The Road to Building a 100 Year Company

Please welcome mamun hamid, general partner at kleiner perkins, caulfield and byers, and sanjay barry, CEO at netscope.

All right. Good afternoon, everyone. So nice to see you all. I can't actually see you all because the lights are shining in my eyes, but I'm so happy to have here a friend and colleague, Sanjay Barry. I've had the pleasure of knowing Sanjay for over five years, maybe even six years now, and got a chance to invest and work with Sanjay right out of the gate when he started Netscope back in 2012, and a few months ago went off his board. So now I get to see him after a few months and catch up on the business, but he won't tell me because I'm no longer on his board what his numbers are. But maybe you guys can ask him questions and maybe we'll get it out of him. But, yeah. Well, Sanjay, a pleasure to have you here. Great to be here. Maybe for the benefit of the audience, it'd be great for you to tell people, just in your own words, what netscope is and what it does.

Sure, absolutely. So, first, it's a pleasure, actually, to be with Mamun. He was my first board member and by far my best. But netscope, basically, we sell the enterprises my whole wallet. I don't need it, trust me. But we sell to enterprises, Fortune 5000 companies, and we focus on cybersecurity for their cloud applications. SaaS, Infrastructure Service, PaaS, working with organizations to let them leverage the cloud but do it securely. The biggest bottleneck nowadays to adoption of cloud in most enterprises is actually the chief security officer. And so we give him or her what they need to say yes to enabling the cloud. That's what we do. Cool.

So you left Juniper where you were running a pretty substantial part of the organization and business and revenues multiple hundreds of millions, if not over a billion, and decided to leave a pretty great job at a fairly young age and leave and start netscope. What was the motivation behind that?

Yeah, so the first thing is everybody's different in their life, what they want to do. For me, I love building. I love putting a stamp on the industry. I love working in a culture where there isn't bureaucracy or politics. It's open, it's collaborative. All of those things led me to do what I love, which is start netscope. I had started a company previously, and I'd learned a lot from it, good and bad. And I wanted to go build a legendary cyber security company. And to do that, I had to do that and start over with a blank whiteboard build a culture I want with the people I want with the product I want and the go to market that the market needed. So that's why I left. The only person I had to convince was my family. That was it. But I was dead set on doing it and extremely happy we did it. And the people that we've been able to bring on, I would think they would say the exact same thing.

Yeah. So maybe just talk about some of the early people that you brought on and how you chose your co founders and then also the first set of employees. Because just to give some context, netscope was started inside of our office at Social Capital and it very quickly went.

From Sanjay to we took his whole.

Office up to four Indian guys to 15 engineers. And there's more diversity in that first 15 from the four Indian guys. Actually there's Lebanon too.

Right.

So yeah, it was great. But yeah, we always used to joke, hey Sanjay, you gotta mix it up here a little bit because it very quickly it took over our whole office within four months. But can you talk about those first few, your co founders, the four of you, and then how those to the 15 very quickly that you went to?

Yeah, so one of the key things when you pick people in the beginning of your company, you're actually finding people who actually build a product. You're not looking for sales, you're not looking for marketing. And so the first thing is you're looking for great architects, engineers and so on. And the number one thing for everybody I hire is cultural fit. And cultural fit for us means you're no ego, no bullshit, you're an open, collaborative person. And that's my number one filter. So when I thought about who I would like as our co founders, that was my number one thing. Obviously they're going to be great at what they do. Domain wise. They're going to be great architects, they're going to be developed in the cyber world. But there's a lot of people who are great at that. But there's very few people who are great, as many companies would call them distinguished engineers or architects. Very few who are great and are humble. That is when they draw on a whiteboard. And then a lot of these folks will draw on a whiteboard, they'll turn around to a group and they'll say, ok, this is what we should do. Why don't you go do it? And I told them, when you turn around, there's a mirror and the mirror is you and you got to go do it. And it's very hard to find that combination of person who has had that experience, understands how to build great enterprise product, yet is humble. And so that's how I picked them. And when you think about picking them, you don't. It's very hard when you look for a co founder if you don't know them, if you haven't had experience in the trenches with them, how do you know what they're going to be like in the worst of times? And so I went to the three people that I knew fit that bill and they all came from varied backgrounds, varied places, but they also fit very well together. And so that's how I found them. They're here today. They're still sort of the product leaders of our company. Over time they change their roles. They're not managers, not leaders, they're individuals. But because of their cultural fit, as they grew they were savvy enough to realize that look, yeah, there needs to be people who manage us and are above us and so on. And so that's how I picked them.

And you mentioned that they're actually still with the company, all of them, and they're doing a variety of roles and you've hired managers, VPs. And how's that transition gone?

You know, it's when you look at folks who fit that cultural mold, I mean, obviously the big thing is like when we started netscope, our goal was build an iconic independent cyber company. And that's very important, every word. You can build your company and you can build it in your mind saying, hey, I'm gonna go sell my company. We were very clear we're gonna build a company for the long term because this is our place to put a stamp on the industry and not you shouldn't start a company in that mode all the time. But for me that's what I wanted to do and that's what those people wanted to do. And if you have that mindset that you want to build an iconic long term company, you're going to do what's right for the company. And what's right for the company may mean that maybe you were the head of engineering, now you're no longer, maybe you were the head of sales and now you're ahead of a region of sales. And so I think people who are self aware enough to realize that if they, their heart and their goal is to build and be part of an iconic company, they got to do what is right and what is necessary. And in many cases that means bringing on others right who are right at a different scale and at a different part of Your company's journey. And so all of them are there and they love what they're doing and they're still part of the heart and soul of the company. Yeah.

So just as you're talking about picking your co founders and, and then bringing on executives, you must also have a philosophy as it comes to picking your investors, the people that work alongside with you. How do you. Because I imagine a lot of the folks in the audience are either founders, they're inside of startups and think of, or they're going to start a company and they think about people that they pick to work with who fund them. How do you go about doing that?

Yeah. So you know, one of the most important quote, hires you make is obviously your investor or, or your board member. And just like you would hire maybe your hundredth, your four hundredth or your thousandth person, you want to obviously have the frame of what your culture, your company is. And so the number one thing for us when I chose our board member was they had to be of that ilk and open, collaborative, transparent person. But also they can't be a pontificator. People come in a room and say, you know, when I was doing x 20 years ago, I used to do it this way is the worst thing. It's a different world, different time. And you gotta let your entrepreneurs be who they are and build their company. And so for us and for myself, it was cultural fit. But people who understood that their role at a board was to help the company, it wasn't to pontificate and instruct and tell. And so people who understand that concept of building a company let the entrepreneurs and the founders have their space, yet provide wise advice as they build a company. That's the type of people we picked. And to be frank, we met a lot of folks who were of the other side. And I look back and I don't think I'd be, you know, our company would be where we were if we had made the wrong decision. And so we've kept our board very small. It's very open, the board meeting. By the time we have a board meeting, everybody knows roughly what's going on. We're texting beforehand, using Slack, you know, all the rest. And so that's sort of how we picked our board. And it was one of the most important things we did.

Cool. And along the same lines, the title of this talk is this chat is the road to building a 100 year company. And every company that's been around for 100 years, not that many actually, but any durable Company has a set of specific things that it does, especially as it pertains to culture. And I know that there's a very specific netscope culture. Can you just expound on that? Just talk more about that. What are some of the specific things that you do and you've been doing from the early days?

Yeah, so like if you look at our industry, we're in the enterprise industry. We're sort of a B2B company. We sell to the Fortune 5000 and so on. Many of the folks in our space, they were built 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And frankly their cultures are very political and bureaucratic. And you got 20 people to make a decision and so on. And I tell you that story because when you think about competitive advantage, it's not just about the product and the go to market that you put together, but it is about your culture. And I'm a big believer that's the number one asset that we have and the number one thing that will eventually get us to where we want to be. And what that means is that when I say there is no BS or politics or bureaucracy, we mean it. Like we put in every slide deck, we talk about in every hire we make, if we see it. And as you grow, we're closing in on 500 people. And as you grow internationally, you're going to see it sometimes and you've got to stamp it out and be very deterministic and make sure your leaders do. And so we're an open, collaborative company. We are very open. Sometimes we share too much. I mean, in a good way.

But can I interject for a second? The only company where I've ever seen the board meeting slides are actually all hand slides. And then you add a few more slides to the all hand slides. So the company's seen everything before, actually, the board's seen it. That's how transparent you are.

Yeah, it is, yeah. Because you know, the company should know. Right. How we're doing in each area, just like the board would want to know. And so that's sort of the culture. And I think when you build your company internationally, you know, open up Europe and apac, all of these places, as you get further from maybe where you're epicenter, is that communication can break down. And if you don't have that culture of being open and transparent and disseminating information and talking and anybody in the company can talk to anyone, you can slack anybody you can, it works really well. I mean, I'll get somebody who hired one month into the job working in Australia he or she's an se and they'll slack me and say, hey, did you know X? I mean, that kind of openness, it actually espouses great information for which you could never otherwise know. And so I think the culture feeds itself and it makes it a much better company.

So specific things that you do, culture wise.

Yeah. So I mean, a couple things we do. First of all, it's everything from how your office looks. Nobody has an office. Not allowed, no doors. I sit amidst everybody. And so one, we don't have that. We won't, we're not going to have any offices ever. And there's obviously, there's conference rooms and so on where people can do what they need to do from a board meeting perspective. Any board member, people ask me, hey, can I go talk to our board member? You can talk to anybody you want. You can tell them anything you want. And so it's just a concept that, look, we're not here to tell you who to talk to, how to talk to them. We feel comfortable and self aware enough in good and the bad of the company that you should be able to talk to anybody. And we, whether it's physical layout, whether it's how we use tools to communicate, whether it's how we use our all hands as our board deck, whether it's, we make people aware. When we make mistakes and we do the wrong thing, we're like, look, we made a mistake and this is why. And we learn from it. We don't hide it. We don't cheerlead all the time. We actually talk about losses. We talk about what we did wrong. And so those are the things I think that truly mean. Openness. It's not openness when it's convenient or when it's positive. It's openness when it's not too.

Yeah. And when you're, you're down in Los Altos, so you've got competition from Google and Facebook and all the other big public companies. When you're recruiting, does that message come through?

It does. I mean, if you look at. Well, first of all, in what we do is obviously domain. We're an enterprise company. And it just happens that a lot of our targets for folks to employ from an engineering perspective are actually in the South Bay. And so you end up. Yes, those are the companies that often take thousands of people, but those companies are very large. They're actually fairly bureaucratic and they reorg every six to nine months. And there's a lot of people who don't want that and they want to work to a place where they can put their legacy, they can see what they do and they can see it impact the company and the industry. And they want to be part of building something, maybe not expanding it once you're 10, 20, 30, 40,000 people. And so when you think about competing for talent. Yes. You're not going to compete against. In the old days, well, five years ago you weren't going to compete against comp with some of the equity and so on. Now it's actually a lot better when you look at some of those companies and what they can offer. But you got to compete on heart. Like, what do they want to do? Do they want to be a part of something that they can be from the ground up, that they can come every day and go, you know what? I'm actually going to see what I do, I'm going to see it out there and it's not going to be filtered through 10 layers and not going to get reorged every six months. And so I think it's just very different. And some people like that, some don't.

Yeah. And most companies are now international. They have multiple offices and you have a pretty significant office now in India, where it's not just outsourcing of like it is real engineers. And how do you maintain the culture across. And it's how many people is it over there?

So we're about 500 people and about 150 over there.

And how does it translate over?

Yeah. So what tools do you use to communicate? What do you. Yeah, so common tools we use for communication. We try not to use as much email. We use things like Slack Project based, obviously, from a development point of view, which is most of what that team is, obviously we're using things like GitHub, Elastian and so on as tools for development, wikis and beyond. So it works well. I think that the single different thing for us when we looked at we only have two development offices, Los Altos and Bangalore, was that we didn't go there for cost. We went there because there were specific talent that we knew we could get in a specific domain. And some of them actually used to be people I knew and they were very senior people. And so we went there because of talent. And I'm a big believer in when you're building your company, you don't go somewhere for cost. You go somewhere where there's specific talent you want. You can build a heart of that company and you need to hire somebody to run, be the MD and one of the best folks to Run that operation. Ran it for me over at my previous companies as well. And without that person, we wouldn't be able to get to where we are. Same thing in Europe. We built our London office and we built it around a core set of people, mostly sales and marketing. And then we've been growing that as our hub for Europe. And so I think it's finding the right early people, finding people who truly believe in what you want, that espouse the culture and then actually you empower them to go build that region and do it right.

So a lot of companies these days adopt these bottoms up selling motions or adoption happens and then you go sell. Once there's use, you're mostly the opposite, which is your top down traditional large enterprise sale. Fortune 5000. Can you talk about how you went about building your sales and your go to market?

Yes. So you're right, this is a model that is more applicable if you're selling to the enterprise and you're selling to organizations that are more,000 to 5,000 employees and above. Right. Not necessarily for below that. Our target was start high, get great brands in each vertical and then move down. And so the first thing in everything we do is we say we're building a long term iconic company. And so we're going to do things not for the next quarter, which by the way, many of our board members may ask you to do. And you have to say no. And you have to pick the right board members who understand what you're doing and be aligned with it. And so for us, we said, look, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to throw all our business through a channel. We're going to hire great salespeople who are hunters, channel friendly and high activity. They're not the people who work at Cisco, any of those companies. Now if they work there, they're pretty much disqualified from being the type of people that we want because they're not going to be hunters, they're going to be farmers. So find hunters. Channel friendly, high activity. There are CEOs. We just have our sales kickoff going on now and we say, look, the best reps are CEOs of their region. They are people who share and collaborate and they're high activity and channel friendly. And channel friendly is very important because the people we compete against are like 10, 20,000 people, public companies. And we need to make ourselves look bigger than we are and so hire those people. Build a channel. By building a channel, you look 10 times bigger than you are in the first year. You Feed your channel. They don't do anything. They basically take 10 or 15 points off every deal. But after the first year they bring you business. And now Instead of having 150 or 200 salespeople, you have 2,000 salespeople. And if you think long term about that and you, when you do it right, that's what you'll end up with. If you think short term, you're going to say, I'm not giving up 10, 15, 20 points in my first second year. And you won't actually build a channel because they'll feel like, look, you're not channel friendly. And so that's how we built our team. It is meat eating sales folks great at selling to the enterprise. They sell to the C level and the VP Director level. And then we have systems engineers. We pair with them to win the hearts and minds of the people who actually use the product and operate it. And the biggest thing that I tell people in sales is it isn't about winning the person who operates it. It isn't about winning the mid level director or the ciso. It's about winning them all. Because any part of that pyramid, from the CIO or CISO down to the person who implements your product, any of them can sideswipe you. There is so much politics in enterprise sales and anybody who's done it knows. And you can't just have a product, you have to have a go to market engine that takes all parts of that pyramid and works them pretty hard.

So you mentioned this to me earlier, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to share this, but you said you have 25% of the Fortune 100.

In four.

Years of selling or so.

Yeah, we just finished our fourth year.

So it seems pretty daunting to be able to get just one Fortune 100 company, right? So you have to build up to that. And how did you build up to be able to sell to even the first Fortune 100 company and just given how complex the sale is, how much is required out of you? Because I think for many of us just getting one big sale, that's a seven figure deal would be a big accomplishment. I'm sure success begets success after a certain point, but you have to get there before you have the right to.

Do the next thing you do. And you know, if you obviously everybody has a different competitive landscape and ours is, you know, public big companies, you know, worth 10, 20 billion. And you know, how do you beat them? And the reality is like you gotta have better product. And I know it Sounds simple. But like, ultimately your goal when you're starting is get an at bat. Like more than half the goal is to get an at bat. I want them to actually look at our product. If they look at our product, our product needs to be so much better that they're going to go, wait a minute, I'm going to use these folks. And so the first thing you have to do is really believe and invest in R and D. We invest an inordinate amount in R and D. And I know some people like that, some.

Likes that burn rate of his, but.

You have to, because if you're targeting that set of customers, once you get in a bat, you better be that much better that you're going to win and they're going to see your product and go, you know what? I really love these guys, I love these folks. And then they're going to ask you, well, wait a minute, is this company going to be around? I could make my bet. And it's a bet. Some of them will bet their career on this thing. They'll bet their career and if it's not going to go the right way, they're going to get damaged in their career. And so then they're going to want stability. They're going to look at your company and go, wait a minute, who's your investors? How much capital do you have? And we did our first round with Mamoon and we took 5.5 million, right? And we got our first cup of Fortune 100 through that. And the reality is what we did at that point when they said, wow, you only have five and a half million and so on when you're competing against these public companies is, we won their hearts. We showed them that, look, this is our vision. In many cases, you talk about the firm and the person that invests in their track record and that builds you up. And you need to find those people who are in that point that they're going to say, you know what? Yes, I'm not somebody who's just going to buy what is safe, what everybody else buys. And you get your first one or two. They become your evangelists and you use them to get the to many others. But it's hard work. I mean, enterprise sales is 9 to 12 months. It's not go to a website and buy anything. It is get in at bat, do a poc, go through procurement, grind that out with procurement, people who beat you down and tell you you're too small and. And you have to just go through all of that. But you will Go through it all and if you have a good product, you'll make it through. And once you make it through, you have references that you can use everywhere.

Yeah. I think one thing that may not be appreciated is in 2012, when we funded your company, there were probably one or two other competitors, and then a year later there were probably seven or eight competitors. And at last count, I think you may be the only standalone company left. Everything else has been acquired for small amounts, some larger, and again, to go build this standalone, durable company that lasts many decades. How did you. Is that a. There's a massive consolidation that happened along the way, right?

Yep.

And you decided not to play and be acquired, which again, speaks to your desire to keep the company standalone. Can you just talk about the competitive nature of the industry and what happened over the last few years?

Yeah. So when you think about building your company, there's no right or wrong answer. Obviously, like, getting acquired is perfectly fine. Right. For folks, it's just, what do you want to do in your heart? And in our heart, we were very clear since the beginning that we want to build an independent, iconic security company. And that's our goal. We say it since the beginning, we say it now, and some people self select not to come because, wait, I don't want to do that. I want to be here for two years and flip, that's not for. This is not the company for that. And so for us, we're very clear that's what we want to do. So when everybody came calling, we said, look, thank you, but no, we're not interested, not even interested in talking. The last company in our space was acquired for close to 800 million. And we said, look, we're not even interested in talking. And for us it's also like, what do you want to do? I have a good family, I have good friends and a nice OK house and all around. I'm not in it for that. I'm in it because I want to put a stamp on this industry and so did the people who joined in the beginning. And so we want to be true to that and build our company. And it's obviously not easy and it never will be, but if that's what you want to do, you got to have conviction and that conviction will pound you through everything else. And so I think it's pretty well known in the industry that that's who we are. And one of the side effects of saying that publicly and believing in it and actually having it is there's a lot of people, partners, who actually like that who will say, wait a minute, I don't want to partner with that big company because maybe they're competitive. And so people actually gravitate to you as well. And so you can use it actually as an advantage. A lot of people think if you're small and you're competing against 20,000 people and you're 5, 600 people, maybe you're at a disadvantage, but you're not. You can actually turn it around in every way, from partnerships to field sales. I tell every CIO or CISO I meet, we're agile, 500, 600 people. We have a fortune 125% of them. We partner with you. We don't need to sell to everybody. When we sell to you, we're going to partner with you. You're not going to get that from those other companies. You're just going to be another notch on their wall. And so turning it around as you grow is very important.

So you've used the words building an iconic company, iconic security company, a few times now. And it's also the title of this chat. You just double click into that. What does that really mean?

Yeah. So if you look at our. And what the industry we're going after, and everybody is going after different industries and different buyers, but for what we do, if you look at the cybersecurity market, obviously it's a rare market that transforms itself every few years. And there's new transformational companies that come up maybe every five, 10 years. And you can look at it from multiple lenses. You can look at it from, well, what are those companies valued at? They're valued at between 10 to 20 billion. You can look at it from what's the impact they have on the market? What's their adoption? Okay, they're adopted by 50, 60, 70% of the Fortune 500. Their average spend is this. They view them as a strategic vendor. Those are all things that we think about as iconic. But what we also think about is when somebody hears our name, when a customer talks about us, when our people are working at our company, they actually think of the company as an amazing place that they want to come and work that still is not bureaucratic, political or so on, where it still has the notion of innovation moving quickly, being very agile. And so I think it's a mix of what iconic means to us is achieving a certain goal, which is metric in what you're worth, frankly, financially, and then maintaining the culture that we have and then having our customers look at our brand as iconic. So that's what it means.

Yeah, I'd ask you what your attrition rates are, but that's probably not a fair question.

Yeah. You mean for customers?

No, for employees and customers, I guess.

Yeah. So, you know, it's funny you mentioned that in every region, like when I. One of the things I did at Juniper Prize ran, there were overseas sites and it used to be that people would say, man, 15% attrition, that's amazing. I'd go, what? 15% attrition is amazing. But in certain geographies, it actually is the norm. And so for us, you will always have attrition, but for us, it's been very low. Right. Low single digits for us. And so we're very happy about that.

It's employee attrition.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. And so really happy about that. Now, as you scale, I think you alluded to before, there's like, you know, when I hired my first sales lead, one of the things I told the person, I said, hey, in two years you won't be my head of sales. And the person said, are you trying to, like, close me? Because that's not a good way to close me. But it's sort of reality. Right. As you grow your company, in every function, you're going to have different people for different stages. And the key is those people either need to be self aware enough when they join to realize that, or you will move on. Right?

Yeah. Maybe talk about something that's not netscope and some of the things you're excited about, just in general, in the broad landscape of technology that I know in your copious spare time, you think a lot about it, but what else excites you about what's going on in the world?

Yeah. One of the amazing things that everybody talks about is this notion of there's a ton of data in this world and everybody's gathering data. If you're an enterprise, it's actually the opposite. You have too much data. You're like, I don't even know what to do with this. I have all this data. I don't have people to do anything with it. I can't process it, It's a flood. And I don't know what's good and what's bad and so on. So having this amount of data, while maybe useful for Facebook and Google and maybe not useful for us in that context, is definitely not useful in many cases for an enterprise, because they don't have. If you're an enterprise, and I'm talking about enterprise What I see interesting, they don't have the amount of people that those type of organizations have. And so what I find really interesting is people are making that amount of big data, small data, consumable data, taking that data and in an automated way, making it easily consumable for most of us, which are people who just can't pour through it. And so some of that is a mix of people who are using algorithms some call machine learning or AI, but who are using those algorithms to actually contextualize and take that data and make it small data that is actually actionable. And that's very, very interesting in the enterprise because that's the number one problem they have, is not enough resources. There's a massive hiring shortage. You can't, you know, every average company has so many open requisitions and they can't find people and they never will find people. And so that technology that can automate and make that amount of data, small data is very interesting, not only in the enterprise world, but in the consumer world.

Yeah, I don't know how much time we have, but I have a couple more questions. So you're a technology company, hardcore technology company, you have a few hundred engineers, they do all kinds of different things. Can you just touch on some of the coolest things that netscope does as a technology company?

Yeah. So if you look at one of the advantages that we espouse in our company is that we have the benefit of being born five years ago. And I know you may say, well, why is that a benefit? Well, with technology evolving, if you were born 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you wouldn't have access to some of the technology and stacks that you do now. Right. And so if you look at most organizations in engineering, and we're a cloud, so our product is built in the cloud throughout the world. It's also built on premise. They didn't have access to back end technology that was high speed, no SQL analytics that could process a large amount of data. They built it using your traditional Oracle or whatever database and then one day realized they're spending too much money and tried to get rid of it. They wouldn't build their product to abstract from hardware. They wouldn't use things like containerization and Kubernetes to make DevOps actually real. They still have that model of development, QA solution, test release. This is our industry and security network. They still have like two to six month release cycles, sometimes a year. And this notion of blending what the SaaS world already knows, like what a box and a slack and all these folks built, you look at Facebook, even their enterprise product, they release every hour. That world with the world of networks and enterprise security, which is still stuck in the old model, taking those concepts and those technologies and those stacks and applying it to an enterprise context. Security is actually pretty transformational because now you can actually be agile. You can make your developers be extracted from the nuances of your back end or your infrastructure and so on, and you can actually deliver a true cloud dev model. And so for us, that's the tact we've taken. And none of our competitors, which are dinosaurs, right? 10 years old, 20. And so they didn't have the advantage of being born now to be able to do that. And so for us, that's a great competitive advantage.

So just pick one cool technology that.

You guys have built that we use.

You mean use or actually built internally?

Yeah. So one of the things that we actually built. So when you think about us, we do gather a massive amount of data about everything that an enterprise is doing for the purpose of finding cybersecurity incidents. One of the great things that we've been able to do and build is machine learning algorithms to pinpoint data theft. So exfiltration of data, whether you're working for the company, whether you're external to the company, you all read in the press about the latest company losing all of your data, right? Ultimately, a lot of what we do is protect that data. And so our algorithms to be able to detect, find people who are attempting to siphon off data, exfiltrate it, sell it, use it, take it to your competitor is one of our great IPs. Cool.

I don't think we have Q and A here, so I think I've questioned you enough for the. So I don't see a timer here, so I'm just going to give you some time back.

Great.

Is that okay?

Yeah, great. Cool. Awesome. Thanks, Moon.

Thanks, Sanjay.

Yeah, thank you.