171: Build Your Empire Without Losing Your Family with Richmond Dinh

99.9% of the time, it's not a problem. They just had a little fall. And that instant reaction lets them equate that falling is bad, failing is bad. It's shameful. It's going to get a reaction, it's going to get judgment because of the instant judgment from the people around you. And so because people are not scared of failing, they're scared of other people seeing them fail because of that type of parenting.

Welcome back to dadpreneurs Rising. Longtime listeners, thanks for being here. New listeners, if you're a dad and you're in business and you want to continue to hear from other amazing dads who are in business, then hit subscribe or follow because this is the podcast for for you. We talk about wealth, we talk about parenting, we talk about being a man, we talk about entrepreneurship, we cover it all. So this is the place to be. And today we are talking to Richmond Dinh and he is known as the coach's coach. He is an ex health professional who left a high paying career as an optometrist to become a business coach and has since generated over $11 million online since he started eight years ago. And I actually had the privilege to, I was just looking at this seven years ago, six and a half maybe years ago, Richmond and I had our first interaction. I can't remember if our first interaction was in person or online, but we had a Facebook messenger conversation in 2018, so about six and a half years ago. And he's also a published author and has shared the stage with Billie Jean, Dean Graziosi, Russell Brunson. So if you've been in the online marketing world, you know, these are pretty heavy hitter names. He's also the founder of underdogmovement.com and very exciting, the creator of Tiny Challenge. He's just released a book which you can find@tinychallengebook.com you should definitely check it out. But most importantly, and one of the key reasons he's on this show is he is a devoted husband to his beautiful wife and he's the father of three beautiful girls. So, Richmond, welcome my friend. So good to have you.

Thank you for having me, Cal. Well, I am so I'm so humbled and also impressed by how much you knew about me. I'm like, whoa. Because I guess everything's on the Internet these days. But it's like, wow, this guy knows. Ex health professional, we met six years ago, how much you generate online and author and all that kind of stuff. So I appreciate you doing your Homework and stating that. So it really, really means a lot.

Well, we have amazing tools these days, like chat, GPT. Deep research can really help. If you're a podcast host and you're not using that already to help you with some of your search, I highly recommend it. But, Richmond, dude, I'm. I'm thrilled to have you because one thing I didn't say in the intro is, you know, we've known each other sometimes closely, like, we've shared, we'd been in business, boardroom masterminds together, and we've just also just kind of been in each other's world a little bit. And you are just a really genuine giver. Right? Like, there's something that you. You posted. I was part of my research. I was reminded of this when you were in this mastermind that we were in together with Taki Moore. You said your ego wants to be right, not rich. And it's something that really.

I think, really hits home about you. I don't find too much ego in you. I don't know what your internal experience is, but you're able to drop that ego better than I think many others can. And I think that's just a huge testament to you, man. So I appreciate it. Appreciate you. Appreciate how you show up in life and in business.

So let's talk a bit about life before we get into the business stuff, because that's coming. If you're here wanting to learn about Tiny Challenge, check out the website, check out the book, but we will touch on that. But let's talk a little bit more about the early years, Richmond, and particularly building this business, because I've seen you go from strength to strength over these last six and a half years, but you also have three kids and a wife. How do you do it? You know, are you going to tell us that you've got it all perfectly worked out, or are you going to. Is there some times where shit just hit the fan and everything went wrong? Like, just give us a quick. We'll delve deep, but just give us the overview of how have you built business and still being a good dad and still being a present husband.

I love it. First of all, I'm glad you used the word shit, because it gave me permission.

Oh, my gosh.

This is one of these podcasts. We can use the words because you just never know. I'm not gonna, like, swear profusely or anything like that, but it's. I've been on some interviews. It's like, you know, you can't say this. You can't say these. You can't say this. I'm like, oh, Carl just said the word, the S word. I'm like, all right, this is. This is relax. Now. This is dad mode. To the max on a Saturday night, having a beer, drinking with your friends.

100%. That's the mode we're in.

Yeah.

All right.

Good, good, good, good. Okay, well, first of all, I appreciate the ego comment as well. And I'm guessing that's why we get along. Because I just. Yeah, I don't know. I've just never been that guy, you know? You know. You know, some. Some guys are like, you know, got the Alpha complex. They got. They're walking the chest. Huff, puff, like, you know what I mean? Like, just. I've never been that person. And I don't. I don't know. I just. I don't know. I don't know what it means when someone is like that. But, yeah, so thank you for that. It really means a lot. And I think leaning on what you just said there, I think that allows you to become a greater father and a greater husband because you don't have this huge underlying Alpha complex about you, but also allows you to become a great business person, as. Because you don't have that about you. And so you create relationships, real long lasting relationships, when you don't believe that you have to be the top dog or, you know, the top G or whatever it is all the time. And so to. To answer your question about being a father, that's probably the start of it is the desire to not have to be first and the desire not have to be the most important person in the room. That kind of stuff. Everyone wants to be special, everyone wants to be significant. But if that's your main driver and that you have to be number one all the time in a room, you're going to destroy all your relationships, including your team, including your spouse, including your kids. So that's step number one. So thank you for bringing that up. I believe. It's funny. No one prepares to be a dad or a husband. There's. You hear that? There's no license for it. There's definitely a lot. No license for being a spouse or a father, but I do. And I remember my first coach, Scott Harris, who, like, you know, speaks for Tony Robbins and stuff. He. He said to me, richmond, like, the. The number one personal development program you ever do is when you become a coach, when you become a business person. And that stuck with me forever. And little did I know that becoming an entrepreneur naturally qualified me to become a better father and better husband. Like that was unintended. But it did. Because as you know, as an entrepreneur, you're going to have to face a lot of rejection, face a lot of discipline, a lot of discouragement, a lot of failure, a lot of setbacks, a lot of fears of success, fear of judgment. All those things that you have to overcome to become successful in business makes you a 100 times better husband and father, because then you can teach that to your kids and you can be the example in your family. So that in itself has allowed me to grow the business while growing the family at the same time. Now, if I wasn't in business, I would dare say it would have been harder because I wouldn't have those skills. And so the misconception is when you grow a business, you don't have the time. But the truth is, when you grow a business, you grow the skills to become a better father and husband and better family man.

I like how you frame it up like that. And it's funny, my mind was going like, oh, like, you know, facing rejection because you're being rejected by your kids or maybe, you know, the not tonight honeys from, from your wife when you're interested in getting a bit intimate, right? Like. But I think there's an interesting distinction that I'm thinking about what you're saying here. Being an entrepreneur prepares you with the skills. I've seen that. What can happen though, for some guys in business is they can get so wrapped up in what they do in business that they don't use those skills in how they show up at home with their wife, with their kids. Because you're right. Like, there's often a saying, right? The best personal development course you can ever do is start your own business or become a coach or what, you know, whatever it is. I used to believe that wholeheartedly. And then I had a relationship that was, was and is the hardest relationship I've ever had and also the most rewarding relationship I've ever had, right? And so I was like, well, actually, being in a really well growth type relationship can be the biggest personal development vehicle you've ever been. And then I'll then become a dad. And that becomes. So I was like, hold on, it's the trifecta is, if you're listening to this, I think you're in the trifecta. You're running a business. You may be married, maybe not, but you've been in a relationship at some point to end up with kids, and you've got kids. Like you're in the trifecta of, I think, the biggest personal growth vehicles that you can possibly go through. So if you were to kind of bring it down to.

These skills, like, what is the difference between, okay, you've developed these skills, but how do you actually ensure that you show up? Like, how are you making sure you show up at home? Maybe. What are some examples of things that you take from the business world that helps you show up better at home?

Yeah, yeah. I love where you're at with this. And you're right, it is a trifecta. It is a lot. I don't know if it's harder, but I think a lot of people think that parenting is going to be tough and some people don't, but they get surprises. There's going to be a lot of unexpected twists and turns. So to, to what you're saying, I really believe that, number one, congruency is everything. And so in order to have, I don't like to use the word have it all, you know what I mean? Because you can't have it all and nothing's perfect and all that kind of stuff. But you must be a person of your word. And if you promise to be there at dinner at 6 o' clock with your wife or your kids, but you got work, you better be there at 6 o'. Clock. The opposite is also true. If you promise the client they're going to turn up at 1 1pm, but then you're running behind with your family, you've got to say no to your family and say yes to your client. So don't double bind yourself and do two 1 o' clock bookings. You follow through on your commitments regardless of whether or not it's going to risk disappointing someone because you're always going to disappoint someone. But the person that follows through on the commitments is the person that can be most trusted. Because people only trust people who follow through on their word, even if their word may not be the thing that other people want. But for me, I've always been the person that follows through on what I said, even though it's not the ideal situation, but that at least every time I say it, my wife can trust me on it, my kids can trust me on it, and my clients can trust me on it and it, and it works both ways. So that's, that's the key. So it's not to be perfect, but it's just to do what you said you would do. The second thing is understand that there is, there is no balance. Like there's no balance. It's, it's a massive fallacy, it's a massive illusion. And so for example, I mean you know my wife's had three kids and so in the first 12 months of every one of those kids she didn't work. Everything was all about being a mom. Like there is this, life is completely out of balance. Health was number two. Relations number two. Friends were number three. Work was number four. Like everything else was a less priority. The first year of that child's life, it's full time momhood. And for me the first year of my business or even the first two years as an entrepreneur was all in on the business and that was number one priority. And I don't have any shame saying that, oh my gosh, I put my business first upon my kids, my family stuff and no, because understand that there is no such thing as balance, but there's seasons. And understand that if you going through the season then, then you can get through in the long term. But trying to balance everything is the fastest way to misery. And so understanding and being, accepting that no such thing as balance, whatever the chapter in you right now, go all in on it and be okay with it.

So and did you talk to your wife? Like how did you set that? Did you say to her hey babe, I'm starting this business and sorry, you're number two while I'm building this thing. Like how did that go down?

Well she's very, luckily she's very accepting, extremely accepting and trusting and trusting as well. Like I mean it's happening kind of happening right now. So. And I do it from a, I guess a big level saying the first two years going to be really busy but I also do it from a micro level as well. So I literally had the conversation a couple of days ago said babe, the next two weeks I am going to be head down, bum up, super focused, won't be present because we're doing like this book launch, you know and then after the book launch I got my three day event and so just, just being upfront about it and, and that's it. And so I like that, I like.

That and I can relate because I, I mean I'm in a stage right now with automation NC where I kind of took a big step back for about three years and then now we're like in the thick of it. Like I'm deep into building you know, version 10 of our platform and the vision of where we're going in an AI world. And the last few weeks I. I've been putting in a lot more hours than I used to and I'm. I notice I'm not as present and like, you know, and I probably could do better at communicating.

Yeah, well, you say, but also, like, never ask for permission. Ask for support, you know, it, like, and then just say, look, just need you support me with this. And I know it's going to be a bit harder with the kids and all that, but you just, you don't ask for permission. That's a dangerous road to go down. Yeah.

Interesting. And so, so, okay, so obviously realizing that you can't balance at all, that's an important, important thing and sticking to your word. And I'm really glad you said that because I think for men in particular, I think it's a really important thing that, you know, like, one of, one of the things that we used to do in our dadpreneur program is we do a broken promise audit, which was like, go through and find all the things that you've promised to your wife or your kids or people like what have you. That simple thing of, oh, yeah, I'll fix that, honey. And it's still not fixed. Go through and find all those things that you've broken your promise. And don't look for the applause. Just start rectifying all those broken promises where you can. And I think it's really important that often in business we can go, yep, this is my promise. But one of my favorite distinctions you made there, in case anyone missed it was.

Okay, you promised your family you're going to be there for dinner at 5 o'. Clock. Be there at 5 o'. Clock. But the same thing, if you promised your client you're going to be there at one, don't be running late because of something that's happening in family. That's something that I think I can tighten up a little bit. So I really appreciate that and resonate with that. So, obviously, these principles, and if you've got more, I would love to hear them, but these principles have served you well. Are these things that you've just intrinsically learned to. Did you learn from, you know, your childhood, was it modeled for you? Is it something that a coach taught you? Like, where did these principles you just shared with us come from?

It's really, it's a really good question. Like, I mean, and not many people have asked me this question too, so I'm really glad you're asking Kyle. So I don't know where the principle of just doing what you said you would do and following through on your word came from. I had to come from my parenting or upbringing somewhere. I just. I just can't pinpoint it. For me, it's always, yeah, I just. I've never understood why when people say something, they're going to do something and they don't do, I just. It just doesn't just kind of compute to me. I've always been the person, like, if I say I'm going to do it, then I do it. Otherwise, I just don't say I'm going to do it. Like, I'm like, I'm not going to do that, or I can't commit to that. I'm not afraid at not committing if I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to follow through on it for that person because I don't want to let people down. But the moment I commit, the moment I say yes, I very rarely, very rarely cancel. Like, you know, some. Some people. Some guys are flaky. Like, I don't know what the opposite of flaky is, but I'm definitely the opposite of flaky. Like, I'm Mr. Reliable.

You stick. Yeah, you stick to your Mr. Reliable. Stick to your word. You know, I know some programs will call that the mind of the warrior. Like, you know, your word is your bond.

It is.

It is just such important, and it clearly is really important to you. What I'm curious is you hold that for yourself, and you might get frustrated when others don't do that. Do you hold that same expectation to your wife, for example? Because I don't know how much you've done around the masculine and feminine energy. There's a difference there in. In this idea of your word is your bond.

Well, luckily, she's not flaky, otherwise we wouldn't be together. Like. Like, I just cannot. I cannot stand, you know, she's definitely not like that. Is she as extreme as me? Like, no, you got to follow through in your work. No, probably not. But she's definitely not like that. She's very, very dependable, very reliable. And so I don't. But when you say that, like, I mean, I used to get frustrated at people. Not, not so much my wife, but at people who. Who were not like that or not like me. Like, everyone's gonna get frustrated, someone that's not like them. You know what I mean? So. And because I never understood why someone would just be flaky or cancel all the time. Like, I've been best man at five weddings now. That's five bachelor parties. Five best man speeches, like, five times. Because, well, the number one feedback I get from my friends is, like, everything Richmond says he does. He's the most dependable, reliable person I know. And so that's one of the traits. And so I used to have that expectation on others. And I used to say to Penny all the time, like, I don't understand. Why are people like that? And she's like, you don't understand that? No one's like you. What do you mean, no one's like me? Everyone follows through in their word. No, they don't. But shouldn't everyone know they don't. They're not like you that I. When people say things, they just say it. They don't mean it, but you always do it. You know, really, isn't everyone like this? I just. And I finally understood or accepted that maybe not everyone's like me. And so now that makes my life a lot easier.

I love that. It's like, even though people might not intrinsically be like you, I think it is a standard that is worth working towards. Right. Like, I definitely. There are times that I know I dropped the ball, but it's something that I'm constantly working on. I think the word as a man in particular is so important to create safety. Like, what you talked about, like, that reliability for your friendship. Sure. But, like, most importantly to your wife and your kids, you need to show them safety. You need to teach. If you've got young boys, I think you should be teaching them that their word is so important. It creates safety for others around them. You've got girls. Like, this is what you should expect from the men that you might be, you know, planning to marry and have as a partner in the future. Like, I think it's just such an important thing of encouraging it. So I'm glad we've had this conversation is really what I'm saying, because I think if someone's listening to this and you've got. You can go, you know what? I've been that flaky guy. This is not judgment on you, but this is potentially a call to arms to go, hey, you can create a lot of safety for people in your world by being that dependable. Turn Richmond into your poster on your wall of like, am I. Am I being like Richmond right now? You know, take a quick screenshot and put him on your wall. Speaking of, I do have something on my wall that I got from Richmond. A one life, never settle. The your life in weeks thing. Years, years ago, you sent me that on Facebook, and it's printed on my wall. Good. It's a good thing. So for those who don't know, it's basically a little, little poster, a 3ish size with tiny little squares for every week in your life, up to around 90, I think it is. And you can color in a little square every week and you can just quickly glance and go, oh, look how far through my life I am.

I'm looking at mine right now, actually, just behind this scene. It's like, wow. Yeah, halfway, halfway. I'm 42 now, so.

Well, I'm. I turned 39 next Monday, so.

Mine'S getting pretty close to. There's a lot more black squares than I in my head think there is.

It's such a great tool.

Yeah, I love that. All right, so keeping our words really important, we've dived deep into that. I'm curious to know right now you're in a big growth mode and we will get to tiny challenge because I do want to unpack that. I think there's some value there that listeners, business owners, you're going to want to stick around to hear that while you're in this growth mode. Right now, you've clearly had a conversation with your wife about, hey, I'm going to be focused. Have you had that same conversation with your kids?

It's not. I think the number one role as a parent is what, apart from safety. I love the word safety. So making sure they feel safe, like, that's for sure. Like, I guess. So the next next part from safety is, you know, as, as a man providing and giving safety and shelter and all that kind of stuff. But the number one role as a dad is to ensure that your kids make empowering meanings from every event or situation that happens in their life. Every event or situation happens life that they make an empowering meaning from. And so it's not so much how much time do you spend with your kids or how much time do you not spend your kids or how much time do you see them or play with them or not play with them. It's what they make it mean. So I'll give you a real classic example. My parents split up when I was, you know, 10. They basically stopped seeing each other from when I was about 7 or 8 and then officially split up when I was 10. Then my dad wasn't living in Iceland anymore. And even when I was young, like my dad was immigrant or migrant, rather working seven days a week, had his business, couldn't speak English and they migrated from the Vietnam War. And so he just Worked so hard to, you know, provide for the family. And so I would only see him sparingly and he'd work at night. And so I rarely saw him when I was growing up. And then when they broke up, my mom was left with four boys on her own. And I only saw my dad once a year for pretty much 15 years. And so I rarely saw my dad. Like I. In the last 20 years, I think I've seen my dad less than a couple hundred times. You know? You know what I mean? And the crazy thing is.

I was okay with that.

And I spent more time with my mom. My mom raised us all on her own. And I grew up. And every kid has a resentment towards one parent growing up. There's one parent that always, always screwed you up. You know what I mean? And I had the resentment towards my mom, who raised us her whole life. And I had so much baggage with my mom that I had to clear through, you know, doing timeline, NLP therapy, all that kind of stuff. And here I am. My dad was never around. I have zero problems with my dad. I love my dad. I think he's funny, but sometimes he's a bit of an idiot. You know, he's like, you know, his dad is just dad. But with my mom, she was with us all the time, and I was the one that was rich with her. And. And I know that it's not just me that's. I know that so many kids, it's like. So what I'm trying to say is, like, you can spend all the time with your kids, but if they make a meaning out of that time you spent with them, saying, oh, they're with me, but they're not with me, or whatever meaning they make out of it, that's going to carry them for the rest of their life. So your job as a parent is not to. It's not about how much time you spend with them or lack of time or present or whatever it is. It's making sure you ensure that they make empowering meanings for everything that happens. So if I'm there, I want to make sure that they. What does it mean when dad is home? What does it mean when dad is away? What does it mean when dad is working? What does it mean when dad is in the office? What does it mean when Mommy and daddy are fighting? What does it mean when I'm on my phone and what does it mean when I am with them? What is it like? I want to make sure that they make a meaning that's empowering on every Single event. Because I don't want to assume that just because I'm with them, they're going to not have resentment towards that. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that's key.

That sounds like, I mean, I love that and fully resonate with that. It sounds like a beautiful thing. I think anyone listening or watching would be like, yeah, I want that. How do you actually do that though, in practice? Like, what does that look like? And if it's helpful, I can give you an example for my own life right now. My daughter, you know, for those who've been listening would know I've got a three year old and she's literally in the last week in particular, she's really gotten sad and tried to block the door. When daddy's going to work, she. It's like all of a sudden, no, Daddy, don't go, Daddy, don't go. And I've tried various different things, but I'm curious, like, because it pulls at your heartstrings. You're like, I've got some work stuff, I'm building these things. But I don't want it to take the meaning of going to work's more important than me, Daddy, like. So I'm curious whether you apply it to my situation or you take it from your own. How does someone like me, like someone else listening, do it?

Yeah, yeah, this is a great question. I had this kind of conversation with Penny the other day too. So be very cautious of the meaning you've already given it because they will naturally adopt the meaning that you've given it first. So step number one is make sure you've given that empowering meaning because they have no reference point. They're an empty slate, they're a blank canvas. And the meaning you've already given it meaning. Oh, I'm going to work. I feel guilty that I'm not with you and I'm just, I'm just a shit dad. Like, even if you don't say it, they can feel it. And now they're equating you going to work as being a shit dad or unpresent because they felt the meaning. You've given it yourself without them. Like, you know, because then they can read your energy. So you need to reframe it within yourself first. That's step number one. So for me, when I go away, I, and I used to, I, I used to feel guilty going away and when I used to be at work, feel guilty with them whenever them. I feel guilty not being at work. Like, there's the double buying guilt yeah. And that happened for probably three years. So I realized I was passing on my guilt to them and they were seeing it as a bad thing. When you think about it, why would they see it as a bad thing? They've got zero reference point. They got zero reference point. And I started my business. We have a luxury of working from home, and our kids, friends don't have dads that work from home. So growing up, they think daddy working from home is normal. And so when I'm away for three hours, even though I'm at home, they think I'm not spending. I don't. Like there was a time that they thought I wasn't spending time with them and they would feel. They wouldn't feel good about it because I wasn't feeling good about it without realizing that I'm actually home three times, four times more than any other dad on the planet. So again, they have no reference point. It's because I was feeling bad about it that I passed on the meaning to them. So, number one, check in with yourself on what are you making it mean? So I've stopped making it mean that I'm a bad dad, that I'm not present, that I'm ignoring them or whatever the story is. Yeah, I've made a mean for myself that I'm going out there to be a great example what a great human being is. And I'm helping people through my business and I'm buying back time by investing in time. So you got to invest in time to buy back time so I can spend more time with them. That's my story, and they can feel that. But I don't feel guilty anymore. Hence they don't feel like it's a problem. It's only a problem if you make it a problem. You know what I mean?

So you basically saying it's as simple as us clearing our own judgment on it, or is there an actual active conversation?

There is. There is. So. So number one, make sure I don't pass on my prejudgments of myself onto them. Number two, I do have a conversation. So, for example, I just got home from In America, did a couple of podcasts as well, and with Russell Brunson too. And then I was gone for seven days, which is long. Ish. And the kids, you know, even though I talked to them on WhatsApp video and stuff like that when I'm away, but when I got home, like, it was very clear, they miss daddy, they're all over me, and you know what I mean? And my second child Reagan, I said, hey, what do you think of Daddy being back? It's like, I really like you being back. I miss you, Daddy. Cool. And what do you think? So I ask questions. I don't want to jump to conclusions. And what did you think of Daddy gone for the last seven days? It's like, I like it better when you're at home. Cool. Okay, so then the next question is, what does it mean? What does it mean to you when Daddy's away?

So now, in a very neutral tone, what does it mean to you when Daddy's away? Now, this could go anywhere. And I could think, oh, my gosh, dad. She could say, daddy doesn't love me. Daddy's ignoring us. Daddy doesn't put us first. No, she didn't say that at all. She said, it just means you're working and you're helping people so you can spend more time with us. I'm like, whoa, that's great. You know, and it's. It's so good. And then I said, look, dad is going away in six weeks time for 10 days. You're going to. Not.

Not.

Are you going to be okay with that? Because I don't want to ask for permission. But, like, you know, what do you think of that? What do you think that might mean? It's like, you know what? That's okay, Daddy. Like, she's okay with it. She prefers me to be there, but she's okay with it because she understands a greater mission and she never feels like she's second. So. But again, and if she did say something like, daddy doesn't love me, or daddy doesn't, you know, we're not important to you. If she did say that, then I would have a sit down and help reframe her. And how did she come to that conclusion? And then I'll coach her through that, through what we learned as being a coach, you know, just a typical reframe conversation.

Yeah, I love that. And, you know, one of the thoughts that popped in my mind when you were sharing that is how often we as parents can create a prediction in our own mind as to why the kid is feeling a certain way. I'll give you an example. A daughter recently has started saying, like, I want to be a mummy one day. And we're like, that's a beautiful thing. You can be a mummy one day. But when we finally, there was one day, I think my wife asked the question, what does it mean when you're a mum, when you're a mama? And the reason she wants to be A mama is because mama puts things in the oven. She wants to be a mama because she wants to be able to put.

Things in the oven, right? Yeah.

That's how her mind is, the connection. I want to be a mummy one day so I can put things in the oven. But, like, you know, we're already going like, oh, that's so beautiful. She wants to have kids. She wants to, you know, like, that's not even in her awareness. Like, it's just, I want to put things in the oven. Oh, okay, right. Well, you'll be able to put things in the oven before you're a mama, honey.

Like, but you're right.

It's amazing.

It's amazing. Another example too, like, while on that topic. Sorry to interrupt, Cal. Like, I mean, so you know about assumptions and stuff. So I'm very cautious of, you know, if, like, the kid has a little fall or, or something like that, that, you know, how. Like when. When something happens and, and usually the parents or uncles or aunts, like, oh, are you, like, so quick to like, oh, you. Okay, like.

99.9 of the time, it's. It's not a problem. They just had a little fall, you know, and that instant reaction.

Lets them equate that falling is bad, failing is bad. It's shameful. It's going to get a reaction. It's going to get judgment because of the instant judgment from the people around you. And so because people are not scared of failing, they're scared of other people seeing them fail. Because of that type of parenting, it's guarantee, if no one saw you fail, you would try everything, you would not care, and you would keep on trying. It's because people are scared of other people seeing them fail. That's why they don't try. So there is no such thing as a fear of failure. There's only the fear of other people seeing you fail. If you fail and you were home alone, you wouldn't care. You wouldn't feel any embarrassment because there's no one there. The embarrassment comes from the reaction of parents. Oh, oh, you okay? Jumping so quickly. So anytime our kids have a little fallout, whatever it is, or a little fat whatever, like a stack, we let them react, we don't react. And 99.9 of time, they just get up and get on with it. And so now we're teaching them that there's no, there's no fear of seeing other people seeing them fail, because we're not jumping to a conclusion that that's a bad thing, because that's Our. That's our judgment. Oh, my gosh. Falling is a bad thing. No, I've been taught me that. But I don't want to teach them that falling is a bad thing. I want to teach them falling is a part of life. You know what I mean? So, yeah, Yeah.

I always reminded of that scene from Batman Begins, the Christopher Nolan films. He's like, why do we fall, Bruce? So we can pick ourselves back up again. Like, I'm always think of that, and I think of that, like, as a message for my daughter, you know, like, we have. We watch a bit of Gabby's Dollhouse every now and then. We're not a lot. Don't do a lot of screens, but in Gabby's Dollhouse, there's. There's a song of oopsie, I made a mistake, and it's okay. And like, again, like, anytime something's like, oh, no, this thing. Oh, oopsie, we made a mistake and it's okay. Like, what did we learn from it? And so fully agree, like, anything we can do to try to create those empowering meanings. I think it would be really interesting to talk on something that I've witnessed in, you know, that your journey over time as well is for a long time, like, I knew you, but I didn't know much. Like, Penny was kind of in the background, I guess, a little bit. Like, I didn't see it. And then she really seems to be stepping into her power a lot recently, too. So I'm curious to understand, like, that dynamic of growth, because I know from. For many couples, it can often feel like one person's growing, the other one's not, or at different speeds, maybe. Like, it's not that you're not growing, but different speeds or in different. And so I'm curious if you've got any thoughts around for other couples in particular, men who might be going through that, who might feel like they're growing, but their wives not. Or maybe they're feeling like the wives knocking on the door, saying, hey, buddy, you need to grow a bit more. And that's frustrating them, too. Any thoughts on that?

Yes, yes, yes. Well, you'd never grow at the same rate. That is an illusion, and I don't think that's even possible. How could two people grow at the exact same. At the exact same rate? Like, I mean, that's not going to happen. Even, you know, identical twins looks that don't, you know, don't mature at the same rate and stuff like that. So you never grow the same rate. So step number One in, in this relationship is number one ultimate outcome is do I see myself growing old with this person? This is the person I want to be on the deathbed at 90 years old with. Is it like when there's no more kids and they're all left home and it's just us two for the rest of our lives? Like, is that the person is. And the answer is yes, 100%. Like, she's my person. If I get sick, I have no doubt that she's going to look after me and vice versa. If she gets sick, I have no doubt I'm going to look after her. Like I, that's the person I want to look after and person I want to look after me. So long term perspective, you know, 50, 60, 70 years down the track, that's the person. And then once you know that and you have anchored that into the future, then understand that there's seasons where you're going to outgrow them and the seasons where they outgrow you. And I've had seasons where I needed to take a lead because I was going backwards in my life. And obviously on social media, now I've said seasons where I'm going further ahead. And now I just need to lead and have her follow the growth journey as well. But understand that removing the expectation that we need to grow at the same rate or very similar times, or I need to be growing and she has to be keeping up. Like she might be going backwards enough, that's okay because I know there's going to be season where she's growing fast and she hits the fan with my, my business or my life or whatever that case may be, then I need her support and I need to take a lead. And it's, it's kind of like this, you know, boom, boom, boom. And at the end, we're not both 90 years old and we're here together because we decided to kind of do it together. So that's, that's my take on it.

Yeah, I love that. Like, the way I think about it too is, you know, it all comes down to what do you define growth? Right? Like if your partner is facing into some of their own mental internal demons or challenges, right. They're not entrepreneurial, they're growing. You know, they might be growing in how they relate or in growing and shedding some trauma and some healing and whatever needs to do, while you might be growing in an area of like financial and wealth and whatever else. And then probably there's a flip side, especially men listening and watching for many of you, you overemphasize your growth in business. And what you now need to do is actually start looking in the mirror and looking at, well, how am I from an attachment style point of view, how am I showing up? What from my childhood, am I bringing in how I parent or in how I'm showing up in the relationship, that maybe she's put that energy into the relationship and you haven't and now it's your turn and maybe she's now learning more around other areas. So I think as well as not only you're growing it different rates, you might still be all growing just in different areas. And if you're judging it from your lens of well, she should be growing in this way, then you're gonna feel resentful and that's. That becomes a very poisonous thing in a relationship. So I like your idea of just anchoring the future.

Yeah. Remove expectation of this is the person.

This is my person. I'm anchoring that as a future and we're heading in that direction. I think that's really cool. Really?

Yeah.

Nothing matters. Like, I mean, long term perspective, you stretch things out. Long term horizon, there's no problem. You know, there's never any problem. Problems only exist in, in a magnified world. You know what I mean? So everything you look back on at some point in time, you look back and say, yeah, I kind of probably over dramatize that everything. Like, I mean, you know, I hope.

You wrote that down. Listener or viewer. That was a little wisdom nugget right there. There's no real problems when you magnify out. Like when you expand out, zoom out far enough and over a longer time there. It's only when you're focusing really closely does it feel like the end of the world. That comes true in business relationships. Your own momentum, depression, all those things if you just focused in a small little world. So write that one down and it's a good transitionary. Because I really want to. I've been loving this conversation, man. Like I think that we could end it now and people would go, this was shit hot. But I want to leave some business nuggets too, because you have written this incredible book, you've created this thing now, this movement. I mean literally today we're recording it and it's. When this comes out, it'll. You've been launched for a little while, but like you've just launched this thing and it's called the tiny challenge, right? It's a tiny challenge. A reminder. Tinychallenge book.com for those with video, he's just held it up.

Talk to us about, like, how did this tiny challenge even come about? Right. Like, for people who. And be aware that there are some people listening who are not from our online marketing world and probably don't even know what the hell a challenge is.

Yeah, yeah, I gotcha. Gotcha. Cool. So when you're. I know. It's like brick and mortar. How they acquire customers is so different. You know, open a shop on a street front and hopefully there's foot traffic and maybe run some billboard ads. You know what I mean? It's very different. And you look at McDonald's Market, it's so different. Brick and mortar, so different. Restaurants are so different. Every business, everything. But the one common denominator of every single business is they must have a vehicle to attract customers. Whether you're in a shopping center and you're relying on foot traffic from the shopping center, whether you're on a streetfront and you're on foot traffic, cars. Whether you're online and you're relying on traffic from people jumping on social media or YouTube or whatever it is, there has to be a way to get traffic. You can't just guess. You can't just hope and pray. You can't just open up a website and launch the website and tomorrow you got customers. You can't just launch your offer or your sales product or your E. Com or anything on a site. And now you're making money while you sleep. You must find a way to get traffic to your business, whether it's brick and mortar online, whatever it is. And so in the online space primarily, here are some of the ways where you can get eyeballs onto your business. So you generally, everyone knows content marketing is a thing. So you post content, hopefully you go viral, you build your following, People start to know like and trust you, and then from that content you can transition into some sort of offer, and that's how you start to see your products and services. Now, if you're not into content marketing, online space, you can run ads. You can definitely run ads. And now you're paying Mark Zuckerberg some money and it pushes the ad up to. In front of people and they have no choice, but they have to see. And then they see an ad. They click on your thing or your funnel or your page, and then you have your offer and then that's how you sell more stuff online. So fundamentally, that's kind of the principle there. Now, in the online space, there's so much skepticism. It's not really Regulated. There's a lot of scammers. If you order something online, whether it's a physical product or an info product, which is the coaching spaces, info, you really don't know what you're getting. Whereas you go to a shop and you buy bag, you look at the bag, you know what you're getting, you can touch it. But info products and online, yeah, you can touch it. Like it's, it's a very different experience buying online. And so I mean I bought, I bought this charger recently, this power pack, you know, travel power pack where you charge your phone. And no joke on the picture, it was like this tiny, tiny size like this. And I thought, that's perfect. That's exactly what I need. I don't want anything big, I want something portable. And I got it. And no joke, it was like bigger than the palm of my hand. It just, they falsified the picture. It was thick, it was heavy and I had to fight for a refund. It was only 20 bucks, but that wasn't right. And so I got scammed on reputable site with ebay. And it's just, and that's happening right now.

So it's only going to get worse with AI where now you can like, you know, create images that look like anything and videos that look like anything.

It's crazy. So, and people know. I mean, here I just, I just met like Tony Robbins and. No, you didn't. That's A.I. you know what I mean? So, so it's so skeptical online and trust is so hard to establish online because of those reasons. And so typically when you're selling something online, you need, you can't just sell it directly to your products and services. You need to have a vehicle that builds trust. Then you can sell your stuff because skepticism is so high. And so vehicles to build trust could be like a webinar. So you do a two hour webinar, build trust. They come on, on zoom, whatever it is, you present who you are, what you do problem, you solve some testimonials. And by the way, at the end of the webinar, they trust you because they sat with you for two hours. Now they know you're legit, then they can buy your stuff. So you can do a webinar, you can do a workshop, you can do, can do like a two day event, you can do like a podcast like we're doing here. Like we do a podcast and someone listens this and watch it. Oh, you know what, Kyle is legit. And they watched you for two, three four or five hours or they watched it multiple and okay, now they trust you. And if you present your thing, they can buy because this is all online. So you need a vehicle to build trust. That's step number one in the online space. In the online space, people give you, this is important sentence. People give you their time before they give you their money, period. Not in the, when you go to a Westfield shopping center, you can just walk in and buy a shaver. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's not like that online. You must have a vehicle where people can give you their time before they give you the money. So that's why webinars work, that's why workshops work, that's why virtual events work. That's why challenges, which is like, you know, health challenges, like a five day, five pound challenge. But you have an online challenge which you can work with someone for five days and they do like a five day business challenge. And usually it's in the group setting, there's hundreds of people in there and at the end you trust them and then you buy the thing. So it leads me to say, well, what is a tiny challenge? So the problem with every vehicle to build trust is if you're just starting out and you have not made your first $100,000 yet and you wanted to run say a, a podcast like this and you wanted to launch it and that's a way to get leads, it's very hard to get your foot off the ground because you don't have a list, you don't have a way of marketing out to a big crowd. It'll take you probably a very long time before you build up your first a thousand followers and then a long time before you get clarity on your offer to get, to even monetize it. And then you might say, okay, well, I'll try a webinar. Okay, so you try a webinar. And number one, how. Where are you going to find a hundred people to go to your webinar yet alone? A hundred people. You register. You know that 10% only show up. So only 10%, only 10 people will show up. How do you entertain them for two hours without them dropping out? How do you learn how to speak one to many. Now you have to learn the tech involved with running a webinar. Now you go to a workshop, oh my gosh, now it's so overwhelming. And then how do you present an offer to 20 people at the same time? What's the landing page going to look like? What's the funnel look like? The tech is crazy. And you're a tech guy, right? And you understand that's why you use.

Automation agency to get your tech done.

Automation agency. And you know, that big, like, I mean, you know, even advanced entrepreneurs hate tech.

You think of a beginner.

Yeah.

Adding tech into everything.

Because every vehicle to build trust requires you understand tech. And so I notice that. And you know, because we help beginner coaches get clients. And I've just been obsessed with making things easier and simpler for our students to get clients. And I was running group challenges and they were working for us. But I knew tech. I had a team. I know how to speak, I knew how to sell one to many. I knew how to get people into a room. I knew how to entertain them five days straight. But then when I started teaching my clients, they were failing big time because they didn't have all the skills that I had to make it work. Even though it worked, but they didn't have the skills. So I thought to myself, I thought, well, what if you just remove your ego? Funny, you talk about ego, right? And I said, this is about four years ago. You know, when you're starting out, like, the best way to build trust is to run a five day challenge. It makes sense. The more time they spend with you, the more trust you have with them. So five day challenge is like, you know, five days, five calls, one hour each. And there's so much trust built at the end of it. But rather than trying to fill it up with 100 people, 200 people, a thousand people, or even 10 people, do it one on one.

One on one. And that's what a tiny challenge is. It's a one on one challenge. And what's the benefit of one on one challenge? Zero tech. Why you can just pick up your phone and call them. You don't even need Zoom. What's the other benefit? You don't need a list because you just have to find one person at a time. You don't need huge engagement in content. If you put out a story or a real and you get one like, boom, you got your first tiny challenge. You don't need to launch it with the launch. It's like when you do a webinar. It's like, should I do it 1 o', clock, 12 o', clock, 8 o', clock, 8pm? What about Easter? Long weekend? What about July 4th? What about Christmas? Oh my gosh. What about school holidays? I'm just stressed. I'm, I don't know where to start. Boom, boom. And then you have to learn how to speak one too many. It's like, no, it's only challenge. You don't have to do that because in a tiny challenge, you can start any time because it's five calls, one on one, agreed with the person you're doing it on. And it doesn't have to be the same time. Every single day could be different times. Because the ultimate flexibility, perfect if you're a mom of three, perfect if you're balancing multiple jobs, perfect. You've got multiple responsibilities. There is no launch date. You don't have to worry about no one showing up, because everybody shows up to a tiny challenge because it's one on one. It's a crazy framework to get started. It also allows you when you're getting started. Most coaches are not clear on their niche. They're not clear on their messaging. They're not clear in their offer. And the tiny challenge framework allows them the clarity on who they want to serve in a very safe way because they. I could coach corporate mums. I also coach single moms. I could also coach women of abuse. I don't know which one to coach. Richmond. I say do a tiny challenge on each of them. And I guarantee after each one of those, you know who you're meant to serve. Rich, I don't know what to offer. I guarantee at the end of your tiny challenge, they'll tell you everything that they want, all the problems they have, all the frustration they have. And you just ask them, hey, if I was to present you a $2,000 offer to work with me for the next six months, what would you like in it that would make you say yes? So they'll tell you what they want to buy. And suddenly you got your offer validated, you got your messaging validated. Everything is, this is the only framework that allows you to earn while you learn without a list, without tech, without learning to speak, without all the complications of anything. And this is why. This is why Russell Brunson fall in the book, this is why pretty much every industry lead is saying, this is the future of marketing. This is the future of getting started, because it takes the least skill, the least amount of friction, and it's the least overwhelmed, least stress. And anyone can get started right now, today. That's tiny challenge.

I love it, man. And the main thought in my mind is like, you know, I'm just getting started. This makes so much sense because those newbies, as you say, like, tech is overwhelming, probably haven't actually found product market fit yet, don't fully understand. Like, I even went through this when I was launching dadpreneur, which listeners I haven't actually informed most of you, but I no longer run that as a coaching program anymore. I'm focused back 100% on automation. But part of the reason was, is that I never quite nailed our message to market quite where I needed it to be. And then it became a distraction for me. But like I could see that if I'd done something like this tiny challenge, it would have helped me validate that probably get my messaging better, faster. And it takes, I can see that it takes that pressure off of, oh, I've got to run ads, I got to do this to get like 20 people. Or what if I, what if I say I'm running this webinar or this offer? Like, even if you're selling from Google Docs, those who listen and follow, we've got people who, previous guests on this show who teach about selling with Google Docs and even that Google Doc might be, it's a group offer. And if only one person says yes, which I've had happen to me, by the way, all of a sudden you're like, oh, is it worth running this thing? And I don't know, you can take all that pressure out. I really like that. Here's my main question to you, Richmond though, if I'm already doing a million dollars plus in business, I'm an established business, I've been doing this a long time. Why should I actually pay attention to this? Like this sounds like I don't even need it.

This is crazy. I wasn't sure what were you going to ask, but I'm glad you asked this one because Russell Brunson, the goat of Marketing, owner of ClickFunnels billion dollar company, you're probably already using ClickFunnels. I don't know who most of your viewers are probably using ClickFunnels and they have in the past, right? For the book. And he ran two tiny challenges and so he's not even on a million. I mean, he's running a nine figure company, you know what I mean? And because after like I told him about it and he had me on his podcast, he was so blown away by it because he knew that this will solve the problem to the masses, which is making your first 10, 20, 30, even $100,000 online. It's going to solve every problem of every marketing vehicle out there. And so it's so fascinating. It was so addicted to it. He's like, he said like, is it free or is it paid? And I said, well, when you're starting out, you probably do a free version. Like when you do a webinar, you do it free. When you do a masterclass, you do it free. When you releasing a podcast, you do it for free. Like, you know what I mean? Like why would you want to charge if you're starting out? Like, that's just silly. The reason why people want to charge is to weed out time wasters, which I totally get. So if you're a beginner and you want to charge, you just charge a hundred dollars, fully refundable. They get it at the end of the five days. So if you want to do that, you can. But what if you're advanced? Like what you're saying 7 figure entrepreneur or Russell Brunson, then you can do a tiny challenge. Five days, five calls, five consecutive days and you charge for it. So he did a paid tiny challenge. He charged $100,000 for it. And at the end of it he was going to pitch a 250k offer which he decided not to because he's like, I'm pretty happy with 100k, I just don't want to do any more work.

So it's supposed to be like, if I'm understanding it correctly, it's like for 100k, you just basically did, assuming you followed the five one hour calls, like it was five hours of consulting for 100 grand kind of. Kind of deal.

Exactly. But done in a five day challenge. Yeah, it's far rather than, you know, five calls over five weeks or five months or blah blah. It's like no. With quick result, fast. And your consumer wants that. Why would they want five calls over five weeks or five calls over five months? You want to get five course over five days and get the result in a much shorter amount of time. And it's a challenge. There's accountability, there's homework. So there's a paid tiny challenge. So you can do that for a very high level. And if you want to sell, if you got $100,000 coaching offer and you're thinking, how do I sell my hundred thousand dollar coaching offer or do a paid tiny challenge? Do a tiny challenge for like 2 or 3000 at the end of it. Sell 100k offer. Yeah, like that's, that's how you.

This to me this is, you know, obviously coaching is your world and how we met, but I know that we've got people listening who, you know, you're an IT service provider, you're a lawyer, you're a real estate agent. Like this I can see how this could apply to you. Right. Like if you're an IT company you can have a five day challenge around a specific topic which then leads into services. Right. It could be implementation. Service can be also and I'm sure in the book you go into various different examples of how do you take a challenge and actually then turn them into a back end customer. But this is a great, just a super simple lead gen. Like if you go to BNI groups you can be like I'm running a, you know, I'm running, running this five day challenge and I'm looking for people who X. Right. If you're, if you're in the BNI world, if you're. So this is not just online is what I'm really trying to say is if you've listened to this and go 100% but I'm not an online business space. Yeah, you can do it. It's your own business. You can adapt this. So I love it man. I love what you're putting together. And so they can get the book@tinychallengebook.com Yep. Is there anything else? If they want to go deeper on Tiny Challenge, is that the best place to start or is there other things they should check out?

Yeah, well that, that's definitely best place to start and well, pretty sure what the book is free too. It's. You can get the physical copy for free@tinychallengebook.com that's step number one. I want to make this accessible to everyone. I believe that every single person that's going to become an entrepreneur, particularly online or not, but particularly online, this will be the staple book for them to make the first hundred K because it is a starting point that requires zero skill, zero friction, zero following. There is no other framework that allows you to get started as quickly as a Tiny Challenge. That's why we made it free. You got to pay 10 bucks for shipping. That's it. It's, that's, that's the main thing. So, but that's the let's pay start and on there, you know, we will, on that site we will list our upcoming. If we're doing like a three hour training, we'll let you know on that site. It's going to be the same site. It's Tiny Challenge book. Will it, you know, we're doing a three hour training or anything like that. And also we'll also let you know as well because people like, okay, you know, it's good reading a book and there's going to be an audio version. But I Want to see you do one, Richmond. But the only way to see me do one is to be the person I'm doing it on. And obviously doing a tiny challenge is not scalable. Like, I mean, you can make a lot of money, but it's one on one. What if I told you that we have cracked the code on how to scale one on one coaching? 100 years of coaching, no one has ever been crack the code. Because we know one on one coaching gives you the deepest transformation. It's one on one. It's like you can't beat it really when you think about it. The only way to transition from one on one is go to one to many and you lose out on that intimacy. And so what I've been doing in the last 12 months is I run tiny challenges. It's one on one with me. Five days, I present an irresistible offer to the person I'm running it to. Like, normally it might be 25,000 to get those five calls, but only charge say 5,000 on the caveat that that person lets me have what I call shadow seats. So I if they give me permission to let people into the same zoom room to watch me coach that person one on one for the five days. So I'm not doing group coaching. I'm only coaching that person one on one. They're going to see me coaching someone one on one and providing transformation. So I'm basically demonstrating my competency. And so they sit in and watch. At the end of that 45 minute call, I'll break down exactly what I did, how I did it, and then they can ask some questions. So the last one we did, I had 100 people in a shadow seat to watch me do a tiny challenge. And at the end of your tiny challenge, you present an offer. And I wasn't just presenting an offer to one person, I presented it to 100.

Yeah.

And that's how I scout my coaching. That tiny challenge went to 200, 290,000. It was crazy.

That's cool. That's powerful. It's like a hot seat webinar. That's everyone's. Yes, some person, one person's paid to be the hot seat and one person. Other people have paid to be the watching. I love it. It's amazing. Richmond, this is incredible. If you are listening, like, I'm definitely going to make sure I devour everything in this book and look at how we can apply it both to automation, NC and also the private consulting stuff that I do. I think this is just a brilliant way that could Frame up the private consulting I do in a cleaner way of like, hey, I'll do it for five days. That could be really, really cool. I want to leave us with one question that I've started asking guests right at the end. And this is with everything you've Learned in your 42 years on this planet, right? And being a dad who runs his own business, if there was one thing that you wish other dads who ran their own business could know, just one piece of advice you would give them, what would it be?

Oh, such a good question. Okay. Okay. It kind of relates to business and parenting. I think this is a great one. It's to have a great tomorrow, you must be present today. To have a great tomorrow, be present today. And that's from your intimate relationship with your wife, your parenting. Because as entrepreneurs, we are so future focused. As achievers, we are so future focused. And only way to create the future is if you know what you need to do today. And so being present today means knowing that, yes, tomorrow's going to come and you want to plan and set goals and all that kind of stuff, but what do I need to do right now for my kids, for my family, for my business? And that room is all overwhelmed. Overwhelm only happens when you're looking too far ahead into all the things you have to do without looking at what I just have to do right now. Because what I do right now determines on how tomorrow is going to become. So I'll say that again. To have a great. What is it? To have a better future or great future, you must be present today.

That's powerful. That's super powerful. And I think if we overlay that with what you shared earlier about the idea of the understanding that the have it all, it comes in waves and balances. And, you know, a coach of mine years ago said something really profound. I remember I said, I didn't feel present today. And she says, well, present to what? And the idea that we are present in all the times, but what are we present to? Are we present to the thoughts in our mind about the future, or are we present to our kids? Are we present to the. So I think, you know, I think that there's. If we overlay that of, like, we have to be present today for a better tomorrow. I love that. And then I extrapolate from that, that being aware that we get to choose what we're present to in every moment, and that's a powerful thing. Combine those two together. There's keys to the kingdom right there. Richmond, dude. I've loved this conversation. We unpacked parenting relationships like I think like those key principles at the beginning. Like if you've already forgotten them, go back and re listen to even just the first five, ten minutes of this episode. Because those key principles, if you walk away with nothing else except taking away those, that's going to change the trajectory of your life. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. Plus we also mentioned the link to get the book tinychallengebook.com make sure you check it out. Richmond it's been an absolute honor and privilege time for us to get on with everything else in our lives to our dear listeners and viewers. Until next time. Keep up the journey. Appreciate you hey fellow dadpreneur, thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you've missed something said on today's episode, you can find transcripts, links and other notes from today's episode as well as all other episodes over at Rising Show. That's dot show, not dot com, so head over to Rising show to get all the information that you need.

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