012 "Food as Medicine!" With Dr. Anh!

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So while you're going through pharmaceutical training, how much nutritional stuff do you guys dive into?

Oh my goodness, you've just hit the nail on the head. You know, I maybe recall every lecture we would spend 5 minutes talking about non-pharm treatment, non-pharmacologic treatment. And it was— it's so funny because every lecture would be, okay, if a patient has this condition, these are the different options options: 1, nutrition; 2, you know, exercise and stress reduction; and then 3 would be medications. But because the list of medications was so long, we would spend the rest of the lecture focusing on the medications. And you're right, it was a very kind of dismissive approach to, you know, nutrition, oh, that's great, but there's all these sexy shiny objects and pharmaceuticals that we can talk about. And so that's what happened.

Congratulations, Lyme Fighter! Today you had the courage to open your eyes and face another day. Welcome to Lyme Voice. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place. Each episode is designed to inspire, educate, and encourage you on your Lyme journey to wellness. Together we will fight. Together we will heal. Together we will live. Here are your hosts, Aaron and Sarah Sanchez.

Hello friends, welcome to Lion Voice. We are so happy to be here. I have with me in the studio Sarah.

Hello.

We hope everything's going good in your life. We wanted to tell you a little bit about what's been going on with ours. Some of you may have remembered in past episodes we are planning to attend the, the Living Well with Lyme disease conference in Rhinebeck, New York. Had a great time, got to meet some friends and meet some old friends for the first time. Actually, McKay Rippy from Lyme Ninja graciously drove out 3 hours just to meet us in person, which meant a ton to us, and we really appreciate it— appreciated it. Very encouraging time with him and was really, really a nice, a nice time. But along with that, we also got to go to a wonderful conference this weekend, which we will tell you more about, uh, in another episode. We actually have some interviews with some of the attendees and some recordings that we're putting together, but we'll have that upcoming in the next few weeks. One of the things that we really liked about the conference is we have noticed some emerging themes coming out with with Lyme and Lyme treatment. You know, with Lyme treatment, if you've been in the game at all, if you've been trying to heal yourself and educate yourself, the first thing you notice is there is a lot of different information out there. There's a ton of information, and one person says, oh, I was healed on this, and, you know, another person does another treatment, they, oh, I was healed on this, and it really is a little bit overwhelming and confusing as you first get into it. So if this is you and you're kind of overwhelmed by all the Lyme treatment options and Lyme treatment protocols and, and diets, Lyme treatment diets, oh my goodness, I mean, there's, there's so much. But what we really wanted to do is kind of take out some of the themes, and one of the themes that we saw in Reinbeck and one of the themes that goes along with this episode with Dr. Ann is nutrition. We are quickly realizing that there is not a pill to fix this necessarily. What we can do is improve our nutrition, and people that are doing that are experiencing health relief as well, pain relief, symptom reduction. Health nutrition is, is very key to this. So we're really excited to bring Anne on today because she brings logical perspective to it. She basically saw what was not working and started looking for a different option, and food being that. And, you know, it's kind of the same, the same attitude that Dr. Horowitz displayed as well, Dr. Tom, and, and Katina Makris from Limelight Radio. It's just a very common sense, hey, this doesn't work, let's try something different. And one of, again, one of the things I really wanted to highlight is nutrition, but also gluten-free. I have a little bit of a confession to make. I have not been gluten-free up until this point.

And me and Nate have been gluten-free for 5 and a half years.

Yeah. I have known for a while that it has not been good for me, but I think this weekend really solidified that in my mind that this is a decision I need to make. And it, you know, at the time I was very excited about it, and a little later down the week I started thinking, hey, Beer has—

Beer has gluten.

So that was a little bit of a reality for me, but okay, you know what, my health is more important than the beer on the weekends. And so I have to confess that I'm making the the switch over to gluten-free and looking at more and more ways to improve my health along with Sarah's. Because really what it comes down to, if you're gonna beat Lyme, you have to be a bigger person. Lyme attacks every part of your life. It will attack your relationships, your finances, your spirit, your spirituality, your faith. If you want to overcome Lyme You have to be bigger than the disease, which that means if it's attacking an area in your life and you're not happy about that, you have to be bigger than that. You have to improve yourself past that. That's a hard reality, and I think—

oh yeah, I mean, and it's so daunting because, yeah, the people who really are having to do this are very sick. I was very, very, very sick when I started doing implementing all these things. And so you're operating at a much lower level. Yeah, you are. You're operating on fumes. And then because there's not a global strategy for treating Lyme, you are left to figure it out on your own. So you're left to kind of become your own scientist and physician. And it took me—

not—

it did not take me very long to realize I knew way more than my primary. My primary had no clue. The doctors I had been seeing had no clue. And so, and that bothered me initially. Like, I kept wishing my chiropractor would be on the same page as my physician, and my physician would be on the same page as the pain management clinic. But ultimately, you do have to really figure it out, the burden, because 'cause it's still in newer phases, you are left to figure out what works for yourself and what's available to you within your resources.

Yeah. Yeah, and that is extremely hard. And even, um, you being sick and even me being the healthy one trying to manage everything else, to incorporate a new diet change into our already tapped-out system was overwhelming. But once we started to make those changes, once we started to put 10% effort, we started to see 90% and 80% change in your health and in our— us as a lot— in our lives as we put the little bit of effort. And it's really hard. I do understand how hard it is for you, for, for someone with Lyme or someone dealing with Lyme, it is really hard.

Yeah, because you do, you have a lot less energy, you have less resources, and within those very structured things, you also have to do way more than the average person because your body isn't working correctly. So you do have to do coffee enemas or do juice or be on medications in order to keep functioning. And, and I think that's something that I really appreciated even about Dr. Ann's interview and even at Rhinebeck, really the overriding theme was you have got to figure it out. If the physicians in your life don't understand how to treat you, you gotta figure it out and try to find a physician who does. And so even Dr. Horowitz, the book he wrote, Why Can't I Get Better, is written for a physician. So even as we're sitting there and he's like— I was like drinking out of a fire hose. He's like—

Oh yeah.

Got all this data and all this information, and yet that's what, that's what we need because we, a lot of us in that room, knew that we knew more than our, than our primary physicians, and that's a scary place to be.

It is.

Because I remember, I remember right before I went out to Invita in 2013, I remember telling him my brain is not working, I can't remember anything, and I'm supposed to be the one figuring out all this stuff. Like, I don't understand adrenal support, and I don't understand all these different components that seem so integral to getting better.

Right. Yeah, so we've said it before, but if you can find a Lyme literate physician of any sort, of any help, um, that is really important. And, um, you know, even someone like us who have been through Lyme team up with them and just find out what they've done. If any of you ever have any questions, we would love to answer any questions you guys have. Please just feel free to email us or contact us on our Facebook page. Our email, you can reach me at aaronsanches@gmail.com and sarah@linevoice.com. Love to hear from you.

Everything we learned at the conference, Dr. Ann is addressing all of that in this episode. Yeah, we really hit on a lot of really key topics, and so I think you guys will really enjoy hearing her perspective. And, um, yeah, yeah. And I think another thing to keep in mind is that all of the treatments are going to affect people differently, but like a treatment for one person, an essential oils treatment, might literally keep their body, their immune system functioning at a level to where they don't lose other aspects of their life. And I think that that's kind of the approach we need to take is, okay, this might help me keep my legs. This other approach might help my adrenal functions. This other approach might help the bacterial infection. And you do have to kind of bring all those things together and figure that out. Yeah, but it's worth the effort.

Yeah.

And if you can't find a cheerleader, we would be happy to be your cheerleader and coach as well. Keep listening to Lion Voice. I mean, we started our, our, our episode by saying good job in keeping your— in, in waking up and facing another day, because it is literally that hard. And when you do it every day, you get used to it. And maybe next tomorrow You can add in a gluten-free meal instead of a full gluten-free day, but try one meal and see how you like it.

Yeah, it's, again, it's a struggle, and I just think for me, I thought a struggle was not— I just thought I was doing something wrong if I was still struggling, and that's not the case. Struggle is the proof that you have not yet been conquered, and so to embrace it and realize that this is part of the struggle, but you're fighting for your life. I mean, you're fighting for the health of your family, you're fighting for the health of your grandkids. And even for us, I went away and did a treatment protocol, but just for the cost involved, that's not accessible for us with our kids. Yeah. So we are all just having to figure it out, and eventually we'll be able to pool all that information and come up with a global strategy or come up with a medication. But within that, there's so much support you can do for your body and your health aside from whatever your antibiotic protocol is.

Yeah, and don't fear either. The change is coming. Like I said, we'll talk more about this late in an upcoming episode, but the reports from Dr. Howitz, and he's been in touch with a lot of congressmen pushing bills to the Senate Change is coming, and it's through doctors like that and doctors around the country and, and people like yourselves who are raising their voice and making a difference in those around them, making others aware. Share this podcast with maybe someone that doesn't have Lyme so they can have a picture of what it is to have Lyme.

Yeah, and I think you guys are gonna really enjoy this because she does bring the perspective of someone who is very involved with food as medicine, but also from the pharmaceutical side.

So today's guest is Dr. Anne, and she is the host of a popular podcast, The Food as Medicine Show with Dr. Anne. She is a board-certified pharmacist and health coach specializing in treating cholesterol without medications. She became a pharmacist because she wanted to provide people with the medications that she believed would help them get better. After years of working as a pharmacist for a few years, she quickly realized that the root cause of many chronic conditions that people take medications for can be prevented through proper nutrition, exercise, and stress reduction. She believes that about 80% of all chronic illnesses are preventable through diet and lifestyle, and now she has changed her focus, changed to a dedication to help people use food food as medicine and truly heal themselves so that they can live healthy and vibrant lives.

And I think you guys are really going to enjoy it.

Welcome everybody. Today we have Ann Nguyen on the line. We're so excited to have her. Ann, are you ready to help us put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place.

Yes.

All right.

All right. And tell us the story of how you came to be doing your podcast called Food Is Medicine.

Yeah, you know, I am a traditionally trained pharmacist, and I went into pharmacy because I believed that by being a pharmacist, I would give people medications and they would get better. And very quickly, You know, as I started working as a pharmacist, I realized that wasn't the case. You know, I would, I would watch my patients come in month after month, and I'd see them, I dispensed their medications, and they were actually getting worse from month to month. You know, sometimes I would see more medications being added on, their symptoms still weren't controlled, and they didn't have energy, they felt like crap. And I was just like, what's going on? You know, why aren't they getting any better? And so it just really got me thinking, I was like, okay, I must be wrong then because this is not working. And so I just said, okay, what, you know, let's, let's take a step back and take a look at it from a different perspective. And luckily where I worked, we also had a pharmacy clinic where one of the things we did was we would screen people for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and, you know, high blood sugar. And we did that for employer groups. So employers would pay us to screen their employees and and see if we could try to identify the people who would be most at risk, honestly, to cost them a lot of money in health insurance. And yeah, and so, so we, we did that. And then we got to talking to these employer groups and we said, okay, now that we've identified your most high-risk employees, what do you think about us meeting with them on a monthly basis to talk about lifestyle changes, talk about their medications, and try to find ways for them to get better control of their conditions, you know, start to eat better, exercise more, and then minimize and reduce those risk factors so then eventually they're gonna have— be less of a risk for you. And they said, great. And so I became a health coach, and that's when I really discovered that I could really make an impact on people. And rather than trying to be reactive and giving them a medication to control their condition, how about we approach it from, you know, the being proactive and, you know, helping them take care of their health and their nutrition at the beginning and preventing those conditions from happening in the first place. And so that's how— and I fell in love with that, you know. I saw, you know, if I could really get people to change their behavior, then we could prevent this whole pathway of chronic condition and disease and illness. And so that's been, that's been so exciting for me. And that's when I said, okay, there's a time and a place for medications, and they're important, but they shouldn't be the first first-line option for most people. And what I found is a lot of the chronic conditions that people suffer from in the United States, 80% of those could be prevented by eating properly, you know, moving, and having a positive mindset. So it's been really encouraging.

Now, we have— we encountered that whole same situation where I was going to the doctors year after year with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia as a diagnosis. And I don't remember one time anyone ever talking to me about nutrition. Yeah, not, not one time. And I mean, I was at the pharmacy by the time I went way downhill. I was on 12 medications, and sometimes I felt like I talked to the pharmacist more than anyone else.

Yeah, which is so encouraging to hear your story, Anne, because it, I mean, it gives us hope that there is other medical professionals like yourself who are thinking, hey, there's a problem here, and we can at least acknowledge it and look for and go away from the traditional medicine. Uh, you know, that your attitude, um, throughout this whole situation or throughout your whole journey here is very unique, and we're so pleased to be talking to you today because It's— I mean, you're like a breath of fresh air for us.

Why, thank you. You know, and, you know, I feel like I have a pretty open mind, and I— so I just, from observing my patients, like, you know, there were some of them who, like you were saying, Sarah, had 12 medications a month. I remember there was one patient I was filling 20 medications a month for him, and I was just like, it just broke my heart because I just like, what is this doing for you? It's really not helping you get better. And, and then, you know, when I thought about his medications, I was like, you know, there are some things we could probably remove because we— they were probably just added on to cover up or reduce a symptom that was caused by another medication. And there's like this whole cascade of events that happened. So, you know, I think when we sit back and think critically about what can we actually remove and minimize and get to the root of the problem, a lot of it is nutrition. And so, you know, it's a whole new world for me, and I'm definitely still learning, but it's just exciting because you're right, it's There's a new tide of healthcare practitioners who, they practice functional medicine, and it's where instead of putting a band-aid where, you know, someone comes and they say, I have chronic pain, and you give them a pain medication, you start peeling back the layers and looking at their lifestyle and their environment and what are they eating and trying to figure out what is the root cause of the problem and fixing that rather than putting on the, putting on a band-aid for that problem.

Right.

Yeah. And, you know, I've heard it said— it was a frustration of mine for many years because as I would read stuff about, um, you know, healing yourself from chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and all these things, it always went back to nutrition as far as the books I was reading. And yet when I would talk through my— talk through those thoughts with my doctors, they were very negative or just dismissive. Yeah, very dismissive. Like, oh well, you can try it, but you're not going to benefit from it. And it took me a couple of years to realize these guys don't really— this is not their area of expertise, and I need to choose a doctor who does have nutrition as an area of expertise. So while you're going through pharmaceutical training, how much nutritional stuff do you guys dive into?

Oh my goodness, you've just hit the nail on the head. You know, I maybe recall every lecture we would spend 5 minutes talking about non-pharm treatment, non-pharmacologic treatment, and it was— it's so funny because every lecture would be, okay, if a patient has this condition, these are the different options. 1, nutrition. 2, you know, exercise and stress reduction. And then 3 would be medications, but because the list of medications was so long, we would spend the rest of the lecture focusing on the medications. And you're right, it was a very kind of dismissive approach to, you know, nutrition, oh, that's great, but there's all these sexy shiny objects and pharmaceuticals that we can talk about. And so, so that's what happened. And so because we didn't get a lot of that our brain doesn't naturally go that route when we think about how do we treat a patient with a certain symptom or condition. So unfortunately, that's what happens is, you know, if you don't have a certain level of comfort with a therapy or a treatment regimen, then you're not gonna really consider it as a viable option. So yeah, I mean, and I know from my friends too in medical school, maybe they would get an hour lecture on nutrition, but that definitely was not the focus focus of our education. It was definitely the drug therapies that we would dive deep into.

So now, is that because, um, because the pharmaceutical industries are kind of shaping the medical field by what they support, or what's the dynamic that shapes that lack of nutritional approach?

You know, that is— that's a great question. And the more I look into it, you know, the more I kind of having my suspicions about how the modern medical education has been funded and created. You know, I forget the— it was a Rockefeller, one of the big major families in America, and they said, you know, we will fund research, medical research, so long as it's tied back to the solution for for the treatment of a condition being a pharmaceutical or a chemical that can be patented and that can— there could be money made from it. And I don't, you know, so I don't know if that's kind of the crux of it, but I know, you know, I'm actually having someone come on my show to talk about— he used to be a pharmaceutical sales rep, and his story about, you know, and a lot of my friends go into this arena too pharmaceutical industry where you as a pharmacist are trained to tell doctors about the drug studies that occurred and that showed, you know, we are supposed to present the data in a non-biased way. But if your employer is the producers of this medication and your job depends on doctors writing more of this drug, you know, you're going to highlight the positive information from the trials and not really mention the negative negative results of the trials. And I see this happen all the time, or, you know, they present the data in such a confusing way or just easy way to misinterpret. An example would be, so if a drug reduced somebody's blood pressure from, you know, 160 over 100 to 155 over 100, over 100. That's a very small difference, right? If you look at the absolute difference. But if you take it and you do a percentage of that, like you calculate the, the percent change, um, it could— I don't know what the math is— say it'd be like, oh, it reduced the blood pressure by 30%. Like, it sounds so much better. Well, then when you say it, I only lowered it by 5 points, right? So, so people use percentage, and it's called like relative risk reduction, to, um, to make it appear as if the drug is having a much better effect. And so this happens all the time where, you know, drug reps present the data in a misleading way. Medical education is funded in such a way where you get invited to this fancy dinner at a really nice restaurant and you get to hear about this new drug and how wonderful it is. And the person presenting the data is someone who's a well-respected physician in your community or in your circle. And so then you have this built-in bias of, okay, well, someone I respect is talking about the benefits of this drug, this must be a good drug kind of thing. So I think there's a lot of things that come into play as to why there's such a heavy emphasis on medications and pharmaceuticals and less of an emphasis on nutrition. You know, you can't patent a strawberry, right? You can't, you can't patent So for example, there's a compound in daffodils that they discovered is helpful in patients with— I'm blanking now because I don't have it. So it's for dementia, I think. And so this compound, they said, okay, well, we'll make a compound in the lab that is going to be similar to that that compound found in daffodils, because now we can patent it and we can sell it, right? So they, but they, so they, they, they add a chemical structure that's very similar to this, this naturally occurring substance. But what we don't understand, and we don't find out until years later after, you know, after the drug's been on the market, by adding and changing the chemical, chemical structure just a little bit, how that can impact the body in a negative or a positive way. And so, so there's unintended consequences of modifying a chemical structure. Yeah, so it's very interesting. And, you know, for me, when I look back on the history of pharmacy, the drug industry kind of blossomed around the 1940s, you know, when we, you know, after penicillin was discovered and all of that. But way before that, what did we do? We, we had plants You know, we picked plants and we took them and we like crushed them in a little mortar and pestle and we added other oils to it and we made a tincture or whatever it was specific to the person and their ailment. And everything was custom-made for the patient until it became mass manufactured. So, you know, for hundreds of years, we all relied on botanicals and plants before we went to synthetic chemicals and patented products. So yeah, it's, you know, I wasn't around 100 years ago, but I know that there are a lot of things that come into play and that impact how education is done today. And it's like, you know, once you have a system, it's really hard to overhaul the system, right? It's really hard to overhaul how physicians are trained in America or how pharmacists are trained in America. And it starts starting to happen with, you know, functional medicine. It's gaining traction. And the Cleveland Clinic, you know, has it in their curriculum. And other, you know, Duke has an integrative medicine program. So a lot of larger universities and programs are starting to recognize the importance of looking at nutrition and Eastern medicine and putting that into their education. But it's definitely not widespread yet.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And you bring up a really good point, you know, these systems come into play. And not only have things changed radically within the pharmaceutical world, which I'm very thankful for— I went through an 8-week antibiotic, heavy antibiotic program when I was recovering, and I was in such poor shape. I don't know if I could have gotten better without those antibiotics because it was so impactful right away. But I also did— that was like 25% of what I was doing. I I still was doing all this other natural stuff and, um, eating organic. And, and so you bring up another good point, like, in addition to the pharmaceutical world having been kind of set on this path, even the grocery store food has changed drastically in this— in the last century. Yeah, because, yeah, if you— when you walk into a grocery store, all those shelves, how much of that food is actually real food?

Yeah, processed Frankenfood.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it's, and it's been reduced, it's been torn apart genetically, you know. I mean, it's amazing the lengths they can take food to. It's, it's downright scary because, I mean, you look up the ingredients and when the ingredients are, you know, 15 times longer than than the nutritional value.

Hello. Yeah, it's crazy, you know. So wheat— I don't know if you follow a gluten-free diet. I do. Yeah, yeah, I highly recommend people to do that because, you know, again, in the '50s and '60s, we were preparing for famine in America. And so there were some scientists that were given the task of how do we produce a higher yield of wheat of the wheat product to prevent our nation from dying of starvation. What happened was the starvation never came, and then we engineered this crop that could grow faster and produce a higher yield in a smaller amount of land. We've created this product that now is everywhere in all of our foods You know, gluten is found as a binder in mayonnaise. It's found in soy sauce. You know, it's found everywhere, and our bodies cannot digest it. It's, it's a, it's a foreign substance. And so it's causing a lot of immune problems with our bodies not recognizing it, cause thinking it's, it's an invader, so it attacks it. And then we have these autoimmune conditions arising because of the food that we're eating. So you're right, I mean, the supermarkets too, you know, they're owned— or the food industry is big agribusiness now. And so, you know, when big businesses take over the food industry, the drug industry, it's very difficult to be, you know, to know where everything comes from. And but you have to be educated and know, okay, this is the way I should be eating, or at least take notice when I eat this way, I don't feel so good, and then start investigating for yourself what's going to be the best nutrition plan for you. Because, you know, honestly, I, I get asked that question a lot, like, okay, what's the best— what should I be eating? Just tell me what I need to eat. And, you know, I can give you a template and that could get you about 75% of the way, but everyone has different genes. We have We had different environments growing up and we have different stress factors. So all those things come into play as to how we absorb our food and utilize the nutrients from our food. And so the template I can give you will get you 75% of the way, and then the rest of the way you need to, you know, write down in your food journal what's working for you, what's not working for you. If you eat something, do you feel worse right away? Do you first feel worse 3 days later? And then you can start kind of demystifying your own body and figuring out what what actually works well for you because maybe I can't tolerate dairy but someone else can, that kind of thing. It's very individualized.

Sorry, me and Sarah interrupting each other. We're holding up our hands to each other. No, I want in.

I want in.

Just to go back on what you were saying there about about the food. And, you know, some of our, some of our, our listeners today are just on their beginning. They just found out they had Lyme. They're just trying to educate themselves, and going off gluten seems a bit overwhelming. But I will have to testify that it is so much better for you, uh, just like Anne was saying. I think as a nation, we have to realize that even as we were talking about pharmaceuticals, We cannot operate one pill fixes it. We cannot operate one plan fixes it. That isn't working. And if you're dealing with Lyme, you're just starting out with on this process, unfortunately you're going to find out the, you know, really quick that there is not one fix for you out there. You can't go on the internet and find one fix.

You have—

I mean, it's not a one pill situation anymore. Even I think and, and you're bringing up some of the pharmaceutical transitions within yourself and within the community. We as a nation are starting to slowly realize this is important, this is necessary, and we need to start acting a lot more responsible with our health. And I think as a nation we've gotten lazy, and I can speak for myself, you know, in the past—

you know, anyway, you know, I— that's one of the reasons I kind of got tired of the pharmaceutical industry, because people then was just like, just give me the pill to fix my cholesterol, just give me the pill to fix my pain. But they weren't empowering themselves to find out, okay, what am I doing that's causing this pain? Why am I— what am I eating that's causing me to have high cholesterol, and how do I fix that, right? And taking ownership of that. And so, and unfortunately, when you have Lyme disease or some other chronic condition, sometimes you just have to be your own best advocate and you have to figure out for yourself what's gonna— what you need to fix so that you can feel better and so that you can function the way you want to function. Because, you know, if, if you're okay with not having all level 10 energy all day, that's— then that's fine. But if you want to have level 10 energy so you can play with your kids and have energy to play with your grandkids, then something needs to change, right? And you should take ownership of that and want to explore and figure out how do you eat differently, move differently, think differently so that you have level 10 energy, right?

And let's fast forward a few years to 2025, 2030. What do you think from your perspective? What is going to be something that we look back on and think nutritionally, like with our food or wow, we've really missed the ball on this one.

Yeah, you know, I think gluten-free is a big one. I think without a doubt, you know, I would say that Dr. Fasano is kind of the leading researcher in this arena, and he says no humans are able to digest gluten. And so, you know, you might have— people might have varying degrees of gluten sensitivity, from, you know, celiac where you just can't have it at at all, to just a minor sensitivity where maybe, like myself, when I eat gluten, it doesn't really do much except it gives me a little bit of a rash on my hand and it doesn't impact— I don't have pain from it or anything. But so you can have all these different degrees of being affected by gluten, but just the more you keep, so to speak, like pouring salt on the wound, the more your activating your immune system and causing it to, to keep on guard when it really doesn't have to. And so when you keep activating your immune system in that way, it's going to crap out eventually, right? And it's gonna start attacking things that you don't want it to attack, and, and then you're gonna have a whole, whole host of other problems that could have been prevented if you just you know, ate mindfully. So that's one. You know, genetically modified foods. I think the intention at the beginning was noble. Coming from a science background, you know, I remember being so fascinated learning about the different genetic modifications you can do to corn and thinking about how that could increase yield and, or, you know, improving the yields of rice and helping to feed the kids in China, or, you know, now that we know that salmon has so many good benefits with omega-3s, trying to produce more salmon in a faster way. But then we don't understand what's going to happen when we tinker with nature. So, you know, now that we know if one of those salmon species gets into the wild, it can completely destroy native salmon species within several years. So all the genetic modifications that we think are going to be beneficial We're only starting to understand that there's huge repercussions for our environment and for our bodies. So I think we need to stop doing that and just get back to using organic seeds and not using patented genetically modified seeds. And factory farming of animals, I think that's another big thing. That's changing the makeup of the nutrients in the animals that we're eating. So, you know, we want the, the protein from animals, and that's good, but when their omega-3s, which are their healthy anti-inflammatory fats, are overpowered by the omega-6s because they're force-fed grain diets and they live in cramped conditions and they don't have sunlight and they're given antibiotics and growth hormones to grow grow faster, that changes the makeup of their muscle tissue. And then when we eat that, that impacts us as well. And so, you know, that— and Sarah, you talked about antibiotics. Believe it or not, I think it's 70% of antibiotics used in our country are used in animals to increase production, and it's not used used to, to treat antibacterial infections in humans.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you said 75% of the antibiotics used in the United States?

Is that— Yes, 70% is used in animals currently.

To make them grow faster?

To make them grow— so, so to prevent them from getting sick because they're being grown in such cramped conditions. Right. Eating and pooping in the same space and to help them grow faster, exactly. So most of the antibiotics in this country are not used in humans.

Wow.

Which is so scary.

That is so scary because the problem that presents is antibiotic resistance. We talk about this in the hospitals all the time where we have superbugs evolving because, you know, antibiotics are everywhere. And so then just like we are, all species want to further their species. So bacteria are the same way. They want to further their species. So if you're going to have an antibiotic that's going to kill the species, the ones that remain are going to find ways to adapt, to multiply and enhance the genes that made them survive. And then you have a superbug and now you have to find a drug to try to kill this superbug, and then the cycle continues because you're not gonna kill all these bugs. And, you know, every year we talk about this antibiotic doesn't work anymore, this antibiotic doesn't work anymore, and it's a huge problem. You know, I'm so thankful that I've been very healthy, or for the most part, and I haven't had extended stays in the hospital. 'Cause, you know, when people have extended stays in the hospital, If they survive whatever got them in the hospital, they might get a hospital-induced infection, and that could be what kills them, right? So it's crazy. So I think that's one of the other big things that we're gonna look back and say we really messed up and we really should try to figure out how to not use antibiotics and let animals graze on pasture like they were meant to and maybe eat more sustainably. And eat head to tail, that movement of, you know, instead of just eating muscle meat, we need to eat the bone, the feet, the liver, everything of the animal. And I think that will start to turn the tide for our food industry.

Wow.

Well, that is quite a journey.

Yeah.

You're leading us on that, right?

Well, yes, and the paleo movement is— doing that too, so I'm really thankful that that's gaining traction.

Yeah, yeah, we eat pretty close to paleo. We haven't eliminated grains, but we hope to soon.

Wow.

So, okay, most of our audience that's listening in, um, they're— most of them have chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, um, energy crises where every effort really takes so much out of them. So as a nation, while we're upping our dependency on antibiotics, we're also lowering, lowering our immune system function across the board. And one of the things that has been huge for me, and I juice for most everyone, is juicing. And because it just allows all those natural enzymes—

tell everybody what juicing is in case they haven't heard of that.

Juicing is juice is just breaking down, separating the whatever vegetable or fruit you use, separating the fiber out of it. And it allows you to consume far more minerals and enzymes than you would if you were actually eating them, because your body doesn't have to expel the energy to harvest those nutrients. They're available readily without the fiber intake. So, but Anne, for our our audience, these things are really hard. I tried juicing on and off for quite a while before I really embraced it and could implement that. If somebody is dealing with chronic fatigue and they really can only implement one thing to really jumpstart their immune system, what do you recommend?

Oh yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, I I think you have a great point. Juicing is awesome. You're right, the enzymes are readily available. You know, you think of just like a capsule, right? If you take a capsule and you swallow it, your body has to open the capsule and extract what's inside of it before you can use it for its effect. And similarly, if you're chewing food, your body needs to digest it and break it down into into its smallest building blocks, whether it's amino acids or glucose, in order to get energy. So juicing is great because, you know, it's already broken down and you, you're just, you just absorb it. You know, I think the other thing is just to eat clean, right? So when you are eating foods that don't have toxins in them, then your body isn't going to expend extra energy to try to sequester those toxins. And try to also detoxify them. So a lot of this— so glutathione is a chemical or compound in our body. It's a natural antioxidant that your liver makes. And so if you're eating food that, you know, has pesticides or whatever, you're going to use glutathione to try to minimize the effects of the pesticides. And if— when you deplete the stores of that, then you're gonna feel fatigued. So, so when you eat cleaner foods, you're gonna maintain or help at least not quickly deplete your supply of your natural antioxidants. Juicing is great. I'm also a fan of blending. I love green smoothies. You know, I think juicing can get kind of expensive because you need a lot of fruits and vegetables to get a glass of juice. Yeah, so, you know, blending kind of is kind of midway point where you do kind of break down some of the fruits and vegetables and they are a little bit more readily available to absorb, and the fiber is still there, so that's gonna help you stay fuller longer too, versus juicing is kind of like a big burst of energy and then you might need a little bit more food a few hours after. So, so I think blending is a good option. Eating more fat. This is something I've been on a big rant or trying to tell everybody about because I used to bodybuild and I used to eat 5 times a day because that's what they told me to do when you're a bodybuilder. What I started learning recently is about ketogenic diets and how when our hunter and gatherer ancestors sometimes didn't have food every 3 hours, you know, maybe they would have a big meal and then they wouldn't have food for several hours or days. And so what kept them going was when they would eat, you know, the fat from the animals. And so, you know, eating the fat from clean animals, so pastured animals, or eating butter— grass-fed butter is awesome— coconut oil, almond butter, olive oil. Not canola oil and not vegetable oil. Those are bad oils. Right. But so when you eat fat, one, it's gonna be super beneficial in terms of energy. It's great in terms of weight loss if that's an issue for people. And it makes you feel satisfied. So you can think more clearly. The reason people have you know, like when they get hangry is because they're eating a lot of carbohydrates and they, they have this like big jump in their blood sugar and then a big dip in their blood sugar. And then when you have that dip, you're like so hungry, you'll just whatever is next to you, you'll stuff in your mouth versus, you know, eating fat. You don't have those big spikes and dips. You're just kind of nice and level in terms of your energy. And then you can think more clearly and you may make better decisions. So, you know, fat— the brain and the body can, can utilize fat so well. We can only store about 1,500 calories in our, in our glycogen stores from carbohydrates. Like, you know, when athletes carb up before marathon, they carb up and they get about 1,500 calories worth stored in their muscles, and that's the limit. But in terms of fat calories You— there is no limit. You can— I mean, you'll— there's a limit to the point where you eat it and then you're full and you can't eat anymore. But like, our body doesn't have a cap on how many fat calories we can store and utilize. So, so that is a great source of— for energy is eating avocados and other high-quality fat sources.

Wow, I've never heard that before.

Interesting. Yeah, and you'll find, like, if you find, like, you eat, like, a high-fat breakfast, like, pastured eggs, lots of butter, you know, cream cheese, do your juice or your smoothie, you might not get hungry until, like, 2 in the afternoon. You might even forget to eat, and that's okay because your body is getting enough nutrients that it doesn't need to eat. And you just listen and say, okay, when it's hungry, then you eat. And you don't have to say, I've to eat like every 4 hours or have a scheduled time to eat. And it becomes more kind of where you— I call it biofeedback. You just listen to what your body is telling you and then you just do what it tells you to do. You know, if you're hungry, you eat, and then when you're not hungry, you stop. So it makes all the thinking and all the, okay, what should I be eating now? Like, it just takes all of that out of the equation.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, it's just stopping and listening to your body and trying to figure out when it works best and why.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, or like noticing, like, if you eat carbs and then you notice, okay, if you eat carbs, like, say I eat toast for breakfast and 2 hours later I'm hungry again, that's a pattern. And then say, okay, well, instead of eating toast for breakfast, now you eat eggs for breakfast, I'm not hungry until 4 hours later. And then do you like that? If you like that, then go ahead and continue, right? And then also notice, okay, do I have more energy? Can I think better when I eat toast versus when I eat eggs? And then that's how you can start to experiment within yourself and see, you know, what's working for you. And if it's working, keep doing it. And if it's not working, then stop doing it.

Hmm, yeah, that's fantastic. And tell us about— tell us, let's just talk through vitamins real quick. I know that certain vitamins get absorbed absorbed more easily than others. And I have a brand of vitamins that I really like. I just feel better when I take them.

How do—

how does the average person gauge the value of a vitamin? Can you trust what you're buying on store shelves? Or, you know, how, how do you even just go about that?

Sure. Yeah. So that is a good question. I think that vitamins, just like medications, have a place in therapy. My preference, if I had to rank them, would be first would be food. And then if you can't get your nutrients from food— or I mean, let's be honest, you know, our food doesn't have all the nutrients like it did back in the 1930s and '40s. So sometimes we do have to supplement. And then for, you know, for people who have Lyme disease or other chronic conditions and they're depleted, they do need supplements just because they just can't possibly eat enough to get all the nutrients that they could that they would need. And then, and then finally would be the drugs. So, so to answer your question with medic— with supplements, looking for the NSF seal, I think it stands for National Science Foundation, but that— or the USP, US Pharmacopeia— those are seals that indicate what is actually inside the capsule or the bottle is what is on the label. The good thing about the pharmaceutical industry is that it's regulated by the FDA, and so what is on the bottle label is what has to be inside the content of the capsule or tablet or whatever. However, supplements are not regulated by the FDA, so there's— there could be a lot of mislabeling or false advertising, etc. So you might find that like there could be very small amounts of vitamin E or vitamin D or whatever that you're taking in the actual tablet that you're taking. So, so when you have the USP seal and the NSF seal, that gives you some confidence that, that it has a labeled amount in it. Okay, so that's a good place to start. I had a pharmacist friend, she was a little bit wacky, and she said, you know, just take a capsule or a tablet and take a hammer and whack it, and if it doesn't disintegrate, then, then you know that it's not going to disintegrate inside your body either. So that's another way you can test, you know, to see if the brand you're taking is good. And, you know, it's practitioner brands, just, you know, look— looking to a naturopath that you trust, or looking to a chiropractor or physician, or someone who has practitioner-grade, pharmaceutical-grade supplements. Standard Process is one.

Oh, that's what I take.

That's—

I love their vitamins. I feel so good on them.

Yes, and they are a whole food supplement, so they're fantastic. Yeah, so, so upgrading to more of like the practitioner-grade supplements is also a way that you know for sure that you're getting what you're paying for.

So does that answer your question? Yeah, absolutely. And as you were talking, you know, whether you're talking about food or medicine or doctors, and you know, even within the vitamin it comes back to, yeah, you just have to do your due diligence and research or wrestle with each of these aspects. And I think even for me initially, when I started to go downhill, I expected to kind of get this information through my doctors, and it took me a couple of years to realize, oh, okay, I have— I really do have to wrestle through all of these things myself.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and with the internet now, it's, it's getting easier to find, even if you might be in a rural area or where, where you live, you might not have a functional practitioner, integrative practitioner, alternative practitioner, or just someone who is knowledgeable in nutrition or other therapies. You can now go online and at least start to see and get information from other people who have expertise in these areas. And, and some of them provide, you know, phone consults or that sort of thing so you don't have to travel. So it's— you're right, it's hard. It's, you know, sometimes you're limited by where you are, but it's becoming a little bit better with the internet to find good information and people who know what they're doing.

Yeah.

And let's see, for people who really want to dive into food as medicine, what are some books books or other resources that you recommend? Yeah, in addition to your podcast.

I totally wasn't even thinking about that, but yes, that's a good place. So, you know, a lot of— anywhere you can find a functional medicine practitioner, they're gonna really have a big focus on nutrition. Some of my favorites are Dr. Mark Hyman. He's the chairman of the Institute for Functional Medicine, and he He's fabulous. He's got tons of great books and an awesome website. For female hormones, I love Dr. Sarah Gottfried. For adrenal issues, there's Dr. Alan Christianson. Dr. Cate Shanahan is awesome. Dr. Lo, she has a podcast, so for listeners who prefer podcasts, she has the Dr. Lo Radio Show. So she's a naturopath and she's great. Chris Kresser, he's a licensed acupuncturist and he's very well-read. He is so brilliant. He loves geeking out on all of the new studies. And, you know, so if you, if you'd like to understand about like the research and the latest, what people are finding out, he's a really good person to break that all down for you. So those are some of my favorites. Awesome. Oh, and books, I guess for books, any of their respective books I think are great. Dr. Shanahan has a book called Deep Nutrition, which is fabulous. Oh, and then Sally Fallon Morell has Nourishing Traditions. So it talks about, you know, bone broth and all the foods that Native people ate and, and why they're important. And then she's got a ton of recipes. To. So, so it's like a cookbook slash like an educational book in one. So I really like that one.

Yeah, that's an excellent book. We've had that one for quite a while.

Yeah.

And remember, all you Lyme warriors out there, if you want an audiobook for free on Lyme Voice, you can go to our website and click the little button and get your free audio download by signing up for, for Audible. And you get to help support Lime Voice in the process.

A win-win. It is. I love Audible. You know, I wouldn't read— I don't typically like to read, but I like to listen to my books, and that's how I get through a lot of books is through Audible. So I think that's a great resource that your listeners should look into.

Yeah, it is. We've started listening. We listen to so many more books than we could ever have read, and I'm addicted to listening as fast as I can. 1.5 speed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I usually do the second time through on 2.

Yeah. Well, okay, before, uh, we're—

we— one more question before we let you go, Anne. Um, tell us, you know, in the last part of our show, we like to talk about how, how, how you can live So tell us, what is something— what's one of the personal health habits that you practice today that's given you a lot of success, something that's really working for you?

Sure, and I think Sarah might like this. I call it goddess time. So, you know, I think as women we really love to take care of others and we put everyone before ourselves. And, um, and I find joy in taking care of others. And so, but what I found was I was just draining myself, like I was just like running myself ragged, and I couldn't be my best self to help others. And, you know, I really— it took me a long time to understand that I needed to take care of myself, um, in order for me to take care of others. And so little things like, um, well, Doc, I learned this from Sarah Gottfried. She, she has Tiara Time So like you can have, you know, maybe go buy a tiara or just have a headband or something to represent when you're wearing this, mommy has her tiara time and you do not disturb mommy during tiara time. And it could be like 15 minutes where you can do whatever you want. You could take a nice, you know, cup of tea and you just sit and enjoy yourself. You know, you can read your Us magazine, you can go for a bubble bath, take a short walk outside, whatever it is that you want to do, that is your time for yourself to regenerate and refresh. And, and you just, you know, don't feel any guilt about it. And that's been wonderful for me, just giving myself that time to put myself first. And, you know, I take 30-minute walks every evening, or try to, maybe every other evening. And it's been wonderful because, you know, the day gets crazy. And maybe because you guys have a lot of kids, after all the kids have gone to bed, just the two of you, you go out for a walk before you go to bed. That really helps calm down your, like, your adrenal system and helps you relax. And could just, like, you put the kids to bed, there's like a bedtime ritual. You should give yourself a bedtime ritual so that you unwind from the day and you you fall into a deeper sleep. And when you get good quality sleep, you're gonna give your body a chance to heal over and restore itself. Oh, and a random aside from, from a pharmacist perspective, if you, you want to take some of your supplements, Sarah, in the evening, because then your body is repairing itself. And when you take your supplements in the evening, you're also providing it the nutrients it needs to repair itself. A lot of people take their vitamins in the morning because it's a morning ritual, right? But if you could remember to try to switch it to the evening, that could work better for you. Awesome. Yeah. Those little things like that. When I read, I really just try to focus on that. It can be just simple rituals that just bring you happiness and joy and finding what those are and carving 15, 20 minutes out of your day to to do that for yourself. I think that's been the thing that's brought me the most health and benefit in the past, I would say, like 2 months or so.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you said that because like we say at the beginning of every show, are you— you know, it's the puzzle pieces that we have to assemble. You know, we can't find it all in one, one pill.

Stop.

It's, it's a bunch of different avenues. It's taking care of yourself, like you said there, and, you know, and all the host of other things. And sometimes it is overwhelming. Oh yeah, certainly hugely overwhelming. I mean, one pill would sure would be a lot easier, but unfortunately, until we get to that point this is what we're left with, and this is what we get to experience. And it's not all drudgery either, you know, food can be enjoyable too. We've enjoyed discovering new foods and discovering new tastes. The kids aren't as excited about all that as us adults, but—

Well, there's a saying like exposure leads to preference, preference. So the more you expose them to it, um, the more they're gonna think it's okay, it's normal, and then they'll, they'll get to a point where they'll, they'll like it. You know, the first time I ate, um, liverwurst, I was like, bleh, but now I enjoy it.

Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you if you wanted to leave us with a quote, but I really like the one you just said— exposure leads to preference. I like that one a lot. Yeah. Do you want to throw another one in on there, Anne?

I think that's good. You kind of put me on the spot. Sorry. Yeah, I think that's good. The other thing that came to mind when you guys were talking was just to— sometimes simplicity is best too, right? So, you know, we think simple food is boring, but it doesn't have to be. Like, one of my favorite recipes is green beans with olive oil, garlic, a little bit of crushed red pepper, and salt. And it's like the most delicious thing ever, and I love eating it. So it could be simple ingredients create beautiful things. So, you know, and keeping it simple makes your life easy too. You don't have to like buy all these fancy ingredients to make things taste good. And then the other thing is too, like you were saying, everyone wishes there was a magic pill to fix everything, but we all understand that the best things in life don't come easily, right? And the fact that you, you have to work to maintain your lifestyle or to improve your health, or you have to work to achieve a certain business goal or a certain career goal or a certain grade in school, that's what makes it so enjoyable when you actually achieve it. So, you know, I think that's a different way to think about it, but it really helps us appreciate the journey a lot more as well.

So yeah, and actually that's really interesting. I was just telling Aaron, because I started juicing— I'm 2 and a half years into doing daily juicing and enemas, coffee enemas— and I told him, I said, for like the first year I had to do it. Like, I just forced myself to make it part of my routine. But then somewhere around 18 months or something into the process, I just came to have this like deep, deep appreciation for it. And what it did for me and what it allowed me to do.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was just reading something from Dr. Hyman the other day, actually, and he was saying if you can spend 5 minutes before a meal and just offer appreciation for the meal and the nutrients it's about to give you, it activates your digestion and it really starts this process of where, you know, you're— you know, I don't know how much science there is into it, but I think it really— you start to appreciate your food more and it starts to work better for you. And, you know, you're gonna enjoy it more and just appreciate the process rather than it being a mechanical thing. It could be a source of joy for you. So I love that, you know. I think just offering appreciation for what you're about to eat or drink, I think, is, is another great step in the right direction.

Awesome. Awesome.

Well, and I hope that was helpful.

Oh, Oh, totally helpful.

Yeah. Yeah, that was fantastic.

Yeah.

Thank you. If people want to find you, we'll of course list all your information on the show notes, but in case people don't get to the show notes, can you quickly give us your—

where they can find you at? Sure. The best place would probably be my website. It's DrAnh.com, and Anh is spelled A-N-H as in healthy. And there actually I have a guide that I created, the Clean Eating Guide: How to Eat to Lose improve your numbers and have more energy. And it's basically everything I learned when I was bodybuilding about nutrition, which basically was opposite of everything I thought I knew in pharmacy school. So what I learned from experience is different from what I learned in school. So I wrote what I learned in the book or in the guide, and you can get that at DrAnn.com. And then that's where you can find my podcast episodes as well. So So that's probably just the best place to go.

Great.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, yeah. I hope you enjoyed that episode.

Join us on our next one as we talk about all that we learned at the Living Well with Lyme Disease conference.

Yeah.

I think you guys are going to be really excited about all the information. We're in— we're also trying to find out exactly how much information we can share with you, but we might be able to to actually provide a couple of resources for you guys to take home from, from the conference, some of the notes from the actual conference. So, uh, have a good week and we'll see you next time.

Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters.

Keep it up. We'll see you next time.

LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such.

Okay, Lincoln?

Okay. The medical information on LionVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay? Okay. LionVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, 'kay?

'Kay.

If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast.

Got it, Lincoln?

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