Welcome to our live show!

Drink Up Live podcast with our guest Henry Matus.

Yeah, Matus, Mattis, however you want to pronounce it.

Mattis, Matus, Mattis. Okay, sorry, I apologize. So Mattis is how it's pronounced? Yes, Mattis.

Perfect.

Okay, well, Henry, nice to see you. Before we get started, just a couple things we call it our sponsors of the podcast. So Every week, thank you for our friend Jay at Freebird Jay Williams. It's a drink that is blowing up across America, and we certainly, Jay, appreciate your your sponsorship. And then obviously Adam, who has dropped off today when we go live raw and real. Sometimes, you know, things drop unfortunately. So that's that's okay too. So, but Adam owns Alias Advising, so he will advise brands that want to come to market, operational pro. And then we were talking earlier when he was on the operations side of like BevSource. So thank you, Adam. And then certainly want to call out Ryan Hellerman with Rocks Advising. And Adam, that's a group of folks that work across various industries that help brands go-to-market. And then Alicia Vargo with BevAssets, we help brands find distribution and customers across North America. But with that being said, welcome, Henry. I've got a special guest. We were just talking earlier and I was letting Adam kind of run the show with you as we prepare, but I did do a little bit of homework and The one thing that I'm really interested in, and, uh, is we were talking about that you bet you were an entrepreneur before you were born, I think you said, right? And then we also were talking about the lemonade stand, and I said you were probably the kid on the side of the road at 5. You're like, no, I was 3 when I did the lemonade stand. So, Henry, tell us a little bit about yourself, um, what you're, you're currently doing, and, uh, we'll take it from there.

Definitely, definitely. No, thank you so much for having me on. It's incredibly exciting. So, so no, my name is Henry Manis. I'm a 26-year-old, 3-time, now 3-time entrepreneur based here in St. Louis, Missouri. You know, I always say it's one of the greatest kind of hidden gems here in the US. But no, so I mean, kind of as Sam alluded to, you know, I always kind of considered myself an entrepreneur before I was born. before I could walk, before I could ride a bike. And so it's always just been kind of in my professional and personal DNA. And so really I would say like my professional entrepreneurial career was based out of my journey as a 3-time brain cancer survivor. And so being first diagnosed at 18 and then at 21 and then recently at 25 years old, it's definitely, It's one of those journeys where I don't think you'll ever hear somebody say, oh, I'm grateful I was diagnosed with cancer. But in some weird way that there has been such a silver lining within this journey where there's been so much exploration and discovery that cancer has kind of accelerated within my life. And I would say that first beginning my first startup in the pet nutrition industry, it was called Bark and Sniff. We created kind of a line of pet nutritional supplements. Really, again, it was kind of reading a research study that said about 50% of dogs over the age of 10 will pass away from some form of cancer. And I kind of ran to my dog food bag that we were feeding my dogs for their entire lives. And it just about gave me a heart attack where it was like this incredibly well-known brand, you know, incredibly, you know, healthy kind of positioned, uh, brand. And it's like—

How old were you when you started this, uh, this company?

18. 18. And so, yeah, and, and I just— it gave me a heart attack where I was just like, oh my gosh, I have been feeding my best friend something that I wouldn't even feed my worst enemy. And I thought, oh my gosh, just as we season our food at home is how, like, I have to, you know, kind of season my dog's food. And so, yeah, so that was kind of the basis of Bark and Sniff. So we wanted to take kind of a chef-driven culinary approach and married, kind of marry that with a, you know, a nutrition kind of focus lens. And, you know, great success, built it over the course of about 5 and a half years. You know, we expanded it to about 26 different retail accounts. And then of course pandemic hit, we kind of repositioned our focus. And that is actually when I kind of created the STL Dog Passport Guide. And that was really, you know, I noticed a lot of great, you know, hospitality establishments were closing. And I thought, you know, let's marry the pet owner industry and the hospitality industry, 2 kind of rock solid but cult-like following industries. And so over the course of about 3 editions, I was managing about 90 hospitality partners, you know, incredible kind of run. And then I kind of, got the entrepreneurial itch again to kind of switch course and really pursue a passion of mine, which was food and beverage. And that was really how I got into the Neapolitan pizza world. You know, kind of took a— again, a—

It's a Neapolitan pizza, just so everybody knows. That's the one that kind of bubbles up and stuff and it's a little bubbles and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's basically, it's cooked at 850, 900 degrees. Um, you know, ready.

What oven gets to 850, 950 degrees? Mine only goes to 500.

It's crazy. It, it honestly, it's, you know, and I mean, I had one of those little kind of tabletop pizza ovens and, you know, you connect the propane tank and it's just like, oh my gosh, this is at, you know, almost 1,000 degrees on, you know, on top of a table. And, you know, you would think, oh my gosh, what the heck am I doing? I'm, you know, I'm a liability to my condo. And, um, But it was just, again, it was one of those things where, you know, just the combination of the char and the fermentation, that was just of like great— I don't know, it just— I found that there was so much room for potential of, you know, customizing recipes, customizing the crust texture, you know, the flavor of it. There was, again, just so much kind of room for almost like that product artistry, I'll call it.

Amazing. And Adam, you're back. You missed the whole thing.

I'm sorry. Jesus.

Yeah, I'm— I got, uh, 2 things. Uh, hey, are you traveling, by the way?

Are you out and about somewhere?

I'll go you one better. Not only am I not traveling, I'm at home and I got fiber internet this last week and I'm still dealing with this bullshit. This house fucking hates internet signals. It just does.

Yeah, I got fiber too through Novera. Actually, I've decided— it reminds me, I have to call my cable company and, um, and cancel, uh, MediaCom because I did this fiber. It's supposed to be better or whatever. Yeah, so I think it is. I haven't had— I mean, I've been, I've been perfect today other than we're trying to stream. We are streaming on several, uh, locations. I'm not sure if we're actually on LinkedIn though, which is— we've been having issues, but that's okay. We'll get it out there anyway. But so, Henry, first of all, when I saw the word dog, dog treats and stuff, and then I saw the word brain cancer and stuff that you're a survivor of that. So, I mean, hats off to you. Stage one, you fought that. Eighteen, you became an entrepreneur. I'm really excited to talk to you. I mean, from a personal note, I'm going through a journey with my dog. He's eleven years old, and. On an incidental finding, they found a mass on his right lobe side that's 10.5 centimeters.

Oh my gosh.

We've made the decision not to operate. We made the decision to do palliative care. And I've been going through those stages, which I'm assuming you know exactly what this is. I mean, you know, and again, you mentioned, I mean, you're just beginning, but you've been going for a decade. Which is amazing.

It's crazy. And first of all, I just want to say, it's just, I feel like it's one of the most, it's one of the toughest journeys I feel like a person can go through is like with, you know, their best friend. So, um, you know, I just, there's always kind of like that, that just kind of like almost, I'll call it kind of savior-like, uh, good vibes that, you know, definitely sending your best friend's way.

Yeah, well, thank you, man. I mean, I, I appreciate it. It's been, it's been very difficult. Everybody I talk to, I'm just a very— I'm like Joe Harrah's window, so I'm very open, um, when it comes to that. So you got in the food and beverage industry, so let's, let's go there. So what are you currently doing? Again, we were kind of touching on that when Adam kind of came out of me. So what's, what's your current, what's your current, uh, business? What are you currently doing? What are you bringing to the What lemonade are you bringing to everybody right now? Awesome.

So right now, and I'm kind of trying to figure out how to position this kind of the correct way since we haven't officially launched, kind of looking to launch really probably within the next, I'd say, 4 to 6 weeks is probably kind of like the timeline that we're looking at. But really what it is, is that it is a menu intelligence startup. And so I kind of call it a master sommelier in your pocket. And so I want people to make sure that every time they spend their hard-earned money at a restaurant, a wine bar, a pub, anywhere that they go, no matter whether an entrée costs $9 or whether you're buying that filet mignon for $90, I want you to make sure that not only you're food kind of portion of your meal, but especially your beverage and drink portion aligned with your flavor profile. And so this is basically an app to help people figure out what their perfect order is at a restaurant or at a bar.

So, so I'm at the bar, I pull the app up, I order my meal, and then you'll tell me what the great— the beverage to go with the meal would be. go to?

So it's basically what we do is that I've built really kind of like this very wide, vast knowledge base that kind of is the engine behind the app. And what you do is you, you basically, you fill out your, you know, you fill out this questionnaire that we've developed that it's a very specific questionnaire. And after you fill it out, we gain basically a scientific level understanding of your flavor palette. And what we do is that then, you know, with our hospitality partners or, you know, bar partners, whoever it is, you know, they set up their profile, they upload their menu, and then our system basically parses it in a sense where we assign all of our kind of proprietary flavor tags and signals to every single item on their menu, whether it's a food ingredient, you know, food item or drink item. You know, our kind of system automatically tags everything for them. And, you know, once a person, you know, kind of scans a QR code at one of our partner establishments, our system recognizes that they're, you know, at that restaurant and it automatically basically applies their flavor palette to the restaurant's menu and then automatically kind of outputs So you're going to be on the journey.

It says a very personal journey that you're on with this consumer. So I go to my favorite Italian restaurant here in the cities and I order my— like, I love fettuccine Alfredo with chicken.

Definitely.

And so you'll see over time what I'm ordering and what I'm drinking. So you actually get the transaction detail then of what I'm ordering from that when I'm in there, what I ordered in that meal.

Definitely, definitely. And so what we want to do is that, you know, we, we've kind of developed the product in the sense where it's like every single time a person scans a QR code, you know, kind of applies their flavor profile to one of our, you know, partner establishments' menu, you know, and it spits out, you know, their quote unquote perfect meal. Our system continuously gets smarter and smarter and smarter. And I think again, just as kind of like an entrepreneur, it's sort of like once you've built sort of like the version 1 of your product, you're not finished. You're going to have, as kind of we were alluding to earlier, it's like you're going to find bugs, you're going to find all of these different things to then release your V2, V3, V4 version. And I think again, I wanted to kind of automate that in the sense where it's like the more users we have, the smarter our system gets. And, you know, basically it turns kind of like a master sommelier to a master sommelier plus. And you just kind of like, it just continuously gets smarter and smarter and smarter.

What's the value to the— I think I know the answer, but to the bar restaurant to actually use your app to partner with you?

Absolutely. So one, increased check average. And then I would say increased retention rate. And return visit rate. You know, I think again, it's kind of like, again, I'll kind of apply this to every entrepreneur in the world where it's like, it's great if you have a one-time customer, you know, you claim that revenue, but where the real value is, is turning that one-time customer into a recurring customer. And, you know, there's only a, you know, there's a lot of people on this planet, but again, it's like, News spreads between people and it's like, okay, I had, you know, I gave it this restaurant one chance and it kind of ruined it. My meal was horrible. My drinks were overpriced and not too great. And I should have ordered, you know, something else. And so, you know, I think again to the restaurant, it's, it gives them that, that opportunity to make that first great impression, to make that one-time customer a recurring customer. But while they're there, It basically is increasing the customer's check average. You know, and so it's kind of a, it's sort of a kind of, I don't want to say it's kind of like a loop where it's like, you know, increases the check average for the restaurant, increases the, you know, the positivity of a person's meal and their experience, and then makes them kind of a sticky—

So you answered the question about why a restaurant or bar would want to use your app. Obviously for customer retention and their experience. So now go to the consumer. I'm at— I'm having my meal. What is the value this app's bringing to me? I guess you're going to tell me what I should consider on the menu based on my palate.

Definitely, definitely. And so we take, um, you know, kind of while I was building kind of like the, the knowledge foundation, we'll call it, um, and like the logic behind the app, I wanted to again almost take kind of like that sommelier approach where it's like, you know, you have sort of like that master sommelier level person right in your pocket. And again, it's great if they can give you advice on, you know, what to order for your drink. But again, it's like, again, a lot of people go to restaurants for food and, you know, the drinks are supposed to pair with the food, the food is supposed to pair with the drinks. And so our system kind of makes sure that we take kind of like that 360-degree approach to their meal. So that every portion of it is tailored to kind of like their flavor profile and their preference. And also kind of take into account allergens, specific diets, whether they're pescatarian or vegetarian or vegan, or just give me anything and everything. And so we really, again, kind of take kind of an 8-level approach to tailoring that meal to each individual patient.

So could you act like Yelp a little bit where I'm going out and I could pull up your app and say, hey, look, you know my flavor profile and what I like to eat. Do you recommend places to go?

So that's actually, again, kind of like on our future roadmap. It's kind of funny. You're almost like a mentalist. I love it. So, and so that is definitely kind of on our roadmap.

See, Adam, I am smart. Just tell Adam that.

I love it. I love it. It's just like, so yeah, no, I mean, like, you're exactly Exactly, like you're reading my mind, right? So that's kind of like a, I would almost say kind of like a V2 or V3 kind of feature. But what we're really focusing on right now is that, you know, I think the lean entrepreneur kind of mindset in me where it's kind of like get the V1 product released into the market and, you know, receive product feedback, refine the product, you know, figure out any, any, you know, anything that could have been missed in the development process and then just make sure that product is as perfect as it possibly can be and then introduce those additional features. But the way I produced it and developed it was that I wanted to include as many of those features as possible just without making the development timeline 3 years, 5 years, 10 years and never actually releasing the product.

Yeah, what, you know, what's amazing to me, and I think about the kid with the lemonade stand, I, I shit you not, I cuss, sorry Adam, but Adam appreciates that, I'm picking on him.

I'm sorry.

Adam needs to chime in here, but I'm going down the road and it's literally like 8 o'clock at night and it's getting dark out, and I see this kid, like 5-year-old, on the side of the road with his sign trying to sell lemonade, right? So that just resonated with me, um, you know, and I think about what you're creating And you said it earlier in the conversation, and this is a question, and our deep thinker is going to come in with a lot of questions here. But, you know, people don't buy brands anymore. People, they're not— and nothing against the celebrities out there with the millions of followers. I don't think they even buy brands because of celebrities on the brand anymore. I think they buy experiences. And what your app is— and you used the word experience earlier— is what's the experience I'm going to have on this app to make my meal or my adventure, you know, into these places, to choose these choices that I may have? What is it that separates you versus the other apps out there that do this?

Definitely, definitely. And so I love that you alluded to that. So What I'll do is kind of in my answer, I'm going to very quickly kind of take a little step back. And so when I was building Bark and Sniff and made the transition to solely, you know, a pet nutrition company into a pet experiential company was that people wanted to build experiences with their best friend. And what is one of the best ways to, you know, build an ex— you know, build experiences with your best friend that, you know, then bring them to, you know, your local neighborhood restaurant or pub or whatever. And so I love that you alluded to that because You know, things are not getting cheaper nowadays. Um, and so, yeah, I see Adam's face where it's like, amen. Like, it's— when you go out to a restaurant, you are spending your hard-earned money, and you want to make sure that that hard-earned money is not going to get thrown in the trash and, you know, ruin your night. You know, whether you go out on a weekday night, um, or ruin your weekend where it's like, all right, I am not, you know, One bad experience at a restaurant, I feel like, can just kind of throw you in a spiral where it's like, all right, I'm not going to any more restaurants or any more bars or whatnot. And so we want to just make sure that we have created the best possible app to kind of respect the hard-earned money you make and make sure that if you are going to a restaurant, we are going to damn well make sure that it is going to be the best. experience at that restaurant that you can receive. So, you know, again, it's, you know, every single dollar, you know, I know I venture to guess that you guys have probably talked to people where it's like, oh yeah, you know, developed this with $2 million, $3 million. And it's like, you know, I probably could have done it with $400,000. But again, it's kind of taking that lean approach and applying that almost to like putting myself in my customer's shoes where it's like, People want to stretch a dollar as far as possible, or that they want to spend each dollar at a high, you know, with kind of like the highest quality possible experience. And I think that's what OrderSum is delivering, is that we're making sure if you go to a restaurant or pub or bar or, you know, wine bar, champagne bar, we're going to make sure that you have the best possible experience.

Amazing.

Thank you.

Adam, you're up.

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that comes to my mind is like, um, and I was listening to a comedian actually, uh, uh, go over some stuff like this last night, like from a— as a foodie, like my wife will, you know, she can hear me, she's giggling as I say this, like I don't consider myself a foodie, but also like I've learned as I've gotten older that I love, you know, like blistered tomatoes in a cream sauce. Like I love an acid through a fat, right? Like that. That, so like Italian food, Mediterranean food, you know, Latin American food, just, hmm.

Yeah.

Like that's my shit, right? And so like everything you're talking about as a user makes total sense. I'm also curious and, you know, maybe we're, we're you know, wagging the dog a little bit, but I'm also curious from a restaurant's perspective, like I have to assume that if people are using this app, you know, not that you're selling, you know, or that you would necessarily sell like personal data, like, oh, Jim H. from, you know, Cincinnati likes this, but that you could provide high-level data back to those restaurants that say like, hey, 40% of the people in your area are really gonna love this dish. So if somebody comes in new and says, I've never been here, you know, what's good or what do people like? Like, yes, the waiter can say, well, personally I like this, but they can also say statistically the world at large that comes here loves to start with X. That makes sense?

Absolutely.

No, it's like, you know, I think the one thing I've probably learned most from my brother-in-law was, you know, is that data is gold. And I, you know, I feel like kind of like what you mentioned, Adam, where it's like data is the, you know, kind of like the golden goose of companies like mine, you know, but companies in a wide range of industries. And I think that again, that's sort of like the piece that I'm exploring and it's definitely not my expertise. Like I am a CPG food and beverage guy where it's like I can make a mean Neapolitan pizza.

Yeah. Yeah.

But if you're gonna talk to me about, you know, data extraction and, you know, data, you know, data extractions and then selling that data, definitely not, you know, my, my range of expertise, but it's definitely something that I'm exploring right now and, and trying to, to figure out that sort of landscape since the kind of like the V1 product has already been kind of produced for sure.

Well, and I, I have to imagine like, The reason I bring that up is even for me, like, as I— I'm gonna sound like so goofy saying this— as I get older, uh, just the, like, like, we were watching— my wife and I were watching a show this morning before, you know, having coffee, hanging out with dogs, and—

Uh-huh.

Like, the, the over— I'll call it, you know, kind of subscriptionification of just fucking life in general, right? Like Yeah. What they were talking about on the show was like new vehicles being made over the last, you know, year or two are coming with things where it's like, if you want hands-free cruise control, it's a subscription, right?

Absolutely.

If I go to a dealership and they tell me cruise control requires a subscription, you can get fucked, right?

Yeah.

There's a reason I'm looking to buy older cars, not newer ones, right?

Yeah. Amen.

So the question I asked you about like how the restaurants can take advantage of it is is based around like what, even for myself, like if I go to a restaurant and say, you know, what's good here? And they go, you know, well, if you, you know, if you download this and you do this, like, yeah, over time that sounds like it genuinely sounds interesting to me. It sounds like something I would take advantage of. But if I'm out on date night and I'm trying to have a conversation with my wife and I want that to be the focal point of my evening, kiss my ass if I'm gonna take 10 minutes to do that. Right.

Definitely.

Definitely. But if the restaurant has that information based on other users or people like myself who maybe sign signed up at home or did whatever, amazing. Like, I love that that's an option, right? I just want to have a conversation with a person about it and save myself 10 minutes in that moment, right?

Yeah, no, absolutely, 100%. Um, yeah, no, I, again, I, I think like this is why I love talking to people sort of in the industry and that have that kind of mindset, is that, you know, the one of the main reasons I wanted to build this app, one is You know, respect people's money, you know, hard-earned money that they spend at hospitality establishments that, you know, wanting to maximize basically the amount of like, I don't know, I'll almost call it pleasure per dollar during their dinner, lunch, breakfast, brunch, you name it.

Sure.

I think one of the other things too is that I wanted to create that dialogue and to be able to, to basically initiate and sort of cultivate a culinary dialogue between the diner and the restaurant staff. Because, you know, I always say is that like, I never, ever, ever, ever want this product to replace a server, a bartender, a restaurant manager, nothing. I think that would probably be almost my biggest nightmare. What I want this to do is that I want this to create a dialogue where people can say, I would have never even imagined ordering this dish just based on, you know, it sounds foo-foo, it sounds fancy. I don't know these ingredients. I don't know the spice combination. And, but it's just that again, you could basically now talk to the staff with sort of a, a knowledgeable understanding where it's like, yeah, this dish actually matches my flavor profile. Could you kind of like, uh, you know, allude or, you know, basically build off of what the app says where it's like, you know, what actually might, might make this from your perspective kind of match or, you know, basically why I might like this dish.

Mm-hmm.

And so creating that dialogue between the diner and the staff is again one of sort of like the, the, the primary, you know, objectives or, you know, one of the main reasons I was building this product is just again to build a more educated experience for the diner so that they can more You know, basically communicate with the staff in an educated kind of way.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

No, absolutely. So, so in terms of, I mean, going back to that kind of subscription conversation, right? Like, again, I think it's a, the comment I've, you know, you and I talked before, obviously before having you on the show now, and, you know, one of the things I've, I've been telling people both personal and professional life is like, the, the more I do this and the older I get, and so maybe it's both, maybe it's something else, but like, I just want to nerd out with people, right? Like, yeah, if I could sit and have— not sit, but like, if I could, you know, have conversations like this all day, whether it's, you know, on a call like this or out taking a walk or traveling with somebody, whatever, like, I love this shit. Um, yeah, but we also all have bills to pay, right?

Definitely.

So from a From a money-making perspective, is it something where you see, you know, the, the, the folks benefiting from it, meaning the restaurants and stuff, like they pay a, a, an access fee? Is it a subscription model? Is it, you know, there's an advertising opportunity? Like, where does it— or is it, you know? You've had 3 businesses, you've exited 3 businesses. Like, fuck it, this is my good deed for the world. It's free from top to bottom. You know what I mean?

Yeah, no, most definitely. So again, it's kind of like I still call myself a starving entrepreneur where it's like people think where it's like, oh my gosh, you're on your 3rd business. My gosh, at 26, you must be worth $50 million. I'm just like, Sure, yeah.

In the longest sense.

Like, you know, entrepreneurship, it, you know, I feel like it's almost like the over-beautification, if that's even a word, where it's like the over-beautification of entrepreneurship, where it's like entrepreneurship is one of the hardest, most grueling grinds I feel like a person can kind of like take on. Um, you know, every single person in every industry and every profession, they all have their, their difficult areas that I feel like other people can't even imagine. But, um, you know, I will say is that like this is kind of the, the company I dreamed of building. And I think that again, it's like—

The current company that you're doing? That's— so the other 3, you've, you've built 3 companies. This is your 4th?

So sorry, this is my 3rd.

It's your 3rd. So you've built 2 companies and this is your 3rd and this is your dream?

Yeah.

I mean, I would say that every business that I've built, you know, is my dream, but it's just that I think as As I've gotten older and have now had 8 years of like professional experience building companies, I have applied so many of the lessons that I've learned hard, you know, hard lessons to learn. I'll just say lightly.

8 years of experience building companies. I'm sorry to interrupt, but at 26 years old, I was working for Gallo, I think. And I was just like, what are we going to do this weekend to get drunk and drink some tequila shots?

I mean, sorry. I just know it's all good.

Amazing. I wish my younger, I I wish I could tell my older self, my younger self, everything you're telling me now. Because I always thought, and I have to say this, and let you finish your thought, but I have to say this, is I always talked about becoming an entrepreneur, but I never did it until I had to do it. Right? Meaning, in my case, I had no other option other than to go in business for myself because no one would hire me at 57 years old.

Yeah.

You know, and what you're sharing here is so incredibly important. about the journey you're on. And now, you started as a young man, but you can start at any time, and it's definitely not for the faint of heart. I just wanted to put it out there that very much respect, man, in terms of what you're creating. Now, I know Adam probably can share his journey too because I've been on it with him, you know. So for, you know, like, for what you're doing is absolutely amazing, and I think anybody can do it if you're really focused, you know, persistent, and you can persevere through the difficult times, um, of it, which is amazing.

Oh my gosh, I, I feel like I could not have said that better. It's like, I feel like you are only as strong as a— well, one, as a human being, but it's just that two, as a founder, um, you know, you're only as strong as the, the circle of people you've built around you and You know, I will say is that, you know, my family, my friends, my mentors, like, I would not, you know, it may seem like my journey is like this ruby golden, you know, sort of like golden yellow brick road from The Wizard of Oz. There has been a lot of, you know, there has been a lot of sort of what I call nadirs, where it's kind of like you were at like sort of like the abyss.

Yeah.

And you have no clue how the hell you're going to get out of that deep black hole at the bottom of the ocean. And it's just that, again, it's a circle of people that I've built throughout my career along with my family that have, one, gotten me out of those basically— people call them ruts. I think, yeah, in my case where it's like when I was sitting in you know, the hospital bed when I was 18, when I was 21, when I was 25. You know, it's like, it just, you wanted to just give up. And I think there were so many times in my life where, you know, I, you have those thoughts of like, I, Henry, just give up. Like, you are 26. Most days, you know, you're kind of killing yourself. Like, you know, it's kind of like you hear about like some of the greatest product features I've developed. I've stayed up till 3 AM, 4 AM developing it when nobody else in the world is awake or whatever. And I just, again, it's kind of like it's one of those things where there's just kind of like that inner voice. There's like that inner— I don't know. I kind of almost call it kind of like the entrepreneurial conscience where it's just that motivational force where it's like you remember every single positive motivational thing that your family have said, your mentors have said. And it's just, it's that last little bit of reserve kind of in your, in your, you know, your car's gas tank to keep you going. And, you know, the progress that you make from using that, that reserve and whatnot, a lot of times it's the most beautiful parts of, you know, a company. And to be honest, is that like some of my greatest features are the ones that I ended up pushing past the point that I could, or, you know, that I thought I could. And, and then I'm just like, oh my gosh, I, I built one of my greatest product features, you know, right after, you know, literally 2 hours after I was about to give up. And it's just, again, it's about finding that inner, that inner reserve tank over and over and over again. Because I could have given up, you know, I could have given up when I was 18.

Yeah.

You know, and just said, I'm in a hospital bed. I just got diagnosed with cancer, you know, shortly before my 18th birthday. I'm just giving up. Like, I'll go, you know, try and enjoy college, you know, get a, get a 9 to 5 and just try and chug along. And I just, again, like, I was just like, you know what? No, I was put on this earth for something else and something greater than just accepting a— You know, kind of a less than, you know, I'll call it not a less than great sort of quality of life, but less than great, you know, path forward in life. Like, I want, you know, if I'm on this earth living and breathing, eating and drinking, I'm going to have the, you know, I'm going to create the best damn possible life for, you know, myself and the people around me and the world around me. Uh, that I possibly can, because it's like—

That's amazing. You know, you only live once, right?

Got that right.

Yeah, 26. You know, it's interesting, you know, I think about— there's a Snoopy, um, uh, cartoon that talks about we all are gonna die, right? But we're living today. Yeah, that's right. I love the life force and energy that you share, and we certainly all have trials and tribulations. Hell, it seems like it's a daily occurrence for me. In my, uh, business, you know, you get a cease and desist letter from someone, or you get a client that comes, which is awesome, then a client, client that goes, which sucks.

Yeah.

You know, it's, uh, it's definitely not for the faint of heart. But, you know, as you keep on going, and like you said, the pit or at the bottom of everything, uh, inevitably, you know, something, a light peeks around the corner and you're— you find your way out of it.

Definitely.

Which is, you know, so encouraging. So let's talk about brands and push and pull. So what you're describing with your app, I think, is pull. So we as an organization, we push products, meaning Bev assets, into market on behalf of our clients or frontline, and we'll go get an item in distribution on a shelf or on a back bar. And I'm thinking about one of my clients, uh, Forenza Tequila, that's being launched. One of the women that own the brand, she owns a restaurant. And she— yet last week she was walking through a restaurant and she was telling me she has all these tequilas. So she walks by and she shows me like 300 tequilas on a wall, right?

Oh my gosh.

And all those tequilas on the wall, how many of them are selling? She said 5. 5 out of 300 are selling. So then I think about— yeah, and I'm a brand, like a brand like this called Free here, a little free advertising for free. There you go, Paul Novelli, I just put it on the podcast. Uh, free. This is a bonded, uh, bourbon, I think, right? Or yeah, this is a, you know, a 4-grain bourbon is what I just—

Also, I'm sorry, like, I just have to say, I am a sucker And just absolutely addict for great label designs and great kind of branding style. Oh my gosh, from the font to the color to sort of like the, you know, the color of the label to kind of like the background and color of the bourbon is spectacular, like in every way.

Wow. Yeah. Well, thank you. So I got this product and I'm going to come talk to you and your business. Okay, I want, I want to, I want to have this pull through the restaurants and the bars. Tell me what you could do to help me in my free product.

Yeah, no, so definitely. So that is honestly, I, I feel like one of the greatest benefits, um, for, uh, you know, I'll say microproducers, and I'll say is that like I think there's a lot more benefits for beverage kind of like the beverage side of OrderSome, just because, you know, obviously like restaurants' greatest bread and butter is alcohol and drinks. It's the highest margin, you know, and most likely, you know, most often highest quantity product that they push. And so what I want to do is that in order to give basically all of those microproducers the greatest possible chance of visibility is that kind of in our product, or, you know, I built my product so that it does not give an extra added push just because a brand is a $4 billion brand, a $40 billion brand. Um, they don't get any special treatment.

So you level the playing field.

So we level the playing field, and it's basically we want it, you know, if a brand that is selling 300 bottles a month If that brand's bourbon, tequila, gin, mezcal, you know, cachaça, like it— if that brand's product matches your flavor profile better. So like, let's say, you know, a person says that they want to order red wine because like within the app, one of the, one of the questions is, you know, what are you drinking tonight? And we have all these different kind of options that they can select. And you can select however many you want. And, you know, I will say is that like I've become like a huge advocate kind of for the, for the NA kind of industry. And so like, but I also feel kind of like a big barrier with the NA industry is people just think it's glorified water that's maybe infused with some stuff that I'm still paying the same price as, you know, a regular bottle of gin or tequila. But if there is a certain brand in my, in my case, of champagne, or like NA champagne, or NA white wine that is going to match my flavor profile better but is a much less known brand, our product's going to basically bring them up to first position. Um, and so—

Based on the first position, based on the individual choice and experience, because first position for me is not first position from Adam, I guarantee it.

Yeah, yeah. And so it's basically like we are giving every single producer, um, or every single, you know, vineyard a chance for it, you know, an equal opportunity to land on a person's table, uh, in a restaurant.

So how do I get into your app? How do I get free in the app right now?

Yeah, so basically, so, um, once we do launch very, very soon, um, and honestly right now we do kind of have like a beta that, that people can test and actually sign up for. So basically, they literally just kind of answer, you know, very brief questionnaire, inputting their brand's, you know, information, you know, their location. And then they basically upload kind of what their product portfolio is. And then for each product, we make it very, very easy to assign flavor tags, flavor notes, aromas, All of the different things that you would literally find kind of on a master sommelier grid, where it's like how they how they classify a wine. We basically apply that to every single type of spirit, wine, aperitif, digestif. Like we basically we apply that same sort of flavor classification to every type of spirit, whether it's alcoholic or non-alcoholic. And then you know they would literally just click. Sign up. Um, and what they'll do is that basically, like, our technology will recognize and basically store all of their products', um, uh, flavor tags or whatnot, so that once a restaurant uploads their menu and they see that their, you know, their brand is included in a restaurant's cocktail menu, they'll automatically— like, our, our product will automatically assign that brand's flavor notes and everything to the restaurant's menu automatically. And so, you know, when a customer, you know, creates their profile, visits that restaurant, you know, it'll recognize that that brand's, you know, flavor notes match theirs perfectly. And so it'll basically bring that micro producer's product to first position for, you know, a diner, and they'll be exposed to basically, you know, all of these great Alcohol, non-alcoholic beverage brands where it's like, oh my gosh, I would have never tried that, you know, that specialty type of bourbon or tequila or, you know, whatever. And, you know, my hope is that basically it'll create kind of like I always call it like metanoia, where it's like, oh my gosh, like that aha moment that I need to go buy, you know, a 750 milliliter bottle of their bourbon. and replace the current one in my bar at home.

So who's your customer?

So it's kind of a dual-sided customer. So one is obviously restaurants. So I will say specifically with restaurants, I would say that it's kind of the— granted, we say every— literally from the neighborhood pub all the way up to kind of like the Michelin-star restaurant is a customer of OrderSums. But I would say that primarily kind of like that mid-tier to upper-tier restaurant, cocktail bar, wine bar, whatever you want to call it, is really kind of like our target customer just because, you know, obviously they, they put in the investment towards, you know, you know, sourcing-grade brands and whatnot. And they have a little bit higher of a check average so that, you know, If our product increases it by, you know, $7 to $10 is like, you know, they basically like, they're going to recognize that that increase in revenue is, you know, I'm trying to basically just say is that like the kind of mid to upper tier restaurant and bar is kind of like our bread and butter. But that's not to say that, you know, kind of like the neighborhood pub would not equally benefit kind of from our product as well. And so You know, I feel like it's always wrong to say, you know, almost every kind of bar or restaurant is our, is our target customer, but in a sense it really is. How do they find you?

So I'm a, I'm a, I'm a restaurant, I'm a somm, I'm a beverage director. Like, how do they, how do you, how do you get them to sign up for the service? Like, then, and, and the whole bit, how do you find them? How do you get your clients?

Definitely. Definitely. So literally just visit ordersom.com. So it's just ordersom.com. Literally they can sign up in less than 60 seconds. And again, like I would say one of the best kind of things is that when a restaurant signs up, they literally just upload a PDF of their menu and then our product system basically does all of the automatic tagging for them. So they They may have 80 or 100 food items on their menu and, you know, God knows how many hundreds of options.

Can you stream that, Adam, by the way? Sorry.

Give me one sec. I was just doing that.

Yeah, no, most definitely.

So, so, and then how do you handle menu change? So every time— so if I'm signed up once, obviously I'm changing my menu 3 or 4 times a year, right? And then maybe I have a wedding, whatever. Is there— once I'm signed up, is there an easy way to Load my menu up?

Definitely. So you literally just visit the, the menu upload, um, function within our app. You re-upload your menu again and it automatically kind of updates your entire, uh, menu offering within less than 60 seconds. So, um, I mean, our, you know, technology can parse a 40-menu item just as fast as it can parse a 600-item menu all at once for them. And now granted, you know, we always say it's great to show—

actually, can you actually, can you stream here? Can you share your screen and what it looks like?

Definitely, definitely. So now granted, I will say, all right, share screen in the middle.

It says share.

Ah, perfect. There we go. Okay, so just let me know if you can see my screen.

Not yet.

You guys can see it?

No, not yet.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Sorry.

And we're streaming live on YouTube, Substack, and Facebook, but for some reason LinkedIn didn't work today. But I'm going to actually publish this today, later on today.

So wonderful.

So perfect.

So let me know if, um, uh, if you can see it.

Okay, fantastic.

All right, wonderful. So basically, you know, once you visit ordersom.com, you'll see this screen. And so we always say it's kind of like your personal sommelier, you know, in your pocket. And so you can, one, create your guest account if you'd like. And so this is basically for diners, or you can start your restaurant here. You, you know, punch in your establishment's name, your name, your email, your password, you agree to the terms of service. So here I can actually—

Do you have like a beta site you could show us?

No, granted, this is actually kind of like the full-scale kind of— you guys are getting the full-scale preview. So I actually— I'm trying to also figure out how to create kind of like that beta demonstration. But really what I can do is here I can go Um, here. And so here's kind of like our pricing. And so this is what's included. I'll just kind of say, um, so we have 2 different tiers for restaurants or bars to sign up for. Um, and really what I wanted to do is that for each, uh, for each tier, I wanted to really offer, you know, basically the same intelligence and the same features. Really the, the difference between the 2 is you're your restaurant's or bar's capacity. And so what we'll do is that kind of our standard subscription, it serves up to 2,500 guests each month. And so what that means is that, you know, you can have up to 2,500 of your restaurant's customers or your bar's customers create profiles and go through kind of like that custom experience. Or if you sign up for our signature kind of tier, it doubles that capacity up to 5,000 guest sessions each month. And so what you'll see is that, you know, you can personally—

You're basically replacing the menu. Hold on a second. Yeah, because my menu is not Adam's menu. So I go sit down in the restaurant and I look at my menu.

Yeah.

And Adam's sitting right next to me on his phone or his app. It might look different. Is that what you're telling me?

So what the great thing about our product too is that what we do is that we customize your perfect, you know, dinner, lunch, breakfast, brunch, or drink order. And then what we do is that below that, we reorganize the entire restaurant's menu and each section of their menu based on your exact flavor profile. And so what we want to do is say, if, you know, if a restaurant has 8 appetizers, 10 entrees, we will reorganize all 18 of those items And put your top appetizers at the top of that section, your top entree at the top of that section, um, just to make it as easy as possible, uh, for people to find.

So me, I'm gonna see every restaurant I go to, fettuccine Alfredo with chicken.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So yeah, no, and that's one of the, you know, I think again it's all about the discovery. aspect of my product where it's like, a lot of times they always say it's kind of like the tea. There's like a thing in human psychology where there's like a tea area on a menu and it's sort of where people's eyeballs kind of scroll. And so what most restaurants should do is basically put their highest margin or their most ordered items within that area. Because human psychology says that the, you know, the human eyes view that part of the menu the most. And so we want to do again is bring that highest margin or that highest kind of like the best paired food and beverage, you know, selections into that area. And so people will recognize it and select it the most. And so—

Fantastic. You can stop sharing your screen too.

Awesome. And so, you know, I will say kind of during our conversation is that too, like restaurants can decide they can toggle between 0 and 100% whether they want their recommendations, you know, based obviously solely on diners, you know, flavor preferences, or if they want to inject somehow, you know, they also want to toggle the profitability So basically, like, they tag in their dishes or their drinks cost and then the menu price, and then we calculate sort of like what the profit margin is on each dish or menu item. And so they can basically toggle whether they want a 50/50 influence between, you know, pairing it with flavor, you know, guests' flavor preferences and profitability, or whether, you know, they want 100% just Compared to, you know, to guests' flavor preferences or, you know, 80/20, 60/40 splits. So, you know, again, like, I, you know, our app is all about autonomy and customization, personalization. And so we give whatever restaurant operators want in terms of toggling flavor preferences for guests and profitability. Because again, at the end of the day, you got to keep the doors open, you got to pay the utility You gotta, you know, you gotta cover the bills. And so, um, you know, we just, you know, we just want to make sure that again, we're, we're setting restaurants and bars up for success as much as possible.

Fantastic. Well, this hour's coming to a pretty quick close. I know we have one of the most important questions we ask everybody that comes on, uh, Drink Up Podcast, but I'll let Adam take over from here.

Awesome. I've got like 6 more questions that I would love to ask, but we can do that on another episode because this is— it truly is. I mean, it's It's a fascinating intersection of like CPG and consumer buying preferences and marketing and tech. And yeah, so anyway, the most important question, what is the difference, Henry, between success and failure?

Ooh, I love that question. You almost gave me some goosebumps right there. So I would say is that the difference between success and failure. Um, you know, success comes after failing a million times, and I think that success can come for some people who are lucky the first time that they create a company, which is almost never, um, if not ever in existence.

Well, if you read LinkedIn, they say it is, but go ahead.

Yeah, yeah. It's like you'll hear, oh my gosh, You just keep going, just keep going. And it's just like, no, you'll keep going forever. You know, I would say is that I don't know, I think that like success is just failure in a disguise where it's like, or is it failure is just success in disguise?

Yeah.

Failure is success in disguise where it's like every single time you fail, you learn something incredibly important that will lead you closer and closer and closer to success. And so I always say fail fast, fail wonderfully, but make sure you're damn well, you know, learning lessons every single time you fail. Because if you don't, you're going to fail worse every single time. So again, it's like if you fail, you're actually getting closer to success. But if you don't fail, you're honestly, you're never going to reach success because I've never met a successful person that hasn't failed. Epically or even failed small, you know? So again, I think failure is just the main ingredient of success, which is weird to say, but true.

Super true. Yeah. I mean, I, even in my own, you know, one of the things I love you called out, love that you called out, I'll put it this way, is whether it's LinkedIn or anywhere else, right? You either see, you know, the 3 times, you know, founded and exited and, you know, I'm worth a gajillion dollars like you mentioned earlier, right? But you never see, you know, I made a post, I don't know, fucking a year ago or something now where I was like, I want to see the 12 non-exits that happened before that, right?

Yep.

Make that your title. That will, that will make me far more interested in talking to you, A, or B, Right. To your point, yeah, I exited and sold, you know, or, or whatever the, the process was, X number of businesses, but I made $50. You know what I mean? Like, be real about that part too.

Definitely.

So I think that's the part I'll leave you guys with, and I'll turn it over to you two to wrap up. Like, even for Bri and I, like, we had a camper van business for about 3 years, right? And it was a great experience. We got to take some cool trips with the van ourselves. We met some cool people. It saved us some money on some taxes, but like, it was very much one of those things when people are like, oh, would you do it again? Fuck no, right?

Yeah.

By the time, by the time we sold that thing, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Like, I was tired of cleaning it. I was tired of being like worrying, and thank God it never happened, but worrying like, is somebody gonna get into an accident with it, right? And then when we did sell it, we broke even. I sold the van. The business wasn't making enough money to actually sell the business for a profit. So like we just offloaded it, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's one of the things where it's like, you know, oh, you, you had a business. It's not as sexy as it sounds every time. Right. Yeah. So anyway.

Oh, 100%. So I feel like I could not have said it better myself. So yeah, I, I mean, it's, but again, it's like, you know, if you sold it for a, you know, and made $100, that is damn well 1,000 times better. than losing a million dollars. But to be honest too, is that like, honestly, like pursuing a business and pursuing your passion and turning your passion into an actual living, breathing thing, that is worth more, I feel like, than any amount of money on this planet. So yeah.

No, I'd agree. Um, Sam, you want to wrap us up?

Yeah. Um, I just like, we just go around a little round robin real quick. Um, any closing thoughts, Henry, that we didn't or things that you want to share with our audience that we didn't share, or just, uh, some parting wisdom thoughts?

Yeah, no, I mean, the, the only, the only thing that I, I leave with any, you know, group of students I ever meet with is just follow your passion. And if you choose to follow your passion, turn your passion into an actual reality, uh, for yourself, for your family, for the world, you know. You're not just creating a product or service for yourself, you're creating it for the betterment of the world. So I always, you know, kind of leave the, you know, any group with that kind of parting wisdom.

Amazing. Adam?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I just, I loved having you on. I think your perspective's cool. I think we obviously talk to a lot of people who are either making products or are service providers like Sam and myself For making products. Don't get me wrong, I love those people's stories too, but I think one of the reasons I was really excited to have you on, and I very much enjoyed what we talked about, was your goal of living in the middle of like, hey, I'm not making a product in the traditional sense. I'm also not necessarily a service provider in the traditional sense. I'm trying to live in the middle of creating something to connect those two in a way that is meaningful for the individual, right? Absolutely. So I thought that was really insightful and really cool. So that's my takeaway for today. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

So, so for me, this is an incredible discussion for several reasons. I shared my journey I'm on with my dog, and then you were so kind to share that you're a cancer survivor. And, you know, at 18, you had a choice to make. You could have given up, or you could have You know, pulled yourself up and kept going. And you certainly didn't know the outcome of that.

Definitely.

You know, it's, it's amazing, Henry, to see the life force in you in this conversation and what you've been able to create. You're on your 3rd company. And they said you were born an entrepreneur. You started at 3 years old selling the lemonade on the side of the road. And, you know, for all entrepreneurs out there or founders or whatever journey you're on, or you lost your job last week, Look at Henry. He's 26 years old and he's on his third company. He's a cancer survivor and he's created a very clear why he wants to actually, you know, bring, you know, experiences to worlds through this, this app, you know, that you basically can go in and have it customized to your, you know, flavor profile, your drink preferences. Just amazing. It gives me hope for my son Madison. By the way, has a company called Top Crush. We got shut down by Meta because anyway, it's back up. Yeah, so Meta came right after him because they used Threads Crush, but they changed it to Top Crush. Yeah, you know, it's talk about being on the the bottom of the barrel trying to figure it out. You know, they got 700 people and 75 subscribers that paying subscribers. But I'd love to connect you up with him. You guys, you're a couple years younger than he is, but. But I'd love to have you talk to him if you don't mind. So that's what, you know, I'm assuming— I don't want to put you out there on the spot. You know, we're live. I want to thank everybody for being on the podcast today. We'll be streaming this live on LinkedIn, or not live, but I'm going to stream it again this afternoon, figure out how to do that.

Awesome.

And then we'll publish our newsletter and we'll have it out there and Spotify, Amazon Music. My gosh, we're everywhere now. Apple Podcasts, everywhere, Adam, in terms of where we can find this podcast, which is amazing. But thank you too. I'd ask you both to remain on the line because we have to do the download, and it's usually Adam that's the slowest of everybody. So this is a reminder. So thanks everybody. Have a good weekend.