016 The Generational Lyme Effect

From the creators of Lyme Voice and Disappearing from Society comes a brilliantly simple idea, but this time it comes as a book. Imagine a world in which birds can talk like people. You'll get a bird's-eye view of life with Lyme disease as one bird family must unite to overcome the obstacles of life with Lyme disease. Guaranteed to make you laugh and cry. Written in a way that helps you articulate the losses you are experiencing as a household while simultaneously empowering you to keep fighting. Little Bite, Big Trouble is available today at Amazon.com.

And kind of like being snotty, and you were like, "Hey, you know what? I know he's frustrating, but you can't talk to him like that." And it was interesting because I remember as I was going downhill, because I had a couple days where I'm like not coherent, didn't really understand the time frame, I remember thinking like, "I know my mom will take care of me." Because Kevin was totally gone by the time you were saying that, and yet Congratulations, Lyme Fighter!

Today you had the courage to open your eyes and face another day. Welcome to LymeVoice. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place. Each episode is designed to inspire, educate, and encourage you on your Lyme journey to wellness. Together we will fight. Together we will heal. Together we will live. Here are your hosts, Aaron and Sarah Sanchez.

Welcome everybody to this episode of LymeVoice, and here with me in the studio today are my parents.

Don and Trish, are you ready to help us put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place?

Sure, whatever we can do.

We're on board. Alright, alright, so as you guys know, we follow a fight, heal, live concept. Concept. And one of the things that I feel like is going to be so valuable for our listeners is listening from your guys's perspective. Obviously we talk a lot about hindsight because we see things way more clearly, but I want to talk about fighting as a mindset and really my journey up until a certain point and when we really, I feel like, started fighting. And so my story obviously is my symptoms were masked through my pregnancies and through two car accidents. We kept thinking, okay, now that I'm over that hill, I'll be fine. Now that I'm over that hill, I'll be fine. And we kept assuming that our life was gonna get back on a normal track. That never happened, and it just kept going downhill. And I remember reading and doing a a ton of reading at this point of just desperately searching for some answers. And I had read the Gerson therapy where they were talking about people with chronic fatigue getting better. And at that point, I was beyond— I wasn't capable of doing any more of implementing some of the stuff I thought would help. So I feel like one of the key moments throughout my journey was calling you, Mom, and saying, "I think I just had another visit with the neurologist that led to nothing." And I literally could not sleep, could not function, in a wheelchair, not even able— you were taking care of me quite a bit, but then it was we crossed this threshold where you couldn't take care of me and the kids. Because I remember you had to leave the house to go get one of the kids, and I literally couldn't get up and go use the bathroom anymore.

Yes.

Yes. So I called you and was like, I don't know what else to do. This Gerson thing seems to be helping people. I can't do it. I can't afford to implement it. And you were like, okay, let's do it. And you went that day, you started getting reverse osmosis water for me. You start— went and bought veggies. We're, you know, trying to piece together this last ditch effort. What would you guys have done differently in the sense of like watching me go downhill? And Aaron, you too. What can we convey to our listeners as far as those flags, those big red flags? Because I feel like we missed some of them because we didn't have a diagnosis, because nobody around us really knew what Lyme was. So what would you tell other parents who are trying to help their adult kids?

Well, the, the most frustrating thing was you were really sick for years and we didn't know what it was, and it was a mental game for us. What's wrong with Sarah? She's normally a vivacious, Type A personality person, energetic, and, you know, after the one accident you went downhill. We attributed it to the accident. We attributed it to the second accident. And even at year 6 or 7 there, when you were thinking of going to Gershon— yeah, I don't remember what the cost was, but I knew I was probably going to be involved. And I'm like, but we don't have a diagnosis, we don't know what it is. And you were thinking about going to Mayo— yeah, in Florida. And my biggest frustration was, we'll do whatever we can do and whatever we have to do, but not having the diagnosis was the big thing. We were just shooting at darts. We didn't even have a target.

Yeah, and we didn't. And I think that is the mind-boggling aspect of Lyme, is that many people don't have a diagnosis. I mean, how many people do we know even in our little city of Rio Rancho who have tested multiple times? It's pretty much the only thing left that they haven't been tested for, and yet You have to have somebody who knows what they're doing and you have to get lucky and have a doctor who listens and— So what were you guys thinking? One of the things Aaron and I were discussing last week was, as I was saying, I needed more help in making decisions. I needed more help in, you know, because I was saying this isn't working. This isn't working. Nobody's getting their needs met. And I remember feeling like at least a year before you started basically coming over every day. You had been coming over several times a week, and I remember just thinking, it's not enough. But I didn't know what to do. What do you do?

And even as a parent, you know, when your kids grow up, you're kind of expecting them just to take care of themselves and take care of their children. But there was this dilemma of deteriorating health. And I think even as hindsight, I feel like as a parent, it's better if you go with who that person was. Because, you know, you, Sarah, you know, you were athletic, you were go, go, go, and you wanted to keep going like that even with your family and your kids, but you just weren't able to. So I feel like for me, I just assumed with my own background that people that are sick eventually get better.

Right.

And with my chiropractic parents, you know, we basically weren't sick. So it was, it was hard for me to even adjust to you not getting better. But in that process, I feel like I should have listened more to the things that you were saying. You would have a good day and I would assume she's getting better. You're getting better. You would have a couple good days, I would do it again. It's like, okay, maybe we've turned that corner instead of really listening to what you were saying and being more aware of watching what was happening as your health was, you know, just more and more, you know, deteriorating as the weeks and months and years went by.

And that's what Aaron said last week. He said you were always so capable. When I was saying, hey, why didn't you step in and take over when it was evident to me that everything was falling apart around us. To me, it was evident that I wasn't capable. And he just said, you've always been capable. And it occurred to— I'm like, oh yeah, because I'm the only one who felt— I'm the only one who felt the pain. I was the one who was living with the internal chaos way before it became external. But I think you bring up a really good point of looking— I think loss of vitality is such a huge thing.

I don't know, Sarah, what we can tell parents who may have a Lyme child or adult child, because it was super frustrating. We're used to no matter what the diagnosis is, everybody generally gets better. Of course. You know, cancer, even some severe things, there's usually a plan, a process, a surgery, and a pill, a recovery period, and you get better. And you never got better. And that was so But I don't know, unless you're aware of Lyme and its insidious nature and debilitating nature of it, the only thing I can say is if you have a child or an adult child with all these multiple symptoms and they're not getting better and they're not getting diagnosed and the doctors don't know what to do, test for Lyme. That's what I would say because we were flying blind. I kept expecting, you know, you'd come to church one out of four Sundays, and I said, "Oh, she's getting better," just like mom would. "Oh, she's getting better," and then you would never get better. And we had never experienced that anywhere with anyone, right? So we had no reference, no— you know, and it would, you know, I think we feel a certain degree of bad about it because we wondered what's going on with her, and it's just so different. But we had no basis, and we had no default position to lean on. That's what was so frustrating. So I don't know what to tell a parent except if you have a chronically ill person and they're not getting diagnosed, at a minimum, check for Lyme.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. It's the longevity. And we say that it's unfathomable, mind-boggling, the longevity. And I remember thinking that. I don't know anyone who doesn't get better. Like, what in the world is going on? And, you know, I really feel like I'm a little bit ahead of this curve or this wave that's coming because we're getting more and more calls every week. More and more people even within our church are getting diagnosed. And a lot of that has come from those of us who have it saying, hey, you know what? You should, you should definitely get tested for that or, or figure it out.

One of the reasons we did Lyme Voice is so other people that come alongside us or come along and hear the episodes they can share it with family members. So I guess my question to you guys would be, is there something we, that we as the sick people could have said to get your attention quicker? For Lyme patients to communicate to those around them that they're really sick and they're in need, and that, that message is not getting received a lot of times. A lot of people, a lot of parents are not hearing their parents, just kind of like what happened with us.

Well, in between spouses too.

Yes, good point. In between spouses. So in hindsight, what are some of the things we could have done or could have said?

Well, for instance, one of the things I've thought is I remember you saying, "Annie Mae, you were so good, Mom, at coming over and just sweeping and moving the laundry ahead and doing the dishes." And I remember thinking, "Oh, thank God." And you were saying, "I just don't want to step on anyone." I don't want to overstep my boundaries, which never occurred to me. We were desperately thankful for any and all help, but that's—

But it's hard, Sarah, because you don't know. I mean, Aaron, I heard you on a podcast say that even you, what's wrong with my wife? Where's my wife? Because you had no clue except that she was hurting and incapacitated, which was weird and frustrating because it was so not her, but she's been going to doctors, taking medications, no diagnosis. And so parents from a distance, it's even worse because that thing, that cycle of, oh, she feels better today, she tried something. You tried a new diet, gluten-free or whatever, right? You try it, you feel good for 3 days. How many times did we go through that cycle? And it didn't do any good. And we're like, so I To me, I can't think of like one thing without the diagnosis, without some— obviously we're supportive. Trish was, you know, helping out with the kids and the house and the whole nine yards, but the diagnosis was critical.

Yeah, because without a diagnosis you can't apply for disability, you can't get therapies covered through your insurance, you can't get a home health nurse. 'Cause I remember doing that, you know, when you started coming over every day and helping me juice and do the enemas, I was viciously, aggressively trying to get a home healthcare nurse and it didn't happen.

Well, you know, one of the things that I think of is it's more of the intuitive thing again, is be willing to listen to what's, and watch what's going on. Because there was a point where you were on so many medications that I just felt like you weren't really capable of even walking, and you definitely weren't sleeping, and you really shouldn't have been driving.

Oh no, I know.

And you know, when that's a reality, it makes me think I should have been a little bit quicker on the uptake to even say, okay, I'm feeling like you are way drugged, you have way too much stuff in your system, and you're taking a lot of different stuff, and who knows how that stuff interacts. I know pharmacists are a little bit on top of it, but they're not in your home and they're not watching you. And so I feel like you have to be— go with a little bit of the intuitive to where you're— if something crosses your mind, you probably need to visit about it and be able to communicate it. Not all families can do that though, just like not all families are going to just let their mother-in-law come in and run the show, you know, which, you know, these two have been so gracious, with the help because they needed it. But not everybody's like that. They may not like the way you do something, or they may not want you correcting their kids or whatever. But that intuitive side of things is really, I think, critical. And I feel like I should have been a little bit better, a little bit quicker on it. And I know part of it is my background because with two chiropractic parents, it was really kind of a— it was bad on their reputation if you were sick. And so, and I kid you not, they didn't like you getting bad health grades. They didn't like you being home from school because it made them look bad, you know, like chiropractic was not fixing everything. So I feel like for me to be around somebody who's chronically ill and never getting over it, I was just thinking like, this is just weird. It's unusual for my background on top of you know, the not getting better, but just, well, the dependency on drugs. The dependency on drugs, that was part of it too, which was my concern for you because I just— we never took anything for hardly anything. So knowing now that, you know, you were, you know, having an array of drugs that you were taking every day, interacting and mixing with it and stuff, The other thing too is a lot of these things from fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, they didn't even exist, you know, even 15 years ago. I have a brother who's also a chiropractor and he said that is really now the diagnosis that everybody gets if they kind of don't really know what's wrong with you. Chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel, that's another one, you know, to where it's just like your system just isn't working right. Yeah, and so—

well, and that's it. That's exactly it, Mom, is nobody was telling us. Nobody was, you know, helping us along or saying, hey, you know, the fact that you can't stand, that's actually a big deal. You know, not one of my doctors ever gave me any indication of having any clue what was going on. But it took me years down the road getting to this point where I'm like, hey, I feel like I'm dying and nobody's paying attention. And they're like, We don't know how to help you. But those are questions that now I tell people to ask right away. If you can't help me, who can? And I think that that's part of the fighting is a mindset, is I had felt like I had been saying in 2012 and 2013 and into 2011, I feel like I started saying, I feel like I could die, or I feel like I am dying. And him and I have talked about this extensively, I don't know how many other ways I could have said it. And we've talked about this, but then when there's no answers and solutions, then you keep moving forward.

Yeah, it's weird because you were going to some doctors.

Oh yeah.

And so for your average layman, you're going to the doctors, they're not giving you a diagnosis, We certainly don't have expertise to— we just know, we see the impact. You can't walk, you can't drive, you can't take your house, your kids. So we just see all that, but we're not professionals. So, you know, Mom might be right on the intuitive side of it. I don't think I was intuitive. I was like, what's it going to cost and what's the diagnosis? And we'd never had one until you know, till you figured it out online, I think, and then that changed the game. Then we could be all in. We knew what we were fighting. We knew it was gonna cost a lot of money, and here we go. We're all gonna chip in. We're all gonna— the whole family's gonna participate in getting you healthy. But without the diagnosis, we were just swimming in the sea.

Yeah, and I think that brings up another point, is, and really what I was focusing on this summer is So many of us go into these appointments and what we're receiving is treatment, which is typically 98% medication, regulating your medications with, for whatever symptom you're dealing with that's the most aggressive at the moment. And what we want though is health and healing. And, and I, it took me a long time to understand that I was receiving treatment, but what I needed and wanted was healing. And that honestly no doctor in the world can hand you health and healing in a 15-minute visit. I think another thing that I've kind of wrapped my mind around is something that confused me with supplements and homeopathy was I was thinking, okay, I'm on all this pain medicine to stop the pain. It's designed to stop pain. If something that is specifically designed to target pain is not helping then how on earth is a vitamin or a homeopathic gonna help? And we did, we have this chiropractic background, there's a ton of great stuff that comes through chiropractor and nutrition, but within that realm, there was just a disconnect for me, and I was so tired of pouring money into another supplement that I feel like I really, for a couple years, didn't do much because it seemed futile.

The diagnosis is everything. I mean, I think we got there by God's grace because we didn't know what to do. I think you figured it out yourself in a way, self-diagnosed almost. But that was everything because otherwise we were lost.

Yeah, yeah.

And now going back to what you said about how much clearer could I have been by saying, "I think I'm going to die." You could not have been any clearer. And that was probably a wake-up call in a deeper level than the other stuff had been, even with some of the intuitive stuff. Because I think once you said that, you know, and you said, "Hey, I'm going to come over because I really think I could die," it was almost like a a shake-up in a way that I'm like, well, that happens to other people, you know. Young people can't die, you know. My kids aren't gonna die. And so as we visited about that, it sobered me greatly. It was probably the best thing that you could have said. And, you know, we needed to pay a closer attention to that as it was coming out of your mouth because there was no more waiting. There had to be something, the next thing needed to basically have you turn that corner and start getting better because there was nothing left.

Right, there were no more corners, there was no more time.

Yeah.

Yeah. I remember calling your siblings and telling them when we got to this place of extreme desperation, you're just totally disabled, incapacitated, and I called him and said, "I don't think your sister's— she's not going to live. She's not going to make it. She's—" You almost drowned in the bathtub, couldn't walk, couldn't drive, couldn't go to church, couldn't do anything, couldn't take care of your kids, couldn't clean, couldn't cook, totally incapacitated, and it looked like you were on the path to dying. And so it got all very serious then, but again, we needed the diagnosis to at least know what we were dealing with.

Yeah, and that brings up a really good point because we did— when, you know, I had enough knowledge from what I had read to kind of implement Gerson under the chronic fatigue diagnosis. But one of the things that was so weird to me in reading this— so the Gerson therapy has a clinic and you can go out there, but if you have a diagnosis of chronic fatigue You have to be on the protocol of 6 daily juices and 3 coffee enemas a day. I think it was 4 to 6 weeks you need to be on it because it took people so long to recover. And I'm reading this material and I'm like, why is it taking people with chronic fatigue longer to recover than their cancer patients? And really it's just that Lyme is a totally different ballgame and there is this longevity to it. And we're on the cusp of people even understanding and testing for it.

So—

And there was a panic at that point too because if you were diagnosed with chronic fatigue and Gerson said you had to be on their protocol for 4 to 6 weeks, we thought, we don't have 4 to 6 weeks. Yeah. We didn't have that much time. It didn't look like we even had the option to wait. Yeah.

Yeah, and it's funny, you know, because as we've talked through this stuff, there's so many times where I'm like, I wish I would have, you know, I didn't know. I wish I would have said, hey, let's start this sooner. Because even Gerson, I remember thinking 2 years before I started it that I wanted to do it, but I didn't want to throw more resources away because at this point nothing had worked. And I feel like one of the benefits of Lyme Voice will be people understanding that it is— you have to have a lot of tools. It's not enough just to juice. It's not enough just to have a good doctor. You have to be able to afford supplements. You have to be able to do all these other aspects and then not let your house fall apart in the process.

And actually, I think the documentaries that I just happened to be watching as I sewed were very helpful because they were health-centered. And when I first watched the Gerson, you know, I just thought, okay, this pile of drugs is not doing the job. Okay, so, okay, note to self, pile of drugs is not doing the job. Why not try something natural? Why not go by this documentary when they're saying that it's what you put into your body that heals those cells and gives your body a chance to fight? Yeah. So that was what was appealing about Gerson. It was different, it was weird, it was, you know, these things, but all the medications and the time and the money that had gotten you to this point wasn't working. You were dying anyway. So in some ways, what did we have to lose? Right.

I know. Yeah. And I remember thinking that too, but you guys did a really good job of stepping in and saying, okay, whatever you think. 'Cause I remember we did not have the money to implement stuff at that point. And you were like, okay, let's do it. So I think one of the— obviously you guys have just been a treasure to us and we would not be standing or have a roof over our head. So you guys were really supportive and I believe some of that comes even from Kevin's story. I feel like I have a brother who passed away at 14 and he had meningitis and severe brain damage his whole life. From a year and a half old. And one of the most touching things, and I've been wanting to tell you this story on air, is— so currently Aaron and I are renting the house we grew up in because we needed a one-story house, and this— their tenants had just moved out, so we moved in. It was very good timing. And so now being in this house that we grew up in, every once in a while I have like these flashbacks from, you know, I'm on the other side of the door, I'm the one saying, hey, clean your room. But So I remember one time standing— and Kevin was very difficult mentally. He was, you know, a few months old, but he had the body of a regular kid, and he was loud and obnoxious. And I remember standing in the bathroom, and I was bugged at him for doing something and kind of like being snotty. And you were like, hey, you know what, I know he's frustrating, but you can't talk to him like that. And It was interesting because I remember as I was going downhill, because I had a couple days where I'm like not coherent, didn't really understand the time frame, I remember thinking like, I know my mom will take care of me. Because Kevin was totally gone by the time you were saying that, and yet I knew even if I was unconscious or passed away, you guys would take care of Aaron and the kids because I'd seen you do it so selflessly. And I never wanted that to come, come to pass, but I think you guys did a really good job of just persevering and doing the next right one thing, whatever that may be.

And just, okay, let's try the next seizure medication, let's You know, but I think that your mom and I come from the Midwest stock of tremendous hard work. Do whatever you have to do to make it happen, provide for your family, take care of, you know, whatever cards God has dealt you. And Kevin certainly was a 12-year journey of endurance and perseverance and and a pile of frustration and tears and all kinds of things. So it did prepare us for that. But once we had the diagnosis, then it was like, "Oh, okay, now we're definitely all in." Money, time, taking care of kids. Your siblings came to the plate with you, and different ones of us went to the clinic with you and would spend a week or 2 weeks on that 8-week or 9-week journey there. And so it was just refreshing to have that diagnosis and then be able to direct our energies, whether it was time or money, but to just really get in there. And so, yeah, I think Kevin did prepare us, but I don't know, we're just of the style, you just do what you have to do and you do the next thing and, you know, you lay your life down and here we go.

Yeah, and that's victory though, because, you know, a lot of people don't have that. They don't have that. And yeah, a lot of people don't have an intact family or an intact marriage, and their battle is going to be a lot harder. Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it is why we say healing is a choice, because you guys chose for us to heal. You chose to help us heal. And sometimes we, you know, you sometimes you get sick and you can't heal yourself, but there is choices that you can do along the way. So just the attitude of, okay, we got to do what we got to do, here we go, let's do it. That is a choice. And I think even as a family, we've become closer because Sarah is the oldest of 6. And as a family, the Slicktees have come closer because of this. And it's interesting how those things, you know, it reminded me of the verse in the Bible that says what sin has come to destroy, God uses for good. And I think that is an exact true picture of what has happened with our family and in Lyme. You know, it's a disease that's wanting to destroy and rip us apart, and it does for a lot of people. But if you can weather it and stay, do what you gotta need, what you gotta do every day, wake up with that same mindset, that is when you can get the choice of healing and the benefits of choice of healing.

Mm-hmm, I agree.

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Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not a quick process, and you know, as a parent, you know, you just, you do want to take care of your kids, but you do want to see them come to the other side of that too, you know, to be able to do the fighting and, you know, to do the healing and just move on in life. So I mean, I feel like you guys have now got a lot of puzzle pieces put together, right, to where, and And it's very helpful because now you've got kids that are sick with Lyme too. And it's passed on that way. And people don't realize that, you know, to where that's why whole families are sick. And, you know, you're, in a sense, your health education is going to be helpful because they're not going to get as bad as you did. Because you know some answers and some keys and, you know, some things that can heal them. And to me, that's good. That's a benefit, you know, to where You're— not only are we wanting to be caregivers of you, but now you are wanting to care give to others because you don't want them to suffer. You don't want them to be without that diagnosis, and you don't want them to feel like they're alone and have the anxiety of all that goes into just trying to get better.

Yeah, I know it's a big thing. I think one thing that you guys did so well is you just kept showing up. Because honestly, those are the people that we have relationships with, is the people who came to us. Because I was in no condition for so many years. I would perk up every once in a while and send out emails or try to hook up and do coffee. I mean, but that was years ago. And then, like you said, the cyclical of, oh, she's doing okay, and now not so good. And I remember thinking, okay, you know, I had a bad month, or I had a bad quarter, quarter, and then it was like, okay, it's been 2 years and I am not getting those recovery moments anymore.

But it wasn't even that you just showed up. You guys showed up with the intent of helping us, and I think that's an, that's an important part because a lot of families don't realize that. I think a lot of, a lot of people go to someone and expect things of them. I mean, that happens in some of our relationships where we'd have people come over and they want to sit and talk for a while and, you know, we're like—

like normal people. Like normal people. They want to be normal.

Which is totally fine. We're just not normal anymore, right? We're— we are what we are.

Yeah, I have a chair in my kitchen.

Yeah, a lounge chair. Yeah. Yeah. And Emily and Phillip, who we've interviewed, they moved a bed out. We're not normal people, and so I think it's important for those who are listening who don't have Lyme is to understand that you might have to put yourself into their position. And I think you guys always did that very well, even with the interacting. And Grandma, we needed you to come in and take control of the chaos that was happening. And man, I wish we would have taken some of the pictures of when you would show up. There's half-naked people running around. Milk is dripping off the top of the fridge, down onto the counter, flowing down the counter into the sink, dripping. We should have taken some pictures, huh? That was craziness.

Yeah, it was chaotic. You know, it's— what do we attribute it to? It's our background and it's our spiritual values that came to the plate to just meet the need. It's our family. You have to do what you have to do. And I guess I would just encourage parents with kids, I mean, we obviously let you and want all our adult children to be independent, but you just couldn't be. It was an impossibility and we recognize it. And fortunately, your mother has the gift of cleaning and the gift of service and coming alongside. Really, she has those gifts and you needed her X amount of hours a week, like 10, 20 hours a week or whatever it was. And so the confluence of things there was great for you, because I know a lot of families, maybe adult children, their parents don't live here, they don't realize the severity of it, and so the couple is alone, and that'd be a terrible spot to be in because it's so debilitating. So, you know, just by God's grace and so forth, I think your mother came to the plate in a really huge way. And made a really big difference. Oh, huge.

Well, and even, I mean, I laugh about it now, but you would go, I mean, I couldn't shop. I hadn't shopped for clothing in years and it didn't matter, we were out of money anyways, but you would go try on clothes because we're approximately the same size and bring them home to me. Those are the only clothes I had because really I couldn't, occasionally I would run and go grab a pair of shorts or something, but I really couldn't. I couldn't try stuff on and shop. It was too hard. So I— yeah, and you kept all the kids in clothes and lots of stuff.

And I think what's important too is each one of us has our own specialty, I mean, and our own strengths. So, you know, a phone call to encourage somebody— I know Jill, one of your dear friends Jill, would always call you. She never would come over and clean up. True, that's just not Jill. But she'd call and you guys would have these amazing Conversations, you'd be so excited. Jill encouraged me this way, that way. And I think the same can be done. Even if you're not a parent that can come alongside and clean the entire house like Grandma Trish can. I mean, you can do it in a matter of minutes too. It's amazing. It's a gift. Yes. So, it doesn't matter what your skill is or what your gift is. If you're using it for those, it's going to be received well. Adam and Heather, when they lived in Maryland, they sent us a pizza one night. That was awesome. It came at the perfect time. We had a Domino's pizza delivered and we needed that meal that night. So, if you're listening and you want to help and yeah, you can't be a grammatrist, don't feel bad. You can do other things. Think, be creative. You know, think of other ways you can help. Maybe it's encouraging thought. Maybe it's buying that book for them. Maybe it's buying the clothes for them. Yeah.

Yeah, there is. And honestly, there was so many days where I literally would just prayed that somebody would stop by or send a text message or— because I needed it. Like, I just was so isolated. And even Jenny and Steph, my sisters, they're really good. You know, they'd shoot me texts, or Jenny's really good at sending letters that say, "You rock," or— which I didn't, but I liked getting the letters anyway.

Jenny is your sister. Yeah, the young— the closest in age, right? She's next to you. Yeah. Okay.

So yeah, there is a lot of healing steps, and I think again you have to be aware of the longevity of things. And I— a lot of people end up coming to this place where you have to make very hard decisions. For us, you know, I felt like we had made a lot of those hard decisions, like putting our kids in public school, and, you know, I felt like we kept lowering our standards. We weren't. We were trying to survive, but that's how it feels internally. And I remember talking with him and saying, this is not working. Like, I can't even go in and say goodnight to the babies. I can't get them dressed. I can't do anything. And I felt like I— what I wanted him to do is go tell family or whatever and really rally the troops and say, okay, this isn't working. Because honestly, I I felt like they needed to leave. I did not, especially as I was having seizures, I'm like, this is not a good environment for them to be in. They've, you know, they've been dealing with neglect at this point, not willful neglect, but having to be self-sufficient and doing meals and stuff. And I just didn't want that to continue. But that, those are all really hard choices that kind of unfold in different ways depending on what you what resources you have.

And if I can turn gears a little bit, Sarah, one of the things that maybe could help some of the Lyme patients out there is that you were a fighter. And so in your spirit, even though I know you came close to giving up and you had some personal talks with God about things, but in a sense you didn't give up and you've been a fighter really all the way through it even though you're debilitated. But once we got the treatment, because even when we were getting treatment, I mean, some of the patients were doing the same treatments you were, and then in breaks they'd go outside and smoke, right? And I'm like, you know, you're paying a ton of tens of thousands of dollars for treatment, and then you go outside in between, you know, IVs and smoke, you know, it's just like— but they just weren't of the same spirit. And so one of the, you know, I just see that you're a fighter, and so that Type A gregarious personality came out, and you needed the support of your husband and the team and the family and some church friends. You needed all that, but then also you were fighting. Yeah. And you have been to this day. I'm doing all the protocols, you know, it just like makes me tired thinking about all you have to do every day. And so anyway, that's a big part of the whole healing process, I think. Fight. You're a fighter, and you've been fighting. Once you got well enough, then your fighting really kicked in so where you could do all your protocols and supplements and all that you do. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's true. And that's a hard thing because I remember, honestly, 2013, remember, because I had a herniated disc and I had been in bed for like 4 or 5 months, I couldn't use my left arm. And I told the surgeon, I said, whatever is going on, like this herniated disc, which is excruciating. I'm like, this is nothing compared to what I'm dealing with. Like, I don't know what's going on, but this is— there's something horribly wrong. And I remember just thinking like, I don't know what else to do. But, and it is true, like whatever gifts you do have do come to play. Because I mean, I had been saying, I really feel like I'm dying, I really feel like I'm dying. And then really, I feel like I kind of gave over my power to him in a sense of saying, I've fought everything I know to do, I've done everything I know to do, I need outside help to get to that next level. And my friend Heather Getty, I remember her calling and just saying, what is going on? Because my kids are asking me if you're gonna die, and I can't tell them you're not. Like, we've got to get to the next level. And I remember telling Aaron in tears, I'm like, I know that, but I don't know what else to do. But that conversation— and there were others, there were other critical conversations— but just her saying that, and I'm like, yeah, I feel like I've told Aaron that and I need him to help me, but he didn't know how to help me either. But it triggered enough to where I Okay, who's the next doctor I can go see? Who's the next specialist? And then you move forward.

So now as we move into the live section, we have a new life. We have a life with Lyme life. What are some of the things that we're doing now that you're seeing success as a family from the outside perspective? Because you saw us living with Lyme and what a disaster that's been. Now we have a new picture, a new life in a sense of how we're functioning with this disease. What are some things that you guys see from an outside perspective that we are succeeding at as a Lyme family? And/or failing.

I mean, there's lots of stuff we're trying to improve on. Sure.

I like when I don't fail. Stories about how I don't fail better. So if we want to go with that, that's the first vote. On my part.

Well, it's still, you know, we're 2 years past your treatment, almost right to the month. You came home in September of 2 years ago. Yeah. So we're 2 years past. It's, it saved your life, but it's been a long journey of 2 years. Mom is still helping, right? You know, it's decreased, but, you know, we're still mindful of of, you know, you have more capacity for some more, a few more events or tasks, and even LimeVoice, and that's all exciting to us for you. But it's, you know, my thought to the audience is it looks like it's a long journey. And you're, to me, you're still only in the 60% range. I mean, you know, you have a lot of good days now, but if you do an evening event and an event the next day, you might start twitching and having problems on the third day and have to sleep on the fourth day all day. And so there's still serious health issues, financial issues you guys face and we face with you. And so it's not like, oh, it's kind of over and cool. And, you know, it's not at all. You're not normal. We're not normal with you. You're still really only at 60% or something like that. So I just want to share that. I think you're doing great. You're fighting, you're trying to make money through your Lime Voice and helping people through it, monetizing your passion and all that, which from our perspective is fantastic. But it's just a flat, long journey and nothing quick and easy about it.

Yeah, I feel like even one of the things that I see moving forward is even just how we used to do, like, we used to go skiing as a family and do a lot more.

Now we go to Lyme treatments.

And yeah, now we host support groups and it, yeah, it's very different. Yeah, it is. I feel like for our extended family it's changed a lot because we, and I mean, you guys still all play ping pong and you all do your thing, but I sit. —And we used to do a lot more physically.

Yeah, and there's, you know, and there's still your capacity for your housecleaning, or, you know, you just have a limited capacity. So Mom is still helping, and not as vital as she was, but still helping, and enjoys doing it. I think the babies get under her skin once in a while, but there's a reason the Bible The Bible says it's good to bear the yoke in your youth, you know, and sometimes kids are the yoke. And so, but anyway, you know, we're in it for the long haul and whatever it takes, that's what it takes, and here we go. But it's altered our life for sure. Yeah.

And it's altered yours, obviously. As you guys regain more strength and ability to cope and deal with not only financially, you know, you are able to help your other kids that have Lyme now. And with you guys feeling better, you, you know, in particular being home with the kids, as you improve, everything improves. I know. I just feel like you just see things getting better to where the kids don't have to fix their own meals because mom is there to do it. Mom's there to shop. Dad's there to be the disciplinarian a little bit more in the evenings. You have a little bit more of a family life because you didn't before. It was, I need to go to bed and Erin, they're yours because I can't function past 5 o'clock. And so I feel like I've seen that just improve. Improve as you guys are on top of it more, just health-wise, and have more stamina. You can just deal with everyday life things with a family, right? And, you know, to me, a family just runs a little bit better when it's got, um, number one, a mom that's able to do it. But the other thing is just, is just having the ability to be consistent with whatever bedtime, mealtime, you know, some of that stuff just makes a family run better. And you guys have just functioned in, I'm gonna get by today, I'm gonna get through today, and I don't see that as much anymore. You guys are, in a sense, getting your family back and getting your ability to run the ship, I guess, you know, which is really exciting to see. That's a good side, you know, to just regaining that control of making decisions for your family instead of just kind of being, you know, thrown around by the waves of illness. Really, it's— you guys are back on track much more than 2 years ago.

Oh yeah, so yeah, it is, it's hard. I'm continually amazed at how much normalcy is having to fall back into place in order to just do something simple like have dinner 5 nights a week and be able to sit there and clean up afterwards. And, you know, that means you have to be able to go to the store. It means you have to have all these other dumb— all these other pieces in place for things that I would never would have thought were that monumental, like having dinner every night, have become monumental.

Yeah. And I think for other people even looking in, I think even for me, you know, your strength is limited and you have a certain amount of time every day that has to go into taking care of yourself so that you can continue to get better. And for me, sometimes I think, well, you know, put that energy that you're going to yoga, do that towards your laundry or do that towards your dishes. You know, "What are you doing going to yoga?" when the yoga is part of the protocol. And when it's limited, you have to put that in order. I mean, even for the guy on the outside looking in, you know, which they shouldn't be critical or judge anyway because you're the one that's having to live it. But, you know, just to be understanding to where it's like, "Okay, really, this is how long an enema takes. This is how long a class takes to go to yoga." to be able to get your cells and your body and your stretching, and so that you're not, you know, locked back into the pain and you're not locked into the twitching and sleepless nights. You know, I mean, the exercise is very much a part of it, you know, and the ability to go ahead and, you know, put all that money into the nutritional side of things, the vitamins and stuff, and stay on top of that. I mean, there's just a certain amount of energy that just takes to just do that stuff, right? And, and it really is not that big of a deal if the dishes don't get done, right, that day. So just understanding, you know, what it takes to keep the protocol going, to keep healthy.

Yeah, and you guys did a great job of that. As we come up with the next latest greatest thing, you know, as we got a new diagnosis and, oh well, if we try this next thing, you guys were always really good at supporting us throughout the whole thing. Okay, yeah, go do it, do it, you know, what's the— how can we help? Do we— can we buy you something to help you help that process? And I think that if I could impart any parents who are listening, if you take that attitude with your kid, you're gonna demonstrate so much more than just help. You're gonna demonstrate peace and love and grace to them, and that alone will definitely heal. That alone is gonna heal all those arguments you've had up until this point. And I think that has been an awesome thing that you guys have both demonstrated well with us.

Well, you had said earlier, Sarah, that, you know, you knew we'd take care of you partly because you saw us take care of Kevin. But, you know, I've told the other siblings that, you know, we really would, even if one of our— not only our siblings, but their spouses— if they came down with debilitating illness or accident, you know, we'd take our son-in-laws in or whatever and care for them and take care of them because we should, and it's the right thing to do. But I think that's a neat, you know, this kind of brought out, I think the family knows that that's the standard. If mom and I are capable either physically or financially, we're all in with our kids, you know, and that's just, that should be, that's the honorable thing to do. And, but I think it creates a a neat family atmosphere, security, that, you know, when push comes to shove and in the clutch, you know, we'll come through for each other. And I know that your siblings would too. Yeah, I suspect, you know, if other things happen in our family, people would change careers and sell houses and do whatever we got to do to, you know, make it happen. And I just think that's, that's cool. It is.

Yeah, I know not everybody has that. And I remember I knew if I had passed away, Steph and Jen would move back. I knew they would because they would take over some of those parenting responsibilities, you know, maybe not day to day, but I knew that they would prioritize our kids. And it— one of the things you said to me was, as you know, we were trying to figure all this stuff out and how do we afford this? And you said, Sarah, all that we have is yours. And you meant it and I knew you meant it, but even in hearing it, I think it's good because when you are sick, you really just feel like a failure. Mm-hmm. You know, you're spending all this time and effort into not getting better and it sucks. I mean, logically, rationally, I could tell myself I knew I was fighting. To this day, I'm still doing everything I know to do, but you don't see a lot of fruit or benefit. And so it's helpful to have someone say like, okay, like, we believe you, you know, we get how serious this is. Because really, and people tell me on a regular basis, you just look like you're fine. You seem to be competent. You're, you know, you guys are doing this and that. You have a book coming out. There's all these things, and there are all those things. Things, but it's on this very precarious balancing act, and even for me, I would not be pushing myself as hard as I am, even in getting these other branches of Vigor4Life, our company, off and running. We have different products. My push is because I have kids now. I would love to sit back and watch Netflix for a couple hours here and there and just be sick, and I don't, I don't feel like I have that luxury as a parent. I know, I know what my kids are up against, and I'm not gonna let them suffer in the way that I have. Therefore, you publish. Therefore, you push. And you're right, I, I really don't see people getting better who aren't really fighting. And I know I say that over over and over again, but it's just, it's so true.

Thank you so much for being with us today, Mom and Dad. One thing before we go, I wanted to give you guys a teaser of a future episode. We're gonna have to sit Don in front of the microphone and talk about a financial education program that he has put together. I feel like he did create it for Sarah and I because as we were going through all these health issues, our finances were just getting obliterated. It was just getting— I mean, it was getting destroyed. Don's help with this program was huge for Sarah and I, and I'm really excited for you guys to hear more about that. We'll do that in an upcoming episode, but keep your ears open because the information that Don has assembled literally changed Sarah and I's financial life.

Yeah, and I think it's empowering even to— in in regards to making those hard choices, like realizing, okay, we may not be able to earn money the way we used to, we may not be able to leave town, you know, and so therefore within these limitations, how can we use our creativity and what we do have to earn more passive income, right?

And Lime Voice would not be in existence if it wasn't for that class, right? Because we started looking at what I consider you're turning your poop into fertilizer. And what can we do with our poop, our pile of poop? Well, we can make it into this, and Lime Voice was born. So I want you guys to hear that, hear this upcoming episode, because I think it could do the same for you. We all are handed a big pile of manure, and it's whether we want to use it as an annoyance or fertilizer. And I think G5T and Don's program I think Don's program will be perfect for that. That'd be great, Aaron.

I mean, of course I'd love to do it, and I could go on for hours about that topic because it's my heart and soul at this stage in my life. And I know your guys' life, you know, you're some of my star students, and I've got quite a few now who it's changing their lives. And I feel like people don't really have hope financially. They don't have options, and they don't see opportunities. Whether— not even sick people, not even Lyme patients, regular people don't have hope, don't see options, and don't see financial opportunities on the horizon. And so my course, I think, does that, did it for you guys, and I'm super proud of you, you know, with the podcasting, all that you're doing with your companies is exciting, and it does stem from that. I mean, I share the information that changed my life, and so that's what I really— I didn't I didn't make it up myself, but I just assimilate it, highlight it, and bring it with some faith and energy. And it's changed your guys' financial life and future, and I think it'll help others too.

So, I look forward to that. Yeah. And even it's already made an impact on other families we know that are trying to live within the confines of how do we provide for everyone's medical needs when you cannot leave or you cannot go to work every day. You know, one of the things from the class is just instead of saying, okay, we can't afford it, saying, how can we afford it? Yeah, and that was huge. We've already seen that trickle through to other families who are really in desperate need of treatment and supplements, and to see that ripple effect for other people has been really neat, and I think it's just the beginning. Let's do it.

Hi folks, I wanted to tell you about Audible. Sarah and I love Audible. We use it to listen to all the books. I'm an auditory learner, so I love to just listen. I get distracted too easily when I'm just sitting there reading. There's too much going on in my life anyway, what with the podcast and full-time work and all the other things that life throws at you. Basically, the only time you have is in your commute. So all these books that Sarah has been telling me, you got to read this book, I just do it on my commute, and I can do it while I do my chores. If you want to get this offer, all you got to do is go to lionvoice.com, look for the button on the right-hand side, it'll say get your free Audible download. Once you sign up through Audible, you will get your first month free, your first download free, and after that you get billed monthly. And, and you know, there's a lot of times where I'm counting down the on the days. You know, money's a little too tight, I can't spend another $20 on a book, but at the end of every month you get one free credit and you can use it for whatever book you want. So, hope you guys enjoy Audible as much as Sarah and I did. Thanks for helping support LionVoice.

Disease is contrary to life, therefore wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters. Keep it up. We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Okay, Lincoln?

Okay.

The medical information on LymeVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay? Okay. LymeVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln? Got it.

From the creators of Lime Voice and Disappearing from Society comes a brilliantly simple idea, but this time It comes as a book. Imagine a world in which birds can talk like people. You'll get a bird's-eye view of life with Lyme disease as one bird family must unite to overcome the obstacles of life with Lyme disease. Guaranteed to make you laugh and cry. Written in a way that helps you articulate the loss stresses you are experiencing as a household while simultaneously empowering you to keep fighting. Little Bite, Big Trouble is available today at amazon.com.