Stepping Out of the System: The Real Hero’s Journey with Mamoun Alamouri

Grand rising and welcome to New Mind, where our intention is clear and is to share information for transformation. Thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the time to watch this or listen to this wherever you are in the world. It really means a lot to me. And if you are new to the channel, please subscribe and pay attention to this particular episode because I guarantee you this conversation, you're going to walk away with something that's going to shift your mind And perhaps actually potentially change your life. I have a very, very special guest with me today, someone I've had the pleasure of knowing both personally, a family friend, but someone I've known for almost 30 years back actually. We'll talk about the story how we know each other, but someone that I've reconnected in in in Dubai and someone that honestly speaking I must say has been one of the most interesting. People that I've come across in my journey. And I'm really proud because he's a friend and I even call him a brother. So I have with me today Maamoun El Amouri. And Maamoun is a leading voice in AI-powered sales and marketing in the MENA region. And after 19 years in enterprise tech and sales leadership across global companies such as Google, Cisco, Avaya, and Uniphore, and over a decade working on hands with AI, he founded SM Orchestra, an AI orchestration and automation company, helping businesses, entrepreneurs to build AI-driven sales and marketing machines. And about 6 months ago, and I've been a witness to his journey, guys, but about 6 months ago, Mahmoud walked away from it all, from the corporate world and leaving a VP role at a Silicon Valley AI company to go all in in his mission. He now documents the real journey of scaling his AI agency from a 6-figure side hustle into a 7-figure company, sharing frameworks, tools, and honest lessons with entrepreneurs and SMEs across the region and around the world. Welcome, Mahmoud. It's so good to have you here, brother.

Pleasure, Sam.

I really, really appreciate it. And, you know, it's interesting because, and I'm not really trying to compliment here, but honestly speaking, every conversation I've ever had with you off camera has always been one that I find so much depth in. And it's always been a pleasure because I genuinely, I'm very lucky, you know, Mahmoud, because in the work I do, I'm always learning and working with people from all around the world, right? And I get to see different mindsets because that's my line of work, right? And you have, you know, honestly, you have such a beautiful mind, brother. You have a very powerful, and that's a testament to you always being, knowing you, you've always been a high achiever from your high school all the way through to university, always being the first in your class, first at what you do. And I know you don't share this with, with public, but you are, you know, one of those that has an extremely high IQ. And, and it's always a pleasure, and I really appreciate you being with, with us today. And, um, I want to start the conversation with something that you introduced me to over a period of time, and it's about this hero's journey, Mahmoud. And I remember you, you, uh, mentioned to me the story and the book of Joseph Campbell, um, and how every single one of us today in life in general has what we call this hero's journey. So if you don't mind, just for our audience to start the conversation, if you can just zoom out and give them a bit of a context to how you explained to me what this hero journey is, what Joseph Campbell was all about, but how it somehow reflects on our own journey and in your journey in particular.

Absolutely, Sam. I think, see, Joseph Campbell's work is outstanding in so many ways that, and I know you talk a lot Awakening, Joseph Campbell introduced the concept that you can awaken through mythology. So that's one of the like for me was a shocking moment, correct? And I'll tell you why in a minute because when you think about all culture, whether Islam, whether in Quran, whether in Christianity, whether in whatever Buddha Buddhism and all that kind of culture, even non-religious culture, you will find always there is a hero that people. look up to. And beside the hero, there is so many other heroes that people look up to. And Joseph Campbell was, his main thesis, he has 2 strong thesis. One of them is everyone, and he studied, you know, his awesome book, A Hero with a Thousand Faces. He studied many heroes and he come up with an arc. He's 17 stages. Let's, I'll summarize them in a, maybe a zoom out and look at it from a bigger picture perspective just to make it more practical to the people. But he kind of introduced that element that when you study all these kind of hero, all of them follow the same arc, the same structure. And I think it resonated so many things with the people because eventually it speaks with our psyche. Because eventually what is happening outside is actually an insight. So that hero that you hear, whomever hero that you're referring to, in reality, it's actually something within you and you kind of live in that struggle within you. But one of the most beautiful things from the zoom out of that journey is that he look at 2 words, one word called the known and one word called the unknown. And that is like the first thing that struck me when I look at that journey. By the way, like the way I wanna speak about it, because eventually it's really one of the things that make me quit my job.

Yeah.

And make me actually go into the journey of Uncover and make, help me make a lot of sense of what I'm going through.

Yes.

It actually was that book. So that's why, like, you know, it's always in front and I bought it as a book and I always, it's a reminder for me all the time. So you follow the arc, you have an unknown, you are living in the known. The known in our world is what the system promised. System promised people, you are going to school, you get good grades, you go to the university, you go to a good engineering, whatever kind of good specialty based on where you are at. You know, you and I in our country was like either a doctor or an engineer.

Yes.

I went for engineering, thanks God. I chose that, not a doctor, though my family wanted me to be a doctor. But I went to that, and then you go and you work. If you do very well, you climb the ladder. And then all of a sudden, I was doing that. And during the— but I never felt settled. All the time, there is an aching within me. Like, I didn't feel the sense of belonging in there. And there is, you know, and then I got into a Part of it is the hero journey, but I did a lot of things. I started meditating maybe 10 years ago and I started discovering what is that voice that is wanting me to step in outside what I'm doing? Though what I'm doing, look at the outside, like you got it. Like you have a high-paying job, you got the car you want, you got the house you want, you married to your love of your life. Like it looks like you get it all.

Mm-hmm.

So why things doesn't feel settling? And actually, Joseph Campbell talk about this very well. He talk about it when the hero refuse the calling. And when I say a hero, I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking everybody is a hero in their own journey.

Yes.

Now, if you never step out from the known to the unknown, you'll almost will never taste this. And it took me some 42 years, like since I discovered, maybe 12 years, but it took me a lot of time to take that job, to take that step.

Yes.

And during that time, And that's what Joseph Campbell said as well. You will, when the hero reject the calling, and we see it in movies as well, you start suffering. You feel the suffering, you become a victim. You become somebody who need to be saving. Or things start not working out for you. Like, you know, and there's so many examples of movies you can relate to. But eventually when you accept the calling, you step into the unknown. Now you step. You go into a new world. There is a new world, like, that's the unknown. And that is usually the worldless trouble. You go in there, you will face obstacles. And during these obstacles, you will need to start building skills. And then you reach to the abyss. And in the abyss, before you reach to the abyss, you feel you reach to a point, they call it the point of no return, which is that you cannot go back to the old world. Like, that's it. Like, the way is only forward.

Hmm.

And then you're going forward, then you face the dragon. And this is where in a lot of movies, when you see people actually, and that's, it's a death and rebirth. And it symbolizes a lot in the movies. And if you look at even like our favorite, or at least my favorite movie is The Matrix. When Neo died, like he literally died to, you know, to come and rise again to become the one eventually.

Yes.

So it's the death and rebirth and you see it across all that. But then, it come to you as a calling, whether are you gonna go to the new world?

Yes.

And you need to go back to the known now.

Yes.

Like if you have to go, not you have to, but if you gotta help people, you go back to the known world and you need to help people within that. So one of the core thing when I was at corporate, I realized in corporate, that's the path that was drawn to us. That's the known. And if you gonna go back to the today in our world, Entrepreneurship, at least in our region, entrepreneurship is unknown. It has a lot of uncertainty with it. And when you cross that, when you cross that, you started in reality, like that is the, at least to me, that was the moment where I figure out, look, I'm taking the hero journey now.

Yes.

So that is kind of like, maybe we'll talk maybe more about it, but that's the beginning.

I love it. I love it. And I resonate with that, Mahmoud, because remember, I reflect while you're speaking. I'm reflecting on my own journey, and I can't believe it. I was actually making a post the other day. It's almost been eight years. Can you believe it? Eight years stepping out of the corporate world, depending on a salary, depending on security, and what was the norm. And I and I that's why I feel our journey somehow there's a parallel a com the parallel resonance because you know I I was the same. You know I wanted to get my sports car. I always share the story. You know I my my dream. Car was an Audi S3. I got it, and I know you've got the Maserati. That was one of the things that you had as a manifestation, right? So it's always been ticking all those boxes, reaching a senior level, you know, making whatever you know considered is a successful title, and still there was something missing, right? And I think I think this is the initiation, Mahmoud, that a lot of people get to step into the unknown. But the conditioning, which I see a lot with my with my clients, is and the fear of the unknown is what holds people back most. the time because the mind is trying to protect them of what could go wrong versus what could go right, right? So it's the choice. Um, but, but, but the— like you said, the hero's journey only begins, at least for, for my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is it only begins when you step into the unknown, right? When you, when you take that first step. So for me, what I want to ask you, Mahmoud, and you know, when I look at you, Mahmoud, you've got a lot of responsibility, right? So do I. But you have a family, you have, uh, you know, you have a lot of things going on for you in your life. And I feel the longer— in at least in my understanding— the longer a person waits to step into entrepreneurship, I feel sometimes it becomes a little bit more complex, right? Can be more complex. So, so for me, my question to you is, what was that moment for you when you realized that you needed to go all in? What was that? What was that calling? What was that aha moment where you couldn't keep— you, you, you, you know what I mean? Like, you can't be in 2 worlds. What was that? What was that that real urge, that fire that came up that was like, okay, I'm all in? Because I think that is very inspiring in my opinion. So for you, what was that moment? Where did that come from?

Yeah, well, Sam, I really— you said so many things to unpack, but I'll tell you, it's never like— to me at least, there is a moment you come where you say, I'm going to burn the ships. That's it. And I did that. Yeah. And but it's not a moment. This has been I work for 12 years while I introduce, at least I met my ego and spirit, and I get into meditation and breathing and these kind of things, start into awakening. And it takes a lot of courage. It takes a lot of courage. I think courage is the biggest word. When it comes to not maybe interpretation, just taking the hero journey, it takes a lot of courage to go into that.

Yeah.

And the buildup towards this, and that's what when you said, see, I think I'm going to look like a tangent, but it's very important.

It's fine.

Go for it. I think a lot of people, they think that entrepreneurship is a young guy game. And I think this is absolutely wrong and it sends the wrong picture. And I'm not saying that this should not interrupt. You should not encourage young people to do interpretation. Absolutely not. When you have a lesser risk, when you don't have a family, you don't have, you can actually go in easier. It's an easier thing because actually it's a skill. Yeah. And the university and things that they don't teach you that skill. Yeah. And that skill, there's a skill and there is a mindset with it. Yeah. You need to to learn as well. Yeah. So when you are learning, you gotta go and the sooner you learn these things is the better. Yeah. Nonetheless. When I read a book which is Think and Grow Rich, and I read it earlier and I read it so many times, every year I read it actually. But there is one, the first time I read it, something stuck with me that when they studied the most successful people, the writer, the Hells said in the book that the best man work, it's happened between 40 and 60. And I was young when I read that and I was shocked, man. I was like, wow, look, Between 40 and 60. And it makes a lot of sense in a way. And when I went back to the research, even during our time, I find out that the vast majority of successful entrepreneurship who built successful companies, actually they started at age 42.

Wow.

But we glorify the university dropout. We glorify, you know, started so early. So for a guy in the corporate, you feel like I missed the boat. And I've seen that with so many friends within me. And you see that within you as well at start. But you're right in a way that the longer you wait, the more conditioning the energy will suck it in. So I'll tell you why it's never been a point for me. Like there's a point will come that you say there's no return, it will come. But since I introduced to that calling, I've been working in so many side hustles. I decided I'm not gonna stay in corporate. I knew that, but I knew as well, You know, family and so on and so forth. But at the same time, I was not ready. I don't have the skills. I don't have the mindset.

Yes.

Of entrepreneur. Interestingly, because I was top of my class in university, I started in corporate right away. I never worked in a small company.

Yeah.

I don't know what does it mean to be an entrepreneur in reality. Like, I had no, you know, so, and what a lot of people maybe don't know that I believe that corporate is actually the worst at teaching you entrepreneurship. I wouldn't say it's the opposite, but it's nearly the opposite of entrepreneurship because you're part of a bigger machine. Your definition of driving value actually changes. When you are a bigger machine, you gotta just sell what is on the cart. You're gonna build what people say. So you never think, sit down and think, what value am I driving? What is it like? Is these people have a better, you know? So reality, you lose the element, the definition of value, it's redefined because your value is, you are a part of a small thing. The value is driven by a bigger element, which is the machine that is work as a corporate. So you lose that. And the far away from the, you away from the value, the end value, you start losing that. So, and this is where other thinking come is that the enemy, the enemy of greatness in his book, Good to Great, Jim Campbell, I forgot his name, but he wrote, the enemy of greatness is good.

The enemy of greatness is good.

Okay. It's not, you know, when you are suffering, the only way is up.

Yeah.

But when you got everything you want, you are in comfort.

Yeah.

Why you wanna step out? That's why the enemy of like to take that step, to take that journey is to say, I'm gonna leave that behind. I'm gonna leave good. So that I'm going to pursue great. But when you do that, you have to take a step back to take 10 steps forward. So it's a kind of very hard choice to do it. My advice to people when they go, and I know maybe we have a different journey within this, but start a side hustle. At least this is my thing because you got to learn. Especially when you are in corporate, at least to the people, I'm speaking to the people similar to my journey. Step out because working on the business is different than working inside the business.

Correct.

Being a great salesperson, being a great marketeer, being a great— it doesn't— like there's a huge difference between being successful here and then go work on the business.

Yeah.

So it's completely two different things. So stepping out, and I feel for this, it's kind of like you are inside the room and instead of, you know, knock off everything and go, you start like, I see a door.

Yeah.

Okay, every day I'm gonna step out.

Yeah.

Inside that door and I'm gonna go to the— I venture to the jungle.

Yeah.

And I'll come back. It's kind of like, or I go to the ocean and I swim to the ocean.

Yeah.

And you kind of like testing yourself. You're building that skill. At one point you will know that this is not enough and you cannot actually learn the biggest skill and you have to do— but at least, you know, this element to see, like to go into the ocean and start knowing, oh my God, This is not similar. The swimming pool, swimming at the swimming pool and swimming in the ocean is completely 2 different things.

Yeah.

You got to try this. So that's kind of like, you know, my journey. So I started that side hustle.

For a couple of years, right? For a couple of years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hired people and I had a good team and we grew. We had more than 14 people.

Yeah.

But it was eventually a side hustle. Yes.

You were one step here and one step there, right?

That's correct.

Yeah, and I think what you're saying, Mahmoud, just not to interrupt you, but I think it's such great advice because also there is an idea of what entrepreneurship is and running your own thing in your head versus the reality of it. So starting a side hustle is probably one of the greatest things you can do just to get a feel for it. Because sometimes you might think you want to be an entrepreneur, but actually it's not for you, right? It can be for you, but it might be like, no, actually I'm not. The type of person to run the business. I like to be a part of the business, right? It's different running a business, a whole entire company, versus having a role within the organization, right? And I think that's why you say that shifting from corporate to entrepreneurship and starting your own is always good to start to have the side hustle. One thing you said that was golden, Mamoon, was around value. And I want to touch on that a little bit if you don't mind, because I feel this is what I see on a day in and day out with the senior people that I work with. They look for purpose, they look for value that they feel that they're not getting through their work, through their career. And with AI coming into perspective into the modern world today, what we're noticing is that a lot of people, they're going to lose, no longer have their job, and they tied their value or they tied their purpose to their company, to what they're doing in order organization. And in reality, that's the missing link, I feel. So when someone is seeking something else, usually it's because they feel that they're not adding value to what they're doing in the world, in the corporate world, or whatever they're doing, the job. So do you feel that value and purpose is important to step into the world of entrepreneurship and to start that hero's journey in that perspective? Do you think that there's an important Aspect to that?

I think that is something that everybody should think about every day. What value they drive and being useful. And I don't think that is the the the the answer is black and white. Like I should go leave corporate or leave my job and just go all in. I don't think that. I think eventually, but you need to name the name of the game you're playing. So eventually, when you wanted to step into anything in life, you gotta build certain skills, correct? And there is skills in corporate that is transferable. Yeah, and there is mindset that is maybe you know that is I would I would say it is destructive to being an entrepreneur. Yeah, so you got to know what is the game you're playing and what you're you know. So when you define the name of the game, so I'm here to build this X Y skills, you see, and I'm doing the side hustle to build X Y skills and this kind of mindset. So naming the name of the game is extremely important. So. To drive things like, I hate my job and I don't like this, it's really not a good life, correct? Like, nobody wants to live that life. But yeah, so— And I call this, there's a beautiful thing that, you know, and I think that is one of the biggest lessons I'm learning now is to line up the dominoes.

Yeah.

So don't think, like, line up the dominoes. Start where you are. And when you line up the dominoes, and this is something I struggle with so much, You got to start small. So start like, okay, I'm here now. What is the thing I can learn in this place that will help me on knocking the next domino and then knocking the next domino? But at least you need to see inside a vision, like there is a big domino that one day, one day, and that's actually what you should define it. You say, one day I will crack that domino, whatever that is. So that excites you. Then you drive from that bigger domino. You say in three years, what domino I need to knock off so that I can knock off the bigger domino?

Yeah.

Then you you state that. Yeah. And then you coming back and you say what is in the one year? That one is the one thing that if I do this year, I knock off this domino. That will help me knock off the three years domino. Help me knock off the five years domino. And then you come back. Then you come. To a monthly exercise, and you come to a weekly exercise. Yeah. And if you are obsessed like me, you will do it as a daily exercise. You come in and say, "What is the one thing that if I achieve today, it will be enough of the one week domino? It will be enough of the one month domino? It will be enough of the one year domino?" You see. So what happens now? What you do today is become useful.

Yes.

It's become adding value, and you're not losing sight of of your vision. But if you keep like I don't like this. I just have this vision. I want to be a bit— I want to build a $1 billion company. Yeah, but today you are, you know, so that what will happen with you, it will drive your energy extremely down. You'll have a, you know, so I think this lining up the domino, it's one of the best framework that I've done. And I think everybody should like— not everybody, but when I advise somebody, yes, I say like do that.

Yeah.

And regardless, like, if you don't have a vision for a very long term, it's all right. Like, what do you see? What far away you can see? Maybe you can't see far away. I just want to be a consultant. Just, you know, whatever you can see.

Yes.

Line it up and then work backwards.

Yeah. The gap, the gap, the gap between that vision and where you are today, work it backwards of the milestones you're referring to, brother. Like the milestones of making sure that you're also— I think what you're sharing is so valuable because in a way it takes away from the sense of overwhelm and pressure.

That's correct.

So, and it also aligns your focus. I mean, you say things to me sometimes off camera, Sam, make sure you're not doing too much of so many things because you leak your energy, right? You always say otherwise you move slowly nowhere. So the best way is to just align your focus towards the vision. But what is the low-hanging fruit? What's the next thing that you can achieve that will take you to the next step, which is aligning the dominoes or knocking the dominoes, as you're saying. Right.

So, so, so, so in this, Sam, people wanted to have purpose. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. So if I keep thinking about purpose is something far away from the future and what I'm doing now, it's like I just something I just want to get rid of.

Yes.

It's not a good mindset. It's not a good something to live with.

Yeah.

But if you reverse that, you say, okay, I see my vision.

Yes.

But now I need to bring it down all the way now to today.

Yeah.

What today I can do?

Yeah.

Then I know while I'm doing this, yes, I'm actually stacking into that 5 years goal.

Yeah.

It doesn't have to be 100% that you're doing. Can be 20%, can be 10%, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

But don't make it zero.

Yes.

Because anything multiplied by zero is a zero.

Yeah, you're right.

Simple equation.

Yeah.

If you— if it's 10% at one day, it's compound and it will start, you know, growing and growing. And there's a very beautiful book on this called Atomic Habits. That's one of the A few books, like I read maybe 5 times. It's super awesome with this because you don't rise to the level of your goals.

Yes.

You fall to the level of your systems.

Yes.

So how can I, like, I want to have a big goal, but then I need to bring it down here today, here and now.

Yes.

Of where I am, that I can do something. And regardless what's your job, regardless what, how much bad your job is, doesn't matter because eventually you have worked 40 hours in that job.

Yes.

You work 50 hours, whatever amount. You still have 10 hours you can put into that vision that you've got, correct?

Yes.

And as long as you are doing this, eventually you will feel that sense of like, I have a purposeful life. I am walking the path towards that goal. And reflecting back to the hero journey, eventually in the hero journey, the thing that I didn't mention is 2 journeys. There is a journey in the outside that people see. But there is a journey in the inside, the inner world, the inner world, and the inner world. Eventually you will find as you start going that the air journey outside is just a manipulation for you to uncover the person within you. It's not about achieving the goal; it's about the person you become who achieve that goal.

The person you become to achieve that goal—that's so true.

There is people they put up a sport goal, and there's put up a financial goal. There is people put up. Whatever goal you put in, that's the game that will help you to overcome yourself and discover new things and realize yourself. So the outside goal become not the goal, but it's just to keep you focused, is to give you a laser focus, to give you purpose, to attract people towards you. Because people want— when you want to attract the team, you want to give them, you know, it's not—

Yes.

You want to give them a goal. So I think that was super like this. This framework and this thinking is super valuable in a thinking that you think eventually because the person you become, yeah, it's always gonna stay with you. Yeah, and it's always gonna grow with you. Yeah, so there is no the goal. You know, you you the goal becomes secondary in a way. So important, but it becomes secondary.

I agree to what you're saying, Mahmoud, and I mean for me. What I would like to pose a question is, is do you think that the inner world is a priority prior to everything else? Meaning, meaning, I mean, for what I see, at least in my model of the world, I feel that it is super important to have honest reflection of the inner world that we have inside of us, right? The inner self-perception, the self-belief, the self-trust that we're able to pursue and take those steps in that direction. And if there's misalignment inside, I feel that It will reflect outside of you the misalignment, right? And I think I think the biggest teacher in our in our in our in our journey as a as a everyone like I said everyone has a hero's journey but the biggest teacher is is what what's being reflected outside of us, right? What are the the challenges the patterns the things that we see that I feel that sometimes it's always a calling to go inward and go what do I need to overcome within me to be able to shift that and and start to see change outside of me. So do you feel that that is also true to, to your, to your experience? Do you feel that there is a lot of inner work that needs to take place, um, in order for us to pursue what we're meant to be pursuing in life? Um, because I find, again, again, I just speak from my experience, my own journey, um, which I had to overcome a lot within my own experience internally, but also with the people I work with, you know, the, the clients and students I work with, is that there's always this layers that you have to break through, like, and a lot of it is driven by fear. A lot of it is driven by conditioning. A lot of it is driven by a world that actually always feeds us information that there's not enough, it's too hard, stay in your lane, um, and you're unable to, you know, who do you think you are to succeed? You know what I mean?

Yes.

And, and I, I sometimes feel, I, I mean, for me at least, is like I try and make sure that I'm differentiating between, and I want you to touch on this, between the ego Yeah. And the truth of who we are, you know, like, as in, as in, A, first of all, my first question— sorry, it's a loaded question— but A, is it true to you that the inner world is as important as what's happening outside of you and the inner work that you do? Because I know you've done a lot of inner work. In fact, you've been inspiring me myself, and we'll touch on something shortly in terms of— we had a— we had— we both had a very powerful, extremely powerful inner world experience with plant medicine, which I— which we're gonna— which we're gonna share shortly. But Before we get into that, Mahmoud, what's your thoughts on that dynamic?

Well, Sam, I'll tell you a contrary view on this. And see, when I was growing up, and you and I, we are kids, we knew each other, we came from a very hard place. And for people, maybe they're listening from Jordan, we came from Zarqa, from a place called Wadi al-Hajar. And it's a very tough place. We love the people, we love doing, and we respect, and I come Kind of like at one point I was so angry from that history, and then I made peace with it. Then I fall in love with it, and I have a strong root, I would say. Yeah, but it was a very long journey to get there. Yeah, but it was a very tough place, and I'm so proud of you as well. Like you can hear from where you and I that we know where we've been. Yeah. Now when I was growing up, and when I getting into the inner work journey. I some I had I I was so angry. I was a very angry person, and I didn't know what to do with that anger. I was clueless why I'm angry. I was just was angry. Wow! Was angry from the world. I was angry from everybody. I was like you know people who work with me at the beginning. You see this guy is so smart but so angry. Like I was really angry.

You had that energy, that anger, resentful energy. I I have.

I have whatever you want to call. I was resentful. I hated the world. I was you know I I was really black. I was dark. Okay. You know you and I we this at that time you we went our separate path. Yeah yeah. We but then when I start working on doing the inner work, so during that time I didn't know where to put that level of energy and entrepreneurship in my mind. Was not part of the game at all. I don't know why. Like it was like it's other people. Yeah. The ultimate goal was like you do well in university, you go work in a corporate, then you start traveling the world, you got a high base salary, and so on and so forth. That was the dream. And when I start working in the inner work, at one point, maybe you know, I think maybe five years back, I was looking at the research. Was shocking to me. The research, Sam, they studied the most successful people. And when they want to study the most successful people, they actually didn't come with any hypothesis. They just want to see what makes these, what trait makes the successful people. They find you 3 traits. You will be shocked from the trait now. Trait number 1, superior complexity. Superior complexity. Wow. The people, the very successful people, they think they are better than others. Now, a lot of people now, they will hear this say, oh my God, this is But let me continue why this is so important. Now, superior complexity was number one. Number 2, crippling insecurity. They had within them a crippling insecurity. I'm not worthy. They wanted to fill a gap.

Mm-hmm.

The 3rd thing was focus. Now remove any of these features. If you have superior complexity and you have crippling insecurity without focus, you'll be crazy. If you have superior complexity and you have focus, but you do not have insecurity, you might be good. So if you have any of the two and you just bundle them, you will get a different person, people who go astray doing something. Why, Sam, this was like— And I was like, oh my God, I was always fighting that dragon within me. I wanted to tune that dragon. And I find out, and this is where the punchline I'm going to say, because you talked about it, like whatever fuel you have today, whatever that is, anger from whatever fuel you've got, just put it on what you want to achieve. Have a proper goal and have a focus toward that goal and make it a good goal. Don't make it an idiot goal.

Of course.

Make it a good goal. and imbue that fuel in. Now, when you start the journey, you realize you cannot keep surviving on this fuel. You see, that's the challenge. Like, this fuel is temporary, is good temporary, but it will actually burn you aside. It will kill you if you keep relying on that fuel. But see the initiation point, this initial point that you need to get to, to create momentum, to reverse inertia.

Yes.

These points, use whatever fuel you've got. It's anger, it's resentment, is whatever that is. At least in my case, it was anger. Yes. And I wish, and I've seen a guy who I respect so much and I like so much, I follow so much and is part of a lot of things he do is Alex Hormozi. And maybe a lot of people, they know in the sales and marketing domain. And Alex actually, when he was speaking about his journey and he talk about his anger, He had a bath of entrepreneurship, and some for a certain reason. Like I believe if I have that as a possibility in my life at that time, and I pour my anger into that element, it would have been a different game. Yeah. But I didn't know what to do with it, so I start pouring it inside the corporate. Now inside the corporate, I become a disturbance. You know, I like I don't like the way we do this. You know, we have to change the way we do. No, you gotta when you it wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. Yeah. But But no, I was disturbing the people because people want me to do my job. Yes. And I wanted to do something bigger and I wanted to do— and it's not something on their fault. Like, yeah, I'm signed up for this, correct? That's the game I'm playing. So I, I got— you gotta respect that game in a way. Yeah, yeah. When you are inside that game. So, um, about the superior complexity, because a lot of people think like, oh my God, like, you superior complexity. See, and I had it all my life. See, superior complexity is not about being arrogant on people. And unfortunately, if you have the superior complexity, the ego is very smart. We play the game that you see you not be a humble person, but any proper leader gotta humble themselves, correct? Yeah. But what is the game? The game is if you are sitting inside a very big room, why it make a lot of sense to me, and there's so many people, there is a challenge, and everybody say, oh, we cannot do it. If you think you're better than everyone, you will actually go do it. That's the definition of the hero, correct? That hero, yes, think I can do it. Yes. You know, and sometimes you need to feel I am better than these. Now when you say I'm better, I'm not talking about at the spirit level. Yes, we are equal at the spirit level. Yes, but at the ego level, you get to— there is people better than others. Yeah, we are different levels. There is people who play at a complete different level. 100%. As an entrepreneur, you and I will play at certain levels now, and you know, Elon Musk play on a different level and other So you got to realize there is this element of individuality that what makes it interesting. And that integration between the spirit and the ego is what is, at least to me, what I start making as a very important goal in what we do, or at least of what I do to realize that. So inner work, extremely important.

Yes.

But wherever you are, Don't wait in that element. And when I say don't wait, I'm saying just be useful. Yes, be useful. Have a goal. Yeah, reverse it. Line up the domino. Come here and say today. Yeah, whatever that is, I'm gonna do something. Yeah, that is will I'll start cracking myself. Yeah, into becoming that person I wanted to become who can achieve that goal. So yeah, I think you know I hope that that was the first part of the question. I don't know.

Yeah, no, you you addressed both actually. For me, what What's interesting what you're saying, Mahmoud, is basically just to summarize, is that even if you have someone that has— if you're someone that has some form of insecurity, the ability is to channel that insecurity in a positive way towards creating momentum in your life, right? Absolutely. The second thing what I would like to share with you, Mahmoud, and maybe this is something because obviously I've been in this, in this, uh, my, my model of the world working with high achievers, I have picked up a very interesting and I'm going to you know, share this with you. But mostly I would say, and without exaggeration, probably 90% of the high achievers I've worked with, okay, and I'm talking really high achievers, being it, uh, you know, multi-millionaires in trading or in other leadership roles or, or even entrepreneurs, the, the thing that I pick up, which, which is, which is indirectly why they come to me, is that what got them to where they are and what got them to the level of achievement that they were is because they had an insecurity, which is I'm not good enough, or is not good enough. Okay, so I'm not good enough, or that's not good enough. Now when they come to me, it becomes a little bit tiring after some time, right? Especially if you're at a specific advanced level. Why? Is because it robs you from the satisfaction of where you are in the journey.

That's right.

Right. So what I found out is what I've been doing a lot with high achievers is I've been going— and there's a fear of letting go of that insecurity. Let me explain. The fear of letting go of that insecurity is because it served them so much in their life that they don't want to let go of. And what I do is I say, it doesn't mean if you let go of this complexity of it's not enough, it's not good enough, I can do better, I can do better, I can do better, to change it to completely a different fuel, which is, you know, I actually love myself and I want more for myself and for my family and I want to achieve, but taking it from a perspective of being satisfied with yourself Not means that satisfaction means that I am complete. I'm I'm just gonna be blazey and just not do anything. No, is that you actually become even more hungry because you want to succeed for you, not to succeed for the ego or for the for for showing off or comparing yourself to the to the rest of the world. And and and like I said, I agree with what you're saying, Mamun. Whatever fuel it is in the beginning, go for it. However, my only comment to what you were saying is that. Within that journey, there will come a time where you would need to change that fuel purely because if you don't, it becomes empty, the process. It becomes none. No matter where you are in that beautiful journey, because we're supposed to enjoy the journey, you want some form of satisfaction. You want to be able to stop, pause, look back, and look how far you have come, right, Mahmoud? And I think that, that for me is, is super, super important for for a healthy journey. And yes, you can hack the system by what you said, but I think adding to that and being conscious about being gentle on yourself along the way to not burn out. And I had a very interesting guest who I think you both would be amazing to have a conversation with, who's also in the AI, because I want to touch on AI with you for a moment, but He was saying to me that most entrepreneurs fail is because they are so burnt out prior to actually doing the launch or doing things. So they burn themselves out so much that when they get to the stage, which is most important for success, they're worn out. And usually it's because of the elements we spoke about. So how important is it for you as an entrepreneur today? And I know you've been doing it for some time, but now like fully, fully, fully, how important is it for you to find that balance in your life? To make sure that you don't get burned out, Mahmoud. And what are the what are the practical things you do on a day-to-day basis that almost keeps you in check, where you're not you know you're not burning your fuel to a degree where you just can't can't move forward? Because I know you have such great energy in you, brother. But also, I'm sure there's a way where you need to recharge and fill it up. So what do you do in that perspective?

See, I have a contrarian view on these things, and I know I'm doing a lot of contrarian. No, it's fine. I think because the I think that is the I call it that way. I call it, you know, God is in the paradox. And like you go in, if you wanna realize, you know, the bigger meaning of things, you gotta go to a paradox. Why is that? Because the definition of the paradox that the mind cannot understand the paradox. So when you cannot understand a paradox, a paradox, for example, I say, if you want people to like you, you need to stop, you know, caring about people to like you. But if I stop caring, it's a paradox. Yes. You cannot realize it at the mind level, so you need a different intelligence to understand. Yes. That's what I say, God is the paradox, because you need a different intelligence to realize that. I am not a person— I believe balance is absolutely necessary, but do not optimize for balance. Okay. Why I'm saying this? Because everybody's— they need— everybody, they have their own balance. It's not something you gotta learn from. You can learn from— yeah, yeah, yeah. At Let me speak about my journey because it's very hard. Like, I'm very careful. I know telling people what they should do, it's not my place. Like, I really, I can only speak about my journey.

Yeah, you speak about yourself.

So I'll tell you about my journey. I believe that you go in bursts. That's the achievable balance. You optimize at a longer, not in a daily basis. You expand the time horizon and then you start saying, okay, I'm do a balance in whatever you can sustain, whatever good for you. Because that is about the game is momentum, inertia. Like when you understand these concepts, and I say there is 4 concepts in physics that when you apply in life is so important. And number 1 is inertia, number 2 is momentum, number 3 is leverage, and number 4 is, I forgot number 4. But when you understand these, Yeah. It will help you to optimize things in a complete different level. So the way I do it, I expand my time horizon. So for example, I'll tell you that in maybe a simple thing.

Yeah.

Even at the food level, I like to go feast and fast. So there is, I fast for past 5 years, I daily fast. 48 hours continuously, 40 hours, sorry, continuously every week. Every month I do 3 days, I do 68 hours, but I fast as well. I feast, sorry. I feast as well. So this level, I felt it is actually, it's actually by research as well, stressor make you stronger. Stressor make you live longer. That the most activation of Longevity genes is actually when you go in a short-term stress. Yeah. So the short term, you define the short term. How much you can sustain? Is it a day and you have to go wine out in the evening? Yeah. Is it a week? Is it a month? Is it? You gotta know yourself.

Yeah.

Now I think it's always good to have a daily routine, at least for me. I go nuts if I don't have it. But I think like as I said, Alex Hormozi doesn't. And actually he. He laugh about the people who don't do it. That doesn't make it right. But I'm saying, like, when you play, you gotta understand yourself and understand, you know, that is, this might be a weakness when you say, I need that. But you're gonna acknowledge this within you.

Yeah.

I meditate daily. There is no, like, every other, if I miss tomorrow, I have the rule of don't miss it twice. And thus I took it from the book Atomic Habit. Yeah. And I think a lot of people miss that. Like, this is a very beautiful rule because when you apply it in your life, a lot of people, like, you do the thing and you, you are in a diet, then like you break, and then oh my God, like, then you— it's downhill from there. Yes. You don't reverse momentum. Yes. And that's where the momentum comes in. Yes. So, but when you say I'm not gonna miss it twice, so when you do it today, tomorrow your top is not to miss this. So you reverse momentum.

Yeah, 100%.

And so you keep reversing that momentum because you have it on the positive side. And yeah, the last rule I wanted to talk about was compounding, how to compound.

Yes.

Because compounding is a big element in life. So compounding, if I'm going to keep doing something for a while, then I keep rewinding, keep— you need to realize that you're going to realize your goal is a bigger time horizon.

Yeah.

How much you can put up an energy on something to break, to get this inertia and you build up momentum and you go against that, you go with that momentum.

Yes.

And you need to know when to stop, when to cool down. And that's, I think it's a completely personal thing. But yeah, in my journey, as I told you, being with family, I'm fully present. That's part of my purpose. But my family is very understanding. I spend a lot of time working. I work more than 50 hours a week. I'm not very good. I love to work. So it's kind of like if you ask me, what makes you happy? I like to do it. I like to read. I like to work. I like to learn. But meditation, something I do 20 minutes daily. I do, believe it or not, I do at minimum 2-minute yoga.

Nice.

Just to keep it, to keep the habit. And that's the other rule I like from Atomic Habits is And there is the beauty about not making it zero.

Yes.

Don't optimize. As long as it is there. And I'm telling you, man, my back, my body shape, it's better than when I was even in my 20s. And I regard a big part of that, of doing this 2-minute yoga at least. I optimize it, but I've been doing it for a very long time.

Yeah. So combine.

Some days I do it 20 minutes, I do it 1 hour, I do correct. Yeah, for the daily thing, I finish meditation, I just go and I do the basic, you know, uh, thing, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, and that's it. Um, uh, breathing is a big portion as well to, to, uh, to learn this. Um, then the regular thing, you know.

Yeah, I mean, I've learned so much from you on, you know, over the years, you know, on in terms of the supplementation, because I know you have a— you've also studied nutrition background you have. You were the one that introduced me to DNA testing as well. So there's so much, your wealth of knowledge, and I think we could go on and on in this show. And I realize we've already done an hour, but I wanna just for the, just to, I might even make this part 1 and part 2 'cause it's such a great conversation. But I just wanna touch and going back to the hero's journey, okay?

Yeah.

You know what happened to us as we got to, coincidentally, after 20-odd years of, you know, disembarking. For those of you who don't know a bit about my background, so I was born in Dubai and then I moved to Jordan, and that's where we were in the same neighborhood, and that's how we got to know each other, literally in the same neighborhood. It was a very rough neighborhood. It was a tough period in my life, a couple of years at the high school level. And then I left, and then, you know, I left early at the age of 18, and Mahmoud carried on his journey, and then he left as well, and then started his journey around the Gulf and around the world. One thing that was interesting is I believe in synchronicity, and I feel that synchronicity is also a very powerful form of abundance. You know, when you meet the right people at the right time in the right place, it's not a coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences. 20 years later, I'm at a gym and you walk in, and I didn't even recognize you, Mahmoud, because when I left Jordan at the time, you were overweight, if you remember. And, you know, you came in, you were lean, and you were— felt— you felt like you were taller and you were more present. And you were like, you know, Sam, or Hussam even. You called me my full name, and no one calls me my full name because no one hardly knows my full name is Hussam, right? So you went like— and I looked down, I'm who's this person? You're like, man, it's Ma'mun. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, how's that journey? And then obviously we became reconnected and family friendships, etc. And then throughout the experience of, of developing and reconnecting our friendship and our brotherhood, we had this opportunity that came to us, um, to a non-disclosed place abroad, or to, uh, to do a plant medicine journey. And we both had that calling at the same time. And what's interesting about that experience, Mahmoud, is when we had that experience, we both had what is known as the hero's dose, the hero's journey, which is just for you guys know, it's about above 6 grams of psilocybin. And you go into a meditative state for 9 hours. And it felt in that experience that a lot of things happened, of course, that we can't really unpack right now. But one of the things that I remember that I found fascinating, and I'll never forget this for the rest of my life, is that when we were in that experience, we had a full-on conversation, and that conversation happened telepathically. And, um, what was interesting is that after we came back from this, from the ceremony, and we had like a person that was holding space, it was done in a very professional manner. And we were back on our journey back, back to, to Dubai. We started having the conversation like, Mamoon, do you remember this moment when I asked this and you looked at me and you said that? I'm like, man, we had a full-on conversation in a telepathic manner, which for me was really, really powerful. But also it, it showed that there is some truth to the inner world and outer world experience, and also to what we don't see with our, with our senses. And I wanted to just ask you, because a lot happened in that experience, what was the most profound thing for you to take away from that experience, Mahmoud, that has potentially helped you in where you are today in your, in your, in your journey, um, especially now stepping into the unknown? And to be honest, the unknown is more known than we think, but it is unknown because we don't see it with our senses. But what is that moment in time experience? Because for me, it added more courage. It's just to, just to add, for me, it added more courage. For me, it built more self-belief, and it also took away a lot of fear and doubt from, from my— from me, to be honest with you.

Yeah.

Um, but it also, it's also taught me that, that there was no— there was, there was no such thing as a coincidence, and we were meant to be in that experience. From 2 young boys that didn't know anything much about the world to being on the other side of the, of the world to having such an experience. And I don't take that lightly. I really think there is more So what's your take on that? How has that helped you integrate and become the man that you are today? 'Cause it is a life-changing experience. Would you agree? It's a life-changing experience.

Well, first, Sam, before I go into this, I actually, to the synchronicity point, let's link it back to the hero journey. In the hero journey, when you step into the unknown, actually one of the first things you face is a helper, helpers, or a guide. That's at least what's mentioned. And I took my helpers and guys in a complete different way. But there is a saying like when the teacher is ready, the student is ready, the teacher, the master appears.

Correct. The teacher.

And I think you've been a teacher for me. So have you, man.

So have you. Well, honestly.

Yeah. And that is, and you've been a helper. And I think there's something beautiful about coming from the same root because see, eventually when I, for a very long time, I was so, one of the biggest anger was for me is to look to other successful people and saying like, this guy drop out and they've done this and I'm smarter or whatever that is. And then when you start knowing that eventually, when I started my journey from that truth, it's a completely different journey. My ego's different. What is in my side different than whomever you look up to. These guys are from a different place. So when you and I met and have this root, eventually, like we have almost the same root.

Yes.

Coming from the same background.

Yes.

So many, we resonate with each other.

Of course.

So that level of energy, eventually, when you have people in your life who resonate with you at deep level, because we are coming from the same place, correct? 100%. It's really profound and it's helped lift the energy, you know, for sure. So I think there is no coincidence down there. I believe that. And I think it makes a lot of sense to that. Back to the plant medicine experience. It was so beautiful experience. All right, so I'll tell you something very interesting about it. I'll tell you before I go into this, I love philosophy so much. I love Plato. And Plato, it has a framework that helps me a great deal in my life. And Plato has a writing about something called Plato's Cave.

Yes.

It's an awesome framework. The framework says, if you are sitting in a cave and we are chained and you are looking at the wall, like this wall, and there is puppeteers moving the puppets and we are watching the wall, we're chained, we are looking, That way. Then all of a sudden, Sam finds himself unchained, and then he looks outside like, "Oh my God! These are puppeteers, and this is not real. These shadows." And then Sam now has a choice. I I need to exit. I want to exit the the cave. So you gotta let go of that, and you start exiting that cave. When you exiting that cave, you through the journey, da da da. Then you go outside, and when you go outside, you will see a world. Okay, now I want you to imagine, Sam, this with me. Yeah, yeah. So you want outside the world. You've seen the trees, you've seen the, the rivers, the water, and universe. You don't have a vocabulary to explain what does it mean. Yeah, right. So now Sam has a decision to start there or to come back. And that's why Plato wrote it about Socrates, because Socrates, he saw the outside world and he wanted to bring it to People to realize. Now the challenge for Socrates, he doesn't, he didn't have the vocabulary. And nobody has, by the way, none. Like, it's because it's not in the language. That's where the paradox is.

Yeah.

There's no, and I want you to imagine this. Imagine, Sam, you went there, you come back, you come to these people, no vocabulary to explain what you saw.

Yeah.

And I want to challenge you. I wanna maybe a challenge for the audience. Try to explain what a tree is to the people. What a green is to the people, what the water is to the people. They never saw it.

Yeah.

Or a river in a way.

Yeah.

So you have no vocabulary for it. So how you will make these people see what you saw?

Yeah.

What is the way? If you keep talking about it, you keep explaining it, you keep, you know, there's no way to explain it. And this is to the hero journey. One of the elements that Joseph Campbell talk about, that he's talk about the truth is in mythology. Mythology carry a higher truth than I tell you the lesson. If I tell you this versus you see a mythology about The Matrix, for example, or about, you know, whatever like mythology you, but that's for some modern example, it's actually explain a higher truth than if I come tell you, the truth as it is, correct? Or try to put it in that wording, which is there is nowhere to explore.

Yeah.

So, but the beauty of— I know it's a tangent, but it's a very awesome thing because if you think about it, you can think about this as an outside thing.

Yeah.

That a hero go in, but you can think it as an inside thing.

Exactly.

Because you have an idea that wanted to go explore this, but all the personas within you is bullying you. Like, say, sit down here. And the continuation of the Plato cave is that the guy decided to come back. And they came back and he told the people, guys, this is what you see is not the truth. And we gotta get out. Let me show you there's a different world down there. Like these are puppets. What happens that these people killed him.

They killed him, eh? They killed him.

Oh yeah, yeah. That's why, because they killed Socrates. And Socrates actually chose this because they told him exile or death and he chose death. So the beautiful thing about this is that resemble when you have a courageous idea, there's so many personas within you, this conditioning. It's like, will you? Like, no, you want to kill that idea. Similarly, look at it from a bigger perspective as an outsider. And you can think about puppeteers like so many things, the KPIs at your work, the things you look at, how you define success. So true. So the plant medicine experience is kind of like you took something and you are inside that cave and all of a sudden, something pull you out of the cave.

Yes.

It pumped you up and you go there, you see the truth and—

You come back in.

You come back in.

How do you explain that?

And now you cannot explain it, but it was so much of a dose. So that's the best way because it's not, you didn't walk a path.

Yes.

You just took something. The earth spoke with you. It shows you something, whatever that you're calling it is. Yeah. But you it was a snap for you. So I think it's so much you like regardless how much word. And by the way, this is why people attract to poetry and these kind of words because yes, it's kind of like a way to explain that thinking. Yes. But there is no word to describe it, man. There is something like the only way. Yeah. Is gone like. You, you gotta try it yourself.

You have to try it yourself. You're right.

Everybody will have their own different journey.

Yeah.

But it's just, you gotta realize if it's— if you tune into it.

Yes.

If you feel the, the eject.

Yes.

You know, and some people, they take it, they're not ready for it.

Yes.

They go somewhere and like, oh, they're not gonna see.

Yes.

You know, and there's some people experience bad journeys and so on and so forth. You're gonna respect the journey and have the right elements. Uh, but yeah, it's a, it's a trip to that.

I understand, to, to, to, to, to, to that special place. I just found it fascinating that when I look back at that experience is that, you know, it was, it was meant to be both of us from, you know what I mean? Like, like out of everyone in the world, that every, all my experiences and every person I've ever knew, it was, it was you to experience that together as, as our first plant medicine experience. And And, uh, and, and I, and I walked away really feeling so much more at peace in a way of what, what, what is, and trusted the process a bit more. But also, like you said, I think if you remember, it's like it literally came to us. It's like we were initiated by it. It wasn't something we were looking for. It literally came to us. And you're like, you feel it? You feel it? Yes, I'm ready. I'm ready. Okay, let's just, let's, let's just attempt and let's go for it. So everything aligned. And I think that's the message for you guys, is You have to be in tuned and to be aware of all these initiations that comes in your path to step into your full hero's journey, to step into the calling. And I think it's important to sometimes do these practices like Mamoon says, like you know your meditation or quieting the brain so you can listen to those and be be aware of it. Mamoon, like I said, we can go on for hours. I just want to take an opportunity to say thank you so much, brother, for. Sharing all your value, your knowledge, and I want to wish you such a, you know, all the very best with what you're creating with, with, um, with your organization. And if you don't mind, this is how I want to wrap up. I just want you to give a quick encompass of what you are doing at the current, uh, beautiful journey in terms of MS Orchestra and how you are supporting those in the, in, in your greater mission, um, so that people can find you people that want to interest, because I'm going to put down the details as well, because I find it fascinating how you're bridging the gap of AI and entrepreneurship and sales and marketing. And I know you want to crack that code and you are on the path to cracking it. But if you don't mind just giving a quick summary of that, brother, so people understand the mission you are on today. And I know you've been on it for some time now, but what you're really trying to make an impact in this world in that positive way.

I've been working in AI for 10 years, not like the hype of the AI, since I think when they were educating AI to speak, which was natural language processing at that time. So it's been quite a journey for me to work with it. But the moment AI came into this boom at that time, that was the exact time where I started my company. And I think the best way to think about AI, at least to me, is AI, to think about it as an individual. Because if you think about it as a technology, you will actually miss the point of so many things. And I know there's so much controversial, but at least will help you understand the world in a different way, or at least the world of AI in a different world. To not go so much on that tangent, but my journey was 18, 19 years of sales. A lot of people misunderstand what sales is. I believe sales is about helping people make a decision. I think about if you believe of that value, and I want, if I believe, like if I want to help Sam to make a decision towards something, that this coffee is the best coffee.

Yeah.

I got to believe it's the best coffee. If I don't believe it's the best coffee for Sam, then I'm frauding you. And I think that was so much understood. And I've been through a journey till I understand that. So that is the first element, that the misunderstanding of this, how you multiply and make it a reach and change some mindset with it. But at the same time, what is the skillset and the elements you need to build towards that? Now, AI, as I said, I think that's required a different conversation to see how things changing in the world and why it's so much important even to the consciousness level and so many things.

Yes.

And changing the way governments run and the cycle of history, you and I talk about it. Like the 5,000-year cycle. So it wasn't a small change for me. It was like I saw a cycle. We are at the top of a 5,000-year cycle, a 1,000-year cycle, a 100-year cycle. And the cycle, just for the audience, is the cycle, it looks like as we have a daily cycle, days and night, as we have the season cycle, 4-season cycle, a yearly cycle, there is a bigger cycle. Mm-hmm. We're living in an awesome time where we have so much bigger cycles. We are living at the top of a 5,000-year cycle. The Mayans talk about it. You know, we are, which is, they call it the new world, the death of an old world, a new world. We are living of what's of a 1,000-year cycle being documented by others. And it's in a nice book called Individual Sovereignty or Sovereign Individual. And there's a 100-year cycle. Ibn Khaldun talk about this and recent and a historian talk about this as well. So we're living in a very interesting— so this is for me not only just as a smaller thing, it's kind of like part of so many things meeting at the same time. And I said, okay, I think that's really dry. I want to drive a lot of value out of this. And I think sometimes it's hard to, because so many talk about it and everybody now is an AI company in a way.

Yeah, yeah.

And rightfully so in a way. But eventually, the mission we are in is to help because I believe that when you are in an entrepreneurship journey, you get to make the stuff and you get to sell it. But when we talk about sales, we talk about it from the right mindset. I want to help people make a decision towards what I'm creating. And I need to believe in the value that I'm creating. The moment these combine, You got to have multipliers to let people know about you and subscribe to that journey and buy from you eventually. That's what sales is. So I believe sales is a moral, excellent thing if you have the right belief about the value you are creating. And we're leveraging AI across all what we're doing. We are automating and infusing AI across everything we do. And I believe that AI eventually will help us grow. And that's what I'm seeing with my team. All the jobs they don't like to do, AI is doing today. And I'm seeing it in my customers as well. The things that nobody likes to do is actually the AI start doing. So that is, I mean, in a way that we are leveraging AI to help people sell and let people hear about their solution. There are so many talks can go into it, but I want to keep it here. One of the things I did as well, Well, I wanted to document the journey. Yes. So I started doing my YouTube and I'm still figuring things out. But the purpose is I'm learning about how to document the journey as well. I want to document that journey, like what that journey looks like for the kids from a tougher place. Yes. Coming in along and, you know, see, like hopefully will inspire somebody or teach the skills for somebody to try this because there isn't There is good discourse for entrepreneurship, but it's coming from the US. Yes. And the US has a different mindset, has a different skill set, has a different starting point. Yes. And that's what we're missing here. To the region, starting point is different for our region, for our people. Yeah, it's different. Yeah. And the mindset we have, and I think it's not a skill set game anymore. Skills is important. Yeah. But the mindset will precede the skill set. Correct. In a way, or, you know, they play together.

Yeah, yeah.

There is a scarce, more scarcity mindset that we have. There is more, you know, dealing with a stranger mindset. There is more lesser of, we have wrong mindsets that actually put us at disadvantage.

Yes.

When you wanted to start the journey.

Yes.

You're gonna learn it as there is a skillset and this mindset that you need to bridge. So I hope, I wanna document that journey with the people of building what I'm building now, and hopefully somebody will be able to learn something from that.

Well, I'm always learning when I watch your content. It's always inspiring, and I like the fact that you're also doing it in Arabic to support the region and to support that background in particular as well, which is quite refreshing because again, your knowledge and expertise working with global corporate America companies and also transmuting that now into the region of bringing that wealth of experience and how you are creating your own empire, which is very much inspiring to witness, Mahmoud. So thank you so much, brother, for what you're doing. We're gonna link up all your details as well as the website and where people can find you. I wanna take a moment, and like I said, I know we can go for hours, myself and you, which we tend to do that off camera anyway, but I just wanna take a moment again one more time to say thank you so much, Mahmoud, for being here. I know you're a busy man. Thank you for making the time to share your knowledge, your value, and all the references you've put. It's incredible. So thank you for being here, Mahmoud. Appreciate it.

Thanks a lot, Sam. I appreciate you as well, and I enjoy every single minute of the conversation.

Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Much love and positive energy.