Welcome to our live show!

Saturday, September 26th. Hard to believe we're heading into fall, Michael. Michael, welcome to Drink Up Podcast Live. I'm so excited to have you here today. Before we get started though, if I could just go through and just name some of our sponsors would be great. And my, my dog continues to bark here at the left, so everybody's gonna hear the Australian Shepherd, the 15-year-old we were talking about earlier this morning. He's being Being very vocal, he just does this little yelp, yelp, yelp. Anyway, so our sponsors—I always have to call out Jay Williams with Freebird Water. Jay, I'm out of cans, man. I guess I could go order them online, which I'll go ahead and do. But Freebird is a water that was founded in outside of Atlanta, Georgia, and they've been blowing up. I believe they're in like Walmart, Publix. and they continue to grow pretty rapidly. So, uh, Jay, thanks for always, uh, supporting, uh, Drink Up. Uh, Alias Advising, uh, with my friend Adam Smith and co-host— he can't be here today. Adam, please get well. Uh, Michael and I are both thinking about you. You're gonna miss a good one today, brother, uh, when we get into, uh, Liquid Jazz, uh, and we talk about that. But Alias Advising Helps anything in a can go to market operationally. Like, what co-packer should I use? What formulator should I use? What type of cans? Where do I get those cans? Where do I get those labels? Adam's brilliant. And calling out Bev Assets, a company I'm part of. Alicia Vargo, if you're out there in the world, always thanks for this sponsorship. We do commercial strategy, which informs our route to market and go-to market plans, and sometimes they go into our sister company Frontline with boots on the ground. And then finally, Ryan, if you're out there with Rocks Advising, which Adam's part of as well, thank you for your continued support. It's a group of individuals which we're part of too. If a brand's going to market, you can think about like if you look at 360 degrees of everything you would need to bring a brand to market, Rocks Advisers definitely can help brands come to market. With all those things being said, Michael, how the heck did you and I find each other? And first of all, welcome to Drink Up.

Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm very excited about this. I was using a company that gave me ideas on podcasts that fit what I do. You know, I'm in the alcohol world, the wine world. I mean, I don't, I don't have a liquid product, but I do have the decanter aeration process for wine.

What, uh, so I have the decanter here, by the way. Um, we were talking about it earlier. I'm going to pull it up here in my hand here. But, uh, this is, um, first of all, I'll show the decanter. If you look at the bottom, it has these like, uh, little grooves, right?

Yeah, the steps. There's steps.

Steps. And then there's like—

If you look into, you know, if you look from the top right, and that sits on that cradle, and the— Correct. And then the process is, once you decant the wine, and we'll, you know, we'll discuss the difference between decanting and aeration, And that cradle sits on the table. And as you gently rock it back and forth for about 4 minutes, the wine gently rolls up and down those steps. So what happens is aeration is very important to red wines. They're generally very high tannins and acidity, and they have these sulfites in there. So by gently rocking it up and down those steps, with the volume we have in there, you're constantly changing the surface area of the wine. And that allows air to get into the wine in a gentle fashion.

So you're volatilizing the esters of the wine and aerating it at the end of the day to get those flavors to come out of the wine?

Correct. And tannins, you know, that's that dry feeling you get in the back of your mouth, that little bite that you get. That's the tannins that are in wine. Which are necessary for the wine to age properly. So tannins love oxygen. Yeah, those are the glasses too. Tannins love—

This is really interesting too. They have these like little grooves. I was wondering, what are those about? Like these little grooves here?

Again, that's the aeration process. We're not a swirl, we're a rock. So, you know, I have one too, obviously, and we rock. We don't swirl.

Right, so I'm gonna rock my glass like this?

Correct, and the wine's gonna roll up and down those ridges, and again, that opens it up. These are very good too for bourbons, scotches, any flavored rums or anything that has flavor. It just enhances the flavor profile. And with the bourbons, I do bourbon tastings, and it's just, it's just such a natural motion, you know, the rocking. So a lot of the bourbon tastings, they pretty much all give cigars. So people are standing around smoking a cigar and they have the bourbon in their hand and they're just standing there and they're gently rocking it. So as it rolls up and down the edges, it kind of cuts that— the alcohol taste, that alcohol smell. So now after you do that for a couple of minutes, when you nose the, the, uh, the bourbons or the scotches You get more of the flavor of the scotch. You don't get that hit of alcohol first, but you know, you get the barrel flavors, the vanillas, you know, whatever's— however they treat their bourbons, you get that flavor profile. So it's just a gentle rock. It's just a— you're just flicking your wrist back and forth and it just rolls up and down the glass. We have a distillery in our town and I went with a friend of mine. And they had a jalapeño pineapple rum that they were testing. So my friend tries it and he takes the glass and what we do too is when we rock, typical wine is a swirl and then they smell. With the rock, you just hold it under your nose and rock it. So the flavor profile just fills— but you got to practice. We recommend practicing 4 or 5 times a week.

That's amazing. So, so thank you. I know we went straight into the, the cradle. So you founded this company, Liquid Jazz. You developed this native product. And we were talking earlier about, you know, the experience, right?

Yeah.

Like you have your friends, like we were talking about beer and wine and the difference of having a beer with a friend, which is more sports, and then also having, you know, wine with friends. But I, I gotta believe that you developed this, this, this, the cradle, right? You know, look at Jack's, so that the people out there, it's more than just, just having, you know, a glass of wine and bringing the flavors out. It's more about the experience, like you're enjoying something with friends. And I always say this, I learned this, we talked about this the other day on Firebelly Marketing Podcast, is I don't think people are buying brands anymore. I think they're buying experiences. And I think what you've developed here could actually be a great experience. And I actually think if you were like Burns Steakhouse down in Tampa, Florida, right? Because everybody knows Burns and they have all the unbelievable wines and the whole bit is I think taking the staff 8 to 10 minutes to actually have this experience would be actually worth the worth it for the restaurant because if I'm going to pay you. know, for a really good wine, and what's a really good wine? You're probably paying $80 for a really good wine, right, or more?

Yeah, it was gonna go $50 to $100, right.

Right, so if you're hitting that between $50 and $100, you know what, I would like 8 minutes of the staff to give me this experience. I just spent $80 on a bottle of wine.

Correct, exactly. Yep, and as you know, being in the world, $80 at a restaurant for a bottle of wine, That profit structure is set up pretty well.

Exactly. So I think it's fair for us to actually demand more from our restaurants for that experience. So how was Liquid Jazz born?

Actually, this morning I just went down and turned my— I've been making homemade wine for 26 years. years. My friend Tony taught me how to make— his dad, actually, Ercolino, he was in his late 80s when he taught me. He came over from Italy when he was 16. And that was one of the traditions he brought with him. And he made it his entire life. And so I started making wine. And it was at his house. I went one day and they were finished pressing. You know, he was born in Italy. His wife was born in Italy. So my friend Tony, 100% Italian. So we go to his house. He said, "Oh, why don't you come over? My dad's pressing the wine tonight." So I go over, and you know the grapes are they finished fermenting. The grapes are in. They're squeezing them in the wine press. We're trying a little bit of the new wine, and obviously it's still very grapey tasting at this point. It hasn't matured at all. So we're sitting around the table. The you know the superset is out. The prosciutto is out. The cheese. Cheeses are out, olives, having a glass of wine, and I'm like, Tony, this is unbelievable. So his dad says, you can get grapes for another week, you know, because we get them during the California harvest. They're all imported, you know, not imported, but grapes shipped in from California. So he helped me on his equipment make a Zinfandel that year, and it ended up coming out really nice. It had a nice labor. So I was sharing it. I owned a store at the time, and I was sharing it with customers. And 2 of the guys are like, hey, we want to make it with you. So I went and bought used equipment. And the following year, we made it just us, which was another whole experience. We did so many things wrong, it was unbelievable. I mean, one of them— because again, I came in at the end of the process. And then when Tony's dad did it, he did all the early stuff.

Right.

So the first year we made it without them, we crushed the grapes, put them in the fermentation containers, and put the yeast in and just let it go. I go down the next morning into the area in the basement that I was doing it, and there were a billion fruit flies. I'm talking I had to walk through like this to get through the flies.

That's a business in itself in bars, by the way. You know what they do? They put either— they put like, um, Cellophane on all the bottles, or they put these cups over them to try to keep the fruit flies out of the liquor.

Yes. So these are in the big fermentation barrels. So, I mean, yeah, so I call up Tony and went, oh my God, I don't know what I did wrong. I have like a billion fruit flies. He went, gee, I wonder how they get out from under the covers. Covers? You never told me I had to cover it. And he says, oh yeah, if you don't, you're gonna have a billion fruit flies. I go, well, that's what I have. So now I have wine underneath and I have all these sticky flypaper things hanging all over the place trying to get rid of the flies. So anyway, that was the first of a ton of mistakes. But it ended up fun. And then there's a process after the primary secondary fermentation, it's called racking. And you just stick a siphon tube in the carboy and you drain off the clear liquid and you leave the sediment in the bottom and then You know, you clean out the container. And so that's something you do multiple times, and it's pretty much a cleansing process for the wine. So we— one of the guys, Kenny, that made it with me, he had a place up in Vermont. He and his wife would go skiing on the weekends. And Gary worked at a place where he worked Friday, Saturday, Sundays and had the rest of the week off. So Thursday was a good night for us to get together. So we got together and we were doing the racking. And a friend of my daughter's came to the store to buy paint my son was covering. And he said, oh, where's your dad? Down in the wine cellar. So he comes down and as we're racking, you know, you're filling your glass, filling your glass. And so he's like, oh my God, this is so much fun. Are you doing this next week? I'm like, yeah, okay. Yeah, because we had so many more bottles to do and that became a thing. So now for 26 years, I have wine night every Thursday night at my house in the wine cellar.

Outside on Thursday night? Are you racking at wine night every Thursday night too?

Nope, nope. Just when it needs. We just sit like this last week. Carlos brought a bottle of his homemade, Gary brought a bottle of his homemade, I had mine, and other people come. Some people bring beer, some bring soda, water, some don't drink at all. And we just sit around. It was beautiful night and we're sitting around the campfire and we're just talking and telling stories. And well, that's what it's just about.

It's about experiences. So, you know, if I go back to the on-premise, like a fine dining restaurant that's like Burn Steakhouse and they're selling an $80, $50 to $100 bottle of wine or more, I would think you want, you know, and I know they do decant. Have you Professor Decanter. But something like this with the rocker is part of the experience because again, it's like, wow, I, you know, I was at Burn Steakhouse and they brought this Liquid Jazz, which you should probably label it somehow, Liquid Jazz here.

Yeah.

But you know, the rocker or whatever. But they, the, um, the somm actually explained why it's important to decant a wine and why they use the rocker. versus the other way, right? And then, I mean—

Correct.

It's almost like this could be like on a somm exam about how, you know, best, because, you know, server, you know, serving things is important with a somm, right? That's why a restaurant, you know, pays this money, this big money to these somms, because they want, you know, they can talk about the region where the wine's from. But I think an opportunity for wine, quite frankly, is I think people want to experience it in the moment, like your Thursday night around the campfire with your friends. It started with the racking, and then now it's developed to this, like every Thursday you guys get together and you tell stories.

Yes.

And I think this product could actually fit into that. Let's go back. We were talking about this earlier, the science of the art of aeration and decanting. So like, okay, so I'm thinking, well, I can just decant it and let the wine breathe. And if the wine breathes, it's going to do the same thing as your rocker. Probably not true. So tell me the difference.

Yes. Decanting and aerating are 2 different things. And I learned that just recently when I was starting this whole process. Decanting, as you're pouring the bottle of— see, I happen to have a bottle here. As you're pouring the bottle into another vessel, It could be a 5-gallon bucket. This is decanting. And you're supposed to be watching this part of the bottle as you get towards the end. If you see sediment, you stop. Oh. Because you don't want— you don't want the sediment in your wine. It just— it gives it a funny flavor. You know, you don't want to sip a wine and end up having solids on your tongue.

Yeah.

And that's just natural sediment that occurs in wine. That's decanting. So once you finish that, that's done. Now the next step, while you pour it in a decanter, is the aeration part.

Oh, okay. So decanting means I'm gonna, I'm gonna uncork it, I'm gonna pour it, and then as I pour it, I should watch kind of that right at the neck, that little bubble.

Yeah, that little bubble right here on the, on the bottle.

Yeah, and I'm watching that as I'm pouring it. Very interesting. So that's the decanting process. Now, if you decant it, it's the aeration process. So go there.

Correct, correct, exactly. So, um, the aeration process is just allowing the— because we were talking about the tannins, the acidity— tannins love oxygen, and it's trapped in that bottle for however many years, you know, that bottle has been corked. The tannins, as they, as they absorb oxygen, they soften. So if you get it, you know, you drink straight from the bottle, you take a sip, you tend to get that little dry feeling, that little bite in the back of your tongue, and that kind of dominates the flavor profile in your mouth at this point. By aerating it and opening it up, that eliminates a lot of that. So you actually get to get a much more flavorful sip of wine. You know, the fruits. The flowers, the earthiness of wines. You actually get to enjoy that and the aromas. So when you swirl the glass— we're not a swirl, we're a rock— but traditionally they would swirl it and smell it, and that's— they're trying to aerate it. That's what they're trying to do by—

Volatilizing the esters. So I learned at E&J Gallo Winery years ago when I started out as a wine salesperson. Okay. So like, you know, how to like, you know, taste the wine, you know, you would basically, you would, you know, you know, pour it in your glass, let it breathe for a while, and then you would swirl it, you would sniff it, and then you would taste it.

Correct. That's right. That's the process. And what we've done is we've just quickened it. Traditionally, you would decant it, pour it in a decanter, and you would let it sit for You know, an hour, 2 hours, whatever it took.

You let a wine sit for an hour, 2 hours? Now hold on a second. Is there a way to do it faster?

Well, thank you very much. That was a great segment. And now with my decanter, and I did get a patent on it, they went back to 1890 with their research and there was nothing like this. That's why I got the patent. And I'm going to plug the Patent Office right now. If you're over 65, you get a 40% discount on the patent fee and you get expedited because they said in the last 5 years the number of retirees that are coming out with patents and they figure, you know, we have a much shorter period of opportunity to get our product out into market than a 20-year-old.

So there's a discount if you're over 65, you get a discount.

Yeah, from the, from the U.S. Patent Office, correct.

Oh, interesting.

I know, it's pretty cool. I did— I said thank you. So anyway, so I did get the patent, and, you know, with, with my process, with the steps on the side of the decanter and the rocking as it slowly goes up and down the decanter, I'm changing the surface area many, many, many more times than it just sitting in a decanter, a traditional decanter. And it just, you know, opens up the wine much faster, softens the tannins, helps the acidity dissipate, that sulfite smell to dissipate, alcohol smell. So you get a much softer glass of wine much quicker. Most of the wines I've been doing are around 4 minutes. So a 4-minute rock tends to soften them and get them—

All right. So back to that restaurant, right? Back to the Burn Steakhouse and the sign. I think, hey, look, you could have this whole experience. You bring the decanter out, you show, you know, you show them the wine, you know, present it, you know, then you, then you, um, you know, decant it and you, you basically, you know, proceed to pour it into the decanter for the experience. People like, oh wow. And then they could tell the story. By the way, this is the new— this is an innovative product developed, you know, by Liquid Jazz, and this is going to be ready to go in the next 4 minutes. And as a matter of fact, why the, the psalmist talking to them, he'll probably talk to them about 2 to 4 minutes, right? Right. Wait, I just got done presenting this to you. Now let's pour this. Would everybody like a glass of wine? Exactly. Obviously, I guess the first part of decanting the wine is that someone tasted a little bit, which that's totally unfair too, because it's like, you know how they present it and they actually pour it in a glass To a little bit. Is this presentable for you? Because they want to see if it's skunked or not, right? Maybe they shouldn't do that. Maybe they should decant it first and see if it's ready to go, because the bottle's already cracked anyway. Say, after I decant it, after it aerates for a while, now I want you to taste it. Or tell them the difference— taste it now and taste it afterwards. That could be part of the experience, right?

Right. Well, what, what we do is we pour a little bit, you know, if there's of us sitting around the table, I'll pour a little bit in the glasses that the restaurant gives you. And then I bring— I always bring my glasses too. And then, but we don't taste it yet, because now you're going to get that harsh taste in your mouth. So I decant, we sip out of the decanter first, the aerated ones out of the Liquid Jazz decanter, we sip that for a little bit. And then we go taste the comparison one. And usually My favorite thing is when I do shows and events is people come up and go, I don't really like red wine, you know, blah, blah. I said, well, can you just humor me and just try? So when I do a show, I'll take this bottle and I'll leave about this much in the bottle and I'll run the rest through the decanter. So now you come up and I pour into my glass and you're sipping out of my glass out of the Liquid Jazz decanter.

Yeah.

So now you get that flavor profile. And now I take the bottle and I pour and I say, now this is the same wine that's in here. Same bottle, not same year, same brand, same bottle. And they taste it. And I— so many people are like, oh my God, this is why I don't drink red wine.

Yeah, because I can drink from the—

I can drink this. Correct. And so that's the most people Will do.

I have this, like, I have a cool little aerator thing that I get, like a little thing you pour in to aerate the— yes, I do that too. I'm gonna actually try this tonight or this afternoon with my wife. We'll open up a bottle of wine, and I have some really nice wines downstairs, and I'll actually video it and I'll send it to you. A couple— so, okay, you talked about the patenting of the product. Say if you're 65 years old, by the way. What is the discount with the, uh, patent office?

40%.

40% discount. That is really good. So hey, all you old folks like myself, and, uh, I guess Michael, I'll throw you in there because you said it.

Yes, thank you.

Take it, take advantage of that. All right, so turning deep craft expertise into consumer product. So you talked about this, like, this experience with the 80-year-old man from Italy that got you into winemaking and how that has morphed into these Thursday night experiences with your friends, which is great. And then you obviously developed this new innovative product. So talk about this consumer, like, like maybe you said it earlier, but I just want to repeat it so everybody hears, like, why did you develop the decanter? Like, what, when did the idea go off to do this?

When we would get together on Thursday nights, you know, I knew wines had to be open. So I would open up a couple of bottles, you know, like 3 hours ahead of time. I'd leave it in the bottle and let the air get in and soften the wine. Excuse me. So what would happen was we'd be sitting outside, beautiful day, and, you know, me, you, Tony, Carlos, you know, there's 5 of us sitting there when we're just enjoying a glass and talking, and then somebody would pull in because it's pretty much an open invitation. We've only had in 26 years only 3 people I've asked not to come back.

Sounds like a bunch of—

All the rest have been welcome.

Tony, Carlos, and Michael.

Yeah, right, exactly. So, so we're, you know, we're, you know, having a glass, having a glass, and then all these cars stop pulling in. Now I've got to go to the wine cellar and get another bottle. Which is fine. I mean, that's why I make the homemade wine to share. But now it doesn't taste the same. You know, it's like a whole different thing. And I kept thinking there has to be something. And I went online and they had one where it sits on this base, a decanter, and it just rocks it all over the place. And another one, you put a pill in an electromagnet, it spins it around and it's really beating the wine. And one wine night, Tony's dad was there early on. And we had the siphon tube out and Kenny's filling the glass and we put the siphon tube back in and he spills maybe a sip. And Mr. Staffieri, Ercolino, slaps his hand on the table and says, if you don't respect the wine, don't make it.

If you don't respect the wine.

First of all, I guess. How do you respect the wine? Well, just by, you know, how he— how it's treated. I mean, for him, this was a tradition he brought as a 16-year-old over to this country. So for him, it was more of a passion. And of course, it was his alcohol for the year. But then I, you know, I took that to heart. It was something I thought of. So when I saw all these other ways, I kept thinking, it's got to be a way, a gentle way to open the wine rather than, you know, beating it. I mean, it was one podcast video I watched, he put it in a blender. Really? So anyway, so we like to vacation on the North Shore of Massachusetts, Gloucester. We live in Massachusetts, we were up in Gloucester, and it's a rocky coast. The hotel we stay at, right across the street, they have this small grass area right on the top of the rocks. So I sit there with my homemade wine and my glass. And this one day, it's in between tides, it's beautiful. The lobster guy happened to be out there pulling traps, a guy fishing on the rocks. This is awesome. And then the tide changed. And then the waves started crashing on the rocks just gently, you know, over. And it opened up the ocean. I started smelling the salt air, the seaweed, and I'm like, huh. Just that little bit of splashing opened up the ocean. So maybe if I could come up with a way with the wine that was so gentle, you know what I mean? And that winter, I'm walking with a friend of mine. We have— we live next to a river over here, and it was very cold, and the river was frozen except for this one spot, which is about 18 inches wide, 3 feet long. And that's because the water was rolling over the rocks. And there was a low branch, and the mist was forming icicles on that branch. And I'm like, Johnny, look at that! The water rolling over the rocks, it kept it from freezing, but it opened up the water so the mist was coming up. And he's like, yeah. I mean, he doesn't know where, you know, what I'm going up here. So I combined the two, and that's how I came up. Yeah, that's how I came up with this, with the The rocking is the ocean that's bringing it up and down. I didn't have rocks, so I had the steps.

And I think it started in Gloucester, right? You're sitting in your wine, amazing day. You see that, you know, you just— this picture you just painted, the lobstermen out there clearing the traps, you know, you're seeing, you know, it was really smooth, and all of a sudden the ocean starts to move just a little bit behind you, and all of a sudden And then you start to get all these smells, right?

Yes.

Start to smell the salt and everything else. And then you're enjoying your wine and this idea says, what if I take this and develop something in a wine? Which is amazing how that occurred to you to do that. So how long did it take you from that, that moment when you're sitting on the rocks in Gloucester enjoying your wine, you came up with this idea to actually bring it to fruition?

Well, at that point, now I'm running, right? Because the idea is there before it goes away. So, you know, I knew a guy who had a sheet metal shop, so I just had him make a little prototype for me. It just had steps in the bottom of a, you know, looked like half a circle. And one of the wine nights, there was 5 of us there. And right, it looked very similar to that. And so he bent it all up, he welded around so it was, you know, watertight, liquid tight. And one wine night, there was 5 of us there. And I said, look, I have an idea. I don't know, I haven't even tested it yet. Let's see. So we poured in a bottle of wine. And, you know, I did it for 10 minutes because I had no idea. And then we We poured it. I mean, it made a mess because it was a flat surface trying to pour it into glasses. But, um, yeah, and lo and behold, it worked. And of course everybody said, what are you going to do now? What are you going to do now?

And so from the time you talked to the, the person that would make it, how long did that take? Was that a month? Was it a week? Like, how—

Oh no, he made it, he made it, uh, 2 days.

2 days? So from the— from Join Wine on the Rocks in Gloucester To seeing the sea open up in 2 days. You took advantage of this idea and you, you made it.

Yes, because I was afraid I was going to forget or get lazy, or— because that's what happens, you know, life starts taking over and so many things get put on that back burner.

Yeah, we talked about that earlier about life. That's true.

Yeah, I mean, it just, it just happens. It's so out of our control. So I, um, we tried it, it worked, and they go like, well, now What are you going to do? You have to do something. So I again that took a little bit longer. So about six months I kept and I found this launch company and they happened to be in Massachusetts, and I hired them and we went through the name process, the design process, the manufacturing process. I I tried a bunch of manufacturers in the states for glass, and they were all all the ones that I could. find were all just too busy. They said, you know, we could fit you in, but it's going to be expensive only because we have to break down what we're making and reset up. And, you know, I only wanted a small amount, so they said it's— so we ended up having to go to China, which I didn't like, but that's, that's what happened.

Yeah.

Um, and then I made a bunch, and then I've been out selling them ever since. So I've had the patent 2 years, and I've been selling this for a couple years.

That's— that is amazing. You know, it's in the morning, so I don't want to make everyone— I would have drank this morning. So I'll definitely do some videos tonight, or maybe send me some instructions. How do people actually find this product? Is there a place they can go order it online?

Yes, right now it's on my website. It's just liquidjazzexperience.com.

I'm actually typing it up here. Oh, okay. Yeah, I get it. Uh, get this right here. I'm gonna send this to myself and then, um, is that right?

liquidjazzexperience.com. Is that right? The website should come up.

No, I'm, I'm screening it right now. So like, is that the right— is that the right—

Yeah, I don't see it. I don't see anything. I I just see you still.

Okay, I'm streaming it on the podcast so people can see it.

Oh sweet, thank you.

Yeah, so I'm not sure why you're not seeing it. You should be able to— usually you should see it. I'm streaming it again. So, and then when we, when we re-curate the video and stuff, I'll put it back out there. But liquidjazzexperience.com, can they find you at retail anywhere? Are you And retailers at this point?

Just, just a few little local, you know, people around my town. I live in Sturbridge, Mass., so there's a few around me that have been kind enough to bring them in. It's really not set up for distribution and stuff yet. Um, you know what, it's the profit structure right now, because I had to buy so few and everything, it doesn't leave a lot extra for everybody to take a little piece.

Well, I would think that the wine Folks out there that, I mean, maybe follow our podcast, that you should give Michael a call and research this new innovative product. Because if I'm out in the marketplace and I'm trying to get an operator to actually bring my product in, I think if you walked in with Michael's product along with his glasses, you're actually— You're, you're You're selling experiences, you're not selling a product, right?

Yes.

So, hey, look, I'm actually going to talk to you about liquid jazz, but I want you to use my wine and I want you to rock my wine versus swirl my wine. And there's a big difference. What is the difference again between swirl, um, you know, um, like, you know, the swirl versus the rock? What's the difference in flavors? Have you done that? Uh, uh, taste test?

Yes, I haven't done it You know, once it's, once it's run through the decanter, then it's, it's open and ready to drink. So if you're a stem glass person, if that's your preference, then it works with the flavor, with the taste profile. But with, with this, like I said, I hold it under my nose. I give it a gentle rock so that opens the flavor. As I start to smell, I go right into the sip. So now Everything, my taste buds, my, you know, the nose, everything all combines and it gives you that full flavor profile for each sip of wine. So that's why, that's why we do that.

Yeah, we're kind of, we're kind of getting into rituals, right? So, um, you know, what is your ritual on Thursday nights? So you're, um, Michael, you arrive, uh, it was Tony and Carlos, so it's the Goodfellas are together, By the way, just— yeah, pretty much.

Tony, Carlos, Bill, and Cooper. Neil, he, uh— we're usually the ones that are there first. Like this, by the way, where are the wives?

The wives are like, just let you do your thing or what?

They're invited, but they're not always there.

I can appreciate— I've been married for 40 years, so I can totally appreciate it, man.

Yeah, it's about our 5th— our 50th in November.

So congratulations, man.

Yeah, so thank you. So everybody's, everybody's on board with this. But, you know, it was a beautiful night Thursday night up here. You know, we have the same storm you have is coming up to us, and it was the calm. So, so I've got a fire pit outside. And, you know, I get, I get out there around 5:30. And usually Neil Cooper, he's the next one that usually shows up, and we put the chair pads out and all the chairs and we light the fire and get everything ready. And then generally it's Bill, then Tony, then Carlos, everybody. They have their own parking spaces. So we just sit around and then you don't, you don't really know. My wife asked, who's coming tonight? I don't know. We've had as few as me and one other. And then one night we had 58 people show up that night.

Holy cow. By the way, that's better than poker night. I think what you described is much better sitting by the fire versus trying to play poker with a bunch of—

Oh, it's— yeah, because, you know, that night with the 58 people, Tony, the one that taught me how to— his dad, Tony plays the accordion. So he had the accordion that night. There were a lot of his family that were there because there was a wedding there. So word got out. We went through 5 gallons of wine that night. 5. We emptied a whole carboy of So yeah, so that was a 13-night ritual.

It could be 2 of you and it could be 58, correct? I mean, it just depends. And so it's an open— so I'm, I'm obviously going to get your address. So if, um, remind me, you're near Gloucester? Are you in Maine or where you at?

No, no, no, we're in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. So if you're coming up 84 through Hartford, okay, when you reach, when you reach Massachusetts, you're in Sturbridge. We're right at the intersection of the Massachusetts Turnpike, Route 90, and Route 84 that comes through Connecticut.

Oh, fantastic.

So, so yeah, easy get-to. And again, you know, it's funny, people will swing by and they'll stay 15 minutes, a half hour. It's like, oh yeah, you know, we're on our way out to dinner, we have 7 o'clock reservation, just wanted to stop and say hi and have a glass of wine. Or they're coming home from shopping, Or, you know, we had one of the guys, Rich, and his wife Luanne, they called up and said, hey, you have wine night tonight? Yeah. Oh, we got some friends in town from Ohio. Can we stop by? Sure, stop by. So it's kind of a place to go. That's what we get when women come. We do get a lot of women that come alone, whether they are single or their spouse is out doing something, because it's What, what an occasion that you're describing here.

I was talking about this yesterday with my friend Duncan from Firebelly Marketing, and we were talking about the concept of occasion-based marketing. Oh, okay. And occasion-based marketing is not a new concept. Actually, Coca-Cola pushed it quite a bit back in the late '90s, early 2000s. Matter of fact, I was part of the Coca-Cola Company, so I got give them some credit. But what they would do is they would walk the perimeter of the store, right? And within the perimeter, they would look at those things like, you know, a deli, you know, it could be a bakery, seafood, but those are experiences, right? I'm going to, I'm going to go out tonight and I'm going to get some seafood. I'm going to go to the deli or maybe it's, you know, what's, you know, rotisserie chicken. And we try to sell 2 liters of Coca-Cola, you know, To those areas as part of the experience, right? So when you talk about like a drinking experience and you talk about the Thursday night, you know, with your friend, uh, I don't remember, that was Tony playing the accordion.

Yeah.

And then some of the women that, you know, feel like there's a safe space to come in, or have friends in town, we're going out to dinner, but I wanted to stop and say hi for 15 minutes. I mean, what you're talking about is an experience Right. It's like, go to Michael's place and experience this and going through 5 gallons of wine with this group of people. So maybe like, like, I think Liquid Jazz is more than a decanter. It's a movement. You're talking about the experiences that come with this that you can get. You enjoy the wine. So you have the decanter, you have like multiple decanters going, or how does that work with 58 people?

Well, well, I didn't have it then.

Okay.

I, I didn't have the decanter then. That was, you know, maybe 10 years ago. But, um, what I usually do is I'll do 2 or 3 bottles ahead of time.

Okay.

Right. And then I just pour it back in the bottle because once it's opened up, you know, and the tannins are softened and the sulfites and acidity and stuff has evaporated out, the alcohol smell has been evaporated out. Then I just pour it back into a bottle and report.

I have an idea for you. Don't do that again. Get like 3 or 4 decanters lined up, right? And actually decant them there in front of your— on your Thursday night, because those are ambassadors, Michael.

Yes, I agree. But where we are is, you know, I have stone tables, I have, you You know, right. So I'm a little concerned about all that glass out there. So everything is low-key and plastic. So I— but every now and then I'll do bring it if somebody new comes and they want to know and see and taste the difference. I'll come into the wine cellar, get it.

Or maybe, maybe just do a quick kind of experience. Hey everybody, I've already pre-decanted all this stuff for you. Yeah, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about You know, Liquid Jazz, my story, and, and, and I really appreciate everybody being here this evening, but I just wanted to can a bottle and have everybody experience the, uh, uh, the, the rocker. You know, everybody has their Red Cups, I get it, but, you know, yeah, maybe you could do like a collab with Red Cup, by the way, where they have the edges in Red Cup.

Yeah, right. Oh, I would love to do that. Yeah.

I'm saying, it's like, because everybody like says their favorite red cup or whatever. But my point is maybe you could do that, or maybe there's a, um, maybe there's an outdoor version. Okay, you got to take advantage of this.

Yes.

An outdoor version of the decanter where you could do something that it's not breakable.

I would love to do that. And the, you know, I've always thought about that. And then what really made a difference for me is I just did a brick— when I sell the The option with the people who sell is a virtual tasting. The first time, I set up a time and we do a tasting together. So a friend of mine sold it to their cousin. So we're doing the virtual tasting. So I said, have them get this ready, get that ready, you know, bring a bottle of wine. So when they set up the tasting, as we're getting ready to talk, he says, oh, I just want to let you know they're both blind. And I'm like, really? So I had to change because a lot of what I do is a visual, is visual. So I had to rethink this, this whole thing and the taste difference for them. And they do, they've got like 3— what, they were from Maryland. It was like 3 or 4 wineries around them that they love going to. And they were talking about the, um, certain servers at each one. They said, oh, we want to take them. And he said, do you have Anything out of plastic or stainless because they said we, we break a lot of stuff. So because, I mean, they're watching him pour. I mean, he way overpoured because, you know, they put their finger in a glass and pour till they could touch it. Well, with the belly of this glass, he didn't have his finger in deep. So he was filling these glasses full of wine. But I mean, they loved it. And I love doing those virtual tastings. because I get to see the faces, especially with them. I mean, they're all face.

So, um, I would love to do something with you with, um, maybe one of our wineries that we represent. And, uh, hey Chris, you never joined. Maybe I was supposed to email you something, but Chris, uh, um, he works— uh, he was an ex-Moët Hennessy executive. Uh, he has his own company. Chris, pray God to start sponsoring us, by the way. I keep on mentioning you, but he's like kind of like a tri-host with us. He pops in. But, uh, I would love Chris to see your product.

Now, where are they? Because you're in New Jersey, right?

What's that?

Are you in New Jersey?

Am I in New Jersey?

Yeah.

No, I'm actually in, uh, I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota, brother.

Oh, I thought— oh, okay.

Yeah, I didn't get the storm you're talking about. I'm in, I'm in Minnesota, so.

But all right, but, but when I was on, um, the, the, your— because I came on early, I thought, now I see why the time difference. It was 10:15. I saw 9:15 on your invite, but that was Central Time. Oh, I feel better now. I thought I goofed you up. But anyway, when I was on The TV was on and I thought they were talking about the Jersey Shore.

So I heard that was on the news and they're talking about that, uh, that, uh, storm that's gonna be there to kind of just settle in there, man.

It's just— yeah, it's, it's, it's, you know, we're starting to get the— it's the beginning of it for us. They're kind of in the brunt of it down there now.

Yeah, so you're getting— you're getting— yeah.

All right. Yeah, so there's a lot of There's a lot of wine up in your area.

Oh, 1,000%. Some of the best restaurants in the world sit here, James Beard Award-winning restaurants. And by the way, that could be a target we could talk about is I would go for those James Beard Award-winning restaurants. Those are the places that want to bring experiences a little bit. What we're talking about is no longer branding, but experiences. Liquid Jazz does that. I also do think that from an outdoor standpoint, I don't know if they're like— I mean, you can probably get different plastic-grade things that doesn't change the taste of the wine.

Right.

You know, there's purists that say glass versus plastic. I don't know if that's a thing or not. I'm sure Chris would have a thought about it. But hey, man, like, if you can have— if you can open up the wine and aerate it, my mom drinks Drinks, you know, wine out of jelly glasses.

Yep, that's that's what I had at Tony's dad's house.

It's a jelly glass. Yeah, jelly glasses. And another thing they do is my mom puts ice in her wine. She doesn't care if it's red or white. It could be a thousand dollar bottle of Cabernet, you know, from the finest vineyard in the world, and she's still gonna put ice in her wine and drink out of a jam glass. And see, this is.

You know what, I struggle a little bit with some sommeliers because we're not wine purists.

Yeah, you know, when people bring a glass and it has to be the right glass and he's—

Right. I mean, what, you know, on wine night when somebody brings a bottle, whether it's bought or homemade, yeah, you know, the whole thing that we do is we'll all take a sip and somebody will go, oh, I like this, and somebody else goes, I don't care for this one. And it's that simple. That's the end of the wine conversation.

Yeah.

You know, to a certain point, but it's more just the experience that the wine is bringing us. The wine has brought us together. The decanter has brought us together. And that's what I was hoping to develop with this, is it's not just about the wine. It's what the wine is doing. Which is getting people together.

What's the wine is doing, getting people together, and that's what Liquid Jazz does. All right, so we're going to wrap up here. And so a couple things I want to do. One is I want to give you the opportunity to share with our audience— whoop, there you go.

It's not me, it'll be my wife, but oh good.

The, um, the opportunity to share with our followers here on Drink Up. Is there anything we didn't discuss today that you would want to share About Liquid Jazz, about, you know, I love what you just said is that it's not really about the wine. It's about a vehicle that can put the wine into to have this experience, to actually have people come together and do whatever it may be in that evening, right? Could be Tony playing the accordion, or it could be just you just like yucking it up, or maybe the— The, the group that shows up with their friends to say, hey, meet my friend Michael, and drinking 5 gallons of wine. I don't know, each one of those Thursday nights is probably a different experience.

Well, I mean, think about now you're sitting here, somebody comes, knocks on the door, somebody you haven't seen in a while, you want to get caught up. If you just stand at the door and chitchat, it's going to be maybe 5, 10 minutes. If you say, hey, come on in, let's have a glass of wine, yeah, it's going to turn into a half hour, 45 minutes.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's what, that's what the wine did. The wine— it's not like, oh, you have to taste this wine. So just have a glass of wine, and that's just to slow things down.

Yeah.

Um, you know, that's how I open my podcast. It's like, you know, isn't it interesting how a glass of wine could just slow life down? And that's the start of it. The other thing I'd like to bring up is how I got the name, the Liquid Jazz Yeah. You know, it's— so our son was a saxophone major at the University of Massachusetts. So we had a Christmas party, it was an annual thing. And when he was in college, he would bring the sax quartet down, they'd set up in the foyer, and they'd be playing Christmas carols. It was more of an open house than a party. So we'd have 60, 70, 80 people come through during the course of the night. 26 years ago, the first year I made wine, you know, they're there and our son was always big band, marching band. So every note had to be played the way it was written.

Oh.

So they're playing, playing, playing. They take a break and then they come back and now they set up in a different area of the house. And his friend Andy's on the guitar, Ray's got his snare drum and they're playing and the tunes are much more upbeat, much more peppier. So my wife and Tony, who taught me how to make the wine. They walked in and said, Anthony, this is so not you. What's going on? He said, well, during the break, we get into the homemade wine. And his friend Ray in the back said, we get into the liquid jazz. Wow. So that's how we get the wine. And that's why the logo is a saxophone pouring notes into a glass of wine.

Your son's still playing the sax? I think of Kenny Loggins, by the way.

Yeah, he doesn't play professionally anymore. He developed a new business and he's down in Cape Coral, Florida now. But every time he comes home, he calls all his buddies and they always get together and they play. They'll call different restaurants that they know and they say, can we— they just go set up and they give them a meal. And then the word gets out and people just go watch him play. So he loves coming home and playing.

That is an amazing story because it goes back to what you just said is it's not necessarily about the wine. It's about this, this innovative product that was developed from my son playing the saxophone and his friend playing the snare drum and coming together and creating this like really cool music. And Liquid Jazz was born. But, you know, and then you have this experience of the wine. It brings us together because wine definitely from the ages actually opens up those conversations, right? Yes. You have someone that's maybe a little shy or reserved, have a couple glasses of wine, they loosen up a little bit, they start to share more, start to be more open. And yeah, it's interesting over the course of the evening when you enjoy a bottle of wine with friends where those conversations go, right? And I love it when you said slow down, right? We live in a digital age today and we're all on our phones and we're trying to chase down the next opportunity or moment. Maybe that's what I'm doing.

Yeah, no, you're, you're in the big majority.

Right. We can just put the phones away, get with humans, and enjoy a nice bottle of wine with all the— without all the digital distractions that we all face nowadays, and just enjoy life. Yes. I mean, that's, that's a, that's a great way to To share with everybody. For me, you know, leaving this conversation, it's funny what I'm about to say, but I almost think I'm gonna come up with all my patent ideas now because I can get a 40% discount. And again, and, uh, and develop it. The other thing that, um, you said which really sat with me, um, Michael, is if you have an idea and you're sitting on that rock in Gloucester enjoying your glass of wine and then you see the sea open up and you start to smell the smells, you come up with an idea, go do it.

Yes.

Don't, don't wait. Because I'll wake up in the middle of the night and I'll come up with an idea and I don't act on it. And there's probably all of us in the world have some good ideas. So I love what you said is that you immediately acted on that idea And within a couple of days, you actually had this product, right?

Right.

You had to do it. And then your journey of how you brought it to market, which is act on your impulse sometimes is okay. It doesn't have to be perfect. So that's how I'll wrap up my closing thoughts. Any of your key takeaways you want to share real quick before we wrap up?

You hit the nail on the head with that. That's the whole thing with me. It's just, you know, I've lived my life, it was too fast, you know, like you were just talking about. It goes by so fast and so many things happen on the way that now it's— I, you know, when I bring this to restaurants and I set it up and I'm rocking it, I got a little case, you know, it's pocket for 4 glasses. I have the decanter in the rocker, the base in there. And when I set up at the table, the people that come over and they're going, oh my God, you know, it's attractive, it's, it's eye-catching. I mean, there were no decanters that even close to this shape. And the people, I'm just like, just slow down, just slow down. And again, and I was a victim just like you are of not doing that.

Right.

So now I'm trying to do that. And part of my opening is, you know, I talk about how wine slows you down. And another part of it is, just like you said, I said, and how a glass of wine, as you're drinking the wine, how the conversation gets a little more honest.

Yeah. I might take your decanter to my restaurant, by the way, and say, hey, look, I'm about I want you to decant it in my decanter.

Right. And what if you could too, take their 4 glasses and pour a little, just a little bit into each one, decant it, and then aerate it, and then sip it first out of my glasses, and then you'll be able to see the difference.

Yeah, I want them to tell me no, because not that I'm looking for a fight, because I never would do that, but I'm like, I'm gonna spend I want you to decant it in my decanter. Yeah, well, it's like almost like want to challenge a SOM, like the SOM challenge. So all you SOMs out there, uh, you know, liquidjazzexperience.com, reach out to Michael, maybe get this, uh, this product in your restaurants because it could be a great tool in your toolbox as you talk to all those, you know, Patreons that show up right now. Why do people go back to the restaurant, right? We were talking about this the other day. My friend Duncan goes to this Italian restaurant and he's like, I go back to this Italian restaurant because they always open up the evening with a nice like little drink to start the evening. And throughout the course they always have these little like surprises that they bring to you, right?

Because the experience he's getting there is awesome.

The experience he's getting there is awesome. So hats off to that Italian restaurant in Indianapolis. I have to go see Duncan and go to that. With that being said, I want to thank everybody for joining us on Drink Up Podcast. Again, liquidjazzexperience.com, Michael Fours. The Rock Decanter is one of the most innovative products I've ever seen. Those in the winery business, again, this is not swirling, this is rocking. A big difference. Opens up the wine about 4 minutes here. You can again find it online, soon to be in retail, and maybe some partnerships with some relatively large, well-known premium luxury winery. Because I think when I look at this, I think of Rolex, by the way.

Oh, okay.

This is not your everyday— this isn't— I mean, this is a luxury item, you know, and it's meant to be enjoyed. But we're going to be exploring maybe that outdoor concept of having this so Michael can have his Thursday nights. And slow down to speed up, everybody, is Michael's message. Use that wine to slow down, enjoy life, find humans. You know, let's put the digital down, let's put the AI down, and let's just live our life. So thank you, Michael, for joining us today. And please, thank you very much, Michael. Don't hang up. I'm just going to stop the podcast.

Yeah.

See everybody. Bye-bye. Yeah.