3 CEO Lessons in Scaling Enterprise CX with HubSpot's CEO and first Chief Customer Officer

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to 3 Lessons in Scaling Enterprise CX. As you could see by that promo video, we are going to have a great conversation with Yamini Rangan who is chief customer officer of HubSpot. I'm your host, Ginger Conlon, Director of Thought leadership at Genesys. So glad you're all here and welcome Yamini.

Thank you so much, Ginger. It's a pleasure to connect with you again and I'm looking forward to this conversation. All this love Faster and I think this is going to be great. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely, absolutely. So glad you're here. I think let's just dive right into the first question which is tell us about your role. Tell us you're the first chief customer officer that HubSpot has had. That's an awesome opportunity. Tell us what you do on a day to day basis.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Just a step back. I think HubSpot is a CRM company and we really focus on helping a lot of small medium businesses grow better. As you just saw and a few years ago we really looked at our ability to shape the customer's growth. And you have the funnel where you start with marketing and leads and then you win customers versus what we think is the right way to do business, which is around the flywheel. Put the customer at the center and you do everything possible to attract those customers, to engage those customers and delight those customers. And if you do, the flywheel spins. So that's kind of the premise of how we think about helping customers grow and therefore we wanted to organize ourselves in that same way. So part of my role and the impetus for having a chief customer officer at HubSpot was to bring together marketing, sales, customer success and put all of these customer facing teams around the vision of serving our customers and delivering delightful experience. So my job is really to enable our teams to think about delightful experiences at scale and it's a fun job. Love it.

I love that. I think with the way that marketing, sales and customer success are, the lines are being blurred across those disciplines. Today. A role like yours is so important and it's so strategic and I just. When we met last time we talked a little bit about one of the things you said that I really, that I really loved was that making customer experience important to others is how you make your role more strategic. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yeah. Think about regular customer experience and how companies look at it in B2C world. This just happens naturally in business to consumers. You're meeting customers, you're interacting with Customers on a day to day basis, they maybe walk into your store, they walk into your shop and you understand their emotions in business, to businesses, that doesn't quite happen. And so what I think of in my role is how do I keep that customer and the customer's experience front and center to everyone within the organization. And that's what we have attempted to do. And it really comes down to how you set up the culture, how you enable the practices, and how you enable the disciplines of customer experience.

Absolutely. Well, I definitely want to dive into all of those areas. But first let's just take a look back at the past 15 months. As we all know, things have changed dramatically. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing in terms of how they've changed that impacts the customer experience?

Oh, absolutely, Ginger. I think the last 15 months we have seen some profound transformations in the way we work, in the way we live, in the way we think. And in fact, I think that the last 15 months is going to have just a huge impact in terms of human behavior. Right. Think about our personal lives, the way we do grocery shopping, the way we actually access healthcare, the way we watch movies. All of this has changed. And I look at my personal life, I'm not going back to go to a grocery store, to actually step into a store. So it's completely changed the behavior. The same thing. That same profound transformation has actually happened in businesses as well. There is no more marketing in an event, it's all digital marketing. There's no more outbound sales, it's all digital sales and there's no more customer experience that happens in multiple places. It's very digital. And so we've seen a kind of transformation and acceleration of customer experience being at the forefront of all of this. And our customers certainly think about this as digital first, not just being digital ready. Yeah.

That'S such an interesting point of digital first versus digital ready because people are definitely at different stages of maturity. So what does that look like long term for you? What do you think will continue to change in the future?

Well, I think as we think about it, let's actually step back before we think about what does it change in the future. You also have to think about why are we where we are right now. We've certainly seen digital first, we've certainly seen customer experience become really important. But I'd say that we were already prepping for it. And if I really stick a step back and go back to the beginning of the 20th century, I think we've kind of gone through four ages. Ginger, the first age, beginning of the 20th century, was age of manufacturing. Think about back then, like, you know, the core competency was designing, was building, was manufacturing something. And companies who were really good at that, you know, were the kings at the time, kings and queens at that time. Then came the age of distribution. And was not a surprise that the next thing was age of distribution because globalization happened and companies and countries gotten flattened and supply chains got very flat. And therefore the age of distribution brought in the core competency of dealing with your supply chain and being able to distribute. Then I would say in the 90s, we got to the age of information. And again, it's not a surprise that we got to the age of information because Internet just started and organizing, searching for content and being able to access content and deliver content, where the core competencies of the age and the winners had those core competencies. So the reason I kind of walk through that is right now we are in the age of the customer. And in fact, it's been happening for the last 10 years. And what we saw in the last 15 months just accelerated that age of customer. And why is that important? The shift that has fundamentally taken place in the last 10 years is that buyers have much more power than sellers. Buyers have much more access to information than sellers. And I think about the transformation that's happened like in 1997, I bought my first car. And Ginger, you can imagine what that was like to buy my first car. Back then, that was my first car. I had no idea how, you know, to buy a car, but I knew that most of my friends warned me that going into a car dealership is like pretty painful. So I did. I set aside a weekend, went to three different dealers, and didn't know what I was getting, but I kind of felt like I was getting scammed. And I walked out with a car which promptly in two years failed. So that was my first car buying experience. Come to how you buy cars right now, you as the buyer, you have access to all the information. You can look at makes, models, products, price, dealers. You can look at the ratings of all of those folks. And what does that do? When you walk into a dealership, you actually have way more information than who is at the dealership. And in fact, if you choose not to, you don't even need to go to a dealership. Carvana and companies will ship you a car, have you test drive it and send it back. That's the example of the transformation that has happened in the age of customer. And so where does this take us in the future. Companies that can actually master delivering that customer experience, they will win. That needs to become the core competencies. As you think about how you compete in your industry in the next 10 to 20 years.

Yeah. So let's dive a little bit more into that. In terms of what you were saying before and digital first and how that's accelerated so much. What do you see in terms of. The implications for the future of the customer experience?

That's a great question. Before we actually get to that, what is customer experience? Let's actually define customer experience. To me, customer experience is every interaction and the perception of that interaction that your customer has. It's not just customer support. It's not just one interaction. It's your website. It's the interaction your customer has with your product. It is the interaction that your customer has walking into a conference or actually going to a digital conference like this one, or with your support. So that is what customer experience actually means. And the implication is that as organizations, you got to think about the core competencies. How do you actually deliver that type of a customer experience that needs to be front and center in how you think about go to market and scaling. Go to market functions within the organization.

Yeah, I love the scaling part and I know we're going to talk a little bit about that as we go through this conversation. I love the fact that you're talking about how the customer experience is so broad because a lot of people get caught up in it being the customer service channel or the marketing channel in terms of like the touch points. But it's so integrated. And I think that comes back to why it's so important for your role, the way your role is set up and how strategic it is pulling all these pieces together. So, you know, talk a little bit more about the aspiration of delivering delightful customer experiences as the main part of your role and how that kind of gets out into your full organization.

Yeah. I mean, again, great question. Kind of what we spend days, weekends, nights thinking about. Right. As I said, our definition of customer experience is the broadest sense. It's not just customer support, it's not just sales. It's the broadest sense of every interaction your customer has with your company. And both from a product as well as a people perspective. And the word delight is actually joy, right? Delight. That your sense is joy. It's a smile that you get when you have that type of an interaction. A lot of times it is more so in the consumer area, not as much in the B2B space for HubSpot, our focus is really helping millions of customers grow. And the way we do that is, is by delivering these kinds of delightful customer experiences. The way we think about that is it's part culture as well as discipline and there is an art and a science to it and happy to get into it, but that's how we define it.

Yeah. You know, I've had my own interactions with HubSpot over the years. And so for example, I attended a HubSpot customer conference a few years back. And what really stood out to me to your point about the business to business customer experience in some ways being different from business to consumer and the opportunities that you have, it was such like a human interaction. Right. It's a customer, it's a business conference. But the layout was set up for people to really have fun and interact and learn from each other. And there were like fun things to do, there were sessions about personal growth that could support your business growth. It really struck me because so many conferences are, you know, here's some strategy stuff, here's a bunch of technology stuff and good luck. This was like you're a person and you need your strategy and your technology, but here's some stuff for you. Here's some stuff that's going to help you grow and help your business grow that we just, you know, we want to be generous and give you this extra information. And I really, I thought that was so important and valuable to the attendees.

I love, first of all, I love that you went to Inbound and I'm so glad that you had that experience. But you know, one of the reasons that we can do that is how we orient the company and you know, how we orient HubSpot. Certainly we start with solving for the customer. That's the big thing. But more importantly, that humanness that you talked about, it comes from setting and establishing some first principles. And for us, one of those first principles is actually about that human who is the customer. And the first principle is build careers, not software. We're the business of, you know, producing software. Right. But that's not what we care about. That's not what we orient the company. What we say is build careers, not just software. And when we do that, it orients our people to think about whose career should we care about. The marketeer, the salesperson, the person that comes into inbound and wants to have an experience of growth, that's the person that we care about. And when we orient the company that way, then every interaction, every customer experience, you know, really brings that human factor to It.

Yeah, I love that. You know, one of the things that you had mentioned is that, you know, for you, delight is having a human element behind every engagement. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Yeah. I mean, you know, think about the moments that you were delighted. What was the last time that you were actually delighted by any experience? Ginger?

Oh, you know, actually kind of recently, there's some local businesses here that really go out of their way to create a delightful experience. So, you know, just to, like, welcome you and make you feel comfortable and make you feel like some of the local restaurants make you feel like you're transported to somewhere else. So I'm lucky that I've had some really good experiences lately.

That's exactly right. So. So you know it. Right. And I'll recall a recent delightful experience for me personally during, you know, this pandemic. I actually ended up adopting two cats. And my kids wanted dogs. I didn't want to take care of the dogs, so we adopted cats, which I'm so happy now. The first thing that we did is, like, we ended up buying a whole bunch of food and I ordered it through Chewy, this company, but Chewy actually sends me this 20 pound bag. My cats are so finicky. After one week, they don't like it. So I'm calling them and I'm like, hey, I have a problem. I had this 20 pound bag which is barely used, and now my cats don't like it. And immediately the response was, don't worry about it. Donate that food, hopefully to some other friend that has cats, and we'll send you two other foods that your cat can try. I literally almost was so delighted that I was about to try because I'm like, I'm trying to do so many things. And this was a delight moment. What does it do now? I'm talking about Chewy and my experience. And two, you know, I donated the food to a friend that, you know, had cats, and it was helpful. That is what a delightful moment is. It's the humanness. It's the way you treat customers. And so you take that in a B2B setting and you take that from the perspective of a company that's trying to do that. We think about the human at the other end, especially in the last 15 months, during the pandemic. At the beginning of the pandemic, we knew that we had to treat our customers with empathy and with that humanness. So in about five days, we made a whole bunch of company defining changes. One of those changes was we created a Huge pool for customer relief. And we gave one principle to all of our frontline teams, which is use good judgment for that huge customer relief friend. Now, we could have come up with rules, policies, guidance to really help with the discount, but we actually gave one simple policy, which is use good judgment. We said, help customers that need help during pandemic and show them that you care and that you actually empathize with where they are. And the stories that we got from the field, the stories that we got from our customers, the stories that we heard from our frontline, were just incredibly moving. So that is the humanness behind a customer experience and delightful policy. And so one of the best learnings that I've had in the last 15 months has, especially in the area of customer experience, is like, treat people as humans. And you don't need to come up with policies, you don't need to come up with guidebooks and rules for how you engage with customers, but give solid first principles that your teams can go and execute.

I think that's so important because not only are you delivering a great customer experience, but you're creating a great employee experience as well, because you are showing a vote of confidence in your employees. Hopefully you've trained them. And then you say, okay, we think you're going to have good judgment, so go out and use it.

Exactly. You got it.

One of the things that you were talking about before about really taking care of your customers in terms of who is that person and what role they have is one of the other things that HubSpot is known for in that regard is all of the free training content. I've gone to marketing events, like local marketing events, and had someone say to someone else, oh, if you want to learn more about this, you should go. HubSpot has courses on their website, and I think that's hugely valuable. It's not just courses about how to use HubSpot materials, it's courses, again, like the conference, to help them grow their career and their business. And so you're supporting your customers in multiple ways.

Absolutely. That's the whole concept of how we got started. The concept of how we got started is that there was marketing. And you typically see marketing as a phone call interrupting your dinner, some email interrupting your train of thought or focused work. And we wanted to flip that and say, how do you add value before you actually ask for a business? How do you fundamentally provide value for the customers that you begin to serve? One of the first principles for that was the academy and the content and the training and the education we want to be in the business of building careers. And the best way to do that is by providing the educational content necessary and providing the inspiration of how to get there. And so what you're hitting is really again a first principle and a tenet for how HubSpot thinks about delivering great customer experiences.

So now speaking about customers again, you have achieved a milestone of 100,000 customers earlier this year. So we're here to talk about scaling cx. So that's a milestone. What is your approach to delivering that great customer experience that people can look at what that scaled with your growth?

Yeah, that's a phenomenal question. And I would say that the way we think about it is there is art and there is science to scaling customer experience. The art part is culture. It's how do you set this culture of customer centricity and customer in thinking, what are the values and what are the practices that you need to embed deeply within the organization so it begins to become part of the DNA of the company. That's the art part, the science part. That is the discipline, it's the rigor, it's the order of operations. And actually science part can be replicated from company to company to company. And there are parts of that discipline that we've really honed in and thought about in terms of getting to the scale. We can certainly get into both of those aspects.

Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about art first. Maybe you can share a little bit of examples of how you get that embedded into your organization.

One of the first things I'll say is that customer centricity is not an initiative, it's not an annual goal. You cannot think of this as like one year I'm going to become customer centric. It needs to be within the DNA of the company and how you change, just develop that being within an organization. So the culture and how you think about the values and practices are exceptionally important from a value perspective. We have one value that you will hear if you go to our company, if you go to a digital event or any kind of interaction with the company, which is solved for the customer. Sftc and that is the primary value that we define almost all of our customer orientation by and solve for the customer is something that you'll hear as an employee on day one, you will hear it day 10 in a meeting, you will hear day 100, you'll hear it in year 10 in companies. It doesn't quite go away. And so that's the value that we have now. Equally important are the practices that support the cultural values. I'll give you a few examples. One of the practices that we have is we have customers in every key meeting within the organization. So typically we'll have a quarterly company all hands meeting. It starts with having a customer interview or a customer panel. We have board meetings every quarter. It starts with having customers embedded so that our board of directors can hear directly from our customers. We have director plus meetings, and those meetings start with customers. And in fact, my favorite meeting of the month, and I know we live in a world full of meetings, is the customer first meeting that we have every single month. What we do, Ginger, is we bring a panel of customers typically around a difficult issue that they're facing. So this is not a think good, feel good meeting. It's actually a meeting where customers come and talk about a sharp edge that they're facing with HubSpot. And we all listen. And when I say we all listen. We get the top 40, 50 leaders within the organization, across product, across customers, across company, and they all listen to these customers. And then the next part of the meeting is about 45 minutes of debrief with data. So we're combining the quantitative with the qualitative. We combine the human emotional side with the right brain side. And we listen to this and we now come out of those meetings with actionable tasks of how we would improve the customer experience. That's a very tangible way in which you create a practice that supports the culture and the value around solving for the customer.

That's excellent. So many companies ask for input and then it just goes into a black hole.

That's exactly right. The worst thing about asking for feedback is that if you don't actually circle back and share what you have done with that feedback, then it loses complete value. Don't stop with asking feedback. Make sure that there is a feedback, loop around feedback and make sure that you actually go and have very specific action items and pass around that.

Yeah, yeah. Don Peppers and Martha Rogers, who wrote the One to one Future, they call that a learning relationship where you create a virtuous cycle of listening, learning, acting and keep going versus what they called the Goldfish principle, which is just circling around. And it's always something new. The same thing is just new every time because you never remember it.

I really like that Goldfish principle. I like that. I don't want that.

Exactly. Well, let's talk a little bit about the science now and the disciplines that make that up for HubSpot.

Yeah. So science is discipline, it's rigor, it's a set of systematic initiatives that you can put in place. And for us, the way we break down science of customer experience is fourfold. First is aligned teams. So when I say aligned teams and I'm going to go through the four and I'll talk about all four, it's aligned teams, it's aligned strategy, it's aligned systems and aligned incentives. So we start with aligned teams. We started this whole discussion talking about the flywheel orientation at HubSpot. You got to have the teams that are customer facing, marketing, sales, customer success support all of these teams oriented in the same direction. And so for us, the first step was making sure that we bring all of these teams together and orient them around the customer. Now, I'm not saying that every company needs to do this. You can actually create an organizing function, an organizing group, or a cadence around when these executives and leaders actually meet. That's totally fine. The second part of it is align strategy. One of the simplest tests that I have when I go into organizations is go to each of these customer facing functions and ask them what their goal is. When the goal turns out to be I'm going to grow leads for marketing, I'm going to close so many deals or I'm going to drive this metric, then we don't have the right strategy. The strategy does not include the word customer. Then we don't have the right strategy. And so for us, the align strategy started with defining a winning aspiration across all of these customer facing teams, which is driving delightful customer experiences at scale. The second part of that orientation and strategy is to make sure that you provide first principles around customer in not function out. What happens as companies grow and scale? You begin to fall into silos. You begin to fall into functional silos. That's not really going to help with the customer experience. And therefore one of the guiding principles you provide is being customer in. Think about it from the customer's perspective. So any strategy and any content that we actually review, we start with what does the customer experience based on the strategy. And so that orientation is important. The third is align systems. You can have the best intentions, you can have the best strategy, but if your systems do not provide the ability to adopt, adapt and align, then you've missed the picture. And so for us, providing a single view of customer and ensuring that different parts of the customer journey are mapped well from a system perspective is important. And then the last one I'd say is align incentives. This is probably the most important thing. It really comes down to how do you drive the right behaviors across all of the things that you're planning to accomplish and comes from incentives. The simplest example for us is NPS Net Promoter score. Now, almost every organization ginger that you talk to will have a net promoter score. But one of the things that we did, which I think works really well, is have the product organization carry the NPS goal. The Net promoter score. What does that do? First of all, product organization obsesses about it. They care so deeply about nps. Every week they send out an email about where the NPS is and what we're doing to improve it and where we need to continue to make tweaks. The second is that if it's not going the right direction, they're already on it. They're already looking at initiatives and improvements that they can make to the customer experience. And so not only the metric that you choose, but where you place that metric to align the incentives across teams is just exceptionally important. So those are the four disciplines and we pay a lot of attention in terms of how we scale with each of those disciplines.

I love that. And I'm so happy, I can't say how happy that you have aligned incentives in there because, you know, I've been covering. Previous to my role at Genesis, I was the editor in chief of several different industry publications and it was a very common topic to have that why can't sales and marketing get along Conversation. And the reason, one of the reasons because there's multiple. But one of the reasons was that there incentives were not aligned. And there are ways to do that without even though they have different goals and different kinds of goals. And so this is awesome. I love that.

Yeah. I'm so glad. Without incentives, like human behavior cannot be shaped. And it is about that and I'm so glad it resonates with you. Yeah.

So how do you to make sure that the NPS score aligns with the the product team? Do you ask the question in a specific way versus just would you recommend HubSpot to you, a colleague? Is there a different way that you frame it or.

So it starts with that question. NPS process is pretty simple. Are you a promoter, are you passive? Or you're a detractor and that's the highest level. Now we do break it down by each of the Personas that we serve. So we may have a specific question for the sales Persona that's leveraging HubSpot versus something else. But those get to be one level deeper. But the broadest level question for NPS remains the same. Are you going to be a promoter or Detractor or passive. And then we kind of figure out why. There's a lot of qualitative aspects of if you are passive, then what would make you a promoter? If you are a detractor, what would make you a passive? And that helps us define the areas where we can continue to improve. Right.

That's great. We've got art and we've got science. What's the trick for balancing them? Because they should work together, but sometimes they may not.

That is absolutely right. The way we think about it is to not just care about the output, but you care about the input. And what I mean by that is the balance is quite tenuous. Right. You can go too far on the rigor side or too far on the culture side. And you gotta make sure that each of the systems that you put in place scales. And that comes down to having the right customer in metrics. A lot of times, especially in go to market organizations like ours, you start looking at leads, you start looking at deals closed or customers won, and you start looking at number of support tickets. Those again are very much functional. And one of the things that I would encourage people to think about is how do you really pick customer in metrics? How many customers did you acquire this quarter? How are your customers using and activating with your software? How are they continuing to gain value? Do you see that value gain increase over a period of time? Really formulating a set of questions from a customer perspective and asking those questions of the teams will help you reach the right balance because then you can see where you are in the journey of providing value to customers and what you need to continue to tweak.

Excellent. Well, what I'd like to do now is just stop sharing for a moment and see what we've got going on in chat because I know we've got some questions for you. So one question we've got. Love the idea of pairing NPS with the product organization. Any other unconventional wisdom about the customer experience that you feel strongly about?

Plenty. I'm glad that you like that. Every organization I would talk to, I would Dr. Recommend that nps. The other one, I will tell you this is like from 20 years of being in go to market organizations and many of those 20 years I've actually gone in and sat in support calls. First of all, if you're an executive key player, spend time with frontlines, right? And in those support calls I'd sit there, listen or look at the chat. Most of these support teams, they have policy books that go into the hundreds of pages I Would say unconventional wisdom. Get rid of all of those. Get rid of all your policy books, the rules, all of that, and build it down into the simplest first principles that you can provide for your customer facing organization. For us, it's threefold. The first one is solve for the customer. That's the first principle. The second one is customer in versus function out. And the third principle is build careers, not just software. And honestly, you can get rid of all of the policies, the rules, the guidance that you can provide because that dehumanizes the customer on the other side. And that's my unconventional wisdom, is just put away all of those and come back to first principles. That's the way to scale from a customer experience perspective.

Yeah. And I love that all three of those are so customer centric from like from every different angle.

Yep.

So let's see what this is.

A little long.

So I'm going to read this next question. Let's see. How do you balance advocating for features that customers request with the bandwidth that your product team has?

Yeah, fantastic question. How do you balance? It really comes down to resources. And there's almost no organization that has unlimited resources that you can do every possible thing. I'd say two principles again. The first one is that you've got to have the product organization live and breathe what the customer faces. This is how we think about the customer first meeting. This is how we think about nps. It's the product organization's lifeblood in terms of serving the customers. And that helps. The second thing I'd say is really think about the higher order bets that you can make within your organization every year. You can't have the organization try to do thousands of things. Even though you may have thousands of people within your teams, they got to pick and you have to be clear about maybe the top five to seven bets that you're making across product across go to market across the company. And when you can articulate those higher order bets, they become the guardrails for the prioritization. So now you have the product organization listen to your customers, but they also can balance that with a set of higher order priorities for the entire organization. And that helps balance kind of outcomes and where they put their resources to play. Right?

Yeah. Makes so much sense. So I love this question, who should best drive this process? And I assume that she's talking about just balancing the art and science and making all these customer experience things happen. So obviously in your case it's you. But if someone doesn't have a company, doesn't have achievement Customer officer who owns the show.

You know, I will say I don't own the show. I was pretty lucky in finding an organization that cares about this deeply. And just as I started by saying that customer centricity is not an initiative, this whole strategy is not a one person task. And even if I come into this organization, the first thing that I do is, is to enroll as many of the key executives into this process as I possibly can. My job would be enrolling teams into the vision, not actually figuring out every single thing that I need to do from an art and a science and discipline perspective to do it. So if you're an executive, think about who you need to enroll in this customer centric mindset. Go and enroll them. I'd start the product. In my case, I was lucky. I have a product organization that deeply cares. Then think about the folks within the company. Whether it is your finance team that delivers certain things or your IT functions that deliver certain functions. Think about every one of those executives that need to be part of this journey and just go and enroll them within the journey. And then magic happens. When you have product and people all aligned around the same thing, then magic happens.

Absolutely. And then everyone owns the customer experience.

Absolutely. Your job is to make sure that it's not just your job to think about customer experience. I love that.

Well, I got another question that I want to throw at you. Any other misconceptions about scaling customer experience that you've come across?

I mean, a lot. Again, I go back to what is so natural in our consumer world that is not so natural in the business world. That is what I'm constantly thinking about. When you go into a store like Nordstrom and you get an exceptional customer experience, what does it take for business to offer something very similar? What does it take for the first experience of trying your free product to bring delight? You gotta obsess over it. And you gotta think about every one of those interactions. Like a product bug. Think about a product bug. When you uncover a product bug, you put a team, you go and fix it. It's the same thing with customer experience. If there is something that doesn't fit within the customer experience, treat that as a bug. Go figure out how you can deal with that and go and solve it and do things that are unique to your culture, to your company, to your people. There's always conventional wisdom, and then there is wisdom that works for your company. And you've got to have the judgment and the gut to be able to do things differently.

Definitely. Okay, so you and I are in an elevator. I have just gotten appointed Chief Customer Officer and I have to figure this thing out and scale it. In my company we've only got five floors. What is your piece of advice that you're going to give me in this elevator ride?

First of all, congratulations. You have landed the best job possible. You're just going to have incredible fun. And second, simplify, simplify to scale. Do not complicate, do not come up with rules. But think about three or four foundational principles that can simplify decision making and then we would get to our fifth floor and I will see you rise up to become an incredible Chief Customer Officer.

I love it. Because we are going to solve problems the customer every time.

Exactly. Sftc.

Well, Yami, thank you so much. This has been fantastic, so much great advice. Thank you everyone for joining us. Enjoy the rest of the conference and.

The rest of your day. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure and a delight talking to you Ginger. Thanks everybody for listening in and watching. Bye bye.