How Richmond Dinh Built a 7-Figure Coaching Business Without Ads

I used to be an optometrist, yes, for 10 years. And so it was something I was not happy with or not fulfilled in for a very long time. I knew I didn't want to do it forever. Started out as a life coach, and in the first two years, made half a million dollars organically. No ads. The best way to make your parents proud is for you to be happy. Authenticity is. Is a strength. Your superpower is your authenticity. To be remembered tomorrow, you must be present today.

Welcome to the Fearless Founders Podcast. Today I have Richmond Din. He is the founder of the Tiny Challenge, but he is also a former optometrist, an amazing girl, dad, and husband, and overall someone who I am so excited to interview because he has done a new take on challenges that will change the game for you. So thank you for being here, Richmond.

Oh, thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure. I've been. I love Boise. Every time I come to Boise, it's just the most underrated, unassuming town on the planet. So, yeah, if you haven't been to Boise, come to Boise.

It really is. This is one of the few that I'm actually doing in my hometown. So I'm excited to have you. Okay, so let's start with you. So you are a former optometrist. What is. How did you get into this world? Like, did you just find it by accident? How did you become? Richmond?

Wow. What a question. I love. How did I become wow. Yeah. All right. This is the best podcast interview ever to date, right? That's the best question I've ever had. How did I come? Richard? Well, I think it's a process of becoming who I am right now. Ever increasing journey. But I used to be an optometrist. Yes, for 10 years. Did 20,000 eye tests. But most, like most people who are in the health profession, whether a dentist, optometrist, whatever, it's not what they want to do. I don't think anyone, and I'm sorry if that's you, but grows up saying, I want to become an optometrist when I grow up or I want to become a dentist. It's not a job that people aspire to want to become. So it's my parents, and that's what I did to make them proud, you know, the cultural upbringing. And so it was something I was not happy with or not fulfilled in for a very long time. I knew I didn't want to do forever, but I wanted to just do it to make them happy, make good money, invest in property. And after doing it for 10 years, I'd get out and figure out what my real purpose is. And that was a goal from the beginning. But what made it go faster was that I lost a lot of money in the property market because I invested well in my 20s and lost pretty much everything, plus more, over $1.2 million after buying 13 properties. And the next three I bought, I over leveraged, did all the wrong things, but that allowed me to find coaching and personal development and trying to figure out why I'm a failure and what my life is about. And, you know, you go through all that kind of stuff, and that led me down the path of this whole personal development journey. I got a life coach because my. I thought my life was a mess. And from that, being immersed in that industry, that's how I fell in love with coaching. And I became a life coach after as an optometrist and then now just helping other life coaches and, you know, coaches start their business because we did well in the first two years.

Okay, so let's backtrack a little. You, you became an optometrist, you invested money into real estate. While you're doing that, about 10 years into this, you've been investing over those years with that money, and then you lost it all.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're basically like at square one of like, just keep building a nest egg or look for something else.

Correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

So then did you leave optometry to go find something else or did you continue to do it while you looked for the coaches?

Two years. I transitioned over two years.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So that was a transition. It was a. It was the biggest blessing in hindsight. And that's. I think that's like most problems, you can't see how it's going to be a blessing in your life, and you can't see how it's happening for you at the time. But it happened for me because I wouldn't have discovered this whole coaching space and entrepreneurial space. It would have been the trigger for me to do what I wanted and figure out my life. And if that didn't happen, if I was successful in property, I would have kept being an optometrist. I think so.

Which is.

Yeah.

Silver lining. How was that being a parent? Because you have your girl, dad, you have three little girls. And I think sometimes. Right. A lot of times when we're younger, we think we can take more risks. You have a wife and a family. What was that like? And how was your wife during that process?

I Believe. And my first. My first coach taught me this. I believe that the best personal development program you can ever do is actually getting into business. Like, you will learn more about yourself. Being an entrepreneur, they never, like, you know, like getting. Facing rejection, having to figure out problems, problems that never stop. And so you learn more about yourself. But that has made me a better father. And so to your question about parenting, the best. And this is an unspoken gift, I guess. You know, being a dad, being an entrepreneur has really helped me being a dad. Because now I can teach them to fail forward, reframe the meaning of failure, going for their dreams, thinking bigger, spending time with the right people, understanding that it's never a no unless you give up. Like, all those things has definitely 100% made me a better father. For sure. Better husband, too.

Yeah. Your wife's amazing, by the way.

She loves you, by the way.

So I just. I think she's such an incredible woman. And like, I love how you guys love each other. It's pretty special. So, yeah, now you were saying you went and became an optometrist to. For your parents. So then I just want people to. Because I know a lot of times when we hit failure, right, we're just like, oh, it was a failure, but it's a big chapter of our life. How did they take it and how did they do it? The transition?

Well, my dad still doesn't understand why I change. He still doesn't approve. This is eight years into being a coach. Because in Vietnamese, he's like, he doesn't understand what coaching is. And so I try to explain to him, like, what's coaching? And the best explanation I can give him is coaching's kind of like teaching because, you know, the translation's a bit funny. And he's like, you became a teacher. You went from optom to teacher. Like, he thinks I'm a teacher. And kind of in some ways we are. You know, we're speaking on stage and all that kind of stuff, and it's like, do you make good money? You know? And like, why. Why did you have a dentist? He's like, you should have became a dentist or a doctor, not a teacher.

Yeah.

And he still says it to this day.

He still hasn't quite clicked.

No, no. I think he'll say it for the rest of his life. I mean, he's old school. But my job is not to convincing. I. I believe that the best way to make your parents proud is for you to be happy. And even though they don't approve of what you Do. But if they. I think parents can feel if you're fulfilled, they just know it. And so I. I believe he's really happy and proud, even though he doesn't really understand what I do, because he can see that I'm a different person.

Yeah.

Yeah. And Mum. Oh. Mom sadly passed away two weeks after I transitioned. Oh. So she doesn't see any of this, you know?

Well, not from Earth.

Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. And so I credit everything I built to her. It was the promise I made to her when she passed that I would go all in on my dreams.

Wow. Well, I'm sure she's looking down very proud of you. Because I think as parents, that's what we want for our kids.

Yeah.

Even though there are things we do that to society, we're thinking they're making us proud. Ultimately, I want my daughters to wake up and be like, I'm living a fulfilled life and I'm going after what I really want.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. So tell me about your coaching. What kind of coaching do you do? What did you create and what was that transition like?

Started out as a life coach, and in the first years made half a million dollars organically. No ads. I was just kind of just doing what I thought was right. And then people started saying, like, how are you getting life coaching clients? Apparently it's the hardest niche to get clients in because it's not even a niche. You know what I mean?

Yeah. No, that's actually very impressive. I'm like, how?

Well, I.

Never thought about how I was doing it. It was just basically connection content. Like, I've made a big effort to anyone who liked my post. I created a relationship with them online via DM back then, and I still there today. And. And just really, I never saw people as leads or clients. I just saw people as people who are just liking my stuff. And so I created relationships really well online back then. And every time I presented my offer, like, people like, I guess, I don't know, looking back, I wasn't really good at sales, but, you know, but for whatever reason, it worked, I think. And it's kind of come full circle. Right. Authenticity is. Is a strength. And I mean, I think in the last five years, it's kind of run away, but now it's coming back. And yesterday we had. What's her name? Her name was. Forget her name. But she's. She's a Russell brought on, and she does a billion views a month. And then she talked about, your superpower. Is your authenticity and she's bringing authenticity back. And. And so I. That's. That's what I attributed to when I started out. And then every coach said, I want to learn how you're doing it. And then I kind of reverse engineered the process. And that's how I started teaching life coaches on how to get clients online. And the last six years has been more of the business coaching side and helping the hardest niche on the planet get clients without ads.

Wow.

Yeah.

I think to go back, you said you weren't good at sales or you aren't good at sales, but it sounds like you were good at relationships, and that's ultimately all sales is.

Yeah, right.

If you. But when you do it authentically and you're not doing it to take advantage or to get something out of them, then they want to work with you.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I think that's everything right there. That's the secret sauce, all the real relationships and then authenticity, because we have lost a lot of that.

Yeah.

And you can feel it with people. You know, that's. It's. It's like the reason that. Have you ever met someone and you, like, love them online, but then you meet them in person and they're a totally different person?

You know, my dating days have been. I've been with Penny for 20 years.

Okay. I wasn't meaning dating. I meant like your hero right here.

Our hero. Okay.

I've asked an online dating for 24 hours twice, and it. Both times I was like, I cannot do this.

Yeah. Oh, so many times. And Russell keeps on saying, like, you know, never meet heroes because they're not the same as they are online. And you. Then you end up not liking them and all that kind of stuff. And I've met a few people like that, but fortunately for most of the heroes I've met, they are. They are who they are. Like, 100%. They are who they are. Like, Russell is definitely who he is.

Like, 100% to the core.

Yeah.

That's one of the reasons I think I love him the most.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. So he was a big catalyst for you. Correct. In this world.

Massive. I would say, particularly in the last three or four years. The biggest catalyst I was watching him online, and during COVID the only way I could consume was online because Australia had like, the worst lockdowns ever. And I went to final hacking live virtual. And that's when I kind of, you know, firstly, like, experienced something longer form from. From Russell. Otherwise I've been seeing bits and pieces of him and it's a funny story. It's a funny story. I don't think I've shared this story ever. When I watched Fauna hacking live virtual in 2021 and we were still in lockdown, otherwise I would have flown to watch it, I saw these speakers come up on stage. And maybe the. The bad side of me was the ego side was thinking, like, they're not that. Like, they're not like the best speakers, but they're good. And I thought, like, from a competency level, I thought, I think I'm just as good as they are on stage. And I thought, well, how come they're on there and I'm not? And I asked myself that question because they're clearly not 10 times better than what I felt like I was. And so that's when I felt the belief that, well, if they can get on fhl, then surely I can do it. And that's when I made a mission that I. For me to do that, I just need to be close to Russell as much as possible. And that's when I joined inner circle. And obviously last year, spoke at FHL and did the roundtable this year. And all from that one, seeing that one thing of, if they can do it, like, why can't I do it? You know?

And that belief in yourself that you could do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Other people see, and they're like, ah, not good enough, you know?

Yeah, well. And I just would like to really replay this part back. You saw it, you said I could be on that stage. And you were just on that stage.

Yes.

You spoke at the final fhl.

Yes.

Which is incredible.

Yes.

And you've written a book now and you've been on his podcast. And you also realize that proximity is power.

I live and breathe that. Yeah. I call that. The eighth wonder is who you spend time with. It's this invisible force that shapes everything. Your identity, your values, what you eat, what you wear, what you think, what you feel. Focus on what you don't. Focus on this force that is stronger than gravity. It's called the eighth wonder. It's your proximity. It's who you're spending time with, period. And so that's what. That's what I teach my clients. Like, who. Who's in your eighth wonder? Cause that's the force that shapes everything.

How do you help people decide who should be in their eighth wonder?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I go from the lens of always giving people the benefit of doubt, but obviously, if they've got a result that you're looking towards. So two things. Number one, a result that you want in your life that you don't currently have. Then you want to have them in your top five. But also character traits that you want to have that you don't feel like you currently have. So those two things I would model, I don't think they need to go hand in hand. You can definitely learn from someone that you don't like, and you can definitely be around people you like, but they're not as smart as the thing you want to learn from. You know what I mean? So you can definitely learn business from an overweight entrepreneur, but you will probably want to learn health from them. So that's what I've learned. I don't need to love everything about that person to learn from that person. And then there's also people I want to spend time with who I think are impeccable characters or leaders or very charismatic. Like Myron, obviously. Like, Myron is so charismatic. And so I want to spend time with Myron because I want to be more charismatic. And so traits that you love, find those and spend time with those people or results that they have that you want to spend more time with to get the result in your life, too.

Well, and something that people might not know is you paid a pretty penny to have that proximity with Myron. Right. And for me, in my life, I was thinking about this today when I was getting ready. I was like, everyone that I have wanted to be close with, I've paid to be in those rooms, and it's been worth it.

You got a knack.

Yes, you have. But I'm sure there's 100 situations where you just didn't.

I've also been invited into a lot of rooms, but I paid for some.

Of them, and I need to pick your brand in that, like, you know everyone.

I'm. Well, thank you. I just love people. And I'll be honest, a lot of times I don't even know who people are. And apparently they're like, a big deal. And they're like, you were with them. And I'm like, you're like, in who? That was?

Like, Vic's in every. Every photo. Like, if you trace back, it's like, she's everywhere.

Well, thank you.

Ultimate connector. Yeah. Which is the most important person in the room.

Yeah.

The alt. The connector.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, something on connecting that people don't realize is a lot of times you invest so much in those relationships. So when you make that connection, I feel like we have to find a way for connectors to feel more valued.

Right.

Because I'm like, I spent nine years with this person, six years with this person, this much money with both, and then connected you two in two seconds.

That's what makes connectors so attractive because they don't think they're like they're more valuable than they think they are. Like, you know, they're so humble, they're so unassuming and that's what makes them great connectors because they're, they're so likable. Like, I mean clearly, like you're very likable. Thank you. But you're not like pretentious, like, and you know, that's why people love connecting with you and like you're the vic knows that person. She can connect you and intro you. So.

Yeah. Well, thank you, I appreciate that. But back to Myron. A pretty penny. So getting in this. So can you tell me how much did you spend to go with Myron?

The first time, first investment I ever made in my own was 350,000. 350,000, I know. Which is in Australian terms, 550,000 AUD. And that's a house. Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm not, luckily I'm not a car person, but that could be a couple of Lambos, I'm guessing, you know, or Ferrari or whatever. Like, you know, it's. Yeah, it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. It's the biggest investment I've made by far by a factor of seven. But it's really changed who I am.

Was it worth it?

100%? The transformation happened when I paid the money because then I felt like I was leveling up. I was living congruent to me, seeking the best and being the best and investing the most that probably most people, I don't know many people that's invested more than 350k in one coaching offer. Except for the person invested a million in his million dollar offer and maybe a couple of people who invested in Russell's million dollar seat for the library. And so it really just lifts your identity. So I bought an identity. That's what really happened. I tell Myron all the time, like, Myron, if you stop delivering on the next 12 months, I really got the transformation because when I transferred you that 550k Aussie in full, that's when I realized I'm playing this game at a bigger level than I've ever played. And it just, you know, that internal congruence, you can't really, it's a weird Feeling, but, you know, it just feels. You can sleep well at night now.

Yeah, well. And they say transformation starts at the transaction.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

And some people are like, oh, well, free now.

I love that. Transformation happens. That's a transaction. Whoa, that's so good. I've never heard of that. That's.

It's not mine, but I can't remember who I got it from or I would give it a name.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's true. Transformation does start at the transaction. That's why people don't get the value out of free.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

So, and from that, we haven't mentioned this. I only mentioned this to Russell today, but sold our first million dollar offer.

You did?

Yes.

Oh, my goodness.

From that transformation.

Yes. So it's already paid for itself three times.

100%. Yeah, yeah. Plus the other six 100k offers we sold as a result of being around Myron. Like, it's crazy.

That's incredible.

Yeah. And people ask, oh, so did mine help you with, like, craft what the million dollar offer was or what the 100k offer wasn't? No, he just gave me the belief that I could do it. And yes, that was it. The belief.

It all comes back. There's this theme throughout this podcast. The belief that you could be on stage. The belief that you could have the offer. Like, if anyone could take away one thing, if you could find that belief in yourself to realize. I don't know if you're faith based, but it's like we are all created in the image of God and he created us. We can create. We were made to create. We were made with that same power.

Yeah.

And so it's like you can literally, if you are listening to this, you can do anything. You are capable of anything. But you have to first believe that it's possible 100%.

You must. You must. And you choose your beliefs. That's the. We choose them.

You're either choosing to not believe. Like, that can never happen to me. Oh, that must be nice for them. My least favorite words. Or you're choosing to. So that's incredible. And congratulations.

Like, thank you for that.

And it's already paid for itself. That's the most beautiful part. How long ago was that? From the time you first purchased that offer from him to now.

It's everything. A month.

It's been 30 days.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I still got 11 months with Myron.

You're like, I don't even know about.

I'm good, Mahar. Like, thank you.

Incredible.

Yeah, yeah. It's Crazy. Yeah.

Okay.

That didn't happen like it was, I mean, Russell was a catalyst. 100. Like it was 100. The root catalyst. It would not have to happen with Russell. Even the book and everything. Like everything just, you know. Yeah, yeah.

But I think we find coaches and then we, they lead us to others.

Yes.

And that it's a process. It doesn't mean you have to stay with one forever. It doesn't mean they can't be part of it and you can't add in others. Yeah, yeah, Right. But did you follow Russell's framework to start initially?

Yes. Webinars. And I failed at webinars so bad. I, I, I, I learned that I, I have a different selling style. And this is what I've learned about selling, is that everyone's got different archetypes of selling, and you got to figure out which one is your style. And my one is more, I guess, more freestyle. You know, it's probably not repeatable because it's more freestyle, but I kind of, that's my more, more natural selling style. And every time I try to sell like someone else, I just do it badly. And I learned this the hard way from teaching my students how to sell. And I, at the beginning, I taught them how to sell like I sell. And some people came in, they were really pretty good at selling, and then I wanted to take them to the next level, and then they try to sell like me, and they do worse, and I'm like, oh, okay, sell like you, but just do it better. Like, yeah. So that's, yeah. So I bombed at webinars, but I did learn framework on how to market.

Okay.

That's the main thing. Like, Russell is a marketing genius. Just a marketing genius. Yeah.

Well, that's a great takeaway too, because sometimes just because one person's doing something doesn't mean we have to do it.

Yes.

Right. Webinars might be one other person's jam. It's not your jam. Maybe it's one on one sales calls.

Yes.

Maybe it's in person, you know?

Yeah. So, yes.

It's like, I think that's what I struggled with because I thought, you know, I thought that it had to be done like everybody else did it, but I'm like, I'm really good at one on one.

Yes.

You know, so why am I gonna go try to sell one to many? I said, I said, it's easier for me to sell to the CEO than it is for me to sell to the masses.

Yes.

And I recognize that. And I've learned that about myself. So that's the direction I've gone. And it was a game changer. It only took me six years to give it up. To give up on trying to sell to the masses.

Yes. And I think sometimes, or quite often actually, to find out what you're good at, you need to find out what you're not good at.

Yes.

By just doing the other things. And you have to do it, otherwise you never know that. Okay, I'm definitely not good at that. I'm really good at that. And that's how you find out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A hundred percent. Now let's go into the tiny challenge because I want to learn all about this. And what is it? How does it work? Can you kind of walk me through? And is this after you've already. You're a coach right now and now you want to add a tiny challenge in for your program?

Yeah. So we've been teaching it for four years. It just didn't have like a fancy name, I guess. Tiny challenge. We used to call it one on one challenge. So when you're going from zero to a hundred K and you have to market yourself, you can market yourself through webinars, masterclasses, virtual events, workshops, group challenges, one on one sale calls, cold gm or there's so many things to market yourself and that's extremely difficult if you haven't made your first one or because you really don't know what you're doing. You don't have a proven offer, your messaging is not clear, you have imposter syndrome, you're not really that good at what you're doing. You don't have a list. It's overwhelming trying to fill up a masterclass or a webinar. How do you get a hundred people to show up? What's the follow up sequence? What's the tech like? And so I always think down like what's the basic foundations to help someone get started? And so we came up with a tiny challenge, which is like a group challenge, but it's done one on one. So just you, another person, one on one. And when I told Russell this is his, it doesn't make sense. But the more he thought about it, the more he realized it was such a brilliant idea. And that's how I got to speak on Fun Hacking Live because it's the simplest way to get started because you don't have to worry about tech, you don't have to worry about jumping on zoom. You have, you just pick up the phone and call. There's no one that you have to worry about not showing up because you get a 100% show rate, because everyone books in the five calls. Five calls, one on one over five days. You don't have to worry about filling up a room. You don't have to worry about, like, you know, speaking even, because then you have to then learn one to many speaking. And so it allows every coach to get started straight away. And if your messaging is a bit blurry, that's okay. Because you figure out your messaging through doing that. And our students are crushing it. I mean, if they do 10 tiny challenges, we're getting students who get closing 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 out of 10. They've got a $3,000 offer. That's their first 15 to $20,000 like that. And they didn't need a list, and they didn't need to launch, and they didn't need to worry about tech or learn how to speak or sell one to many or worry about no one showing up. It's crazy.

I'm like, mind blown. I'm obsessed right now. That's amazing.

Yeah, it's crazy. And then because the reciprocity is so high, it's extremely high. And then they do it again the next 10, it becomes so addictive all the way to 100k. And they've never really had to market themselves that much. And they learn. This is the first framework where you can earn while you're learning.

Wow. Because you only need to get five people.

That's it.

And you're not. And that's enough. And you can feel like I filled up the five spots and I just crushed it because I filled up five spots.

That's right. And if you did, if all you did was say five tiny challenges a month and you converted two or three of them, which is so easy to do because the reciprocity is so high. And you got a 3,000, $4,000 offer, you're on 10k month. Like that.

Wow.

Anyone can find five leads to do a tiny challenge on anyone. But to do a webinar or masterclass or a group challenge, you're going to have to find 100. And if you bomb it, you have to run it the next month and find another hundred or 200 or 1000. And if your close rate, like, you know, get 100 people, register 10% show rate. 10% show up and you're. And your close rate is 10%. You're only in the sun at one person from a hundred.

Yeah.

These are two or three tiny challenges. You're set well.

And when you're on a webinar, I think, you know, if you're. No one shows up or there's like four people in the room.

Yes.

And you're like, put a yes in the chat. And it's like, my mom's here putting a yes in the chat to make it look like.

Imagine you're a beginner.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying to beginners. It's so overwhelmed.

Yeah, that's. And that's why like. And Russell said a couple of times and he's released a couple of podcasts saying, like, this is a future of marketing in 2025 and beyond. And even Pedro, like, the challenge guy, when I, when I told him this at his house, I was sitting home and I said, hey, Pedro, we do this thing. It's a one on one challenge. Because, you know, we found that our students, they were just not getting results. A group, they were stressed, overwhelmed, they wanted to give up. And we thought, just, let's do it one on one, like. And they're like, I can do that. We gave them permission to do it, and now they're crushing it. They're growing so fast. And after you do 20 or 30, then you can do group, and then group becomes 10 times easier. And your first group challenge, if you've done 20 or 30 tiny challenges, guess where your 30 leads are? The one you did a tiny challenge on?

Yes. Okay. That's amazing. So then how long each day would you be doing it? So is it an hour a day?

45 minutes? 30 to 45 minutes, yeah.

Okay. And based on whatever your framework is that you're teaching.

That's correct. Yeah. What do you feel like you're the best at teaching at? So what's your expertise? You know, and you only need to be one chapter ahead. But what can you help someone get a result in in five days or less? Like, it's kind of like a fitness challenge. Lose five pounds in five days kind of thing. Like, what's your version of lose five pounds in five day challenge? You know, and. And just do that.

Yeah. What's the transformation you can give someone in five days?

Yep.

So does the yes.

That's your copy. Yes. Forward by Russell too. Yep.

Wow. And it's forwarded. There's a forward by Russell Brunson now in this is it going to walk me through step by step, what I.

Need to do, even scripts on what to say, because if you don't have the framework, then. And you're a beginner, those calls could blow up to two hours. You can imagine, right, because you know you're starting out, you don't know how to, you don't know how to like keep it tight and. Yeah, so you follow a framework, follow a structure, follow the scripts and know exactly what to do. So for the first, I mean, for the first call, we follow what we call the four Fs. Okay, so you've elicit their future. What do they want over the next five days and what do they want over the next 12 months? And that's important because you need to stretch their vision for the next 12 months. So get clear on their future. So we're here. Welcome to the tiny challenge kind of thing. Okay, let's set some goals. What are you looking to achieve in the next five days with me? What are you looking to achieve in the next 12 months? So we're having coffee this time next year and you'd like to report back on how's life, how's business? What would you like to say? Boom, now you've got their future. The second thing is what are you frustrated about right now? What's not working, what's getting in the way? So the frustration is the next F. Okay, hearing all of this, you're writing all down, where have you failed in the past? So the third F is what have you tried that it's not working and what are you not willing to try? Where have you failed in the past? What are you in a coaching program right now? Know what they're currently trying and where they found in the past. And then the fourth F is what are your fears? What are you, Some of your limiting beliefs that are getting in the way. You got all that info and say, great, so over the next five days I'm going to build a plan for you to help you, number one, get your outcome for the next five days. And number two, if you're, if you're loving this and you feel like this is something that you really want, then would it be okay with you if I offer you what a 12 month program looks like to help you achieve this 12 month goal?

Okay, so future, future frustrations.

Frustrations, failures and fears.

Failures, fears.

Yeah.

And then that's on the first call.

That's on the first call. Get clarity on that. You do that first call. You know, Ihelp statement already. Yeah, it's.

And then are you traditionally offering them at the end of the five days, a 12 year program or is it a 90 day? Or is it.

Yeah, you can tailor it. That's the, that's the awesome thing. Because when you're starting out, you think you have an offer and you may have some idea, or maybe most people don't. But the first three or four clients you sign up just tailor it to exactly what they said they want. So if they've got a 12 month goal and you know, say, and you may think, okay, it's $5,000, sell it and then if it's too much when, drop it down to six months or 3,000, depending on their goal. Yeah.

Is there a general price point that this challenge works best for?

Yes.

Okay, what is that?

Now I'm going to go from my own personal experience. When I started out, I didn't know better, but I was charging 3,000 for six months or 5,000 for 12 months. And in a tiny challenge, you can 100% do that because the reciprocity is so high. And you're tailoring the offer to exactly what they said on that first call. Like, this is exactly what I want. This is how I want to do it. This is what I've tried. This is what I'm not willing to try. This is where I found them in the past. Here's my limit beliefs. And you tailor it and you give it to them.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you're saying between a three to.

Yep. Three to five.

Three to five is a sweet spot.

Sweet spot. Some people got limiting beliefs around money and I get that. So just charge 1,000.

Yeah, yeah. Start at least a minimum. A thousand.

Yeah. That's.

You already spent five days with them.

Yeah.

You're already given. And are you charging for this challenge? Is this the Charged 5 Days Challenge?

Tiny challenge. Great question. Tiny challenge can be free or it can be paid. Now, I wouldn't charge if you haven't made a hundred grand. It's like if you're going to do a webinar, you don't charge for a webinar.

Okay.

Your group challenge, you're not charging. When you're starting out, you're not charging for a masterclass, you're not charging for, you know, you know, you're getting charged with those. This is a framework that replaces all of that. So I wouldn't charge for it.

Okay, but after you've made your first a hundred K, then maybe do like a 47.

97.

Yeah, 197.

And I get why people want to charge because what if I get a tire kicker? What if I get a time waster and it's like, wow, five calls and they're here to waste my time. It's frustrating. It's a Legit concern. And so I'll share. It's the opposite. So number one, if you're concerned about that, I would charge $47, fully refundable, give it back to you after the five days.

Okay.

So you can do that and that'll weed out a time waster.

But you use that 47 towards the deposit of your program, you know, so you can definitely do that, but you don't really need to because if you think about.

Like this is in the health. So this is where I believe tiny challenges will blow up the health industry. So personal train is the traditional model of personal training. You go to the gym, personal training, postures gives you a free 30 minute session and you do the training with them. And at the end they're like, oh, would you like to buy 10 sessions, 80 a session, but you buy 10, I'll give it to you for 600 bucks. So they make a $600 sale from giving you one free session and they need to probably give you up 10 free sessions. They have one sale for $600. So that's 10 sessions. What if that personal trainer did 10 two, five day tiny challenges? Oh yeah, right in those, hey, I'm offering one on one, it's free. The accountability you're going to get, the progress. That personal trainer will know everything about you after the five days. And at the end they're not offering 10 sessions for 600 bucks. They're offering a six month program for you to be able to fit in that dress again that you could not fit in since you had kids.

Wow.

And you can sell it for two, two and a half thousand and you'll close one in two every day of the week for the same amount of work. But now you're setting something four times higher and there'll be no more broke personal trainers. And so that's where I see the big opportunity. Imagine personal trains running, tiny challenge. So I'm sharing that because if you got approached by a personal trainer to say, hey, would you like to do a five day, one on one, one on one challenge with me? I'm not doing it. If I was here to waste my, I'm not going to get my ass booked for 10, like five calls, like five sessions. If I had to be up for being getting kicked, like, yeah. Otherwise I'm not doing it. I'm like, I don't really feel like.

You know, you wouldn't want to commit to that.

Yeah, yeah. So like for you to commit to five one on ones, you have a problem you really want solved Now. And so even just when you think about as a participant, if someone offered that to you, it'd be like, it's not a, oh, yeah, let's do it. It's real commitment. And so you actually weed out time wasters because the framework demands the commitment. Whereas on Zoom, when you're doing one to many, if you're not really committed, you'll show up, turn off your camera. But you can't do that in a tiny challenge. And so it really requires commitment from the person that says, yes, I want to do it.

And it can work for all industries. I mean, you, you know, life coaches, personal trainers.

Yeah. Real estate.

Okay.

One of our students, Rick Carrutha, he's got like, he's apparently he's pretty well known in America. He's got like over 2 million followers. And so I met him at event and Myers Event told him about tiny challenge, but the paid model, because he's a bit more advanced and he's like, okay, I'm going to run a paid model. So he did a $2,000 one. Five days. And he's just sent me a voice clip two days ago, which when I did my first one and I sold a $25,000 offer, and that was so good. And then the second one he did, he sold a 100k offer first 100k offer sold. And he's like, I'm so inspired. I've never sold a hundred K offer before. I never thought it was possible. But the only way it was possible was because of the five days. One on one.

Yeah.

And so he's had two tiny challenges, made 125k.

That's incredible.

Real estate agent.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it really is for every industry because sometimes people are like, I'm not a life coach or I'm not this.

That's correct.

And a real estate agent. I mean, it's just more than housing at that point. But he, like you said, more advanced. So he charged for the challenge. So, like, for someone like me, I want to go do a five day tiny challenge. How many people am I signing up? Five people, five days. Or is it just one person for five days? Is there.

Yeah, one person. Five days, one on one.

And so I just plan on getting one person.

Yep, one person. Now, you can do multiple tiny channels in a week, but they're not in the same, like, on call together. You know what I mean?

What should I shoot for? Should I shoot for trying to get three people on their own tiny calls in a week or.

Depends on your capacity.

What do you recommend?

Yeah, it depends on your capacity there. So for us, because our avatar is like, you know, they're not full time coaches yet, which means that they're probably working or they got kids and that kind of stuff. And so they, they'll fit in about two or three a week in their business. But for the odd person who has burnt their butts, they quit their job, they got all the time in the world, no kids and stuff like that, you could, you could, I mean, you know, you could run 10 in one week. Yeah, that's like, that's a lot.

Yeah. But if you burnt your boats and you're like, it's this or nothing. Yeah, all in.

Yeah, yeah. And then you sign up five or six out of those ten. If you've got a five thousand dollar offer, that's a $25,000 a week.

There you go. Yeah, that's amazing. Where can they get this book and when can they get this book?

Yes, tinychallengebook.com tinychallengebook.com okay, that's when they are. And it's being released, will probably be released when this podcast gets released. But it's being released literally in five days.

Oh, my goodness.

Yes, in five days time. Tinychallengebook.com and what we're also doing is because, you know the problem with tiny challenges, you know, if you want to run a group challenge or a webinar, you can go into them and kind of hack them and like, oh man, I want to see how Russell does his clothes. And you go and register for free and see how Russell does a clothes. Or if Pedro's doing a challenge, like, I'm going to go in Pedro's challenge and see how he's doing it, you know, the master. But you can't go in a tiny challenge and see how they're doing it because it's a tiny challenge.

That's so true. Because I am that person. I'm like, I want to see how they run their webinars. I want to see how they're doing their closes.

So, but now we've made it a thing where. And this is how you scale one on one coaching. And this is the evolution of tiny challenges. 100 years of coaching. No one has ever been able to scale one on one coaching because you can't. So I now run tiny challenges and I sell shadow seats, which is 97. And the shadow seats are, hey, who would like to see me do a tiny challenge and witness it firsthand? I'll break down after every call. Exactly What I did, why I did it, and you get to ask questions. But I'm only coaching this person one on one as a shadow seat. Now, when I do the pitch, I'm not just pitching to one person. I'm pitching to a hundred people.

Because you're actually pitching them what you pitch this other.

Yes.

And are they watching a recording or this call up?

They're on live. Oh, they're watching it, but they will offer the replay, too.

And then that person that you're signing up agrees to this?

Yes, yes. Yes. I make them an irresistible offer, you know, and after you have to agree to it, if they don't agree to it, that's cool. I'll pick the next person. Like, some people just want that private one on one, but yeah, that's how you scale one on one. Coaching.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. This is. My mind is blown. Where was this seven years ago? This is going to change everything for me.

Yeah. Yeah. So credit to Pedro. I mean, I know Pedro watches a lot of my stuff because I was at his house and I said, we do this thing. It's called a one on one challenge.

Yeah.

I just said it. So that's kind of what we do. It's like, what. What's that? It's just this. And. And then I didn't make a big deal. I didn't think it was a big deal. And it's like, dude, that's. That's the next biggest thing in marketing. You don't understand how powerful this is.

Yeah.

So really, it's like, what. What do you call it? I'm like, one on one challenge. And he's like, no, we've got to. We've got to get a name for this, Ed. And you got to trademark it and get the domain. And don't tell anyone this, because we got to get all the ducks lined up in a row. And so we were brainstorming names like Micro Challenge, Mini Challenge, Teeny, Tiny. And Tiny was like, the perfect fit. So we got the trademark for Tiny Challenge. We also got the trademark for Mini Challenge, Micro Challenge, Teeny Challenge, Petite Challenge. All of it. Yeah. Because we knew they were all for copycats, right?

Yeah.

So now we own all of that.

So that's amazing. And isn't it great how when you have the right friends around you, sometimes you have something that's gold and the right people will be like, that is gold.

Yes.

And you just need them to let you know.

Yes. That's what we're talking about. The eighth Wonder or proximity. If I wasn't at Pedro's house that day, this wouldn't exist. No.

Yeah.

Yeah. We wouldn't be here. Yeah.

Yeah. And cheers to you for giving credit where credit's due.

All the time. Yeah, all the time. Yeah. I mean, I always credit. And if I haven't credited you, I'm so sorry, I don't mean to, but I always credit everyone that's, I mean, built up this journey for me for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, is there anywhere else people can follow you or that you would like them to go to find you?

Yeah. So I started a YouTube channel. It's just Richmond in. And it's all things tiny challenges and.

Richmond Den, they would just go. Richmond in is your YouTube name. So it's R I C H M O N D D I N H. Will also have it linked in the show notes below. Now, something with this podcast that I always like to do. The whole mission of it is to leave the world with wisdom, perspective, and hope. Is there a piece of wisdom or perspective that's unique to you that you would like to leave the world with?

Wow, I love this. I like to use. I don't know who said this, but to be remembered tomorrow, you must be present today. You know, and that's for parenting, it's for business, it's for relationships, it's for life. So many of us are focused on tomorrow and then you lose everything, you know, and so that's. That's. That's my parting wisdom. I'm not sure who said that, but I heard that from somewhere and I thought, wow, that's so cool.

Yeah. And it is so powerful to be present today because we get so caught up and it's not that we shouldn't be forward thinking, but, you know. Yeah, we don't want to look back. But then how often do we get into the future and then we're like, oh, that was so great, or I missed that.

That's right.

Just being present in the moment now.

Yeah. Yep. Still set goals. But then know what you need to do today to achieve it too. Like, I mean, that's. Of course you have to be forward thinking, but you just know what needs happen. And that relieves, overwhelm. It relieves. You know, you force yourself to focus on what you can control versus what you can't control by just being present.

I love that. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you for being here. And with that, this is Fearless Founders with your reminder that the change starts with you. Now go be great. Do not wait. I believe in you.