Timely Intervention for Autism with Evidence Based Ayurveda : Dr. Dinesh KS MD (Ayu)

Hello and namaskaram. I am Salila Sukumaran, the founder of AyurGamaya, an Ayurveda wellness concierge based in Mountain View, California. You are listening to the AyurGamaya podcast. Through these conversations with great karma yogis of Ayurveda, yoga, and other Vedic sciences, I wish to bring to you the treasures of India. If you are a beginner, my mission is to help you develop appreciation. If you are a practitioner, my goal is for you to become confident torchbearers of our immense legacy. May the gods and the gurus bless you. I am honored to welcome Dr. Dinesh to the Ayurgameya podcast. Dr. Dinesh K.S., M.D., Ayurveda, is Professor and Head of Department of Kaumarabhritiya Pediatrics at the Vaidyarathnam P.S. Varyar Ayurveda College. He is the author of several textbooks on Ayurvedic pediatrics. Dr. Dinesh has several notable publications and research articles in national and international peer-reviewed medical journals. He has conducted over 200 workshops and seminars, especially focusing on the true spirit of Ayurveda nationally and internationally. Dr. Dinesh also holds the distinction as the first Ayurveda physician to create an evidence-based Ayurveda treatment protocol for autism spectrum disorders. Welcome, Dr. Dinesh, to the Ayurgameya podcast. Dr. Dinesh, thank you so much for taking this time with us and speaking to us about your expertise in managing autism spectrum disorders. We are seeing that autism spectrum disorder is diagnosed far more regularly now than ever before. What, in your opinion, is the reason for this?

Yeah, actually, uh, it's a global concern that the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder is highly increasing, alarmingly. There are several factors behind this phenomenon. Number one, previously, uh, there was a division of autism and autism spectrum disorder, and, uh, several other diagnostic intricacies were there. But nowadays, everything, all these clinical entities came under single umbrella after the publication of DSM-5 criteria, that is autism spectrum disorder. If 3 major headings are impaired, okay, that is autism spectrum disorder. So diagnosis, uh, turned to very easy procedure. So the number of cases raised, number 1 reason. Number 2, from 2004 to 2013, this is the highest number what we are observing. Not only this fact, because, uh DSM-5 has emerged and published in 2013 only. Not only this, actually, uh, there were a lot of other reasons, like the parents are so curious, number one, to observe their children, and to, uh, the insurance system and the healthcare system can progress ahead only if it is coming under a terminology. So whatever may be the behavioral disorder, there will be certain terminologies which are pointing towards that behavioral problems. As autism is a neurobehavioral disorder, after the simplification of the diagnostic process, process, the, the total, the diagnosed cases have been increased. Second thing, our lifestyle had a dramatic change in the last few decades. Yes, last few decades. We generally call, uh, the more we are developed, the more we are more liable to get autism behavior. Developed means our, our definition of development is something related to several indices like child death rate and the lifespan and mortality rate. And whatever the efforts what we are putting to improve these indices are invariably connected to the production of autism features in the society.

Amazing! That is something I have never heard before. So this is the product of us getting more and more civilized, sanitized, more evolved?

The concept of civilization should be changed. Actually, civilization is needed for good behavior and for the productivity of the society, no doubt at all. But the definition of civilization does not mean that it should be a lifestyle of car to carpet.

Hmm, got it.

It can be something other than that.

Car to carpet. Okay, I get that. By age 5, usually these symptoms that are associated with autism spectrum disorder come to play, come to manifest, becomes apparent. How can a parent tell if their child requires help and assistance?

In that, actually, by the age of 5 is Uh, not a common statement actually. Usually in between 2 and 3 years, uh, the autism behaviors are getting evident clinically, and we should diagnose it in between 2 and 3 years. And it is usually happening in, uh, good societies. Why I am telling good societies? America or Germany or UK are not good enough to diagnose the case within this age limit. You should read one of the beautiful article, uh, which was published in JAMA, and article's name is 'Is US Health Is Really Best in the World?' Written by Barbara Starfield. Okay, many people, many of my kids and parents are coming to India to get it diagnosed because even though one parent is having an anxiety regarding the child's condition, whether he is autistic or not, if he— if the parent is raising that concern to his medical professional to get it diagnosed, it will take minimum of 6 to 8 months of time to get the proper, um, what we can say, proper appointments and to get all the diagnostic procedures to get it completed. It will take minimum of 8 months in U.S. It's really bad. The situation is very dangerous.

Yes.

And if you come, if you come to India or in Japan or in any other countries other than these so-called developed countries, you can directly take an appointment of the clinical psychologist and you can directly take an appointment of the pediatrician. You can get it diagnosed within one day, right? Right, within one day. And this is the reason why, because of the late diagnosis of the autism in many of the countries, number one factor. Number two, any parents If that parent is observing a child, whether the child is not responding to call, whether the child is not turning towards your sound, or whether the child is not at all communicating you with even with gestures, and if the child is not having eye contact, or the child is showing any repetitive mannerisms, either in the, uh, either in the language or in activities. And if the child is having any deficit in the language, certainly that case is going to be autistic. And in such cases, to confirm the diagnosis, okay, and to make a differential diagnosis, one should, uh, one should consult initially a pediatrician, later on a team of clinical psychologists and pediatrician and neurologist so that they can get it diagnosed very easily. And this procedure is, uh, time-consuming in the US, and that is a prime concern.

Okay, right, I got it. So, uh, it is essential for parents to have help and assistance in diagnosing as quickly as they can so they can intervene and then that, you know, you can support the child to develop in a more natural way, which is, you know, which will not hamper, because it is critical. These years are very critical.

Very critical.

Yes, very critical. Dr. Dinesh, you are one of the top experts on autism and Ayurveda. What is the Ayurvedic perspective on autism spectrum disorder?

Yeah, in Ayurveda perspective Ayurveda is a nonlinear science, right? Nonlinear science in the sense, uh, the simple meaning of nonlinear means in nonlinear area, 1 2 need not be 3. It can be 100 or it can be 50.

True, true.

And otherwise, uh, we call it as holistic. That is the meaning of holistic. Right, because you cannot judge the feature of a forest by studying a single tree or three trees. The forest is entirely different from trees. So the Ayurveda perspective will be entirely different from the biomedical understanding of the current science and technology. We consider the total human being and the universe and the herb, everything is nonlinear. And the human being basically— any organism basically consider there are 3 components in them. Number 1 is the body, number 2 is psyche, and number 3 is consciousness. In Ayurveda, it is called as Sattva, Atma, and Sharira. So autism is a condition where the sattva as well as the consciousness as well as the body has its own problems. Both— all these three components are getting impaired in autism, right? Impaired in the sense, uh, they are abnormal. They are abnormal in the sense they are not functioning according to the normal definition. It doesn't mean it need not be abnormal. It is not coming under the normal definition. And body has its own problem, sattva has its own problem, and the consciousness has its own problem. The consciousness part is the collective consciousness, which is actually, it is inherited. Values through the generations. Yeah, whatever we started to produce, our prick of consciousness during the 18th or 17th century, that can also be transferred to current generation according to the principles of Indian philosophy, right? Okay. And the psyche part which is formulated at the time, or which is formed at the time of the union of sperm and egg, and its situation and its environment That is also getting afflicted in autism spectrum disorder. Obviously, the body, the 38 trillion cells and its functioning will be hampered because if the consciousness and psyche is not functioning well, every reactions in each and every cell will get damaged. And This is the basic reason for which this autism is happening, number one. Number two, the most modern cell biologists, for example, if you read the book The Biology of Belief written by the famous cell biologist, his name is Bruce H. Lipton, Bruce H. Lipton. He was a cell biologist in Caribbean Sea in the medical colleges. For 30 years he is used to look under the microscope about the cell, and he finally found the crux of his findings were like this: there are 4 things which are governing the life, and that is actually, that is the principle of, uh, that's, that principle is there with the Ayurveda. What are the 4 principles? Number 1 is activities of daily living. If you are waking up at the right time, if you are waking up in the wrong time, both are affecting your cellular functions. Number 2, your thought process. If you are happy, cell will be happy. If you are envy, cell will be envious. If you are angry, cell will get damaged. Yeah, okay. Then third one is your food and drinks. Whatever you are putting into in your system, all those are immortal things and those are converted to, for example, if you are taking the biscuit, that will be converted to Salila Sukumaran. Yeah, that's a wonderful mechanism of human body, right? And what you are putting inside will have its own impact on each and every cell of you, right? If you are, if you are taking the good things You will have good cells and functions. So the food and drinks. The fourth point is the environment where he or she lives, the family environment, the social environment, and the seasonal environment. So these are the four things which are very important and they are playing crucial role for the production of autism spectrum disorder. And that is the reason why, because I told you, the more we are developed The more we have manipulated our thought process, our environment, our food and drinks, and our activities of daily living, the more chances of getting autistic behavior.

Wow, so you have just put the whole thing into like a 360-degree perspective. So, so just as these four aspects, because they are not in harmony, they can create a child with a disorder, can we use these four aspects to then heal the child and help the child come back to normalcy?

Surely what we are doing in our treatments is nothing but the management of these four components.

How— could you please elaborate a little bit on that? Would you please share some examples and give us some more idea on how this is being done?

Yeah, for that, recently I, uh, I presented my research work in Stanford University in US. You, you will get that link in YouTube. I can send you that, that YouTube link too. And in that, I have presented my research work on Agastya. Agastya, actually the term is the name of a saint of Ayurveda, but that's, that's an acronym, uh, for one of my treatment package and management package. Rather than treatment, we should say that it is management, right? Agastya is Ayurveda drugs, A for Ayurveda drugs, and G, G for gut therapy protocol. Then AS, Ayurveda Standards of Living. And 3, T for training of the parents, Y-A for yogic assistance.

Beautiful.

So training of the parents, yoga, Ayurveda standards of living, gut therapy protocol, and Ayurveda hubs. These will manage the 4 factors: family environment, the social environment, and the environmental changes according to the season, and the total 38 trillions of our cells and psyche and consciousness.

Beautiful, beautiful.

So this is the management strategy what we are, uh, we are doing, out of which this is a broad, uh, work. And in that there are several randomized controlled trials are doing, but with the help of Government of India. For example, I will give you one example of my study that, um, you know, the human body has a lot of microbiome. Most of them are in our intestine, and these are highly disturbed in children with autism spectrum disorders, and they are affecting highly to the functions of neurotransmitters and brain functions. And almost 90% of the children who are suffering from ASD is having a disturbed or deranged equilibrium of this microbiota. We call it as dysbiosis. And we had an experiment which is going on as a randomized controlled trial, that we put 50 autism children in one group who are continuing all the therapies, and another 50 who are undergoing, along with this therapy, ayurvedic medications against their protocol. And we analyze the microbiome of the intestine by a gene sequencing method, 16S rRNA sequencing method. It was quite wonderful that in Ayurveda group, plenty of, uh, the stable— with a high equilibrium, all the microbiome are functioning when we compare with other groups.

Amazing, amazing.

This is the beauty of the management of these 4 factors. So my point is Agastya, or the management of Sharira, Sattva, and Atma. This is the basis of Ayurveda management. Who is doing the Ayurveda management? I put it under this heading only. The real Ayurveda management should consist of Ayurveda drugs, should consist of the management of the family, and should consist of, uh, this, uh management of psyche and consciousness.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. What— would you please—

you got an idea?

Would you please share with us some examples that you have seen of children doing better with the timely intervention with your Agastya program?

Yeah, yeah, because it's my, uh, 17th year in the career of autism management with Ayurveda.

Congratulations!

And, uh, near about more than 2,000, 3,000— it will come around 2,000, 3,000 autism children had been treated by us. And Of these, we had a lot of experiences. For example, in one group of children, we never treated. Instead, we gave only the parental training for 7 days of parental training program, and we assessed the children before the training program and after 1 month of the training program, after 3 months of the training program. Wonderfully, Uh, these children's autism behavior came down even without the treatment. Wow. What does it mean? There is an emotional environment for this child, and that environment has to be changed first. For that, the quality of life of the parents and the primary caretakers should be taken into consideration for the first time.

Yes.

The second thing is that we have a lot of, uh, Children who are, what we can say, who are running the hotel after getting married to a normal woman. And we have children in Israel, because in Israel after 18 years they should join the defense in the army. So how these people will get into the army. And what they are doing, you know, one of my friend is teaching them, uh, how to interpret the satellite image. For example, satellite image. And these people, these autistic children, are interpreting in another way, entirely in a unique way. And through the Ayurveda treatments we are doing, uh, we are making a homeostasis of the total body, sattva, and consciousness, so that their potential output will be increased. And we have a lot of other children who are studying in IITs, Indian Institute of Technology, right now.

Yes.

And those children, those children who are not high functioning, and we are keeping them in another premise. We are, we are creating villages in Kerala So that the adult autistics with low functions, they are taken care of and they are autonomous over there. And several villas, we are building several villas and this primary caretakers will be all days and the district collector will be the guardian of the children and this will be considered as a special zone and all the amenities, life amenities will be set up. In that area, and their body morbidities and everything will be taken care of with Ayurveda. And daily Agastya programs are running over there, and they are living smoothly.

That is beautiful. They, they have—

these are the different areas where I can quote the examples.

That is just beautiful to hear that these children are unique, and they have very unique ways of looking at the world. And some of them may be high functioning Some of them may need extra support, but they also have a purpose and a goal and a reason why they have incarnated.

Yes.

They also have a service to offer the world.

Yes.

You mentioned that the parents, their mindset is most important, and the primary caregivers have to be in a good state of mind. But, you know, unfortunately, in India, you know, when a parent first comes across you know, such symptoms in the child, usually grandparents will say— they will vilify the parent, or they will say you're making a big fuss over nothing. They will hinder the diagnosis process because they will say, oh, this is how children are. 2-year-old is supposed to throw tantrums. How do you help parents manage those kind of stressful situations?

See, the family system in India— can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you.

Family system in India is actually bipolar. It is, it is double-edged sword because here family system, it consists of actually so many members. There are many of of the families are not nuclear families. Yes, so many members will be the grandma, grandpa, and siblings and their children, and it will be a big society. One family will be a big society, and the lacking of this social perspective is the reason of autism spectrum disorder. So usually whenever the NRIs, as non-residential Indians, are coming to me, I will usually instruct them to stay here in Kerala for, uh, for 1 year or 2 years. Your child will get development automatically.

Wow.

Because they will suffer a lot of, a lot of experiences from grandpa, grandma, and nearby families. And our social system is in such a way that everyone is mingled. Everyone will ask about you. Everyone will ask about your children. Everyone will take care of your children, both positively and negatively. Yes, the child should get all those experiences. Automatically he will turn to social beings, social being, because in Kerala especially everyone has curiosity on everyone's activities, right? Even though it is not good socially, but it is good for this type of children, number one. Number two, um, immediately after getting a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder Of course, that will be an emotional trauma to the parents, especially the primary caretaker, obviously the mom in Indian culture.

Yes.

And till the age of 25 or 28 or 30, whatever the imagination about the life she constructed, all of a sudden everything collapsed on the day of the diagnosis. Yes, the initial stage of the mind of that parent will be denial. They will not accept it. That is a purposeful denial. It is not an automatic one. No, I won't believe that my kid is autistic, right? It will be all right as the time passes. This will be the, the first statement from the parent. So the second stage is the depression. Even though she denied this fact, she know that he is autistic. The child is abnormal. The second stage is the depression stage. And the third stage will come where she will resist everything. She will resist everything. Even the common, the activities of daily living will be resisted by her. And a fourth stage will come, in that a stage of acceptance.

Yes.

So what we are doing by understanding this psychology, we manage the parents.

Yes.

Which is the stage of the parent in front of me? That we will assess first, whether she is in a depressive mood or whether she is in a denial mode. Or whether she is in a resistance mode. And we will bypass everything by counseling so that she should accept the thing. So the mood of acceptance.

Yes.

In some parents it will take 1 year of time, in some parents it will not take at all. So our first effort is within 2 months we will make them accept, their mind will be ready to accept the fact of this child is suffering from autism spectrum disorder, then it is very easy that we will put them into the groups, several successful groups where the parents are getting interactive with one another, each other, and they will share their success stories and they will share their activities of daily living, how they are managing their children. So they will be— they will get another rebirth after this acceptance stage. They will get another rebirth so that they will design another style of life, not to lead the life but to live the life with the child. That's very important. So these are the different educational procedures what we are giving to the parents as well as As I told you, we are conducting several parallel programs, uh, to do many Ayurveda therapies and yoga therapies so that they will be acquainted with minimum of 10 to 15 different procedure-based therapies of Ayurveda. So whenever they are complaining that, uh, my child is hyperactive today, so do 1P2. For 7 days. So they know how to do and everything. Similarly, we, uh, we give them that much training to do near about 10 to 15 Ayurveda therapies that are useful for their day-to-day living. So this will capacitate them very well.

What are—

they can bypass a lot of money expenditure also by this because I Ayurveda is that much costly, right? So here, actually, Ayurveda is not costly. It made in such a way that it, it should be— the deliverable will be costly.

Yes. What, what are some common therapies you use, you teach the parents to do?

If you could share with us briefly how to make, how to make swarna prasa, how to make, uh, shiro lepa, herbal application of the therapies, how to make the powder massages, how to make the oil massages, how to make Nasya, how to make home customized Siddho Dhara. So these are the different therapies we teach them. For this purpose only we are coming to US. In within 2 months we are reaching there to sensitize a group of parents over there. They are my kids' parents, means my Patients, parents.

I got that. That is beautiful. We are looking forward to have you come to the US, to Europe more often and share all these beautiful practices with parents and to educate them. Where can they get in touch with you? Where do you offer— do you offer online education?

Yeah, actually, uh, the workshop cannot be done online. Yes, that is the basic issue. Workshop cannot be done online. Okay, I can do the seminars, I can do the webinars, but this workshop cannot be done online. Yes, because, uh, the every moment, uh, while making this workup, I have to look into the the consistency, and by directly by eyes, then only I will be able to say that yes, it is okay. Otherwise I cannot say through the computer that this is okay by looking the color of it. No, it's not good. So we are offering the online, uh, different classes, uh, free of course. We are giving courses And, uh, this also, this expenditure, you know, the expenditure of the workshop is nothing but, uh, there is no additional fee for that. Only thing is that the conveyance and accommodation, food, stay, and these are the only expenditure what these parents are in need of. There is no other course fee for us because we are giving it as a service and it's a voluntary activity from our institution and myself.

This is beautiful. Where do they find more information about this? Would you share it with me so I can add to the show notes and then they can approach you?

Yeah, uh, if you, uh, my URL is www.ethicalayurveda.com. Ethicalayurveda.com. Yes, you can WhatsApp the inquiry or email the inquiry. Enter my WhatsApp number, as you know, uh, 9447698085. Uh, even, uh, Salila Sukumaran can be an ambassador of this Agastya training program in U.S. and you can coordinate because it is an open program. There is no trademarking or there is no patency. For this, uh, this thing. And, uh, so we all— we people are all dedicated to propagate this, uh, this natural science, this nonlinear science, uh, for the benefit of these children, not for any other cases. Uh, we are not doing the workshop for the cervical spondylosis. For that, yes, we have the workshop, but it is chargeable.

Yes. Thank you so much for such a generous, big-hearted service towards mankind because of your love for these children. And this has been an eye-opening conversation for me as well because I did not connect all the dots about, you know, the, the four main aspects, and that through these therapies, through Nasya, through Pichu, through Lepas, we are actually able to make a difference. Thank you so much for taking—

Thank you, thank you.

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Kamsajanuramardhanam. Devaki Paramanadam. Devaki Paramanadam. Devaki Paramārāṭṭha, Kṛṣṇa Vande, Kṛṣṇa Vande, Kṛṣṇa Vande Jagadguru Mahāprabhu. Krishnam Vandey Jagadguru. Krishnam Vandey Jagadguru.

Krishnam Vandey.

Krishnam. Krishnam Vandey Jagadguru. Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna Nivenganen Bhara. Krishna Nee Begane Baro. Krishna, Krishna, Krishna Nee Begane, Begane Baro. Naakreshani, Beganevaru.