How Many Sales Calls Can You Really Make In One Day?

Hey friends and fans, Billion Dollar Sales Coach Ryan Dohrn here, and welcome to another edition here of the show. Friends, you are in for a very, very special treat. As a lot of you know, I very rarely have guests on the podcast, and quite honestly, it's because doing the podcast and the show here on YouTube, friends, it just takes a lot of time. So coordinating guests, it's like, wow, with traveling 14 days and speaking 60 times a year, it's just hard to coordinate. Well, I have the opportunity this month, friends. If you don't know, I'm gonna introduce you to the Sales Whisperer himself, and it is one of my friends. His name is Wes Schaefer, and he's gonna be answering your listener questions along with me, and we're gonna have a ton of fun together today. So stick around, stay close, buckle up, friends. It's gonna be quite a ride of fun coming up next here on the show. Live from the Braintree Media Studios, this is the Ryan Dohrn Business Show. And let me tell you something, friends, you're in for a treat today because I have the Sales Whisperer himself, uh, Wes Schaefer here. And you remember in the past we've had Mike Obert that's been on, we've had all kinds of different people that have been on. But I really feel like we're gonna get a different perspective today. But, you know, Wes, tell everybody, you know, what's your sales background and, you know, what really qualifies you to be the whisperer that you are?

Oh, I'm not in sales, man. I'm in food handling. I just, I eat. What? I gotta talk to my assistant. I don't—

what?

Where am I, man? Look, okay, you see, you see that?

Yeah.

Yeah, I, I was a meteorologist in the Air Force, so that's how I got qualified for sales, man. I mean, then every great salesman comes from meteorology. Didn't you know?

How did I not know that in the time that we talked on before on your show? How in the world did I not, uh, did not know that? That's great. That's excellent. So hey, maybe you can tell me—

I am, yeah, I am proof. I am proof you do not need a background. You just jump into sales. And unfortunately, you've probably seen this. A lot of people do kind of fall into sales. I intentionally left the Air Force to get into commissioned sales in 1997, but most people fall into it. Some other job didn't work out. They get maybe a little desperate, bad habits start forming, and sales ends up with a bad name. But I, yeah, 28 years ago, I got started on purpose in sales. How about that?

How about that? That's fantastic. So does meteorology, does it apply at all to the sales business, do you think? Because it's always kind of stormy. You know, out there in sales land.

Dude, is that a dad joke?

That's a—

I'm really good at them.

I'm really good at dad jokes. I'm kind of getting known for it, you know.

So, well, I tell people, I tell people, in a way it does, right? Because every day I have to look you in the eye with a straight face and tell you what the weather's going to be, even though 24 hours I did that and I was totally wrong and you got mad at me. But I'm like, no, today Today, you can trust me. No, really. Today, I know what I'm talking about. Today is different.

Right. The only job where you can be wrong regularly and not lose your job, which is great. I know.

Yes.

Hey, so, Wes, one of the things that my folks do is they send in listener questions. And if you're cool with it, what I'd love to do is just share these questions with you and then both of us kind of throw our perspectives at it. And what I'd really love is if we disagreed, if we got into a sword fight today, that'd be kind of fun. But what do you think? Are you down with— there you go. Are you down with answering some of those?

My swords are handy, so you better have your swords handy.

Nice.

Nice.

Are you down with some listener questions?

Yeah, let's do it.

All right, cool. The first one comes from Dave in Boston, and Dave is asking this question. My boss wants me to make 65 to 70 outbound phone calls each day. Sorry, I got to laugh a little bit. That seems like a crazy high number according to Dave. What do you see in other sales environments today? Is that close to being accurate? Or is this guy just crazy? Um, you want to take a stab at it first, Wes? What are you thinking about the 65 to 70 outbound calls a day?

Yeah, that's fine. Um, and like anything, it depends on the industry, depends on what other things they're supposed to do. But I tell people all the time, the number one job of a salesperson is not to sell, it's to prospect, you know. So like it or not, because they'll always say I'm really good once I get in front of a qualified prospect. And I'm like, well, that's your job, right? You know, we have, uh, overcomplicated things over the years. All the sales gurus coming up with acronyms and whatever— BDRs, SDRs, go-to-market, account-based marketing, medic, spin. Like, yeah. I keep saying, and I think I invented this because I did a Google search and I didn't see anybody else saying it, but I've been saying for a while that humanity is the next killer app.

Mm-hmm.

And you can't fake a phone call.

Right.

Okay. And, and I tell sales managers all the time, you, you manage activity and you pay on results. Okay. You can, by— without an auto dialer, you can dial the phone 35 times in about 90 minutes. Okay, so that's leaving voicemails, that's a couple of wrong numbers, that's leaving a message with an assistant, that's being directed to voicemail, that's being connected a few times with the decision maker. So 70 calls should take about 3 hours, right? Okay, 70 dials of the phone. And so now, of course, again, it depends on the industry. Are you— I mean, when I was at A tech salesman. I had, um, you know, 18 states. I couldn't make 70 calls a day, but I didn't have to. You know, I had a huge territory, I had leads. I did make cold calls, I would book appointments. And then, you know, like, I was in, I was in Austin. That's what moved me to California. I would, I'd set one good appointment, LA or Redlands or Phoenix or San Diego. Then I would call like a madman all around that area. I'm like, hey, I'm going to be in San Diego in 2 weeks. Do you have time? And so I would, I would call until my calendar was full, you know. So, so no, 65 to 70 is not crazy, but there are a lot of caveats in there. But, you know, what's old is new, right? Picking up the phone and leaving a message is more effective now than, than in a lot of the last 5, 6, 7 years.

I agree with you because so many people have the philosophy that no one has phones or no one's picking up the phone. And so they don't even use voicemail to their advantage. I tracked it back over the course of 6 or 8 months, and I can see about a 20% to 25% lift in email replies when I leave a voicemail that says, hey, you don't have to call me back, but if you'd reply to my email, I would really sure appreciate it. I find that voicemail is, you know, for Dave there in Boston, a differentiating factor. The other thing, though, is I feel what you're saying because a lot of folks are trying to work smarter and not harder.

Yeah.

And I just really push against that pretty, pretty, pretty steadily because I feel like you have to work really hard in sales and be really, really smart about it. But if you're looking for a silver bullet, then my little tagline kind of goes away. My tagline is, if sales was easy, everybody'd be doing it.

Yeah.

It's a freaking hard job. Now, hey, you've been doing this a while just like me. Do you feel like it's harder today than it was 20, 30 years ago? I feel like it's, it's, it's harder even with AI and everything else. How do you feel about it? Harder? Not as hard? What do you think?

I think it's harder because of AI, because of social media. Um, there's— I just made a post today. I see this Instagram reel, this influencer, um, that does like fitness stuff has a video of a A woman crying in bed because she got caught cheating on her spouse. Okay. And the guy's like, you want to get jacked? You know, DM me the word, you know, strength or something. I'm like, what? What is this? What does one have to do with the other? Right. You know, and, and part of me wanted to flame the guy. All right. But I'm like, no, I'm not going to engage and give him the algorithm boost. You know, I'm just like, Like less interested, like, don't show me this guy.

Right.

Like, so we only have so many hours in the day, right? We only have so much attention we can give. And, and these people know how to tug on our strings, you know? And, and so people are getting distracted more easily. And so, and that's what makes it harder. So there's still the same solution, still the same humans with the same fears, worries, concerns, doubts, you know, dreams, goals, ambitions. But we're just more tired. We're more distracted. We're more amped up on coffee and alcohol and CBD and THC and everything else. And then to try to get their attention for a second, you've got to be better. You know, you got to understand how to, you know, the old adage, you must meet your prospect. You must meet them where they are, right? You must enter the conversation going on in the mind of the prospect. So you've got to be very diligent and skilled at it today. Agreed.

Yeah. Diligent and relevant. So the other thing too, David in Boston, with your question there, is that you probably should do what your boss says. Just saying. There is something about that, Wes, like doing what you're told.

Yeah. And it's, you know, and look, I've, you know, you don't quit a job, you quit a manager, right? So if there was a bait and switch, if they changed up the thing, the rules and You know, it's not what they said when they hired. Okay, I get it. But, you know, it's easier to find a job when you have a job.

Right.

You know, and I get it too. Like, I've rarely have I ever had good training at a company. I mean, I started The Sales Whisperer because I bought a sales training class on my own when I was an employee. You know, from '98 to 2005, I made at least $100 grand in sales. You know, and that's like $175 grand today's dollars. But I was still, I knew I was working too hard. I knew I didn't have really good systems and processes in place. I just, I was good with people. I hustled. I had, you know, wife, I had kids back to back to back. Uh, I had to put food on the table. You know, I was motivated, but I, I invested in myself. Then I became a licensee of that guy. He became my full-time mentor. Uh, and, and I went out on my own, uh, following that path. So, you know, if, if your company does great training, then consider yourself lucky. It's not the norm. Uh, and so if, you know, if you got a paycheck, you got benefits, you got free coffee in the break room, you know, there's something to that. Uh, bloom where you're planted, and it'll be easier to find your next gig, you know, if you're excelling where you are.

Agreed. I tell people all the time when they're talking to me about how they don't like their boss or whatever, the grass on the other side of the fence always looks greener. It always does. And then you get over there and you realize there's dog doo-doo and everything else over there too. And more than anything, the grass still has to be mowed on, you know, kind of either side of the fence. So, cool. So, David from Boston, I hope that is helpful to you, my friend. So, make those calls and make the most of them. And also, just be real relevant, you know, in the calls you're making rather than a bunch of generic calls.

Yeah.

All right. So, the next one here, Barb from Savannah, not too far down the road from me here in Augusta, Georgia. Ryan, why are you so against asking questions on sales calls? It seems so straightforward to inquire with prospects and learn about them. So, if you don't mind, Wes, I'll take a stab at this one first and let you give your thoughts. I am— Barb, just to be clear, I am not against asking questions on sales calls. I'm just against people that train to ask questions you always know the answer to. Or to ask questions when you can find things online. So, as a very vivid example, I don't like it when someone says to me in a sales call, tell me more about your business. The reason is because there's this thing called the internet where you should get online and learn a little bit about the business. The other thing— and so, Barb, I think there's a little confusion there. The other reason I don't ask people what their budget is, and the reason that I don't ask their budget is because it forces me to live in their reality. Instead, what I try to do is present to them what others in similar situations have done or spent in an effort to fix the pain that they're in or fix the problem that they have. So, if I ask you your budget, Wes, what's your budget? And you're like, uh, $5,000. Well, you have a $50,000 problem to fix. So, instead, Barb, what I would rather say is, it sounds like you have a $50,000 problem to fix. We've fixed these problems before for others, and it's probably going to be about whatever it is, $50,000 to fix the problem or whatever the circumstance is. Had I asked her or him or them their budget, I would have tried to figure out a way to make a $50,000 problem go away for $10,000. It's not going to work out. So, I'm not against questions. I know you're not either. But I just don't ask as many questions as I once did because of this thing called the internet. But Wes, what are you— what are your thoughts? I know I've listened to you talk about questions before. So, What are your thoughts on open-ended questions?

Man, it's been selling. I got so many, I got to look around. Took me a second.

I wondered where you were going.

Okay. You know, and this has been true for decades. You know, there's a lot— you have to ask the right questions. And, you know, I sat in on a call today for a client, and I've got them evaluating different software for their business in the construction commercial General contractors in commercial space.

Great.

And I haven't sat in on a call like that in a while. And the sales rep, she did a good job, but it was very formal and structured, very old school, going around the horn. Tell me about what you do. What are your responsibilities? And I wanted to say, just get on with the program. But she was good about it. So, I mean, it was fine. And because again, everything has changed. Everything goes full circle. I learned a long time ago, really through my own podcast, interviewing experts, interviewing founders of tech companies who have analyzed sales calls, because I was a big fan, a big proponent of a couple of things. One, whoever's asking the questions is in control of the conversation. You know, so, and that is still true. But through analyzing phone calls, they realized on the closing call, the, the conversation, that the time on the call was almost literally 50/50. I think it was 51/49.

Okay.

Um, and, but the assumption there was that the, the closing questions, the critical questions had already been answered and adequately addressed leading up to the call. To the closing call. And so again, the assumption is it's B2B, a complex sale. It's not a one-call close. So the hard things were discussed and adequately addressed— price, availability, compatibility, warranty, blah, blah, blah, blah. So now they're just bringing it home. And so, um, you've got to be able to read the room. How does the, how does the, the prospect come on to the call? You know, you can tell, are they drivers? Are they goal and task oriented? Are they people and relationship oriented? Do you need to take your time and dance a little bit? But, you know, when friends get together, you do ask a lot of questions up front. How are you? How's the family? How's work? You know, they got a hobby. How's the rebuild of the Corvette coming along? Okay, you get caught up and then you tell stories.

Yeah.

Remember that time when you were a freshman in high school? Oh my gosh, that was so crazy. So can you share relevant things? And it can be case studies, it can be pertinent things that build up your credibility in that engagement. But if a prospect feels like they're in the Inquisition, like it's the FBI, where were you at 2:32 PM? Last Thursday, you're like, yeah, that's no bueno. People don't want to be in that.

Yeah, agreed. Yeah. And so, there was a conversation that I heard many, many years ago in sales training, which was always ask open-ended questions. The problem I have with open-ended questions is that a lot of times it opens up paths that I don't even want to go down. And so, I agree with you 1 million percent. The person asking the questions is in control. And I think we lose control of the conversation when we give too much Over to the client. Now there's this philosophy though, this like empty backpack philosophy. You go in with nothing. You're there to discover. You're there to learn about them, and I get it. I get it. I just find that younger buyers see it as a waste of time. That's just me. I see it. I'm 53. I'm dealing with a lot of folks that are younger than me right now in the sales business, and I find that a lot of times their tolerance for all these questions—I feel like what they're saying, even though they're not saying it—is come on, old man. You can do it. Like, you don't have to ask all these questions, old man. You can do it. You just tell me how much it is.

Yeah. Well, the funny thing is, I mean, I'm 55, right? So, the sales rep today, she was much younger than me, but she was following that old-school pattern.

And I feel like that mismatch is kind of something that kicks the ball down the right direction, which does lead though to Sarah from Washington's question. And that is, why are prospects so hard to nail down for a meeting? Is there a general feeling out there that salespeople are a waste of time? And I would say, Sarah, and then I'd love to hear what Wes says about this. I think the answer is yes. Most salespeople tend to waste folks' time. But, you know, Wes, what do you think? Why is it so difficult to get people to a Zoom meeting? What's your opinion?

Man, this is— everything is interconnected. Okay? Yes. Salespeople, most salespeople are a waste of time. Uh, they're not prepared. Uh, they're following an old script. They're, they're running, uh, an unproven playbook. Uh, they're talking down or at prospects. Um, and so, and there is a lot of information on the internet. There's a lot of misinformation on the internet. Uh, so we need to realize that when the internet came along, the role of the salesperson changed. Before the internet, you had to go through the salesperson because you couldn't get information. They were the keepers of the knowledge. Like, what's the MSRP on this truck? Now we know what it is. Now we have too much information. So the salesperson became sort of the confidant or the one, you know, Zig Ziglar has always said, you know, we're selling the transference of a feeling and that feeling is confidence.

Right.

So that became a more important role, helping the prospects say, you know what, you're right to consider this, that, and the other. You know, there's 3 other Ford dealers nearby. Chevy makes a good truck. Toyota's fantastic. Here's why, based on what you've told me, this is a good choice for you, right? So we're now, we're helping them have confidence in their decision because now there's too much information. And now AI, in a way, like in the misinformation, now we're kind of at a hybrid. We, we have access to too much information, but now we also don't trust the information we get. So do we even have accurate information? So we're, we as the salesperson are still floating in that middle ground. You know, are you, are you proving to the prospect that you know what you're talking about, uh, and can help them A, make the right decision, or B, not make a horrible decision?

Love that.

You know, so that's where I see our role is today. And, and how do you cut through that? Like I say, humanity is the next killer app. Leave a voicemail, send a true email that you crafted, not one that AI sent out, right? Send a handwritten note, right? I've got, I've got cards with stamps. Yeah. I mail to people. Yeah. You know, it's like old school. And you see, you probably get these Looms. They use AI, they'll do a screenshot. This guy had a screenshot of my website from like a year ago. Like, I've updated, changed it. Like, where do you get that? Probably some caching, you know, some AI to get a screen grab.

Who knows?

And then, and it was a Loom and it was sent to me and had my name merged in there. But you know, it's not real when they start off with, hey, I was taking a look at your site. Instead of, hey Wes, I was checking out your site.

Agreed.

Big difference, right?

It is. It is. I also feel like, and tell me your thought on this, I feel like there's no value. People aren't seeing value. If people see value in the conversation, they'll schedule the meeting. So, I just really feel like a lot of times we're not giving them any type of competitive intelligence. We're not telling them we can save them money, save them time. We're not highly relevant to them. I'm not proving to them I've worked with other folks. See, I'm a big fan of saying, hey, Wes, I'm working with Company A, Company B, Company C, and they're really loving it. I'd love to get 15 minutes to share with you how we might be able to help you as well with this particular problem. If this is a problem, I'd love to help. 15 minutes. I swear, if it's longer than that, I'll eat my shoe. So, I'm bringing value and I'm being respectful of people's time. I feel like the default in people's brains is 60 minutes. So, if you don't ask them for a specific amount of time, they're like, oh, God, here we go, 60 minutes with this guy. And the other piece is you need to offer some value, like competitive intelligence, a report, some data. I mean, something that makes me go, I'm going to give you 15 minutes, because I sure as hell am not giving you an hour. There's not a chance that people are going to give you an hour to, you know, an hour to talk.

Yeah.

So, I feel like there's a lot of salesmanship that really needs to be fine-tuned, and people really need to pay attention to. The vast majority of people aren't trained. They don't listen to podcasts. They don't watch YouTube. And if you can't fix most of your life problems by watching YouTube, I don't know what, you know, I mean, you fix almost anything, you know, in that regard.

Yeah.

Now, everybody, keep your listener and viewer questions coming. ryan@ryandohrn.com. Hey, Wes, what do you got going on that we should be sharing with folks? How should people be connecting with you? How are you helping sales teams? You got new books? What do you got going on? Tell me, tell me how you can be helping people today.

Yeah, a little bit of all the above. I am working on updating my book.

Good.

Sales Whisperer Way. It's— I can't believe it's so old. I'm getting old, man.

We're all getting older. Yeah. You know, that's, that's for sure. But are you— how are you primarily engaging with folks to help their sales organizations? What do you, what do you typically do? What's kind of your perfect gig?

You know, I might— a couple of things depending on the listeners, right? Sure. Individual producers. I've got my 12 Weeks to Peak. It's a free habit tracker to get organized.

Love that.

You know, and there's, there's an option there for, for small groups and even for individuals. I'm an efficiency freak. Um, and, and I do this with everybody, you know, regardless of, of their position and regardless of their, their industry. You gotta get these systems in place. And, and it's hard. It's so hard at first, you know? And I tell 'em, you know, it's gonna be messy. Um, but you'll never have to do this again. Uh, but stop going it alone. You know, the devil wants you alone. So surround yourself with good people and you'll figure it out.

Yep. He can be the most influential when you're, when you're, when you're on your own. The other thing is we are living in a world that's kind of messed up. There's a lot of good things happening, but there's a lot of messed up things happening too. And so, hey, I heard a stat that you might find kind of funny. You're 30% more likely to have a bad day if you start your day by watching the news. I believe it. I think it's more than that.

Well, Zig Ziglar, he said, if you don't, if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed.

Right. There you go. That's been true for 50 years. Yeah, that's exactly right. Hey, what's the website where people can most easily find you and get in touch with you? 12weekstopeak.com. Okay, perfect. That sounds good. All right, my friends, this is the Sales Whisperer, Wes Schaefer. So thrilled to have him on the show this month. And for those of you that are watching, regular watchers and listeners, you do know that I don't have guests on these shows. I just don't. And I only do when I have the opportunity to have people like Wes on board, people that I truly feel would bring some value to this experience. And so, Wes, I really appreciate it. Appreciate your sense of humor and appreciate your commitment to the salespeople that are out in the street today. So thanks, man, for being here.

Yeah, man, thanks for having me.

All right, friends, I hope that you enjoyed that session, that episode with Wes Schaefer. Man, he's great, right? And I'm really glad to have him on the show. And don't forget, friends, I'm also going to be on the Sales Whisperers podcast as well, and we'll be sure to put a link to that down in the description below. And let me tell you, friends, we get a little irreverent over there on Wes's show. So if you feel like you had some fun watching this podcast or listening to this podcast, friends, be sure to go over and check out his show and podcast as well. All right, that wraps it up for this week, friends. We sure appreciate all of you. All your love and support is so much appreciated. Appreciated. Love to come in 2026 and pump up your sales team. So reach out to me. I love to speak at national sales conferences. Friends, I don't care if you got 5 people on your team or 50 people on your team. We've got programs designed to motivate your team, get you pumped up so that you'll exceed your goals in 2026. All right, friends, we'll see you next time. If I can be helpful to you, reach out over at ryandohrn.com. Never forget, friends, if sales was easy, everybody'd be doing it, and they're not. You're not crazy, friends. We're not crazy. This is a great career. It'll feed your family for a lifetime.