057 The Lyme Solution with Dr. Ingels

So what are some of those mindsets that people need to embrace in order to heal both physically and emotionally?

You know, that's a great question, and I mentioned in the book, but you know, as I've been out lecturing about this, I realized that as I'm talking to more and more Lyme patients is that, you know, this is the one part of Lyme disease I think that really gets missed. We focus so much on the physical aspect of Lyme, maybe because it's what we feel most, but there's such a huge impact to your mental and emotional well-being that impacts your, I mean, your total overall health. You know, there's just so much research out there on what they now call psychoneural immunology, you know, how your brain and your body are connected.

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Welcome, welcome, welcome to today's episode with Dr. Darin Ingalls, author of one of the newest books out on Lyme disease called The Lyme Disease Solution. Dr. Ingalls offers a 5-step program that is based on his experience as both a patient and a doctor and offers a natural whole-body approach to overcoming Lyme disease. The Lyme Solution book offers a roadmap to recovery, puts control in your hands, and explains the benefits of an alkaline diet. And last but not least, he will address the topic of mold, which mimics Lyme more than any other condition. Dr. Ingalls, thank you so much for being here today.

Oh, thank you for having me, Sarah.

So before we get into healing and overcoming Lyme, tell us about your experience with Lyme disease personally. I know you have now treated thousands of patients who are fighting Lyme, but you yourself also contracted Lyme disease.

Yeah, that's correct. I actually contracted Lyme disease back in 2002, and the irony was it was 3 weeks before I was set to open my own practice. So, as I was gearing up for, you know, anyone who's owned a business knows just what a monumental task it is just to open your doors. So, I was actually a very kind of unusual case where I had classic Lyme disease. I had every sign and symptom you read in the medical textbooks. So, I had a 105 fever, I had a splitting headache, I had joint pain, I felt like my back was broken. And I had meningitis when I was in college, so I thought I had meningitis again. And I was actually on my way to the hospital when someone I was with had noticed that I had a big bullseye rash on the back of my leg. Well, it was behind me, I couldn't see it. And of course, you know, you can't feel these tick bites, you can't feel the rash. And once I saw the rash was there, I said, "Okay, well, I can skip the hospital. I know what I'm dealing with." And I walked to the outpatient clinic and I walked in and says, "I have Lyme disease." And they said, "Well, how do you know that?" And I showed them my leg and they're like, "Okay, yeah, you got Lyme disease." So, I went on doxycycline like most people do. And really, after 4 days of treatment, I was pretty much 100% better. All the symptoms I had were gone. And in retrospect, I can see, because I was opening my business, I was the doctor and the bookkeeper and the receptionist and really doing everything. So, I was working 10, 12-hour days. And after about 8 months of doing that, Now, it's the dead of winter in Connecticut. I started getting symptoms again. I said, "Come on, it's the dead of winter. This can't possibly be a new infection. There really aren't any ticks out in the wintertime." And, of course, none of us are outdoors anyway because it's so cold. So, I said, "You know what? It's fine. I went on doxy before, it did the trick. Let's go back on doxycycline." And, I went on for a month and it did nothing. And, I said, "Okay, let's change it up." And, I switched to azithromycin and it did nothing. And then, I started working with other Lyme docs in the area and trying combination antibiotics and every month changing it. And I really did it for about 8 or 9 months, but I didn't get better. In fact, I got a lot worse. And I lost, you know, 20, 25 pounds, and my gut was a wreck, and I just felt absolutely horrible. So I was fortunate that I had a handful of patients that I had been seeing that had actually seen a doctor in New York City, Dr. Zhong, and he's a Chinese medical doctor and herbalist. And so I went to see him, and he started me on some Chinese herbal formulas and did some acupuncture treatment. And really, after about maybe 3 or 4 weeks of on the herbs, I was 85% better. Wow. So, you know, I think that was my, uh, my kick in the pants that I kind of need to go back to my naturopathic roots and really, you know, look at what was I doing to my body that was kind of allowing this to, to happen. And I realized, you know, of course, long after the fact that I just really hadn't been taking care of myself the way I should. I wasn't sleeping well. I certainly wasn't eating very well. And of course, the stress of just having a new business I think all that really kind of undermined my immune system that just allowed, you know, the Lyme that was probably already there just to, you know, surface again and create more symptoms. So I started on with the Chinese herbs and then, you know, I really from there on out did a lot of other different things including various herbal protocols. I started with Dr. Zhong but then transitioned over to Dr. Cowden's and then I was treated, you know, homeopathically and really it was the homeopathy that got me completely over the hump. So it really took about 3 years from the time I relapsed to get to a point where I felt like I had my life back again. And I think that's very, you know, typical of so many of us that deal with Lyme. It's just, it's a long journey and we have to find that combination that works well for us. So, you know, I had my own initial experience and then again, I started just, you know, treating a lot of Lyme patients and started applying what I had done for myself to them and found that they were actually getting better faster. I'm like, gosh, I wish I'd known this, you know, when I first had Lyme. You know, that's really kind of what precipitated writing the book.

Wow, that is so awesome. I love hearing people's stories of how their upbringing and their education or careers all come together and create this very unique perspective. And that's what I felt like when I was looking over your book is it's not only your education, but your experience and who you are as a person that creates this just different look on you know, we're all looking at the same issues, but everyone has a little bit of a different take. And, and those provide that different take, that different look at the same illness provides a piece to someone's puzzle somewhere on their journey.

Oh, exactly. And maybe even a bit more ironic is that I was a microbiologist before I was a doctor. I actually used to do Lyme disease testing for a living. So, oh wow, I've kind of come full circle, I guess, in my life that, you know, having the background in infectious diseases and then of course being a doctor and then getting Lyme. I mean, I guess it all kind of came together, but it certainly provided a good background in being able to treat Lyme. I certainly— I understand Lyme testing, I think, better than perhaps most, having done, you know, thousands of these tests myself. And of course, having the both personal and clinical experience of dealing with Lyme disease, you know, that combination, you know, I guess I kind of feel like, you know, I was set up in a certain way that this was kind of my destiny because all these things kind of fell in place. So So in some ways I do feel a bit fortunate.

Wow. What do you recommend to people who are trying to get accurate testing based on your expertise in that area? What's your go-to testing at this point?

Yeah, my go-to testing at the moment is a combination. You know, there's really no one test. Well, I should guess I should backtrack. There is no test that tells you you have Lyme disease. I mean, that doesn't matter what lab you use. All lab tests help confirm is that you've had exposure to the organism. You know, if I tested everybody in Connecticut, bet my life that 85% of the people will have antibodies against Lyme. They don't all have Lyme disease. So just because you get bit by a tick that carries Lyme doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get Lyme disease. You know, if your immune system does what we want it to do, it should help, you know, eradicate it before it ever gets to be more systemic and cause those kind of issues. So, you know, Lyme is still a clinical diagnosis. It's still really based on your collection of symptoms, plus, you know, you got to rule out everything else that Lyme could be. But in saying that, I still do certain lab tests. So I use a lot of a lab out of New Jersey called Medical Diagnostics Lab. I think they do really fine testing and I like the fact too that they bill your insurance company. Hmm. Igenex is a great lab. You know, they've been the leader in Lyme testing forever. Their testing's fantastic. It's just for a lot of my patients, finances get to be an issue and you know, to do a full Lyme and co-infection panel, you know, it's $1,500, $1,800, which is a bit pricey for people.

Right.

Where I can use MDL and they bill your insurance, and it really doesn't cost you a dime. So that has been my, my go-to for all my Lyme patients. And then there's a new lab I've been working with that came out last year called Global Lyme Diagnostics, and I'm really keen on their— this lab. And in fact, I'm actually a recent advisor to their scientific advisory board because the guy that developed the test was a vaccinologist. He was actually developing a vaccine for dogs for Lyme disease, and and he took the information that he had gathered in trying to develop this vaccine and really turned it into a test. So he found that there's a common sequence in all the Borrelia species that gets targeted on this protein called OspA or outer surface protein A. And so what's cool about this test is that it's not only looking at Borrelia burgdorferi, which is what the standard Lyme test that you get through Quest or LabCorp or any of your conventional reference labs is looking at, this is now looking at all the different strains strains of Borrelia. So, you know, we know that almost half of the cases in California now are Borrelia miyamotoi. They're not Borrelia burgdorferi. So we're looking at the wrong thing. So I've had quite a few patients with this other test that have come up positive that even through IGeneX or MDL or some of these other labs came up negative. So, you know, MDL and Global Lyme right now are my two big labs. And I'm also a big fan of Armen Labs. I like the fact that they're not doing antibody testing. They're doing cytokine testing. Which is looking at really a completely different part of the immune system, and I think it's probably a better reflection of what's active. So if you're really trying to figure out if it's Lyme that's active that's causing your current symptoms, Armen can be really very helpful.

Wow, thank you. That's fantastic information. We get that question all the time, and IgeneX is our pretty standard answer, but that's a lot more specific. I'll have to look up Global Lyme Diagnostics. That's awesome.

Yeah.

So in every episode, we talk about how fighting is a mindset— fighting for your health, fighting for the life you once had, the life you need back, fighting for your other family members, because so many households have multiple people who are sick. And in your book, you refer to this as lifestyle management and self-care in regards to both your body and your mind. So what are some of those mindsets that people need to embrace in order to heal both physically and emotionally?

You know, that's a great question. And I mentioned in the book, but, you know, as I've been out lecturing about this, I realized, and as I'm talking to more and more Lyme patients, is that, you know, this is the one part of Lyme disease I think that really gets missed. We focus so much on the physical aspect of Lyme, maybe because it's what we feel most, but there's such a huge impact to your mental and emotional well-being. That impacts your, I mean, your total overall health. You know, there's just so much research out there on what they now call psychoneuroimmunology, you know, how your brain and your body are connected. And so, you know, for anyone who's dealing with any kind of chronic illness, it's just so easy to get in sort of this state of despair. And look, you know, I went through the same exact thing. I went through horrible depression. I've never been a depressed person my entire life. I was always a very happy-go-lucky guy. And I even got to the point where I went on antidepressants. I mean, oh my God, I'm a naturopath. I'm supposed to tell you Not to take medicine.

Against your religion.

But I mean, I had tried a lot of natural things that just weren't doing the trick. And I went on, fortunately I was, you know, I think again, very fortunate that I was on, I actually went on Wellbutrin and I was on for just a handful of months just to kind of get me through that time. But I just realized the impact of what Lyme had done to my brain and just what it had done to my overall just health. I just felt bad every day. And I think that that weighs on your psyche over time. So I just stress the importance of, you know, Having a good support system, and whether it's friends or family or a therapist or a group you're involved in, I know how it was for me. I mean, look, I had a good support system, but at some point, gosh, your friends and your family kind of get tired of hearing about it. They say, "Hey, Darren, how you doing today?" And you're like, "Great!" And you're thinking, "I feel horrible!" But nobody really wants to know. They're not asking me honestly, "How do you feel?" They're being nice, so I'm being nice back. And it's tough. It's really challenging. So, I realized, I think part of my own journey and what I've seen in a lot of other people is that trying to work on finding ways of having a positive attitude even when you feel terrible is important. And that might be that you pray. It might be that you meditate. It might be that you get involved in art or music or something that stimulates that part of your brain that brings you joy again. I think so many of us get to a point where we are restricted in the things that we used to love to do that we can no longer do for whatever reason that you say, "Oh gosh, I used to love—" I mean, I was an athlete my whole life. I used to love to play basketball. And I got to a point where I couldn't run, couldn't jump, couldn't do anything. And it was depressing. So I had to find other things. And ultimately, it was just stretching to start. And as I felt like my physical capability got better, I started doing martial arts. And 7 years after the fact, I got my black belt. So it took a long time to get to that point, but, you know, I found also something that I really, again, love doing that I could do. And it's just that, you know, you have to find those things that, that fill that void in your life that you feel like sometimes you're missing. But I just, I can't undermine, you know, how important it is that, you know, people really focus as much on their mental and emotional state of health than just the physical.

Yeah, I think it's so true. And I mean, I've been in remission for a number of years now, so, and haven't been in pain in 4 years. But I spent over a decade, um, I spent 7 solid years living with excruciating pain, but I had, you know, another 6 years before that just with unbelievable fatigue. And a big part of my journey has been undoing those learned behaviors. And I have been an athlete my whole life, but I couldn't even walk up the stairs for years, and it is literally ingrained. I can feel it at this point in my DNA. Don't move, don't move, don't move. Like, conserve every ounce of energy. Don't laugh, don't smile. And I've had to— I've been consciously undoing that every day for the last 5 years. But I cannot believe the amount of effort it has taken to even come to this place. But I'm still doing it. I'm still telling myself, like, it's okay. Like, we're not in crisis and, and this isn't going to be forever, right?

You know, that's a great point. I think when you're in the thick of the moment, it's so easy to get caught up and feeling terrible right now. Uh, in fact, I had a patient just the other day who was going through a horrible crisis, and she's like, this is the worst I felt in 3 years. And so we had to kind of tweak things a little bit, and I'm trying to remind her, I'm like, but it's transient. This is not going to stay with you forever. We just kind of have to get to that point. And it took, fortunately, a handful of days and she's now feeling a lot better. But we like to see this healing curve be this slow, steady, every day is just a little better than the day before. And gosh, I don't think I've ever seen that. Some days you feel really great and other days you feel horrible and the inconsistency is just a bit maddening. And those days that you feel great, of course you feel good and now you want to do everything that you haven't been able to do and you overextend yourself and then you pay for it the next 2 or 3 days. Days. So it really becomes this vicious cycle of, you know, trying to find that balance about, you know, doing what you can versus, again, overextending yourself and then paying for it for the next handful of days. And, you know, we're all just so uniquely individual, there's no right or wrong answer for anybody. It's just you have to figure out what works best for you. Yeah.

So speaking of what works best, um, I want to go into our next segment Um, and that's healing consists of choices. And I want to go over alkaline diet, herbal protocols, nutrients to boost your immune system, removing toxins, and then mold, because mold is such a huge issue. So we are going to get into that right after this commercial break.

For nearly two decades, Invita Medical Center has been leading the way with the latest in personalized treatment options. Designed for patients dealing with Lyme disease complex. At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach and the latest technology regarding treatment and testing at an unmatched radical love and care environment for their patients. Call to speak to one of the patient care coordinators today to learn why hundreds of patients choose Invita Medical Center each year. You can find them online at invita.com.

Hi guys, I want to let you know about a book I wrote called Little Bite, Big Trouble, and I'm going to read a review that recently came in. This is from Carolyn, and she says, thank you so much for writing your book. It has become the means by which I have explained Lyme to my 4-year-olds. They asked for it to be read as a bedtime story over and over again and love that the mama birdie does yoga and juicing like their mommy. I can't thank you enough for writing this book. It has helped my family so much. You can find it today at amazon.com, Little Bite, Big Trouble. We are back. And we are talking with Dr. Ingalls about healing consisting of choices. And he has talked about his own experience in having to choose different ways of operating in order to heal. And so we're going to get into the specifics of that Dr. Ingalls, let's start with the alkaline diet. And you lay out a 2-week food program. What are the benefits of that?

So the benefits of an alkaline diet is really to alter your cellular physiology. What we've learned in, in general biochemistry and physiology is that your cells function best in an alkaline state. And for those of us who really— those of you who really don't know what that is, is it's really talking about pH. And pH can go anywhere from being very acidic to very alkaline. And it just refers really, are you too acidic, too basic? And with the exception of the stomach, the bladder, and for women, the vaginal area, which are very acidic, and it's designed to be acidic to keep outside invaders from entering in, the rest of your body actually functions in a very alkaline state. So I think what happens over the course of time, you know, certainly chronic infection, chronic long-term antibiotics or even other medications, things in our food supply including chemicals and pesticides and so forth. You know, all of that can make your body very acidic, and the end product of being very acidic is that there's inflammation. So ultimately what an alkaline diet's about is a way of trying to help, you know, improve your cellular physiology and reduce inflammation. And I've tried various different diets with myself and with other Lyme patients, and, you know, they all have their pluses and minuses, but What I like about this and what I found is that it's sustainable. I know a lot of people go out there on a diet and, you know, most diets have an intention of, you know, losing weight or some other purpose, and they're really short-term things, where this is something that really becomes a lifestyle for people, and this is just the way you eat. And, you know, in a nutshell, what it boils down to is that you're really eating mostly a vegetarian diet, and we try and limit animal proteins to less than 20% of your total intake for the week. And what I think it really reflects is our true hunter-gatherer days. We didn't kill every day, so meat and animal protein wasn't available all the time. We got it when we could. And I think what happens when people say they're following a paleo diet is they tend to consume a lot of animal protein. And there is a risk when you eat a lot of animal protein and how it breaks down your body. It can actually be very damaging to your kidneys. So I have some people who come in saying they eat 2 pounds of beef a day, and I'm like, "Wow, that's a lot of beef." "But I'm paleo, I don't eat carbohydrates, so that's great." I'm like, "Well, no." Well, you know, your body does need some carbohydrate to function. And so an alkaline diet, again, is really a way of trying to, you know, balance your nutrients. You know, you certainly get a full complement of everything you need to not only survive but actually thrive well. And there's really just one part of that where I say, you know, these are foods that are very acid-forming in the body. This is probably what you should eliminate. And that really includes any kind of junk foods or processed foods. It includes dairy products, and it actually also includes things like coffee. You know, for me, that was horrible because I think a lot of us end up drinking coffee because we just need that adrenal kick. We're so depleted and tired all the time. But I found for myself that I would have a sip of coffee and my neuropathy would flare up within minutes. So, you know, people think that just having a little bit is okay, and again, it probably depends. But I tell people, when you first start this, really try and toe the line and stick to it, because even a little bit might be enough to flare your symptoms. And if you want to give your body every opportunity to heal, you know, why take that chance?

Yeah, it's interesting. I do spend a considerable amount of time each week within the Facebook groups posting and commenting, and that's people— I see people saying that all the time. Like, and I get it, everything else has been taken away from them— careers, professions, friends. Like, eating the food they want is one of the last things they can do. And yet I don't see people getting better unless they completely change their diet.

Yeah, it's just such a, you know, I think when we talk about diet, we can't talk about that without also talking about the gut. And of course, you know, the gut counts for 80% of your immune function. So most people I see with chronic Lyme at some point have had a gastrointestinal problem, and I think that's just reflective of how their immune system and their gut's functioning. So, you know, garbage in is garbage out, and if you're eating foods that are really not, you know, nutritive to your body and not healing to your body, you know, they're potentially poisonous to your body. And, you know, we don't think of it really in that way, but if you frame it in that way, it's like, yeah, if I— every time I eat a Ding Dong, you know, that's toxic to my body, that's undermining my immune system, that is doing nothing beneficial for me. And, you know, as we kind of come back talking about mindset and choices, you know, it's a choice. And, you know, you can choose to eat things that are nourishing and healing, or you can choose to eat things and drink things that are damaging. And, you know, everyone makes that choice. But, uh, for the people who do choose to, uh, commit to following this kind of diet, you know, many of the people I work with really do experience the benefits. Yeah.

So let's talk about your herbal protocols.

You know, again, you know, I was a guy who was on antibiotics. I went the conventional route, and I felt like it was killing me. And, you know, herbs are really what pulled me out of the weeds and got me feeling a lot better.

Now, did you overlap those or did you stop antibiotics and then start on those?

I was already off. Okay. Yeah, I was already off antibiotics. I had been off probably for a month or two before I saw Dr. Zhong. So I was really at that point on no treatment at all. But, you know, when you look at herbs as a whole, I think the one thing that gets overlooked is that they have very broad activity in the body. You know, herbs rarely just do one thing. And so when you look at what antibiotics are doing where they're really just designed to kill the bug, that's all they pretty much do. Where with herbs, you know, we've got herbs that can kill the bug, but they can also reduce inflammation and they can improve your circulation, they can improve your brain fog, and they can help you sleep. And, you know, I think herbs as a whole really kind of address the totality of everything that Lyme's doing to your body. So it's not just hyperfocused on kill the bug. You know, to be honest, I'm not sure we ever get rid of the organism completely anyway. I've just seen so many people who go years of being symptom-free and then something stressful happens in their life and they become symptomatic again. So, you know, it's kind of like, you know, getting chickenpox when you're 5 years old and then shingles at 55. It's the same virus that's staying in your body for 50 years. It's just when the immune system is under duress, it starts to tank and then these organisms become opportunistic. So, if we go in with the understanding that maybe we don't really completely eradicate Borrelia 100% from our body and it really is just about controlling it and keeping it at then, you know, I want to use things that are going to do that without having collateral damage to the rest of our gut. You know, antibiotics are not selective for the things we're trying to kill. They're going to kill all the things we don't want to kill. And we just have so much research coming out about the importance of our microbiome. So these are the bacteria that live in our gut, on our skin, in our lungs, in our nose. And as you start to, you know, wipe these guys out, it certainly alters so many aspects of our, our body. You know, we need these bugs. These bugs are here to protect us. You know, consider that we have 10 times more microbes in our body than cells. So we are literally 90% microbe and only 10% us. So that's got to tell you a lot about the importance of these microbes, that they have this very protective effect for our whole body. So the longer you're on antibiotics, you know, potentially the more you disrupt that microbiome And again, I don't even think we understand the full complications outside of having diarrhea and C. diff infections and some of these other things. You know, what is that really doing to our microbiome long-term? And can we ever repopulate it to a point to where it was before? I mean, when you look at animal studies, you know, you give a rat one dose of antibiotics, it can take up to 6 months to repopulate the rat gut back to normal. And that's with a single dose. Wow. What happens when you're on antibiotics for months or years on end? And, you know, I'm certainly not someone where I say, look, antibiotics should never be used. I think there are cases where antibiotics are very appropriate, and I've seen people who've gone on antibiotics and do extremely well. Great. But I just see so many more people who've been on antibiotics for years with no benefit, and again, their guts are a mess, their lungs are a mess, they just have so many side effects that at what point do you kind of draw a line in the sand and say, you know, we need to do something different. So, you know, the benefit of herbs really is that, you know, we're addressing a much broader scope of what Lyme is doing to the body with much less impact on the normal microbiome.

Hmm, which is so ideal.

Yeah, I think so.

It's so ideal, except that's not the way we practice medicine.

So, well, and I think it's interesting too, you know, you look at Dr. Eva Sapi at the University of New Haven, she's actually been studying Dr. Cowden, some his herbs. And, you know, now granted, these are test tube studies, so take it for what it's worth, but in vitro, we find that those herbs, A, she found they work better than doxycycline, and B, they actually address Lyme in all of its different forms where doxycycline really only works when Lyme's in its uncoiled, you know, corkscrew-shaped form. So you could argue that the herbs are actually even more beneficial than the antibiotic based on that research. So, you know, I have so many people when they come in and we're talking about treatment and I talk about herbs and I kind of get this eye roll like, "Well, I want real medicine. You know, I want antibiotics." I'm like, "But you need to understand that this comes with side effects and that these are the other beneficial effects of herbs." And now again, we're not just, you know, treating the bug, we're actually now addressing, you know, your inflammation and some of these other issues you've been having. And, you know, the nice thing with herbs too is you can mix and match for each person so you can really really, you know, tailored to the individual to give them what they need specifically. And, you know, we have kind of our starting, you know, collection of, you know, herbal formulas we use, but it's really very simple to, you know, just mix and match to find out what works best for you. Hmm, cool.

So let's get into nutrients.

Yeah, so nutrients, again, because they're feeding the body, they're feeding the immune system. We've got so much research on how these various nutrients impact, you know, different aspects of your immune system. And so we can use anything from, you know, vitamin A. You know, vitamin A helps increase something called secretory IgA, which is your first line of defense to the outside world. So that's basically boosting that outer shell that we have that protects us from outside invaders. You know, we can use things like beta-glucan. I love beta-glucans. I use a lot of it. It actually stimulates T cells, and T cells are the direct scavengers of your body. So when a T cell sees Lyme, it's just gonna munch it, eat it, and get rid of it without waiting for any kind of second messenger type system. So beta glucans are great. I use a lot of Andrographis. Andrographis is an herb that's been well studied, and in addition to being a good anti-Lyme herb, it also again helps boost the immune system, particularly these T cells. We've got lots of great research on mushroom extracts— reishi, shiitake, maitake. All these again help, you know, increase T cell activity. So we've just got so many different nutrients we can use, and again, I like them because they're safe, they're inexpensive, and they really can help, you know, start to turn the immune system around and, you know, give your body every opportunity to fight the infection on its own. I don't think a lot of people realize when you go on antibiotics, especially long-term, it actually suppresses your immune system. It stops your immune system from doing what we want it to do. You know, if you're just on a 5-day Z-pack, probably not so much, but once you start getting onto an antibiotic for weeks to months, you run that risk of suppressing your immune system. So, you know, again, I try to not get in a situation where we're just now countering the effect of the antibiotic. And, you know, we wanna give your immune system every opportunity to function the way it was designed to.

Hmm, that's awesome. I like how you said it munches the lime. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Do you have specific brands that you recommend?

Well, you know, we've started working with various companies and we make our own, our own brand of—

Oh, do you? Awesome. Oh, okay, good.

We've been working with various manufacturers. I mean, people interested, you know, they can visit our website for information about that. But I mean, there's a lot of really great companies. Now, my comment with supplements is always you get what you pay for, and you're not going to get good quality supplements at Costco and Walgreens. You know, they're going for the cheapest price point and not necessarily the highest quality. So by and large, you know, when you're looking at buying supplements and herbs, you really want to go with the professional companies. You know, many Many healthcare providers like naturopaths and chiropractors and functional medicine doctors usually carry supplements out of their office. You know, we have the opportunity of, you know, working with the professional companies, and these are companies that do third-party testing and they make sure there's no heavy metals or toxins or anything in it. Otherwise, you know, I say you can go to your local health food store. Many of them, you know, can also work with some of these professional companies where you can get a little better quality. I'm definitely not a fan of buying stuff on Amazon. I know the free 2-day, you know, Amazon Prime shipping My concern is that they don't really— their warehouses don't necessarily control the quality or they don't control the environment for the supplements and they don't monitor expiration date. And certainly something like probiotics that might need to be refrigerated, they're just sitting on a warehouse shelf. And so I've just seen so many patients that get stuff on Amazon and then come back and they're kind of disappointed. And we even have a problem now with people doing fake supplements on Amazon where they'll one company and then they'll put a professional company's label over the bottle. And it's just crazy that this is even a business, but apparently it is. So I'd say, I know it's the convenience and the price point seems great, but there is a potential issue with quality and you're better off working with a professional who knows the quality that you're getting. Because again, you definitely do get what you pay for.

Yeah, I think you summed it up right there in that one statement. Yeah. You get what you pay for.

I know, my poor mother, you know, she goes to Costco and she shows me their fish oil and, you know, this huge bottle and it's practically nothing because, you know, it's Costco. And actually a study came out where they were evaluating various brands and of course Costco fish oil was found to have high levels of lead and mercury. And I'm like, Mom, throw it in the trash. It's like, stop by my— you know, I do this for a living, I can help you get good supplements. But, you know, That's the way it goes. So I think, you know, I understand, you know, we're all trying to save a buck, I get that. But, you know, when you're talking about your health, I mean, again, you know, you don't necessarily go to a pharmacy if you know that there's a medication that's going to work for you that you're going to go with the generic necessarily because it's cheaper. I mean, if that's a good alternative, fine. But, you know, in some cases you want to go with the product you have that's been tried and tested and you know that works. And again, I'd rather go with what I know works, what I know what to expect. And if you start going with, you know, other brands that have have different, you know, chemical makeups, you know, and if you don't get the same result, I'm gonna be wondering, well, is it because it's not the right treatment? Or is it just because of the quality of the supplement? And then we're kind of both left scratching our heads. So if we can stick to using companies that are tried and true, A, we're gonna get better results, and B, we're gonna know if our treatment's really doing what we want it to do.

Awesome, that's great advice. Let's talk about removing toxins.

Well, you know, we're just bombarded with toxins every day. The average American gets exposed to over 80,000 chemicals chemicals a year. So, it's through your food, it's through your water, it's just in the air, it's everywhere you are. But I think there's so much we can do to control that. And again, this is about making choices that we stop using, you know, 409 and Tilex and Windex and all these potentially toxic chemicals in and around our home. And even with shampoos and personal care products and makeup, again, there are companies that make, you know, hypoallergenic organic, you know, low chemical stuff. And why not choose that? You know, all of this has an effect on adding to your body burden. And I think the more toxic we get, the greater potential we have to interfere again with normal cellular physiology. Our body just doesn't work the way it's supposed to when we get exposed to toxins. And so, you know, as much as you can control in your environment by, you know, personal care products, things used around the house, Things you use on lawn care. I'm not a fan of anyone using anything to spray their lawn. I know we all like having a nice pretty green grass, but these chemicals are terribly toxic. And if your children are out playing on the grass after spray or your pet's out there, there is a cumulative effect. And the half-life of a lot of these chemicals is 30, 40 years. So every time you put another application of these pesticides on your lawn, it just adds that load. Not to mention that these chemicals eventually get into your groundwater. Water. And with the best of filtering systems, at least through most municipalities, they don't filter out most of those chemicals. So it is getting in your drinking water. Wow. So again, we can't control everything, but we can control some of it. So control what you can. Use air filters in the home if you live in an area that's got bad air quality. Again, as much as we can make your home a safe haven, make your work a safe haven, I think it just, again, gives your immune system a better fighting chance.

Where do you tell people to start? Because I remember when I went out to treatment in 2013, they really walked me through the essence of your book in a lot of ways. It was like a 3-hour consultation and they're talking about the pans I'm using and the water we have at home and all this stuff. And I just remember being so overwhelmed thinking, oh my gosh, when does this end? Like, and it took a couple of years because financially that's where we were at. Like, it really took some time to implement everything that they were suggesting, and I never implemented everything, but I did what I could. Where do you tell people to start? Like, what are the biggest— what are the big go-to things? Do you start with personal care products, water, or is it just kind of do the best you can and keep moving forward?

Yeah, I mean, you got to do what's, what's, what's available, what you can. Again, you know, finances for most people become a limitation. The thing about the book that I wrote, The Lyme Solution, is that again, this is a step-by-step guide in which everybody can do that really is mindful of everybody's budget. So if someone is really kind of new to this process and they're like, you know, where do I start? You know, get the book, start there. It really walks you through. I mean, really step 1 is about gut health, and then, you know, step 2 we get into diet, step 3 is about herbs that people can take, step 4 walks you through how to look for toxins in the home, and I've got a lot of resources there about where to find information about what's not toxic. And then step 5 is really talking more about self-care and that kind of thing. So, you know, the way I've kind of laid it out is the way I really practically kind of do it with most of my patients. And, you know, there's always going to be limitations on certain aspects of it, but, you know, you just kind of have to, to find what works for you. And in reality, you know, often we're not really doing step 1 and then step 2. I mean, we're kind of doing them all simultaneously to what people can do, but, you know, the book is really just designed to be an easy way, you know, kind of dummy-free of, you know, here's what you can do if you're really completely clueless and have no idea where to start. And, you know, there's so many great online resources of where to find non-toxic stuff like, you know, the Environmental Working Group, ewg.org, has a great website where you can find non-toxic products. There's another one called safecosmetics.com where you can find obviously safe cosmetics that are free of parabens and all these chemicals that are potentially toxic. So again, I've got them listed in my book, but they're online as well. And there's just some really great resources to make, again, your environment safe. But I think people just have to be a bit realistic about how they're feeling, what they can do. You've gotta start somewhere. So even if you start at step 2 or step 3, I mean, that's fine. You can always backtrack. Again, it's not like 1 is, tied into the other. So even if you start with the herbs, you can still go back and work on your diet and so forth. So you just need to figure out where's an easy, easy place for you to start. Okay, great.

That's a great suggestion. So our final segment is living as the outcome, and we've touched on some things, and I really feel like living as the outcome is the same as what you're saying is basically step 5 in your book, which is is living normal, getting, getting exercise, becoming a human being again. So let's just talk about that. You have some things for sleep, and sleep is such a huge issue. So many people— I mean, that's been my longest lasting symptom. I just— I went to treatment 4 and a half years ago. I just got off a sleep med, my last and final medication, which was a sleep medication. And it's been brutal. I'm functioning more normal now, but it took about 3 months, and where I wasn't really sleeping. So that's a huge issue for people for a long time. Let's start with that one.

Yeah, sleep is just a monster. And I just— again, same thing with me. I mean, I was, uh, I was a decent sleeper prior to getting Lyme, and after Lyme I became a horrible sleeper. And I've seen this with many of my Lyme patients. There's clearly something with, you know, chronic infection that, that disrupts your sleep mechanism. So I'm not a big fan of sleep medication for a lot of reasons. I think, you know, when you look at some of the research on Ambien and things of that nature, is that yes, they get you to sleep, but you don't necessarily get that deep restful sleep. No, it's in that deep restful sleep where your body really repairs and restores itself. We also know that your peak sleep is really kind of between 9:00 PM and 3:00 AM. So as much of that that you miss— so all the poor night owls out there that really don't go to bed till after midnight, you've now missed over half of your peak peak sleep that you cannot make up elsewhere. So unless you're a shift worker where your, your occupation requires you to work overnight, it really is important that people get to bed early, you know, and get as much of that peak sleep. But we got a lot of natural products that work well for both helping fall asleep and staying asleep. So for people that really can't fall asleep, again, melatonin is a very safe product. Product. Again, there's tons of research. Melatonin is part of your hormone system, neuroendocrine system, that helps facilitate falling asleep. So you can use, you know, very low doses in many cases just to help your body get to fall asleep a little bit easier. And then for people who really can't stay asleep, again, we've got a lot of different nutrients and herbs. I mean, I'm a big fan of 5-HTP, which is 5-hydroxytryptophan. This is a precursor to serotonin, and serotonin is one of your brain chemicals that helps you stay sleep. So again, a little bit of 5-HTP before bedtime can sometimes be enough just to get you to get a deeper sleep, stay asleep. And for those people who say, I wake up 2, 3, 4 times in the night, that, that usually starts to dissipate. There's also an amino acid I like called glycine. Glycine is the most basic amino acid, and it actually binds to a part of your brain called the locus coeruleus, which nobody really cares about, but it's actually the— it's the— well, it's the, it's the conductor of the brain that kind of turns your brain on and off. And so when you stimulate that part of your brain, you're really helping shut off all those excitatory neurotransmitters that keep your brain awake. So the more that we can, you know, turn that aspect off and get your body to rest, relax, that's just gonna allow you to get into a deeper sleep. So again, glycine, you can use pretty high doses of that. It's actually got a sweet flavor to it, so even for kids who don't sleep well, we'll give them 3,000 milligrams of glycine at bedtime and no problem at all. There's no toxicity. Couldn't overdose on glycine if you wanted to. So that's a very safe, you know, nutrient. And probably the most recent thing I've been using, and recent really maybe being in the last 5 years or so, is I've been using a lot of CBD oil. I'm a big fan of CBD, and again, there's just so much good research on CBD oil. As of now, it's still legal in every state, and you can get it over the counter. It's not cheap, but I think again, for people who've had sleep problems, particularly if it's also compounded, that if you got anxiety issues, sleep disturbances, other, you know, sort of neuro-emotional things, sometimes CBD oil can really help balance that out. And again, it's very safe. I think the worst thing I've seen with it is that people feel a little tired or groggy the next day, and okay, fine, just back off your dose a little bit. And, you know, the company I work with makes it as a liquid, and so you can do drop doses of it and titrate it to really, again, what works for you. And for people who need the higher doses, they do make it in capsule form. But again, I think it's a good, safe easy thing for people to try. And the price, unfortunately, is still a little on the high end. And again, you definitely wanna know what company you're working with. We happen to use a company called CV Sciences that they provide a lot of the raw material for a lot of the research that's been done out there on CBD. So I like using the company that's actually been used to do the research. They make a good high-quality product. Their farm is in Holland and it's pretty much organic. So we don't have to worry about contaminants and pesticides Yeah, I mean, those are just a handful of things that I found, and again, I talk about a few other things in the book as well. Cool. So exercise, you know, exercise is something I think many Lyme patients, particularly if you're in the thick of it, that's probably the last thing on your mind. I know when I was in the throes of it, boy, yeah, getting off the couch seemed monumental, let alone do anything that involved something physical. So again, when I started, it was really just stretching. I literally plopped my rear end on the floor and I would just do very mild stretching and it didn't seem like anything, but it's still movement. And again, as my flexibility got a little better and my energy got a little better, then I started walking and eventually started doing more physical activity again. So, it didn't come fast, it didn't come easy, but I think it's about repetition. I mean, our bodies are designed to move. And I think when people think of exercise, they think about, "Well, I got to go to the gym and I got to lift weights and I got to get on the treadmill and I got to do this." I'm like, "No." I mean, exercise might be you walk around your living room, right? You know, it's just anything that's not involved in just, you know, sitting on the couch all day. And, you know, I've had patients that are in wheelchairs and they're obviously— their mobility is limited. Well, you know, you can still do stretching, you can still do other upper body exercises. There's still something you can do to get your blood moving. And that's what it's really all about, is that we're just trying to get more blood moving. That gets the lymph moving. You know, there's some evidence that, you know, Lyme likes to hang out in our lymph system, so let's get that cleared out. And that's also how we clear out a lot of toxins, plus you're bringing oxygen and nutrients to your tissue, and that's all good stuff. So, you know, movement is really the key. And I think we called it exercise in the book, but I really meant to say movement. And, you know, you do what you can, but do it consistently and do it often. You know, I think, you know, I went to the gym, you know, once a week for 20 minutes. Great, that's nice. But I think, you know, doing it 4 or 5 times a week for, you know, 10 minutes would better. And again, as your fitness level improves and you feel like you can do more, great, do it. But, uh, when you're first starting out and you're exhausted, you know, maybe just start with something as simple as stretching.

Yeah, and that's what I did. I started stretching. I couldn't— I could sit in a hot yoga class, but I couldn't do anything, so I'd just sit there and stretch. Yeah, but yeah, it definitely leads to bigger things. It's funny, I can tell— again, you know, I'm years into remission, but it's a mental battle for me on a different level than it used to be. Like, oh, I I need to exercise. And now it's like I have to convince myself that I'm healthy enough to exercise, like it's not going to come back to bite me. It's this huge mental battle.

I'm, I'm surprised. Yeah, well, you know, we, we just get conditioned for so long to not be able to do something that I think in many ways it's kind of like people who go through cancer treatment. You know, you're always waiting for the hammer to drop on the back end, and we're always looking over our shoulder even when we feel well, when's it going to flare again? When's it going to happen? And again, it's a bit of a mind jostle. You're just always looking over your shoulder and even including activity. So, I mean, my experience again is such as that when I started doing— I mean, when I was training for my black belt, I mean, I was working out 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and my body actually responded very well to that. So, I think it was actually very beneficial. Official at that point. So, yeah, I know how it's easy to be a bit concerned after the fact, but it really is very advantageous to, you know, get your body to move. Yeah.

So what do you feel like, as, as we conclude here, what do you feel like is— and I know your book is filled with nuggets of information— what's some of the big things that you've learned through your journey with Lyme? Um, in a nutshell, like, what's your favorite thing that you have learned through this experience? You talked about the power of herbs, which is huge, and that made a huge difference for me in my treatment when I started handling the immune system side of things with herbs and supplements.

Well, I think the biggest thing I learned from my own experience was really about self-care. You know, I think when you get caught up— well, because I'm a doctor, so, you know, my job is taking care of people, and it's so easy to get caught up in your work, get caught up in your family, get caught up in other to allow yourself to say it's okay to take care of yourself. And, you know, when I work especially with moms, I mean, they're the hardest because, you know, they're not just taking care of themselves, they're taking care of their kids and they're taking care of their husband and the family. And, you know, they're the go-to with everything in the household. And I think that additional pressure on moms is just even worse than someone like me, you know, at the time who just didn't have kids and those kind of issues to deal with. So it's just one of those things that's so easy to kind of ignore, but it's such an important part of healing that you just have to allow yourself to say, "Hey, you know what? I can't do something that's being asked of me. I can't go to something I probably want to go to because it's just not— I just can't do it." And so being able to say no, being able to dedicate that time that this is when I'm going to stretch, this is when I'm going to exercise, this is when I'm going to meditate, this is when I'm going to do whatever I need to to get well, that needs to be a priority. And I didn't learn that soon enough. My, my best advice out there for people who are going through it is, if you're not already doing that, do it, because you'll find that, you know, your healing will be exponentially faster when you finally are able to start doing that.

Wow, well said. I like that a lot. Dr. Ingalls, how do people get in touch with you? Oh, and one more question: do you guys do only in-office, or do you do Do you do Skype consultations as well?

Yeah, but we do do telemedicine consults. I mean, I always like to see people in the office at least once if at all possible, but I have some people for, you know, physical or monetary reasons where that's not, so that is possible. But we do like to try and see people at least once to get to see each other face to face. But if that's not possible, we, we do have other ways of doing it. Yeah.

Awesome. Okay, that's huge. That's going to be a great resource for people. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for being here and sharing all that you have learned. Um, I think that I, I really appreciate with each new book that comes out, I'm like, oh, thank God, because we need so many more voices saying this is real, this is happening, it's not easy to fix, and here's what we have to do to get through it. So I really appreciate your contribution to the Lyme community.

Oh, thank you, Sarah. And if people are interested, you know, they can visit our website, which is darreninglesnd.com, and we got a lot of information about Lyme and the book. And so if people want to know more, please, you know, check us out and, you know, we're here to help. Awesome.

Thank you. All right.

Thanks, Sarah.

Wishing your doctors could communicate and come up with a cohesive plan specific to your medical needs and genetics? At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach, giving you the opportunity to heal. In addition to a commitment of providing radical love and care for their patients, they are strategically located in sunny Arizona because Arizona offers the best integrative medical laws in the country. Call today to speak with one of their patient care coordinators. Coordinators. You can find them online at invita.com.

Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters.

Keep it up.

We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. As such.

Okay, Lincoln?

Okay. The medical information on LionVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay?

Okay.

LionVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional. Healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln? Got it.