027 Medical Cannabis And Lyme Disease Shelley M. White

From the creators of Lyme Voice and Disappearing from Society comes a brilliantly simple idea, but this time it comes as a book. Imagine a world in which birds can talk like people. You'll get a bird's-eye view of life with Lyme disease as one bird family must unite to overcome the obstacles of life with Lyme disease. Guaranteed to make you laugh and dry. Written in a way that helps you articulate the losses you are experiencing as a household while simultaneously empowering you to keep fighting. Little Bite, Big Trouble is available today at Amazon.com.

Well, and you know, those pills also, those have bad chemicals in them while cannabis has good chemicals. Cannabis also replaces what, like 10 of those pills with one herb? Right. Close to a sleeping pill, an antibacterial, antiviral, you know, an anti-pain medication and ADHD medication, and you know, the list goes on and on.

Congratulations, Lyme Fighter! Today you had the courage to open your eyes and face another day. Welcome to LymeVoice. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place. Each episode is designed to inspire, educate, and encourage you on your Lyme journey to wellness. Together we will fight. Together we will heal. Together we will live. Here are your hosts. Aaron and Sarah Sanchez.

Hi everyone, before we get started on this week's episode, this week's episode is about medical marijuana, so it may not be appropriate for kids. So you parents, please use your judgment on the rest of this content. Yeah, but we're really excited for this week's episode. Medical marijuana was one of those things that really helped Sarah really gave us a lot more options. It was one of the major tools in our tool belt that really helped us.

We're going to be talking with Shelley M. White. She wrote Cannabis for Lyme Disease and Related Conditions. It's really one of the first books I had read about cannabis and Lyme and just using that as a tool. I think one of the things I wanted you guys to just think about is I had always heard medical cannabis used for people with like a terminal illness. And because 15 years into my ordeal, I still didn't have a diagnosis beyond fibromyalgia or chronic pain, chronic fatigue. And so it would never was even on my radar as an option or as something that I could use. And so As you listen, just even be conscientious of people that you know who live with chronic pain and fatigue, because depending on their circles, there's a lot of people who just don't know about it, and/or there's a lot of misconceptions.

Well, one of the things I really liked about this book is if we could go back at the very beginning and have had this book, it would have helped a ton. So if you've ever been interested in it, or you're currently using medical cannabis to help yourself, please look into this because this book can really be a huge resource. I've read it and it's just— I wish I had it earlier. I'm so glad to have it. And this is also available through our website, and you can buy it right there on the show notes from this episode.

Another resource that I wanted you to know about is Morgan Spurlock, who did Super Size Me, I think is what it was called. He has a show called Inside Man, and it's on either Netflix or Hulu. I think it's on Netflix. Um, in one of the episodes he has, he goes into basically living life with someone in that industry, and cannabis is the first episode on it. And it's just really interesting. One of the things he said, and I watched this years ago, was that as he, he thought it was cannabis was just, or chronic pain was kind of just an excuse to use cannabis. And he said once he was in there that he was surprised at the number of disabled people. He was like, they're— this is really helping people who don't have a lot of options. And that was a surprise to him. So there are a lot of misconceptions, and that's just another resource that is available.

Yeah. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode. Here is Shelley. If you like what we're doing here at Lion Voice, one thing you can do to help us is simply by going to iTunes or Stitcher and leaving your review view. This really helps get the message of LionVoice out to others. Don't forget to go to our Facebook page, LionVoice, and while you're there, give us your like. Also, go to lionvoice.com and you can find all sorts of information and past episodes. Don't forget to share while you're there. Talk to you soon. Hi guys, I want to tell you about Audible. I love Audible. Sarah loves Audible. I know you guys are gonna love it as well. It has been such a huge resource for us. We have an offer at lionvoice.com where you can actually get your first month free. This is a great way to grab one of those books that you've been meaning to read and be able to do it on the go, in your commute, while you're doing your chores, or if you just don't have the strength to hold up the book that day. This is a great way to be able to utilize the information that is so vital for your health and recovery. Go to lionvoice.com, get your free audible download, and help support Lion Voice. Thank you guys so much, we really appreciate it. Welcome, Lion Voice listeners. Today we are so excited to have Shelley White on the line. And she's gonna talk to us about medical cannabis. Miss Shelley, are you ready to help us put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place?

Yes.

Alright.

Well, like I said earlier, she is the author of Cannabis for Lyme Disease and Related Conditions. Medical marijuana has been a huge help for a lot of those dealing with chronic issues and Lyme. One of the things that really attracted us to Shelley's message and her book is that she used it to not only deal with her symptoms but used it to help cure the Lyme disease itself. We understood, you know, from medical marijuana you could help with cancer-like symptoms and that kind of thing, but this is a, this is a new topic that we really are interested more about. So Shelley, before we get to the book itself, Can you give us a little update of where you are on your fight journey?

Right now, my Lyme disease and all of my co-infections are dormant.

Wow.

Which is— it's really great. I'm symptom-free given I'm not exposed to mold or chemicals. So, you know, I'm kind of confined to a bubble in many ways. But I was actually born that way. I was born with chemical sensitivities. It's genetic in my family. So I'd say I'm in a pretty good place.

Cool. And how long have you had Lyme?

I think— I suspect I've had it since I was 14. So that's about 11 years, but I did not become debilitated until the age of 21.

Shelley, we have truly talked about interviewing you for months and months because I think it's just such an important message for people to understand that there are options outside the box for them.

Right.

So tell us, you've been sick, you become debilitated at 21, and how long had you been undergoing treatment at that point, or were you?

I was not until I, you know, I moved to North Carolina from Texas. Within about the span of 2 weeks, I lost the ability to read, write, and walk, talk, and so on. Luckily, I watched Under Our Skin one day, and I went to see a doctor from that video, and I received conventional treatment for about a year. And after about a year, I just, you know, I felt I was destroying my body, but I was well enough to begin learning how to treat myself, and I began treating myself with Stephen Buhner's protocol.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, and about 6 to 8 months in, I had progressed significantly. But yeah, I felt like I had hit a roadblock in my healing. So, you know, I was like, I really, I still need something else. I'm missing something. So I decided to try cannabis. I had always hated smoking growing up, but someone had given me some for my seizures. Huh. And I thought, well, you know, I have nothing to lose, so I'm just going to smoke a lot tonight and see how I feel tomorrow. And I did. And the next morning I felt better than I had felt in years. And I realized that it was going to be a huge part of my healing process. And I eventually started using an infused coconut oil form. And I would do it every single night in pretty large doses. And then I would just take like a drop or so throughout the day when symptoms reappeared for symptom management. And within about a few months, I was feeling so great. I was driving again. I moved to a new state, got a great job, and you're like, I'm back, world, right? Right. And then I got a little too, you know, enthusiastic and moved into black mold, and I And so of course I tried that second time to just go at it hard with the Buener herbs and cannabis, and that just wasn't doing it. So I went to many different doctors and all said that my Lyme was still actually dormant and I had black mold issues. So for about a year and a half, I struggled really hard with mold issues, some genetic factors, metals, and in The Lyme eventually did come back out during that, and I just got that back under control this past summer.

And I— Wow.

Yeah, I'd moved to a cabin last spring where I got Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

Oh no.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. So I would say that my point here is the first time around, I didn't have so many complex issues. It really was a case more of just Lyme and co-infections, and I say just No, but it— so it was able to help and I was able to treat myself. The second time around, I was awoken to the fact that there's so many other issues that people deal with now too, like mold, right, issues, pyroluria, metals. I had an infection from a vaccine even in my brain, I found out, and I needed other intervention for that. So the second time around, I definitely think cannabis speeded up my healing process. It managed my symptoms. It made it to where I could get up and go to treatment, right? I, I did ozone mainly, and I did ozone the second time around.

Okay.

What I think finally really helped me with everything.

You know, it's interesting, um, I got an email from someone last week and they were asking about blood ozone therapy and if I thought it was beneficial, and I said, you know, I did it as part of my treatment at Invita. I did it daily for 2 months, but I was doing so many other things at the same time. I don't know exactly what did what.

You know, that's, that's kind of my thing too. It's hard for me to say. I went to Dr. Minkoff's clinic in LifeWorks.

Okay.

Florida. I mean, he's just, he's so phenomenal and intelligent. And I did blood ozone, the UVBI, and MAH, and I did Myers' cocktails, O2, glutathione, Plaquex, and silver. So there was a ton going on, and of course oil at night. But I did notice if I didn't take my oil, I would be trying to cancel treatment the next morning. You know, my boyfriend would be dragging me to it. If I took it, I'd be getting up and making breakfast for the both of us.

So that is so interesting because that's the same conversations Aaron and I have had, is I said for so many months, it helped me get up and swallow my pills. It helped me because I think the stereotype that I, I didn't have experience, prior experience with cannabis. I just thought it was like, oh, like a recreational or party drug. And so, but it's never, it's not ever been that for me. It's been what kind of bridges the gap between me getting out of bed and being able to do my protocol or not be or Yeah, get up and fold laundry or just do life. It has helped me do life on days that I didn't feel I could.

Lyme disease, an interesting component is it makes every movement seem so hard, and you can sit there and tell yourself, you know, move, take that drink of water, but for some reason your body just won't do it. And I really struggled with that, with being able just to, like you said, roll over and take my pills during the process. So if I took large amounts of oil at night, the next day was so much easier easier for me. And I say at night because I really wouldn't take any in the morning. So it's as if while I slept it was reducing my brain inflammation. Hmm. Oh, it helped me, you know, maintain a good status throughout the next day.

Interesting. Okay, but what brought you to this point where— I mean, I know you said you had a friend who had given it to you, but what brought you to that point of just saying I need something on such a different level. And did your doctors agree or was it just, hey, I'm doing this?

Yeah, I hadn't had a doctor actually in over a year. I was actually extremely suicidal by that point. I would be up at like 3:00 AM every night, you know, wanting to kill myself but saying, hey, this isn't me. These voices, you know, so it was just an inner war. And one night I just looked at the bag of cannabis and just, I mean, I was desperate, you know? I was like, I'll smoke my brains out because I don't have any more brains. I mean, that was literally, literally my train of thought. And I had recently seen a special, that Sanjay Gupta special on cannabis for seizures, and I had heard that it had, yeah, that it had over 700 healing components. So I thought, you know, although I do not know anyone who has done this, if it has over 700 healing components, you know, one of them must help me. So I just went at it.

That's awesome. Okay, do you mind sharing with us your recipe?

Sure.

Okay.

You just, you grind 2 tablespoons of the dried bud until it is finely powdered. And you can just use a coffee grinder or you can actually get a grinder for cannabis. Both work fine.

Okay.

You don't have either, you can actually— you can sit there and cut it up too yourself just until it's finely powdered. And then you're going to mix it with 3/4 cup of olive or coconut oil, and you simmer it on the stove for 20 minutes and just let it cool for 30. And then you just put it in a tincture bottle and enjoy it. And if it's too strong, you can, you know, obviously take smaller amounts, or you can go add more olive or coconut oil. If it's too, you know, if it's not strong enough, you can add more herb to the mix.

Okay. And, you know, that sounds incredibly simple. Um, and this brings me to a question. What is the difference between this and, um, rick's oil? Because I actually had done a lot of research on rick's oil and wanted to try to use it to see if it would help me sleep. And, but it was very complex. Like it's just this sticky residue and I ended up hiring someone to do it for me cuz it was, I didn't know how to do it. But how do those function differently?

Um, you know, it, it is a huge process making the Rick Simpson. It's very different, very dangerous. So there's one component. The other is that Rick Simpson is way more potent and Rick Simpson oil is also, you could just say hash oil. Okay, a lot like hash oil, and that's the most concentrated form of cannabis that there is. So depending on your, you know, mix of Lyme and co-infections, you risk having an extreme Herxheimer reaction if you just start off with Rick Simpson oil. So I prefer this tincture. I know many who do. I have tried Rick Simpson once and I found it quite delightful. This was, you know, pretty far into my healing process. So when I didn't have tons of Lyme floating around anymore, right? So I can only imagine, you know, I couldn't even smoke cannabis whenever I had really strong Lyme without just freaking out. Like that first night when I used it, I should add that I freaked out for a few hours thinking I was going to die. So that definitely happened. And with Rick Simpson oil, a lot of people have that times, you know, 100. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Yeah, maybe we should go back a little bit and talk about, you know, if someone's new to this whole process, they've heard about cannabis and they want to try it, you know, there is legal restrictions. What is the best way for someone to find out if they can get a legal medical card in their state?

I mean, just Google it. Most people are aware. I would, you know, I guess most people are aware if it's legal in their state. And if it is, you know, just Google to see your own state guidelines. You know, there are a few states where it's legal recreationally too, so you can purchase up to a certain amount yourself without a medical card and then go make it. If you live in a state where it's illegal, I, you know, I get this question a lot. What do I do? How do I make it? And I can't, I can't really legally, right? You know, to tell you how to do it legal. Um, no, I can just tell you what I did, which is I didn't tell anyone what I was doing when I did it. I just did it. I didn't even tell my family at first, you know, no one knew because I knew they would try and stop me.

Yeah, maybe we should talk a little bit about the misconceptions of it, because even for Sarah's journey, uh, one of the things that was really interesting is she used so much at first because, uh, her, her symptoms needed it, and she almost, uh, felt like she could feel the THC and going to the pain point where it almost radiated around that pain point and, and she could actually feel it absorbing. Um, your book is very scientific, way over my head, which by the way, well done to you.

What a task.

Thank you. It took about 6 months of dedication.

I believe it. And that's actually That sounds pretty fast.

Yeah, you know, it really is. A lot of people say that, but I really had no other priorities at that time, so I was kind of a recluse.

Oh yeah, I can relate to that.

Yeah.

I told Aaron, I'm like, I, I'm not the same person I once was, even, uh, socially. It just wears me out pretty fast.

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. So you could feel, um, you say you could feel it radiating around the center of pain. I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean.

You know what? For me, like, my cervical or right behind my neck, like C1, C2, was just always hurting. And so when I started to use it, it just felt like it was getting absorbed into that hole.

Gotcha. Gotcha. So it took care of the pain?

It did. At that point, I was so sick that, um, I like, I, I don't know if I could have taken enough really, right? Um, and I couldn't smoke. And so, um, I was so sick and so weak that— and I didn't— wasn't a smoker to begin with, so it just would make me cough if I tried to smoke it. And I, um, I just couldn't sit there and smoke enough of the time to make it worthwhile. So I actually started buying butter and just like cutting it into chunks and swallowing it.

Wow.

You're—

um, well, do you know what strain you used, if it was indica or sativa dominant?

Sativa dominant, usually.

Interesting, interesting. And it helped with pain?

Um, well, you know, it was It really depended on our source at the time, right? We did have— we do have a medical marijuana card here in New Mexico, but at the time it was, uh, you know, finances and that kind of thing. So, right, it was really dependent on what we could— what our budget was. So we ended up kind of experimenting with different blends and sativas for her seemed to do a little bit better for the pain.

I don't even remember.

Yeah, which is probably a good— yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah, you know, a lot of people find indica to be better for pain, which is why I found that interesting. Um, sativa seems to be better as an antibacterial. You know, it— the higher THC seems to be— for me, it was more of a painful experience, um, sometimes extremely painful die-offs. But, you know, it did produce giant die-offs.

Wow.

Yeah, and that's what's so amazing. So where did you go to find your research for the book? Because I know that there's like— or they say there's not a lot of research out there.

I read hundreds of research papers from research journals. So all of that's really, you know, the most important ones are in the back of my book. The, um, in the bibliography where you can find those research papers.

Okay.

But of course, if you, you know, there's not a lot of research on Lyme and cannabis. If I tried to Google Lyme and cannabis for research, it would come up with my own stuff, and that's helpful.

Okay, well, let's talk about the heel aspect. So you— it's a significant part of your healing, but it's not the only thing you've done.

Correct.

Yeah, which seems to be across the board for everyone.

Well, the first time, I think it was one of the major times, like I said, or one of the major things. The second time, um, no, it, it took so many other different things. Um, I think the most important though was getting the IVs I got, which was the silver, the colloidal silver, um, the two different kind of blood glutathione pushes, Myers cocktail, and Plaquex to rebuild my cell walls. And I did this 5 days a week for about 3 and a half months.

Okay, and you— your physician is the one who set this up, or are you kind of piecing together these different treatments?

No, my physician set up the IVs, Dr. Minkoff.

Okay, and is Dr. Minkoff taking patients? For anyone listening?

Oh yes, I would suggest anyone with Lyme who can to run to that place. They— I mean, I was living in black mold before I went there, and the before and after of me going there, I looked like I was about to die before I went there. The guy literally, you know, he saved my life. Oh, he's just amazing.

Wow. And where is that? Where is he located?

In Clearwater, Florida.

Okay. Shelley, I want to read a part out of your book that I thought was definitely worth mentioning. It says, and this was, I think, one of your first nights when you were experimenting, you said, after countless hits of weed, my doors of perception opened and I saw things clearer than I had in years. My usually irrational, frantic thoughts, which constantly ran a race with no finish line, transmuted into rational steady ones working in synchronicity— is that how you say that— with one another to methodically create their own destiny. And I— tell me, tell me what came from that.

Um, I guess what I mean is, how do I put this, things actually seemed clearer. It actually, um You know, usually I was just laying there thinking, I need to do this, I need to do that, a constant to-do list in my head, and none of it really fit together. I'm sure a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah. And when I was really high, you know, I had grown up with the misconception that people who are high were, you know, borderline autistic at all times. But once I got really high, I actually— it became pretty clear what I needed to do. Which was to just implement that in my protocol every night and to take my herbs throughout the day and to just chill out, you know. Yeah. And I was really surprised by that because I, I began to see how it affects the brain much differently once I was in it, if that makes sense.

It does. And when I read that part of your book, I want to read part of what I journaled one night, um, because I had a bunch of misconceptions too and, you know, just didn't understand a lot of it. But I wrote I realized early that I could see more clearly through the lens of medical cannabis than I could through the fog of chronic pain.

Absolutely.

And it was one of those things, and I'm in the process of writing kind of my narrative of, you know, just my experience of being ill. And one of the things I told Aaron is, you know, I didn't— I wanted to be genuine. I didn't want to need medications to make me want to have a good time or be happy or any of those things. And I almost felt like by taking something that I was kind of losing a part of my personality or just not being genuine. And when I wrote that down, I told Aaron, I said it, it almost was like this whole new world in the sense of he said, Sarah, all you do is cry anyways. Like I, so much of my personality had washed away. And I knew it, you know, on pain meds you go up and down all the time and I had been on them and my running dialogue in my head was, stop the pain, stop the pain, stop the pain, stop the pain. And it was there all the time. But this allowed me to literally think without hearing stop the pain every second.

Right, exactly. And, and, you know, it's a good point. You said that you, you know, you expressed how you don't want to just medicate yourself. You want to be genuine. I'm like that too. I quite love myself. I don't I like to be sober, you know. That's why I also don't take it during the day. However, you know, it's not— you're still being genuine if you use cannabis, especially to heal, because we're hardwired to interact with cannabinoids. We have an endocannabinoid system, and it's a plant, you know. It's— you couldn't get more genuine than that. We're meant to interact with the plant.

Wow.

Right, absolutely.

Yeah, I— it has been an interesting journey. You know, like Sarah said, there was so many times where we were learning how to do this and the misconceptions of it.

I seriously, I was such a horrible smoker. I'm like sitting there with— on the computer on YouTube saying, "How to smoke weed." And I'm like watching the videos to try to get all the coordination of the lighter and breathing. And I was like, oh, this is the worst. Like, I should have started smoking earlier in life. By the time I was sick, I felt like I couldn't learn it.

Hey, don't feel bad. I had only done it a handful of times growing up. And each time it was an awful experience, right? Be all twitchy and stuff. And I would think, oh my God, can everyone tell I'm twitching? And that would just make me more paranoid. So I'd end up just going home and going to sleep, and it took me years to realize that, hey, I was probably having a minor Herx. And this whole time I thought, why do people smoke this? This is such an awful experience. How are they laughing, you know? And only now that my Lyme is dormant can I kind of begin to understand how people enjoy it recreationally, you know. But ever since the first time I tried it, I had Lyme in me, so it was never fun. Right.

Yeah, and that's a good point you're making there, Shelley, is because even like there's a morality issue for us. We're of a conservative background, and so there's a little bit of a morality. And one of the things we really made it okay for us is that it is literally just a medicine. It is no different. In fact, it's less than most of the opiates that she was taking. Oh yeah, I mean sleep medicine alone. I mean, her on a sleep medicine versus her on a bunch of THC, like, it's totally different. She would binge eat more on sleeping pills, right, and be more out of control on those than she would be.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, and you know, those pills also, those, um, have bad chemicals in them while cannabis has good chemicals. Um, cannabis also replaces what, like 10 of those pills? Pills with one herb, right? Goes to a sleeping pill, an antibacterial, antiviral, you know, an anti-pain medication and ADHD medication. And, you know, the list goes on and on.

Yeah.

So another thing you said in your book that I wanted to bring out, you said a lot of people have been very supportive of your book. And how long has it been out?

Since last April.

Okay, you said, I have also received— you received a bunch of positive but also received emails filled with hatred and criticism. This has opened my eyes to one of the most profound truths my journey to regain my health has taught me: people fear most what they do not understand.

Right.

And I really like that because, um, you know, the first time we received our Lyme voice hate mail, I cried and it hurt my feelings and And then, but the thing that was bugging me was I'm like, we should all be on the same side.

Oh yeah.

Like, I don't understand this. Everybody, you know, there's, there's a thousand ways to do things and they can all be right and good and have their own aspects. And then you just kind of learn you have to put on a thick skin and move forward because you're never going to make everyone happy.

Right. You're never going to fit into their little box. And if you do, you're going to be miserable. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, my hate mail, that started coming when I first wrote my article about it. What was that, maybe 3 years ago? And I understood that the people just didn't understand because I thought, you know, hey, I've been you. I mean, never bored enough to hate mail someone, but I used to, you know, be pretty anti-cannabis, so it's cool. Yeah, so yeah. For me, it really opened my mind to a lot of truths that I thought were true growing up that just weren't. It was just conditioning for me.

And that's so true to be conscientious of your blueprint, how you view things, whether it's how you view pain, how you view cannabis. I even realized, and I don't even think I'd ever had a discussion about cannabis, but I had those assumptions that You know, like, like you said, I'm not sober and therefore, like, I'm different or I don't know. How do you describe that?

Weak, maybe.

Yeah, maybe.

Or impaired.

Yeah. I didn't want to be impaired.

And you're impaired all the time, so.

Okay. But I didn't get that. It took me a while to understand that. I'm like, oh, I'm already living completely impaired at all times.

Yeah, right. I mean, it's a huge loss of control, you know, trying something like cannabis. Then a lot of people freak out on it because you are kind of losing control if you get high, and they're just not used to that. And, um, in Lyme disease, the amygdala is already overstimulated. So if you take a lot of THC, you know, you can stimulate that even more and freak out, right?

And but see, and even that, like We understand even with our kids who came from hard backgrounds, from orphanages, your amygdala gets shaped by the amount of distress your body's under or outside influences. And our brains are maladaptive. So you can, when you're living in constant, constant pain and constant crisis, like you said, out of control, your amygdala literally changes to accommodate that full-on stress mode.

Yeah.

Right.

Right. And even the emotional aspect of it. You know, that really— being able to pause that panic for Sarah was so refreshing. So much more refreshing than going to sleep and just being knocked out.

Oh, it's huge. It's so huge.

I really feel like emotionally, that was a surprising— you know, there's all those misconceptions that she's going to turn into this druggie pothead, you know, the whole stereotype. And when really this new person was birthed through it, the person I used to unknow. Once we were able to remove all those, those symptoms, all those issues, to be able to take her mind out of that spot, to put her her brain weighs back in a healthy pattern. I mean, it's just transforming. It really was transforming. We got, uh, with— in Sarah's case, we took her off of morphine.

Wow.

And probably 3 or 4 others.

Yeah, I got off all— I had been on pain meds for at least 7 years, and I lived on them, especially the last 5 years, 24/7. And Yeah, I was off all of them within a couple of weeks. Wow.

I mean, that's just huge. You know, talk about being a druggie. That's when you're on medication. Right? You know, before cannabis, God, they'd put me on so many psychotropics. It was just unreal. I mean, I was not myself anymore. Yeah. But I thought I was, of course. I didn't realize I was impaired until I look back now.

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's what happens.

And I actually knew I was impaired, but I almost thought using cannabis would be like a double impairment, right?

Yeah, like I said, I was, I was really against it. I thought it was just for fun and everything till I wanted to kill myself so badly so many nights, but there was a part of me that didn't want to, you know, so I was like, just try it, just try it.

Yeah, I mean, it's the despair. It's You know, we know so much about chronic pain and even how you're talking about the amygdala. And when the amygdala is triggered like that, it lowers your immune function, it lowers your cognitive skills. Like, you really are living in this prison. And I think, you know, anyone who is suffering should have access to something that can help them.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think it's important to note that You know, if you do not have access to cannabis for whatever reason, CBD oil is legal. Yeah, there have been recent studies showing that it works as a biofilm buster. So I have people say, well, can I, you know, CBD oil, do you recommend that? Well, if you can get actual cannabis, get cannabis, you know, you're gonna have over 700 healing components, whereas CBD oil is just an isolated extract of one of the chemical components. However, it's a biofilm buster, and that's huge.

Yeah, that is huge.

And a lot of our friends have started using the CBD oil because of their past addiction issues that they had, and because of the reason that it wouldn't get you high. Yeah, we've had several people, and you know, each person has to make that decision in their own heart and in their own mind. And but I think CBD oil is a really good option for those who may be a little more cautious to it. Hey friends, I wanted to tell you about Bluebird Botanicals. They produce and distribute high-quality CBD oil. From seed to production, they watch every single step very carefully. We really love their product. It has become a staple in our, in our supplement cabinet.

Yeah, and also I don't travel without it.

It is a must-have for us. And you know, with supplement companies, it's so important to know the company that you're using.

Yeah, to know the integrity of the company.

Yeah.

What's so neat about this company is they really do create an excellent product, and when we were thinking of starting LionVoice, this was the type of product we wanted to endorse.

Absolutely.

Products that were effective and safe and they do what they say they do. Yeah.

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Go ahead.

I said yeah. No, I do agree with you, definitely. I think it's a great starter if even if it's all you ever do, you know. It's also great for social anxiety, which a lot of people with Lyme struggle with after being isolated, clearly.

Right. Now, is that like post-traumatic stress, you think, or is it—

You know, I don't know. I do believe that people with Lyme develop a form of PTSD PTSD from, you know, their surroundings and the people around them trigger the memory of the trauma. But the, you know, social anxiety, I think a lot of that too is just we're different now and we start thinking, you know, can they tell that I'm brain fogged or this or that? Or you get well and you've been away from the year or from the world for 4 years and you come back and everyone is talking about all these things and you have no clue what they're talking about, you know. And not only that, everything they're talking about seems so surface and you've kind of forgotten how to put on a, you know, a fake act anymore. And so that breeds huge social anxiety.

I was telling Aaron, we went to an event with a bunch of people and for one of our kids' events. And I said the whole weekend, it was like a weekend trip. I was trying to think of something, small talk to like engage in small talk. And I'm very social. So this has never been an issue for me. And I'm like, I got nothing.

Yeah, no, it's a problem for me too.

That's so funny.

Yeah, well, from what I understand, going back a little bit, with CBD oil and medical marijuana, if you go to a dispensary, an actual legal dispensary, there's a lot of different options in the strain. So if, you know, from what we understood and what we learned is even if you didn't want to have a certain effect, you could select a different type of marijuana that was specially bred and specially grown in a way to help your, your specific needs.

Exactly.

And that was really cool to understand because most of my misconception was the guy on the corner Right, right.

Yeah. That's all there is.

Right.

You know, you can use one strain and then compare it to a different one you use a week later and it's like using a completely different herb. So you, you can't base one horrible experience and you know, you can't say it's all going to be like that because you could get an indica dominant the next time and it'd be a completely different experience.

So, okay, so for the average person out there, based on your recipe, that's a very simple solution, especially compared to Rick's oil, if they've done that research.

Right.

And it is— and from what I understand, Shelley, it is— it is better to take the oil for your Lyme patient versus smoking it.

Oh yeah, let's talk about that.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, Let's see, smoking— the problem with smoking is it's burned at such a high temperature that it busts the raw plant material, and you risk getting any carcinogens or toxins. And you also, you know, you bust a lot of the healing components that you otherwise would get if you were vaping or using an oil. When you smoke, it also— I mean, it suppresses lung function, the nitric oxide to your lungs, for 7 minutes. Which isn't a huge deal for most people, but, you know, I really don't recommend that. It doesn't seem very wise, especially, you know, I had mycoplasma pneumonia and chlamydia pneumonia as two of my co-infections. So to me, lung function is a pretty huge deal. So I did use a vaporizer though at different times along with the oil. And it was a little one that looked like an inhaler that you could actually put the dried herb in, and I did find that beneficial.

It's interesting, I just finished reading a book called Over My Head about a physician who was, uh, hit on a bicycle and had a brain injury. And what was so fascinating about it is all these things that she says throughout her journey are and she has brain damage are very much the things I've been saying within Lyme, like the inability to small talk or, you know, all these different things that I'm like, oh, okay, that's just who I've become. But it was interesting in her book to read, like, there are so many similarities. Like, it doesn't matter if it's Lyme or a car accident, when the brain isn't functioning the way it normally should, the consequences are severe.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, things like the small talk and stuff, they do get better.

Yeah.

Does get better.

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about Live, Shelley. Where, what has the response been from your book and are you working on a second one?

I am not working on a second nonfiction book right now. I'm actually working on some fiction.

Oh.

I do.

Yeah.

I haven't told anyone that. So there you go.

And I heard it here, folks.

See how that goes. And I just do freelance writing. I'm just kind of taking it day by day. You know, I'm putting my health first, you know, just trying not to overstress myself with anything. I've been very fortunate enough to have a support system where, you know, I have a place to live right now, an environment that is animal-free, mold-free, those kind of things. To where I can just really give myself the time to just chill and enjoy symptom-free life for a few months before throwing myself back out into the world too hardcore.

That's awesome.

Yes, so I, I feel very lucky about that.

It's so important. One of our, like, long-term goals is trying to find a house somewhere that people could come to live at, and it very inexpensively, to rest. Because the thing about Lyme is that It takes so long. It's not like, you know, it's not like this 2, 3 month process and you're back up on your feet. I've been in recovery for 2 years now and, and I've needed way more rest than I had access to. But, you know, there's just, there's, it takes so long that, and most people don't have that type of a setup where they can go for months and months in a good environment.

And you know, I have the huge problem of I have an overwhelming amount of energy and I, you know, I have since I was young and I forgot about it till I got well again and I'm like annoying to everyone, right? The minute I wake up, I'm like, let's go, blah blah, you know, just so insane. And so I have this problem where for days on end I'll be like that and just go, go, go, you know, make all these plans and then I just crash because I forget 'Hey, you need to give yourself a few months to just heal.' You know, even though the Lyme is dormant and everything, your body's not ready for that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's not. It is. It's such a— I think that's a hard aspect about the live, living your life afterwards is even a lot of people, they look at me and they think I'm totally normal and competent and capable and And I am in some areas, but I walk this very precarious line every week.

Is your Lyme suppressed now?

Yeah, it is.

Great. Congratulations.

Thank you. I know, but it is.

It, it, it—

you have to be so conscientious of not only just your food, but your environment and your work schedule. And absolutely, because you don't wrestle with those challenges in the same way.

No, definitely not. And I think while we're on this, I should go ahead and mention that I find it imperative to stay on a maintenance dose of oil, you know, or any type of antimicrobial once you are in remission. For me, that's oil.

And how many drops do you take then a night?

At night, I do anywhere from 1 dropperful to 3 dropperfuls.

Okay.

Lately I've been doing one dropper full.

It's interesting, in that book over my head, she says, um, at the heart of her difficulty was the absence of a net to catch her constant falls. And she's talking about that precarious line where things kind of have to be in order, stress levels have to be kind of low in order for things to look like they're functioning well. Because it does for me. I have to think through everything that I do. I can't just like get up and multitask and juggle things and have it all straight. I have to like think through everything.

Yeah, absolutely. How long have you been in remission?

You know, I don't— at least a year.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. And I still am, you know, every 3 months I do better.

Right.

But, you know, we also have 5 kids. And so every day is, you know, it just requires a lot.

Right, absolutely. See, it's just me and my boyfriend here. I got rid of my animals and everything, so— Aww. Yeah, I would say you're doing well.

Let me ask you this. One of the things we've noticed with medical marijuana and Sarah's mental condition, a lot of it is described as brain fog or Lyme brain. Yeah, I have ADHD, which has turned out to be very similar to a lot of her symptoms. Yeah, and she has actually used the medical marijuana to improve her brain function. So what, like you said, when you're not clear and you're having a hard time making decisions the medical marijuana really helps clarify your brain, almost heal the ADD.

It does. It's almost like it removes the ADHD and I can think and make decisions again. And you have a chapter in your book about cannabis and ADHD.

I do, yes. I agree, it does. It helps me. For example, last night I did not take my oil, so today I'm I'm very all over the place. But I describe it as a feeling of, it feels like it's like whenever I take my oils, if it's removing blocks, like concrete blocks from my head. If that makes sense.

Yeah.

So what is happening there? Why is that, why is it working on a scientific level?

Shoot, I'm totally, see, I'm blinking.

That's all right.

I just know that it does. But, um, I'm assuming that it hyperfocuses your activity in one area of the brain.

Hmm. I mean, it's— correct me if I'm wrong, and both of you can speak from a Lyme perspective— it almost feels like even it's a combination of removing the pain, removing the anxiety. Like you said earlier, it's one herb to replace 5, 6 different medications. So it's so— it's really interesting to me, you know, because that one there blew my— some of my biggest misconceptions out of the water is when she was actually able to function clearly in her mind, you know, that, that was huge. That was just a huge point. And for her to continue to use it it has become not only an asset, but really a staple.

Right.

Yeah, it's another tool in your tool belt.

Well, I think, you know, on the ADHD thing, a lot of people, we do know a lot of people with ADHD, they have an endocannabinoid deficiency. Same is true with anxiety. So when you're putting cannabinoids in to bind with those receptors where you're deficient, I suppose that could explain a lot of the reason why you're able to focus better.

And Shelley, is this true? I heard that like THC can get through like damaged nerve cells or nerve endings. And so it can actually get into places that prescriptions can't, or regular pain meds can't, because it can work through damaged nerves.

Right. And I think also because it can bind to receptors that certain medications— I mean, they just can't. And if they can, it becomes a problem, not beneficial.

All right. So you're writing a book?

I write. I'm freelance writing right now. That's about it. I do volunteer work back home.

And has your writing come out of being sick, or was that— did you have a background in that before?

Growing up, I loved to write. You know, English was my favorite thing, but I would kind of just do it in hiding. You know, it wasn't cool to write when you were young. But I forgot— like I said, I forgot how to write when I first got sick, and I would stay up till 3:00 a.m. trying to piece sentences together, and I I actually had a pretty abusive ex-husband back then who would say, "Why are you trying to learn to write again? You know you're stupid. You're not going to get it." 'Cause I would— Oh, wow. You know, changing the words in one sentence over and over until it made sense in my head, and that really never happened. Sometimes I would get a paragraph by 3:00 AM, you know? But I just kept at it. And I used this little book called "The Little Red Writing Book" to teach myself more periods, when again and everything. So it became a thing of holding myself accountable to learn to write again and to read again. And then I started writing for the Examiner while I was still really sick because that, you know, that held me accountable. I had to write something every week and it just progressed from there.

Wow. Huh.

So yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have ever written a book without Lyme though. You know, I would have never stopped and tapped into the, you know, the creativeness of it.

Isn't that interesting? And that was even— and that's amazing to me because you had to struggle to relearn what you already knew.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I wanted to go to rehab for it and stuff, but insurance, they didn't recognize Lyme. They're not going to pay for me to get a therapist to teach me to read again, you know. So I had like elementary school books, you know, teaching myself to learn to read and write again.

Wow. Good for you.

Thank you.

It's so funny. I never learned— I never stopped being able to write, but I've had to learn how to redo because I was in bed for so many years and I couldn't bend down or lift or do anything. I've had to relearn, like, how to do laundry, how to—

the simple Yes. Yeah.

They're simple things that because my lack of stamina controlled every move that I made, I really have had to relearn. I feel like I'm relearning how to do everything.

Absolutely. I mean, down to putting on makeup for me. I'm like, how do I put on makeup? I, I literally would Google that.

That's awesome. So good thing we have Google, man. So, okay, life after Lyme. What are you doing to live differently that you wouldn't have done?

Oh God, everything. I'm more in control of my environment. I think that's one of the most empowering things. It's also been something that a lot of people think makes me paranoid, but I'm very aware of my environment. I'm very aware of the chemicals around me. Of mold. My nose is like a mold detector. My family jokes that should be my job. I can walk into a building and say there's mold. I'm very picky about what I put in me, what I put on me. Everything to me is a choice environmentally, whether it be energy-wise, like what people I have around me, or like I said, literally like chemicals and if it's organic or not.

Yeah.

So I— it's all about, for me, you know, maintaining a good state of health for me is really, really dependent on my environment, and it's up to me to keep a stable, healthy, sanitary one that is conducive to my healing.

Yeah, and that's so important.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that has been a common theme for us as well because when you start to lose control.

Yeah.

With Lyme, once you're missing it, you really notice. I think that's such a great attitude, is to be in control of it. Not out of— like you said, it almost seems a little—

not like a control freak, but at the same time, far in a way, you know. People think you are. People think a lot. I know a lot of people, I appear like I'm a brat, right? Because I'm like, no, I can't have that around me. Me. Just seem, you know, we just got a new apartment, I'm already asking for a new one because there's a smell I don't like. And so it does seem to people like I'm a brat. I get that, but I don't care at the same time, right?

Yeah, you have to fight to stay alive.

So, you know, and you touched on it even as far as having an ex. Understanding the people you have around you is so important because the fight is so— it's long and it's costly on a lot of levels. And if you don't have people in your life that are cheering you on and supporting you, I mean, I've said it, I had supportive family. And honestly, I don't know if I could have done it without support if I was dealing in addition to the disease, negativity and, you know, self-doubt or doubt.

Right. You know, and I think it's so hard because we all know that to be true. You know, it's a It's a basic truth. Surround yourself with positive people and you're more likely to heal. And we have people who are surrounded by negative people who are really sick and they say, well, you know, what am I supposed to do? I can't get out of here. I'm too disabled to work. I'm surrounded by these people no matter what, you know. So is it hopeless? And that's how they feel because we tell them you must be surrounded by positivity, but they can't, you know. And what I can say is for over a year of my life, I was in a very abusive relationship and it broke me. You know, my doctors would tell me, oh, you, you can't get well as long as you're around him. You know, you just can't do it. And I felt I didn't have a choice. Right. And it made me stronger. You know, it was, it was really painful during it, but towards the end of it, I became the stronger version of myself who then took control of her own health. So if you can't get away from the negative people, you can find a space inside yourself. You know, to retreat to— how do I put this— to where they can't completely tear you down.

Yeah, almost like a boundary.

Yeah, exactly. Like, it's like an invisible boundary, an invisible space, your inner core. You know, you're in touch with that, and they can't touch that part of you.

And that's an invaluable lesson. Whether you're healthy or sick.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I wanted to read one more quote. What is one of the quotes, Shelley, that you most appreciate being in print at this point from your book?

Honestly, I think it's probably the one you read to me about the thing that man fears the most is what he does not understand.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Okay everyone, you can go to Amazon or you can go to LymeVoice.com. We'll have it on there. And Shelley, author of Cannabis for Lyme Disease and Related Conditions, and it's the scientific basis and anecdotal evidence for medicinal use. Shelley, thank you for being with us.

And where can people get a hold of you if they want to contact you?

Um, they can reach me, I suppose, by my personal email.

Okay.

Which is shellywhitem@gmail.com.

Thanks, Shelly.

And thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you.

All right, you guys take care.

Bye. Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters! Keep it up. We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Okay, Lincoln?

Okay.

The medical information on LionVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay?

Okay.

LionVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln?

Got it.

From the creators of Lime Voice and Disappearing from Society comes a brilliantly simple idea, but this time it comes as a book. Imagine a world in which birds can talk like people. You'll get a bird's-eye view of life with Lyme disease as one bird family must unite to overcome the obstacles of life with Lyme disease. Guaranteed to make you laugh and cry. Written in a way that helps you articulate the losses you are experiencing as a household while simultaneously empowering you to keep fighting. Little Bites Big Trouble is available today at amazon.com.