PP105: Combining the Ancient Wisdom of Ayurvedic and Functional Medicine with Sarah Kruse and Sachin Patel

Hey Satchin, and welcome to the Perfect Practice Podcast. It's my mission to use this podcast as a platform to help holistic, heart centered practitioners transform the world. I think we can all agree that the world needs more of what we have to offer now than ever before. And I want to take all the information and all the knowledge and experience that I've gained over the years and leverage the community and the contacts and the mentors that I've had over the years and and share some of the most valuable nuggets that I've picked up over those years. I also want to bring special guests on so that they can share their valuable wisdom and knowledge with you as well. Each episode is going to be packed with valuable nuggets of information to help you grow both personally and professionally, all while moving you towards more impact and more freedom. I'm excited that you're here. I'm excited that you want to grow and learn. So let's jump right in. Hello my friends and welcome to Perfect Practice. Today I have with me Sarah Cruz. Sarah and I are going to be talking about her journey, her practice. We're going to be talking about Ayurvedic medicine, which is something that I'm really fascinated about. I don't have any formal training in Ayurveda, but it's something that has been a passion of mine. So I've dipped my toes in the water. However, today Sarah is going to take us a little bit deeper and we're going to learn about how she got into Ayurvedic medicine, how she applies it in her practice, how she's helping transform the lives of her clients, and without further ado, welcome Sarah. Thanks for being here today.

Thank you so much, Satchin. I'm really happy to be here and share with everybody more about Ayurveda and what Ayurveda has to teach all of us.

Awesome. Well, why don't you tell me first how you got into Ayurvedic medicine?

When I was about 19 years old, I was really fascinated by all forms of natural healing and I was trying to figure out which one would be a good fit for me. One fine day I was at an Indian restaurant and saw a flyer on the wall for an introduction to Ayurveda by an Ayurvedic doctor in Seattle. I went to it and all the light bulbs went off. Everything that I love about healing is included in Ayurveda, herbalism and nutrition, cleansing, meditation, yoga. So many facets of what I personally do and enjoy in my life. Are included in this ancient body of wisdom. So I contacted the teacher after the class and asked if we could talk further. And I asked him, do I need to move to India? How do I continue going forward with my interest? Do I go to India for five years and study or do I stay in the States? And he directed me at, at that time to Dr. Vasant Ladd at the Ayurvedic Institute in Albuquerque, New Mexico, sight unseen. A year later, I drove from Seattle down to Albuquerque, enrolled in the Ayurvedic Institute, and spent a few years there with Dr. Ladd and my classmates. When I look back, it really is one of my most cherished times in my life, that period of study and opening to Ayurveda and also setting a foundation not only for my education, but for. So I'm so thankful at this point in my life, in my mid-40s, to be experiencing very good health. I would consider, and I give all the thanks to Ayurveda for setting me up with my daily routine and what to do about nutrition and herbs and my family. So I just have so much thanks for Dr. Ladd and for the ancient tradition of Ayurveda.

Well, you know, it's fascinating to hear that, because when I went to India a few years ago, I'm like, you know what? I kind of got into my head a little bit and I said, I'm going to introduce functional medicine to my Indian family, and everyone I go there is going to have to hear about functional medicine. But then I learned about Ayurvedic medicine. I'm like, these technologies have been well known for millennia, and actually they're very similar to. Similar in some ways to the principles of functional and lifestyle medicine. However, without some of the advanced technologies that we currently use, the ancients knew this wisdom from a very long time ago. I left being even more fascinated with Ayurvedic medicine than functional medicine. And it was just really, really remarkable how it works and the amazing insights that you can get about somebody. For those of us that don't know the definition, I know Ayurveda has a specific definition. Do you mind sharing what that is?

Yeah. So the word Ayurveda means the science of life and longevity. Ayur Ayuas means life, and veda means wisdom. So the science or wisdom of how to live a healthy life.

That's awesome. What are some of the key differences that you found to contrast? Let's contrast first Western medicine and Ayurvedic medicine. And then let's contrast functional Medicine, and it's kind of classical definition to Ayurvedic medicine.

The thing about Ayurveda that sets it apart from not all traditions, but many traditions is that it looks at each individual as an absolute unique person based on the five elements. We have different body types or constitutions. Once we know our constitution, we can go about making dietary and lifestyle choices that will support that. Ayurveda is more about looking at the whole unique individual in the context of nature and what's happening around in our environment. And we're more interested in looking at that rather than diagnosing and treating symptoms. We're looking at maybe the root cause of healing, which I know is a similarity in functional medicine. The root cause focus, I find a lot of times in allopathic medicine, there's more focus on the symptoms and giving a diagnosis, giving medications to pacify the symptoms. More and more, I'm finding more medical doctors looking at the whole picture or opening up to functional medicine or Ayurveda or integrative medicine, because it's when we dig deeper into the person's story and the root cause of illness, that's when the magic happens. That's what I've seen. Are some of the differences awesome.

I know that when we don't have all this advanced technology and lab testing and things like that, it requires a different type of assessment and evaluation of the client, Perhaps even a deep, even deeper investigation. Maybe we can talk about that. What does that process look like when somebody comes to see you? What can they expect?

Yeah, the initial intake is about an hour and a half. And there's a process called darshana, which is seeing the person really observing them, how they're sitting, how they're presenting, every line on the face, the way they speak, everything they're presenting tells us something. There's that intake process. Then, of course, all the questions that they've answered in their form give me a lot of information. We start with that, but we also include different assessment measures, including tongue analysis. I have all my clients stick out the tongue, and even on zoom, it's quite effective. I just have people come closer to the camera and I can see their tongue, which is a reflection of their inner workings, their organs, and tells me a lot, actually. Then also we do fingernail analysis, looking at lines or spots or textures on the fingernails. The one that we rely on most in physical clinical setting is called nadi pariksha, which is feeling the pulse. We actually feel the radial artery of the wrist and listen deeply to the rhythm. The Sensation, the pressure. By feeling the pulse, we can assess that constitution that I mentioned earlier, whether there's more vata, pitta or kapha, which organs are more active, where there's perhaps depletion, or even their state of mind. My teacher, Dr. Ladd, teaches there are seven layers of the pulse. It takes a lot of slow, quiet listening to perceive that. That's the only disadvantage about doing consultations by zoom. I can't quite do that. When I'm able to sit with the person in person, I definitely will do that or have them even feel their own pulse and tell me what they're feeling. That can be pretty informative.

It's almost like there's different ways of assessing what's going on, putting it all together, really, paying close attention to, as you said, facial features, looking at the tongue, looking at the person's constitution in terms of how they physically present, and then paying attention to their pulse. What other tools do you use? Have you added to the traditional Ayurvedic principles and assessment tools in your practice?

My teacher, Dr. Ladd, he really encourages us toward integration. He has so much high regard and he lives, walks, breathes Ayurveda, and he loves it when we integrate other aspects of either modern medicine or any healing into our practice that gives the client value. One thing that I use quite a bit is yoga, which is the sister science of Ayurveda. So it makes sense that they would be used together. I like to use essential oils. And while there are some essential oils classically in Ayurveda, the full repertoire of what we have available now wasn't available then or wasn't used in India at that time. So I like to recommend essential oils and then just your modern supplements, vitamins, minerals, different herbs that are available here in North America. Really. Ayurveda looks at everything potentially as medicine or poison, depending on who you are. My teacher often says, you know, someone says, Dr. Ladd, is coffee good or bad? He'll say, well, for whom? For whom are you talking about? It can be a great uplifter for a kapha constitution person, or it can be overstimulating. For about this, we need to look at who each person is in regards to recommending anything.

Yeah. And that, you know, in some ways maybe not as thorough in its evaluation is kind of the functional medicine model. Right. Is that one person's nutrition could be something that another person doesn't truly benefit from or could have a negative effect or the opposite effect of what we expect on that. So it's great to have a way of assessing people so that we're not making generalizations that could be detrimental to their health and allows you to make better assessment of what they actually need. So something like coffee. So maybe why don't we do this? So I am a pita. That's my dominant dosha. And what I'd love to have you describe a little bit to people is what are the doshas? And maybe from there I'm going to take up some of your time and maybe see if there's any advice or guidance that you can give me based on your assessment of my constitution. Maybe we can do a. A water down. Of course, I don't want to pretend like this is the full diagnostic process, but perhaps we can use me as an example to highlight some of the ways that Ayurveda would approach, let's say, my health. For example, let's start with the doshas. What are those?

Absolutely. We talk about these three doshas, but they have their roots in the five elements. In the Vedic tradition, the five elements we look at are ether or space element, air, fire, water and earth. Then from those five great elements, it breaks down into three categories of these powerful energies called doshas. The first dosha is vata, made up of ether and air. People of a vata constitution are more affected by things that are dry, light, cold and rough. They're sensitive to cold wind, for example, or if they go on eating too much dry food, they can get dry skin or constipation. Or if they're eating too much raw food, that rough quality can affect their digestion. Dry, light, cold, rough, also mobile. Oftentimes, vata individuals are on the go. They're busy thinkers, they think a lot, they're doers. They like to go out and walk and jog. They talk, they travel, they're very active individuals. Typically, in general, to soothe a vata person, we recommend to stay warm and to stay well hydrated, well oiled. That means taking healthy fats internally, oiling the skin, and to prioritize rest or not overdoing downtime.

For the vata person, you're describing my wife Deepa. She's a vata and she likes it hot. If you walk into her office, the heater is always on. She doesn't like cold drafts. She could be better at hydrating, so I'm going to make that recommendation to her. She complains that her skin is dry. So we've got a water softening system and that's made a big difference. But oils, as you mentioned, are there specific Oils that you like on the skin versus internally ingested.

Yeah. So traditional oils, we love an ayurveda. So for vata, the skin is dry and there's coolness in the body. We like to recommend raw sesame seed oil. So not the toasted kind that you cook with, but the raw kind. And then to go ahead and warm your bottle of oil and apply the warm oil to your whole body before taking a shower or bath. So the hot water from the shower pushes the oils deeper into the skin and it's very settling for the whole nervous system and also just rejuvenating for the body. So it's one of my most beloved practices. I give almost all of my vata clients is self abhyanga. It's called self oiling.

Okay, I'm going to make that recommendation. Thank you.

Sure.

So let's move on to the next dosha.

You mentioned that you're more pitta and that's really nice for you and deepa to have slightly different constitutions. Then there's some inherent balance. These qualities you bring each other. So it's very harmonizing in relationship. The pitta dosha is comprised of fire and water elements. When exacerbated or out of balance, pitta can be hot and. And sharp and light and sometimes oily. When I say hot, sensitive to heat, sensitive to hot. Spicy food. Sometimes pittas love spicy food, but it can cause aggravation in their intestines. Oftentimes we'll suggest to have more cooling, anti inflammatory, soothing types of foods for pitta. Pittas have a voracious appetite for food and for learning and for life. They're very passionate and intense in their nature. Pitta, they're sensitive to light. Too much sunlight directly in the eyes or on the skin can be overstimulating for them. Then also the oily quality, too much oily fried food. Sometimes when I recommend the oil massage, it's the pittas that say that sounds strange because they already have enough oil in their body. The idea of adding more doesn't always sound appealing. For pittas. They tend to be the doers. They tend to be the ones who go three steps beyond the edge when given the chance. They're very good at leadership and reaching their goals. But sometimes they can reach burnout because they don't know when to stop. So the mantra that I share with my pitta clients is to balance effort with surrender. To absolutely move toward the goal. But then at some point back off and take rest. Just lay down for 10 minutes, get outside, get some fresh Air. Everything will happen in this way. So this is kind of the approach for pitta is to. To listen to when it's time to take a break.

Yeah, that's great advice. And I can definitely attest to many of those things. I know when I eat something spicy, I immediately start sweating. And my wife is like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, I don't know. Well, I knew. I know, but it just seems so strange because my family's eating the same food and they're totally fine with it. But my. My head starts sweating because it's probably too much heat for me, right?

Yes.

And, you know, I generally don't apply lotion to my skin or any oils to my skin because naturally it. I feel like I don't need it. And that explains that as well. One thing I also heard about pitas is because they release so much heat that they tend to lose their hair. Is there any truth to that?

It tends to be true. So the people who lose their hair at some point in life are almost always pitt the constitution. Not always, but. But quite. And Even my teacher, Dr. Ladd, he says, yeah, my hair is one fine day they just re liberated. What to do? It's that upward rising heat. We call it the udana value. Like the udana energy pushes the heat upward. That's why things like pranayama and gentle exercise are important to circulate the energy so that it moves in a circular way and doesn't always move upward.

Yeah. And one of the things that I find about myself is, and maybe I need to rebalance pita attributes because I'm a very calm, relaxed guy until somebody triggers me. And once I get triggered, then it just. I just eat that person alive in. In however you want to interpret that. But it just sets me off. But then I'm able to just pull back and not care at the same time. So I'd love to hear what are some things that pitas can do to balance themselves out.

Yeah. I think that that quick response, that sharp quality is there for pitta sometimes that sharp shows up as sharp intellect, but also sharp tongue and kind of quick to get triggered. And so I feel like in a lot of our spiritual training, even beyond Ayurveda, we learn to take that pause, that pause before reacting like that. Pause, take a few breaths, and then react to that situation or to that person. I find in my own life that's been really helpful. And then, for example, if there's an interaction that really stirred the pot and one is feeling Aggravated. One of the best things for pittas to do, hands down, is just stop what they're doing and go outside and get into nature. Go walk barefoot on the grass. It's cooling and grounding and soothing. Or go into the forest and sit by a tree. Or in summertime, take a swim in a cooling body of water. So getting out in nature where there's that cool air and taking some space from the situation.

Okay, how about things like. I heard cucumber can be good. Mint teas or even I find myself almost craving, like, peppermint oil. And I don't know, I do it because it's kind of very refreshing, but maybe unconsciously I'm doing it because it's helping me cool down. Is there anything there that you can speak to?

Yeah, you're so right about that, Sachin. Things that are cooling, like that peppermint, adding mint leaves to your water or having peppermint oil diffusing in the room is soothing. Cucumber. Adding that to your water. Or like, there's the raita in Indian cuisine, the cucumber raita with yogurt is very soothing and cooling. Another kind of remedy I love for pitta is rose in all forms. Whether it's rose water or a drop of pure rose essential oil on the wrist. Rose jam, any form of rose is very quickly cooling and calming. For men who have higher pitta. In terms of oils, sandalwood is another great choice for calming and cooling the body as well as the mind.

Oh, that's so. That's so amazing because I actually use a sandalwood essential oil as my cologne, if you will. And I just. Just gravitate to it so much. And so that makes sense. And so I'll incorporate more of that into my. Into my routine. I love the smell of sandalwood, and the essential oil is just amazing. So the other one I like is vetiver. I don't know if there's anything that you can speak to about that in relationship to pitta specifically, but that's another oil that I tend to gravitate towards.

Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned vetiver. It's one of my favorite oils. And so there's the Western version, the vetiver, and then the Indian version is called kus k h u s. And vetiver tends to be brown in color, and kus oil is more of a dark green. And so it's a grass that grows along the bank of a river. They extract this oil, and it's one of the most cooling and grounding Oils of all oils. I oftentimes lay to mix it with other scents. So vetiver and sandalwood, vetiver and rose, Vetiver and jasmine is really nice. So for some of the scents that we enjoy, but they're kind of light and airy. The vetiver is considered a deep note. It's very heavy and grounding so it can balance out some of those lighter scents.

All right. And my, my wife loves, she's got a beautiful rose oil that she puts on her wrists. So I'm going to start borrowing it from her now.

Oh, amazing. Well, there's this skin cream that I make, an ayurvedic face cream that has rose and vetiver in it combined. So I'll have to send you a jar because you like those scents.

Okay, sign me up. Thank you, I appreciate that. So the third one is kapha. Let's talk about that.

Yeah. And so right before I jump into kapha, I just want to acknowledge, Satchin, that throughout our conversation it sounds like you intuitively have a sense about what is good for your constitution and not just by what you're drawn towards some of the foods or some of the oils or practices. And I find that the more in balance we become, the more in tune we become with what practices, you know, what to do. And that's that act of deep listening and there's less friction, less resistance. So the more we're on this path of self knowing, we can make those choices that support the long term balance. So I'm just, I'm seeing that happening for you, so I just wanted to acknowledge that.

Oh, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that. I did have another question. You said something about facial lines and features and one of the things that. Not to make this about me, but I'm finding this really fascinating and I hope that this helps others learn about the science of Ayurveda is I have these lines here. So whenever I smile I get these really deep lines in my face. And it's been like that since I was young. So it's not something that's new or because I'm getting older. Any thoughts on that or any comments on that? Is that something that I'm sure you would pick up in a face to face conversation? But I'm just curious if there's anything that we can unpack with that.

Yeah, that's really fascinating. The lines around the eyes that I'm more familiar with are the lines and texture underneath the eyes. The whole underneath the eye section relates to the kidneys and the adrenals. If there's darkness, brownness, or puffiness under the eyes, that directly is more kidney and adrenal, then the lines above the eyes relate to liver and gallbladder. Or if there's a deep line down the middle between the eyebrows, that's more a highly analytical person that has that real deep line right in the middle. But then ones on the side, I haven't learned that they particularly correlate to any internal workings or organs necessarily. It's more of a feature that might enhance as we get older, but I don't at this moment recall if there's any particular organ or concern at all with that.

Okay, so talk to me about the dark circles or the hyperpigmentation that can take place, because I know that's something that I experience, and I'd be curious as to what that indicates to you. I know you said kidney and adrenal, but perhaps if there's a solution, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Yes, I've seen this change over time for people. Like when I first meet them in a consultation setting, if there's either kind of a sunken or dark area or even puffy, and they say, oh, yeah, it's like this all the time, then I look at different factors that might be contributing to that. Maybe they're chronically dehydrated. Right. When we're chronically dehydrated, our kidneys and adrenals are under stress. So that could be one part of it. Another is just really going nonstop, that doing that, burning the midnight oil, not getting the restorative sleep over a period of time can accumulate and show up on the face. Or also not managing stress over a period of time. And for some people, there's somewhat of a genetic disposition. Maybe their parents and grandparents had some of that as they got older as well. So that can be part of it. We need to let ourselves off the hook to some degree. Some of these things are genetic, too.

All right, well, thank you for sharing. I'll try to stay as hydrated as I can. I don't burn the midnight I used to, but I very much prioritize my sleep now, and I try to take breaks and rest, and I've built an amazing team around me. But I'm going to try to drink more water and let's see if that's helpful at all. So I appreciate that. Let's move on to Kapha. Tell us more about the Kapha constitution.

So Kapha is the third constitution, and it's comprised of water and earth elements Kapha people tend to have more heavy, slow, cold, and kind of damp or watery qualities in their constitution. They're the ones that move more slowly through life. They're oftentimes not in a hurry. You rarely see a kapha person overstressed. They have the stamina. This pace they move that's very steady. They're steady in their movement, they're steady in their thoughts. They can get locked into their routines or even stay in the same job for 30 years. They tend to be creatures of habit, and they're comfortable with that. For them, it's nice to have friends who are pittas and vatas to change things up a little bit. When out of balance, kapha can be prone to colds or congestion or respiratory heaviness or allergies is pretty common for kapha emotionally. They can lean toward depression or sluggishness. They're perfectly happy staying at home on the couch, reading a book, watching a movie, eating yummy sweet, milky foods. But then. And that kind of lifestyle can aggravate them and bring heaviness and dullness to the body and mind. So what we suggest for the kapha person is to have a little bit more spontaneity and variety. While in Ayurveda, we highly recommend a regular routine for most people, Kaphas, it's good to kind of shake things up a little bit and get them outside and moving. So Dr. Ladd says the best thing for kapha, hands down, is a 30 minute walk outside every day, no matter what. And then also because they tend to be cold, to favor foods that are warm. You know, warm foods, warm spices, warm beverages. So that's basically kapha.

All right. And just for people hearing this for the first time, you're typically a combination of all three, right? So maybe as you're listening to this, you might be like, oh, that sounds like me. And then we move on to the next one, and that might sound like you a little bit, and then you move on to the next one. And that there might be some attributes in there. So what is the best way for people to assess what their dosha is? Is it seeing ayurvedic practitioner? Are there online quizzes? Is it reading a book like, where do people learn more about how to figure out what constitution they are?

Exactly. So like you said, Sachin, we are all a combination of all three doshas. We tend to be dominant in one or two. And there are different online dosha quizzes. I'm actually still in the process of making my own. But in the meantime, I like to refer people to Banyan Botanicals. It's a website, a source I get a lot of my herbs and products from. They're also good friends of mine. But if you really want to know your constitution beyond a self assessment, then you can set up a consultation with a local Ayurvedic doctor or practitioner. I offer consultations virtually. If you're in a place where there's a local Ayurvedic practitioner, I definitely recommend seeing them in person as well, if you can. It's nice to have that local relationship and feel free to reach out to me. I have a lot of colleagues in different places. I'm happy to refer.

That's awesome. So what, when you started learning Ayurvedic medicine, started applying it, I'm sure on yourself personally first, what were some of the aha moments and breakthroughs that you had?

I was just really thankful that even when I would personally go out of balance in my own life or with my diet or travel or something, I could bounce back pretty quickly to feeling in a balanced state because I had that foundation. And so I really saw that this is a long term plan and so that if I really follow and adhere to it, that it'll give fruit not only for me, but for my clients and my family as well. I have seen a lot of clients over the years just really heal in a deep way, especially when they go through a cleanse or a reset kind of program. There's something in Ayurveda called panchakarma and so it can be anywhere from 5 days to 21 days or longer. And. And it's a rejuvenation retreat over a number of days where a client is eating a certain kind of food, they're receiving massage and cleansing treatments, and they're taking different herbs that cleanse all the layers of their body. So it's physically cleansing, but also emotionally cleansing, enlightening. So the end result is that they're left feeling rejuvenated and nourished. So we first cleanse, but then we rejuvenate and build them back up, up for years of health.

I love that. So it seems to me, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that somebody who sees an Ayurvedic practitioner doesn't necessarily have to come in with a specific problem because the objective for them is how do I optimize my health in as many facets as I possibly can by learning about what my individual needs are and not necessarily focusing on the disease. Is that correct?

Exactly. So whether a person has symptoms that are presenting or they just want to know more about themselves and how to live a healthy life throughout the rest of their life, it's beneficial for all. So they say the disease or the non diseased all can benefit because it really gives us tools for self knowing. Like I mentioned before, once we know ourselves then we can make food choices and lifestyle choices. Especially when we get to this middle stage of life. There are different stages of life and this vata stage of life is midlife, menopause, 50s or so through end of life. This is when that vata dosha will accumulate for all of us. There can be more dryness, coldness, roughness, lightness. These qualities accumulate. I've had people come to me just in recognition of that. I just want to age gracefully and prevent problems as I grow older.

Yeah, I love that. I'm going to be making an appointment with you and I'm going to encourage Deepa because I feel like there's, you know, we do really well in terms of taking good care of ourselves and we're willing to put in the effort but having that laser guidedness and self awareness and just, you know, knowing what tea to prepare. Right. Instead of us both drinking the same teas, we could drink teas that balance our doshas out or use the oils that balance our doshas out or use the essential oils or whatnot that help us balance ourselves out which then balances our relationships out. So for couples that are working with an ayurvedic practitioner, what's the science there? To balance each other out but then also make it realistic. Right. Because sometimes if we're preparing meals and things like that, are there meals or foods or ingredients that are considered neutral that help any dosha? And are there? So how does that work for somebody?

Yeah, exactly, Sachin, when it comes to food. So for a couple or for a family, like I'll have moms come to me and she'll say there are five of us in the family, we all have different constitutions. What do we eat for dinner? And so the first kind of go to that we look at is to create a meal that's neutral for everybody. So creating maybe if you're having beans or veg, the main dishes are pretty neutral. So the ticket is really to have condiments and little side dishes that are suitable for each person. So for vata they're going to want more spice, more ginger or maybe like a spicy pickle or some sriracha or some cinnamon. So vata likes spice and warmth. And then for pitta, you want to actually cool things down usually. So more greens, more handfuls of cilantro, or adding some coconut, shredded coconut, or coconut milk, or coconut oil, or even ghee. Clarified butter is very, very cooling and anti inflammatory for pitta. Great for vata as well. So those are examples of condiments for those two. And then for kapha, we want to also spice things up. So maybe a spice like a masala churna, a mixture of spices they can sprinkle on, or maybe some chopped ginger root pieces. I feel like the condiments are really the key. And just for the person who's preparing the meal, to keep that in mind and for each member of the family to kind of know what their balancing tastes are and then to choose that for themselves over time.

Yeah. You know, there's this tofu that my, my mother in law prepares for us and she uses a lot of garam masala, which is very heating. So when I eat it, I have a totally different response to it than Deepa does. Like she loves it it. I love the flavor and I love the taste of it, but I could just feel that it's too heating for me. It's too warming for me. And she doesn't quite understand, you know, she's like, what are you talking about, Liza? It's totally fine for me. So this will be helpful in. And there's probably things that I could add to that that help cool it down. Right. Like I love a mint chutney with some cilantro and some mint and that could help cool that down and perhaps even balance that out. So perfect. That's a great tip with the condiments because then we can have our own individual condiments. We could have the same base food, but then we can add things to it to balance ourselves out a little bit more.

Exactly. And then the part that you're talking about for couples knowing each other's constitution and how to support each other with that, I feel like once we know our constitution, it just brings about more compassion and more understanding. Not only for ourselves in our constitution, but for our partner. It's like, oh, this person is really ungrounded. They seem really ungrounded and kind of spacey today. Okay, my dear, that's just your vata. That's just the vata. I see what's happening. I love you. That's fine. Give them a hug. Vata's response to touch hugging. Like a long warm hug or just holding the hand or a massage. Are Great ways. It's a good love language for a Vata person. Touch. And then for Pitta, Pittas can get kind of fired up and agitated. So for a vata or Kapha constitution person or even pitta looking at their pitta partner, it's like just having that patience and that compassion for that fire nature. It's like, oh, they're feeling passionate about something that's interesting. That's their beautiful pitta. I love you. I'm sure that will settle. It's like not getting triggered ourselves by our partners kind of dosha storm or reaction happening. And then for Kaphas, they tend to be maybe slower or maybe running a little bit late. They're not bothered or just really kind of slow in general. And so having compassion for that or maybe even inviting them to go for a walk, it's like, okay, how can I support my partner? What's funny is when you get two people of the same constitution in a relationship like Vata's, Dr. Ladd says they may not be able to decide which movie to watch. I'll spend an hour trying to decide, decide which movie to watch. Pittas can have conflict, a lot of passion and also a lot of conflict if there's imbalance. And then Kaphas can get both really sedentary together and not leave the house. So it's good to have some dynamic variables when it comes to these attributes in our personal relationships and also in our friendships.

Yeah, it sounds like knowing this information should be imperative for each and every one of us because it affects our relationships, it affects our health, it affects our work, it affects our professional relationships, our ambition. All that stuff can be impacted if we are out of balance in this way. Right. So I'd love to learn a little bit more about perhaps one of your favorite case studies. If you could perhaps walk me through that process of a client coming to see you. Some of the things that they struggled with and what were some of the things that you picked up and then helped them through and what was the outcome for them?

I have a number of them. One of my most personal, beloved case studies is my own sister in law. She was diagnosed with cervical cancer and her doctors were scheduling her hysterectomy in about one month. I sat down and had that very serious conversation with her and said, okay, this is your health, your life, your future. Let's do all that we can to preserve your body and your health. We have to take this seriously. So I did the full assessment with her. I wrote up a plan, and I basically Just put it in her hands that she is the one who's empowered to heal herself, that the healing really comes from her, and that I would be there to support her and provide accountability. So she completely got off of all the sugar when her pantry and threw away all the sugar and got on an herbal and essential oil protocol that was so effective, she went for a checkup one week later and they couldn't see anything on her cervix. There was no sign that anything was there. She continued the protocol for another month. And then every once in a while, some of the aspects of it, they canceled the surgery. And then two years later, she went on to have a beautiful baby girl who's my niece, who would not have been here if the surgeon would have gone ahead with their plan. I give her credit for her compliance and her dedication to her health. She healed herself in that case. But I'm just really grateful for that.

That's awesome. I love that. What do you think is stopping Ayurvedic medicine from becoming more well established in the West?

I feel like a lot of people are still learning the word. When I first started practicing just over 20 years ago, almost no one I spoke to with up in Seattle knew what the word was. So there's a lot of education about what it even is. But I find that as yoga is gaining popularity in the west, it's bringing Ayurveda with it because yoga and Ayurveda are sister sciences that grew together. So there's more awareness of it. I feel like habitually in our Western society we're kind of trained or we like to have quick results. We want to see there's. There's a problem, we want to see a solution immediately. And in Ayurveda, sometimes that does happen and sometimes it takes longer. Then what happens ultimately is that that problem goes away and never comes back. Once we apply these principles, it's more of a long term game. Not as short term, but it gives the long term results.

How can Western medicine and Ayurvedic medicine complement each other? If somebody does want, let's say they're in extreme pain and they want to take medications, or they have an acute challenge and they want to take the medication to address the issue, do they have to do one or the other or do you suggest doing both?

In a lot of cases it's really good to do both. We're so fortunate at this time on the planet to have access to so much information and diagnostic tools and resources. So I like to work sometimes as a Team with other practitioners, with the client's medical doctor or psychologist or chiropractor, and get permission from the client to discuss ability to do that. We can talk about what's going to help them. You're going to do this? I'm going to do this. For example, if they're seeing their GI doctor for some chronic gut problems, and maybe the GI doctor has hit a roadblock and they can't really do anything more for the patient besides give them more medication, then I'll work with them on improving their diet and taking some herbs or maybe doing some different oil therapies. And so I've seen this be really integrative. The digestive health between allopathic and Ayurvedic medicine can be really, really powerful, having both systems in on that.

All right. I know in functional medicine, we kind of prioritize in the hierarchy of systems, the digestive system. And in Ayurvedic medicine, it seems like all systems are a priority, and it's really about balancing all of them. Can you speak to that as well?

Yeah, really, it is all systems, the whole body. But we do look at one of the initial places where disease starts is the gut. Digestion is really a key focus for Ayurvedic practitioners as well, because of this concept of agni. Agni? Agni is your digestive fire that's present in the gut, but ultimately in every cell in the body. So if your digestive fire is weak, then even if you're eating the best foods, your body won't be able to absorb those nutrients. A lot of what I focus on is increasing each person's digestive fire so they can get the most from their food and get the most energy from their food as well and have a healthy digestion and elimination experience.

Awesome. Speaking of food, let's go the opposite end of the spectrum to fasting. What's Ayurvedic? The Ayurvedic principles around fasting.

Yeah, it's really interesting. So, again, it depends on for whom. And Dr. Ladd talks about different styles of fasting. He'll mention if you want to go on a fast for say, one day, then just drinking water and diluted juice. For vata, it could be a natural grape juice that's diluted with water. And then te pitta would be diluted pomegranate juice and kapha diluted apple juice. That's just a really simple water fast with a little bit of nutrients in there. This is very basic. The traditional fast in Ayurveda is called a mono diet fast, where we're not fasting completely from food, but we're eating something like kitchari. And kitchari is mung beans and basmati rice. Rice traditionally, and some spices and some veggies. So maybe someone will do a kitchari fast once per week. All they eat all day is kitchari and tea. And so that gives the body a break from other kinds of foods. And in Panchakarma, I mentioned this cleansing program that we do in Ayurveda, I'll have the clients eat kitchari and vegetables and tea. The whole process, whether for five days or for two weeks, they're only eating kitchari and vegetables. So all other foods are put on the back shelf for that duration. So it's that mono diet type of fast. And the all out pure water fasting, or even not water fasting, we don't do that as much, but we look at that as a possibility and something that we could integrate based on their constitution.

All right, now you've got me curious about this pomegranate juice and grape juice for Deepa. What, what are the ratios of juice to water that you're using or recommending?

Yeah, it could really be like one quarter glass of juice and then the rest of the glass with water. And the pomegranate juice is cooling and soothing. So sometimes pitta might get aggravated by orange juice or grapefruit juice or tomato juice. Those are all potentially aggravating for pitta. So the pomegranate juice or the coconut water, those are good choices for pitta. And then also grape juice, same proportions. And then to have the water be room temperature, not ice cold, that's a big deal in Ayurveda.

Okay, you said something that kind of struck a chord for me, which was tomatoes. So I kind of have an aversion to tomatoes. And Deepa, on the other hand, loves tomatoes. So this is a point of contention with our diet. And could you speak more to that? Like, how does, how does the tomatoes affect the vata versus the pita?

So for vata, they can digest the tomato in and of itself, but it is a nightshade. So in excess, over time, if vata is compromised, even the tomatoes can aggravate vata. So tomato, potato, eggplant, some peppers in excess can be a problem, but they tend to do better with tomatoes than pitta. Tomatoes are kind of sharp and acidic and potentially aggravating for pitta constitutions. So I often recommend when a pith, the person wants to enjoy tomato to favor the in season garden fresh tomatoes as opposed to a tomato soup or a marinara sauce, to just have it as a side dish when it's in its season.

Okay. It's like it's so funny because when you describe, or interesting rather when you describe some of these attributes of the food, like sharp, I can feel that like it's a knowing, you know what I mean? Like it's very descriptive of how it feels in my body. So thank you for that clarification. I appreciate that. So Sarah, tell me, if you would, how can people learn more about what you're doing and what can they expect working with you?

So my practice has changed a lot in the last year and as I've been working with you and your mentorship, Sachin, I have brought my entire brick mortar practice online and part of that is to be home with my daughter. So I'm working from home. I'm seeing almost all my clients on Zoom or by phone. And so I provide Ayurvedic consultations, an Ayurvedic lifestyle and metabolic reset program called Ignite youe Life. We just finished our 10 week program last week and that was amazing. So I'm integrating functional medicine and Ayurveda over a period of time where climbing can really see their body changing, really get to know their constitution and make healthy choices going forward. So those are the primary things I'm focusing on right now. And I have a website, my contact information, everything is available there. Just embrace ayurveda.com all right.

This has been awesome. Thank you so much for enlightening me and willing to share a little bit more about what you your perspective is. For me being a pita, I would invite anyone watching this to check out Sarah's website, learn a little bit more about how Ayurvedic medicine can be beneficial to you and follow my footsteps. I'm going to be reaching out to you, Sarah, after this. I'd love to explore this further with you and make sure that I'm doing everything that I can to stay balanced right, and stay healthy and keep my wife healthy, keep my son healthy and live in harmony with one another and most importantly, live in harmony in our bodies because it's the only body we have and it's important for us to take great care of it and show up in the best way that we can. So thank you again. Any closing words, any final thoughts? You've given us so much wisdom today and I know there's so much that we could unpack here. So I'd love to see if there's anything that you'd love to leave us with.

Well, there's this concept that I've been thinking a lot about just personally, and it's a Sanskrit word, bhakti, which is devotion. And this concept of bhakti. Bhakti can look a lot of different ways to a lot of us. But what I've been realizing that ultimately bhakti is devotion to our consciousness and devotion to listening to our inner wisdom. Because we all have our inner wisdom that knows the answer, that which we're seeking. It's there within us. And so just to allow ourselves to get quiet and to listen to our inner wisdom, that is such a powerful expression of devotion. So that's what's been on my mind lately.

Well, thank you so much gratitude, so much appreciation. And here's to your best life, your best business, your, you know, your greatest success. And I'm so glad that we had to have. We had a chance to have this conversation so more people can learn about you and ayurvedic principles and how they can help us advance our health and our wellness.

Thank you so much, Sachin. It's been really fun sharing with you all today.