How To BUILD INFLUENCE & Understand The Psychology of Persuasion w/ Robert Cialdini, Ph.D EP 1164

You know how people sometimes invest in something that seems incredible at first, but then it doesn't live up to the hype? Like when everyone was convinced NFTs were the future and people were buying them for thousands of dollars, and now they barely have any value. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that: bull spend. Instead, you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn Ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com/lewis. Terms apply.

Dell PCs with Intel Inside are built for the moments you plan and the moments you don't.

They're for those all-night study sessions, the moment you're working from a cafe and realize every outlet is taken, the times you're deep in your flow and can't be interrupted by an auto update. That's why Dell builds tech that adapts to you. Built with long-lasting batteries so you're not scrambling for an outlet and built-in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. Find technology built for the way you work at dell.com/pcs/built4you. Hiring isn't just filling seats. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, they'll help you match with candidates who can actually move your business forward. Target candidates by skills, certifications, or location. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help you get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed.

This is episode number 1164 with Robert Cialdini. Welcome to the School of Greatness.

My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur, and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Welcome back, everyone. My guest today is Dr. Robert Cialdini, and he is an award-winning behavioral scientist who is known as the foundational expert in the science of influence and how to apply it ethically in business and elsewhere. And his principles of persuasion have become the cornerstone for any organization serious about increasing their effectiveness in sales, leadership, marketing management, and communication. He is a 3-time New York Times bestselling author with more than 5 million copies sold throughout the world. He's back with a new expanded version of his bestselling book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. This book was critical in my personal self-development journey over the last decade, so I'm extremely excited to have spoken with Robert and share with you what we're about to talk about today, which is the 7 principles of persuasion and how they can build influence in your life and business. Real-life studies that showcase the power of these principles of persuasion today, how changing the way you speak even slightly can make a drastic difference. And this part blew my mind. Just simple little words can really transform everything. The biggest mistake people make when trying to influence others, and so much more that you're going to love about this episode. I really geeked out during this because there's so much around human psychology that I feel like we can always learn about to just improve the quality of our life and our relationships and our business and more. If you're inspired by this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. Quick reminder, if you haven't subscribed to the School of Greatness yet, click the subscribe button right now over on Apple Podcasts Spotify. You can check us out on YouTube as well and follow us over on social media @LewisHowes, as well as give us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts because we like to share the Fan of the Week throughout every episode. And today's Fan of the Week is from Marcus, who said, I am on a mission to live my best life. Lewis Howes' School of Greatness podcast is the rocket fuel getting me there. This is my go-to podcast for the tools and strategies that will help me live The life I imagine and being relentless and living in greatness isn't easy, but this podcast and his guests remind me to keep going and never give up. Greatness comes by staying true to who we are. Let the School of Greatness podcast guide inspirational, thought-provoking, life-changing. So Marcus, thanks for your review and your feedback. You're the fan of the week. We appreciate you. Again, if you guys want to have the chance to be shouted out on the podcast, go leave a review on Apple Podcast right now. Okay. In just a moment, the one and only, Dr. Robert Cialdini. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I am very excited about our guest. Dr. Robert Cialdini is in the house. Good to see you, sir. How you doing?

I'm well, Lewis. Good to be with you and, uh, your followers.

Yes. I'm very excited about this. For those that have been following me for a long time, um, I read your book Influence. I think it was in 2009 when I read it, maybe it was 2008, 2009. And within months, literally within months, my business started to take off, my community started to grow, and opportunities started to flood my way. And I remember people telling me in the online marketing world, you've got to read this book, as I started to kind of launch my online marketing business in 2008, 2009. And I started to implement a few key principles that you have laid out in your book And again, within weeks and months, things started to come in. And so I'd love to go over some of these principles first for people who haven't read your book. There's been over 5 million copies sold, so people need to get the book and go through it. But for those who haven't read it, I'd love to go into it and then talk about the— I guess it's the next principle that you've discovered in the expanded version of the book. So I'd love to go over each one of these if you're okay with worth going into that, and also how you discovered these principles as main factors of influence. What was the basis for the research, the studies? I know you have hundreds of peer-reviewed studies that kind of back and prove these things, but— and, uh, and kind of go through it. So the, the first one, which is, I think, um, is reciprocity— reciprocation, I guess you'd call it.

Yeah.

Why is that? It's kind of like the old give and take you know, let me give you something and then you want to give me something in return. How did that come about as a main, I guess, law of influence for you?

Well, you know, it came about in the way that all of them did, which was that I decided I needed to get out of my laboratory and off my college campus to really understand what were the factors that moved people powerfully and consistently in the direction of a communicator's request or proposal recommendation. And I did it by answering ads for to be trained in any of the major influence professions of our society. I took training in how to sell automobiles, how to sell insurance, how to sell portrait photography over the phone. But I didn't stop there. I also did the same thing, infiltrated training programs incognito. Disguised identity, disguised intent. They didn't know why I was there. I was there to learn what they had learned over decades and decades of what moves people in their direction. So I did that with fundraisers, I did it with recruiters, I even did it with cult specialists. How do the cults get us to move into their, their orbit and keep us there. And what I looked for were the commonalities. What worked across all of those various influence professions whose economic livelihood, after all, depends on the success of getting people to say yes to them. And what I found just shocked me in how small the footprint was. I only counted 6 universal principles of influence that seem to work in each of those domains to move people. And the first one, as you rightly suggested, was the rule for reciprocation that says people feel a drive to give back to others who have first given to them, right? So there are a lot, there are a lot of different ways that we can move people in our direction. One is if people see that they owe us, they say yes to us. They say yes to the next request we make of them. So what it means is that we have to go first. We have to give benefits, we have to give information, we have to give advantages, we have to give concessions, and that comes, that flows back to us by the rule that exists in every human culture. Turns out the anthropologists have shown us there's not a single human society that fails to train its youth in this rule: you must not take without giving in return. So what it tells me is that we have to flip the script of the usual business arrangement with people where we say to them, you do something for us first, you buy my product, you sign my a contract, you make an agreement with me, a commitment to me, and then I will give back to you what I hope you will accept. This one says, yeah, that's fine, but there's another route where we go first, we give, and then people want by this rule to give to us. There's a lovely study that was— it's not even published yet, conducted in McDonald's restaurants in Colombia and Brazil, so, you know, in South America, where they did a promotion one week. Every family that came in, the kids got a balloon as a nice thank you for coming in. Half of them got the balloon as they were leaving. Each of the kids got a balloon, thank you for You know, patronizing McDonald's, please come again. The other half got the balloon as they entered. Those families' sales went up. Yeah, 25% more food.

Wow.

Now here's the thing.

For a balloon, a simple little 10-cent balloon.

For a balloon. Now here's the thing I love about that. If you look into the data closely, that 25% increase in buy included 20% higher coffee orders. The kids weren't offering getting the coffee, the parents were. The, the parents were grateful for what their kids got and they were going to buy more. This has to do with the last principle that we'll talk about later, the principle of unity. But here's the takeaway: any favor you do for my child, you have done for me.

Interesting. You make my child happy, I'm happier, and I want to thank you.

And I'm good. That's right. I'm not just thankful, I'm obligated. I'm, I'm both grateful and obligated by this rule to to give in return.

Why do we feel— yeah, why do we feel this obligation? Is it trained culturally or society? Is it kind of innate in our human DNA or our psychology or the way our brain works, the chemistry? Why are we— why do we feel obligated to give something in return when someone gives something to us?

Because the first of your, uh, candidates, I think, is the— is the major one, that we are socialized from childhood into this rule Because that rule, if it exists in any culture, makes the culture thrive because people give back and forth. They, they'll— it allows them to, to be specialized in a particular area where they can have an input, and then somebody gives them something that they don't have in their particular area. And it also allows people to cooperate toward a common goal. If this rule didn't exist, why would I ever give something first to you, right, with the risk of losing it, right? For the first time in evolutionary history now, there's a rule that allows us to give something without giving it away. We don't give it away. It comes back to us. And so we're now freed to begin economic exchanges that require that we trust the other person will not just take this. So, you know, in every human language, we have very nasty names for people who take without giving in return. And we don't want to be saddled with those names. I know in English we call them moochers, right?

Yes, I've been that in my life. I had no money and I was broke and I was sleeping on my sister's couch for about a year and a half. I was a moocher because I was like, uh, and it doesn't feel good, you know, mooching off my sister, eating her food, you know, not paying rent, not working. And I was like, that's when I started to study your work.

You can't wait. I mean, you're on the balls of your feet waiting to get in a position to help in return when she might need something.

Oh, and that's, that's all I wanted to do was constantly give back. It's funny because I was talking about this a couple days ago actually. For the last, I don't know, 8 years, I feel very uncomfortable when I go to dinner or lunch or coffee with someone, I feel very uncomfortable for them paying for me. I almost always pay, almost always, unless someone is like, somehow sneaks their credit card in before me with the waiter or something. And it's because for almost 2 years, I couldn't, like everyone else had to pay for me and I feel, I feel obligated to pay the debt back.

Isn't that interesting?

I feel obligated. It's been a decade and I still feel like, ah, I just need to keep paying and paying it. Like, I feel the obligation and, you know, I don't feel bad about it. It just feels hard to receive because I know that was a mooch for almost 2 years. And, uh, you know, you're— I, I believe you're close with Adam Grant who talks about this in his book Give and Take. And then there's another book called Giftology by John Ruhlin. I'm not sure if you've heard of Robert Cialdini.

Both of those I've read and recommend.

Yeah, the principles of kind of giving first and not waiting for someone to buy, but giving first. I'm curious, in the online marketing world where it seems like every website is trying to give you something to opt in, is there ever too much saturation of giving where people— or diminishes the opportunity to connect or someone to opt in or to buy. Is there ever kind of too much saturation where it numbs us, or is this always going to work?

Well, it, it is diminished where we don't see the gift as something genuine but just as a device that you give to everybody. It's not— you don't— you're not trying to benefit me, you're trying to just get me to feel obligated. So For me, there's good evidence on this. The more we can personalize what we give, the more people feel like they really want to give back. And here's another study that shows that. It's also in a fast food restaurant. People came into the shop and half of them were greeted warmly and then went to the counter. Another group of them was given a gift, a little key ring, a nice expensive key ring, right? And the third group was given a small cup of yogurt. Now, those who were given the key ring bought 12% more food than those who weren't given anything, just as we said, right? But those given The yogurt bought 24% more food.

Why is that?

Why do you go to a restaurant? Because you're hungry.

You're hungry. So if you give us some food, you—

I personalize the gift to your challenges, your needs, what you prefer in that moment, and I double— wow— your likelihood.

So it's not a random gift, it's something you came in for already, some hunger. I wonder if they did an extra study where it said you get to choose the flavor and it was specialized to you even more. I wonder if that— how that would work.

But that's a— that's interesting. I don't know. Uh, there's, uh, there's another principle of social proof that we'll get to later.

Yes.

That says if, um, I— let's say it's a dessert, it was in a McDonald's, and they have various kinds of, uh, of, uh, additions you can put on, you know, sprinkles or Oreos. If you, if you tell people what the most, um, popular addition is, uh, it, it raises the willingness to get additions by 45%. Wow. So we'll get to that, the idea that you can ask people and give them an option and tell them in the, in the process what a lot of people like them prefer.

Yes, I think, yeah, I think of See's Candy, um, where you go in, they give you a piece of free chocolate, like you get to kind of pick the chocolate. Yeah, yeah, you're liking— it's like, yeah, I want this piece, and they always give a free piece of chocolate. To anyone. And sometimes they'll give you a couple pieces where it's like, now I want to buy more. It's just this feeling of obligation of like, of course I want to buy. And just the fact that you know you can go into the store and get a free piece— you could walk out if you want to, but just the knowing I can go into See's Candy Store, I can get a piece of chocolate I want. Yeah, I'm gonna feel like obligated, so I'm gonna do it anyways.

But, um, to, to your question, how do you do this online? Yes, how do you personalize? Well, If you have a particular expertise, right, and you know that people are following you because they want that particular thing, you give them something like the top 3 things you can do to enhance your success on this particular topic, in this particular dimension that you're, that you're here for. Here, or here are the top 5 mistakes that people should avoid in buying insurance or selecting, you know, motorcycle parts, whatever it is, right? It shouldn't be something that specifically enhances your business because that is seen as a device now. That's just You're just promoting yourself. No, what will make you a better consumer, a better, uh, reviewer, a better, uh, decision maker in this particular field? Give that first, right? People will feel indebted for that.

Yeah, I'm always of the mindset of like, give as much of your best stuff up front for free. Like, give as much value as possible. And, and let people just be like, man, this is unbelievable. This is the authority, which we'll go into a little bit later. And when you showcase your value and people realize, wow, no one else in this space is giving like this, I trust this person more, I like this person more, you know, all the things that we're going to talk about here. Is there—

I agree with you on that. And there are, there are people who argue with me that no, no, no, don't give away your best stuff. No, no, don't, you'll save that. Wait a minute. How do people know what your best stuff is unless you give them a sample of it?

You got to give a sample. Is there a diminishing return based on the season of your gift giving? For example, it doesn't seem like there is with See's Candy. When people come in, they've been doing this for probably decades where you get a free piece of chocolate. But talking about in maybe the online marketing world or online business world, If you're just giving the same PDF or video series or audio series for 3, 5, 10 years in a row, are there diminishing returns for that season? Should we be changing up the, the give every 6 to 12 months? Have you seen any research around that?

Yes, we should, because it turns out that what we give, if it is new, if it is unexpected, increases the likelihood of, uh, the amount that people give back to us.

Interesting.

Um, and, uh, because it's once again, not just the same thing.

One of the biggest money mistakes I see people make is waiting for the perfect time to get serious about their finances.

And I've been there myself. It can be easy to say you'll just deal with it later, but later has a way of showing up fast.

And that brings us to today's sponsor, Northwestern Mutual.

They'll match you with a financial professional who'll work with you to build a plan based on what's important to you, looking out for your blind spots and finding new opportunities to help grow your wealth and protect what you've worked so hard for.

They listen to you, find out what's going on in your life today and what you have in mind for the near and long term.

Personally, Northwestern Mutual has been behind my financial and emotional security as an entrepreneur most of my life.

Having someone in my corner helps me make clearer decisions and stay focused on building a future I am proud of. Find a better way to money at NM.com. The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company. Paid testimonial by a Northwestern Mutual policy owner. There's nothing that frustrates me more than when things don't move with speed. And when it comes to building a strong daily routine for your life, the tools that you rely on at home should make things run more smoothly, without interruptions. And that's the thinking behind T-Mobile's 5G home internet. And big news, T-Mobile now has the fastest 5G home internet according to the experts at Ookla Speedtest. Setup is so quick and simple, no technician needed, and you're online in 15 minutes or less. And the price comes with a 5-year price guarantee, so you don't have to worry about unexpected price hikes down the road. And when I'm working from home, my internet does a lot of the heavy lifting. It's prepping for the next show on The School of Greatness, uploading files. I'm doing Zoom calls. I'm doing meetings. All these different things are all happening and I need them to happen fast. And with T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, things move fast and stay smooth. Pages load quickly, files upload successfully, and I can stay focused without constant interruptions. It makes a big difference. Visit t-mobile.com/homeinternet to check availability today. Price guarantee exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Fastest based on Ookla Speedtest Intelligence data, second half of 2025. All rights reserved. Running a small business is tough, and when it comes time to get a loan, it can feel almost impossible to find someone you actually trust.

Big banks say no, and online it's a mix of offers that feel unclear with rates and terms that are hard to navigate.

That kind of uncertainty can slow your momentum. Whether you need help covering payroll, managing cash flow, or investing in growth, you deserve better options. If you're in the small business marketplace, you need Fundera powered by NerdWallet. It's a free, easy-to-use platform where you can compare real finance financing offers from trusted lenders all in one place. No perfect credit needed, no spam, just options that fit your business. And here's the best part: for a limited time, when you visit nerdwallet.com/greatness and fill out the no-obligation form, you'll get VIP treatment and talk with a real person who knows all the ins and outs of small business lending. Don't risk your business on unreliable lenders. Go to nerdwallet.com/greatness to find the funding you deserve. Fundera Inc., NMLS ID number 1240038.

It's, it's more personal It's— you've updated it for us, so that makes it feel, uh, you know, more, um, unique.

Yeah, unique and, and rare and interesting and all these things.

Yeah.

Um, what else around reciprocation should we be aware of that's important for us? And is there any downside?

Yeah.

To, to how much you can give? Like, is there— yeah, you know, um I'm spending so much money on this give and it's not working in terms of making me money. Is there a downside there?

Well, there is a downside, and I'll give you an example of what I found is a mistake that people make after they have done something that is truly beneficial to a group or an audience or an individual. Let's say an individual. You've done something and that person comes back to you and says, Lewis, thank you. I can't tell you how important that was for me. It was— it, it really did pull me out of the, the problem I was in. And I, I can't tell— and here's what I used to say when people would— ah, listen, don't think anything of it, no big deal. I would have done— you know, it's part of the job. Would have done it for anybody. You've just slapped the rule of reciprocity out the window where it dominates that situation. You really did go out of your way. You really did go above and beyond, and you've diminished it. So here's what I recommend that you say. You say, of course I was glad to do it. It's what partners do for one another. Don't forget the addendum for one another. Oh, that's the mistake that people very much— of you, you have to put it on the map. You have to acknowledge it. You don't diminish it. You don't dismiss it. You put it on the map and you say it's what we do for one another. That little is on record, is ready to give back to you. Wow. Now, that's for somebody that you've had a relationship— is what friends do, it's what partners do for one another, a business partner. What if it's somebody who you've helped for the first time? You don't have a lasting relationship. What do you say then? Here's what I would recommend. Again, I was glad to do it. I know that if the situation were ever to be reversed, you do the same for me. Yeah, you do the same for me. Again, you've put it up, you've put the person on record. Yes, yeah, I did do you a favor, and I know you're the kind of person who plays by the rules. The key is not to say, oh, I know if the situation had been reversed, you would have done the same for me. That's in the past, that will never happen. You say, if the situation would be reversed You would do the same for me. You're going to get the next request you ask for.

Wow. The subtle— the subtleties of how we communicate are so important in creating the life of our dreams and struggling consistently. I think the little nuances, you know, Chris Voss, who I think you know as well, I do, talks about this in his work, uh, Never Split the Difference. Just the little subtle communication Um, you know, the way we communicate, uh, the words we use at the specific time can drastically transform our life for good or not for good, right? And I think, um, we, we want to learn how to use these tools, the communication styles, ethically in an empowering way so that everyone benefits. There's a win-win-win in every interaction. That's what I think what we're all looking for.

That's what gets you long-term profitable relationships. People who are with you, who trust you, who recognize that, hey, you're a straight shooter. I can work with this person on into the future and do well.

Yeah, I would see my father do this. My dad was in the insurance business for 33 years, and I would see him always going to the local shop. We were in a small town in Delaware, Ohio, So, it was a very small community and I would always see him, you know, buying from all the local people and then them buying from him and just like building those relationships. He would send them, you know, gifts. This was like snail mail days where he would like write them letters and he would find newspaper clippings about them and write a little thoughtful note and send it to them, just kind of constantly in that giving mentality. And I saw it work for him, you know, for decades in the insurance business of the kind of the old school pre-internet social media days. And, uh, and you can do it online, offline. This, this, this law, this principle works.

You know, I have a colleague, she's my, uh, speaker's agent in Europe, and she has a client, very big client, but who's a slow pay. He doesn't pay for 6 months, and all her friends in the business say, oh, this guy, you know, his— he's a He's a big client. We need him, but he won't pay our invoices. And she asked me about it. I said, well, what do you know about him? She said, well, he lives in a different city than I do, so I don't know a lot. I just know that he's an art lover. I said, oh, listen, go to your local art galleries and museums where they have these little postcards, you know, that show the pictures of the, the, the exhibitions that they have on display and their permanent, uh, work and so on, and put one in the mail with your invoice.

I love that.

She said it cut time in half.

That's brilliant. That's brilliant. If you want to get paid, you got to do things a little differently. You got to stand out. I think that's fascinating.

Put a Starbucks card in with the invoice.

Something. It could be $25. It doesn't have to be.

Yeah. Thank you for your business.

Yeah.

And now they're ready to say, now they're the ones who are saying thank you and they do it by things like that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I love this. Um, anything else about reciprocation before we—

I think we've covered our bases.

I love it. I think it's such an important rule and it's, um, yeah. And it's, it's something that if you're not thinking of this, if you're not coming— in my opinion, if you're not coming from a giving heart first and wanting to add value, wanting to be of service, wanting to give, it's just going to be harder to sustain relationships long-term with your business, your intimate relationships, your family relationships, if you're always being the moocher or the taker.

Right.

And so I just come from a place of service first, and I think you'll always win out in the win-win-win situation.

We are on the same page there. Yes, you come from a, a position of service. What can you provide that enhances the other person's outcomes first, and then as a side effect, they will want to enhance yours?

Absolutely. The, the next principle is commitment and consistency, and I get this question so often. Robert, about people asking me about, you know, how have you built your online business, or how have you got your podcast to go so big? What's the secret? What's the hack? What's the trick to help me launch my podcast as fast as you did? And I literally tell people, commitment and consistency. Over— I'm like, I'm going to give you the most boring answer of how I've built, you know, one of the biggest shows, uh, podcasts in the world.

Yeah.

Which has been 8 and a half years showing up every single week Being extremely committed to my vision, my mission of serving people, and being so consistent, never missing a week for 8 and a half years. And when you do things consistently with a level of commitment to your vision, it starts to pay off. So can you explain more about commitment and consistency?

I mean, that is very— that is primal what you just said. You have to have within yourself a commitment to your vision And a consistent movement toward it in ways that really do advance toward your goals. But we also need to recognize that the people we want to influence also value consistency in themselves.

Absolutely.

So one thing we can do is to find an existing value or an existing preference of theirs and show how what we offer them is consistent with that value, their vision, their commitment. And then they will want to move in our direction because of a drive to be congruent with their existing preferences and values and previous choices.

Right. Can you give an example around that?

Here's one that— there was a study done in Chicago. Restaurant owner, not this time a server, but a restaurant owner who was having a problem with no-shows. People who weren't being consistent. They would call, they would make a reservation, and then they wouldn't appear for it. And he went and he listened to what his receptionist would say when she took a booking. And she would say, thank you for calling Gordon's Restaurant. Please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation. He asked her to change two words. You were saying a minute ago, you know, it's remarkable how just changing a word or two, you know, it makes a big difference. He asked her to change two words. Instead of saying, "Please call," he asked her to say, "Will you please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation?" And then he asked her to pause. If I said to you, "Will you please call?" and I paused, what would you fill that pause with? You'd say, "Of course." Right. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, of course. So it's them reciprocating and saying, "Yes, I will." A commitment.

You've made a commitment.

Interesting.

No-shows dropped by 67% because people were on record as publicly committing themselves, committing to that act, because we all want to be— it's a value to, to live up to what we say. We prefer our— that image of ourselves, be our word.

Yeah.

Yes. And so you make people, uh, make that commitment explicit Yes, I will. Now you've given them something to be consistent with.

Because please call is more of an ask. It's not— it's more like a suggestion. Yeah, it's not an ask with a commitment, right, attached to it.

The most brilliant thing about his recommendation was asking her to pause so people had to make an active commitment.

Oh man, yeah, that's brilliant.

Here's another one. I love this one. A guy called me a couple years ago. He's the Boy Scout leader, and he says, to make money for our troop, we've arranged with a supermarket that we put tables outside the doors and we sell popcorn to people who come out of the supermarket to help the Boy Scouts, right? And he said, our, our results are dismal. We're getting like 15%. Well, I can understand why, because First of all, people, if they wanted popcorn, they would have bought it in the— and they've already expended their budget, right? And they're tired and they're— okay, so I said, so what do you say when they come? They said, would you like to buy some popcorn? If you do, you could support the Boy Scouts. I said, try this. Say, 'Excuse me, do you support the Boy Scouts?' Everybody says yes.

Yes. You say, 'No, I don't support the Boy Scouts.' Yeah, you're like a bad person.

Doesn't have as a value or the Boy Scout, right, a preference. He says, 'Well, if you, if you would, if you do, would you like to buy some popcorn that will support us?' Now 55% bought the popcorn. Oh my goodness, from 15 to 55. And here's what he said to me. He called me up when he said, 'This is Amazing, because the people who don't want the popcorn say, I don't want your popcorn, but I'll give you a donation because I support the Boy Scouts.

Amazing.

So they're making, they're making a profit without even having to sell the popcorn. That's amazing, because they get people to first make a commitment. Where— how do you ask the question So people say yes to the direction you would like them to move before you ask them to move in that direction.

Yeah, I'm reminded of— I'm having so many flashbacks of early 2010s where I studied your, your book, uh, and I was studying everyone else in kind of, uh, behavioral psychology and influence and persuasion and marketing. And I'm reminded of, um, Oh my gosh, is it Frank Lutz? Frank Lutz?

Lutz.

Lutz, yes. Words That Work, where he had all these examples kind of similar to what you created, where it's like if you just change this one word, all these other things could happen in your favor. And it's so fascinating that you're giving these suggestions and testing these things for the Boy Scouts and all these people, and it's seeing these increases just with a couple Little tweaks. And if we learn these things, and I know you've got all this stuff in your book as well, but if we start to really learn these things, it's just the result can be incredible for a return on investment that's over the top.

The investment is one more breath.

That's it.

Will you, you know, the pause? Yes.

And of course it's costless. So what I— so I don't know how many of the people who, who listen are managers or have to run teams from time to time where you have a team meeting and everybody has a task to do before the next meeting. Here's what I say: don't let anybody out of that room. Until you say, will you be able to complete that task by our next—

So when— so we do our team calls on Mondays, and if we have kind of each person go around and share like what's the one thing they're going to accomplish this week, or the big task of the week, how should we phrase that to get their buy-in and their commitment on that?

What you say to them is "Will— do you think you will be able to accomplish this or make progress toward it before our next meeting?" And if they say, "No, I don't," you know, you can say, "Well, what— can you get some help with it? Do you need more resources? Do you need to put something else to the side?" You can then work on getting to yes, right?

Right.

But if they do say, "Yes, I'm able," you have now motivated them to put put that higher in the priority list of what they're going to do because they've made a commitment. Yes, they've made a public commitment to everybody that they're going to do it, and no one wants to break their commitment.

No one wants to break their word. You do it over and over again, you kind of lose confidence in yourself, you know. Your, your self-worth goes down. Your— I guess your likability with yourself kind of probably goes down because you're always breaking your commitment to yourself.

And, you know, right, that's a really good point. And a lot of people, when we talk about this, say, oh well, your reputation with others will go down if you break it. What you've pointed to is something just as powerful. You want to live up to your own standards, and so you will take steps to make sure you, you live up to your commitments.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So what's one thing, if I'm trying to get someone to listen more regularly on the show or watch the YouTube channel on a weekly basis, what's something I could ask to the listeners or the viewers to get them committed to showing up consistently? What would be something you'd suggest? Or for anyone who has a show that's, you know, has— that they want to get their listeners to be more consistent, what would you suggest?

I would say I'd begin by asking for something small, like, could you listen to last week's podcast or any of the following and tell me? And then say to yourself, was that worth it? And would you like to get that kind of benefit regularly? I'm going to make a commitment to you if you do You will get that. I'm gonna— I, I select my guests and I do my homework so that there is value for you in each of our programs. And if you would be willing to make that commitment to me, I have made— I'll make this commitment to you. You will get value.

I love that. Okay, awesome. Anything else around commitment or consistency that we should know about?

Okay, here's another thing where you change one word. Yes. Um, so again, let's say you're a manager and you've got a, a goal that your team is making progress toward, and, and they're advancing and, and they're halfway there. And what we're always supposed to do is to congratulate them on the, the movement that they've made. And on their progress. That's a mistake to use the word progress, to congratulate people on their progress, because what you've asked them to do is look behind them at where they have been and what, what's happened so far and their, their movement. And a lot of times people say, oh, Okay, they're satisfied. I'm satisfied. Now I can coast a little bit here, right? If instead you don't say congratulations on your progress that you've made toward the goal, it's congratulations on your commitment to this goal, to finishing this. Now they're looking forward.

Wow.

The School of Greatness is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. With the FIFA World Cup 2026 coming, there are going to be thousands of fans traveling into cities all across the country. And it's such a cool opportunity to open your home, make some extra income, and be a part of something global. Personally, I started hosting my properties on Airbnb because I wanted a simple way to create extra income. But what I didn't expect was how meaningful the experience would be. You're not just offering a place to stay, you're welcoming people into your world. It's so cool. And one of my favorite things is being able to share the local spots that I love, great places that you can eat, places where you can move your body and things that make the city feel alive. It becomes more than just a visit for them. It becomes an experience. And during something like the FIFA World Cup, that energy is on a whole different level. You get to be a part of that excitement and create real connections with people from all over the world. And if you've ever thought about hosting This summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. Tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments. You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds you feel rich, like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in. But here is the thing. That moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed, something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full. Things break, plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, Not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question. Not what can I buy right now, but what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money. And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds? It's a small shift, but it changes the energy and suddenly it isn't just extra cash. It's an opportunity. One simple, intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady, and honestly, that feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in 2 weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. U.S. Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates. And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, U.S. Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it. U.S. Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost. Visit usbank.com/savings to get started. Savings rates vary based on the presence of an additional eligible product and combined qualifying balances. CD rates vary by term and location. Member FDIC.

And the research shows they're significantly more likely to reach that goal on time if you use the word commitment to it than progress toward it.

Congratulations on your commitment to this goal. So not even— don't even add congratulations on the progress of your commitment to this goal. Just say congratulations on the commitment.

On the commitment.

We're doing great things and we're, we're, we're almost there. Let's finish it off.

Right.

Okay. Congratulations on the commitment. I'm writing this down. I like that a lot.

Um, your commitment, make sure it's their commitment, your commitment to this goal.

Okay.

Yeah.

I hope everyone's taking notes as well. Like me. Um, I love this. This is powerful.

Me too.

I love this stuff. Commitment and consistency.

I always love this stuff. You know, this, I was always as a curious teenager and young man about how did this work like that? How did people get me to say yes to things I wasn't really interested in?

You know, I didn't want to buy this.

Yeah, I didn't want this thing. It must be the way they presented it, the psychology of it.

Yes, yes. The next principle is social proof, and I've always been fascinated by this. I think there's there's stories in the book that, that go into some of these examples, but I'm always fascinated by the one of just like, okay, there's two coffee shops or two donut shops or whatever, there's the same type of store, one's got a long line and the other has no line. And then most people go into the one with the long line because it just shows a social proof case study of people want this thing, then it must be good. Can you explain more of this concept of social proof?

Well, yes, and I want to compliment you on that particular example because not only does it show the principle of social proof that says when I'm uncertain about what to do, I use the responses of other people, the choices of other people, to steer me in that direction. It reduces my uncertainty.

We're so persuaded to want to wait in line just because everyone else wants the thing. It's like the nightclub where it's like they make you wait outside in line. You want to go in there.

Exactly. So that's the extra point that I think you raise with that example. You're willing to go and wait in line and incur all the inconvenience because this rule is so powerful.

You'll wait 10, 20, 30 minutes for the same cup of coffee, right? Or whatever it is, you know, it's like a lot of times, I mean, I haven't been in the nightclub and I don't know, 10 years or something, but a lot of times you would go into the nightclub and you're like, this is not that good. Let me get out of here. You just waited an hour to go something you didn't really like. One of, here's a story that for me that this worked incredibly well. When I learned this principle at 2009, I learned this from you and it worked. I was like, this is fascinating. I remember getting a big press opportunity. I was in a big, I don't know, 5-page spread of Details magazine. The magazine is no longer around, I don't think, but Details magazine, I remember it was a big magazine back in the day. It was kind of like a GQ type of thing. And I got an email from to one of the main writers there and say, I'm doing a story about online marketers who can help you earn more money. And I've got Tim Ferriss that I'm featuring, Gary Vaynerchuk, Seth Godin, and I want to include you. And it was maybe one or two other people. And he was like, we're going to fly you out to New York City. We're going to do a big photo shoot, the whole thing. I was a nobody, Robert. I was a nobody. No one even knew who I was. I had a very small following when I was teaching LinkedIn strategies back in 2008. So I had a small micro community and, but I was nobody compared to Tim Ferriss and Gary Vaynerchuk and all these other people. And I said yes right away. And I went there and did this shoot and it was like this big spread in Details magazine. And it was like a massive opportunity for me. And I remember after it was published, I asked the writer, I didn't want to ask him beforehand, but I asked the writer, hey, why did you choose me? Why did you want to have me in this, this featured magazine? And he said, I saw someone retweet one of your tweets and I went to, who was influential to me. I saw them retweet it. Then I went to your link in your bio and I saw your website. And on the website at the very top, I saw that you were featured in Time Magazine and Fast Company and a few other places. And he said right away, I saw that you were featured in these other places, and I thought if you were good enough for them, you were good enough for Details Magazine. And that was pretty much all the research he did before reaching out to me. And there was two levels of social proof. One, someone sharing seeing a message that I put out there on Twitter that he saw. So someone else was talking about it. And then seeing the logos of the other press that I had gotten, which was very small, you know, mentions. It wasn't like these featured articles, but it was showing where I'd been featured. And he said, because other people desired you and wanted to talk about you, I figured you were good enough for us.

Yep.

And that small change that I learned from you helped just unlock so much more. And I think if people just understood the subtleties of just showcase where you've been featured, just make sure you're showing these things so people are aware, it'll bring new opportunities.

Right. And I mean, that's, um, that's the, the essence of social proof. Yes. What are people around me like me doing, or what have they been doing? That's reduces my uncertainty about what I should do in that situation. And it works in all kinds— there is this lovely little study in a pub in, in UK, in London, where one day the proprietor put up a sign on the bar that said, this week our most popular beer is our porter, right?

Porter sales doubled just by saying, this week our most popular is—

wow.

We all have our most popular item, yes, product, feature, payment plan. All we have to do is point to, to the one that is, and people say, oh, I can stop asking about where I should go or what I should— no, here's a reason for me to stop searching and choose right now.

Well, I feel like we're all suckers for this. I mean, not in a bad way, but when I go to a restaurant that I've never been to, I just ask the waiter— I don't even look at the menu. I just say, what are the 3 most popular items, or what are the 3 things you like the most on the menu? And they'll say, well, this one's great, I love this one the most, and this is the most popular one. And then I make a decision based on that, typically, because I don't want to look through everything and try to find something. Thing. I just want to know what do other people like? What do you like? What's the recommendation?

Right.

And, you know, I'm sure on Amazon, they're probably the masters at all of this, but they're showing Amazon's recommended choice all the time when you search into something. I buy, I buy that recommended choice pretty much every time. It's got the most reviews, it's got the credibility, it's got all these things.

You know, I do the same thing when I go to a restaurant where I am not familiar with the menu. I just add one other thing that, uh, I— when I say, so tell me, what are your most popular items in the ad appetizer category? How about the mains? How about the desserts? And so whatever, I'm interested— soup, whatever. And I say, of your regulars, tell me the people who are your regulars, what's the most popular of theirs. They're essentially the verified buyers, right?

On Amazon. Yes.

Yeah. That we all listen to the most, right? Your regulars. They've already done the beta testing for me. I don't have to go all over the menu and test. So what's— so that's that idea.

I mean, I wonder if— I've never seen a menu do that in each category. I've seen sometimes like one item that says like our most popular item, but I wonder if they did it in appetizers, salads, soups, you know, entrees, desserts— what they put the top, like the star, most popular item here in each category. I bet those things would get so much more sales.

Louis, I can give you confirmation. Okay, you're right. There was a study done in Beijing, shows you how cross-culturally extended this principle is. Restaurant managers put a little asterisk next to certain items in each of the categories and each one became 13 to 20% more purchased. And what did the asterisk stand for? This is one of our most popular items.

I bet you could start to predict as a business owner, a restaurateur, what ingredients you need more of based on the consistency of just that one difference of putting an asterisk or most popular, whatever you want to do it. You can start to predict the sales every week of, okay, I'm not going to buy an excess of all these other ingredients because we know that only 20% of people are going to buy these other lower choices. You can start to increase the profit margin. You can start to predict things better. Uh, there's so many things that would happen in your benefit. Well, here's the best part of it, and I bet people are happier because they're making a choice they think is the best choice, right? And they enjoy it more psychologically. They're like, oh, I'm doing what everyone else loves.

That's the best part, because not only are you reducing their uncertainty, if you've truly pointed to the genuinely most popular, you're giving them a better experience and they're going to come back.

You're going to come back, and also you're going to become better at making that thing better because you're working on that thing more. You're going to make sure it's great every time. Like, just— it's just all these things are going to level you up the entire experience. I love this.

And it doesn't have to be any one thing. It can be a couple of things within the advertise, uh, the appetizer category and so on.

Top 2 most popular choices. Yes. Anything else around social proof that we should be aware of?

No, I think this is— well, the biggest is it shouldn't just be many others, it should be comparable others. We most reduce our uncertainty of what to do in a situation by looking at what those like us have done there.

Interesting.

So one thing we can do is, uh, let people know that, you know, like on the, the hotel sites, what they will do is segment their marketing and say the best hotels as rated by, uh, business people, the best for leisure travelers, the best for romantic couples, the best for people with families. And so now you dive right in there and you say, that's, that's where I'm gonna go to get my information.

That's smart. Yeah, specializing it to people that are like you or doing something like you. I love that. And speaking of liking someone, uh, the next principle is, is liking. And what is the difference between liking and likability?

Well, you can become— you get liking by being likable.

Okay.

But nobody would be surprised to hear that. Here's what's worth knowing from the research, and that is there are two very small things we can do that cause people to like us more. Right? One is to point to similarities between the two of us, right? The comparabilities. And because people like those who are like them.

Yes.

Right? There was a study of negotiators who were doing bargaining over email, and if before they began to bargain, they traded information about one another, right, so they could personalize the other person, you know, they found that stymied negotiations went from 30% to 6%.

Wow.

Just by sending— now here's the key. When the researchers looked at the data, they found that it wasn't those who sent the most information back and forth about themselves and, you know, kind of made themselves human. It was whether in the information there were parallels, similarities. You're a runner, I'm a runner.

Yes.

You're an only child, I'm an only child. Those were the things that created the willingness to give the other person grace in a negotiation so you don't walk away with a stymied deadlocked nothing burger where nobody wins.

Right, right. So that, that's the first thing, having shared similarities within each other. What's the second thing?

Praise, compliments. Wow. I'm going to admit to something here. This is my biggest fallback. This is, this is my biggest mistake. I have a very difficult time giving warranted praise, really, to people.

Why is that?

It was the way I grew up. My parents didn't do it. They were always—

they said, I love you.

They would— well, they would say that, but they wouldn't say, oh, great job on that in that game, or you really, you know, did terrific. Because they didn't want me to take it easy. They always wanted me to push a little harder, push a little harder. So I can't tell you how many times— you know, I was a— before I retired, a research psychologist— and how many times in meetings, research meetings with my graduate students, I would hear myself say, oh, that's a brilliant thing that Lewis just said, or, oh, what's there? How Sarah just phrased that is exactly what we should say in our study.

What do you want to say?

And I say it to myself, I didn't, and I missed all the goodwill that would come from just translating it from my mind to my tongue. And now I, I don't do that anymore. I make sure that anytime I hear myself praise somebody in my head, I hear myself say it in my ears because I say it out loud.

That's good.

Yeah, I can't tell you the effect it's had on, uh, on the social interaction and goodwill in those sessions and with my students.

You know what's fascinating? Again, I have applied so many of these principles throughout my, the last 10, 12 years, I guess. When I was getting started, a lot of people are listening, they've fallen for a while, they know my story. I got started using LinkedIn to kind of build relationships and connections. And then from there started helping people how to use LinkedIn to get opportunities and jobs and, you know, investors and all these different things. And the first few months of using LinkedIn back in 2007, 2000, yeah, late 2007, I would email people and message people and very few would reply to me. And I was reaching out to kind of influential CEOs and business leaders because I was trying to build relationships. I was trying to interview them early on to ask them questions and just learn from them. And very few would give me the time of day. And then I started to implement this strategy from your book of, of liking, right? And, and also kind of social proof in there as well. And I started emailing and I said to myself, in the first sentence, I've got to incorporate this. So I would look and do research on their profile and I'd see what are the similarities? How do we know, how do we know each other? How do we know friends of friends? That's why I think social networking is a great tool to use. Because you can usually see if you have common friends. And I would, I would always talk about like, oh, I see that we have Bob and Sarah and Tom as mutual friends. There's a similarity. I would see where did they go to school, where are they from, did they play sports, because it tells you their hobbies, their interests, their associations. You know, I see that you're a public speaker, I'm in Toastmasters right now. I see that you played football, I just finished playing arena football. Whatever it is, I would try to add 3 levels of similarities within the first sentence. And by doing that, I believe— I think I got like 8 or 9 out of 10 replies every time, whereas maybe I was only getting 1 or 2 out of 10 replies before then. Yeah, just by adding that, and also by acknowledging something in their career they did that I felt inspired by. So I would add the similarities, and then I would also try to find out—

praise—

what did they do in their career, I would research them a lot and say, I really like when you put this out. I really like how you did this thing. And I acknowledge them for that. And then I would say, I would love to learn more about how you did this. Before, I would say, can you give me advice? Can I take 10 minutes of your time where you teach me these things? Yeah. Then I said, no one wants to give advice and give up when they're busy and give them their time. Yeah, but people love to tell their story of their success and how they overcame the challenge. So I rephrased it and I would get so many different connections from that because I didn't ask for advice. I just was inspired by their story and wanted them to share. And by listening, they gave me all the advice in the world.

You know, it seems to me you've hit the two principal pillars of liking then, similarity and praise. And, and yeah, so not only do we like the people who are like us, we like the people who do like us and say so. Praise, compliments. We like the people who give us compliments, and as a result, we want to do business with them, we want to interact with them, we want to say yes to Tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments.

You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds you feel rich. Like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in. But here is the thing. That moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed. Something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full. Things break, plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question. Not what can I buy right now, but what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money. And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds. It's a small shift, but it changes the energy. And suddenly it isn't just extra cash. It's an opportunity. One simple, intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady. And honestly, that feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in 2 weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. US Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates. And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, US Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it, U.S. Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost. Visit usbank.com/savings to get started. Savings rates vary based on the presence of an additional eligible product and combined qualifying balances. CD rates vary by term and location. Member FDIC. Spring is the season for closet cleanouts. It's the perfect time to narrow down your wardrobe to pieces that are well-made and easy to wear all the time. And that's where Quince comes in. With Quince, you get fabrics that feel elevated and pricing that actually makes sense. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Everything is designed to last and make getting dressed easy. And it's not just their clothing. They have great bedding options too.

And Martha and I actually have their European linen duvet cover set. and it's so soft and comfortable.

We love it. Highly recommend doing a little spring cleaning and upgrading a few things you use every day. Just start small and keep it simple. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/lewis for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/lewis for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com/lewis.

Praise. It's such a simple thing, and it's—

and it's, again, it's costless.

Yes.

I mean, but what you did is the right thing. If you give a phony compliment, you know, it's just going to ring— it's not going to ring true.

Yeah.

But if you really research there, really think about who they are and understand what their challenges are, who— where they came from, what challenges they've overcome, and you praise is that it's genuine. It rings true.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love this. Liking is huge. Again, two things that we can do to get more people to like us is finding commonalities and similarities and praise, acknowledgement, compliments. They're free. It just takes a little bit of research, a little bit of thoughtfulness, and the benefits are abundant.

And it doesn't take a lot of research because they tell us about themselves on LinkedIn.

Exactly.

They tell us about themselves on Facebook. It's not proprietary information.

You can go to someone's Instagram and in a few photos, you can see if they have kids. You can see what they're up to, where they live.

And they want us to know that about them.

Exactly. And it's interesting when I'm sure, Bob, when you get emailed and someone does the research and someone shares common similarities and they acknowledge you for or the incredible work you've done in the world and how your book has impacted them or the videos they've seen, you're more likely to reply. Maybe you won't spend your time on the phone with them, but you're more likely to say, I like this person. Let me at least say thank you. And I appreciate it. And let's, you know, maybe in the future we'll get together. I feel obligated to want to reply to those nice compliments. And oh, we know these people in common. Okay, if I don't reply to this person and he has a common friend, am I going to be the jerk? That blows, you know, is it going to come back to me from my friend that I was a jerk? It's like we feel obligated.

I am exactly the same. Somebody compliments me, it's very difficult to just dismiss them and not— you have to do something in return.

Say thank you.

It's reciprocity. You have to do something in return.

That's crazy. I love it. Okay. The next principle is authority. And I think, with all the people that are maybe getting started in their career or their business, or they're launching an idea and they feel like they have no authority. Why do they need to create authority, um, in order to be more successful? How do they gain authority in an authentic way? And, and what happens if we don't have authority?

Yeah, so I'm going to differentiate between two kinds of authority, both of which make a difference and cause people to say yes to us. But this person you describe doesn't have the first type, which is to be in a position of authority, that is, to be— to have standing or stature in a hierarchy or some— uh, yeah. So there are people who are in authority. That's not who we're talking about in influence. That's power. That's about power. There are people, there's somebody who is an authority. That's the person I'm talking about. Somebody who's knowledgeable, somebody who has experience, somebody who can point to some credentials they have. And very often, you know, that can be somebody who's just come out of a training program or a university with a major on, and a particular area where they specialize, and they can say, I know about the latest research on this, you know. Or somebody who's been around for a while can say, I've been in this area for a while and I have a lot of experience. You can point to those things that are genuine credentials that you have. And so, for example, For example, I did some work with a hospital in the— I live in the Phoenix area. It's a hospital where they asked me to help them with stroke patients who weren't doing their home exercises that the physical therapist gave them to do when they left the hospital. And so they weren't getting better. So I said, well, can you show me what you do? And they said, well, here's the the, the regimen we give them to do it. And we take them into this, this little room and we make sure they understand everything. And I looked at the room, there were pictures on the walls. I said, replace those pictures with your credentials. Put your diplomas, put your awards, put your certifications on the wall. And exercise compliance as measured by flexibility, strength, range of motion increased by 31% because in the room where they were giving them the information, they had all this, all this evidence that they were an authority.

So people took them more seriously.

Yes.

Yeah. So showcase— showcasing your—

showcase your credentials. You can't do it face to face though. You can't sit down in front of somebody and say, Louis, let me just tell you how great I really am. No, you do it by sending them, uh, your resume as an attachment ahead of your first meeting. I'm looking for Looking forward to our meeting on Thursday, the top on the topic of X. Here are my background and credentials on X. Or you say, here's my LinkedIn profile.

Absolutely.

Go there.

Or at the bottom of your email signature, you could have like the letters or the initials.

The initials.

I'm sure that if I, you know, if I'm looking at your book here and it just said Robert Cialdini with no PhD after it versus having the PhD, I'm sure that adds just a subtle level credibility with this right here.

It does for people. And the authority. Now, if you hold that up again and you look at the top of it, over 5 million copies sold. Yes, that's social proof.

Huge social proof.

But in both cases, I'm pointing to something that's genuine, right? I don't have to fabricate it. I don't have to— really, you don't have to do that.

Yeah, you have the social proof with how many— this is how many people have bought it. Then you have the more social proof from a credible source giving a recommendation. Then you have this down here, which is the authority. It's all on the front of the book. New and expanded, you know, additional content, all this stuff, it's all on the front page, which helps you make a decision.

And you know, Lewis, I had in the past, not this particular edition, but in previous editions, I've had to fight my publisher to get that stuff on there.

Really?

Because they said, you know, we want more white space. What? You want white? I'm talking about authority.

Yeah, you need this.

You're talking about white space?

Yeah. And you have, again, praise on the back. It's like when someone's praising you, it's more social proof.

Yeah.

And, uh, it's funny because there's so many authors who have implemented these strategies over the last 10 years since you've been putting this work out there. And you see it everywhere now. You see everyone following a similar format if they're researched and studied well with these principles. And it's— they work. They do it because it works.

Um, which— because it works. So authority.

Yeah.

And oh, there's one more feature of authority that the newest research suggests. Um, And that is people say, how do I, how can I multiply my authority? Well, get legitimate experts' quotes or testimonials. It doesn't have to be necessarily to you or your product, but to your idea. Yes. To the— you as a person, to you as— yes. And all right, you put that there in any message that you send at the top. Not at the— don't bar— you want that authority aura to suffuse everything that goes next. Every claim that you make, really want to be supported by the fact that an authority agrees with you and your vision.

So what would this be? Would this be for like a book proposal to have those at the top? Would it be be for? What other types of examples would that be for, to put the quotes at the top of your website? At the top at the web—

the website is the key, right? What's the first thing you should see on somebody's website? You should see testimonials from credible people. Credible people. Most of the, the websites have them buried somewhere or in a separate category over there, praise for such a— it— there should be testimonials at the outset so that that authority, um, influence applies to everything you've yet to read in it.

Yes, it sets this— it sets the tone.

Right.

As opposed to them guessing and wondering and have to look. It sets the stage of this is the authority, this is a credible person, let me learn more. Not right, let me find out if they're credible with their bio and this and this or whatever, like scrolling. Like, start with credibility and authority. That's why when I use the strategy of like, here are the other places I've featured, here are the logos of the presses that I've been featured on, it was instant authority. Just when a second you see it, you feel authority in your body. You're just like, okay, as opposed to not showing it at the top, people have to go down and look for it. I feel like you're missing the mark.

I once did some work with Bose Acoustics Corporation. They had a new product, the Bose Wave music system at the time, and after we got some increased sales to a particular ad, the, the product had been out there long enough that they had authorities, uh, testifying. And so they made up a new generation of the ad with the authorities in there, right? Except they were at the bottom of the ad, the authority, and we just had them move them to the top and got a 15% increase in sales.

Crazy. You see that— I think the movie industry does as well, where they constantly saying the movie of the year by Entertainment Magazine, or this, you know, it's like astonishing, you know, whatever it may be. Uh, you see that always flashing up in the trailers of, of the movies, and you just like, okay, if everyone else loves this and they're calling them the authority, or this is the authoritative movie of the year, I gotta go watch it, you know?

Right, right, right.

20 Emmy nominations, it's like, okay, I have to go watch this. Yeah, you know. Yeah. It's the authority in that space as well.

So remember I said that social proof reduces your uncertainty about what you should do? The same thing applies to authority. If the experts are recommending something, it reduces your uncertainty. You don't have to sit on the fence anymore. You don't have to dither around and think about this or that. Boom, you can go right in.

I love it. I love that. We've got, uh, the, the final principle of the previous version until you've discovered the new principle, which I want to get to. But the, the, the original final principle is scarcity. And can you explain the, the principle of scarcity, why we find things that are rare and scarce or limited, something that we desire, that we want, on human psychology standpoint. And then also, in a digital world, for people that have an unlimited of digital goods, essentially, that's not a physical good, and they, they have digital, how do they position in a way that is ethical scarcity?

Okay, I want to take those in order because that's the right sequence of this. First of all, the reason we want things that are rare, scarce, or dwindling in availability is that otherwise we lose them. And loss is a more powerful motivator in human psychology than gaining the same thing.

Really?

There's a man who won the Nobel Prize in Economics a few years ago Daniel Kahneman, for something he called prospect theory, where he showed that the prospects of gaining a particular amount of a resource— all right, let's say a dollar— right, compared to the prospects of losing that dollar, people were twice as likely to want to avoid losing the dollar than gaining paying the extra one. Right.

So we're— wow. So if, if we have the ability to earn, gain $1 million or lose $1 million, we'd rather hold on to the losing of the $1 million than the possibility of gaining. Is that kind of—

I, I once gave a lecture to a financial services firm and afterwards the, the, the boss came up to me and said, You just said something with that loss aversion, the idea people are averse to loss more than they want to gain things. You just said something that finally allows me to understand what my mentor told me. He said if you have a high-value client, right, way up there, you don't want to lose them, right? Yeah, but they're millions of dollars, right? And you call them at 5 in the morning and say, if you act now, you'll be able to gain $25,000 on this, uh, on this stock, they're going to scream at you and hang up the phone. But if you call them and say, if you, if you act now, you'll avoid losing $25,000 on our position, they'll thank Wow, people don't want to lose what they have. They don't want to lose. So that's why scarcity is so valuable, because scarcity— loss is the ultimate form of scarcity. It means you can't have it anymore. That's why people are so adamant about grabbing onto scarce or dwindling resources. They don't want to lose them. Okay, now How does that apply? How do you do that when you've got a lot of various, a lot of opportunities? Okay, I'm gonna say two things. One is you do have something that's scarce, which is what differentiates you from your rivals. What is the single thing that that people can't get, they will lose if they don't move in your direction. Now it might not be one thing, but it might be a suite of things, a combination of items that only you provide.

Right.

Right? And then you simply say, You don't just say, "And if you will go with us, you will gain these." You have to be able to say, "You don't want to lose these benefits that only we can offer. You don't want to miss that." Remember I told you about the Bose ad that we did where if you added testimonials at the top, you increased sales by 15%? And I said, But first of all, we had done something that increased their sales in a different way. Well, here's what we did. At the top of their initial ad for the Bose Wave music system, they had new features, new convenience, new simplicity, new elegance, right? And at the top was the word new. This was their ad. We changed changed it to, "Hear what you've been missing." Ooh. And we got a 45% increase in sales.

So something people has lost, missing, you haven't heard it yet.

Yes, before all those new features and those were things to be gained. Now we say, "You don't want to miss these." Yeah, that's good.

That's interesting. Man, humans are funny.

That's why it scares— okay, so that's one thing. Now here's the other, and I think your online people will be interested in it. There was a study of 6,700 online commercial sites, right? And they looked at A/B tests within each one for various kinds of features of the site that would lead to conversions. And some of them were economic, like do we offer free delivery? Some were technological. Is there a search function in the site for where you can, some were psychological, like is there a call to action after each appeal, in each appeal? The top 6, were the 6 principles. It wasn't any of that. It was the 6 principles of influence. And you know what was at the top? Scarcity. Really? If you could legitimately say we only have X number of these items at this price, yes, or with this feature, or with this bonus, you got the most conversions of all.

Wow.

Even more than saying we only have a limited time for buying this at this price.

So limited time is valuable, but limited quantity or package of certain things is more powerful.

And here's why. Why? Because with a limited number, you're in competition.

All right, but you have limited time, you can still wait till the last minute.

Yeah, you're not in competition with anybody for it. You can do it anytime. If it's a limited number, you better move or it'll be gone. It's lost.

Yes.

Now, if you've got a lot of these, you can say this This special is only good for X number of items, or, you know, we've only got so many of these with this extra feature, or that we will provide this additional inducement. Now let me say, that was number one. Number two was social proof, telling people what a lot of others like them had been doing with this, right? Number 3 was limited time. And here's one I rarely see in online sites. It was the liking principle.

Really?

Here's what they did. They began with a welcoming letter letter. It's what you do, like when somebody comes to your door, you welcome them in.

Yes.

You say, hello, glad that you're here.

Yep.

Come on in. It was a welcoming letter. Liking first.

Scarcity, social proof, limited time, liking. With a welcome letter. This was the— this— the— in order— the influence.

Actually, authority was— authority was before liking.

Got it. Okay. Authority. I love this stuff. I love learning about this. Yeah. I don't know if people— hopefully people are jotting down as many notes as me. This is powerful. The scarcity thing has been a big factor that I've seen more and more in the last couple of years, uh, with— I don't know if you've been aware of this whole NFT movement, these NFTs online, which are essentially digital representations of artwork.

Oh yes, I am.

That, that are selling out in seconds, you know, when they have 1,000 or 500, they're limited, they're selling out in seconds. I live here in Los Angeles and sometimes I'll drive down Fairfax or Melrose Avenue and you'll see people in— hundreds of people in line outside of a store. The shoe stores, kind of the sneakerhead stores where they have like this limited run, and people will wait for hours. I think it's, you know, I think Apple does this well where it's like, well, I got a limited amount the first week, you know, stand in line for 3 days in a tent so you can get the iPhone when it comes out, right? The first Yeah. Uh, you know, baseball and basketball and trading cards have become booming in the last couple of years. I even got involved in this and I was like, I can't believe, uh, you know, what now with so much limited quantity of older cards or rare cards. I think it was 2 days ago, the, uh, Honus Wagner card sold for $6.6 million as the new highest price card ever sold when it was previously sold for, I think, $5.1 million or something like a year ago. And it's a 2-inch by 2-inch piece of cardboard, right? You know, it's selling for millions because it's rare, it's scarce. And I think, you know, that's crazy.

That is crazy. And here's the best example I ever saw. It has to do with Apple and how Apple uses this, right? So It was the release of the iPhone 5 in Phoenix. The local TV station that I listen to, I watch, they sent a reporter to interview the people who had been around the corner in sleeping bags, right, waiting for this. And they went up, the reporter went up to the person who was number 23 in line, So interviewing, so do you talk to the other people in line? Did you get to know them? She said, yeah, actually, she said, I was originally number 25 in line, but I struck up a conversation with the woman who was number 23 who admired my shoulder bag. It's a $2,800 Louis Vuitton.

You did not give it to her for the spot.

And she's— that's exactly right.

Oh my goodness.

She said, I, I brokered a deal with her. Your spot in line for my Louis Vuitton bag. That's craziness to go from $25 to $23. And, and to her credit, the, the reporter, after stammering, what, she said, why did you do that? And she said, I heard this shop didn't have a lot and I didn't want to lose the chance to get one.

Wow.

It's all about loss. Scarcity is about loss. And you'll give up a $2,800 shoulder bag to go from 25 to 23?

Yeah, maybe to like number 1.

That's how powerful this is. Yes.

That's crazy. But the human psychology is fascinating.

Fascinating.

The way our brain thinks, the way we work is fascinating. So scarcity is all about loss and showcasing that there's a limited quantity. You don't want to lose out, you don't want to miss out on this limited quantity or packaging, exclusive packaging of the thing, right? Anything else on scarcity before we get into community?

That's a good— this is great run-through.

So for how long is this— the first book has been around for what, over, over a decade? Right before the new, before the new version came out?

12 years.

12 years. And these 6 principles have been the leading force in massive companies, for entrepreneurs, for lifestyle entrepreneurs, for online websites, for, for the last 12 years. But now with this new and expanded version, you've got a lot of new research and you've added an additional principle, which is unity. Can you explain what unity is and why you decided to add an additional principle to influence?

Because I started to see evidence that I was mistaken in thinking that unity was just an extension of similarity. What unity is, if, if as a communicator I can convince somebody that I share membership in a, in a we group, a group that this person uses the term we to, to characterize, right? Everything becomes easier inside the boundaries of the we group.

So for example, like we are part of, you know, the same college alumni association.

Precisely. Some category that defines our identity, right? And so I even— yeah, so region is one thing. So for example, people who belong to the same city or community or State, country. It's like finding something where we're a part, we belong, we belong, where we grow, right? But it— when, when we were first talking before we went on the air, you were saying some of your followers just want to know about how things can be done, um, in their personal life to increase their, their outcomes. And there's a great example of how how the unity principle works in relationships, romantic relationships. You know, in all romantic relationships, there are some things that are going really well, and there are some things that there are just a disagreement. You can't get resolution on a particular problem or difficulty. And so these researchers in Texas brought couples into a situation, research situation. And they said, what we'd like you to do is, is think about an issue that you haven't been able to get agreement on. You just, all the time that you've been together, you just haven't been able to do it. And we would like for one of you, and flipped a coin, to be the persuader, to try to persuade your partner to come into line with your position. On this issue, right? And then they took a step back, left the room, but they had TV cameras and tape recorders going, so they knew what happened. And they found 3 kinds of persuaders. One was what they called the coercive persuader, who said, I need you to do this for me, otherwise you'll be sorry. I'll have to do some things that you're not happy about, right? Not only did that fail to work, it produced polarization. You got the opposite result. Now the recipient of that message was further away from the persuader's position. So that was terrible. There was another approach that the researchers called the rational logical approach, where where the persuader said, "Look, if you'll just examine the situation more closely, you'll see that my position is the more rational one. It's the more reasonable one." Now that didn't get polarization. That got laughter.

Yes.

Right?

Right.

Oh, you think? So they got no movement at all from that one. There was only one strategy that worked.

What was that?

By a very small percentage of people. Okay. Who said, you know, we've been together now for 2 and a half years. I'd really appreciate it if you'd do this for me. They just brought to the surface that they were a unit. Wow. They shared an identity. That's all.

That was it.

No new information, no greater logic, no, no, no. Just bring to consciousness that we are a we group, and inside we groups, people support and compromise. It's what we do inside we groups, right? Now, there was another version of that that was even simpler to implement. It was simply to use the pronouns we, our, and us in making the request. So change—

wow, for change. Gotcha. We, our, and us.

And us.

Okay.

Again, bringing to consciousness the idea of, oh, we're members of this shared identity.

It can be anything, really. It could be we go to the same gym, we like the same workouts, we like the same whatever, food, we like the same restaurants. You're saying any type of we community?

Yes. So I grew up in Wisconsin.

Yep.

And so my NFL football team is the Green Bay Packers. All my life I've been a Packers fan, right? A little— a while ago, I read a newspaper article where they looked at the favorite NFL teams of various celebrities, and I found out that Justin Timberlake and Lil Wayne are both avid Green Bay Packer fans. Louis, I immediately thought better of their music.

Oh wow, that's crazy!

And I wanted them to succeed. Oh my goodness, they were of me. They weren't just like me. They were one of us. They were one of us. It made all— yeah, so that's crazy.

And I'm assuming the more emotionally connected to an identity group you are, the more likely you want to support or be in partnership with, right, like someone who is a part of that deeper emotional group for you. If you're like the Green Bay Packers super fan, if you find one person likes them, you're like, okay, I look at them completely differently now.

Completely differently.

That's amazing. So how, how can we incorporate this in a business negotiation, let's say?

All right, uh, here's, here's what I, uh, am going to recommend. Uh, first of all, just like you look for just similarities of preferences and styles and tastes, you can also look for similarities of category. Stories by doing that search, that initial search, and bring it up. You're a boater, I'm a boater, right? Whatever it could be. But there's another way that I— that has been wildly successful in the marketing community, maybe the most successful strategy for creating loyalty and satisfaction with your product in the last decade? Co-creation, where we ask people who have been, who are our customers or even our prospective customers, we want to create the next level of our product or service. Can you Give us some input. And we ask for their responses, uh, you know, on, uh, what, what can we do to make this better? What can we do to, uh, what should we drop away? What should we, what do we need to improve? Co-create the next level of our products or services. That creates unity. You are co-creating this thing.

It's probably why, it's probably why, you know, crowdfunding and Kickstarter and all these sites have done so well, because someone puts out an idea and then says, but also give us feedback so that when we ship it, we've incorporated those ideas into making this product to your liking. And yes, people get behind it. They buy something they can't even get for a year. They, you know, invest in something to be a part of the co-creation of of someone launching it. They'll give feedback, they'll be excited about— they'll spend so much time and energy on one potential product that maybe they get 6 to 12 months later, right? Because they're part of the co-creation.

And here where we come to another one of those single word changes. If you ask for feedback, if you ask for an opinion, you can get this effect, this But there's one word you can use that enhances the effect significantly. Instead of asking for their opinion or their feedback, you ask for their advice, and you get a partner.

So don't ask for feedback, ask for advice.

Ask for advice. When you ask for feedback, people take a half step away from you and they go inside themselves. Right? And they consider what their reactions are inside. If you ask for advice, they come and stand next to you psychologically, right?

That's interesting.

And now here's what the research shows: if you ask for advice, people like your idea better than if you ask for feedback or opinion about it.

What do I— this stuff is fascinating to me.

One word.

Yes, this stuff is fascinating to me. If you were— is there anything else about unity? Yeah, that you would add to?

I would say that we don't want to let this go where it exists already. I'll give you an example of how it worked for me. A while ago, I was— I had to complete a report and it was due the next day. And as I was reading over it, I saw there was one section that it was not really convincing. I wasn't— I really didn't make my case, but because I didn't have the research to support it. But I knew I had a colleague who had done a study the year before and had collected data relevant to this point that I— if I put that in, it would It would close the envelope. It would be a sure thing.

Sure.

Well, this guy, let's call him Tim, that's not his real name, was known to be sour and irascible and unpleasant guy. So I sent him an email. I said, Tim, I explained my situation. I have this due the next day. You have the date. I'm going to call I'm going to call you and see how we can get this to me today so I can put it into my report. And I called him. He said, I know why you're calling, Bob, and the answer is no. He said, look, man, I can't be responsible for your poor time management skills that it's due the next day and you don't have the data. He said, no. And before I read all the research on unity, I would have said, come on, Tim, it's due the next—

it's—

I, I'm really in a bind here. It's due tomorrow. He had already said no to that, right? This is what I said, honestly, you know, Tim, we've been in the same psychology department now for 12 years. I really appreciate if you do this for me. Wow. And I had the data that afternoon.

Wow, there you go. So he said no, and then you—

because I didn't raise to— just like those researchers in Texas, and those, you know, the, the group that said, we're in a couple, we've been together for— I said, we've been together for 12 years in the same unit, and now no went to yes.

People feel more obligated or persuaded to take the action.

I think obligated. They feel out of loyalty to the group. You have to do this. That's crazy.

Otherwise you're like a bad member of the group or something.

Right.

Oh man, this is— why is human psychology so fascinating and powerful?

It's always been fascinating to me.

Isn't it crazy that that you could have everyone, everything you want in your life. You could accomplish your goals, your dreams. You could, you could have great partnerships, great friendships, great business opportunities if you learn to understand people and you learn to speak the language of people. It's, it's fascinating. And I want more people to learn about these things. I want more people to study it because when you can study it and then integrate it into your daily life and just make it a part of who you are, it's going to feel like everything flows to you. It's going to feel like synchronicities are around you constantly. It's going to feel like life is abundant and you are a magnet for what you want. And I think, yeah, it's just so powerful.

And the best thing about it is that you get to be ethical in the process by simply pointing to the things that truly exist. We've been together for 12 years. That's right. In the same unit, or, you know, we both like, we're both runners, or any of these things we've talked about, right? You just—

It's not about manipulation, it's about, yeah, just reaffirming, connecting.

Pointing to something.

Pointing to something.

The true social proof, true authority, true scarcity, That's all.

Um, this is fascinating. I've got a few more questions for you. I feel like, I feel like we've only been talking for 20 minutes, but it's been about almost an hour and 50 minutes now, and I've got a few more for you. I could talk about this stuff all day long. Um, I'm curious about how to use some of this information to get the truth out of someone. Is there any, any research that you've done or practices that you've implemented where you can use some of these 7 principles to see whether or not someone is telling the truth or to get them to be more honest about something, whether it's in business or, or just in life?

There's, um, you know, when we talk about reciprocation, the first thing we talked about, it turns out that self-disclosure is reciprocal. If you begin by saying, you know, I'm going to be honest with you about this, this, this, this, and that, people give you back. They disclose something about themselves that's honest, right? So it's, again, you have to be first, right?

Just like giving a gift first and someone wants to give it in return. Yeah, I use, I I apply that on my show where if I want someone to be vulnerable and open up about something, I always lead with vulnerability.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I always lead with like something that may be hard to say in front of a stranger, like something I've been through or something I'm proud of or a challenge I went through and how it made me feel. I try to open up about that so that others are willing to open up and be vulnerable.

Right. Right. I think that's, you know, so these are the things we've talked about. You were saying, well, how do we really use these principles? Well, one is you have to know them. You have to know what they are. But then it becomes, if you start out with the value system that you described at the beginning, which is you be of service, you use them to steer people correctly, you know, to things that they don't want to myths, to things that do have authorities who support it, to social proof that shows the popularity of what it is, though then everybody's winning.

Absolutely, everyone's winning. Where in your life are you still struggling to implement some of this? You know, um, besides the praise, the praise still a challenge, or is that—

yeah, it's still something I have to fight with. I have to to do it every time in order to get that, to be sure that people are properly acknowledged for their contributions, their thinking, what they have brought to the table. It's so easy to just go on and take that without acknowledging it. Without appreciating it publicly. So that's what I, I have to fight to be sure that I don't do that anymore.

And if someone listening or watching could only implement one of these principles on a daily basis, and you see would help them get incredible benefits, if they could only do one thing, what would that one be that you suggest that people get started with?

Hopefully they can incorporate all 7, but if it was just one So I would ask them to look to the one that's already there in the situation. Is there real scarcity that you can use? Is there real authority already? You've got all these testimonials, you've got all those credentials. Is there real social proof? Whatever it is, that's where you go. You go to the one that's— its engine is running, it's right there in the situation just waiting for you to harness it. But there's one thing I would recommend as a general strategy. As I have a colleague who has a teenage son, and he said, I wanted to give him some advice about going forward now that he's becoming an adult, and I'm asking all of my friends for a piece of advice for him. What would yours be, Bob? Right, so here's what it would be. When you go into a situation where you don't know people It's a new situation, unfamiliar. Think the best of those people. Think the best and that they will— they want to provide the best to you. If you think that, it allows you to be generous with them. And as soon as you are generous with them, there are two really important, maybe three important downstream consequences. First of all, by the principle of reciprocity, they will want to be generous with you. Secondly, by giving them this gift of whatever it is, they will like you more. And they will want to do business with you. And finally, after they see themselves doing business with you, they've made a commitment to you. They will want to continue to do business with somebody they like. And now you've got people interacting with one another who like one another and why— trying to be generous with that— with one another. I don't know how you get What a better work environment than that.

Absolutely. I love this. Uh, okay. Couple of final questions that I ask everyone at the end. Uh, but before I ask the questions, I want people to get the book Influence. I've bought this for so many people. I've given it to so many people over the last decade. It's now updated, expanded with a lot of new research information, uh, that can really educate you on how to integrate and implement these principles into your life and your relationships and your business. So I want people to get the book, get a few copies for friends. Again, over 5 million copies already sold, lots of incredible praise and testimonials, and it's given me incredible results in my life. I'm trying to incorporate all the principles in Influence by just letting you guys know all these things. And it's been a, it's been a joy to connect with you, Robert, and have you on, and I hope to have you on in person again in the future sometime. This, this question is called the 3 Truths question. I ask everyone at the end of the show. It's called 3 Truths. I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario that you get to— it's your last day on earth, many, many years away, and you get to live as long as you want, but eventually you gotta, you gotta go on to the next place. And you've accomplished every dream you have, Robert. You've got all these dreams, goals, you, the fulfillment, it all happens for you. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written work, video content, audio. It's all going to go with you somewhere else, or it's got to go somewhere else, but it can't be here anymore. And you get to leave behind 3 lessons to the world, 3 things you know to be true from all your experiences and all your wisdom that you would leave behind. What would you say would be those 3 truths for you?

One is one that we've just described. Go into new situations thinking the best of people, so which allows you to be generous. All right, the second is also something we've talked about. Don't have a favorite principle of influence because to think that the same principle is going to work on all audiences with all histories with you, with all kinds of types of products and services. No, you, you choose the one that's in there first, right? You, you, the, the thing that's, that's already there. And the final one really has to do with another book that I wrote called Pre-Suasion. And it is that there is a— people think that the way to make an appeal or a message more successful is what you put into the message, and that's those 7 principles, right? So that's true. But it turns out there's research to show what you say or do before you ever send your message puts people in a mindset that is consistent with your message. And then that message becomes even more successful. So what I would say is think about arranging for people to be in a state of mind that's consistent with the central feature of your message before you send it. All right, so if it's about, uh, it's about scarcity. So for example, there was a study that showed that if you have a message asking people to take a stand that, or to purchase something that's scarce, if you send them an email With two ticking down clock emojis in the subject line, they become 15% more likely to buy a scarce opportunity. Wow. Because you've put them in mind of scarcity.

Yeah, I love this stuff. This is fascinating for me. Um, I've got one final question for you, but I want to make sure people get the book. They can go online and get Influence, the new and expanded version, The Psychology of Persuasion. They can follow you on social media, Robert Cialdini, on Twitter, Facebook as well. Are you on Instagram also? I'm not sure.

Yeah, we are, but I think the best place is, uh, our, our website influenceatwork.com.

Influence at work. .com. Go there, you can opt in for the newsletter, you can get all the information. There's got data, research, all the papers are there, all that stuff. Um, you're, you're the, the godfather of influence, a lot of people call you. And it's been, it's been fun to watch, uh, your journey as I've started my journey to discover your journey and decades of research and work that you put in long before, you know, I got into this. And it's been fun to implement your research and your findings and really see incredible benefits. So, I appreciate that. And I want to acknowledge you, Robert, for the consistency of your efforts, the consistency in your dedication to finding the answers, to finding solutions on how we can improve the quality of our life and improve the quality of our business, our relationships through these practical and influential psychological principles. And I'm just so grateful that, that you continue to show up in the way you do. And then you continue to speak this message that you speak about it, you write about it, and continue to offer us tools to improve these different areas of our lives. So I really acknowledge you for how you've shown up in the world. It's amazing, Robert. And my final question for you is, what's your definition of greatness?

Um, I would say the ability to transcend your circumstances, not to be imprisoned or to have a feeling based on the circumstances that have been dealt to you. That you can get above and beyond those circumstances. Yeah.

Robert, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Good.

I enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts. Podcast and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance, and now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset, so enjoy this 14-second session on us.

I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong.

In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father was an emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.

Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.