The Farmer’s Role: What to Do When Your Child Won’t Change | Richard and Shannon Morales

Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos, your host. And one of the things I've run into in Parents on a Mission and all the different families and parents that we work with is sometimes parents will have what's called a strong-willed Child, or some if you want to call it stubborn, or if you want to call it rebellious, whatever it is, the issue is it's a challenge. And sometimes parents are trying this and they're trying that. Maybe there's been a lot of discipline, and then more discipline, and then maybe a counselor. But the bottom line is it is a challenge. It's not easy. I've been through that myself. So. We teach— there's something in Parents on a Mission that we teach to help parents through that. Now, when I first was dealing with this issue with parents, I did not know what to tell them what to do. I was a young parent at the time, but dealing with a strong-willed child, somebody who's just, you know, in, in street language, you're just a hard head and they don't want to cooperate and you're trying to do all these things and it's just not working. So then what do you do? So I implemented this strategy that I call the farmer role. And today I have a couple on that I want to bring onto the show who have experienced this. And luckily they've come through this, but they're on the other side of it now, or so to speak. The harvest has come. But what I want to talk about is a little bit is about what that process was. So today I have Richard and Shannon Morales. They're from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Welcome to the show, guys.

Hey, thank you so much, Richard. Happy to join you again.

So yeah, let's talk about it. I remember receiving your email and that was a few years ago, and I was just so touched by this email that you sent me because we're just doing the work. You're doing the work, you're doing the work. But then when you receive an email or a letter like the one you sent me, it was just so rewarding. But I know the pain you went through. Whichever one of you wants to start, well, how did it go and what was that process like?

I think as you pointed out that, that letter that I wanted to share with you, cuz so much of getting through the difficult times was leaning into a lot of the principles that you teach on Parents on a Mission, cuz it was absolutely the farmer's role. It was all the tilling, it was all the weeding, it was all the stuff that feels like a lot of labor, but getting that labor, getting that letter. Just really felt like the fruit was there. And that letter was just specific to my son who went into the Army, received a commendation, and it was a significant commendation of him and the training that he was doing, his presence, his professionalism. And he was presenting in front of generals. And so for us to be thinking, oh man, this kid couldn't make his bed, and now he's— these things, and we're just like, wow, you do. It may not come in your time, but sometimes you just have to trust the principles and know that that fruit will come.

Yeah. And just for those of you who aren't familiar with what I mean by farmer's role, very quickly, what does a farmer have to do? It's hard work. They got to plow the land year after year. They got to seed it. They got to water and cultivate it. And then they got to wait. The patient Part for the harvest. So that's why I call it the farmer's role. So Shannon, what was that waiting period like for you?

Yeah, it was, it was challenging and frustrating sometimes because you're waiting for the change or you feel like you're taking one step forward, two steps back. And really that waiting period is tough and it's tough to be patient and have this hope that things will adjust. In the future, and it's tough to really be consistent. Sometimes the wait is long, and you have to even if you're tired and frustrated and disappointed and struggling with those things, that you just know that if you keep being consistent and moving forward, you'll get there. It is, but the waiting—it's tough. It's a tough. It's a tough period. It's a chance, I would say. For growth as a parent as well.

Yeah. And I've been through it myself. And sometimes I backslide to the old me just wanting to, I want that fruit right now. But I learned a lot of this stuff from Stephen Covey and he would always say, you can't pull up the roots to see how the plant is doing. And it's so true because it's hard. And sometimes I would just get so angry, like, Why aren't you getting this? This is just like ABC stuff. But you guys know what that's like.

Absolutely. And I think— and I just want to point out with Shannon is, yeah, it was that opportunity to work on ourselves because that was the only thing at the end of the day I had control over. That's right. Instead of reacting, how am I responding? Because it wasn't just about one child. We had 2 other children. So kind of what are we role modeling and demonstrating in those moments? But also knowing that when those children were kind of getting a little off track, not to overreact.

Yeah.

And so they're not getting some of the other child's frustration that we're having with this other child. So it was, you really have to check in with yourself and it's hard. And you, we didn't always get it right. But I think part of the things you said, the power of the apology, when I didn't get it right, go to the child and say, hey, you know what? I was really frustrated and I shouldn't have yelled at you like that. That wasn't that big a deal. I'm sorry.

And that took Yeah, so all of you listening out there, Richard just touched on 2 key points that this is really the main point that we try to get across to mom and dad. It's about us. It's about working on ourselves because, as Richard said, ultimately you can't control your kids. That's not what this is about. You could kind of control them if you— when they're little, you can kind of put them in the right direction, but ultimately it's about you. Bribe them or threaten them. But when they get older, that stuff doesn't work. So really what it comes down to is me. What am I doing maybe that's adding to this problem? And that that really is the crux of it. The second thing he said was apologizing. What a concept! This is not hard. The idea of it, the concept to do it though. So isn't isn't always easy to admit as the dad, the parent, the mom. Okay, you know what? I need to go to the room, knock on the door, whatever, and say, "Hey, I'm sorry." So Shannon, I'm sure you've been. Oh, and third, before you answer Shannon, the other thing is you have two younger kids, and they're watching this, and they're learning, and they're hearing. So anyway, what did you feel about that, Shannon? Or maybe did Richard do all the apologizing?

Wait, no, it was a challenge. I think it— the apologizing is so important, so key, because yeah, we're not perfect. I think as a mom, I think there's the frustration, but there's also the hurt when it's— it can be hurtful, some of the behaviors and reactions on their part. And I think being able to say, yeah, that was hurtful to me, but they know I'm always going to be here. So. That's the important piece. I'm always going to be here. It's hurtful, but— and I'm going to apologize when I get it wrong. And modeling that and knowing that they may not hear the words, they may not listen to everything you're saying, but they're definitely paying attention to what your behaviors and what you're doing as more of a modeling thing. And I think that was a big piece for me, was just doing the right thing versus the lectures or the saying, this is what you need to do, those sorts of things. I think it's the modeling. That finally got there in the end for us, for sure. Because now we're seeing almost the behaviors with our son's own children and how— what a great dad he is. And it's—

Yeah.

That's really the farther fruit. That's even the next step is being able to say, not only did we get through some of the challenges and relationship things that we needed to at the time, but now we're seeing The healthy behaviors and parenting that he's doing. And that's really, that's the big, really big picture for us.

Yeah, it really is. So now you're seeing the next generation. Um, and that, that what I wanted to get to is now your son is a parent of 3 children. So now he's on the other side of it. And I'm sure he's getting a lot of revelation about, oh, I guess my mom and dad were pretty smart after all. Now he's dealing with it. And, but that's when you think about farmers, generation after, they own the same, basically the same land for generation after generation. They turn it over to the next generation and then to the next. Some families have had the farm for generations. That's the same idea with our kids. Someday, hopefully your grandkids will have kids, but they will take those same— principles, and it just keeps going. And I know that's, um, all of our hope that we create that kind of atmosphere. So Richard, how, why, or how was it that your son ended up in the military? What was that about?

I think it, he was a super bright kid, great athlete, but at times it just felt he was too cool for school. It just, just going through things and he made choices. That it got him to a point where he couldn't go to college. He didn't have the grade. He was smart enough. He could work hard enough, but he didn't have the grades to go do all those things. So it was a trade school or the military, and he decided to go in the military, which was a great option for him.

And what was the, just a little bit more specific on the, what you sent me, the award and what that was about?

Yeah. When we went in, because he was looking at which military branch to go, so we're going to recruiters and we're still there supporting him. and trying to figure out what's best and talk about these decisions. And there was a test called the ASVAB to get in the military and it scores and kind of like where you're at and what occupation you can go into. And Shannon was just so flustered with him because he scored off the charts. They were like, oh, this score, you could do whatever you want.

Yeah, that's frustrating.

And so Shannon was just like, are you serious? Are you kidding me?

Struggling with graduating from high school.

Yeah.

But you can't—

Oh yeah. We were still like, Yeah. He went into the military just a week, 10 days after he graduated high school.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So he was right there, but he went into military intelligence. So he was doing classified security clearance. He had all of these different things. And just doing the military intelligence he was doing, he was also training other people who were coming in and then going into the same occupation that he was in. But then they started cross-training different branches. So he'd go to a different military branch and then do, do the training. But the commendation just really spoke to so many different things that you hope as a parent that the, the world is, is seeing and getting to benefit from. It was all in there. It was just great.

Yeah, I remember reading it and all the different— if I'm reading that about my son, I think you were saying like, who is this kid? Because you, like Shannon, you're like, you You got— you were frustrated because it's, dude, you're not even passing your classes. What is going on? And then you get that thing. It's like, duh, see, all this time, this is who you really are. But I think in fairness to him and in fairness to kids, sometimes school, public schools.

Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

They're not talking about what these kids are passionate about.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's certainly something to that. And then just finding a different pathway forward and us keeping our mind frame and options open, because we were both very much, oh, you go to college. That was the pathway. So we even had to back up and say, no, there's other pathways here that are really good. And even normalize some of those things and praise that. It wasn't kind of, oh, you could only get in the military. That's all you got because you couldn't go to college. It was like, no, this is a great path. Be proud of this.

Now for some of you, let me just have a teaching moment here. For some of you that are listening, you're saying, what is this, Richard? I'm, I'm in this situation. I'm pulling my hair out, my kid, my daughter, whatever. What is this farmer? What do I do? It's very simple. Plowing the land, I use that as a metaphor of confrontation. I mean, in other words, the land kind of represents the heart or the soil, which is the heart. And we can't just give up, which a lot of parents do. They just give up. And throw their hands in the air, and I understand that. But what I'm saying, you just got to keep confronting them on their behavior. You know, letting them know, "Hey, I know I can't control anymore what you're doing out there, but I just want you to know, son or daughter, I'm not approving of it. I don't. I love you, but I don't like what you're doing." That does is it deals with their conscience. So when they're out there, they might be partying or doing whatever, but in their conscience, they hear the words. I don't like what you're doing. I love you, but what you're doing. So that's and that's just something you have to do. The seeds that we plant, those are our words, and that's so important. The message, the way we say things. So I had to learn how to say negative things in a positive way. Things like, son, this is not who you are. I believe in you, but not what you're doing. You're better than this. This is not the real you. And I would be saying things like that constantly, reminding him. Who he is? That's not that. Then the the cultivation—that's just every time you can give him affection. Maybe it's a birthday, maybe it's Christmas, high five, fist bump, anything like that. And then the watering part is affirmation. Just words of affirmation: Hey, good grades! Or thank you for cleaning your room. Or that that kind of thing. So that that's the process. But I'm interested now, you guys. So for all you parents out there, that, that's what we're talking about when we talk about the farming role. And it just takes time. But what I wanted to ask you is Connor now, is he seeking your, does he come to you and seek your advice? Or how is that now that he's a parent?

Yeah, him and his wife are amazing. And they've got the 3 young girls. And there are times where they're just exasperated and they'll come over and say, oh my gosh, what would you guys do with this? And so having those conversations, and for us sometimes to say, hey, that's normal. It's not you doing something or not doing something. That, that, that's okay. You're just gonna have to ride this one out. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is. So those kinds of things. But also what I really like is our family's really tight, so we're always around.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody has the same approach of, here's our family values. And so the alignment as a family, when the kids are like acting up, it doesn't matter who you're talking to. They're kind of getting the same guidance. Hey, no, that, that's not okay. Or, hey, great job. Or our family, we don't do that. Or yes, our family does, does. That's great. And that is huge. That's huge. As to have voices speaking into their lives, no matter where they're going. Yeah. They're kind of hearing the same thing.

Yeah, that's really huge because you have a younger son, was a little younger than, than Connor, and then you have a daughter, but now they're adults. Like you said, that the uncle and the aunt can be very helpful. You guys all live close and that's great. Shannon, what about the fact that your son has 3 daughters? Like, is that play into the way he's— you think he would be the way he is with boys, or how is that dynamic with? Him and 3, 4 girls. So his wife and 3 girls.

Yeah. No, it's really fascinating to see it. I think we're all really adjusting to the girls, 3 girls, and that because—

Lots of big feelings.

Yeah, a lot of big feelings. A lot of— and sometimes Connor, God love him, he's just like, this is a lot. It's just a lot of feelings, a lot of that sort of thing. So it's been really a good learning, I think, for all of us, to be honest, on how to have big feelings and how to manage that and support it in a way that doesn't overtake everything.

Yeah.

Kind of thing. And finding that balance.

Yeah.

So it's been really great to see that. And I think for our other kids too, just, it's been fun to have everybody involved in that altogether. Just supporting everybody across the board, just to see the family members all step up and help and wanna be there for everything has been really nice.

Yeah.

And the involvement with things and spending the time. So it's been good. And very interesting to see the girl, all girls.

The girl energy.

Yes. It's fun.

That's— I, I have 3 girls too.

There you go.

Yeah. So I know, but I have 2 boys, but you know, it is, I don't know, Richard, do you see any daddy-girl favoritism there or is it papa-girl favoritism?

No, the girls love their daddy. Just, they love the time with him. Each, it's different.

Of course.

That's really cool. One likes to roughhouse and wrestle around, and one just wants the hugs. And it's really cute to see this, the different personalities and adjustments that's being made. But definitely at times when they're all crying over something, you're like, what are you crying about? What is the big deal here? And one minute they're smiling, next minute they're crying. We're like, what happened? It's just big girl energy. And yeah, he does really well with that.

Yeah.

Yeah, that could be— go ahead, Shannon.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, and I think the other places we're really seeing it is the relationship with his wife and how amazing Ari is with the girls, the patience, the level. They just really balance each other out beautifully. And they met in high school. They were young, and they're growing up together and growing up with the kids. And I think that's been a huge piece as well. Yeah. So we're really proud of what they're doing, having children young like we did, just, and then growing and getting their careers going and their family and trying to balance all of those things while maintaining relationship and all of that. So we're just, it, it's really impressive to see. And we know it's a challenge. We know how hard it is to do those things. And they're really, that's a whole nother growth or, I don't know, field that they're, that is now really starting to bloom and blossom as well. And it's great to see that. Peace, because it's hard enough raising, but then maintaining relationships and, and growing up together and all of those things. And they're really doing a beautiful job.

Yeah. And getting on the same page for those types of things, of having the conversations and checking in and, you know, asking, hey, is this right? And all of the things you'd hope you would do as a parent, you're seeing that in them. We're like, oh, they're ahead of us, you know, in these ways. Yep.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And that's great to see. And I see that in my kids too. At their age, I was not the parent that when I first started parenting, I was not. It took time to grow. But listen, you guys are doing a great job. And I wanted to have you on because we know there are so many single moms, divorced parents, blended families, stepparents. And especially if you, when you're a stepparent and if you have a stubborn child like this, it's not easy, man. It's hard when you're dealing with somebody who's not your biological, biological daughter or son. Even an extra, a little extra challenge there. But for those of you that are out there, the main thing I wanted you to get today was the hope. There is a process, but there is hope. And it's the persistence, the patience. And if you pray, that's what it takes. It's not easy, as Richard and Shannon have said, to wait for the harvest. But the thing about it is we have a law. It's called the law of the harvest, which means whatever you plant, that's what's going to grow. Of course, there has to be the cultivation of that, which is the patience and doing things in the right way and apologizing and things like that. But The law of the harvest is on your side. As long as you continue to plant those seeds, cultivate those seeds, the day will come when you're going to reap the fruit of it. I can speak to that personally. It's been a huge challenge for us and with one of our sons, but he—the blossom is there. You know, we're waiting for the actual fruit, but the leaves and the blossoms are all there. And so we know that we just have to keep doing what we're doing. So I want to encourage you in that. Those of you that are listening, Richard and Shannon, I really respect you guys. I love you guys. We've been friends a long time, so you know it's been wonderful for you guys to see our kids and us see your kids. Now you're seeing my grandkids and great-grandkids, and we just keep this this going. But I want to thank you for your time, and for those of you that are listening, sometimes when we listen to podcasts, we don't always subscribe. But it would be a huge favor to me if you would subscribe and share this episode if you know somebody, a friend or family that. Really could hear this message of hope that it does work. These principles do work. Absolutely. And as well, don't forget that I have free resources on my website, richardrramos.com. You can go there, download those resources. My books are there, and you can get a free chapter if you want to test drive my books. Whether or not you want to buy it, you can download a free chapter, check it out. And all of those resources are there for one reason, and that is we want to help turn your heart. To your children, because that turns the heart of them to you. And when you have that connection, that reconciliation, that wins the loyalty of your children. And that really is what we want to see happen. So again, this is Richard Ramos. Thank you for listening. And remember, mom and dad, parents on a mission is not for bad parents; it's for good parents like you that want to get better. See you next time.