Why Infinite Banking Means True Financial Freedom

I beat my head against the wall too. I probably did 30 hour seminars, to be honest, in some cases. But you love helping people. You just want to see people get it and so you're willing to do whatever you can. One of the reasons why, you know, wanting to work with Ascendant is you guys have figured out ways to be more efficient for our clients as well as us so that we can reach more people. And that's really, I think, the heart of why we wanted to team.

A whole decade teaching the infinite banking concept. What have we learned and where are we going from here? Well, I'm joined today by a newcomer to the podcast, which is Mr. Kurt Barry. Kurt, I'm excited to join you here. Have you with us on the show. Now, I've, I met you at a number of think tanks ago. We've, we've crossed paths at a lot of these events at the Nelson Nash Institute. And of course, more recently, I'm getting a chance to get to know you a lot better because you're embracing our American side of the company here with Ascended Financial, which is fantastic. Leading the charge and helping a lot of people implement this from our perspective. And I'm just so excited about having you on the program to talk a little bit about your journey and also about some of the things that have happened recently. At the time of this recording, we're one week away from our most recent 2025 annual think tank conference. So we'll probably have a few things we can piggyback on there from a discussion standpoint. But let's rewind the tape a little bit. Kurt, I want to go back to you, your gateway drug, your entry point to this idea of the infinite banking concept. So why don't you start off at the beginning and let us know how this showed up in your life specifically.

Yeah, I've been, I've been in the financial world for a little over 23 years and just needed, I wanted to be able to help people. That was my mission from day one. And that's not how the industry is designed. It's designed to make lots of money. In fact, I was challenged in my first job that why did I get in the business? I got in the business, I told my boss I wanted to help people. And he said, then you need to resign, because that's not why you should be here. And I was like, wow, okay. So it's been, it's been a journey, but I would say, you know, getting into things, working in the financial industry primarily at the beginning, not knowing anything about life insurance. I was a buyer, buy, term invest the difference kind of guy. That's how I learned things early on. I was teaching people that at 16 years old and it's been a big journey. Got exposed to whole life through the, through the years, but just as a death benefit and got exposed to a number of different iul vul all those different things that go along the way. But I think my biggest struggle was that I was helping people but I wasn't seeing transformation in people's lives. And that was really what I wanted to be a part of. And as I started asking questions why am we not making a big impact in people's lives? That, that's how I came across the infinite banking concept. And it was, I was actually introduced to it under another name which we won't mention on here, but I was exposed to it there and I knew enough to be intrigued, but not. I didn't understand what was happening. I didn't understand the problem. And I actually helped a couple clients buy a policy and I did, but I didn't understand what I was doing. I certainly couldn't explain what was happening and I kind of lost interest just because I wasn't understanding the real issue. And then it was about maybe two or three years later that I, I came across actually got had Nelson's book, but I didn't read it. There's lost opportunity right there. But I finally read it. I read some other people's books and let's just say I'm a slow learner. So it took me a while to read it and say there's something here that's fascinating but I just can't wrap my finger around it. I just can't, I can't understand it. And it just took me a while to figure out that there's a problem and that there's a solution to the problem. But I couldn't figure out what the problem was. And once I finally figured it out, then it started to make sense. And from that point on we've started to move forward and, and begin talking to people about, you know, how this process works.

So yeah, amazing. So you know, a pretty long standing history actually in the financial realm and, and you've been exposed to, as you indicated, all the different, you know, hot sales type topics and the, the next best, greatest product that the insurance company releases this year and, and that type of activity. And you know, I appreciate how you mentioned that even though you might have had Nelson's book and taking, you know, two years before you actually had a Chance to go through it, that lost opportunity cost. And I resonate with that because I think about my own timeframe. Nelson's book was the first thing for me, but then I didn't really crack. I didn't look at the book the way I should have been for two years. Even though it was the thing that helped me get going. I, for some reason in my mind, had it in my own brain that this book was too complicated for everyone else. And you know, that I'm short changing that a little bit just to put into perspective. And so, you know, when Jason and I got started in the path of trying to educate the general public about this, at least in Canada, we didn't know what we didn't know. And we weren't leveraging Nelson's book. And the reality of that is, and we were still helping people, but we weren't making a real impact, we weren't making a dent. And we were going through these constant, you know, return to basics kind of conversations and we would have four, five, six meetings with someone to get them to do something, to move forward. And we realized, you know, at the end of it, effectively we were doing the equivalent of a ten hour seminar with everybody, but we were doing on a one on one basis. And so it wasn't until I attended my very first think tank, Kurt, that I realized and Jason and I, we immediately connect with someone. It was the first evening. Nelson's seminar was a Friday evening and all day Saturday it was, it was the Friday evening meeting Nelson for the first time, probably by the time we got to the first break and Jason and I looked at each other, says, I know what we've been doing wrong. We haven't been selling this book. And the moment we came home, we retooled everything. We put all of our focus and our effort on getting the book into people's hands. And man, oh man, did that ever start to make a difference.

I would say I'm right there with you in that I am a teacher by nature, not a coach. And, and there is a difference. A teacher, like you just said, I've spent many, many years investing in clients because I want to make sure that they get it. And I've created hundreds of PowerPoints and stories and pictures so that I could explain things in further detail for people. But it was always me explaining concepts, not just pointing them to the book and that, and that's been a, to be honest, it's been a recent, probably in the last couple year eye opening us as well to say, you just have to get people to the book and let the book do its job. I'm, I've beat my head against wall too. I probably did 30 hour seminars, to be honest, in some cases. But, but, you know, you love helping people and you want to, you just want to see people get it and so you're willing to do whatever you can. But I, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, wanting to work with Ascendant is you guys have figured out ways to be more efficient for the, for our clients as well as us so that we can reach more people. And that's really, I think, the heart of. He wanted to team up.

So, yeah, the impact of reaching more people is very important and I appreciate you sharing that. And you know, one thing I like saying is that I might be slow, but I'm worth waiting for. And so you might resonate with that a little bit. Kurt, you know, thinking back to your first experience coming, you know, becoming part of the Nelson Nash Institute and, and embracing starting to attend some of the events like the annual think tank conference, maybe take us back to where that started, to enter the foray for yourself after reading the book, after it sat on the shelf for two years and, and pick, pick us up from there. And when did you finally get intersected with the Nelson Nash Institute?

Yeah, it's after I read the book. I, I, you know, it's hard to even think back that far. I know I read the book and was trying to just get connected and get some exposure. I was really kind of looking for a mentor. Came across the Nelson Nash Institute and got into the certification program, met with Car Robert and, and, you know, Nelson and David and went through the program, got certified and, and they were encouraging you should go attend a think tank. I didn't know what that was. So my first, my first think tank was the 2019 think tank, which was the year that we, you guys put on the movie. You know, the movie, then this, the film for this is Nelson Nash. And so I got to experience that. That's the only time I ever met Nelson. So I got a picture with Nelson and then sadly he passed, you know, a month later. But yeah, that was really my first exposure to it. And it was just, I was impacted, I guess, by just the quality of people that were there, just the people that had hearts of servitude. They were wanting to help people learn this. And everybody had their own style and their own way of doing things, which was kind of cool to see as well. And then just the breakout sessions and just Hearing people that were way more advanced than I was and understanding and learning and just getting a chance to be exposed to that and enhance my abilities so that I could. That I could, you know, help clients understand faster.

Really the idea, yeah, fantastic. So great opportunity to meet with folks and very common experience I think that people have. I was recording earlier with Mary Jo, actually, and we were sharing about our experience at the most recent think tank and plus, of course, that's how her and I met originally. And there's so many amazing people in this industry that do truly love to serve and. And they're all coming about at this, at different vantage points in life. But one common element that connects us all is. Is a love and of Nelson and. And supporting his legacy and his message to more and more people. Now, you were blessed against to get that chance to meet Nelson. You got that picture, which is amazing. I love to hear that. Watching the documentary film at that. That session and having it unveiled in the theater there, it was a very powerful experience. I know for me, and I'm curious to get your take on. It's not something we've ever talked about before, Kurt, but seeing that film for the first time, being able to do it in a room where Nelson was there with his family, what kind of came up for you going through that experience again?

I was still. I'm still fairly new to all the understanding and just. I don't know that I understood at the moment really the ramifications of that. This was the. I mean, I'm here, I'm seeing, sitting. Seeing me, meeting Nelson, getting to see him, watching a film about him, and then a month later, he's not here anymore and didn't understand the ramifications of that opportunity, but just the. The film. I think I've watched the film probably eight or nine times since then, and every time it's just a good reminder of who he was, his character, his. His humor. And, you know, he's got some. Some funny stories in there and anyway, yeah, it's just. It's really. You can see his passion for making a difference in the people's lives and the legacy that he's left. I think it's just a great film to watch. I try to watch it at least once a year just to keep. Keep it fresh in my mind. And we refer, you know, prospects to say, you know, something you should check out.

So nice, you know, and in the experience that you've had with it and watching again, repeatedly, again, I like yourself. I've done the same thing. I'M curious, you know, as you're speaking to people, existing clients or new people who are embracing or learning about the concept and they're at some stage in their journey, what is the feedback, what is the conversations that you're having with them after they've had a chance to watch the documentary film and get a bit of an exposure to the essence of Nelson?

You know, it's. That's a new thing that we've been doing. So I really haven't had an experience to ask that question yet, so I wish I had a better answer, but I don't yet, so.

Well, well, I'll look forward to piggybacking on that at a future time. We have you back on the show because I know for myself, having people go through the film and some of the, some of the commentary that I receive. And there's a gentleman recently, he actually lives in British Columbia here with, with myself. Amazing guy. And he just said, you know, it, it really impact. He could just, he just felt connected to Nelson. And I've had a lot of people share different words but similar experiences where it's like, you know what, he really was a character, you know, it's. He seemed like such an amazing guy. I wish I had a chance to know him. And boy, he was so passionate and I can't believe he did all this amazing stuff and we get to benefit from everything that he did. So those are some of the common themes that I hear from folks once they get a chance to, to watch it. And if I may provide a word of encouragement for you in your team as you begin to develop and grow and meet with more people, I would encourage that you, you use Nelson, I like to say, as the spouse whisperer. So, so often in a financial household, you know, there's one spouse who maybe takes the lead on initiating financial conversations. They might be the person that, you know, is paying the bills and they're doing the budget and they're a little bit more day to day involved. Then there's another spouse who's maybe more on the high level. They get the update once a quarter, you know, as soon as the financial conversation comes about, says, is everything good? It's good. Okay, great. And then they kind of move out of the conversation. So there's these varying degrees that people are intersecting with their financial life. But what I found to be very powerful is when you get Nelson in front of a couple and they can sit around the television with some popcorn or, you know, a tasty snack and, you know, whether it's A nice beverage, and they can just be with Nelson for an hour and learn about his story. It has a way of bridging the gap for people. So, you know, I would encourage anyone listening in if. If you're interested in this process and your spouse is maybe not willing or not listening or there seems to be some resistance there, do your best to get them in front of that documentary film and sit down with them. Make sure you have their favorite beverage, make sure you have their favorite snack available so you can turn it into an experience. And I would also encourage you watching with your kids. A lot of people have done that with their teenage and their adult children, and they've created a bonding experience around Nelson. And he's that glue that helps kind of keep a lot of things together. So I think that'd be something that would serve you guys really well if you get a chance to do that and communicate out to your. Your. Your people that you're looking to serve.

Already I'm already thinking of about five clients that we need to send that to them right now.

So, yeah, yeah, it's. It's absolutely phenomenal. And, and feel free to reach out to me and let me know what your experience is once you start hearing some feedback, because I think you'll. You'll find maybe not across the board, but certainly you'll have some of those common elements begin to happen now. You know, Kurt, you've attended a number of think tanks, of course, since then. Your first interaction with Nelson, being there at a think tank, what. What keeps you coming back? What is it about the Nelson Nash Institute and these events that they put on that you find are. Are helpful for you as you've been growing and developing in the business?

Yeah, for me, I think it's just seeing the. Again, seeing the different examples. Everybody's got a different personality. I mean, you mentioned you were just meeting with Mary Jo. She and I have a very different personality. Love Mary Jo, but, you know, she's going to reach people that I would never be able to connect with and vice versa. And I think that's really the cool part is that everybody's using their strengths in order to. To communicate with folks that are there. And so I love to go and just interact with the people and hear different ideas. And the presenters always do a phenomenal job. And again, just hearing the heart of people as they're sharing and seeing the impact that they're making in the way that they can where they are. And you always come away with nuggets, you know, that's a great idea, or, you know, oh, we've been doing that, and that's not working for them. No wonder it's not working for us. And so I just see it as really a great opportunity to enhance what we do in our practice, continue to expand our thinking. We always have to be rethinking our thinking as one of Nelson's golden rules. And I'm challenged on that all the time here. Yeah. Oh, you've been in this a long time, but sometimes I think I'm, I'm. I've got one year of experience repeated 23 times. So, you know, that's, you know, just the reality. So always learning and growing. And I think the, the think tank experience gets me around people who are doing the similar things and gives me a chance to rub shoulders with them and, and keep. Keep expanding and growing. I've had a chance. This year we brought, I think, eight additional people with us, so it's continuing to expose them to the opportunities that are available as well. So.

And for, I think, all those individuals, it was, again, first time for them, first interaction at a think tank event. I'm curious, you know, what were some of the conversations that you've had with them, you know, leaving the event? And since then, it's. It's been about a week or so since we were together in. In down in Orlando. Walk me through from your perspective. What have you seen some of the elements discussed, you know, as people have left that event that you brought with you to. To. To be a part of the experience?

Yeah, we have two. Two of them that came. This was their second time, but everybody else was their first time. And so everybody came away with just different. Again, different insights on. Wow, this was fantastic. This is. I needed to hear some of these things. Again, challenges to the way I think and saw a lot of different examples of how people do things. And just again, everybody comes away with something a little bit different because we're all learning and growing at a different pace. And it's kind of fun to see everybody got what they were either looking for. I asked them all, be prepared. What are you looking for? And then let me know afterwards if you found it. You know, if what she's found. And everybody felt like what they were hoping to get, they got out of the event. Yeah, it was, but everybody was. Everybody is planning on coming back next year, so we'll just leave it at that.

Great. Well, I'm excited for that. We'll look forward to seeing them because it's. It's truly an incredible Experience to be a part of and, and to be in community with one another as we, like you say, we might all be out there kind of doing our own thing to a degree, but we're all doing it in support of a bigger cause, I think, which is, you know, building the 10%. Speaking of events, you know, we have a new event that we've created at the Nelson Nash Institute. You know, of course myself and a number of other people on the practitioner council supporting the board of directors, you know, David, Carlos and of course Lee, who David's daughter, Nelson's granddaughter, now involved in really helping move things forward. And so shout out to Lee and David and Carlos, appreciate all of you. The Coaching Academy, which is an experience around really bringing people back to the core of Nelson's book, putting a lot of emphasis and a lot of in depth training on the book itself and, and the utilization of some things with some ideas around how to build your practice and, and get momentum in the business a little bit. For, for the advisor, it's not a sales training conference. It's really about focusing on core elements of education and understanding you had the ability to come through and attend Coaching Academy. I'd love to get your thoughts on that experience being that you've been in the industry for a long time, you know, shorter time with infinite banking, of course, but making that a core element and a focus of your energy. Now what comes up for you? What would you say about the going through the Coaching Academy experience? Personally?

Yeah, the Coaching Academy was something that I went to just because again I'm always wanting to learn in a deeper way and, and really just I know that the people that are there, you know, people such as yourself and Jason and you know, Bruce and all of the others that are there, James and Mary Jo and all of them just have a wealth of knowledge that I know I can continue to learn from and just being, you know, exposed, we were basically walked through the book but there was other things that were presented as well and I think it's just a great value again evaluating your own practice. What is it that you're needing to grow in? I think most of those were addressed but then also just getting a deeper dive into the book itself and just there's always things you walk away with and just say ah, that's a great. For me it was really, I think like the words I get caught up in, I say things a certain way but then somebody else says it a different way like oh, that is so much more clear. I am going to utilize that as I go forward and just little nuggets that you get or that's why, I mean, I've read the book a number of times and yet every time you read it, I was saying, I used to say that I'm learning something new. I don't know if I learned something new, but I learned something deeper at this point. And you start to see how, why Nelson told this story and how it connects to this example in this story. Like, oh, now that is becoming clear. And you think you got them all figured out and the next time you read it, there's two more.

Ah.

Oh, there's all these aha moments. So the, the Coaching Academy just added to that because now you're getting to hear from people that have a wealth of knowledge and have had, you know, a hundred more AHAs than I have, are sharing some of those AHAs and giving you some quicker. Some quicker examples. And that was. I found that very beneficial and kind of go from there.

Yeah, no, great. Absolutely love it. You're, you know, with the Institute, of course now anyone new joining, you know, there's an interview process. Some people are aware of that, not aware of that. So for those of you that we have a number of, you know, advisors that listen to the show. So if you aren't involved with the Nelson National Institute, we'd certainly encourage it. Course you can reach out to them directly. Infinitebanking.org is how you get a hold of David and Lee and then coordinating an interview process that they go through. But for anyone who joins now, they make that Coaching academy is now mandatory process to attend it in the first 12 months, which I'm really excited about. I think that's great for a couple reasons. Number one, it's going to create a lot of clarity for people right out of the gate. And then number two, it's going to help them develop some core elements and strategies and language as you identified Kurt. And that I think will help make them. It'll drastically increase their ability to achieve success in a much shorter period of time. And, you know, I think to the experience of being in the Coaching Academy, of course, having, you know, kind of wearing a different hat in that experience, being someone that's helping to teach it, I think about, you know, what the, the effort that went into creation of this event and it's really what were all the things I wish I would have had in year one that I didn't have.

Yeah.

And that's kind of a lot of the format of what's been poured into it to help get people the ability to see how they can stay out of the weeds. We call it the weeds. That's when you can't see the forest for the trees. You're zoned in on numbers. We're focusing on elements that don't fundamentally matter. We're not saying that numbers aren't important, but their degree of importance without understanding the core elements above them aren't really, you know, it's like saying that the, you know, the walls of a house don't matter. Well, you know, you don't have a house if you don't have walls on it. But if the house was just built on the ground and there was no foundation, then what matters most is that the foundation was poured and it was solid first. So that's the kind of the, the analogy between nuts, you know, saying that it's not that numbers aren't important is that what's important is what's underpinning those, that foundational knowledge that you might stack some numbers on top of, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, I know. I mean, one of my favorite phrase. Because we run into a lot of people who like the math and the numbers, and I just bring up Nelson's quote of, you know, if you don't understand the concept that the numbers don't really matter, but if you do understand the concept that the numbers still don't really matter. So. And that's hard to get across to someone who likes the numbers because, you know, it's. We think it's about the numbers and it's, it's really not. It's about the banking function and what. The numbers don't impact the banking function. It's really about the control. And so it's just a different, different way of thinking. And so, and you know, to, to your point earlier, I think that's really. I agree with you in that when you're just getting started in the business, there's so much that you just don't know that you don't, you don't know, you don't know. And, you know, that's the way it is with the book. The way with. Is the concept. But at the same time, that's what it is in starting this business. And so just getting exposure to people who have been through it before and can, you know, don't reinvent the wheel. Just learn from people who've already made all the mistakes and, you know, just start to copy the good stuff and just save yourself a bunch of headaches so that you don't, you know, why start from Scratch when you don't have to. So I wish. I wish that would happen for me, but it didn't. I got to do a lot of things the hard way, so.

Well, you know, when you do get to do some of the things the hard way, you. You respect, I think, a great deal. When the easy way does show itself or the easier path becomes prevalent and it's in your vision.

That's very true. So I am, because of all the experiences that I've had.

So there you go. Now, Kurt, everyone has a favorite page of the book. And if you're like me, and you may or may not be, I'm not sure. But what I find over time is that that shifts and changes. There's always one or two core pages that I come back to on a regular basis. But as I go through Nelson's book, I find that what's going on in my life or my world or maybe an experience recently with a client tends to skew my perspective on where my favorite page is at that time. I'm curious for yourself. When you think back to maybe the first couple of times you went through the book, was there an area that really connected with you personally that stood out, that you find yourself going back to, whether it's with clients or individuals on a regular basis?

I would say, you know, for me, it's going to sound kind of silly, but it's. It's page three, you know, the introduction, because Nelson kind of sums up the whole book on page three. And then, you know, and then page 85, he sums it all up again with some bullet points. And so, but to me, he starts to describe, you know, this is. This is just some basic material I'm going to share with you. And it has nothing to do with all the things people think it has to do with. It doesn't have any investments, doesn't have anything to do with, you know, how you buy, you know, you know, the things that you buy, all that kind of stuff, it just has to do with. We're going to get in and talk about some basic concepts about how you have to take over the banking function in your life. And he just kind of dispels a whole bunch of myths on the very first page. And I've come. I like that page. Every time I listen to the audiobook, that very beginning, I'm like, there's so much information in this. It's one little page. It's like, donald, do we need to go farther? But you do. And obviously, because there's, you know, more detail and good stuff in there. But I. That's kind of where I land is just that very first page is just a great summary of everything to keep everything in perspective for me. So. Yeah.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. It's interesting. You know, Mary Jo and I were talking about that earlier today when we were recording similarly. And. And it's funny because I know last September, we were getting ready to do the Coaching Academy in Birmingham, Alabama, and we were in discussion either might have been after the event or after one of the evenings or the day before, something to that effect. And we were talking about the introduction to the book. And, you know, Mary Jo had said, well, you know, I. You know, I don't remember the last time I really dug into the introduction. And she went and did that again, and she was like. She was so fired up about it with new perspective. And then she was. She said, you know what? At the next Coaching Academy, I want to go over this. And she was just, like, very adamant that she had to go through that page of the book. And it's now become a really core area for herself, which I think is really great. What I get when I read page, you know, page three and four is. It's kind of like. It's like a grounding exercise. You know, sometimes we have so much going on and our head is just buzzing with all these ideas and activities and the to do list, the honeydew list of things that we have to get accomplished. You. You can't even almost reframe yourself. But then all sudden, something happens. Someone comes up and says, hey, you know what? Take a deep breath. Sit down for a second. Someone comes up and gives you a big hug, and it's like everything else in your world just kind of melts away for a second, and then you're just very present in what's going on. That's what I find that page three and four does for me financially. Yeah, it creates that. That stasis of awareness and clarity and, oh, you know, okay, right. My mind is now ready to receive and learn. As I go through the rest of.

This book, you know, it makes me think about. I know in. In Canada, hockey is the big thing. In the United States, it's American football. And one of the things that there is the team, the Green Bay packers, used to have a famous coach named Vince Lombardi. And here he would work with all these professional football players, you know, back in the. I think it was back in the 60s and 70s. But he would always start out the very first practice by bringing out and saying, this is a football. Now here's, you know, these guys know how to play the game and they're professionals, they do all this kind of stuff. But yet bringing back to the basics and just getting a good, a good strong foundation again, you know, this is how we tackle, this is how everything works. This is how you, this is how you block and, and just coming back. And to me, that's really what the introduction is like. It just brings you back to the basics to make sure that you are, you know, you're, you're focused on the right things as you get into the rest of it.

So, yeah, I know at this year's think tank, I, I, I made a last minute slide for our Saturday session where we had the, the connection zone aspect, which we might talk about here in a moment. But just putting up, you know, how I recommend people read the book. And you know, it's, it's, it's my take on someone else's idea that I received years and years ago at a think tank. And you know, what I ask people to do is to, you know, I say, this is what worked for me and if it worked for me, it might work for you. Here's how I would do it. And see if you want to take it on for size. Start at page 85, you go to the end of the book, and then you go to page three and four, which is the beginning, and you actually read it twice and before you even move forward. And what I found, it's kind of like something that Nelson would do when he would start every session. He would say, this is all about how you think. It's all about how you think. You see, Kurt, it's all about how you think. Same thing three times with an emphasis on three different words. And it was a, again, a very grounding kind of moment as he would begin a teaching session. And so page three and four really creates that. And so if you read it right away, but then you go back and you read it again, your brain is already picking out things that you didn't see see when you go over it the second time, because it's really fresh in your mind.

Yeah, I agree. I, I think we just got access to your reading list. So I thought, well, there's Richard and I think very differently. So I was curious to see how you would go through it. But I, as I saw it, I was like, someone on my team was like, I don't know that I like it that way. And I go, well, you know, everybody's got their own style, but I can understand why you put it together that way. And I thought, I'm going to read it that way this next time just because my want to, I want to experience it and that might be helpful when we share it with especially particular clients as well.

So, yeah, I love that. I think that's great. I'd love to get your feedback on it to see if it does work and resonate. And you know, the other thing for myself that kind of comes up is like, I like shortcuts. I don't want to shortcut my education, but if there's a way I can do something a little bit faster or, you know, I listen to a lot of my podcasts at 2x speed. You know, some people don't like the sound of their own voice as a chipmunk. I think I sound perfectly fine as a chipmunk. So those of you watching, you can comment below and let me know. But, but I, I think it's interesting to find ways to create little efficiencies. And so the, one of the reasons I put my method together is to me, it was a way to do things a little bit more efficiently. And you know, Nelson's book is 92 pages, but if you take out the glossary and the epilogue and the reading list and the table of contents and, you know, some other kind of blank pages in there, you really dial it down to only about 70 pages that you have to read. So we say it's a 92 page book because that's the truth. But you know, what actual content that you have to go through is really boiled down to about 70 pages. And you know, if you think about it, 70 pages, how long does it really take you to read 70 pages? Right?

Well, it's not that long, especially when, you know, again, Nelson says at the very beginning of the book that he didn't write this book for, you know, insurance people like us. He wrote it for, you know, regular folks. So he's not using a bunch of industry lingo and all of the acronyms and all those things that we use to confuse people with. He's just speaking as a regular person to a regular person so that you can, you know, you can pick up on this and have it transform your life, which is what we want to be helping people do. But yeah, and now the one thing I will say is that we talk about the four characters in the play a lot. And that's so important to understand that we're typically only two of the characters in the play. The depositor and the borrower and that we don't get to be the banker or the bank owner until we start the infinite banking process and we get to add those two characters to our repertoire where we, that's how we gain the control and we, we start to share in the profit. But that is not mentioned except in the glossary. It's meant the words are mentioned, but you have to go to the glossary to actually see that it's described there and then it's not described as we just described it. So that's probably the one area that wish would have been a little clearer. But you know, obviously we know and so we can share with people and help them understand as well. So.

Yeah. One of the items in the glossary that I always appreciate, which still always puts a smile on my face, is that Nelson thought it was important enough to put the word gopher in there in relation to explaining what the gopher was. Well, the gopher is someone that works at a bank or an insurance company that pushes paper and doesn't really do anything. But when you phone in, chances are you're talking to a gopher.

Right? Yeah.

You know, go for this, go for that. He would say, that's right. That was funny. Is so cur. Interesting how he, his. His personality and his humor is infused in the writing of a book. And it's funny because nowadays if I go through the book and I'm reading it, having had the privilege to sit through his 10 hour seminar a number of times, it's literally like I'm listening reading it. It's like I can hear Nelson speaking in front of a room in my own head because it, it reads very similar. Very much like how Nelson would have talked directly. Almost like a transcript of him speaking to people who are all in a live room at the same time.

Yeah, I do have a copy of the. Of one of his. I think one is at. James Nethery had a recording. I think that's the, the one that I have of the 10 hour seminar that I've gotten to watch a couple times. So similar experience. I haven't watched it in a while, but I need to watch it again. But just as a good refresher.

Well, for our listeners there's a couple of great resources if you're not already aware. I'll give you a couple quick links and one is learn from Nelson. That's learnfromnelson.com. if you head over there, you'll get access to a free seminar that we put together which was revived from a recording in 2016 was the last year that Nelson was doing his live seminars. Actually it was recorded in July of 2016 in Kelowna, British Columbia, which is not about three hour drive from myself. And it was never meant to be released in that format. But being that there wasn't any content left of Nelson that was recorded, we thought, why don't we revive this and put it into motion so that people can experience Nelson delivering his content. It was actually a session designed for advisors, Kurt. It wasn't meant for the general public. And you know, we, I spent a long time working with the video editor and everything, putting B roll that showed books that Nelson was recommending, authors, a variety of things. We took segments of the book and we showed them in the screen as Nelson's going through it. So you can kind of follow along with Nelson there as well for free. And then if anyone hasn't yet done so, we always encourage them to subscribe to the Nelson Nash Institute YouTube channel. They have a brand new podcast called the Nelson Nash sorry, the Infinite Banking Initiative, which is a great opportunity to, you know, hearing from agents and their stories. And there's so many great clips and content components of Nelson there that people can really get a great opportunity to expose themselves to the kind of man that he was and his ideas and his way of framing the world as we see it today.

Yeah, I've, I have caught a couple segments of what you were just describing the Learn from Nelson and it was very good. That was. Yeah, I, I'll have to go back and find that again. I'd forgotten about it. There's so many good resources, it's hard to keep track of them all, to be honest.

One of the things that we, we've done, we started doing and implementing at Ascendant is once a year we get together and we try to watch Nelson's seminar, the DVDs or DVDs. We, we literally had to go and buy USB DVD players because no computers have DVDs in them anymore to play it and, and play the sessions, you know, basically like through zoom or whatever with our team so that we could discuss and learn together. Especially for those that didn't have the opportunity, the chance to meet Nelson. And you know, Jason and I would ad lib a little bit here and there with some of the things that we would add some flavor to what Nelson would say. And I would encourage anyone who's in the, if they're just looking at the concept for themselves personally, you can absolutely go and get it, get a copy of those Those sessions are available now online. You can go to the infinite banking.org and order a copy of them. Well worth your time to explore the concept. But for advisors, I think it's really a requirement. They should have a chance to go through Nelson's seminar and be able to expose himself to the way that he did things. And it's a really eye opening experience and it's a great way to also create a lot of great conversation and discussion about how you might want to move forward, presenting things and take some of Nelson's, we call them Nelson isms into your own world and embrace them. And there are a lot of them and I find myself not even realizing when I'm doing it. Actually in, in meetings these days, they just kind of come out and like, is that, is that mine or is that Nelson's? It's probably Nelson's and I'm just channeling it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you say it long enough and you, you think about it long enough, it just becomes part of who you are. So, yeah, no doubt about it.

That's what I like to share with people these days, is that, you know, I, I'm just doing my best to channel my inner Nelson and make sure I can get it out into the atmosphere as much as possible and hopefully in a way that he would be proud of.

Yeah, sure. Understand.

Now, Kurt, you've been blessed to be able to start mentoring a number of people in this process as well. And you know, you mentioned, you know, you've got kind of a teacher's heart at your core. What is it, what is it like for you and how do you enjoy the process of helping somebody maybe new to the industry discover this concept and embracing it as something that they can take as a career path?

Yeah, again, I just, I. There's something about giving somebody the opportunity to have that very first. Aha. To discover what the problem is. And then some people just take it and run it wouldn't run with it, and other people take it a little slower like I did. But for those who just pick it up and run with it. So one of my teammates, Che, I'll shout out to Che. So one of my teammates, chef, he said in my office he worked for another insurance company. And. And sadly, the insurance industry has, in some cases has quotas. You have to sell a certain amount of stuff in order to stay in the business or else it's really not designed for helping people. It's designed about making money for the companies and. Which is sad to see, but I understand it Is, you know, we're in the capitalist society and that's part of it, but it also turns an awful lot of great people out of the business because of that. And so when I got a chance to meet, I'm getting, you know, a little bit grayer on the edges here. So I started having clients ask me questions about Kurt. If something happens to you, what's going to happen? Well, it's a fair question. So I started asking around at networking meetings. I need to find a. A junior me who's willing to be coachable and learn what we do and those kinds of things. And I was introduced to Chef through a networking event, and he had just been let go from one of these companies. And when I got to share with him the idea, he loved life insurance. He just didn't understand how it could be used as a process for infinite banking. It was a death benefit. That's what he was taught. And go sell lots of it because people need it. Which is. That's true. But when I sat down and just shared how it works and that there's a process that you can use to be catering, he just, like, was overwhelmed with it. And he has taken the ball and run with it, and he shows me up all the time. He's. It's been fun to work with him and, and he's been a great, A great teammate to have. And to me, that's. There's just no greater joy of being able to just share some information with someone and they get that aha moment. And to me, that's the greatest pay of what we do is. Is just seeing. Knowing that you've just helped change the trajectory of someone's life and in their family, and to be able to be a part of that journey is. I don't know, I. I would do it for free if, you know, just because that's the part that I get the most excited about. So.

I love that. That's. That's wonderful. And, you know, having had a chance to, of course, meet Che and, And connect with him, he does. He's got that fire and that passion and definitely embrace the learner aspect. You know, very voraciously focused on learning and growing and then also sharing that with other people. So, yeah, absolute shout out. You know, we'll have to have him on the podcast one of these days.

Yeah, he'll put me to shame.

So now, you know, a couple of things I'm curious about, Kurt, is your. As you move forward in this, you know, you've got time under your belt now. But you have a lot more to give when you think about some of your future and helping people embrace Nelson's message and, and doing it in the way that you've been doing it and having an opportunity to maybe expand your potential with that, with more resources and increasing your knowledge base and having a, you know, great teammate and more teammates surrounding you. What has you excited about the next five to 10 years as you continue to go out and share this message with more people?

I remember if I think it was the. It might have been that very first think tank that I was at, or it was the first or second one and Carlos was up on stage and it was the first time. I'll take a step back. When people talked about economics, I was kind of like, okay, yeah, I took economics in high school, I took it in college. And it was like, eh, oh, you know, wasn't. It wasn't very exciting. Oh, supply and demand curve, you know, and you draw the chart and all that kind of stuff. It's like, this is not fascinating to me, but after I went to that think tank, it was.

It was.

Carlos was up giving his. His keynote at the beginning, and he was talking about reaching the 10%. And it dawned on me that economics is about freedom, and I love freedom. And all of a sudden just resonated with me that we're not doing this. We're not doing this to sell more policies, right? To help people get more life insurance policies. We're doing this because we're helping people become free. And then it was like, oh, that was another aha moment for me. And I was just like, wow, that is a whole different take on what is happening here. And it got me really excited about economics. And I've been reading a lot more about economics and going to the, you know, foundation for Economic Education fee and different things and reading articles and things. And I've read a number of books about economics. And you go to the back of the book with Nelson's, you know, his book list in there, and there's other lists around and just starting to pick up those books and read them and say, wow, this is really fascinating. And I find myself talking more about economics and freedom and those things in my conversations with, with. With folks we get to meet with. And it's really changing my perspective again, rethinking our thinking and expanding. But Nelson was just so impact or not Nelson, but Carlos was very impactful in that, that presentation. And it helped me understand the importance of what reaching the 10% was all about. And for me, that's really, that's when I think about next 5 to 10 years just teaming up with, with you know, your team, you know, trying to, you know, beginning to build that here in the, in the US Having the resources available, just the potential. It's like that is a definite possibility and I'm excited to be part of that. And that's really what I'm about is we're helping one family at a time but we're, we're helping one family time become free financially and, and in life in general. And we want to have 10% of North America have that opportunity. And to me again when, when somebody gets an aha so we can get 10 of North America having aha moments to say I need to take control of the banking function in my life and I get to be a part of that. Well that's, that's pretty exciting to me. So that's where that's how I see it. That's what we want to be a part of.

So I love that. That's a great vision for the future and I appreciate you know again the great shout out to Carlos. That's Carlos Lara for anyone who is curious. He's on the board of directors for the Nelson Ash Institute. And you know, really Carlos has embraced the Austrian mindset of economics and this last year's think tank here, you know, Carlos did a very, you know, inspirational take on you know, what, what, what the, what the quote unquote evil is that's out there in the banking sector, the banking industry and, and how the methodology by which money is manipulated as currency in most nations that manipulation effect is, is really part of the pressure that holds people down and that we can break free from those pressures when we take, take it into our own hands through mutual insurance, through the co ownership of a general fund of an insurance company that we mutually share in that benefit. But it's an entity, the insurance company as a whole is an entity that's not allowed to inflate the money supply and create money that didn't exist out of thin air. And fundamentally at its core, that's one of the core elements that Nelson really wanted to see. He says, you know, you can be individually and personally prosperous, you, you, you can create your own individual power and, and, and property and prosperity through this method of ownership over dividend paying whole life insurance. And you don't have to ask anyone's permission to do it. You need permission from an underwriter to approve you for the life insurance application. But beyond that, the decision to do it doesn't require anything else other than your decision and your own, your own human action. Going back to again, the Austrian mindset of, of human action and mises. So these fundamental core elements are all surrounding us. And one thing that I've become really clear of, you know, Kurt, I can share with you. Nelson mentions it in the book. I don't recall what page, but he says something to the effect it's actually on page. I think it's mentioned on page 85 that what. Imagine you're in a business relationship with people that care about their families and only those who care about their families to some degree would participate in the activity. So that means if someone doesn't care about their family or they don't have a family, or they have no interest in protecting or having a legacy event by having insurance, then they simply won't ever go get the insurance.

Right.

But people that do want to create that environment, that do care about the people they love and care about, they want to make sure that they're looked after in such a way where they, they don't experience the hardships and they have to rely on, on the federal government or the state or the provincial government to support their needs of the remaining family members. Well, they solve that in an environment that doesn't require government. They solve it in an environment that was created by people for people, which is the basis of how insurance was designed. And what better relationship to be in with people? And Jason's common saying this, you know, the difference between certain types of companies, stock company versus a mutual company, says who would you rather be in a 100 year relationship with the company where they do absolutely everything for you or the company where they have to appease quarterly share profits and reports to make sure their shareholders are happy? Which, which one would you rather enter a relationship with contractually for a really long period of time? And so some of those base fundamental elements I think are really good thinking questions that the general public and even probably a lot of advisors could take heed of.

Yeah, yeah. And when you become, when you, when you take hold of a policy and, you know, your comment I thought was impactful in that, you know, once you get a policy, you have to go through underwriting, but once they approve you, they can't take it back. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's pretty powerful. So, you know, all the more reason to think about getting one sooner than later while you can. And then it's yours and the only person who can destroy it is you. After that, it's really just you know, it just keeps growing and building. But the, the idea is that then being part owner of that insurance company and getting to share in the fact that they are, they're. They're pretty good at making a profit, I found. And the fact that then when they do that, then they, they share it with all the owners, which we, we get to be part of that. And so if you're, you know, that going along what you said, if you're gonna be part owner of a company, I'd like to be part owner of a company that's profitable all the time. You know, it doesn't have, you know, really bad years and stuff. So that's another good one to be a part of. So we're part of several of them, actually, and we love to enjoy. Enjoy experiencing their profit. That comes pretty much every year.

Yeah, it's a. I mean, when. When you engineer something that's designed to not only have a extremely high success at being profitable, but that you've got a demonstrated track record that is, you know, 80, 100, 150, 200 years or so old.

Right.

It's pretty hard to suggest that that won't continue in the future. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely.

Yeah. Yeah. The odds are in your favor that's going to continue.

So, you know, there's something about confidence and Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coach. Shout out to Dan Sullivan and of course, Babs who create Strategic Coach. You talk a lot about confidence and that confidence can. Creates clarity. So the more and more you can have and build confidence in different areas of your life, maybe it's around your work or your job or your family. Being a father, being a parent, being a grandparent, being a, you know, whether it's with your faith, whatever the confidence is you're looking to create, the greater that you increase the influence over that confidence that you can have, the more success you tend to create in that environment of your life. Well, your financial life is no different. So if we can create peace of mind, clarity and confidence that you can build on year after year after year in your financial life, the likelihood of that activity is that you'll have a far superior and more enjoyable financial life. Yeah.

That'S really the goal. That's what people are looking for. And I used to tell a story about, you know, when you think about how your finances are going, I want you to think about, have you ever baked a cake? Not everybody has, but a lot of people have. And you think about your favorite kind of cake. What kind is it? A Lot of people will pick chocolate. So let's say we're gonna bake a chocolate cake. And so you get out the, you get out a, a recipe card. And the recipe says, we'll take a little bit of sand and a little bit of gravel and a little bit of chocolate syrup and mix it all together and throw it in the oven at 350 degrees and bake it for a while. And what do you think is going to come out? Chocolate cake, right? And everybody says, no, it's going to be something disgusting. Oh, well, maybe you just didn't mix it, right. Maybe you should try again and try again. And obviously the definition of a sanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. So we'll just say, well, if you're, when you look at your financial life in that regard, maybe you've been putting in the wrong elements, maybe you've been looking at things in the wrong way. And maybe we need to change the ingredients and the processes that you use so that you can get the chocolate cake that you're looking for and just kind of, kind of going down that road.

So love it. That's a phenomenal analogy. I absolutely love it. Well done, Kurt. Now, you may not have shown up here, of course, to the program today wearing a cape, but you're out there actively doing your best to be a superhero to so many people by providing the value of Nelson's work and entering that transformational process into their life. So I'd love to hear, Kurt, from your perspective, who is it that you'd most like to be a hero to?

Oh, boy. Well, I don't know if I could pick one individual person, but obviously as many, as many people who are open minded and coachable, who are willing to look at something maybe a little different they've never seen before. You know, whether you're local or online and want to sit down and meet with us, we'd be happy to just let you get exposed to an opportunity that could literally change your life and the life of you and your family and your children and your grandchildren and however many future generations their opportunities there are. I really just think it's a matter of having an open mind and, and take a chance to look at it. And if you will, odds are you'll be a different person a year from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, and so will your family. And we would all. I, I would typically tell people, you know, some of the wealthiest people, you know, have been using these processes for this process for a long time. And the reality is, is your family is probably just two or three generations from being like that, if that's what you would desire. But somebody has to be the hero in your family. And in my family, I'm. I'm that person. I'm choosing to do things differently than other people in my family did when I was growing up. And we're be seeing the impact. We're seeing the transformation happen in our lives, and we're. I just want to offer that same opportunity to anyone who's open to looking at it, and so I'll leave it at that.

Fantastic. Kurt, this was a lot of fun. Thanks so much for being on the program today. I'm excited about having you back on again in the future and hearing how you guys are growing and molding the future, of course, as you embrace helping so many people in the United States. For those of you turning in, of course on YouTube, you'll see that there's a magical little video that popped up that says, oh, my God, this is the next video recommended by Richard. We should click it and watch it right now. So don't let me stop you. Go ahead and click that and watch the next video. There's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. And for those of you tuning in on audio, we will catch up with you next week.