The Salesforce MBA: What We Learned with FinancialForce, Twilio, StitchFix

Hi.

Is it going to announce me? Maybe it isn't. I'm Leila Seca. How's it going? I'm going to announce myself. I am the executive vice president of the App Exchange at Salesforce and I have the awesome, awesome task today of interviewing three of the most amazing people I've ever worked with. I'm going to let you them introduce themselves, but I'll give you the highlight. Todd Nielsen, Kathy Polinski, George Hu, they all worked at Salesforce. They all did amazing things. They've all moved on and done new things and we're here to talk about that. But first introduce yourself. Say how long you worked at Salesforce and say what you're doing now.

Hi, I'm Todd Nielsen. I was in Salesforce for three years and I ran Heroku and the platform. I've recently started in January this year where I'm President and CEO of FinancialForce.

Woo.

Hi, I'm Kathy Polinski. I worked at Salesforce for seven years and started out leading development teams for the platform. Then I went to lead engineering for emerging business, which was work.com and then for the last two years I was leading search and really building out our new search platform. Left about four months ago and I'm now the CTO of Stitch Fix.

George.

George who I was at Salesforce for 13 years. I started started as an intern in 2001 and had a fantastic ride there. Did a lot of different things from products, marketing, platform, applications and most recently the last three years. I was there from 2011 to 2014, I was the chief operating officer and since then I left, started a company, sold it and am looking forward to what's next.

So we wanted to do. Jason asked us to do this because they did a PayPal panel like this and we thought we'd do something similar with Salesforce. So I wanted to start out just by asking you guys a question, like Salesforce has a strong culture. What stood out to you or stands out to you about the culture and how have you taken something about that with you to the next thing you've done? Let's start with you, Todd.

So I think the incredible energy and commitment to get something done there is just an effort of we're going to be successful and that raw energy is powerful sometimes. It wasn't always even the most focused I refer to it, sometimes it was random acts of execution, but they were going to work the hardest to make that happen. And so tapping that energy and that drive and that fire and bringing it to Financialforce is something I'm working on right now.

Totally.

Kathy, what about you?

For me, it was the relentless focus on customers. So Salesforce is the customer success platform and focusing. I think that there was a great saying that no company will do business with you unless they trust you. And that's something I say regularly. It doesn't matter what business you're in. It's just so true for an industry. And that's something I take with me.

What about you, George?

I think a lot of the secret sauce of Salesforce was really the incredible attention and energy put behind alignment and transparency. And I remember when I first when Todd joined, he was. We had this process called the V2MOM process, which we use to prioritize everything in the company. And not only does Salesforce have a kind of this rigorous or almost religious focus on prioritization, every person in the company's priorities, their goals, their objectives, is shared across the company. Even the management team's core V2 mom is actually shared with the entire company. Every employee can see it. So there's not like a secret version for the management team. And that focus and that alignment allowed, I think, the company to successfully scale. When I joined Salesforce, 150 employees. And when I left it was about 16,000. And that process of prioritization was consistent all the way through. And I think Todd had seen a lot of companies, Microsoft and was actually shocked at kind of how effective that was at our size.

Yeah, no, it's incredible. And the other thing about v2mom process is if you've been at Salesforce a while, you become very good at drawing, you know, drawing priorities and trading things off. And when you were a new person joining, I was like, what is this language I don't understand? And it really took me a few years to appreciate how important it is for providing the transparency and the alignment, you know, against a large, large organization.

I mean, you guys read my mind. My next question is about the V2 mom, which is our planning document at Salesforce. And it's sort of how we run the company. Nicely done. But have you taken any parts of that? Like we. I agree. Like, we are a very transparent company. I just got out of our kickoff. It's going on right now, and we just told the whole company the plan from Mark's mouth all the way down. So, you know, that is a very powerful tool. Do you guys. Are you using any. Maybe not the exact framework, but are you using parts of that and what you're doing now? And if so, how.

Yeah, so I'm planning on Rolling it out within financial force. And it's a different process to an organization that's not familiar with it. It's going to take a while to get them to understand the importance of vision and values and how to roll it all out. But it's something I plan on adopting for sure.

Awesome. What about you, Kathy? It's Stitch Fit. It's a consumer company, so it's sort of different.

So Stitch Fix is a personalized styling platform to connect customers using the art and science of data science and human stylists to find clothes for people. So very different business model. But I used the VTMOM for my first 90 days and I drafted my own little plan of how I wanted that to work. And then the other thing that really resonated with me is just the methods. And during this kickoff, I remember Mark going up there and saying, what's more important? Analytics or IoT? What's more important? Platform or service? Cloud. And as many of you are customers, all of these things are important and we have to do well for all of them. But when you're in an engineering team, you really need to be able to make these, these trade off decisions when you're looking at projects that impact lots of the same teams. And so I'm seeing that as Stitch Fix is growing and this is hyper growth mode, when we were small, it was really easy to know what to work on. And if you only have two or five engineers on something, you can't do that much. But now that we have a lot of new initiatives, we launched our men's line and we're launching plus this month. It's really difficult unless you are very specific about the things that you're doing and the things you're not doing and what's important.

Right. Mark always has this thing. He says that if everything's important, nothing's important. I think he actually coined it with George. I think George wrote every V2 mom for the first 16 years that we were doing them. So that's pretty interesting. George, what about you? I mean, you did write a lot of Mark's V2 mom. So talk about that process. Like how do you write down a strategic document at the CEO level of such a big company and then have it reverberate down in a smart way?

Well, you know, I think that, you know, the process by which we did it I thought was quite interesting. So as a management team, especially early on in the company's history, the way we did it was that the management team would get together in a room and we always started the exercise the same way. It's actually quite illuminating if you try it, because I do this as kind of a basic management practice. We'd have everyone in the room, the management team, and be there, sit down and have a piece of paper or your laptop or your phone or whatever. We'd say, okay, we want you to write down. Now each write down what's the single most important thing that the company has to do right now to be successful. Number one. Okay, then number two, number three. And then you sit there and you actually compare your answers, and those become. When you synthesize that, it becomes the values of the company. Those three ideas, when you aggregate them. And it's really amazing every time you do that exercise, you think you've been working with these people for months or years on the same projects, you think you're aligned, and suddenly you realize, oh, my gosh, we actually are thinking totally different things. And anytime we've been. I found myself misaligned. I've come back to that process. I remember one year, Dreamforce, I did a walkthrough, and it just seemed off. Everything just seemed off. The things were in the wrong place, parties seemed off. And I went back to the. I was like, okay, I want you to all write down the most important thing for Dreamforce this year. And number two, and number three. And what was interesting to me was that no one on the marketing team, when they wrote it down, had, you know, sales, closing more deals as a top priority. They were focused on positioning and press coverage and customer excitement and education. But actually, we'd forgotten that we were there to close, like, you know, a billion dollars in deals. Kind of important, you know, if you're. If you. Especially if you're a public company with revenue goals. So that. That process, both at a micro and a macro level, I've used it, actually. What's interesting is, since I've left, you know, as I think about my own future, I actually wrote a personal v2 mom of the things I like. You know, because a lot of times when you're thinking about your, you know, you're moving so fast in your own life, you don't take the time to think about what really matters to me, what do I really want? And then it's just very easy to get. You know, someone calls you, says, I got this question. Great opportunity. I got this great opportunity. And it's hard to synthesize unless you have clarity of what you want. So I've actually taken that core practice, and whether you use that or Not I think having taking time to clarify, prioritize and get alignment is just so critical. And I think just an underutilized thing in almost every company.

I've seen one other comment on this is the other side benefit you get is it lets you have an honest and transparent conversation with your organization on where the priorities are. And a common pitfall that a lot of tech companies make is they tell everybody, oh, you're super important or you're, oh, I love you most and you're great. And then when they don't get the budget they need or they don't get the resources, they feel gypped or disappointed. And a lot of managers don't have the ability to communicate clearly what's going on. Well, the v2 mom process makes it very clear, hey, trust is our number one value. We're going to invest on that. And if you're not in the trust space and you're complaining about your budget, over here in Product X, you at least understand the context of the company and where it's going to put its priorities.

Totally. I mean, I'm much like George is my mentor, so I'm much like George, and I have a personal V2 mom too. I wanted to switch to sort of a different topic for a second. So technology is thumping crazy busy industry talent, right? I think we all agree the most important part of any company is the people inside of it. Those are the people that actually make all the things happen. So, you know, at Salesforce, we have an amazing HR team, aging HR leader. We recruit amazing people. Look, I mean, amazing people. So now you're off, you know, doing new things. How do you think about. How do you think about building your teams and what things from Salesforce, whether it be recruiting or interviewing or just sort of the process with which we hired and did stuff that maybe influenced how you're building or thinking about your teams.

So one thing that we. So I started or I joined Salesforce on Heroku. And Heroku was sort of this little anomaly in SOMA that was sort of like, we're not sure what to do with it, so you take care of it. And the Heroku employees, the average age was 27. And so it wasn't quite in the Salesforce mode. And so I learned a lot as far as what their approach were. And one of the unique things they did with recruiting is they created this concept of we're not going to hire you until you complete a starter project. And so we would literally have an engineer come and work with other engineers over a Course of two or three days on their own dime to build a project and test and say, okay, is that the kind of code we want on the team? And this whole idea of starter projects and really assessing the talents and keeping your bar at the level you want to be is super, super important. And it's something that I really valued at the Salesforce.

Yeah, that's cool. Kathy, what about you? I mean, you're building a giant engineering team in a growing company. How are you? And engineers are hard talent to find, as we all know. How are you thinking about it?

I think some of the. I would say some of the capabilities or characteristics of people from Salesforce are relentlessly customer focused, very execution and delivery focus, and also partnership focus. People who can collaborate across the organization and then, you know, across management. The thing that I think really resonated with me is managers who really care about their people. And you see that directly from Mark and the store stories that he has. And it filters all throughout the organization. And I think that's kind of what attracted me to the culture at Stitch Fix as well, that we have a motto, kind, bright and goal oriented. And I think that some of the same capabilities and characteristics I see there as well at Salesforce, and those are things that we really try to hire for, want people who are really focused on. On goals and delivery, but very focused on customers and working collaboratively across the organization.

That's awesome. And George is very modest. He actually left Salesforce, started a startup and sold it to Twitter, which he doesn't talk about. But you built a team there and you ran. You were the COO of Salesforce for many years. You were my boss for I don't even know how many. A lot. How did you think about approaching a team when you left Salesforce and sort of moved into that new environment?

Well, you know, when you're in a larger company. So when I left Salesforce, 16,000 people. Right. You start to build support staff. Right. Teams. Like you have a recruiting partner and actually one of my great recruiting partners, actually, who's currently the head of the EVP of HR people at Salesforce. I think somewhere out there now, Cindy Robbins was.

She's here.

Somewhere out there. She was like my first recruiting partner. Fantastic. I had some great partners there. But, you know, one thing I think is just a core idea is that you have to own your own hiring. I mean, you have to spend a lot of personal time sourcing. You can't rely on other people to do it for you. I mean, they will help you. But I think you have to own it. And, you know, I think having that skill from Salesforce, you know, served me well back in startup land. Because, you know, for those of you who are out there who are in startups, I'm sure you don't have this issue. You're like, you're doing all your most of your own recruiting, but as you scale, you start to build support team, and having to own that, I think is critical. The second thing I would say is that, you know, when I think about the hiring, we all have hiring misses, you know, things we wish we could take back. And, you know, for me, the number one lesson I learned at Salesforce was do not hire for. Because of time pressure. You know, do not hire because you have to fill a need. And your gut tells you this person is like, you know, when you're starting to sell yourself about why this person is good enough to do the job, and if you have that feeling, you have to stop. Because there's nothing that's worse than basically hiring the wrong person, then basically spending six months to a year sometimes to clean it up. It's not good for them. It's not good for you. And being patient, you know, aggressive, but also patient. And, you know, when it's right. There's nothing more exciting than when you bring someone on your team that you know is the right fit. And you just know it's gonna be a home run. It's great for the team. Everyone feels it. And, you know, when I think, you know, a lot of people ask me, you know, how do I move ahead in my career? How am I judged? And, you know, one of the things I tell them is like, the most basic way I judged people. At Salesforce, there's always like the secret room where you're like, the vice president promotion meeting. And I was like, what happens in the meeting? How do you like what's going on? And I say, you know, for me, it's always very simple. Like, you know, we look at the person and the first thing we do is look at their team and say, you know, has this person built like a players below them? And it's one of the basic things I would always. It sounds like a simple thing, but when I do a quarterly organizational review or like a QBR business review, and I do it, I'd have them pull out their org chart and I'd say to the executive, okay, here's the org chart. Let's point to each of the people below and like, okay, is this an A player, a B player, or A C player. Just go through the list. Seems like a very basic thing. And you're hoping, you're expecting they're going to say a, A, A, you know, and there's like a, B, b, C, and, you know, like, what is. You know, what's going on? It's actually very telling. They'd be like, oh, yeah, I guess I have to do something about it. So understanding that dynamic, I think is something that people, for whatever reason, they don't. They don't focus on it as much as to try to get the results. But ultimately, it's the quality of the team that I think sets people apart for being able to take on more and more responsibility in a company.

Totally. Anything to add, Todd? Nope. All right. So you sort of touched on something I wanted to chat about, too, George. You were talking about it in the frame of making a hiring mistake, which we've all done and we've all.

I made one. I think.

That was not a hiring mistake. So speaking of mistakes, we all make them.

Do you?

We learn from them. But, like, what's a mistake you made at Salesforce that helped you change the path of your career or sort of altered your. Maybe not even that, or just changed you a bit, Made you better, made you worse. Whatever you want to share, Todd, I'm looking at you. You don't want to go first.

I don't want to go first.

I'll go first.

I'll tell you when I made mistake at Salesforce. Once I got overly aggressive about trying to release too much code into our internal instance of Salesforce. I was doing something and I slowed the server way down. And I thought I was going to die because I thought the system was going to go down. And I learned right there that I should never, ever set release schedules for engineering. I should count on engineers to do that. So there's my mistake.

Anyone else similar is that on one of my early projects, I was so focused on getting something out the door fast that I wasn't paying attention and kind of letting some of the product managers focus on what we were building. And then we kind of missed the market. We kind of missed, like, when we released it. The adoption was not very good. And really it was an early lesson of, like, hey, I actually have to not just worry about, like, how we're building it, but what we're building and making sure that we're building the right solution for the customers.

Yeah.

I think my response to that will be a little bit more abstract.

There you go. That's fine.

And I'LL say that one of the things I've learned in every place I've been is that problems don't get better on their own. And as much as you would like to ignore technical debt because you want to focus on sales or ignore, you know, this personnel issue or whatever, that you just have to, you know, bite the bullet and do the right thing. And at the end it's always better than you think it is. When you're facing the problem, you're like, I'll never survive this. This is terrible. But if you can actually say, well, we're going to fix this problem, be it technical debt or this personnel issue or this sales issue or whatever the problem is, and address it head on and be proactive, you're going to feel a billion times better and your company will be better off down the road. There's many companies I've worked at where they didn't do that and it sort of was a lingering pain around their neck for a long time.

Totally. George, anything to add?

He doesn't make mistakes.

I made a lot of mistakes. I don't know if I'll focus a particular mistake. I will say this, which is that there's this phrase that we sometimes use. We call them psychoses. And Mark would often talk about having these psychoses around self limiting thoughts or beliefs. One of them is around talent actually. So when you're rising up as an executive in the company or young executive, you have this idea of the type of the level of person that would be willing to come work for you, right? You have a mental block of yourself. You're like, oh, I think I could attract this level of person, but this level of person would never come work for me. And one of the things that when I was having people around me help me break through those things I think was super helpful. I'll never forget the first time I was just joined Salesforce a year or two in, I was a manager level. And you know, I remember I was passing someone in the hall and they said to me, oh, you know, and they said, they called me an executive actually. And that was a psychosis I had that I was not like I was a manager level. I think I was an executive in the company. And maybe I was, maybe I wasn't. But when this person called me an executive, suddenly my self image, my self belief changed. I was like, oh yeah, I'm an. The way you carry yourself, the kind of decisions you make interesting enough can be different. Just when you look at the world differently. And I think that plays out in a lot of business decisions too. Right. You think about how your products are structured, or you go to market, you get a psychosis around, oh, well, of course we're gonna have, like, 20 products, because we have these 20 product teams, and we branded them all and we marketed them all. And then you realize, oh, actually, the customers don't really care about these 17. They don't care about these three. And just reorganizing your mind over and over again and looking at yourself objectively and stuff. Where am I mentally blocked? Because I have a belief that is limiting me is something that's hard to do. And that's why you need mentors and people who can look outside you and tell you what you've done wrong. And a lot of my mistakes, frankly, just come from not executing to the capability that I really could do because I just blocked myself.

They wrote a journal. They wrote an article about this, about me, because I was very blocked, too. And you unblocked me. And then I sort of. And it was a little hard to hear, maybe, but it was the best advice anyone ever gave me in my life. Right. Changed my whole career. Okay, so there are a lot of really successful people that have come out of Salesforce. You three, so many others, it's hard to count.

Why?

What is it about Salesforce that sort of churns out these people that go on to crush it and do all these amazing things beyond. What do you guys think? We sort of talked about it, but is there something, Something other little secret, saucy thing that you think really breeds this type of human?

So I think some of the things I talked about is it's really people who are focused on results, who are focusing on customers, but are just nice people. And I started saying this that Mark has a very generous soul. So there have been times in his career where something has happened with an employee at Salesforce. And pretty much every executive at the company knows of some person in the company has had a tragedy or a struggle, and he's personally helped that person. And the thing about that is it creates this culture within the company that other people do it too. So if you see someone in your team at a very smaller scale where you know that you could do something to help them, people go out of their way to do it. And I think that that really sets the tone for who we are and really inspires a lot of people to go on and do great things elsewhere, whether it's in their company or in the world at large.

Yeah. I think it's also Part of it, when you look at when Salesforce started, it was early days of the cloud, so you had to be a disruptor and believe in fights. And then when you look at how our industry has progressed the last number of years, disruption is ripe. And since software as a service is becoming the standard paradigm, if you're at Salesforce, you've sort of learned from the mothership what software as a service is and you can be a disruptor and you can really influence and make an impact on the world. And a lot of folks just say, hey, I want to try to get my own Salesforce and do my own thing.

I'm gonna give kind of a weird answer. So, you know, like little like guns, germs and steel something kind of thing, but it's not, you know. Yes, Salesforce had smart people and a great business model and everything. But in a weird way, I attribute a lot of it interesting enough to the location of the company that, you know, Salesforce was really early, you know, the first company I think that really found San Francisco built like a huge tech. Like one of the first that built a huge tech business in San Francisco. And I remember when I joined Salesforce Back in 01, it wasn't like a ton of options if you wanted to be in San Francisco. And I think kind of free stage where people just wanted to live in cities and work in San Francisco and you're in these great cities versus maybe in the suburbs or whatever. And so I think Salesforce had a head start on just getting vacuum up some of the best talent of people that wanted to be in San Francisco. And if you look at those people, they've gone on to do great things and it just gave the company a huge talent advantage. In the early days. I don't think we realized it at the time, but then over time I think it really played out. And of course now every company has a major operation in San Francisco, so it's a little bit less of an advantage. But certainly for the first seven to 10 years of the company, I think it was kind of an untold hidden advantage in terms of talent.

Okay, I want you to tell the audience your favorite story from Salesforce.

Come on. Really?

This is so easy.

There's so many. Go ahead.

So when we were talking backstage, you were mentioning this of like, what are the stories that you always tell your teams or whatnot? And Maya actually is an anti story of these things where I think about Salesforce a lot. I was there for seven years and kind of my go to response when I'M seeing a problem with scale and growth is like, how did we do this at Salesforce or at Salesforce, we used to do it this way. One of the early stories that I had was there was a panel and we were giving advice to new hires, and someone said that to be really successful here, you have to check your past behind and not say, this is how we did it at Oracle or BEA or Microsoft or any of these other companies. But because Salesforce is a disruptor, we're building a brand new business model and a brand new technology model. And I don't care how these other companies did it in the past. We want to know, how should we do it for Salesforce? And so that's been the story that's in the back of my head every day of like, I'm in a company that's a disruptor and doing something completely different. And maybe it doesn't really matter how Salesforce did it. I should really think about what makes sense for stitch fix and. And really come up with solutions there. And so that's, you know, just was a really great piece of advice that I tried to hold every day.

Awesome.

So I guess my favorite story is probably my Heroku experience. You know, when I started, the Heroku team was sort of this wild bunch of crazies in Soma. And so all of them hated Salesforce and everybody at Salesforce hated them. And I was the broker trying to say, I'm okay. And so I would start off every meeting by saying, I'm sorry. And it didn't matter who I was talking to. It was like, I'm sorry to Salesforce people. I'm sorry that we were entitled and we treated you badly. And then to the Heroku folks, I'd say, I'm sorry. Salesforce feels like they bought you because they did. And so then I would sort of bridge the gap and. And it was a lot of work to kind of bridge these two different groups. And I was finally able to do it by having a meeting with them and saying, you guys, I realize you're frustrated, but it's okay to have a rich uncle. Let's not be the entitled rotten nephew. Let's be the favorite one. Let's be the one he wants to give the keys to the car to and says, this is great. And so over the course of nine months or year, I was able to get him to understand, hey, there is value and there is benefits and to synergize them with the mothership. And I left in June, but I actually feel really Proud about that work of integration and getting it back into Salesforce and getting that team to feel that now they're a part of the company and can make a difference.

And I think that what you did there helped us with lots of acquisitions. I mean, you deserve a lot of credit for sort of helping us through that a little bit. Thinking about that.

Acquisitions are hard. Yeah.

Yeah.

What's your favorite story that I worked for you, George?

It's really hard. I don't have one favorite story. You know, I guess I'll just not answer your question and talk about something else.

You've been doing that a lot.

I'm good at that, I think. So, you know, it's a little bit answering your question. But, you know, a lot of times when I fly around the world, right, as the coo, I would always get the same question, no matter what office I went to. And it wasn't. It didn't matter, like, whether it was in Paris or Tokyo or Munich or, you know, New York. They always ask, you know, Salesforce is growing so fast. How do we, like, preserve the culture of the company? And these are a lot of times it's interesting because a lot of these people from people that have been hired in the last six months, and they thought now they got the culture, and they wanted to make sure it got preserved. And, you know, it's interesting because Salesforce is. Is one of the few companies, I think, out there that doesn't try to, at least when I was there, didn't try to document its culture. Like, it wasn't like one document that said, oh, here's all the things that we stand for as a culture. And so I got to thinking about that, and I thought a lot, and I realized the culture is really embodied in the stories that you tell. And Kathy alluded to some of the great stories of taking care of employees that were in need. We had an executive who I think daughter got into a huge car accident or something, and the company immediately jumped in and flew the best, just dove right in, stories like that. But when I'd fly around the world, a lot of the stories I would tell were intended at cultural detox. And what I mean by that is that we'd hire these people from bigger companies, and that's kind of the way that our industry works. Right. You typically look for people that have done it before, and people in bigger companies want somewhat more entrepreneurial experience. So when you're at Salesforce, you're getting people, a lot of people from Oracle and SAP and Microsoft and VM or whatever the company is. And the larger your organization is, the more people generally don't get rewarded for basically speaking up. And I remember I once flew to. I was in Paris and I was talking to our French marketing manager, and I said to him, you know, your lead numbers, your lead conversion rates just look, like, terrible, like, what's happened? And he goes, well, you know, right now all of our telesales is in Ireland, in Dublin, and all these people are calling these French customers. And when the French customers see the phone numbers show up, they're actually Irish extensions. And they don't look like they're calling from, you know, they speak French, but they don't look like they're calling from France. So it looks kind of like a scam or not someone they trust. I was like, well, how hard can it be in the modern age to basically, you know, get phone numbers from, you know, local phone numbers? I mean, it just can't be that hard. And I was like, well, how long have you known about this issue? He was like, oh, it's only been, like, nine months. But I've got a request into it, and they tell me they're going to get to it at some point. And I said, you know, it's crazy. Like, why did you not, like, you have a relationship with me? Like, you know, you've been to headquarters, we know each other. Like, why don't you just let me know and, like, we can get this fixed. He goes, oh, you're the CEO of the company. I don't want to bother, you know, but that's all code for I'm afraid if I speak up that something really bad is going to happen to me. And, you know, nothing bad happened to him. Like, we fixed the problem in, like, three days. Got the. Got the phone numbers changed. And, you know, I go around telling stories like that because I, you know, I always just go around saying, you have to speak up. You have to communicate. Because the truth of the matter is most executives, big companies, have no idea what's happening. We all don't know anything. No one tells us the truth. Everyone lies to us. Your director, Ports will tell you everything's perfect, and I've got my crap together, and you have to break that. And that is really hard to do. And so you have to go around just telling story after story after story. Because I remember we bought a company in some other place. I won't say where it is. We bought a company in another part of the country. And I remember once I went there to visit after the acquisition. And I noticed that they had these photos of all these employee bobbleheads. And I was like, this is great. Yeah, we make a custom bobblehead. Our company traditions make a custom bobblehead for every employee on their one year anniversary. This is great. But there's only like 50 bobbleheads here. There's like 150 employees of the company. What happened? Oh, after you bought us, they said there wasn't any budget to do bobbleheads, so we stopped it. And I was like, well, how much does a bobblehead cost? Like $20. And I went to the guy, I was like, oh, yeah, we cut the integration budget. So things like bobbleheads are a waste of money. We had to cut it. What the heck. So you have to go around and just tell story after story to break people's perception of the culture, because otherwise it's filtered through 16 levels.

I totally agree.

Some of the things I remember, I think that.

So unfortunately, we have to go. But I do want to say this. When it comes to storytelling, on George's point, the story of salesforce is long and wide. And, you know, the nascents of it was part of how this came to be. You know, Jason was one of our partners, and then this all exploded. But I will say the story of salesforce is richer because the three of you are in it. And the nice thing I like about my company because I still work there, is I still feel like you work there, even though you're far away. So, you know, I hope you guys got a little bit of a sense of what it's like to be inside salesforce. From our salesforce mafia here, cocktails are on. Ladies and gentlemen, all over this building. Go wild.

Woo.

Thank you.