GOT GUMPTION? The Power of Community and Effective Communication with Kenneth O'Neal

Have you ever met someone or been in a room and you saw someone and they just looked very intriguing to you? They look like the person you would want to go up and talk to and find out a little bit about their life, because there was something about them that drew you to them. Well, our guest today, Kenneth O', Neill, is that kind of person. I'm Dr. Robert Rome. I hope you're going to enjoy our podcast today.

Welcome to becoming wiser with Dr. Robert A. Rohm, author and world renowned public speaker, as he shares stories involving his experiences and lessons learned in a good, spirited, positive, and fun way. Here's Dr. Robert A. Rohm.

I first met Kenneth O' Neill a while back at a Zig Ziglar Phenomenal Products Tom Ziglar event where all of us were training and involved in learning and personal growth and development. And Kenneth, I've noticed him just kind of mixing and mingling with other people, and I could tell there was something special about him. He's a wise old owl, and I love wisdom. Our podcast is called Becoming Wiser. I am attracted to people who have wisdom, so I walked over and I started talking to him and. And it wasn't long before we struck up a great conversation. You're in for a real treat. Welcome, Kenneth. Thank you for being on our podcast today.

Thank you, sir. I am so honored to be here.

You are a prince of a gentleman and your background, you retired from being a cpa, but you had desire to go into motivational speaking and coaching and training. Tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today.

Well, in. In 2015, I got the surprise of my life. My wife of 26 years said she no longer wanted to be married. And you talk about devastation. In my book, I actually call that one of the dastardly Ds. A, B, C, D, divorce and death and disease. But there was the divorce and I was just broken over the thing. During the first 60 to 90 days, I found Tom Zigler and he invited me to go into their coaching and training program. I went to Dallas and after a couple of months ended up being one of the Ziglar Legacy certified coaches. So I've been one since 2015 and it has changed my life.

That's so cool. You know, I worked with Zig years ago when I lived in Dallas and got to know him, and he's such a great gentleman. Of course, he's passed away now, and Tom is running the organization. And then with Howard's leadership, they created Ziglar legacy. So you're involved in that. Tell me a little bit about how that program helped you personally as you were going through some of these changes in your Life.

Well, in 2015 was my fifth year at an academy preparatory school in Kerrville, Texas where we worked with 18, 19 year old kids that had been rejected by the armed services and they, but they still wanted to get an appointment to go to either Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and the Merchant Marine. So they would come to our program, which was a one year program to help them get an appointment. We would work on their speaking abilities. I taught effective communication. We worked on them as their time schedule and what they did with their time. Time time management is, as you know, is so important. So we worked with their schedule and I took the zigler material in 2016 when I came back from Africa. I went to Rwanda in November, December of 2015. And then when I came back I instituted all of the Ziglar philosophy and material into the academy prep program. And we had been getting about 7 out of every 10 students would get an appointment. And the GPA at that time was about a 3.90 or 3.85, 3.9. Well after putting Zigler's philosophy in the Zigler material and using everything Ziglar, we went to a 90% acceptance rate. So we got nine out of 10. And then through our goal setting and achievement BY Once again Mr. Zig Ziglar, we were able to increase that GPA that the last two years in the program before it was shut down by Covid in 2020. But the GPA was actually a 3.921 year. We had only one B out of all of those students. And they were phenomenal kids. I just loved those kids. They were so tremendous and it was an honor to work with them because they believe in God, they believed in duty to our country and they believed in freedom. And they were just terrific kids. And I still have them today. I get wedding announcements, I get birth announcements. I probably got more than 500 kids, you know, somewhere in the military. So just amazing.

I have to ask you because I was reading in the information that you did go to Rwanda and they were started out with like 45 orphans. And what, what, how did you end there? I mean this is a big old planet. I've been on six continents. I've been everywhere except Antarctica. So don't, don't know exactly what's going on on in Antarctica, but other than that I've course been to Africa and North America. South America, the other continents. But how did you end up in Rwanda? What did, what brought you there?

Well, what happened was, of course, I've always, because of my public accounting background, I've always kind of been a coach and a trainer, and I taught all kind of accounting and tax things. But I really got interested in effective communication and time management. I was doing a workshop at a hospital on time management and effective communication for caregivers, primarily nurses. And at the end of the program, the guy came up to me and he said, kenneth, would you give that presentation again to another 300 bed hospital? I said, sure. Here's my card. Call me. Let's have coffee. So about a week or so later, this guy's name was Vern. He called me and he said, let's have coffee. So I went to have coffee and he's telling me all about the hospital. And I said, vern, where is this hospital? And he said, it's in Rwanda. I said, Rwanda? That's Africa? He said, yeah. And I said, no. My grandmother told me if I would accept Christ when I was 12, I didn't have to go to Africa.

I'm telling you. Vern looked at me, doctor, and he said, God changed his mind. He wants you to go. I said, okay. He said, we're only going for 10 days. I was gone for almost 40 days. And what happened was, Dr. Rome you when you got a four year old little kiddo, and I'm standing on my knees to get down on his level, and in my hand I've got a little pair of khaki shorts, a T shirt, a pair of tennis shoes, and I don't speak his language, he doesn't speak mine. But he looks at me and I can see in his eyes, he said, is this really for me? Do I get to keep this? I mean, he just broke my heart. And so what happened was we had a. And it was just me and Vern. I mean, we didn't go with the church. He had started a company called English in Action. So we had an after school program of teaching English and computer skills and working with those kids. And I, you know, since 2015, I've been supporting them. We've been doing a lot of work on zoom calls. And I mean, it just broke my heart to see and I just fell in love with it. It was just tremendous. So that's how I got to Rwanda.

Wow. That's right. Have you ever been back since that initial trip?

Yes. And of course, every day, every week, I get requests. When are you coming back? When are you coming back? So, yeah, it's. It's great.

So now you co authored the book, talking about Tom Ziegler. And Tom's a dear friend of mine, and we go way, way back. Of course, I knew him when he was growing up in Dallas. There I was working with Zig and Gene, of course, his wife and Tom's parents. But you wrote a book with him called Road Trip. Tell me a little bit about that.

Right. That was a little small book that Tom and I wrote together. And it's primarily about relationships. You know, I believe that to have effective communication, you must have genuine relationships. And so that little book is kind of a handout book to introduce some of my beliefs and some of my concepts to people. But it's a road trip. And he, you know, co authored it and gave us an opportunity to be there with him. So it's just a tremendous. I just love Tom Ziegler. I mean, he is just a great guy.

Well, then you went on after that to write your own book, the Circle of Gumption. I believe you've got a copy of that, if you could hold it up for us to look. The Circle of Gumption. And I remember hearing the word gumption when I was growing up. It's not a very common word. My grandmother used to talk to me about having a lot of gumption. How did that book come about and tell us a little bit about what that means to you?

Well, when I was growing up, and of course, I'm a native from Georgia, born on the base at Warner Robins, Georgia. And my sister that was next to me, she was like 18 to 20 months younger than me. She contracted infantile paralysis when she was very, very young, like a year or so old. And so my mother had to spend 24, 7 taking care of her. So my mother and father, they got together and they said, you know, we're spending all of our time. Kenneth doesn't have anybody around here. Why don't we send him to the farm this summer? This was like when I was four or five years old, they said, let's take him down to the farm down in South Georgia, around Sylves, Osila.

All those little towns down there. And so they had a bunch of land, and they grew cotton and peanuts and tobacco. But the big thing they had was a big, large personal garden. And so I would sit on the front porch with my grandmother, and we would shelf ease and we would shuck corn. I bet you know that word. And so. But we had sat there. So I had a great relationship with my grandmother. And she was all the time saying, kenneth, see that person that's walking in the rain? They're not using their gumption. And I said, what is this gumption? I don't know. Gumption. And she said, well, it's determination and it's desire. It's getting involved and staying involved. And so I remember one time when I was about 6, she said, Kenneth, I want you to go pull the weeds out of that garden over there. And I said, okay. So I went over there in about 15 minutes, I came back, and she said, I know you didn't finish. I said, grandmother, that row is so long. And she said, kenneth, there are no. No short rows in the world. No short rows in life. And she said, now you're beginning to learn something about gumption. And she said, I want you to know. And here's what she told me, and this is in the book.

You're born with gumption, but you're going to lose it if you don't use it.

And today, in the world that we live in, and the reason that I am so concerned about effective communication and winning relationships is because we have such division. And see, a life of gumption is a life of integrity. And remember the circle that's on this book, what that circle stands for is completeness and wholeness. And that's what a life of integrity is. And so that's the way you should live your life and be a person of gumption. Because, see, we have people today. They walk away from their families. They leave their children, they leave their wives, they leave their husband. They quit their businesses. Did you know there's a Gallup poll out now? It says that more than 70% of the people that are working are so disengaged at their business that they're very low productivity. The major problem, though, is about 25% of that 70%, those people are so disengaged with the business, you'd be better off to send them home and pay them because it's costing you so much money, because they are intentionally trying to destroy the business. So my whole platform says, let's bring gumption back. Let's get excited about life. Let's tell people about who we are and whose we are so that we can get. So that we can have what I call an effective conversation. You know, we don't. We don't agree. And it's okay if we don't agree. I mean, we're all different. I mean, just because somebody's a different color, they believe something differently. They don't do what we do. We don't have to hate them. We can agree to disagree. Yeah. But we've got to have the conversations. And that's why, just like you said when we first met, you come over, you say, my name's Robert Rome. My name's Kenneth o'. Neill. We started a conversation. Yeah. And that's what we need to do. We need to talk. I am working on another book. And it's going to be called. The working title of the book is called. We Must have the Great Debate. Now, the great debate, to me means we have to discuss six topics. And there was maybe many more. But the six that I'm concentrating on. God, sex, money, relationships, religions. And number six, which is the real taboo, is politics. Those six things we need to have conversations about. And I was in a presentation in North Carolina the other day. And I made that same statement. And there was a lady in the back room, back of the room, and she told me. She said, those are topics we should never discuss. And I said, well, as long as we never discuss them. We're going to continue to have division. Because we cannot come to any agreement. Until we can support and encourage people in the things that they believe.

You know, I was thinking about something my father once said to me as I was listening you. My father used to say, it's okay to disagree, but it's not okay to be disagreeable. And I think that what you're saying there is so vitally important. That we who are a little bit older. Have a little bit of life under our belt. A little bit of experience. Have lived long enough to know that we don't all have to agree about everything. And that's okay. That's why we live in America. We have such a great country. Because of the freedom of speech, freedom of expression. You know, within the confines of the law. Not doing anything that's illegal, immoral, or unethical, as Zig used to say. But I'm so very impressed with the fact that you continue on this journey. I mean, I don't see any retirement in your future. You're. Somebody said, don't retire. You just need to refire. So you've got plans of moving on ahead, even in the future, with other things. Is that right?

That is. In fact, this year I was honored by our good friend, Mr. Howard Partridge. I purchased one of his franchises, the Phenomenal Business Coaching. And so we were working with business owners that somehow they have forgotten why they got into business. So we have systems related to their leadership, their Marketing, their sales, their accounting, their administration, and of course, their operation. So we are coaching in all five of those areas, and we relate it to the Zigler wheel of life, which has seven spokes on that wheel. So it's a well balanced, if you can. I mean, the quality of your work life and the quality of your home life, they should be balanced. In other words, you cannot work 18 hours a day, every day, and then go home and think you're going to have a great home life. It needs to be well balanced. So that's what we do.

Thank you. Speaking. And I wrote those down. I want to review them again. You said God, sex, money, relationships, religion. And what was the last one?

Politics. How could you.

Politics. I just missed it. I was writing so fast. Are you aware that politics comes from two Latin words? Poly means many, and ticks are blood suckers. So that's just a little silly joke that I heard, and I only know.

That because I've heard you say that before.

Feel free to use it, you know. So I want to ask you. You have a children's book for children ages 4 to 12 that plays off of the word gumption. Tell us about that. Yeah, there it is. Gumption, the long lost superpower. I have a feeling that that stands for something.

It does, it does. And so what I did in the back of the book, I created this. I think they call it an acrostic.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, tell us about it. Read it.

Okay, so the first letter, the G, the G in there is for Gump, for gratitude. All right, so number one, gratitude. And the U is understanding. Discipline. The M is motivation, P, perseverance. T, trust.

I is the biggie. Integrity. And then optimism and nobility. A person that lives a life of gumption is a person of integrity. And so all of these work together in this little book. We're going to. We're going to do a book on each one of the letters of the word gumption. And so the way the story begins and the reason we call it the long lost superpower is because this little boy in the book, his name's Stephen, and he's a. He's a rabbit, okay? And so we got little family rabbits. He comes home with his report card one day, and he makes a D, a D on his report card. And his mother says, stephen, you. You could have done better if you'd have used your gumption. And of course, he throws up his hands and he says, mother, gumption. I'm only eight. What does gumption mean? And she said, well, find A new word or to learn something new. You need to go to the library, you need to do some research, you need to do some reading. And so you need to go on this journey. So he goes to the library and he starts looking. And the first step that he comes to, he decides his gratitude. He says, I've got to be grateful for all the things I have. And gratitude is so wonderful because the more things you're grateful for, the more you get to be grateful. All right? And then so he says, okay, I've got to be disciplined. So he needs to understand discipline. And he says, I got to keep on going. I got to keep on going. Motivation. I'm going to keep on. And, you know, Zig Ziglar, you know, he talked about persistence and consistency, so keep on going. And so he came up, I have to trust and everything. And then, you know, at the end of the book, he kind of. He's down in the library and he kind of trips on something, and the flashlight, it focuses down on the book gumption. And he says, oh, I found it. I found it. A superpower.

Did you think that up yourself?

I did.

That's so. You're so creative. You're so creative, you know, and your background is so rich. And you were a cpa. You started a CPA company in Houston, Texas, years ago that's still in existence. Of course, you sold your part out, moved to Careville, Kerrville, where you were the last president of the Rotary Club in Kerrville. Is that right?

Yes, sir. I love it. It was a year of. Yeah. Lots of trials and tribulations, and I'm happy to say I'm past president.

I see the Rotary good there on the wall behind you. And what a great organization that is. Well, listen, I want to tap into, if I could, here. We've got a few more minutes. I know that our listeners are people who want to know about wisdom because wisdom will take you through life. I was doing a training earlier today and I shared how knowledge is knowing information, but wisdom is applying it. You know, I can know something and not apply it. Knowledge is something that you can go to school and acquire. Wisdom is something that you have to go through life and experience it. You know, when I. I know. Knowledge is being careful what you say. Wisdom is knowing to keep your mouth shut at the right time. Funniest thing I ever read, it said, knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, and wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. So I always thought growing up that a tomato was a vegetable. Come to Find out it's actually a fruit. But wisdom is, don't put it in a fruit salad because it won't taste right. So tell me a few things. If you could, maybe two or three nuggets of wisdom that you've learned in your years in your life experience, that would be helpful. If somebody's listening today and say, how do I have a better life? What kind of wisdom would you offer?

I think that my word there for that would be intentionality. I think that we need to live a life with great intentions. Now, Ziggler said it best, you know, be the right person, do the right things, and you can have everything in life you want just by serving other people to get what they want. So you can do that. Be intentional about what you do, and each day, plan your day, have a plan. Everybody talks about, well, I have these plans, but they don't properly prepare those plans. So I spend every Sunday afternoon, about 30 or 40 minutes planning my next week. And then every morning, all I have to do is to kind of just review what I've already planned. And I think one of the biggest things, Things that has helped me with this so much, of course, I. I'm a veteran of the United States Air Force. I spent four years in the Air Force, and one of those years, I. I call it a vacation in Southeast Asia. And I actually was in charge of the base at Tan San Nu and Saigon for a year. And. But the discipline, the discipline of the military, the intentional plans that they have, and it led me to really become a student of the military and especially World War II. And one of my favorite people like David Eisenhower. And I think that the whole story is in the day before June 6, D day, when he wrote that letter, and he said, look, if this goes bad, it's my responsibility. And he was a great leader because he took his troops and he had an ongoing conversation with them. He was empathetic to who they were and where they had been, because he could say, I know what you're going through. I've been there. And he could have these conversations, and he had an atmosphere that it was safe and secure for them to share with him. And in my book, I talk about a brand new second lieutenant.

Needs empathy. He needs to be able to listen to his troops and then have that open communication. And one of the great football coaches, Tony Dungy, you remember him?

Yeah, yeah.

Baltimore, Baltimore. And he had this thing that at the end of every year, he'd say, okay, what is your goal for next year? Year? And they would Have a long conversation with the player and the coach, and then he would ask them, they said, what is your goal for next year? And his question was, can I hold you accountable for your goals? Not my goals, your goals. But I'm going to hold you accountable. And in a community, we must do three things. And the base football team's a community. The community that you have around all the people involved, the personality insight is a community. And what we have to do, everybody must be supported, everybody must be given encouragement and hope. And then the biggie is everybody is held accountable through outstanding feedback. Now, the only way I can support you is I've got to know you. I got to know what you believe, then I can support you. So if you've got a friend that's on a diet, they're trying to lose weight, what are you going to do? You talk to them about it, how are you doing on it? So then you can support them. You know how much you're going to lose this week? Are you still doing your exercise program? You know.

Have a conversation with them and then hold them accountable for their. So the biggest thing is, I just think that we have to get involved in life, be intentional about it. And another good friend of mine, Jim Rohn, who you knew real well, you know, he says, get involved. Go at the highest level and never quit. Never quit. And that's why I don't believe in retirement. Yeah.

You know, I was reading not too long ago that the government keeps up with employees because there's so many of them that have retired. School teachers, police officers, government workers, postal workers, etc. I could hardly believe what I read. The question was, how long does a government worker live after they retire? They can retire at 65. And I thought to myself, well, probably five or 10 years, you know, And I kept reading the article. I almost fell out of my chair. Average government employee after they retire lives 18 months. It's a year and a half. And I think it has something to do with the fact when you have nothing to do, you die. So I've got enough stuff on my list to keep me busy till I'm about 300. So that's what I'm working on right now. A couple more questions here before we start wrapping this up. I always like to ask this question because it's so intriguing. If you could have dinner with anybody from history, I mean, you'd be in a room by yourself, just the two of you would have a nice dinner together. And you could spend a couple of hours asking that person who Would you choose and why?

Wow.

Well, I think that based on where I am right now in my life, there's only one person for that, and that's Jesus Christ.

And my question.

One of my biggest questions, and, you know, the guidebook.

Tells me that until I can sit down with him face to face, there's lots of things that I do do not know, and I will not know in this current life. But I want to ask him questions. You know, he was a great questioner. He never answered questions until they asked him, when's all this going to happen? So he did finally say, I'm leaving them, but I will be back. But there's things like. And I've got a bunch of this stuff written down, so I'm gonna take my workbook with me when I go.

The other day, I was reading, and I just. This is just food for thought. It's very rhetorical. Nobody has to answer this. But here's Jesus Christ on the cross, the crucifixion. And he says, I'm thirsty. And they give him that vinegar, if you'll remember.

And right after that, he died.

My question is.

Why? Why take the vinegar if in less than five minutes he wasn't going to be there?

See, that just shows the very fact that you're thinking. And questions are just so rich and deep.

I have a long list of questions, too, but I think, like, Job, you know, Job had a lot of questions until he came into a relationship and he met God. Um, and. And he said, I've heard about you, and now I see you, and I'll just keep my mouth shut. So it's probably not going to be anything that we're expecting. It'll be so unusual. Well, listen, one last question. I know that you've had a lot of heroes in your life. You've had a lot of experience. You travel all over the world and with the military and with your training and coaching, Rwanda and other things. Who would you say if you had to pick somebody that they were like a hero to you, someone that stood out in your life as a great example? Who would that be?

Well, I have a bunch of heroes. I really do. I'm. I am a. Just an awesome baseball fan, love and have loved the Brooklyn Dodgers for a long time.

But I have really got to admit that that person in my life and his philosophy has to be Zig Ziglar. And I will tell you what I did when I. When they asked me to apply for the Ziggler coaching program, I sat down and I compared Zig Ziglar to all the others. John Maxwell, Brian Tracy.

You know, Cantwell, all those people, everybody. And I put it all down there. And I asked one question.

Kenneth, who do you want to be like.

Who do you want to be like, yeah, who do you. And I tell you what, every day, because of who I am, and, you know, I spend two or three hours a week on Zoom with Tom Ziggler, and I just. I mean, that community and the people that are blessed by the things that Ziggler said and the things that he did.

Just phenomenal, man. And I. And I had the pleasure of.

Meeting him one time at an Amway meeting years ago, but I had, you know, I had really just some outstanding moments in Dallas with Gene, his wife. They were a little redhead, you know, I tell you what, Zig Ziglar, phenomenal, man. Phenomenal.

You know, I've heard so many people, I asked these questions to individuals, and many, many people say their hero was Zig. And I got to know him real good. I got to travel with him and to work with him for several years. And I got to say, there's some people that you get to know when you kind of get close to them and you see them at their best and you see them at their worst. You see them in different environments. Boy, oh, boy, he was for real. You know, some people I've gotten to know, and when I got to know them up close, I was a little disappointed. But with Zig, it was just the opposite. The more I got to know him, the more impressed I was with him. The only time I was ever with him that I was disappointed is one time we were playing golf together, and that, you know, he's human like the rest of us, but he hit. He had a kind of a bad shot. And, you know, he was. He was a. A great golfer, but not professional. And one time, I mean, I. Every time I hit the ball, it goes in a different direction, so I'm no golfer at all, but Zig hit one, and it kind of flopped a little bit. And he looked at me and he said, I knew I was going to do that, and, boy, it was my perfect time to say, then why'd you do it? And, I mean, we just got a big laugh out of it. He was just outstanding, and I just. I miss him, and I look forward to see him again, seeing him again. And I know you do as well. Well, listen, we have enjoyed having you, Kenneth o', Neal, on this podcast. You're an author, you're a businessman, you're a coach. But most of all, you're just a dear friend. And we are so grateful for your wisdom, the insight that you've shared with us today. And we know you have many, many more years of influence. The people you're now coaching, the people you're working with, the people that hear you when you speak, you just glow when you share because you share from your heart. You have a rich heritage, a great life. And I just want to know, I want you to know we love you and we count you as a dear partner in all that we do. You've been through our personality insights training. Of course, you're one of our consultants as well. And we just expect great things for many, many years to come and wish you the best. One last word, I'm going to turn it over to you. If someone's listening today and they could say, tell me something that would really make my life better. Tell me something that from all your years of experience that I could know that you've learned from your experience how to have a better life. What would you tell them?

The number one thing they need to do is to get around people that are doing what they want to do.

That's it. The law of attraction. You are around people. My wife asked me one time, we were doing a training. She said, where did you find all these people? She said, these are all such great people. And I told her, I said, sweetheart, I didn't find them and they didn't find me. We all found each other. Cause we're all looking for the same thing. We're all looking for the same thing. Personal growth and development, how to be a better person, how to be a better follower of the Lord in our daily life, how to be a better business owner, how to be a better husband, wife, grandparent, grandmother, grandfather. All of those things are important. Great words of wisdom. Kenneth, thank you so much for being our guest today. I look forward to seeing you somewhere along the journey. I'm sure our paths will cross real soon. Thank you so much. I'm Dr. Robert Rome. Thank you so much for being part of our training. Today, our podcast on becoming wiser, we've had a special guest with Kenneth o'. Neal. Feel free to follow up. You'll hear or find ways that you can get his books, his information. Be sure and check that out. It'll do you good. For not only yourself on his book on gumption, but also the one for children that's on gumption as well. Until our next time together, God bless you. Thank you so much. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.

For more information about this podcast, please visit www.becomingwiserpodcast.com.