Ep: 008 How Ross Tudor Helped One Client Double Their New Patients

All right guys, welcome back. This is episode 8, we got, uh, of, uh, of Growing Your Agency. Super excited today, we have Ross Tutor from Hot Corner Digital. Ross, thank you so much for joining us.

You're welcome, man. Thanks so much for having me on.

Yeah, absolutely. Super excited for this one today. Uh, we've been working with you for, uh, what, for a few months now? But, um, curious what we're gonna do today is just pick your brain on what you're doing with your agency We're going to dive into some tactical questions, how you're charging clients, you know, what tools you're using. And this isn't a plug for PhoneWagon, uh, just curious to learn, you know, and kind of pick, pick your brain. So first, before we kind of dive into all that, how did you get into this? Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of times people, you know, were working at agencies. How'd you get into it? How'd you start your own agency?

Yeah, it's exactly that. So I was at, uh, another agency here in Richmond, Virginia, uh, for 5 years. Um, from 2012, I guess, up until 2017. Went out on my own about a year ago.

Nice.

Buddy and I, yeah, we worked together. One other guy that was at our agency, Steven, two of us briefly went out to in-house jobs, liked them okay. And then immediately though, within a couple months, we're like, man, we kind of miss the agency world.

Yeah.

We started taking on some freelance projects here and there, just doing a little bit. And then slowly that part-time side hustle turned into one thing we were more passionate about and to something that seemed like a sustainable full-time job. So we went for it.

That's awesome. And I'm always curious, how did you acquire, uh, your, your first, let's call it first customer and then first few customers?

Yeah. So the first customer was just a friend of a friend. Uh, it was actually, uh, this company that it's called Pet Movers. They move your pets across the country if you're, if you're actually moving or if you're going across the country for a trip or whatever else, they arrange all that. Um, and so it was a friend who had done that. He had moved to another country and used this agency or used this company and saw they had some kind of subpar digital marketing going on and connected us.

Awesome. And then, and then so how are you acquiring customers now? Because I know that, you know, obviously it's great, you know, your first couple ones, friends of friends. I always say, you know, the barrier to entry for digital marketing, relatively low, but then to actually sustain it like you have for over a year, you know, and one, keep, keep clients and then to continually add new clients. Pretty difficult. How are you adding clients now?

Yeah, so it's very much, uh, when we first started, I guess last summer, we were hitting Upwork really, really hard.

We were on there almost every single person that I've talked to so far on this podcast and just in general are acquiring customers through Upwork, which is awesome.

Yeah, so that was a good way for us to get a predictable source of opportunities at least. And the ones that we got, we got to be pretty selective about them. We could tell pretty early on based on the description, like, this is going to be a good fit, this is not. These people want Sure. Project as opposed to these people might be interested in, you know, an actual relationship. So we hit that hustle hard, man. Like I was on there applying to as many jobs as I could and we were upgrading our account as often as we could to get more like application tokens or whatever they called it.

Yeah.

And from those we were able to establish some really good partnerships with actually other agencies, either traditional agencies or other digital agencies that didn't have a specialty in what we did, paid search, paid digital marketing, that kind of thing. And so we established those partnerships both with the people we, you know, we met on Upwork, but also with people I knew here locally that had that need and just wanted to outsource for their existing clients, outsource, you know, kind of the niche that we do.

Got it. So basically like a larger agency that does more like brand design, then they get a client that wants, you know, some PPC or some like paid ads to be managed. You guys white label the services for those guys?

Sometimes white label. Even better situations are when they just introduce us as—

Oh yeah.

—Digital and just bring us to the table. That's even better. But definitely some people are more comfortable with the white label arrangement and that's fine too. Awesome. Awesome.

So going right into, right into the next question, how do you charge? And not necessarily what are your prices, but more, are you retainer? Are you percentage of ad spend? Like, like what is, what does that look like? Cause I'm always curious, you know, when I'm talking to people, I think a lot of people wonder how other agencies are charging. So curious about that.

Yeah, we are 100% retainer based. My thought process has always been, and you know, my first boss in this industry kind of sold it to me this way. If we charge a percentage of ad spend, we're always going to be at least a little bit incentivized to make you spend more, even if that's not the best business decision for you. 100%. To avoid that kind of conflict of interest, we'll always just charge a flat monthly management fee. Now obviously that can scale up and down if we're adding on Facebook, for adding on landing pages, things like that. So we do have the opportunity to scale accounts. Yeah, but not just by recommending people spend more.

Does, does the fee though scale? Like if I spend $500 a month on Google Ads or if I spend $10K, like is the retainer the same?

Yeah, that's, that's a good question. Um, and some of that comes down to us doing a good job during the sales process of identifying, you know, the complexity of the account. And so generally speaking, a $10,000 a month account is going to be more complex, you're going to have more campaigns, maybe more locations, more ad groups. Than a $500 a month. So we try to price that accordingly. But if somebody's just like, hey, this is working really well, I want to double my spend, great. That means you're going to get even better value. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you just, you just dial it up. That's awesome. Um, what, uh, what kind of clients are you working with? Service-based businesses, e-commerce, medical? Like, what does that look like?

Yeah, so we're primarily lead generation focused, primarily in the B2C space, couple of B2B accounts. And a couple of e-commerce, but our bread and butter really is that B2C lead gen based business. So that's home services, that's medical. Those are the two biggest areas for sure. Got it, got it.

So businesses that would be like on like a HomeAdvisor or an Angie's List or like a Thumbtack kind of businesses, right?

Exactly right. HVAC companies, plumbers, roofers, medical practices— that could be dentists. Yeah, a local, you know, medical practice as well.

Got it. Uh, talk to me about your pitch to these guys. Um, because I'm always curious about, you know, when especially when you're pitching, you know, I've pitch these guys and used to sell them leads as well. And when you're talking especially HVAC, you know, one of the things with them is like, look, and this is my perspective, I'm obviously going to turn it over to you, but you know, for them it's like you could get them, you know, these service jobs, right? Like, hey, come out, you're gonna do AC services, but then boom, you might land like an install or like a new, you know, a new install which could be like $10K, which obviously makes the return on ad spend, return on investment a lot higher. So like when you're talking to them and you're pitching your services? What does that conversation look like? Like, how are you pitching the services?

Yeah, that's a really good question. For them specifically, you're exactly right. And a lot of those folks don't really want more of those little service jobs. Uh, that's really true with plumbers, stuff like that. They're like, we have all the business we need. And so for those, a lot of times you ultimately end up selling, how can we keep your sales pipeline full? Maybe when you're not in peak season, when it's not 100 degrees outside and your air conditioning breaks, we're going to build you a lead generation system that is going to be sustainable not just somebody who's going to click a button and turn some ads on and off. And it is kind of a tough sell for sure. I mean, we really try to position ourselves not just as a PPC vendor, but somebody who is going to be more of a strategic partner in your business. You know, we, we do offer more than just Google search ads and stuff like that. So it's a bigger package that we're selling. Um, you know, one of the ways we try to differentiate is by getting to know their business a lot better than just the Many PPC vendors out there who are going to take your list of keywords and run some ads. And ultimately, I know, I know you're not trying to make this a PhoneWagon thing, but call tracking is a big way we're able to get to know people's businesses a lot better and way we can differentiate ourselves.

Yeah, and that, I mean, that's going to be my next question because I always felt like when I was working kind of like either selling leads to them, it was always this weird like, like not conflict, but it was like sales and marketing. It's like if you're delivering them a lead or a phone call and then they either don't answer the call or they don't respond to the lead or follow up with it. It's like, hey, I, you know, and then they're just going to come back to you and say like, hey, you know, your leads are— the leads are down or the leads are bad. But then there's like the marketer's argument of like, well, you didn't answer fast and you didn't follow up with them. And, you know, data tells us that 80% of sales are made on the 5th to 12th contact. And, you know, you need your lead response time to be like within 5 minutes. So like, how are you like integrating into their systems? Like, basically, I guess my question is more— is like, how much visibility do you have? Like, are you seeing, you know, what happens after that handoff from like lead to, you know, like when the lead comes in? Um, and how much, you know, I guess, uh, yeah, just I guess interaction do you have with that?

Yeah, so that varies from client to client, and a lot of it honestly is how sophisticated their CRM is. Sure, yeah. And sometimes we have great visibility and they're able to tie it all the way through the sales process. Our best clients are the most sophisticated and give us the most insight into that process. Um, in every case though, we are able to— like, we're monitoring calls, we are actually listening to them. And there's a temptation to say like, oh, call longer than 2 minutes is a qualified call. Like, well, sometimes they just didn't pick up the phone, right? So we actually have no idea. So I actually like to go in and listen to every single call and, you know, give some quantitative and qualitative feedback on number of these calls that actually turned into new patients. And again, the best clients are the ones who understand the difference between sales and marketing and say, look, this was a qualified call. If we didn't get them in for an appointment or, you know, get a quote booked at their house, whatever, that's on us, that's on our sales team. That was somebody that theoretically should have been a customer. Uh, so it's cool. And then the one, uh, the one really cool anecdote for recently, client who just started using PhoneWagon last month, um, it's a 4-location, like, medical practice here in Richmond. And they previously were considering cutting back on their, like, reception staff. They thought they had too many people employed. And after 1 month of calls, my feedback to them was most people are waiting like 2 or 3 minutes before anybody answers the phone. These are— and kind of showed, shared with them the data of the calls that did get answered, how many of those turned into new patients. Like, you guys are losing business because people aren't picking up the phone fast enough. So now they are not cutting back and they're actually contemplating hiring more people. So you guys are creating jobs, man.

Wow, that is awesome. No, but I mean, that's such good data too, because like without that data, without you as the person looking into that data as well, like they might not know. Like, they look on the surface like, oh, we cut back but you're bringing, you know, it's really you just using, you know, we're just the tool, but it's really you going to them and saying like, hey, if you do this, you know, let's say you're closing at 50%, right? You have all these calls that are waiting this long. If you just answer these calls, half of them are going to turn into, you know, new patients, you know, new business, whatever it is. But I mean, that's an awesome way because I think, I think the biggest, like, data is only so valuable. Like, it's the way you interpret and like actually act on the data where then, you know, you can create a lot of the value. So That's awesome.

And it's really important as a marketer as well, I mean, to get those insights, see exactly what customers are asking about when they call in and exactly what kind of things that the salespeople are saying. 'Cause then it helps me as I'm writing ad copy, as I'm thinking about keywords, or if people are calling about something irrelevant, then that's like really good way for me to find some new negative keywords I can add and things like that. So the whole thing works really well in tandem.

That's great. That's great. Yeah, just as a side note, I was working with this plumbing client a few years ago in New York and I was driving calls and he was getting all these calls from people and he wasn't closing any. And I was like, why are you not closing any? I started listening to the calls, and what I realized is like, you know, someone would be like, hey, I'm in the Upper East Side of New York, I need, you know, a plumber to come, same-day appointment, I'll pay the premium. But then the guy was like, all right, well, you have to pay, you know, $400 upfront on the credit card before I even send the tech out, because he was scared that, you know, he wouldn't get the jobs or whatever. And I'm like, man, this is killing your conversion rate. Like, no one else is asking for like upfront payment before they send the tech out. Just send the tech out and let, you know, let the numbers play out. And he started doing that. He started going out to more jobs. And once you're out there, I mean, he was closing like 80% of them anyway. So I was like, just go out there. Like, if it's especially a plumbing need, no one's like— doesn't want their toilet to get fixed right now, you know. They're not really shopping that around that often, especially in like a high-income, you know, neighborhood of Upper East Side. So it was like, you know, things like that, being able to get that kind of insight. And I think like a lot of these businesses too, being able to then lean on the marketer as like that true partner, like you were saying, instead of like, oh, just manage my ad spend, drive me leads. But it's like, no, I'm going to give you recommendations. Recommendations from this marketing and from the conversations for you to help you close more deals. Because if they close more, return on ad spend's better, they increase ad spend, hopefully everyone's happy, right? Exactly right.

Like I said, man, it really is just better for everyone all around. Makes me better at my job, you get better results as a business, everybody's happy.

Yeah, that's awesome. Um, all right, so a couple things. I'm curious, how are you, uh, what does your reporting look like? Um, tools that you use? Frequency, like cadence, you know, is it weekly, biweekly, monthly? And then, yeah, just like kind of communication that you have as well.

So we do formal reports. We use a tool, and I've never actually heard anybody say it out loud, but it's either Swydo, Swydo, S-W-Y-D-O. I've never heard anybody actually say it, so however that's pronounced. But we use that, and we're relatively happy with it. Sure, it definitely has some, you know, all the integrations we really need at this point. So yeah, we do that. We send out a formal monthly report, uh, try to get those out within the first 5 business days of the month. And so what are you pulling?

You're pulling in AdWords data? Are you pulling in like search results, like SEO stuff, or is it mainly just paid? Like, like just paid?

Yeah, so we don't do any sort of SEO, uh, on our agency, but yeah, it's AdWords, clicks, web conversions, phone calls, like all that, just all in one. So we usually do 3 or 4 little, you know, widgets up at the top with your, the highest level things, and then top keywords for the month, year-to-date chart, things like that. That's great. Yeah, really, really simple. And then we'll include a summary with that. That's— I really enjoy writing those summaries. That's another thing, like, it's kind of the toughest thing to automate, but it's the way that I really get to stay really familiar with every account and kind of tell the story of what's going on. Anybody can kind of produce a chart, but I feel like taking an hour or two to write an actual report With, you know, some level of a story behind it is a really, really good thing. Again, for both me and the client.

Long-form writing is powerful because, I mean, you're able to get your thoughts down. I saw someone tweeted the other day about how like startup CEOs or founders, you know, when they instead of just doing like the board deck, the ones that are success— it was some tweet from some VC, I forget who it was, but it was basically like founders that write long form like, uh, about what's going on with the company in addition to the board deck. He's like, he's never backed an unsuccessful one. Like, all— every single one that does that is successful. So I thought that was interesting.

Yeah, I love that. That's really cool.

Yeah, it's a really cool, cool stat. So you do that monthly, um, using Swydo. Are you— what do they respond like? Do you have meetings as well, or is it kind of like you're just pushing? Um, what does that look like?

Yeah, again, that varies, but we usually at least offer a call with that, like, hey, let me know if you want to jump on a call within the next, you know, few days to go over this. Some people want to, some people don't, you know. Some clients obviously are just more involved than others. In every case, we do try to send something mid-month also, though. Maybe not a formal— definitely not a formal report, but try to send something, a couple insights, a couple things we're working on. We never want to go a full month between people hearing from us. And some clients we have calls with every week where we're going over reports that we'll pull. We have some automated things set up that will pull, that gets sent out every Monday morning or every Friday morning, things like that.

So totally varies. Awesome. What are, um, so just a couple more questions. What are, what are some cool— are you using Zapier right now?

Uh, we do have, so we use Unbounce as our landing page provider. Yeah. And so we do have a few, a few zaps set up, um, for some obscure CRM connections.

Okay, cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, awesome. And then, uh, last thing that I always close it out with, uh, well, actually, before we get there, I'm curious, what does your team look like and how, how do you grow? What does your business look like in the next, uh, next year?

Yeah, so right now it's just two of us. Uh, it's me and then my co-founder is down in Charleston. Um, we have kind of a part-time employee, another one of our former co-workers who's awesome and has been helping us out on the side. He's also in-house elsewhere somewhere now. Hopefully we bring him on within the next 6 months or so. Yeah, we take the lead on a lot of our paid search efforts. Beyond that, that is a really good question, man. I mean, we're in a phase right now where we're still less than a year old and are trying to— we've got— I never want to say a steady base of clients, knock on wood, right? But we're at a place where we're able to focus on the business itself and getting processes in place, onboarding, reporting, like we just talked about, things like that, to where we can bring on another 5, 10, 15 accounts without sacrificing quality. Ultimately, to do that, I think it's going to be bringing on people with some real PPC experience, turning over a lot of the day-to-day account management to them and letting the two of us go out and really focus on bringing on new business.

Yeah, love it. Awesome. So final question, I'm always curious about this about everyone. What's your morning routine look like?

Oh, well, it's different recently. Now I've got, I've got a new puppy sitting at my feet. He's starting to wake up from a nap. So to get him out and get him situated. I also just upgraded recently to a standing desk, which I cannot recommend highly enough. Really? So the first hour or 2 hours of every day, I stand the entire time. I mean, it's one of the adjustable ones, so I can sit throughout, but I have found that I wake up, I make my coffee, I go to my standing desk, I quickly read, read some news locally, read a couple of PPC blogs, get some of that stuff out of the way while I literally stretch my legs and get ready for the day. And I try not to really check emails or anything like that until like, I don't know, an hour or so into the day.

Yeah, I want to get better at that. That's good.

Yeah, I try to get myself nice and situated about physically and mentally ready for the day. Get a lot of distractions out, um, and then get going. Get in the zone.

All right, awesome. Uh, Ross, thank you so much, uh, for, for joining us. This is going to be awesome. Where can, uh, where can people find you?

Yeah, look us up at hotcornerdigital.com. Um, follow me on Twitter if you want, @rtutor9. I don't tweet very much.

All right, @rtutor9 on Twitter, hotcornerdigital.com. Ross, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I'm Ryan Shank. This is Episode 8 of Growing Your Agency. Thank you guys. See you, Ross. Take care, Ryan.

Thanks, buddy.

All right, see ya.