037-Doing Life And Lyme At The Same Time

Congratulations, Lyme Fighter! Today you had the courage to open your eyes and face another day. Welcome to Lyme Voice. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place. Each episode is designed to inspire, educate, and encourage you on your Lyme journey to wellness. Together we will fight. Together we will heal. Together we will live. Here are your hosts, Aaron and Sarah Sanchez.

Wishing your doctors could communicate and come up with a cohesive plan specific to your medical needs and genetics? At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach, giving you the opportunity to heal. In addition to a commitment of providing radical love and care for their patients, they are strategically located in sunny Arizona because Arizona offers the best integrative medical laws in the country. Call today to speak with one of their patient care coordinators. You can find them online at invita.com.

Welcome to Lime Voice, where fighting is a mindset, healing consists of choices, and living is the outcome. As always, I have my beautiful wife, Sarah Sanchez. Yay! Welcome to this episode of Lime Voice, where we talk with Stephen and Heather Groeters once again on the second part of us interview.

So happy you guys are joining us for this episode. This is a continuation of the interview that Heather and Stephen Groeters did with us. They turned the mic around And really it's just about trying to do life and Lyme together at the same time.

Yeah, which is, as any of you know, it's hard to live. I mean, how are you supposed to continue with life and deal with this horrendous disease at the same time? I think it was important for me and Heather to give our side of it because the spouse or the, or the family member having to deal with it too, it's equally as hard.

Yeah, and that's what I feel like I understood. I mean, I talked about it with the earlier episode of, you know, understanding the healthier viewpoint, but also one of the valuable parts of this interview is talking about like when those downward spirals start to happen, how you cope as the sick person and how you cope as the healthy person. And what is astounding in this is how many years it takes to even identify those downward spirals, like, as they're unfolding. How many years it took us to kind of, like, realize what was going on and how to try to stop it or counteract. Yeah, so much, so many years.

Yeah, it's not easy. So hopefully this really helps give you listeners out there an idea of not only how to do it, but how to communicate to your significant other or friend or whoever on how to proceed with this.

Yeah, and then there's just some really good basic information about what's your go-to when you start to hit a fatigue point or a downward spiral, what's your go-to protocols, identifying triggers that can cause flare-ups, and just kind of that balance of life and Lyme and, and work, walking it out.

Yeah, I know that just doing the interview with them was very healing just to hear someone else's perspective to acknowledgment that this is significant. How did you get through this?

Well, because so often, like, the— I felt like the mental self-condemnation— oh yeah, is just constant.

Terrible.

Because you're having to push yourself every second of every day just to survive. And so you have this huge list of like, oh, I should be doing these other things as a business person, as a mom. You know, all these roles that get neglected. So I think that that's a big part of it.

Before we go, let's tell them about our two events we got going on here. We got Little Bite, Big Trouble. Yeah, the book that Sarah has produced.

It's a children's book.

It's on Amazon, available now.

Yes. And if you have signed up for our newsletter, you will be receiving a download copy of the documentary, 20-minute documentary that I've been working on called Disappearing from Society. And we're getting like huge responses through Facebook groups. And so yeah, I hope you guys enjoy it.

And thank you so much to all of you who have written in and given us a part of your story. You know, it's heartbreaking and touching all at the same time to hear your guys's story, but that's why we're here doing it. It's I mean, that's been our reward up to this point, is just to hear your guys' story, to hear what you're going through. And man, so many of you have written in and, and opened up the door of communication. So, so glad to hear you. It, you know, when you're just sitting on this side of the mic, you don't know if people are actually listening, but you are. And we're glad to be of service, and we hope to continue this.

But in the meantime, we've loved getting those emails and stories and stuff. So I track our statistics And season 1, we got like about 0.5% of you who listened. Half a percent of you would contact us. And just based off of the first episode from season 2, we're up closer to like 2%, which is a really big jump when you're talking about thousands of downloads.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah. Well, we hope you enjoy this episode. And we'll see you next time. All right.

So Sarah, the next couple of questions are really aimed at you. And you're kind of in a— a phase with your journey where things are starting to become maybe more consistent and—

Yeah.

But you probably still have moments where your symptoms flare up. So when that does happen, what's your go-to move when your symptoms flare for you?

Cancel whatever it is I have going on for the next few days. I have learned that even if I make plans and I have to cancel them, I have to be okay with that and not to like just be in a consistent backlog. I end up canceling plans and I hunker down and I do 2 enemas, I juice, I make sure my kids are getting good food, I go to bed early. I just have to give myself freedom to do what I have to do because I can't take care of anybody if I'm not feeling good. So my kind of default at this point is just going right to my protocol. Am I getting all my salts by the end of the day? You know? And sometimes it's something as simple as like, I got a new shipment of vitamins, but I haven't sorted them. Them so I don't have my little baggie. Or there's usually some level of that. And then yoga too. Yoga, and then making sure I'm doing daily declarations and just kind of going back to the basics, even though that looks different than it did even last year. I have more basics that I get to do, but I just hunker down. It's like definitely the safety net for me.

What about on the support sides? I'm looking at Aaron and Heather here. As you're supporting the people with Lyme disease, what's your go-to move when their symptoms flare?

Hmm. Let's see. Hmm. I think I have to do a mind shift to die to myself. You know, I just realized because Lyme doesn't, doesn't give you a break. It doesn't let you hit the pause button. It'll take and it will take big time if you don't address it. And so I think throughout 10 years of this, I've finally learned that when she's having a bad day, it's just to listen. You know, don't argue it. You can't argue it. It is what it is. Adjust and embrace yourself for it and get ready for it. And part of that for me is mentally forgetting and giving up what I had planned. So just to be able to, okay, the calendar's cleared, whatever is needed to happen, isn't going to happen, and that's fine, and that's okay. Because if you still push forward, it'll still take it back. It doesn't let you give up. It doesn't let you give. It has no play, you know. It won't bend to your schedule. It will not.

So, well, and what's interesting is in another interview, the person we were talking to compared Lyme with TB, where they really needed like sanatoriums. Is that the right word, sanatoriums? To heal where people were. And she was saying like with Lyme, we're starting to see this when you have this like 5 to 10 year healing period. I mean, that's crazy. And even for me, like I still have to put my— I put my kids on the bus and 3 days a week I have to go take a nap. And it's just a massive amount of rest that you have to get in order to function. Just feels like the bank takes so long to fill up. Where you can be like, oh yeah, I'll just be spontaneous, or I'll just, you know, it's never like that.

I think for me the first thing is to try to fight back the frustration. Like, yeah, first thing is like, oh, I'm so frustrated. Oh, we had this plan. Oh, I thought we were past this.

I knew this was going to happen.

Or I shouldn't— we shouldn't have gone. We shouldn't have overcommitted.

We should— yeah. And then the next thing is, okay, is it something I can, you know, can I push forward on my own? You know, if it's like a family event, can I go with just me and the kids? Is that, you know, depending on what the activity is, you know, is that possible? And then maybe after that is, I love to organize. And so I kind of decided that I'm going to be positive, which is if Stephen's laid out, oh, well, I'm going to look on the bright side of things and I'm going to find something to organize.

Nice.

So it's like, well, I can still do something I want to do that gives me some kind of, I don't know, meaning.

So you almost have like an action plan. If you're going to be a single parent for a weekend or a week, you go into single parent mode, right?

Yeah. It's much easier now that our kids are a little bit older.

Right.

When we were in the thick of it, that's when things were the hardest, two in diapers and everyone needed so much help with everything. And so it's a relief for us to be kind of past that point. They can run over to the neighbors and play for a while. And I'm not on all the time if Stephen's not, you know, if he's kind of laid out.

A lot of times when my symptoms flare, I don't realize that they're flaring.

Right.

I'm on the verge of throwing up all the time. And so some people would be like, why did you choose to drive into work? Only to throw up on yourself while you're on the highway. And it's because I can't tell the difference between I'm about to throw up and I'm, and I'm really throwing up. I can't. It all feels the same. So a lot of times when my symptoms flare, I'm already sort of way into a flare by the time I realize it. But now that I'm trying to become a veteran, yes, trying to become more advanced, I'm trying to get better at predicting or at least noticing earlier in the process I'm having a flare. And my go-to move is get away from Heather until I can get in the right frame of mind because I— well, it's not just Heather, get away from people until I can decide that I'm going to go through this the best way that I can with the cards that I'm dealt. And then looking at a preset list of here's the 15 things I normally do to help myself, right? And because you can't think through that when you're in a flare, so it's helpful to have it written down. But then even then, in a single word, it's really detox. Yeah, it is the body detox, your mind, it's detox, and it's like 15 different things that detox depending on how much energy you have.

Yeah, you're right, it is. That is what it is, because then you can be self-regulated.

It is interesting that, you know, you speak about being a veteran, and it took— we just brainstormed through the list of things that you should do in kind of an order of priority.

This just happened in the last Kind of like coming up with those algorithms of how to function, right?

So that he don't have to expend the mental energy of, uh, what do I do? So we finally talked about it and he wrote it all down, and now it's like he feels it coming on, he can read through the list, and all of that thought process is taken right out of there.

It's a joke, we were talking about this earlier, but it's a joke, but you get to a point where you're in so much pain that you would never think Did you try taking Tylenol? You know, I'm chronically on pain medicine right now, and so it's kind of a joke, but it's true. Every once in a while, the type of pain that's breaking through is satisfied by taking a Tylenol. And I'll tell you, when you're in those flares, anything that helps is helpful, right? So just having the word Tylenol written on the list is helpful because I'd skip right over that.

Right.

I'm in level 10 pain. How could that possibly help me or whatever? But not every time, but it does help and that's why it's on the list.

Hmm.

Well, and you've gotten really good at talking me down. Like I'll start kind of spiraling downhill and you're like, hey, everything's okay. We're not in crisis. People are all fed and clothed. Like he kind of has to talk me down. He's like, why don't you go to yoga? Or why don't you, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I do better with that. And before I was never that way. I would've been like, oh, I'll just do whatever I feel like is best because it was like very easy for me to make black and white decisions. Like, oh, this will be good. And now I really need him to be like, you do this. Like even you organizing the kids to do the chores. It's easier now for me to just do what he tells me to do. He's like, you're on dishes. I'm like, thank you. It's so easy when you tell me what to do.

So this next question, although, you know, Sarah, you definitely— you've got some answers for this to share with the audience, but sometimes pointing to our spouses gets to the heart of the matter really quick. So I'm like, you guys on the spot here with this next one, but what are the things that cause a flare of symptoms? So yes, sometimes they just happen, got it, but what are the— what's the trend? What's the pattern? What are the things that causes the flare of symptoms.

Sometimes, yeah, you don't know when they're coming, then they just come. I think we have— we've been more cautious with our schedule.

Very much so.

Um, you know, every event is accounted for and weighed. Is it worth— you know, what is it going to take to get there? Is it worth this? Is it worth that?

Even if this kid has soccer this week, can you really do blank this week? And so it's just like, I feel I feel like it's very streamlined.

Yeah, you almost kind of have to plan for worst case scenario. Well, no, that's not true.

Well, we were saying when we were at the park, Lincoln got to go to— Lincoln is 7. He has never been able to go to a classmate's birthday party because we couldn't afford the time and energy to let him go do that with people we didn't know. We're like, we don't even get to see the people we love. We're not going to go to a birthday party for 2 hours or whatever. But that was a huge win. To be able to just let him go to a 2-hour birthday party. Yeah, that's not normal.

I mean, what are things that causes a flare of symptoms for you?

I notice when you overdo it. So yeah, you love to be active, you love to, you know, you were so excited about running and then it just kind of bit you in the behind.

A little bit.

So yeah, just too much activity, strenuous activity.

So now I'm looking over to you, Sarah, just like as, as how would you answer that question? You know, if you're coaching somebody who's just getting into this, they're 6 months into it, just have a diagnosis or have a hunch of a diagnosis.

I feel like I'm at a higher level of stability at this point. So I'm not rocked as bad as I used to be, but ask me that question again.

What causes symptoms to flare?

Yeah, events, like back-to-back events where there's not a lot of time to rest in between. Feeling unsafe, like not having what we need to go buy what we need. It's not hard for me to get the chores done at this point, but like if we don't have time, energy, and money altogether, then it kind of throws me off. And a lot of it is internal. I'm like, I'm a failure as a person. And so that's my big struggle of like being so disappointed with some stuff where we're at because of the length of the illness, because of the time demands, money demands.

Yeah.

Would you say the triggers for a flare of symptoms have changed over the decades?

Oh yeah, of course. I think they ebb and flow. You know, you have kids who have emotional needs here and there and I think it's always ebbing and flowing. That's what's hard about it.

I think too that your key of feeling safe in a situation, and for that, for me, that looks like I need to organize the situation for you. So if you're crashing or you're overwhelmed and you're starting to feel unsafe, the best thing I can do to pull you out of that is to say, okay, I got it, I'll handle this, I will you know, and just to, to give you the freedom to let go of the schedule or of whatever agenda you had. Yeah, I think that does help pull you out of that quicker, is by giving you that security of I will handle this, don't worry.

Right. Yeah, so I struggle with cognitive function and like decision-making abilities. So if things are calm, it's fine. If I feel safe, it's fine. And when those things start going downhill, then I'm like, "Huh." Like the load is too heavy. Like I can't, you know, it's just that precarious balance of getting things in order. And I was never that way. I was like, "Oh, let's do whatever and fly by the seat of my pants and it's no big deal. And sure, we can throw in a couple more kids when we go swimming." Like nothing was a big deal to me. It was just, I was easygoing, I felt like, and I'm not anymore. And I'm getting some of that back, I think.

But it's what you had to do to survive. I mean, you shouldn't have to apologize for, you know, okay, so you didn't go out and above and beyond, right? 6 kids to the pool instead of just 5, right?

It's okay.

And I overcomplicate our life out of guilt.

Yeah.

And I knew that But like, I don't wanna tell my kids that like the set rule of like, you have to do the dishes every few days because what if they don't feel good or what if like I already had them babysitting the little kids for me and so then I don't wanna like heap a burden on them. But what I end up doing is heaping the burden on me and then nothing gets done 'cause I'm like, oh, I should be able to get to that. So he's much better at being like, No, delegate. Let the kids do the work and removing me and being like, no, it's okay, go do yoga. Because like, if we all come back around quicker.

I think for me what has caused a flare has changed in just 5 years. But I think what stands out to me in this, in this discussion are the things that don't cause a flare. I was told when I first started having chronic pain, I had mostly pelvic type pains. And I was really coached by several doctors, don't, don't ride a bicycle. That's putting pressure on muscles in that area. Don't ride a bicycle. Well, talk about taking out the one thing that I do want to do. That probably covered the biggest one all in one big hit. Don't ride a bicycle. And so I did not. I chose— I mean, I was desperate, so I listened to that. And then one day I just got to a point where I was like, it can't get any worse, so I might as well ride a bike. And then I found that by riding a bicycle I lost myself in the moment, and I had probably 10 minutes. I'm sure pain was there, right? My brain was thinking about something else. I was effectively distracted. And so in that moment, I learned that maybe this isn't triggering a flare of symptoms. And since that time, I've ridden almost 3,000 miles on my bike. Wow, those are really important miles for me.

Good for you.

Those are important miles where I'm not snapping at the kids. Where I'm not sitting at the couch, where I am getting vitamin D. And so I think, you know, if I was gonna coach myself 5 years ago, it would be carefully and persistently challenge the boundary of what you think makes you flare and start by adding back or testing things that really matter to you. Those are the things you've gotta get back in your calendar as fast as possible or to the extent as much as possible. You gotta get that stuff back in. If you're an extrovert, you got to find ways of getting back out with people. You know, if you're an introvert, you need to find ways of finding times where you can think.

Well, I think that's really key for the spouse too, or the healthy one. They have to self-care in order to keep things going.

So kind of a fight, heal, live— so a live question here. When you look back at the hundreds of doctor visits that you've been through over the years, Think back to one, or recall a time when you were feeling good during a doctor's visit or after following a doctor's visit. What made you feel good? What was happening in that moment that helped you feel better?

For me, if I felt like they believed me and were proactively like searching for options, I felt good. I felt hopeful, like at least they're listening to me, which was huge for me when I finally saw a pain doctor because he was like, I believe you and I'm working on ways to eliminate the pain. It wasn't just like, okay, let's try this. Like he had a storehouse of things and just being heard and acknowledged because I just didn't get it for so long. So to just be heard, I think, is huge. There did come a point where even being heard was no longer enough, which is when we went out to Arizona. I'm like, yeah, I get it, you can all see my seizures now, so now everybody believes me. I'm like, this has been going on internally for years and people are finally seeing what I feel.

Heather, when were you encouraged in a situation where I, I went to a doctor or Think of a time you were encouraged to go to hundreds of doctors' visits. And just for the audience's sake, I personally, just in 5 years, I think I've gone to 30, 36 healthcare professionals. Not all of them MDs, but, you know, licensed in some form or another.

Wow. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Two things for me come to mind. One wasn't necessarily a doctor. It was reading that one book. I can't remember. You'll remember it, I'm sure. Anyway, where I was crying reading the whole book because it was so spot on about you. Hmm. So that just felt like, oh, finally, there's, you know, this isn't just Stephen's specialty. There's, there's something more to, you know, there's information about this. And it was just good to read it in a book, your situation. So that was huge.

And then the other one on adrenal fatigue, I think so.

And then the other one is seeing our current doctor, just someone who has experience specifically with it and having that hope of, okay, this isn't their first rodeo, this isn't their first time. They're not just kind of shooting in the dark. They have some experience and some knowledge and hopefully we can get somewhere.

I got lucky like you, Sarah. I got lucky a couple of times where I had seizures in the doctor's office.

And they saw it.

I was just so grateful. Yes, finally, you know. And that just really caused me to, to be encouraged. Outside of that, I think for me being encouraged was stop going to doctors that are unhelpful. And you guys, Aaron, you've mentioned that several times in previous episodes. Like, if you're not getting what you need out of a doctor, move on, move on. Talk about energy draining.

Oh my gosh.

And even with Dr. Naylor, who's helped me quite a bit, even with him, somebody who has a Lyme tail and a Lyme experience that sees hundreds of people with this, you don't have to spend your time trying to prove things to him. I'm still drained when I leave most of those appointments. And then, you know, you put yourself into a situation where somebody doesn't see, doesn't believe, doesn't understand, and you walk out of there totally defeated, wiped out, defeated. Frustrated. For me, it's hard to say what comes first, a flare of symptoms causes frustration or frustration causes a flare of symptoms. They definitely go together. I snap at the kids when I have more symptoms.

Oh, of course. You're suffering. I mean, that's what it is. It is suffering on such a scale, it's unfathomable because you yourself don't believe it. Like, there's no way this is real. I've got to be making some of this up. The fact that how could I have bone pain and a tendon pain and all these different things that you're like, this does not make sense. And you're caught up in that world in your own head, and it makes everything else like you just feel separated from the whole world. For nearly 2 decades, Invita Medical Center has been leading the way with the latest in personalized treatment options designed for patients dealing with Lyme disease complex.. At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach and the latest technology regarding treatment and testing at an unmatched radical love and care environment for their patients. Call to speak to one of the patient care coordinators today to learn why hundreds of patients choose Invita Medical Center each year. You can find them online at invita.com.

So for Aaron, what are some things that you simply, over the— gosh, 2 decades now coming on for you guys— what are some things that you simply refuse to let slide or let go? Just didn't happen. It did not happen. You would not let it go. You did not let it go.

Things we didn't give up? Right. Dinnertime. Yeah, dinnertime I think was one of the things, even though it was really hard, I always wanted us to have a consistent dinnertime where we could at least sit down. And I think that was important for the family because we needed to have— I mean, there's— Lyme destroys everything. It destroys your normal family function, what you thought your family was going to function like. But at least we could come together once a day You know, it's probably ended up about 5 times a week, but at least we could do that and see each other.

And, you know, even if we're eating cereal together. This question and your answer provides a lot of insight. You're still married. Huge. That is an inspiration. That's an inspiration. I mean, how many times, you know, I personally, even being the one sick, I just wanted to cut the other person go out of that guilt you mentioned guilt. I often would try to put myself in the position of the other person, and I would, in that sort of mental challenge or mind game, I would find myself wanting to leave. And so I just would kind of go through that. But you're still married, and so kind of hearing that it's some of the practical, fundamental, we're going to be a family for 20 minutes every day over dinner. Yeah. Heather, how about you? What have you simply refused to not let go of through this?

It's funny, I had— I've been thinking about this question for a while, but right before Aaron shared, I was thinking in my case it was probably our marriage. I mean, I, you know, that was something. And our— I mean, family in general too. I spent a lot of time kind of bridging a gap that, you know, Stephen's illness created, which was, you know, our 3 boys didn't have an active interactive father for a lot of their young years, and so I probably overdid it, I'm guessing.

You're a wonderful father.

I make a great father, but you know, I didn't want— I think I had fear that they would have some kind of emotional— I didn't know that I could personally handle any emotional upheaval from them not having active parenting, and so I think a lot of it was out of fear that, you know, I just, I've got to, I got to be everything, I got to do it all, I got to buffer them from this and make sure that they're not scared about what's going on with you and that kind of thing. So I spent a lot of my energy there just kind of protecting them. I don't know.

Yeah, I think I— one of the things that I held on to is that I would not commit suicide.

That was a goal?

Oh yeah, yeah. And I had several friends— yeah, it makes me emotional just thinking about it. I had a couple of friends whose parents had committed suicide, and it was so devastating. Like, I had felt like I had already inflicted so much loss on them that I knew in not being able to do anything, I could still prevent them from leaving. I didn't want them to have the pain of losing me to one extent, and then the continued pain that goes on after a suicide. And I just, that was one of the few things I'm like, okay, I can't control anything, but I can control that. Like, I will not burden them in that way.

And if you're listening to this, you know, one thing I would encourage you to do is, if that is a goal of yours— and figure out for yourself if that is your goal, to prevent a suicide— but if that is your goal, own up to it, write it down, tell somebody else.

That's a great idea.

My goal is to not commit suicide, and just— I have that same goal, and just having that goal has changed a couple of days for me. And it's really important because of all the decisions that we can reverse or overcome or make up, that's one you can't. Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's important to kind of be bolstered and ready for the times that you will be challenged. Lyme takes, takes, takes. You mentioned that a lot, Erin, and you've gotta be able to get to a point where this is one thing I'm not willing to give up and to know what that is, to know what your limit is, to have it written down, share it with somebody who knows you loves you. And frankly, in my own life, writing something down makes it that much more likely to occur, right? And saying something out loud makes admitting to something makes it that much more likely to be real.

Yeah, it— your words and your declarations and your goals create possibilities out of impossible situations, but It's those words that go forward and speak, you know, speaking life into the chaos or speaking life into the disease in the sense of like putting up boundaries.

There's some stuff you can't do, but I think people outside of Lyme sometimes miss the point that, you know, you frequently hear this for people who are not used to talking about the word suicide. Well, they'll quickly dismiss it and say, well, that's something you can't do. And then move on. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can do that. That is an option, and people do choose it, right? So let's not just glance over that because it's uncomfortable. In fact, let's take that one really serious because it's one of the few decisions in this life you can't take back. Yeah, yeah, let's, let's be serious about that one.

Yeah, flip side of that, I think it's really hard for people outside of Lyme to understand where someone going through Lyme is, like really the depth of the challenge. So when you make that, you know, written statement or that public declaration to somebody that, hey, you know, this is my commitment, that I am, you know, my goal is to not commit suicide, I think in some ways too that kind of substantiates what you're going through to someone who doesn't understand. And they're like, oh, that's where they're at. They're at, you know, the level of suicidal thoughts. And that's also kind of a, you know, it's like a huge red flag, you know, that is a way of expressing, "No, no, what I'm going through is really hard and this is where I'm at." I heard a quote that said, people—

I put it on, I think, Lionboys' page— "People don't commit suicide because they want to die. They commit suicide because they want the pain to stop." And I was like, "Yeah." That's it. That's it.

It's speaking truth into the situation. It's not that I want to die, it's that I don't want to suffer anymore. I don't want pain anymore. I want to be able to sleep. I want to be able to get up and walk. I want to be a father or a parent. I want to be a spouse. And I think speaking those truths can defuse those moments. And that's really key for me in meeting that goal. I know in my own life. So I think you hit the nail on the head. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So we're kind of winding up to what we feel is sort of the last question for the seasoned veterans here to share with. But outside of finding a cure, what's something that you two would like to see happen for all people with Lyme disease, all families, all spouses of those who have Lyme disease? Just an umbrella question.

Well, I mean, obviously healing would be You know, I would love for there to be a cure for this, you know, for people to actually not have to walk such a long path. And, you know, there are some good things. You're strengthened within it. You understand what you're capable of. It inspires you to reach for more. But at the same time, I think we're the exception, and there's a lot of families that are just getting ripped apart and ruined because of this. And hopefully our story is going to end some of that. And help others avoid those same mistakes.

You want so many things for people. Yeah. You know, one of the ladies that listens to the show, she sent me a quote. Heather Ferrier, I think is how she says it. And she said, "A woman with her health has many dreams. A woman without her health has only one." And I'm like, "Oh, it's so true." Like, if you can't get that basic, if you can't sleep, for years, if you're in pain for years, like so much of life is off limits to you. And the brutal reality is that when you have an illness that spans years and decades, there's just not, there's like not a lot left over sometimes for people. So yeah, I mean, you want them to have their years back and you want them to have resources to afford good care. You want them to have their needs met. And one of the things that we're in the process of doing is getting like a Fight Hill Live Foundation set up set up. And I don't know exactly what that's going to look like, but like, just to relieve the burden of like some of the financial stuff, just to be able to relieve that for someone, that's— that gives them hope on such a deeper level when you can actually implement all the stuff you spent researching.

And the reality is, you know what, life throws you things that you didn't expect, you know. I mean, we can probably go out and find thousands of other podcasts talking about their rough situation, how they overcame. And really, I think for those of us out there starting the journey, you have to understand you are capable. You can do it. It is possible. You don't have to be ashamed. You can be encouraged and strengthened through this. And for people to understand that and not revert to the fear and say, I can't do this, and take a way out that's easier, whether that be suicide or just leaving or whatever the case is, you know, I mean, it is possible to choose otherwise. We all have choices, you know, and it's possible to choose otherwise. I think that is something that I wish all people out there could realize because there's gonna be so many voices, yours and yourselves included, that are going to tell you you can't do it.

Your own included.

Thank you. Your own included. And they're going to tell you you can't do it, but you have to understand that it is possible. You can. God's there for us. I mean, God uses these situations to bring us closer to Him. Not that He wills these on us, but He uses them to build a relationship with us. And really within that, I mean, like I said earlier, I have been angry at God, but through that I'm also stronger. Now. And I think my faith is bruised and battered, but at the same time it's strong, you know, it's stronger. It's a warrior who's— it's much like Rocky at the end of one of his fights. I think that's a good description, you know.

That's the Rocky music. Yeah, you want victory. I think that's what I want for families that are listening, that are searching. We want victory. And to come to that place where you can have victory personally, victory professionally, victory with your health, victory, you know, in all these areas. There's reasons people don't achieve that in their life. I mean, it's hard to have all those things, but there's also like so much freedom in that too, that I think for us, we're just willing to work differently than we would before. We want way more. And sometimes I feel like I want more because I lost those years. Like, I feel like there's this very dark 5 years out of all our years, this 5-year period that we're just coming out of. And I want that for everybody, like, in that sense of true victory, like being restored and, you know, having back all of life's possibilities. And it's just made us want to work, not work harder, but just have victory in all those areas because of the freedom that it comes with.

It's really big of you guys to think outside yourselves in these really challenging situations, and you've done that, and I just really wanted to say thanks. And I know there's so many other people out there that we've talked to, have heard your podcast, who have heard your story, and just in the midst of challenge like this, to want victory for somebody else That's a victory. So congratulations on reaching that, that level. That's inspiring, it's encouraging, and I think that's a great way to close today. So thanks for being willing to be on the show.

I was nervous.

Good job, Lyme fighters. Thanks for being with us today, and look for another episode soon.

All right. Wishing your doctors could communicate and come up with a cohesive plan specific to your medical needs and genetics? At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach, giving you the opportunity to heal. In addition to a commitment of providing radical love and care for their patients, they are strategically located in sunny Arizona because Arizona offers the best integrative medical laws in the country. Call today to speak with one of their patient care coordinators. You can find them online at Invita.com. Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters. Keep it up. We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Kay Lincoln? Kay. The medical information on LionVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay? Okay. LionVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, 'kay? 'Kay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln?

Got it.