How to grow the fastest startup possible (no speed limits): The Case Study Factory

What up, Rob? How's it going, man?

Good. How are you?

I'm doing great. You are headed to Montana, got a big podcast coming out soon with Lenny. You're just like all over the place. What's new?

The cult of demand is growing. Welcome. Always welcoming everyone to it.

Today you are, you've written a lot of good things. I feel like I say this like once every 4 months, This might be the best thing that you've written though, like in terms of clarity for the founder who thinks about their startup that is trying to figure out what to do with it, that like needs a conceptual model. What we're talking about today is the Case Study Factory, and this post is called How to Grow the Fastest. And what you've done here is you've distilled basically a model for what is their startup if they think about it as a system. Not as like disjointed parts. But Rob, one, what is it? Let's start with, you know, what's the context? Why is this on your mind? I really want to dive into why is the case study factory the key for how the answer to how to grow the fastest, but kick us off with, you know, what's going on.

Yeah. So it's funny. I think I've had, so let me brag a little bit. I think I've made 2 really, really important contributions to like business thinking. Nobody else does, but I think I, that's, that's what I, you know, pat myself on the back after a hard day of work about. First one is pull. And when I, when I kind of explained pull to the world, people were like, oh yeah, I get like it, you know, it didn't go viral or anything, but people got it and people use it and people like it. And when you see it, you can't unsee it. And so, Then came the case study factory, which when I realized what the case study factory was, I was like, oh my gosh, this is as big, if not bigger than a poll as a contribution to a way of thinking about business. And then I went and told people about it and I got the like blankest of blank stares. It was just like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I thought case study factory was the like killer idea of everything. And no, like zero people have cared. Literally zero. Every time I talk about it, even on Lenny's, he asks about it and I'm like, dude, every— I know this is important. And every time I talk about it, everyone's eyes glaze over. And then 2 days after recording—

You did the hard sell. Yeah, I know.

Finally,

I

was like, I— but I had given up. I'd basically given up. I'm like, I know this is super important. I'm just going to keep this lodged in the back of my mind and it's going to help me be a magician in a bunch of different ways and nobody else cares about it. So cool, whatever. Yeah. 2 days after recording with Lenny, I was talking with another founder and I just randomly described it in a different way. And instead of that founder just like doing the normal thing, which is just like, praying for sweet death when I talk about it. He actually was like, oh, I get it now. That makes a ton of sense. And then like went immediately and started implementing it. Yeah. So I wish those events had been swapped, first of all. And second, this week I'm trying to explain it in a way that's actually interesting to you, that you, listener, you and you, RC, find to be useful.

Yeah. And I actually started out this describing it the old way. So I may have scared off listeners already. Let's get into the— and if anybody is more of a visual learner, you've got, you have moving images, you have like GIFs in this post.

Moving pictures. We have entered the 1920s.

Rob, okay, so give us the updated version 2.0. Like, why do we care about the Case Study Factory?

Yeah. Okay. So you don't care about the Case Study Factory. You care about one question, which is basically, how do I grow as fast as humanly possible? How do I build one of those startups that just takes off, that does $0 to $1 million in weeks or $0 to $10 million in a couple months, or, you 0 to $100 million in a year, 2 years or whatever. Like, how is that even possible? And when you start thinking about that question, your brain just kind of disassembles. It is such a difficult question because there are so many different things you could do right now that it's unclear what actually matters and what will move the needle. And you have to answer that question Every time you do something new. So every time you say, okay, today or right now, I'm going to focus on this thing, right? Okay. After you're done with that thing, you have to figure out the next thing and the next thing and the next thing forever in order to be able to grow that fast because you're basically bending the curve on your own growth rate. How do you do that? How does that happen when most of the things you could do will have no impact on your growth rate at all? That is the challenge that most of us face in this situation when we're trying to not just grow, but like, how do we grow as fast as possible? How do we grow the fastest? There are, like, you need a way of thinking about this so that you don't have to first principle it every single time. Yeah. You don't have to go to the whiteboard and think, What actually matters? How do I think about what matters? No, you need almost like training wheels for thinking about this so that it would be weird if you didn't do the thing that causes you to grow the fastest.

Yeah. And maybe this is a good moment for founder and audience to think about, like, just ask yourself that question because it's, some of this stuff is going to seem obvious. Until you go back to work, basically. And then it becomes like you're hit in the face with like all of the possible things you could be doing with your time, all of the confusion. But if you had to answer the question, what would I do right now that is going to bend the curve, that is going to change the trajectory of growth? Like the single thing that you would do in order to accelerate the growth of your business. Like what would you do?

And it's not just accelerate the growth. Like that's one piece. What you do right now to accelerate the growth the most out of all of the things you could do? That, right? There is, there's a, okay, just think of all the things you could do. Most of them will have no impact on your growth curve.

Yeah.

But a subset of them, many of them will have some impact on your growth curve. One of them will have the most impact. And if you want to grow the fastest, you need to play whack-a-mole with that thing. Wherever that pops up, you need to be able to hit that every single time if you want to grow super fast. And that's what, again, seeing the startups that have grown the fastest, they do that intuitively.

Hmm.

And they do that intuitively, not because they are like doing some like deep thinking, but because they have a way of thinking that causes them to focus on these things. most important thing right now to bend the growth curve.

Yeah. Let's dig into specifically what that looks like. You called it whack-a-mole, and maybe one thing on whack-a-mole is that you're not whacking the same thing that's popping up in different spots, except it's like it's a different part of the factory. If we think about, I literally picture a package that is moving along a conveyor belt and transforming. Like, that's my mental image for this. Maybe we're going to get into like what exactly that package is and what the conveyor belts are and how it like transforms or moves. But first, one thing that you do in this, there's actually a really interesting observation that you have that I won't spend a lot of time on, but it's, there's no law of physics limiting your growth. Like there's, I don't know, I had like this kind of mental block of like, there's fast-growing startups, but like, the fastest I could possibly do was this. You're like, no, that's not true. You're like, companies grow extremely fast and there's no untenable ratio as long as you're attracting, as long as you're tackling like the most important bottleneck in the business.

Yeah. Like an example of that, by the way, HubSpot was the 2nd fastest growing software company in history at the time to Salesforce. They did $0 to $25 million ARR in 5 years or something like that. And that was considered insane back in the day. Again, I don't know the exact stats, but like, I know 3 startups that have beaten them like in the last year, personally. And so there's no, there is, I linked to a great article that's called There's No Speed Limit. Yeah. This is a really important thing because there's no reason— there's basically 2 constraints, which I get to at the very end of the article. Basically, how much pull is there in the market right now? That is the maximum number of people you could sell to right

now.

Cool. That is the ultimate constraint. You should be— there's no reason that you're not hitting all of that right now. And then the second constraint is just how good are you at doing that? It's just your ability to do that. And so, yeah, that is just like a common thing. And, you know, I've seen a lot of startups that like shoot for some random metric, 30% growth month on month, which is technically fast growth. There's a startup that I was helping out. It was like, okay, cool. Looking at these metrics, there's no reason you couldn't double that. There's no reason, there's nothing stopping you. From growing twice as fast.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. There's something else there to dig into, but my brain's not there yet, so we're just gonna, we're gonna keep going. Yeah. You do this thing early in the, to make this, give examples, like to help make it something that founder can identify with in their own business. You write about thinking about bottlenecks as Starting by inversion, how basically asking yourself, if our goal were to not grow as fast as possible, what are the things that we would do? And you write, here's a couple of them. Serve a bunch of different kinds of customers with a bunch of different kinds of solutions. Exert a ton of effort convincing each customer to buy, which is push instead of pull. Have a ton of drop-off in your sales and post- sales process so that you're spending time on people that aren't successful customers, add unnecessary and counterproductive steps into the buying and post-sale process, build features that are irrelevant to sales, spend a bunch of time and effort changing things that don't make you grow faster. Those sound like sort of silly, but they're also things that happen. And so, you know, Rob, what are you thinking? Like, why do you start from inversion? Are there any here that you would call out as like, Actually secretly slipping into, you know, Founder's, you know, factory or whatever without them being aware.

Well, so I— this— I couldn't find a way into the factory from here. So this was the only way that could kind of make sense to me to find a way in to describe just how difficult the problem is, right? Like, These are a bunch of ways that all of us do by deep— these are, these are, it's not like a, you might be doing one of them. I can guarantee you, you are doing all 6 of these things. If you're, if you're a startup, I would guarantee that you, that the majority of your time is spent doing these 6 things. And that's that. But I want to set that up just to frame how difficult It is to do the opposite of those 6 things. You basically have to like minimize variation. You need to minimize waste. You need to eliminate unnecessary steps. You need to focus on just pull versus push. And you need to do, you need to figure out what the constraint is and, and, and, and invest every ounce of effort in Continuous improvement on whatever the constraint is as it moves. Now, that is really, really hard to do if you're just sitting there thinking about it. And that kind of frames how difficult it is to grow as fast as possible just by thinking about it without these kind of like training wheels of this model that will tell you Okay. What actually is worth your time? Where are you not doing the thing that's going to cause you to grow the fastest? Where is there kind of waste? Like these things aren't necessarily visible to us unless we have some way to make them visible, make them intuitive to us.

Yeah. I kind of think about my website. It's like every single day I open my, if I opened my website, I could find something to work on there because it was imperfect. And, but that would not, that fixing my website continually and optimizing it neglects, like the reason that's the wrong thing to do is because it's not the constraint in the growth of my business. And you can apply that.

That is a, like, whenever I find that it's almost 100% the case that when somebody thinks it's their website or their messaging, it is not like, that is a signal of something way deeper that you're not doing. And, but anyway, that's an aside.

Yeah. Okay. So established, there's a ton of things that you could be doing. The objective is find the one thing that is going to change, that is going to accelerate your growth the fastest or the most. Rob, let's bring in the Case Study Factory and the machines that are in it. Can you just like explain this thing to us?

Yeah. So, so, okay. So the, so the concept here is that those 6 things that are really easy to do to, to not grow as fast as possible, and they're in the inverted version, which is really hard to do, to minimize variation, minimize waste, compress everything, eliminate unnecessary steps, focus on what actually improves. All of those things are things that manufacturing thinking has focused on. In extreme detail for the last 100 years. And so they just give us, like, they have gifted us all of this thinking. We should accept the gift. And so if you look at your startup as a factory, you can then apply manufacturing thinking to the factory. Yeah. The important thing though is what the heck does this factory produce? And if you get that thing wrong, you're going to be optimizing the entire factory for the wrong output. So, for example, common thing is everyone's talking about software factories. Software factory. Oh, my business, I'm building a software factory, right? And it's like, that's a subcomponent of the real factory that you're building. But everyone's asking themselves a question like, how do I know the quality of the output of the factory? And it's like, yeah, you don't, because it's a subsystem in a broader factory. And if you're thinking about lines of code or, like, the production of a software factory has to refer to what customers care about. Is it delivering what customers are caring about? So that tells you it's a subsystem in a broader thing.

Mm-hmm.

If you just focus on revenue as the output of the factory, well, you can do a bunch of dumb things in pursuit of revenue that crush your growth in the end. And so we know it's not revenue. It, and if we focus on revenue, right, we're not going to get that kind of continuous improvement, that the, the minimizing waste, that's not going to happen by default. And so the structure of the factory here has to be, what does a startup produce? It produces case studies, successful customers, And it produces case studies that are basically identical to one another because we want to minimize variation. That's the whole point. We want to minimize variation, put a bunch of volume through the factory. As we are able to put more volume through the factory of nearly identical things that don't require us to like scramble around the factory, that's what increases our growth rate. It's the output of the factory, the throughput of the factory. Is what matters. And so it produces case studies. And then there are steps of the factory that go from somebody not knowing who we are to being a case study customer. It's basically the entire customer journey are different steps in this factory. I think of 3. First step is pipeline. How do we get people to talk to us or come to our website or whatever? Step 2 is sales. How do we turn potential customers into actual customers? Or how do they turn from potential customers into actual customers? Step 3 is delivery. How do we turn actual customers into customers who are successful, who renew, who don't churn, who tell other people about it, right?

Mm-hmm.

And that is, they become a case study at that point, and they should look just like our other customers. And those, and basically everything a startup does ladders up to that That those 3 machines and that overall case study factory.

Let's take a couple pieces of this because it took me time. I think you introduced this concept to me 2 years ago, 3 years ago, like, and it, now I love it. I'm like medium addicted to it. It's how I think about my startup. But at the same time, like it took, It took a while. So let's, I want to hit those 3 machines, but first let's talk about a case study. Like my intuition about a case study was basically like came from consulting. It was like a slide that we put in front of a new client to tell them that we had done this work before so that hopefully they bought whatever it was that the partners were selling. You're referring to something specific with the case study. What, what is it? And can you give us an example of, uh, an example or 2 of like, what does a case study look like for a specific startup? Or if you need to genericize it, you can.

Yeah. So a case study is, um, certain person at certain company was trying to do something right now for some reason. They considered their available options and those options weren't good enough. So we offered them something that unblocked them. And as a result, they were able to do XYZ. That's the kind of rough structure of a case study. It's a story.

Which people will recognize as pull. Like you've put pull into a package.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's basically pull, what we offer, so what, and you just package that all together. That is a case study. It just reads like a case study. It reads like a story. And yeah, and that is essentially the only piece of collateral you need.

And it's what you want from the case study is for a person to read a case study or be told case study or see case study, whatever it is, and think, that is me. I am the pre-part of the case study and I want to get to the other end of the case study. And they identify with The most important elements of pull. They understand the connection with supply, that your product, your solution, whatever it is that you're offering, and the outcome is the thing that they are trying to achieve.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Okay.

So pull, how we help, and what's their unblocked life look like?

And so how does, like, if I, if I think about like that thing in a box, the goal is to, is it like I don't know, conceptualizing this. I'm sorry, I'm going to take this too far. It's like, take new customer, put them in their own box and create a successful, like they, they, they purchase the solution, it's implemented and they end up as the happy, a new happy case study, basically.

So customer shows up with pull. They show up with pull. That's the whole point of pull. Pull exists before your startup exists. They show up with pull as a potential customer in the pipeline step. We need some way to get them to show up. But that's the pipeline step. And they just show up with pull. They say, here's what my pull is. Then we have sales, which is again, basically what I've been describing in sales is it's just have them tell you what their pull is, describe what your supply is, and see if they pull or what they do. And you can use a case study as part of that. A lot of people do, but it's still just a case study that's like, Here's other people's poll. Does this look like you? Yes. Here's what they wanted. Does that look like you? Yes. Cool. And then, and then the sales process is just, is just that. There's a little bit more nuance to it, but not that much. That's the essence of the sales process.

Mm-hmm.

And then once they've bought, okay, we know what outcome they are shooting for, right? We know what they're trying to, we know what their unblocked life is because we talked about that in the sales process. And so it's just getting them there. And so we kind of go through the process. They, it's basically pipeline is they show up with pull. Sales is we kind of show a case study of somebody who had pull, who looks like them and what we did for them. And they say, yeah, that's what I want. Delivery is we help them become that.

Done. Yeah. And then they either, you mentioned their unblocked life. It's like, Which might be a subscription, it might be a project that you have delivered for them and it gives them the thing that they wanted. It's like the happy satisfied customer at the end of it. And for folks that are watching on Apple or Spotify or YouTube, I just pulled up, if you're not watching, I'll drop the link for this, for Rob's Substack in the show notes, pull it up because Rob has visual, like given basically the visual of Imagine this is the flow diagram of a startup's factory and it goes potential customers and then you hit the 3 machines, pipeline, sales, and delivery. And then, you know, the product of the delivery is the packaged case study essentially that you can then, you know, kind of like feeds the sales actually part of it or feeds the pipeline part of it. And there's also this important element here that you haven't hit yet, which is the drop-off. Like there's waste. Mm-hmm. That happens in each of these steps, which is also, you know, a big part of manufacturing and you're trying to minimize waste. What do you do with that element of this, Rob?

Yeah. So when you look at your startup as a factory, not as a funnel, not as a, like, whatever, when you look at it as a factory, you're then able to import like manufacturing thinking into it. And manufacturing thinking is all about How do we, how do we, like, how does someone pull through the factory with the least amount of waste?

Hmm.

And how do we eliminate unnecessary steps? What does waste look like? How do we root cause analyze where things are getting stuck here? And that's the thingy. So what I tend to find when I look at the typical startup sales calls, when they come to me, What I find is that roughly 95% of what happens in their sales calls is waste. It is not just like unhelpful. It is counterproductive. It is convincing the person not to buy. And so when you eliminate that, then, right, you're, you're making the sales process more effective, compressing it. You're reducing unnecessary steps. Unclear why, but everyone seems to believe you need an ROI calculation. in your sales process. I don't get it. I don't get why everyone thinks they need a group demo in their sales process. And you just, and so, and so all of these steps are added in when they're actively counterproductive. And so when you have this conceptual model in your head, you then start asking the question, okay, what's minimum necessary to get through the sales process? What do they actually need? And you design, you redesign your sales process around that and you continuously improve it. When it's the constraint. And you figure out what the constraint is in the manufacturing system by saying, okay, if we improved this part, like, let's consider improving all the different parts in the system. Based on what, how do we decide which to improve? Yeah. Well, you improve the one where if it improves the mode, if it improves the output of case studies on a given unit of time, increases the most. That's how you grow the fastest. And that's what manufacturing thinking gives you. You find the constraint.

Yeah. And what that— maybe real quick, I realized I didn't get the examples. Can you give me 2 examples, 1 or 2 examples of a case study? Like, what is— yeah, what does that look like?

Yeah. Okay. Let's just do like mine with Lovable. That's like a classic one, or even yours with Lovable recently, as we could talk about. Which is, I want to create a website. I want to update a website that reflects my kind of brand needs or whatever. Right now, because I don't know, I'm about to release a book, that's my case, I'm about to release a book and my Google Doc website is not good enough. But I consider using Squarespace or Wix or one of those point-and-click ones. And I, the limitations on that are I don't hate myself enough to spend 5 hours clicking around in a point-and-click thing. I don't have the skill or patience to do that. So I am right, like I am stuck in that situation. Lovable comes around and says, hey, maybe just tell us what you want to build and we will do it for you. And so I just rage type a 3-paragraph essay and I have a website. And it's done. And so, and so that's like the example, but every single example of pull that we've given in this podcast, in all of my newsletters and everything that like, those are all just case studies.

Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Thanks. Just wanted to bring that. And actually I kind of liked that one because literally I heard your case study and it pulled, and then I pulled through that and like switched my website to Lovable because I also had a deadline that I was going to hit and I needed to not need to wrestle with a website for 15 hours or 20 hours or whatever, multiple weeks. Anyways, let's, okay, you just brought up constraints. Okay, so pipeline, sales, delivery, like, okay, I get it. You gotta find people or they've gotta find you. I've gotta sell to them. I've gotta deliver it to them. Why is, pretend I'm an idiot, which shouldn't be super hard.

Why is it— What have I been doing this whole time?

Yeah, exactly. Why, where does constraints come in? Like, what does a constraint look like? You know, choose, let's say that it's, let's put it in the middle. Actually, sales is your constraint. It's not pipeline and it's not delivery. What, like, what does that constraint look like and why is that the thing that you need to tackle rather than optimizing pipeline or optimizing delivery?

Yeah. So, with that, what that would look like is You are having 20 sales calls a week and no, nobody is buying, or like very few people of those are actually turning into customers and they're dropping off for a variety of reasons. And so what you can see there is like, okay, cool. If I make my product better in that situation, it's not gonna matter because I'm having 19 sales calls per week that are not converting into customers. If I increase the number of, if I double the amount of sales calls I have per week, my life just gets double as bad, like twice as bad. I, I, so there is, if I like improve that, the pipeline step here, it's not going to change things

really.

It's like, it's not going to improve the number of case studies that I produce at the end of this factory.

And especially for a

Yeah.

Like for a software or for an AI solution where delivery is basically unconstrained frequently there. It's like, you know, there's probably some setup, but that is probably not the constraint or it might not. It's, you know, you can infinitely focus on improving your products or, you know, but as long as sales is the constraint and you mentioned like they're either not converting, it can also take the form of it takes 6 months to sell to them or, you know, it's It involves a bunch of—

It takes all of my effort to close these deals. Every one is magical. Like it could be, it could be a variety of things like that to where we say, okay, cool. Let's— right. Improving pipeline is not going to change things. Improving delivery is not going to change the kind of production of case studies, the like throughput, the amount of output of case studies here. And And so we're like, okay, cool. The constraint on growth is the sales process. Then we can also, we can import a bunch of other, like manufacturing people have thought about this a lot. They have a concept called 5 Whys, which is you just try to figure out, okay, why is our conversion rate so low? Why is it doing? And then we just get down to the root cause of that, attack whatever that thing is, and then your constraint will move. So let's say it's Oh, it turns out, this is very common. Uh, it turns out that our sales problem, the reason we're converting 1 out of 20 customers when we're having 20 calls per week is that we are targeting the wrong kind of person. We're targeting a person who doesn't have pull, right? That's an example. Okay, cool. So what do we do? We change targeting for the pipeline step and then we say, okay, cool. Now we have 20 meetings a week and 10 of them convert or something like that. It's like, okay, cool. Now there's probably another constraint in the factory. There's like, maybe it's still the sales step because when we look at the number of people, you have 20 sales calls per week, 18 of them have pull, but only 10 of them close. Then the question is, okay, what, what's going on with those other 8? And you go and root cause analyze that and say, okay, this is, if we can solve this, We're going to go from 10 to 18 case studies produced per week or whatever it winds up being, but just illustrative. But this is the kind of, and the kind of the interesting thing here is this is, you just ask the same question every single day. What's the constraint? What do we, and therefore, what do we need to dig into, get to the root cause, ship a fix, and then move to the next one?

Yeah. So that's actually a good exercise. If any unfortunate founder has made it this, you know, 32 minutes into our conversation, um, Like, just ask yourself, like, where, where is the constraint? And if, um, Rob, let's say that they do— founders, you work with dozens, hundreds of founders at this point. Do they all know where the constraint is in their business?

No, no, just add as an add AI Rob or, or whatever. Like, uh, what I've designed AI Rob so you can plug it into your data and it will tell you what your constraint is. And so, um, feel free to give that a try or You know, I'm happy, right? In a, in a 10 minutes of me grilling you, we can figure out what your constraint is.

Yeah.

But the questions I'm asking are at the end here. It's like, okay, what is pull? What is your case study? And then like, okay, how many meetings are you having per week? How many of those convert? How many of those, how many of those turn into actual customers? It's pretty straightforward. I'm just like, I'm just speccing out the factory in my head.

Yeah. You know, there's one other thing that you write, Rob, here that I want to pull in because it seems obvious, is actually not super intuitive, and is different, meaningfully different from what a lot of startup theory out there or, you know, what a lot of popular or whatever that everybody has heard tells you you should be focused on. And what you're saying is, Think of your startup as a case study factory, focus on the constraint. Here are some other things. If you could just like rip into these real quick. You write, importantly, you do not get this intuition from any other way of looking at your startup. You're either building a product or selling it gets you none of this. Neither does thinking about the company as a quote unquote software factory or a vehicle for your vision, nor does optimizing for revenue, thinking about marketing as a funnel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You mentioned the software factory. When I hear that, I'm like, okay, that's actually the delivery machine is like, it's like a part of that. Thinking of the marketing as a funnel, like why are these the wrong way to be conceptualizing and making decisions about where to spend your time as a founder?

Yeah. So one is like, if you think about marketing as a funnel and sales as something else, You're gonna be using different ways, different things to analyze these different parts of the same factory. And so, but also thinking of marketing as a funnel, you're not gonna like apply the theory of constraints to a funnel. It's just like, oh, here's the number of leads we get and here's that, right? And this is just not how it's— so you don't get to apply manufacturing thinking to that. And so you don't get all the benefit of 100 years of manufacturing thinking. about how to make things go faster and work better and eliminate waste if you don't use a factory kind of concept.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rob, let's, we're going to need to wrap here in a moment. You basically kind of gave the takeaway a moment ago, but just to reinforce it, founder who is listening at this point, what should they do? What would you tell them if you were looking at them right now? Like, What should they do as a result of starting to think about their case study as a fact, or excuse me, as their startup as a case study factory?

Yeah. So there are basically 2 things, 2 things I want to beam into your brain. Thing one is pull and all the implications of pull. Thing 2 is the case study factory and tells you exactly where to focus right now. If you just do those 2 things and let those tell you what to do, then you're by default going to do the stuff to grow the fastest. And that's what I want you to do because I want you to break every damn record there is in growth. And so go do that.

Yeah, love it. And that's typically, you mentioned this, any founder that's listening to this and is like trying to wrap their brain around it or thinking about like, where's my constraint? Or maybe they know where their constraint is. And they don't know how to attack it most efficiently. That's like typically your first session with like a founder that works with you. And so if you're interested in working with Rob, just a quick plug, drop me a note, rc@reframeb2b.com, or just, yeah, reach out, go to the website, robsnyder.org, and there's a button that you can click to fill out a form to— anyways, agnostic of that, hopefully this gives you everything that, you know, you need to cause your startup to take off. And we'll look forward to hearing. We get email. I love it when we get emails from time to time that are like, hey, we listened, we've been following Rob for a long time, and our startup just achieved major milestone. Those are really cool. So like, send that, you know, drop it in the comments or send us an email.

No one sends that to me. Come on, send that to me too. You're getting all the love.

Whatever.

All right.

Yeah, that's because I'm very approachable, Rob.

Yeah. Okay.

All right. Awesome. And we will, uh, yeah, so, uh, Lenny podcast, we'll also drop that in the notes whenever it's live, but, uh, that, that'll be coming out soon. Um, it's a big one and we're, we'll be excited to catch everybody here in a week. See y'all.