Using Herbs For Dogs with Rita Hogan

What do you know about using herbs? Whether it's for you, for your dog, for your cat. I have to be honest and say that I know enough to get myself in trouble and not much more than that. It is absolutely fascinating to me and at the same time a little scary. And in fact we find out why in today's episode why it is a little bit scary because there are so many wonderful non toxic but plants and herbs that we could be trying out all the time. We could be learning about them and finding out what they are energetically and what they can do for our body, for our health, for our dog and cat. And we don't there, there are quite a few reasons for that. And today's guest is going to help demystify herbs, especially for our canine friends. I am so thrilled to welcome today's guest to you. We have just become fast friends and I am so in love with her. If you're not familiar with Ms. Rita Hogan, she is a clinical canine herbalist with over 20 years of experience and she specializes in holistic canine herbalism. We're also going to learn what the difference is in herbalism and holistic herbalism in today's episode as well as some ways that you can learn more and become more comfortable with utilizing herbs for your dogs and maybe even for yourself. So we're going to be talking all about herbs today on this episode of the Pet Parenting Reset with Ms. Rita Hogan. Here she is. Have you tried training methods that just didn't work? Do you feel that your pet is not getting his or her nutritional needs met? Are illnesses and bad behavior your daily norm? You're gonna want to join me on the Pet Parenting Reset where you'll hear interesting and informative interviews and get solutions to all your pet problems. I'm your host, Jessica L. Fisher. Rita, thank you so much for joining me today. I have been looking forward to this for so much longer than you know because herbs, herbs confound me. So I need, I need people like you in my life to help me with, with herbs and how we use them because my like philosophy for everything is that nature provides. I just am not sure exactly how. So I need to look to people like you for how that all works out. So thank, first of all, thank you so much for being here and I would love to start our talk, we're going to talk about so much today. But I would love to start off by like your journey. How did you get into herbs in the first place and was that with people or animals? Have you ever worked with people. I'm very, very interested in this.

I got into herbalism with the. Rooted in my lifestyle as a kid. I worked in the garden with my father. My father had a. A gargantuan garden. Like, you know, just like gargantuan. I mean, I don't know how long it was, but it was huge. And it took, you know, an entire day to plow it, and, you know, it was just huge. And we worked together side by side. And he used plants for our chickens, cows and pigs and horses. And I didn't pay attention to what he did with our dogs at that time. I was so involved. I mean, the dogs were always just kind of by our side. And so. But what's really cool is we had a dog named Susie that lived until she was 24 to 26. So it's. It's kind of. No one knows the exact age, but we know she was at least 24. And she was there before I was born, and then she was there after I went to college. And I know that, you know, she didn't eat kibble. She was fed raw milk. I know that because he used to squirt it into her mouth from Molly, our cow. Our milking cow, and just squirt it, right? And the cats would line up and he'd squirt them, and. Which was cute, but Molly, Molly. So I'm sorry, Susie. So raw milk, leftover meat scraps from our table, and that's about it. And she was never spayed, and she. I don't think she was ever vaccinated, so. But she just lived on our property. She didn't go anywhere, you know, and she did have some puppies. So she lived like a pretty normal dog life, you know, And I wish I, you know, myself right now, wishes I would have paid more attention, but I didn't. I was little. I was, you know, I was just a little girl. But our horses were the same. My horse was the same. We, you know, we didn't do a lot of things. Things that you see now in the horse. Horse world. And so when I fast forward to, you know, I studied Ayurveda in my life at the University of Minnesota. I studied Eastern philosophy, Sanskrit, and different types of. Different type. Types of Eastern religions. And then that didn't. It just didn't. I was a Buddhist for a while. I. It didn't sit with me, so it didn't resonate with me. Nothing wrong with it. It just didn't resonate with me and my. And where I'm from. So I went back to western herbalism when I was 30, and I'm 52 now. And so going on about. Yeah, going on 22 years of practicing herbalism. Started out making products. And I, you know, it was very innate in me. And I moved to this property that had 36 acres. And you know, it was all woods and plants and it was just wonderful in Tennessee. And so I just decided one day I boarded dogs. Kennel. Kennel. Did kennel. Free boarding. And I just noticed how sick the dogs were and that people would hand me a bag. I say this all the time. I feel like a broken record. But like, people would hand me a bag of kibble and some pharmaceuticals and just say, you know, I'll see you in a week or I'll see you in two weeks. And you know, the dogs were so sick, but people just didn't even. They didn't know. And I was there a long time ago too, about 25 years ago. I was in the same kind of boat and. And I just decided to dedicate my life to dogs and herbs. And I, you know, I. Someone asked me, you know, did you go to college for that? No, I made it up. Like, I was like, okay, I'm going to be an herbalist. And well, I wonder if there are any herbalists just for dogs, you know. And I said, well, that's what I'm going to be. And so I tried to figure out what to call someone said, well, what are you? I'm. I'm canine herbalist. I'm. I like the canine versus dog, you know, it sounded better. I'm that kind of type of person. And I was like, I'm a canine herbalist. You know, this is what I'm going to do. And yes, I, I do work with people, usually dog owners, you know, we, we, you know, balance out their dog and then we work with people. But people, people are harder than dogs because they get in their way. And I have found that women in general, because women are the bulk of my clients, because I find that they are definitely the dog caregivers for the most part. Not saying men aren't involved at all. I'm just saying the. They like I would say 10, nine to nine women to one man, right. And I find women in general need a lot of poking and prodding for self care because we're so busy taking care of everyone else and every problem in the world and solving problems and stuff like that. So it's hard sometimes to work with people because they, they, they definitely get in their way. They just, they will do anything for their dog, but they won't. They won't do those same things for themselves. So humans, my fellow herbalists that do not do canine herbalism, you know, my fellow herbalist tribe, know what I'm talking about, because they work specifically with humans, you know, and we always talk about, you know, if we just. It's part therapist and part herbalist, because you really have to get people to. To give themselves the same grace and ease that they want for their dogs and animals.

There were so many things in there. I would love to, To. To touch on some more. First of all, your, like, the origin story is so fascinating to me, especially when we think about and things that we really don't even know, like, as humans, like, there are things we're just born with. Like, we're born being afraid of snakes. Like, that is just ingrained in us genetically kind of thing. Unless I guess there are some. Some psychopaths out there that aren't afraid of snakes. But, like, there are just some things that I guess, you know, evolutionarily, like, we just know and do, and it's like part of our DNA. And so when we think about. When I think about when you were telling me your story and how you grew up as a child, there are a handful, like maybe two or three other people that I've talked to on this podcast specifically, that I don't want to say they had similar childhoods growing up, but they definitely, whatever it is that they're doing in life now started when they were a child and they were living this, like, really organic lifestyle as a child growing up. And those kinds of people, like you seem to. How do I want to say this? Like, you just. It's like there's something in you that others of us may not quite have or have accessed. Like, it's probably in there somewhere, but we haven't accessed it because we just didn't grow up that same way. That is just so fascinating to me, and I hope I explained that.

I totally get what you. I mean, there's some people that are very. I just think what's happening is people are growing up without nature. You know, I grew up on a farm, so I spent my time outside in the woods, where I didn't grow up in the city, you know, I didn't grow up. I grew up in a rural area, you know, and. But I do think that we all have a path to the green. However that looks up looks like, I mean, evolutionary kind of progression. We have not been on cement and in tall buildings for very long. Right? Just a few generations. And so I think that it's in all of us. I think the path is sometimes narrow for some and wider for others. But I think the longer you walk the path, the wider it gets, no matter who you are. So some people have to get over their fear of nature because, you know, we have been conditioned to be afraid. We, you know, we. I just read yesterday that we use Over. Okay, so this is a huge. We use over 1 billion pounds of pesticides every year now, okay? And that's just saying that we're afraid of nature. We want all of our food perfect. And we, you know, and we're trying to combat nature and we're destroying it, but nature will be there when we're done. I mean, if you look at what happened during COVID and people stopped interacting with nature like we do now, nature started coming back at an unprecedented rate and it will do it again. So, I mean, there's no way that we can. We're not smarter than nature. There's absolutely no way. Scientists has not. I mean, scientists don't even know how fish swim in a school so fast and move so fast as one. They can't figure that out. They can't figure out how they contact, you know, how they communicate with one another. They don't understand how birds do the same thing. Up in the sky, you see those huge, you know, swarms of birds and they all. They all turn at the same time, you know, like they don't understand. There's so much we. I, you know, I personally think, in my own personal belief, I think we probably know less than 1% of the knowledge that's on this planet. And we think we all know about 90%, which, you know, is our egos, which always gets us into trouble, always.

And I think that, like, that's very hopeful for me too, that we just. There's so much we don't know that that is out there. But. So, okay, the. The topic you brought up with women specifically, like, standing in our own ways of caring for ourselves. This, this idea of self care, that triggered me too, because I. I probably spent the. At least the last 10 years, maybe a little bit longer, learning and learning and learning and learning and trying different things with my pets and getting them healthier, getting them on a healthier diet and being very, you know, I have my supplement graveyard trying everything and then cutting it all back to like next to nothing and doing all of the things. And that has led me into. And I think that's One of, one of the, the very important, sorry, the very important things that people like you do is that when you, when you kind of wake up, this part of somebody where they're like, oh my gosh, look at what I can do naturally with my animals. I think there's this kind of like we, we start to realize that, oh, we can do this for ourselves too. Like we can start taking care of ourselves better. And that in turn also allows us to take care of others around us better. So it's this like beautiful like symphony of things that start happening. And so I have personally been on this like self care journey for maybe the last year, year and a half and have started using some herbs for myself and seeing some improvements. Now I have no idea exactly what these herbs are. They come in a bottle and, and I took them to my muscle tester and she was like, oh my gosh, these are muscle testing so fabulous for you. Please use them. So I'm using them. And to me, like, I, I, I, I know in my head, like logically there are so many wonderful things that herbs can be doing for my pets, but I have this like, like I'm, I don't know why I'm scared. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to mess something up, if I'm going to make something worse. So having somebody like you come on and talk a little bit, maybe try to demystify because they just, herbs confound me. So can, is there, are there any tips for people like me who are like, I'm scared to get people like over this hump of being scared of using herbs with their pets?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a, it's a paradigm shift. So, you know, I, I recently was subjected to normal television. You know, I'm, I'm a streamer for sure. I don't like any type of commercial. And I was recently subjected to commercials. And what I found interesting was they were all pharmaceutical commercials. And you know, at the end it tells you like there was one that makes your antidepressant work better. Right. When your antidepressant stops working, don't stop using it or wean yourself off. Just add this one. But at the end the side effects were unreal, including death. Okay, so death or you know, a immune disorder, autoimmune disease or you know, cancers were a lot of them. And pharmaceuticals save lives. They've saved my life. I'm not saying anything like that, but I find it very interesting how someone is okay using a pharmaceutical because their doctor told them, despite the long list of side effects that is in the pharmaceutical. But they are afraid to use a plant that's sitting outside their door. You know, I know if I walked out by my door right now, I'd see plantains staring at me all over the place, or BlackBerry or, you know, different types of plants. But that is just conditioning. So we have been conditioned over the last hundred years to be afraid and to think that every germ needs to be destroyed. Even though we definitely need germs. You know, everything needs to be managed and we as a people cannot survive without pharmaceutical intervention. And that's one of the scariest parts about just living on this planet right now. Like, we literally can't, like you will die unless you go see your doctor for your checkup or get your pharmaceutical medicines. I don't know the statistic on how many people are on some type of pharmaceutical, but it's extremely high and I think it's over 65%. So given that you really like start out with non toxic herbs. So you know, one of like it's winter for the northern hemisphere and we're going into, you know, deeper winter. And one of my favorite winter herbs for people and dogs is nettles, dried nettles. Because winter rules the kidney. And the kidney really needs a lot of really great minerals to work the way it should. You know, if you're getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, your kidneys need love. You know, dogs, their kidneys all need love. Right now. The kidneys rule the bones. And so this is also a big time of muscle tears and different type of musculoskeletal problems, arthritis, being stiff, you know, a lot of moaning and groaning going on right now, which is an emotion of the kidney. And according to traditional Chinese medicine. I am not a TCM herbalist, but I do use a lot of their diagnostics and I do believe most of their, you know, diagnostic patterns. But nettles just helps revitalize the tissues. It helps. One of my mentors, Matthew Wood, who I worked with and just followed for since the beginning, he talks about how nettles make things in the body work again. Him and this really great other herbalist, Jim McDonald, and you know, they just get things working again and that usually comes from kidney energy. And they're also have, you know, they also work on the liver and the lymphatic system and give your body minerals. And if you want to use young nettles and usually most Nettles are harvested in spring and then they're dried and you can use it as a tincture and you can use it as a tea. You can make a tea with your dog. Like I was making dandelion root tea this morning for my dog and I, and I, I did my first TikTok video this morning with dandelion root tea and which, yeah, I, I've decided I was talked into starting to do little tiny itsy bitsy videos on TikTok. I don't know how long, I don't know how that's going to go, but I'm going to give it a try. But yeah, so, you know, you start with just one herb and see how you do with it. And usually you'll know within probably three to six weeks, six, eight weeks if it is, it's going to improve your health. And not all herbs work for all people. Another thing, you know, you say, well, it's. I'm mystified by them. One of the things is that plants speak a different language than pharmaceutical medicine. They have their own language. And in Western herbalism, which is the predominant type of herbalism in like the United States, Canada, small parts of South America, not much, but we share a lot of the same plant space and like Europe, like Ireland, England, different places like that, that we share the same climate. It. All plants work on a system of energetics, no matter where they are in the world. And their plant language is, however you put it in your kind of ethnic background or ethnicity, like warm, cool, dry and damp. That's the qualities that they have. And some are stimulating, some are, you know, diffusive and they have other properties. But I always look at, well, how warm they are, what they do to the body. Do they warm it up or do they cool it down and do they add more moisture or are they drying? Many, many, many, many, many plants are drying. So, you know, nine times out of 10 it's drying, but in indifferent, like it's on a spectrum. So some are very drying and some are slightly drying. So like nettles are slightly drying but they're pretty neutral and they're, they're not too warm, they're not too cool. So they're a really nice herb to start out with, especially in the wintertime. So. And all plants have that, those, that energetic signature.

Yeah, that. It's interesting to me and I could be totally wrong about this because when I think of nettles, my first thought is for allergy relief.

Yeah.

Which makes me think of spring and summer. I so I've been feeding my dog extra greens with her meals to add fiber to because I've been working on her gut microbiome. And so I went with the green juju, just greens that are freeze dried because that they also have nettles in them where the frozen one doesn't. So. And I was literally like just running out going, it's okay, it's winter anyway. Like, I don't need to worry about allergies. But that's interesting that. Okay, so nettles does so many more things.

Oh, it does so many more things. Yes, it does. And you know, and then parsley is good for your dog during the winter time also, you know, whatever you do for your dog, you always want to think of their nervous system no matter what. You know, there's an emotional and nervous system component to every single type of chronic disease. And you know, everyday life, a lot of people are stressed, are highly stressed, and then their dogs are highly stressed. And it really affects the limbic system and how your dog responds to stress. And if they get stuck in fight or flight because, you know, when you're most people, and I've been talking a lot about this this year, most people don't realize they're in fight or flight. And our cell phones put us in fight or flight constantly. You know, I'm always in trouble for turning off my ringer on my phone and people getting grave with me about it, my family members and. But one of the reasons why I turned my phone off is I do not want to hear the bleeps and bips and you got a sale and this and that and the other. I tend to look at it a couple times a day versus looking at it constantly because you, I mean, they've done CT scans on the brain and it lights it up like cocaine and sugar. So we are in fight or flight constantly with all of our electronics. You know, when I see someone and this comes from love everyone, I'm not saying you're a bad person, so breathe. But when I see someone that has a cell phone and an Apple watch and an OURA ring, I just want to grab it all and throw it in the garbage. Because that person, you can pretty much guarantee, is completely stressed out and has what's called electromagnetic stress. And the interesting thing about being stressed out is your dog can smell it. Your dog can smell the adrenaline, it can smell the noradrenaline. It knows when your cortisol levels are high. And the issue with that is that it feels, it knows there's something Wrong. And so dogs get really stressed out because of our stress. So when we take care of ourselves, we're actually really improving the lives of our dogs and all the other people that we interact with there. The Heartmath Institute is this really great research center that is putting some hard science on what other people like, not other people, but what people in general have thought of as woo woo. You know, they are proving that our heart vibration extends, you know, several feet from our bodies. And we share this vibration with everyone around, especially in our homes. And our stress is their stress and their stress is our stress. And a lot of times by just dealing with that, you see a huge drop in anxiety in dogs and then exposing them to fresh air. And I love dogs that self select plants, especially non toxic plants. You can really tell a dog's energetics by the plants that they self select. A lot of times like you'll see them forging outside and you'll, you know, you've got a dog that's constantly eating plantain and, and dandelion and different really cooling plants, especially consistently because energetics is about consistency. It's not about the like one off here. You know, I eat this a couple times a week. It's about eating or feeding something every single day. And a lot of times, you know, I've seen people on that give their dogs herbs like over a year and some herbs can be given for a really long time. And the best way to figure out is to take that dog off that herb and see if they do okay off of it. What we really want to find, to answer your question in a long way to really what we really want to find is the minimum dosage for maximum benefit.

So nettles, parsley, you've mentioned those as good, like gateway, I'm going to say gateway drugs. That's what I want to say. But gateways into trying out herbs for your dogs. And I know you have various different courses available to people that we can talk about in, in just a little bit, but if someone were interested in just kind of seeing the, the idea of a dog self selecting, I've seen, I've seen like kits out there for cats to self select different herbs and there are different kits for like, you know, calming and different things. I don't know that I've seen them for dogs though. I, I, I would imagine the herbs would do similar things for both dogs and cats.

Is that absolutely. And there's just, so, there's so many wonderful herbs like milk thistle seed and chickweed and like I said Plantain, turmeric, ginger, you know, they're, they're, and they're, these are all non toxic herbs. They're, they, they don't have like skull cap, even Chinese skull cap chamomile which is really found in so many kitchens. And then there's our more warming spicy herbs. Like a lot of the herbs that we have in like kind of incorporated into our lives that just like kind of showed up like this is what you do, right? Many of them are warming like oregano and basil and thyme, things like that. Those are all very warming spices because they, they have this wonderful smell to them and a lot of things that smell very strongly have a lot of volatile oil in them. But you know, you can try those out in your kitchen and you can offer them to your dog, see if they like them. Just make sure they're non toxic herbs. You know, I definitely have seen the differences in certain breeds to be able to self select herbs that are not full of volatile oils versus other breeds. You know, like huskies. Huskies I think are extremely good at self selection, whereas a pug, not so good. I've seen them like go towards herbs that would be completely toxic to them. I wouldn't let them get to them. I have, I have pugs and I wouldn't let them get, but just to see what they would select. And, and I'm not saying that that herb wouldn't help them, but it would also harm them. But they are very all, all dog breeds that I feel all dog breeds are very good at self selecting, like something like an essential oil for inhalation. I only believe in inhalation for the most part using essential oils but, and through self selection because they are so potent and strong. It's the strongest form of herbal medicine. I don't, I don't use a lot of it but you know, they're very effective when they're well indicated for sure. But they can self select them and, and I've seen miracles happen with that. So I like to play around. You know, as long as something's non toxic, I love to play around.

Okay, now is, is turmeric warming? Yes, that seems like it would be warming to me. Okay, it is, it is, that's one thing.

But it's wormy.

Okay, that is one thing that my dog always refuses. Every once in a while I'm like, let's try this golden paste again. Or she's just like, no, I don't want that at all.

Yeah, your dog may be a warm dog. Turmeric is very Warming, but not hot. So ginger is hot, you know, and so like cayenne is hot. It's diffusive, but it's hot. So yes, I mean, you know, and that's a good, that's a good kind of. Like I tell people, I talk about this in my book. You know, turmeric is everywhere. Everyone is on turmeric. But one of the things is, is that it can actually work the opposite for dogs that are too warm. You know, I recently had a client that was on a good, a very good mobility supplement as far I do a lot of formulation and so for companies and from a formulator perspective, very good, very good formula. But it was a very warm, hot formula. Okay. Which is very good for cool dogs because you want to get that circulation up, you want to get that lymphatic flowing, you want to get up that energy. Okay. But in a warm dog it's going to have the opposite effect. It's going to cause more lethargy, it's going to cause more stagnation, it's going to cause more inflammation, even though it's an anti inflammatory. So she stopped using the supplement. She had her dog on it for about six months and her dog has so much energy now and it's the only thing she changed. We just said, take your dog off that supplement and let's see what happens. Because they've been on it for so long, we want to make sure that they don't need that supplement or could be wrong about their energetics. And sure enough, I mean, just night and day. So I think one of the things, one of the best things to do is learn about your dog's energetics and the energetics of plants. You know, one of the best ways to do that is to look, if you're going to Google, don't follow WebMD for plants. It has some okay information as far as some research that have been done on plants, but usually they're standardized, which is another conversation. But you look up, let's just say milk thistle monograph or milk thistle herbalist monograph, and there are some really good herbalists out there writing some monographs. I write monographs too. We all kind of exchange information and then sometimes we discover new things and you know, there are some new research and stuff like that or anecdotal or in the field, clinical evidence that comes about that can be replicated and they write monographs. They're just like a resume for a plant, but a really good one, holistic one, is going to include a plant's energetics and that's like the difference between holistic herbalism and allopathic herbalism.

Okay. That seems very important too because like you were just saying, the formulation of a supplement that you're purchasing can look amazing. But if it's not an energetic match for your dog, you're like you said, you're going to get potentially the totally opposite effect of what you're looking for.

Yeah. And then remember, it's consistency. Okay. A lot of people don't hear it when I say it. It's consistency. But if you have, if you have a dog or a person, I have a great person story. But if you have a dog or a person that has severe chronic disease, you're going to see the difference much quicker. Like for instance, I had a client that is a cold person, not even cool cold, has chronic disease, has Ms. And was given a supplement by a functional medicine doctor. And the functional medicine doctor, good doctor, but is working allopathically, like not paying attention to plant language, gave him a supplement that I know has worked very well for other people. But this supplement is cold. It is cold. It has gentian in it. It's a very cooling supplement. So he was on the supplement for three weeks and lost the use of his legs. He could no longer walk. It's because he's already a cold person. And you're adding all of this cold. It's not just like taking like a 30 second cold shower. That also helps like bring you into parasympathetic activity and kind of activate your nervous system. It's day in and day out, three pills, you know, three servings a day of this supplement to help with some type of parasite, you know, help with whatever they were trying to help him with but not looking at him as an individual. And he had such, you know, Ms. Is very serious chronic disease. Okay. And so you're going to see those effects so much more because you don't have a lot of wiggle room. You know, and the interesting thing about energetics and kind of like biomapping herbs onto people as individuals, the cancer kind of climate is starting to do to kind of understand that where they're doing genetic testing between the patient and the plant to see if there's compatibility to keep people from using plants that are just not going to work. And basically they're mapping energetics. And so when you're dealing with severe chronic disease, it's more important to figure out the energetics of the plants. And your dog, when a dog is pretty healthy, if you're not doing Something consistently day in and out and you're doing some nice rotations and rotating, rotating, rotating foods, veggies, different types of things for the micro, following a seasonal pattern, which I absolutely love. You're not going to see that. But like blackberries aren't really supposed to be around in January. You know, I feed my dog blackberries every day, someone might say. Or I feed them blueberries every day because they're so good for you. Well, you feed anything every day and you're going to get sensitivities, you're going to get a buildup and you have less of a chance of that. If it's energetic match it's. If it's an energetic match.

Okay, well. And that kind of brings up to like kind of two, two different people in my mind are two different. There's probably a whole lot more. Two different types of dogs. Like a dog who is pretty darn healthy, you're just interested in, you know, the pet parent is just interested in optimizing their health and their quality of life. And then you have these dogs that are sick. So when we're talking about dogs that are sick, based on what you just said in my mind, it would make sense that you would want to work with a professional like you. I know, I know you stay pretty booked up. But, but a professional to, to figure out which herbs would be better to start off with, to try so that you're not doing a whole lot of harm with them, even if they are, you know, the non toxic herbs that you're talking about. Whereas a pet parent who has a relatively healthy dog has a lot of wiggle room and they could for instance, lay down a towel and some hopefully organic herbs they have in their kitchen and just kind of put pinches of them around and see what their dog gravitates to. Does Am I kind of. Does that make sense in the way I'm explaining?

I had a horror, like a whole horse consultation this morning. I am not a horse herplace, but I have a horse and want to do the best by my horse. And my partner and I were meeting with animal herbalist homeopath and we were discussing which herbs to one, I have to figure out my horse's energetics, but two, like just picking different seasonal herbs and putting a bucket down with those herbs and seeing which ones he wants, you know, and that's definitely one. And you know, horses are vegans, so it's. They're. They're very predisposed to plant medicine. So it's very easy for Them we just don't want to put something down that they might eat that make them sick because cows and horses will eat stuff that they're not supposed to eat like cats ear or you know different types of plants that just don't work out for them. But yeah, I mean you can definitely do that and I definitely love seasonal herbs and you know trying to just to figure out but, but yeah. Turmeric, you can put some turmeric, a little bit of turmeric down, you can put a little bit of. You can even put a little bit of oregano down small amounts an itsy bitsy pinch of nutmeg. Don't nut. I'm sorry Clove. Don't give much. Clove hardly ever. Don't give more than a minuscule. What is it? Those, those little tiny. You ever see those little tiny teaspoons that are like a pinch a smidge and a something else? Yeah, so that super tiny. And some parsley and some freeze dried nettles and some, maybe some hawthorn leaf or some dandelion root or some dandelion le or some marshmallow. Different types of non toxic plants. The clove is a little on the toxic side but you just want just a breath or just don't include it at all if you're scared and see what your dog wants or work with someone or learn. I love to recommend people learn a plant or two a month, you know and then years go by so quick right. Don't they? And if you learn one to two plants per month and how it interacts with your dog, you know, taste it, smell it, buy a tincture of it or get, make a tea out of it. There's some really good resources out there. Mountain Rose Herbs has wonderful videos and resources. There's lots of different types. I have, I don't have a lot on my website. I wish I had more time to do tons of tutorials but right now I do not. But I'm. It's getting there. But you know just learn about one. One plant a month and you have 12 plants that you are secure with that you are confident with by the end of the year. And in two years you have 24 plants. And I will tell you most herbalists use about 12 plants regularly. They you know, you get your jam. There's so many pathways to healing, right. There isn't just one and there's certainly not just one plant. There are some plants that do wonderful things but they're just plants and you can have, there's like, you know like skullcap is a nervous system plant, but there's another 30 nervous system plants, you know, in different, like in TCM or in Western herbalism or South. I like, call it South American herbalism. You know, there's all these different plants. And so 12 to 24 plants is a huge array of different plants that you can keep switching up for your dog, especially if those types of plants actually work for your dog. So if you can get like a good five to 10 plants that, you know your dog does well with, you can really up their nutrition, up their, like, get rid of stagnation, make their lymphatics move. I love calendula for dogs that are cool, and I love cleavers for dogs that are warm. Those are my two faves. Love them.

Nice. So there's so much that you have already said, and I'm sure a million more things you could say. And because of that, I know you have some courses that are available for pet parents. Can you. Do you want to talk about those a little bit?

Yeah. I have a few offerings. I'll just go through my offerings. So I have two websites, because my course platform doesn't sell anything. So I have my cons, my consulting and store, which is@k9herbalist.com and then I have my platform, which is canineherbalism.com and on canine herbalism, I have my podcast, which is dogs are individuals. They're found wherever you listen to your podcast. And then I have. That's free. And then I have subscription community. So that's where I will answer any question that you have. We do live trainings every month. I do a live Q and A on the entire platform every month. And you can basically, you know, have access to me, and I will answer questions. I do them. I answer every week, all through the week. And then. And I also share some good content in there, but I do live trainings, and then that's $10 a month. And then I have my monthly monographs, which is plants. So I do one plant every month, and we cover it in depth. This month is parsley. Speaking of parsley. And this month is part. Is this month's parsley, I think. Yeah, this month is parsley, and next month is echinacea, both plants. And then that is $12 a month. And you have full access to all the plants in. In the library at that time. It's kind of. You can't really. It's a weird way to charge for it. So I just charge $12 a month. And it's also a way to support my work. And then I have my canine energetics course. It teaches you how to find out your dog's energetics and it has some great monographs in it. It teaches you what herbs, some introductory herbs for that particular energetic. It also teaches about how dry your dog can be or how damp your dog can be. A lot of dogs are damp these days. And how to kind of solve that and understand your dog as an ecosystem. It's very important and energetics is a great way to do that. So I have that course and then I have my brand new course which is a phytoembryonic therapy training. Now that course is for guardians and dog owners, but also for health professionals, trainers, rescue people, people who do rescue, vets, vet techs and different people, even doctors. I have a couple doctors in the course that is about using plant bud medicine, so plant stem cells for cellular healing. And it's an entire system of medicine that I, that is very dear to my heart. And so that's training and that's a certificate course. So is the energetics course. It's a, it's a pretty big, you know, it's a big course. It's a lot of monographs. There's over 68 of them. So of the different phytoembryonic plants, there are actually liquid remedies. And you can find them here in the States, you can find them in Canada, Australia and all throughout Europe. So they're pretty readily available. And there's about, I would say I'm going to add about 10 more plants, but there's about 75 plant stem cells that, that they use like in Romania. It's an entire system of medicine because pharmaceutical medicine isn't big there and it's recognized by the European Union as a full system of medicine. So I have that course. And do I have anything else? No, I think that's it. But, but my canine. Enter my canine herbalism. Holistic canine herbalism level one course is coming out on March 11th. Oh, a lot of people have been waiting for that. And that will be my kind of like flagship course for all my other courses, except for the phytoembryonics. It will be. I'll have a level two and then a level three, which will be a practitioner's course.

Interesting. Yeah, there's so, so much. And that's, I mean, the, the. I'm sorry, I'm going to say this wrong. Monographs is what you were. Yes, those were the. That sounds so valuable to have access to monographs.

They're not. They're, they're canine monographs and of course, whatever, you know, if it's good for high blood pressure for a canine, it's good for humans too. But the dosage is different. And I go over dosage in every monograph. I include some recipes and how to make, if you know if it's appropriate, how to make a tea, how to make a decoction, how you know, how to use the plant with your dog, from tinctures, extracts, glycerates. They're very in depth and I even include some TCM use and you know the name and it's, it's pretty cool. I do. Eventually it'll be a book, but right now it's just monographs, so.

Yeah, that's exciting. That's very exciting. I'm very interested. Okay. So I feel like you could probably speak on this for weeks and months on end without stopping.

I could keep going on it for hours and hours and hours and hours.

Yeah. But I think you've given pet parents specifically some good starting points. What are your thoughts, Thoughts on some of the. Oh, I'm trying to think of the best word wording for them, but, you know, there are a couple of companies who will kind of put various herbs together for different ailments in dogs.

I'm sorry, formulas?

Yeah, well, yeah, and there are, there are a couple of companies that are doing different formulas that some, some of them are available directly to.

Formulas.

Yeah, well, yeah, and there are, there are a couple of companies that are doing different formula that some, some of them are available directly to pet parents. Some of them you have to get through like a veterinarian to pet parents. Some of them you have to get through like a veterinarian. Do you think? I mean, there's probably some benefit there, but you're not going to get in some dogs. You may not get where you're looking to go without taking a more individualized approach. That's kind of how it seems in my mind.

Well, I do a lot of formulation and for companies like, like you're talking about when you're formulating for the general public, you know, you really want that.

Formula to do you think, I mean, there's probably some benefit there, but you're not going to get in some dogs. You may not get where you're looking to go without taking a more individualized approach. That's kind of how it seems in.

My mind work like 7 out of 10 dogs, you know, that's what your, your goal is. I hope to do some formulating for cool and warm dogs in the future, I'm actually gonna have that in the works. However, formulators in general, you want to see. Well, I do a lot of formulation and for companies like, like you're talking about, like, how cool or how warm that formula is, you know, and then you have a better chance. But just right off the bat, getting the formula, you want to, you know, give the formula. And I like to just take some notes, you know, what's, what's, how's my dog skin? How's their. When you're formulating for the general public, you know, you really want that formula to work, like seven out of 10 dogs, you know, that's what your goal is. I hope to do some formulating for cool and warm dogs in the future. I'm actually going to have that in the eyes. How are things going with them? And then give it four to eight to 12 weeks of time, depending on what kind of thing you're trying to balance out. The more severe, the longer it's going to take. And see if, let's just say a seizure formula. Use some works. However, formulas in general, you want to see. So, like a seizure formula, you'd probably want to give about three months to see if it's going to bring down the seizures. A lot of people don't have patience. You know, it's not a pharmaceutical, it's not a hammer, you know, so, you know, pharmaceuticals are hammers. You know, look at how quick Xanax works. Xanax works in about 20 minutes when you're having a panic attack, right? Like how cool or how warm that formula is, you know, and then you have a better chance. But just right off the bat, getting the formula, you want to, you know, give the. That's because it's a hammer. It opens up the GABA receptors. With a hammer, it knocks the door down. You know, like, we need gaba. But, like, herbs don't do that. They can, you know, like I've. I've had homeopathy work really fast formula, and I like to just take some notes, you know, what's, what's. How's my dog's skin? How's their past? I've had some works work. Some things work really fast. Rescue remedy works pretty fast, but not as good as it does over a long period of time. Giving it every single day, you know, but dried herbs work don't work as fast as a tincture at all. And a lot of dogs that eyes, how are things going with them? And then give it 4 to 8 to 12 weeks. Our taking dried herbs have some assimilation issues. So it's no weeks of time depending on what kind of thing you're trying to. You know, it's being processed as a food and if you're not assimilating things very well, it's just going to take a lot longer to see an effect. I like tinctures because I don't use a lot of medicine. So I'm a drop doser. As a clinician, I do drop dosing. So unless it's something that's major. Right. Balance out, the more severe, the longer it's going to take and see if, let's just say a seizure formula. If we have something major, we're not going to drop dose, but drop dosing. It helps stimulate healing instead of pushing, but sometimes you have to push. Um, so there's just, you know, it's just a huge, there's a huge flux in that. But I think that. So like a seizure formula, you'd probably want to give about three months to see if it's going to bring it. The biggest obstacle for using herbs as patients and expectations, I think, having expectations. What kind of expectations to have? You know, like I'm giving up a seminar for this phytoembryonic company. I'm giving a seminar on in January on the ultra sensitive dog and, you know, throwing down the seizures. A lot of people don't have patients, you know, it's not a pharmaceutical, it's not a hammer, you know, so, you know, pharmaceuticals are hammers. You know, look at how quick Xanax works. Xanax works in about 20 minutes when you're having a panic attack. Right. There's a lot of ultra sensitive dogs out there, dogs that can't eat hardly any proteins. They react to everything. They're itching and scratching, things like that. But a lot of times they're itching and scratching and can't handle everything because pet owners are giving them the kitchen sink in desperation. And a lot of those things that they're getting are making things worse. So like for a sensitive dog, that's because it's a hammer. It opens up the GABA receptors. With a hammer, it knocks the. You really need to do one thing at a time and find their dose, which could be a minuscule pinch of something, even if they're as big as a lab. Right. Because they're so sensitive or could be like one diluted drop of some door down, you know, like we need gaba. But like, and then once their body is okay with that, you can start slowly Adding herbs don't do that. They can, you know, like I've, I've had homeopathy work really fast. I've had some works work, some things work really fast. Rescue remedy works pretty fast. Right. But a lot of times people get, we're so desperate for an alternative type of medicine from what we're getting at our veterinarian. And it's not the veterinarian's fault, it's just that they don't have the education. You know, traditional medicine and western allopathic medicine have not come together and they're not respecting but not as good as it does over a long period of time. Giving it every single one another, which is one of my goals to change. And we need to give that respect so that we can take care of and we can heal these animals. We want to heal. We don't want to just create symptoms that'll die, you know. But dried herbs work, are suppressed because the issue is, is the more we suppress symptoms, the deeper that don't work as fast as a tincture at all. And a lot of dogs that are taking dried herbs have some assimilation issues. So it's no disease goes in the body. And so even like, you know, when you suppress, like when a dog gets a cut, you know, and you start pouring hydrogen peroxide, which slows the healing process, but like you start pouring it on, you're putting everything on ointment, everything. You're suppressing symptoms. The body has its own way to deal with that now. You know, it's being processed as a food and if you're not assimilating things very well, it's just going to take it. If it's not healing, that's a different story. Then we take things to help the wound healing, but you want to give it a chance to heal because suppressing those symptoms does cause an ill effect, in my opinion. So we don't want to suppress, we want to support longer to see an effect. I like tinctures because lots of, lots.

And lots of good tips in there.

But I don't use a lot of medicine. So I'm a drop doser. As a clinician, I'm, I, I do drop dosing. So unless it's something that's major, right.

I think probably the one, the, the one to end on is with the time, the time period, being patient.

You know, if we have something major, we're not going to drop dose but drop dosing. It helps stimulate healing.

Your animal didn't get that way overnight. And if you really want to target the root cause of what's going on, that's not going to happen overnight either. And to be patient and let these things work and let the body use nature to, to support it in its.

Healing process instead of pushing. But sometimes you have to push. So there's just, you know, it's just a huge, there's a huge flux in that. But I think that the biggest obstacle for using herbs is patience and also time. You know, if an expectations, I think having expectations. What kind of expectations to have? If you're dealing with like a cancer dog and you don't know the window of time that you have right, then you may need to use things in what's called a material dose, which is a much larger dose to push the body into submission to buy yourself some time so that you can heal your dog. And with cancer, with cancer dogs, which are more prevalent these days, for sure, you don't know. A lot of times you don't know that window of time. So, you know, and that's when to get some help. Because, you know, like I'm giving a seminar for this phytoembryonic company I'm giving a seminar on. I'm just talking about everyday issues. I'm not talking about, you know, seizure in January on the ultra sensitive dog. And you know, there's. And I do not deal with diabetes and, you know, congested heart failure and cancer, things like that. Those need different types of support and sometimes they need a bridge, like farmers. There's a lot of ultra sensitive dogs out there. Dogs that can't eat hardly any proteins. They react to everything. They're itching and scratching. Surgical medicine can provide a bridge so that you can get to the other side and work with natural plant medicine. I know that, you know, I'm not a huge fan of steroids, but I know they've saved my dog's life one or two times when I was feeding a really poor brand of kibble and it was causing pneumonia. Almost like every couple months they would get pneumonia, things like that. But a lot of times they're itching and scratching and can't handle everything because pet owners are giving them the kitchen sink in desperation. And a lot of those things that they're getting, as soon as I stopped the kibble, the pneumonia went away. But at that time I needed or making things worse. So like, for a sensitive.