Real Estate Investor Becomes Infinite Banking Coach | Jinjin Fung

I have to really, really thank real estate because I look back in my journey without real estate, I may not able to find Nelson's message. And from day one, being a real estate investor, there are a saying that you need to sleep at night, right? So you were saying about that you have to put your face on the pillow, which is really resonated with me because as a real estate investor, many people could resonate with me about this, that sometimes you just don't, you don't have a very peaceful sleep at night.

What does having a statistics degree, living on the west coast of Canada, being from China, and teaching the infinite banking concept all have in common? Well, what it has in common is our good friend Jian Jin Fung, who's with me here today as part of our advisor series. And we get to spend a little bit of quality time with Jin Jin. She has appeared on the podcast before. She's also done a number of great videos for us over on the Bankers Vault Channel. And Jingen, I'm so excited to spend time with you. I love spending time with you because not only do we have a lot of fun, we chat, but you have this just infectious kind of a bubbly, you know, air about you. And so you have a way of just raising the level of, I think, happiness in any given room or conversation that you're in. So thanks for being with me today and thanks for being a wonderful teammate advisor on the Ascendant team. And I'm just so excited to have this conversation and to share with our listeners a little bit about Jingen and what brought you into the infinite banking world. So thanks for being with us.

Oh, it's my great pleasure to be here and share my journey with everyone here.

Awesome. So let's, let's talk about that journey. Let's go back a little ways now. You've, you know, I think it'd be kind of cool if we just kind of went all the way back to the point where you joined us in Canada. At what point did that, you know, you know, let's go to that part of the journey and then let's kind of go from there into your education and then lead up into kind of how the infinite banking concept landing landed on your doorstep, as it were.

Oh, wow, that's going back to 20, 21 years, I guess. Early in 2001, I came to Canada as a international student, English as a second language student, if anyone know what abbreviation for called ESL. So I came here as an ESL student. So I did all my grade 12 education back in China. And my parents always wanted to move to the west side of the world, and I guess they did not do it themselves because they. Their. Their degrees or their whatever. Their experience back in China was not recognized. So they think, oh, maybe we'll just send our daughter there. And so. So 21 years ago, I came to Canada with two luggages, and I do not know anyone. And that is actually the first time I was outside of China.

Wow. Wow. And I'm curious, was it cold when you landed?

It was actually. Not really. It's actually. Oh, yeah, it's actually in August, so it's beautiful. I remember I looked down from my window on the airplane. I see all the mountains, and there are still some snows. Like when you go over Alaska and all the way down to B.C. it's beautiful. I have a great impression on the nature in Canada, but the airport was not very. Was not very. Was not very impressive, I would say, because I first landed in Nanaimo, B.C. in Vancouver Island. So that's where I first started my journey.

A little bit of a smaller airport and not as grand as maybe you were thinking from the airport you probably loaded yourself onto versus where you landed. That's interesting.

That's correct.

And so is that where your school journey began, was in that area as well?

Yeah, so that's where I studied. English as a second language is amazing when I just talk, talking to you, to see the gan that I get in the last 21 years. When I first came here, my English, of course, is not so good. And now I'm on a podcast and speaking English and Canadians and English. That's amazing.

It is amazing. And, you know, I remember when you first, you know, came aboard and joined us on the ascendant team, and, you know, we have. We've had maybe a number of conversations here and there about, you know, just some of the. I won't say concern, but just, you know, wanting so much, you haven't. You have such a desire to want to help people, and you just want to make sure that you're. You're always communicating effectively. So because you are so careful, you know, you have such a desire to help, you know, it's really important for you to make sure that you're always communicating as best as you can. And I think that for some people, they might look at that as a bit of a roadblock. But you've just taken on all the challenges, and you. You are doing such an amazing job of communicating Nelson's message in a way that I think he would be very proud. And so again, it's just a testament to how much you. You've grown since you've joined our organization, how much you've grown since you've been here in Canada. And I'm excited for, you know, everyone who gets a chance to spend time with Jinjin. You have a real tremendous opportunity now. Speaking of, you know, spending time or that time we were 21 years ago. And now you're going through the English as a second language and then you, you take yourself into university and you ended up getting an interesting degree. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Yes. So when I first came here, just very similar with Richard, what you just shared, very obvious. Obviously at the beginning I realized that, oh, English is not my strong suit. And, and you know, I was always very, very good with numbers growing up. So I thought, oh, maybe I'll just study something like mathematics where English is not a. A huge requirement. So that was a shortcut that I was looking into it. And in the end I ended up majoring in statistics, which is, which is a lot of fun to me. I'm really intrigued with all the numbers and patterns and all the software that you can analyze in a huge amount of data. And I also be mindful about looking for jobs. So I also had another degree in economics, so I'm thinking maybe that's a little bit closer to the business world. Always. Economics and statistics is a great combination, I would say, for my double major for my undergrads.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Very numbers focused, but also very, you know, very connected to, most commonly, I think associated really with the financial industry. When you have statistics and economics locked together, I mean, that could lead to opening lots of different doorways for you. And I'm curious, you know, once you received those degrees and you found yourself now looking at venturing into the employed realm of the Canadian marketplace, where, where did that part of the journey take you? What were the opportunities and doorways that began to open up for you because of that, those degrees that you went and achieved?

Yeah. So what I wanted to share is that my mindset was quite different from today. If I look back, I was really under that traditional past that I. I came to Canada with a dream and also carrying over my parents dream. So I have a little bit pressure. So my mindset at that time is very, very practical. So as an international student, I wanted to find a good job, get a good pay and settle in Canada, maybe buying a house, paying the mortgage and get a good pension. So that's the ladder That I was climbing. That's the goal at that time for me is really to settle in, in this country, find a job, find a place that I could earn income. Like, I wasn't thinking too much over that. So that was what I was doing. And, and yeah, I, I landed a job for doing data analysis in a local small company in Victoria, bc. I studied a year and I applied for skilled worker immigration because I have some experience in, in working, I guess. And then I furthered my education at ubc. So I did optimization master program for a very short period of time and I worked further in that field for healthcare. So that was my journey in terms of finding a job.

Interesting. And it's, it's good that you mentioned that because I think again, you know, Canada is such a multi varied, multicultural nation. We have tons of immigration and really the country was built on the amazing immigrants that have come here. And I would imagine that that pressure, a little bit of that pressure and that thought process for many people who have sent their children, you know, across, across an ocean to come and be here in Canada and they, you know, put some of that, that pressure, those hopes and dreams on them to have a certain type of life or lifestyle that maybe either wasn't available to them or they're all, you know, as parents, we're always looking for something grander and better for our children. And so I think a lot of people will resonate with the experience that you had and the message that you're sharing and coincidentally that you identified mindset. And we talk a lot about mindset on this podcast, on a lot of our other content, how important it is that our, we're always thinking about our thinking. And you know, I remember before I met Nelson Nash, I don't think I ever really realized that you could think about your thinking. You know, I just figured that if you're thinking, you're just thinking and you're onto the next thing, you're never really taking a moment to pause and reflect back and say, oh, what was it that I was thinking about? And, and if I check in and was I taking myself in the direction that I wanted to go or was I maybe going a direction I didn't want to go? So it's really cool that you're identifying that, that, that traditional corporate ladder kind of path is what your vision was. Was that. So at what point do you think in your journey did you find a difference? When, at what point did you, did you feel that, that that direction wasn't really what you wanted and you Were looking for something more. I'm curious if there's a. A moment or a period of time that you can pinpoint in your life when that happened.

Yes, I actually look back in and I actually think about that a lot. I would really say that when I become a mother and that really drill in into my why. Because I come from a Chinese background. So I think my family always, even though we don't understand family banking, but we have the sense of a family energy. Because I came here for my why is also to take care of my parents because they sacrifice a lot to send me abroad to study abroad. As, as some of you, some of the audience may know, as an international student, your tuition is three times of the local university students. So I'm paying an arm and leg for my tuition fees and all my homestay fees and all this cost with the university degree. By the way, if you, if you calculate that cost on getting that university degree, I wouldn't do it again if I have a choice. The amount of the, the. The amount of cost expenses associated with that and with the return, it was not a very good investment. But. But again, my point is that my, my family, my parents at that time, because I'm the only child, I'm the only child by design, because I was born in that era that only one child is allowed in a family. So I guess I have the privilege. But also I have the pressure being a single child and being sent abroad to Canada with all their savings. So I have this why that they kind of lifting up for this level for my education, for me to pursue my dream. I really wanted to take care of them when they retire. I have a sense that I wanted to provide for my parents in their later years. And until this dream become a reality when I become a mother, like I was doing fine with my husband, he also have a government job. We actually doing very similar job in two different health authorities here in Lower Mainland. But you know, money comes in, money goes out. When I have a children, when I have that diaper expenses, when I have that daycare expenses, money's not staying. I don't know what I'm doing would make a difference. I do not know if I can take care of my parents that I always dream of. And I do not know if I can provide for my own children the amount of support that my parents provided for me. That is the biggest aha moment or wake up moment for me when I was on med leave.

Wow. Yeah. You had some time to think about it in between the diaper changing because that was, that's pretty, pretty frequent. And that's interesting to hear that reflection. And again, a lot of relevance to the, how you're, you know, the, the mindset of your parents, you know, really pouring in and really investing in you as, as the, the, the thing that their energy and their, and their capital went into and then wanting to be able to reciprocate that. And I think that's also common for, for, again, for most parents, even most children, they want to reciprocate to the degree that they can and what their parents have done for them. And so now being that you've, you've, you, you're a mother, you have your first, your firstborn, and I, you have two children. So this, this idea, this mindset shift that's happening in you, where did it take you? How did it, you know, how did that now manifest into a way that you were starting to, to figure out how to take back more control of your financial life? Where did that, that part of the journey begin for you?

Yeah, so that's when I start to real thinking. Right before I was just doing what everybody is doing. Now I realize that, you know, I cannot do what everybody is doing. And I start looking for financial freedom. What is a way to build wealth? What is the most effective way to manage your finances, Manage your money? Because apparently what everyone, everyone else is doing is not doing the right thing. So I started to. At that time, there's not many podcasts, so, so coincidentally, I was, I was a landlord. Not by design. So I owned a condo. And when I got married with my husband, that condo become our rental property. I by default become a landlord. And when we are buying our first property together as a family, when we're getting married, I started to look into different ways to pay for that mortgage. And even at that time, we have friends or we have friends and relatives around us saying that, oh, don't get a tenant because tenant equals headache. Or, you know, that's just a lot of work to become a tenant. But with that renovation of the condo and renovation of the property that we did, I started to watch shows on HGTV for income properties. And then soon I become a. How do you say that? I, I start to understand about cash flow from that show. So I understand at that time, I haven't read Robert Kiyosaki's book, reached that point at. But I kind of figured out there's a good debt, there is a bad debt, there's passive income, there's money at work, there's people at work. Right. So, so my mindset start to shift and, and then with the success of being a landlord, so we rented all the basement. So basically the basement tenant is paying our mortgage. And that is a great feeling because I was looking for different ways to build wealth and that inspired me. And I start to look for every possible real estate books that I find, local real estate clubs, all the real estate coachings that I can spend. I know Richard, you shared in your podcast how much money you spend on real estate coaching. I'm, I'm pretty close to you. So I was in many multiple different clubs and, and, and my mindset just take off from there.

And so you know, the, the, the shift to the real estate investor by accident became real estate investor by default. And you obviously expanded that because you, you realized that the, the possibilities, potential was there. So as you, you go further and further down that you realized in order to expand that or, or do it in an effective way, you also needed coaching. So you chose to actively go for real estate coaches and get yourself involved in membership. Where you said membership clubs and that sort of thing. Well, that's being in fellowship with other people who are trying and to achieve and learn the same types of co content and, and, and goals. And when you immerse yourself in an environment like that, you learn by. From so many different people. It's interesting that you identify that because I'm sure many of our listeners have been a part of real estate investment clubs or groups in the past. I know I certainly have. And the same mindset of those organizations is, is what really we're trying to craft here with our community. So again, as we think about our infinite banking community, as you spend more and more time with people that are embracing Nelson's message, Nelson's mindset, his concept, they are taking policy loans and repaying them, finding opportunities, eliminating third party debt, taking control back, just having that, that peace of mind feeling that when you put your head down on your pillow and you wake up the next day, there's more cash value in your cash value bucket than was there the night before. So I just, I'm really glad that you identified how as part of your, the natural course of your journey to delve into the financial freedom zone, it led you to real estate, but also not just real estate, it also led you to communities. And in those communities, I, I'm, I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I'm suspecting that that access to those communities is also what created a bridge for you to Learn about Nelson's message. Is that true?

That's right. I have to really, really thank real estate because I look back in my journey without real estate, I may not able to find Nelson's message. And from day one, being a real estate investor, there are a saying that you need to sleep at night. You are saying about that you have to put your face on the pillow. Which is really resonated with me because as a real estate investor, many people could resonate with me about this that sometimes you just don't have a very peaceful sleep at night. I remember going into all those real estates and my father in law, he obvious has been in Canada for a long time and he still always like to remind me of the 1980s, which really resonated with me when I finally find Nelson's book. So he will always warn us saying that you have to remember right now interest rate is 4%, 3%. You have to remember there is a time that interest rate is 23%, 22%. So he will remind us those story that of course we were just infants at that time. We have never experienced that in our own life. And that is a question that I like to ask my coaches or in my club. What if interest rates goes up? Because we all know that real estate is about leverage and leverage is a double sided sword, right. If, if leverage goes to the other way, what do you do? Right. So I do ask that question and I often do not get an answer to that question. So even though I was still investing in real estate, I'm very cautious about my debt service ratio because I'm conscious with that. And that's not something that I feel peaceful about.

Right. Yes, interesting. And, and you know, you know you and I did a recording on a topic relative to one of your investments that you sold here in the last year, actually a property in Chilliwack where I currently reside. And that property as I recall did very well for you in about a five year time frame of ownership. And you were able to exit that and harvest your profits and then make decisions rebalancing your portfolio of real estate. And I think about again the current environment that we're in as the time of recording this, where we have been experiencing rising interest rates and we have again other content that speaks to that to some degree, but that concern about having peaceful mindset, being able to be of not having sleepless nights around your investment portfolio, in this case real estate. And there's many things in real estate, the interest rate being one of them, but also just in General tenant problems. I mean, when we talked about that property in Chilliwack, you did have a few phone calls in relation to that property, as I recall, that weren't particularly pleasant. So those are, those are things that create stressful moments in the, in the environment that we're, we're being told and we're being promoted in a lot of the real estate programs that are out there, that real estate is very passive. Well, it can be passive, but it's probably not passive all the time, you know, and I think that's something that people need to be aware of. And I know you and I have spoke outside of recordings like this about some of our real estate experiences. Now, where was the point that Nelson's book came into your life? I'm curious if you can bring us up to that stage of the game. Now you've been actively engaged in real estate and investment in the community and learning about your, you know, developing your skills, honing your craft, trying to find better deals and properties and that sort of thing. Where, when. What was the catalyst that brought Nelson's book into your life?

Can I elaborate on that? Do we have time? So I think the turning point is in 2018. So there are three events happened in the year 2018 other than there's an interest increase as well during that year. In 2018, I got a surprise. I had my third child. So that gets me thinking. And also on that year, I know some fellow real estate investors went under the water just because there's interest rate increase and because their deals is like a domino effect. When one JV partner situation did not go very well, went south, and then you need to have access to capital to pay out for that JV partner. Then one after one or another, you know, there are situations coming in and it's not pretty. And I'm in that situation with my friend. I, you know, I see the pain. I see how fragile my real estate portfolio could be. That's the second awakening. Now the third thing is one of my high school friends passed away unexpectedly from just all in a sudden he passed from, I think some brain tumor or not, not something, forgot the name, but he just passed away at a very, very young age. And he did not have any life insurance. So that put in, he doesn't have a will in place, he does not have any life insurance in place that put his wife and his two young children in a very, very difficult financial situation. So I, so, so there's three things happening and make me to realize it's not about how much I make. It's not about how much I build for the real estate portfolio. It's about how much you can keep, how much you can pass it down to the next generation. It's about how much peace you can have. So that's another awakening call. Before that I'm all about expanding, expanding, build, build, but with very cautious. I've already realized there are things I need to be cautious of. But 2018 is a time that I want to sit down. I need to have a proper look at my own portfolio. I'm too heavily invested in real estate. I need to build up other foundations. And I start to interview life insurance agents because I need to put more life insurance on myself. And I interviewed a couple life insurance agents. Their answer does not speak in my heart. I just knew there's something out there now because I do real estate investing. Maybe even before that. I'm never very interested in putting money in RRSP or any government fund. At that time my mindset was I do not want to invest in something that I have to wait for 20, 30 years to wait for someday one day to get that. And what if I'm more prosperous when I retire and that's what I'm going for right? Then my tax would be tax rate will be even higher. And I never wanted to do resp because I was like maybe I'll just buy each, each child a house, a rental property that might do better than the 70$200 total government grant I could ever receive on the most side. Right. So my mindset was already not there. And a lot of the agents that I talked to, they also, they also wanted to suggest some, some of avenues in those registered funds which I would say were not in the same mindset. So. So I put powers in my own hand because at that time I'm just a stay home mom with three young children. So I have all this time I never stop learning. I'm always listening to podcasts although it's unfortunately I did not find out well without Bay street podcast at that time. But. But my podcast is mostly real estate related and financial news and all that. So I started to shift, I started to learn more about whole life insurance. Life insurance. I knew there's something with whole life insurance that all the ultra wealth people, wealthy people are using. And being a real estate investor, I also follow Grant Cardone because that was one of the revenue I'm going into. Because you know you can only buy so many single family houses on the residential side, eventually you have to look into multifamily or commercial real estate. And Grant Cardone must be doing super, super good in that. And one of his interview, he said look at this building behind me. It's the best asset ever. And then he said one thing that rings a bell to me as well. He said I'm going to flip this or basically he's doing a lot of asset management. He said I'm going to do this and flip this into the life insurance company. They own the best asset ever. So something along that line that's quoted from Grant Cardone and make me like there's really something about the life insurance company that I have a blind spot about. There's something about life insurance company that I just have a prejudice about that I need to find out more. So that started my journey to search and one of my friends, she's also agent, I asked her a lot of question. I guess she cannot answer or she just did not answer me. So she said, hey, you are so curious. You're so like into researching things. Why don't you just get a license yourself? And I thought maybe I will find the answers in those licensing books, in the whole life insurance licensing book. So of course I read all those books and I just took the exam but I did not find my answer there either.

There's. There's some really awesome things that you just identified there. Jenjin is first off that you had three young kids at home and then you thought you had so much time on your hands. So I thought that was pretty interesting because I, I don't know too many, you know, stay at home parents who have three kids at home that have too much time on their hands. But I love that you, you develop delved into your education more and what's really, I think an important piece that our listeners should take away is the drive of your curiosity. So I always encourage that people should be like Curious George and develop that mindset of always, you know, being curious. That's you know, really what helps us discover the most amount of things that we can on the in the world. And so it's that innate desire to want to answer those questions that you know, you know, pestering people for the answer that you said, look, I'm just going to go do it myself based on a recommendation from a friend. And I think it's really key that you identified. Okay, you went and took the courses to go get licensed but you still didn't get your questions answered. Now before we move on, I'd like to speak to that a little bit and just, and just Maybe have you expand for our listeners. So you, you've now gone and you've signed up to take the. It's referred to as the LLQP program or the life licensing program. And I think at the time that you would have done it, it was. It's done in like three phases. Is that right? You have like three exams, I think you. That you write.

Yeah, four exams. Yeah.

Right. And as you were going through that program, you were still trying to figure out and get answers to your questions. And so when you got the section on permanent life insurance and whole life insurance, how did you feel after you went through the material?

It did not answer my question. It was very, very basic and very, very mainstream, especially whole life insurance. Just one book. There's book about segregated fund. There's book about dental and sickness, which is a great book, I would say. Yeah, I do not recall everything, but I remember at that time in that book there are things like, I just have a highlight, I have a question mark and I have a haha next to it. I was like, okay, the mindset of these people writing this book, I knew something that they don't know or, or there are something that they just. I don't know. How do I, how do I. Commenting on that, I just, yeah, that book is full of those marks. I was like, what, for example, your biggest asset is your primary residence, right? What is your asset? Your, your prime residence, your cars? I was like, no, no, those are not your assets. Things like that, right? When they, they teach you how to analyze your finances and things like that.

Well, I think it's important that you share that because again, we often are asked by clients or people who, maybe they comment on one of our videos or on a podcast episode, why haven't I heard of this before? Or, or why isn't everyone doing this? Well, the industry that the insurance realm is built around is, is, is part of the larger machine. And that machine is trying to push every Canadian person down the path of go and do business with your bank and go get mutual funds and do RSPs and TFSAs and, and go do all of these things that the world wants you to do and basically don't think for yourself to some degree. And I, I'm being, you know, I'm being a little bit. I'm throwing a blanket on everything. I don't want to throw. I'm not trying to throw the industry under the bus or whatever, but, but ultimately, you know, as a listener, you've probably recognized that that's happened to you. Throughout some phase of your life. And so what you've identified, Jingen, is that there was some moments, some key moments and critical moments in your life and through your education where you had some epiphanies along the way that this can't be all there is, there must be more, there must be something more. And you knew intuitively that especially when it came to this insurance vehicle, there must be something here. If the insurance companies are buying these buildings at Grant Garden, is flipping because they're such good quality assets, well, then what are they doing with all that money? Right? So your curiosity led you down the path of trying to find again these answers, but the books and the materials that you thought would give you the answers just didn't give you the answers. And they were written by the industry that you needed to go get licensed in so that you could go do the thing that you do now. So it's very odd, you know, to have that experience, but your experience is no different than mine. And many and all of the members of our advisory team would share the same thing. So even when someone comes to us and they say, hey, you know, we'd like to come aboard or join the organization, we just basically tell them, yeah, absolutely, you have to go and, you know, get this, this, this licensing program done. By the way, there's nothing in that license program material that will teach you anything about Nelson's concept of infinite banking. In fact, it probably will teach you very little to nothing about whole life insurance. Often when we have meetings with our clients, you know, after the first or second meeting, you know, typically by the time that they've met, they, they meet us, they've already watched some video content or listened to a number of the pot. You know, we have some people say that they've been binge listened to all of our podcasts and by the time that we have that initial consult or the first two meetings with them, they know more about the whole life insurance vehicle and the machine than most people in the country. In fact, most many people that are even licensed. So it is kind of interesting how the education is, I don't know if I want to say skewed, but it seems to be gapped at least when it comes to even getting licensed to be able to operate in this industry. And so I think you identifying that is helpful for our listeners because sometimes we might think, oh, well, I'll just go and see, you know, John or Sally or Mary, insurance person, and I'll get that, I'll just ask them for a whole life insurance but it really isn't, isn't that simple. Can I share a quick story with you?

Yes, please.

I had a conversation actually. I was in Vancouver. Well, actually this morning I just drove back. This morning I had a strategic coach event that I went and attended. And on the way there I was having a chat with a client of mine and he works for an oil and gas company and he had recently referred an individual to me and he said, hey, Richard, you know, you got to reach out to this guy because, you know, I've been talking around the water cooler about infinite banking and family banking and, and you know, this guy's really interested in fact him and his wife, his wife is as a lawyer he identified. They've already gone and contacted their local advisor with XYZ company who, there's three letters to the, to that company and they, they said, oh yeah, we can absolutely help you get a, get a whole life plan, but you know, are you sure you want to do that? And you know, wouldn't you rather do something else? And so they're, the client already knows kind of what they want and they're trying to now convince the advisor or this, this licensed person to get what they want. And so it's just kind of like you have this weird dichotomy of you know what you want and you've been doing some education and then the person that's there you're hoping is going to serve you, isn't able to, and they're trying to convince you to do something else. So you just want to really make sure that you're doing that gut check to understand if this is something that you want to do. Make sure that you're working with someone who has similar values to you, has similar mindset, and they're clearly involved in that process themselves. I mean, if, if an advisor doesn't own a whole life insurance policy and has never taken a policy loan and paid it back, probability is they don't know anything about infinite banking and they probably shouldn't be helping you is what I'm getting at.

I love it, Richard. And in fact, that's how I find out that the initial company that I signed up for, they don't understand infinite banking concept. It took me a while to find, figure that out because sometimes people don't say what they don't know. They think they know everything already. The question I asked is, indeed, I said that how many clients of yours take out a policy loan? The answer is almost nothing. Like 90% will not take out a policy loan. Why would they is 6 something percent where the dividend scale rate is only 5%. You know that question we often get from clients and you know that's not the right answer but that's coming from the coaches that I'm going to have. And I know exactly that's not what I'm looking for. And that's how I started my journey of finding the book becoming your own banker by Aron Nelson Nash. And I wish I find this book earlier in my journey. I read every book about infinite banking concept but none of the books cited that they will say this book is inspired by Nelson's infinite banking concept of becoming your own banker book. I did not get that right. So I read many books to lead me to infinite banking concept.

That's interesting that you, you read, you read a whole bunch of books but that wasn't, it wasn't clear or maybe credit wasn't given where credit was due that Nelson was the inspiration for those books. And so it's important. Again, thank you for sharing that too because your journey didn't start with becoming your own banker. It started really circling around it from many directions and then it finally brought you full circle to where the book landed in your, in your hands. And so I'm curious, you know, if our listeners, if there's anyone who's, who's been tuned into this that's also had a similar experience as they're looking at discovering the concept because that is that path actually isn't. I don't think it's that common. That's not usually what I hear from people. So the fact that you were so committed to your learning and the journey that it eventually brought you there is is quite phenomenal.

Oh, thank you so much. I have to say when I find Nelson's book is like the calling that I always had is a book that I've been always looking for. Think about all the real estate books that I have in the home that I read the podcast I listen about real estate. This is a piece that I was missing. This is the blind spot that was looking for and, and I was just almost burst into tear when I finally find it. I have to share how I find it because I was searching on this revenue of, of finding the book or finding the infinite banking concept, finding a right coach. On the other hand, on the other hand I'm still listening to all my real estate podcasts. So one of the podcasts was interviewed Jason Low talking about being infinite banking concept for real estate investors. It did not ring the bell at that Time when I was listening, I wasn't sure this is talking about the same thing, but I still vividly remember at the very end, Jason mentioned that you need a good coach. And that really resonated with me because I'm not bragging, but the difference sometimes, I would say between me and some of my fellow real estate investors, the difference is because I always invest in myself, I always invest in a coach. Like, we all know, any mistake in real estate is very costly, and some of the time you cannot go back. So I really appreciate the coachings that I received. Even though there's a lot of money to spend into coaching, I see the value of having a coach in your life in any area. And the night when I was really looking for someone who can lead me into this journey, can teach me how to do infinite banking, I was really praying for a coach. And. And that interview with that Jason did with the real estate podcast just jumped into my mind. And. And that's how I listened to that podcast two times in a row. And I put down the name of Jason Lowe and Infinite Banking Concept or Nelson Nash together, like IBC or Cash Flow Banking. I find Nelson Nash Institute Institute. And that's how my journey started. And never take back. I still remember that. October 31, 2020, in two years, I finally find IBC.

Wow. Yeah. So two years of reading and, and learning and seeking and hunting, and then through almost accidental means, the thing that you were looking for shows up. Now, was it really accidental? Some would say not, no. And I think that that's very cool. And so, you know, after hearing that interview with Jason, and I know exactly the interview that you're talking about, you. You went to the Nelson Ash Institute, so you tried. You probably reached out to them and see about signing up for the practitioner program. And is that how you came back towards, you know, connecting with Jason, or did you reach out to Jason directly? How exactly did you, you know, find yourself playing a part of the Ascendant family?

Oh, is. Is such a. I will never forget the story how I get into the ascendant financial team. So I find out, Jason, because I'm looking for someone in Canada, can practice this and also find Nelson Nash Institute. So I was signing up for my practitioner program because I was so eager to learn the right way to practice. Becoming your own banker. Now, at the same time, I'm also asking Nelson Nash Institute, I said, who practices best in Canada? And David Stern said, you got the right man. Because I said, I find it partial. The reason I find out about Nelson Nash Institute is because Jason and they also said you are in great hand if you get coached by Ascendant Financial. And I was trying to get an interview with Nelson Nash Institution and with Jason Lowe. Like I have to wait two weeks to get into a 15 minutes window to talk to talk to him. And I also have to wait patiently for a couple months to get, to wait for my turn to have a position in the mentoring mentorship.

Yes. Well, your, your patience and your persistence I think is paid off because you've had a really epic mentorship and you've been, you've, you just dug in with both feet. And now, I mean, day in and day out, you're able to connect and meet with people, to share this process with them in an exceptionally, you know, engaging way, in a way that I think adds just a tremendous amount of value. And it's so amazing to have you on, on the team. And it's so interesting because organizationally we have people from all over the country and, but we also have people from such varied backgrounds. And so you sharing a little bit about your background today I think is really helpful because being someone who's immigrated from another country, much like our, our friend Roman, Roman also immigrated from another country and the, and as well as so did Sarblo. So we have a large contingent of our advisory team that really, they, they aren't born in Canada. And I think that's interesting because there's a certain perspective that you bring an awareness about what life is like outside of the walls of Canada. And that perspective is something that you get to uniquely share with the, the people that you serve. And I think it brings a ton of value and it should never be discounted because the experiences that we go on the road of life build us up in certain ways. They create stories and they create an ability for us to empathically share certain aspects that we've, we've experienced in our life. And also we can draw from the stories and the history of our, our culture and our family members. And so for you guys that aren't, weren't born in Canada, you have such a unique level of stories, a breadth of stories that you can bring into the conversations to share with your clients. I think it's really fantastic. So, man, this is just so wonderful. Jingen to hear the full and I've heard the snippets of this journey, I've never really heard it all compiled together. And there's some key takeaways that I want our listeners to really connect with. And that's that's that you, you recognize through moments in time that you, you, there was something that needed to shift or change in your life. And although you were on a path, you realize that, that, that the path all of a sudden imagine a fork in the road is there and there's, there's one path where maybe you can see the whole path and the other path is all sudden covered with overgrowth of, of weeds and, and extra trees. And you're, you're consciously making the choice to say, well, I don't really know what's down that path, but I want to go down it. I'm going to take my, you know, my, my chainsaw, my machete, and I'm going to go hacking and slashing so I can uncover that path and take a bit of the hard road to create the life that you want. And so I think that's something that really should be respected. But also it's something that we all need to consider doing from time to time because, you know, I don't think anything grand and, and glorious was built by taking the easy path.

That's right. If you choose an easy path, then life is difficult. If you choose a difficult path, life may be easier.

Yes, very well said. Now what are, you know, thinking about your, your mentorship now with Ascendant and, and being in the position that you are with the organization now, being able to help and, and coach and meet with people. What. Was there anything that you'd like to share about that journey or about the going through the process of being mentored and really experiencing, connecting with clients at the, you know, to such a degree as you have since you've been part of the organization, what comes up for.

You when you think about, I would say the why, why I become a practitioner is because it took me so long to finally find out the message. And I was almost mad because people around me, nobody knows about this, right? If I look at my circle around me, nobody really knows about this. And this to me is a truth about money. I, I'm a Christian. For me to become a Christian took me almost 10 years in my journey. So I really have to rethink my thinking and have the paradigm shift of whatever I believed back in China was not true or not right? So that's a huge shift for me. And I, I resonate that similar with finding the infinite banking concept. I would say that's a truth about money. Similar like, I think that's a truth of life being a Christian. But yeah, so for me is really about sharing this Message because people need to know this will change your life. And what, when you know what you've told is not true. When do you want to do anything about it? What? Do anything right away. And you know, when I was, when I was a real estate investor, I have friends and family comes to me and see, can you teach me how to do real estate? Like there are people that I know that I need to help them but I know that everybody's, everybody's mindset is different. Everybody have different risk levels that they can take. Not everybody can do real estate investing. Everybody's situation is different. So how can I help people? And now I know how I can help you. You don't have to be a real estate investor. You don't have to be super rich. You don't have to be a ultra wealthy business owner. You can do this. This is exactly what Nelson's message is. You just become you. And life could be so much better when you can control the banking function because everything, every business, every single transaction, every spending in our life needs banking. That's a, you know, we all need our own way of making our money make a living. But you should also own the banking business. That's just make life so much more efficient.

Yeah. You have to be in two businesses. The one in which you earn your living and the business of banking. Of the two, banking is the most important I believe is how Nelson puts it in the book. Such a powerful statement. Thank you for sharing that Jingen. Now I have one really core thing that's still remaining that I'd like to ask you and I think about your journey that you've shared with us today and going from the, the statistician world to you know, with a, with an economics background to now a, a coach, a mentoring other people about this process. I'm curious, who would you say you most want to be a hero to?

The people that I served. I'm serving and to be served. I, I wanted to be the messenger to Nelson's message to change their financial lives.

Yeah, I love it. That's so fantastic. Now before we, we end our, our show today, there's one last thing I want to mention and just to give, plant a seed for people, give them a little bit of excitement. You know Jen, Jen, you've been working diligently on a special project and it's something I'm pretty excited about. I know you're excited about and it has to do with Nelson's book. Would you, would you take a moment and just share with our listeners what Exactly. That project is that you've been up to.

So when I first read this book, although I'm so excited, I read this book very slow because English is not my first language. And Nelson, this book is very profound. So when I was reading this book, and many people say this book is only 90 pages long, you just take you four and a half hours, you can read it. Yes. When you're a native speaker. Yes. I think you can read it very quickly. For one, one read it did not. It's not the same for me. So I have this book translated word to word into Chinese. So I have it in my Chinese and traditional Chinese, and that's a project that I'm taking on.

Wow. Unbelievable. It's going to be phenomenal when we're able to have that released and so many more people that have experienced the challenge, as you said, English as a second language will be able to bypass that challenge and learn Nelson's message. And that really adds amplification to the amount of people that we can help and the amount of people that can experience the. The freedom and the peace of mind that comes from becoming your own banker. Thank you for taking on that amazing challenge, Jinjin, for being inspired to do it, for the amount of people that will be helped and blessed because you've done that hard work, and I'm sure Nelson would be exceptionally proud. I'm very proud of what you've done. I'm very proud to have you on the team, and I'm so excited to share your journey with our listeners. Thanks so much for being on the Wealth Without Bay street podcast today.

It's my pleasure. Thank you so much, Richard.

Thank you.