So it's just a peace of mind on top of everything else. It's a, it's a huge peace of mind. So I try to dispel as much as I can with all that misinformation and maybe you're set up with the wrong policy or you're on this five year limit or, you know, there's so many things out there and that. And also in that same subject, there's a lot of people that claim that, oh, I know all about that. You know, I used to sell that. That's what I get. Battle. Oh yeah, I used to sell that. Or I know somebody who used to sell that. I'm like, yeah, I used to sell it. Okay.

It be amazed how many people in the industry have policies and know that they can access a policy. And I've never done it because I think it's only for the absolute worst case emergency under the sun, but yet they'll happily go borrow money from a third party and they've gone their whole life like that. Here's something I was curious about, Art. You talked about your wife. What do you got there?

Jason?

And your.

Can you see it?

Not really.

You can't see that. Okay, that's from Sarblo and he said haha, he should become one. So when I Because I shared with.

Him, I said, oh, really?

I said, yeah, we're interviewing Art on the show. Any thoughts on him becoming an advisor? He's wondering when you're going to tap him on the shoulder to talk about that. And Sarbu came back and he goes, he should become one.

Oh, there we go. Yeah, I got one from Sarblo, too. Right off the bat.

We'll have to get some reading material over for you for the boat, I guess, when you're on the way to the Bahamas.

Yeah, exactly.

I was really curious, Art, because you talked about your wife being more focused on the research and stuff. And so other than Nelson's book Become youm Own Banker, I'm sure that was an important piece of. That was a critical cog in your learning steps. What were some of the supplementary resources that, you know, either for yourself or. Or really for your wife, you found were really helpful in. In bringing her on board with getting started so you guys could be on the same sheet of music. What were some of the things that really added value to her journey to support you guys moving forward together? If you could share that.

Yeah, well, she. So we had the book, we. The early, probably, I would say at least a year before we even reached out to Jason at all. So she. She's really the book type. So she. She loves the feeling of, you know, having a book in her hands. And I was the. I'm the YouTube type. So although a lot of the stuff came from the US it's still 100% the exact same thing. Right. So I would get all this information, and then I would give it to her. We'd sit down and, you know, over dinner, we discuss what I've learned and what I've found on YouTube. And then she would compare it to her notes and. And the readings, and she did the workbook. She did like, you know, she. That she loves that kind of thing. So it was really more of, come on, let's go, let's get started from my side. And for her side, it was more like, pump the brakes, I'm still researching.

Yeah.

And when she. She actually reached out to Jason, all my clients and. And, you know, fellow investors, they all laugh about it because they're like, oh, yeah, of course Art gets to talk to Jason. But they had no con. They had no idea that the only reason why I was talking to Jason was because Anik, my wife, set the whole thing up. She's the one who went that. But I just took all the glory. I'm like, yeah. Oh, yeah. When you're going to buy a car, you go straight to the manager when you get it. You know, we don't, we don't wait at the teller. But in, in reality she was the one doing all that. I was just, you know, of course I'm focused on working and building the portfolio and everything else. So it was good to have her in the background, you know, fact checking and making sure that all those things are so was. It was a good combination to get things going.

But how would you, you know, how would you chalk up that whole experience, you know, given that we had an opportunity, you know, to meet and walk through a lot of great clarifying questions and then provide some time to kind of ruminate on that, develop any other insights and. But you're, yeah, you were in the background going start like what, let's go.

Like what are we waiting for?

And but how would you chalk up that experience, you know, if you were to share what that's been like, you know, working with our team, understanding and acknowledging like you work with Sarblo, you get our whole team and that's what we express to clients all the time. But how would you chalk up that experience?

So you're right. In the very beginning you could see me in the background. Okay, let's go. I'm ready to sign right now. You know, send the nurse or whatever when the nurse had to come over and all that kind of stuff got started. And of course because of that, because of the way I am and just jumping straight into it, both feet to have somebody like Sar Blo that I could just as a sounding board still, even, even to probably last week I asked him a question. I'm 24 hours a day, I'm sending cyberbull questions all the time and he's quick to reply all, you know, and he sorts everything out for me. And he's made some videos, you know, online and you know, okay, I'm gonna make you a quick video. And when he sends the video, he defaults it to either two times speed because he knows I don't have time to sit there and go through a five minute video with him. So it comes through defaulted two times speed. You know, I'm through the video in a:30 and I'm on and I'm off to the races. And so, and that has been a 24 hour day access. You know, I don't know if he ever sleeps, I'm not sure. Maybe I'll put that to a test. But, but that's been my experience. You Know, right from the beginning, just absolute support all the way through. A little bit frustrated to get start. Frustrating to get started because there is. It's like you said, you know, you can't just jump in and go, you know, everything has to be in place and wait for the nurse, wait for your results. Now we got to recalculate because your results were, you know, I was. What it was. I 52 pounds heavier at the time, so my results were different than they were. You know, when I redid my. My medical. Well, that was the other thing, too. I. I always tease people with that. I said, I got a check. I received a check for whatever it was. 13 grand or $14,000, because I lost 52 pounds. Yeah. They said, what do you mean? I said, I don't know. So saw me on the camera and said, you look like you lost a lot of weight. Let's send the nurse. The nurse redid my calculations, and I saved on my premium and got a, you know, a little bit of money back, cash back on that. They paid you to. They paid you to lose 52 pounds. So. So my advice to people is before you sign up with a policy, just try to eat as much as you can and then. And then lose it all. That's awesome.

Rich. Anything. Anything else you want to discuss with the time we've got?

No, I mean, Art, I think just so grateful to have you share your experience, your steps through the journey, the components that really resonated with you and that you're. You're so animated to even share with the people around you, your. Your discussions with your kids. I love the fact that you've got a giant whiteboard.

That's.

That's my zone. I love. I don't. I use the computer as the whiteboard now, but Jason will attest, anytime that I've ever been in his office, I'm just like, why isn't your whiteboard bigger? You know, and I'm yelling at it. And, like, we need to take a picture of this so we can erase it and start over with new ideas. I just. I really appreciate you using that as part of your. Your learning journey, because as you're going about doing that with others, you're automatically growing and enhancing your own knowledge through the. Through the effort. So the moment you're able to start to teach something to another person, it really re. Emphasizes your own learning journey. So I think that's just great. Kudos to you for. For taking that initiative and. And for.

For.

For taking the. The making the decision to get started in the process, even though it first began in a journey in 2007, you know, you start where you start, and you. You didn't wait to get started once you knew that this was the thing you were ready to do. So that's an important lesson for people.

To take, you know, and the universe unfolds exactly as it should. So in 2007, I was just a young diver, not even ready to listen to anything like this. So, you know, the years later, more mature, less hair, more gray, and I'm ready to rock.

Well, Art, it was a pleasure having you on the show. And as we often say to all of our viewers on the YouTubes, you're going to see another video that just popped up. Credit to our editing team, because we want you to continue your journey of learning. Much like we've talked about today, there's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. There's always something new to learn. And so click that next video. Continue that journey of learning. Guys, this was awesome. And Art, wishing you an incredible journey through to the Bahamas and spending time over the winter there. As you mentioned before, we started the show, and we just wish you a safe, pleasant, incredible journey. And Sarblo will be in touch to talk to you about.

Yeah, sure.

Joining the team.

Okay, that's great, guys. Thanks for your time. Thanks, guys. Have a great day. Okay, bye. All right.