063 Electro-Dermal Screening & Lyme Disease

Is it— do you find that the bulk of what you do is help people figure out what supplements are gonna— their body is gonna work best with? Is that the information that they walk away with that they start to implement?

No, not— some people will bring their supplements, but what we're really looking for is what is the problem. 'Cause a lot of people that come to an EDS technician are people that the doctors have said, nothing's wrong with you, or we can't tell what's wrong with you. You have fibromyalgia, you know, or something that is pretty random and you don't really know, you know, for real. And so there, people are trying to figure out what is really wrong with me, or they've been told you're crazy, nothing's wrong with you, go home. And they know, no, something is wrong with me.

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Lion Voice thanks Invita Medical for the continued support. Please reach them at 1-866-830-4576. Congratulations, Lyme fighter. Today you had the courage to open your eyes and face another day. Welcome to Lyme Voice. We're your hosts, Aaron and Sarah Sanchez. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Lyme into place. Each episode is designed to inspire, to educate, and to encourage you on your Lyme journey to wellness. Together, we We will fight together, we will heal, and together we will live.

Today we have with us Kathy O'Brien, who is the owner of Avenue Wellness, and she is here today to talk to us about electrodermal Greening. Kathy, thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me, Sarah.

So explain how you found EDS in your own journey with Lyme.

Uh, we had our oldest daughter started getting sick during her senior year mysteriously and had really been very healthy up to that point. And then all of a sudden she started losing weight and, um, and having a whole lot of pain on her left side. And she was a violin violinist. And so she couldn't even play the violin anymore because she was just so in such pain on her left side. And so we started taking her to doctors and, you know, first to her pediatrician and then to a neurologist and then to a gastro doctor because she wasn't eating and was losing weight or whatever, you know. So, yeah, so the only way we got— we never figured it out. And what we did is we started her on a thing called the Hallelujah Diet. And it's a— you can look it up. It's basically a vegetarian diet, very healthy diet. And that's really the only way we got her feeling better, 'cause we— I just don't— I went to a few doctors and they were kooky and they didn't have anything good to say. You know, they're like— the neurologist says, "Well, if you don't feel better in 3— when you come back in 3 weeks, I'm gonna put you on an antidepressant." And I thought— which basically was saying, "This is all in your brain." Yeah, and I just told my daughter, "Oh no, he's not." So then we went to the gastro doctor and nothing, no answers. So we finally— I just started searching for myself, just this diet, because they claim— and it really did help her. It got her back to like 80%, and that's how she survived. But she was doing well, and she went away to college, and there were other incidents and other weird health things that happened, but no huge deep dive. And then when she went to college, she just barely survived by eating well and going to bed at 10 o'clock. Not a normal college student that could stay out all night. She had to go to bed from so many college students.

They're like, okay, I can barely survive or hang on if I go to bed at 8 o'clock, sometimes 8 o'clock at night, if I have no social life, if I don't do anything, and I prep my food on the weekends. Like, that's—

yeah, yeah. Well, she was eating the dorm food or whatever, but she did know to eat well, and she— that's how she survived. And finally, another daughter started getting sick with hormonal issues. So that's when— and I I heard about an EDS technician, but at the time I didn't want to fork out the money, I guess. That's how dumb I was. But for my other, my other child, yeah, my other child, a couple years later in the summer got sick. I took her to a regular doctor and was extremely furious about what that doctor had to say in 90 seconds. You know, they diagnosed her in 90 seconds and said, let's put her on the pill. And I was like, what are you talking about? You know, why has this happened? And so I went to this EDS lady, and she was able to help my daughter very quickly. And so then that got me super interested. So when the older daughter came home at Christmas, then I had her. That's when we found the Lyme, and it wasn't quote unquote very bad yet. And so we were able to treat her with homeopathy, and she went back to school and got a lot better in like 3 or 4 months because technically it probably wasn't very bad, hadn't spread around a whole bunch yet. But interestingly enough, you know, when she— back then we didn't know to detox quite like we should have and all that. And so we just started the homeopathy and her whole left side was just like in excruciating pain. But she said, I'm so happy this was on my left side, which had been a problem area. Like I said, it was in pain and all that, is dying or something because it hurts like crazy, you know. And basically a Herx reaction. Anyway, so she got a lot better and then, you know, and then that's been, when was that? That would have been the spring of 2010. So that's been 8 years and basically that particular child has been up and down and up and down and had good times and really bad times, had to quit work for a year one time. And so then, yeah, so that I got really interested when the lady was able to find this and help my children. And so then I decided I really wanted to do this and God just made us able to get me the machine and the training training. And, you know, so, and then that's how basically we found it in my other two daughters.

And at the time, you guys are in Texas, and you have been— you were in Texas for a long time, right? That's where your kids grew up, where Lyme doesn't exist.

Oh yeah, yeah. But, you know, um, it does, uh, as we know. But they had grown up in New Mexico till the oldest was 11, and, um, and that's where you got it. But we went camping all the time. I camped all the time when I was a child. I mean, I lived in Colorado as a child, got bit by ticks all the time. It was just like normal, no big deal. And Grandpa would burn them off with a match and all that stuff. And so— and my husband grew up in Montana, and camping, fishing, who knows, you know, because we both test for it with the, with the EDS machines. And so, you know, I mean, and the people say, how did they get it? I don't know, they may have gotten it Only one of my children, I do remember, the middle daughter had a tick bite when she was about 3 in her groin area. We had been to my grandma's house in Oklahoma, and it was one of those teeny tiny ticks. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. But, you know, I just took it off and it hadn't really embedded itself, and she never got sick. She never got the, you know, any kind of rash or anything, and it just went out of my brain. So I don't know if that's when she got it or not, but, um, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, it doesn't.

Yeah, so that's, you know, that's kind of why I got really into not only EDS but just everything natural and trying, because I just felt like doctors do not— did not even want to have the answer. They just want to give you medicine. Um, yeah, and that made me mad because the medicine doesn't really help you in the long run anyway. And so then, you know, I got from— I mean, I had another— my youngest daughter has had terrible crises with Lyme disease and had to quit work for a whole year and all of that. And so several times of major up and downs. And some of that comes with not being in the home. They don't have a caregiver, so they're out working full-time and trying to pay rent and trying to eat, buy food and everything. Just stress, stress, stress, stress, stress. Stress makes you sick. And so, you know, um, yeah.

And so you're the third mom this week that I've talked to who has adult kids who are over the age of 18 who are trying to be adults and get through school and start careers. And it's interesting because all of them— kids are in and out of the house, kids are in and out of being able to be employed because of their health, because of fatigue because of cycles and stuff that they're going through. But the, um, I mean, and, and the kids are all suffering and fighting their own battles, but the moms who are now caring for these adult kids have their own separate battle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It's, uh, I mean, luckily I have not, um, ever really had a terrible episode with Lyme. I have— I mean, I remember when I was 38 living in New Mexico New Mexico, my knees were killing me when I would bend down at the cabinets, you know, as a young mother. And I was like, why are my knees hurting? I'm certainly not an athlete, you know, there was no reason for my knees to start hurting. And now I think back and think that was probably Lyme disease, you know, getting it because they love joints and they love the knees. And yeah, and then, you know, then I've just had hip issues, weird hip issues, and I am now 61, I will admit, and I have arthritis, you know, and some of that might be sort of genetic, um, but because, you know, my grandfather had arthritis. But, um, yeah, it's like, okay, I don't know, you know. And I'll—

I—

so, and I, I have treated myself for Lyme with homeopathy, and we'll do that again soon. Actually had some pretty weird brain stuff, you know, which— I mean, some of that, I think the brain stuff for me, it has to do with EMFs, you know, because we're just surrounded with them all the time. And I have these weird zappos in my brain sometimes that go— and I'm like, okay, that is not good. Yeah, I got an ear ringing, you know, I mean, all sorts of stuff. But so far no one's claimed me crazy yet, so I'm all right, I guess. But yeah.

Okay, give us, give us the 5-minute all-encompassing version of what electrodermal screening exactly is, because I've heard of it, it comes up, but I can't quite wrap my brain around what it does.

Okay, well, there are— first of all, there are very— a lot of different devices that use this concept, and mine is called the Discovery System. It's by Consolidated Wellness, and it's a way— we describe it like this— it's a way to basically test your nerve health. Using the meridians on your hands and feet. Meridian points are acupuncture points. It was discovered by acupuncturists that, you know, these points come to the end of your fingers, for instance, and they are corresponding to different organ systems. For instance, you know, the nervous system in general, or the organ point in general, or the lymphatic system in general. And so what we're looking for we're looking to see on our screen resistance on your nerve. Now the resistance is electrical resistance. So we are sending like a 5-volt voltage current through your system and the person holds a bar and I use a little metal stylus and there is an electrical current going through the computer, the program, I guess you would say. And so we're just testing each point and seeing if there's resistance. And then if there's resistance, say on the lymphatic point, for instance, it will show just general resistance. And then we go to different categories that we call xenobiotics. Xeno, X-E-N-O, means foreign in Greek, I believe. And the foreign life is what xenobiotics means. Okay, so we're looking for pathogens, and those are all programmed into the computer program. And so, you know, first we do— so say we found the lymphatic, the resistance on the lymphatic point, then we go back and test the lymphatic point for all a bunch of different categories, basic categories or general categories, I guess the right word, bacteria, viruses, parasites, etc. And we can also test for general metals and chemicals, you know, that sort of thing. So, and then once if we find that there are resistant bacteria is showing on that point, then we go to the specific pages that tell us what kind of bacteria. Now, of course, we don't have every bacteria in the world because there's billions. So there's, you know, several pages of it. We've got, you know, the main ones right now and— or whatever you want to say about that. There's, you know, probably, I don't know, 60 or something that you test. But so as you run that, each bacteria, then you will see which ones drop. Okay, and that's— we call that showing resistance. So, and then we can even go further with some of the bacteria and some of the viruses. You can go and go to pages that you can see, okay, how bad is that in the lymphatic system? For instance, the Lyme disease bacteria Borrelia, we can— we only have that one species, I guess is what you say, on our machine right now, but we can go test the lymphatic point and see, okay, how bad is it there? And then And, you know, there's, I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 or 20 different bacteria and viruses where we can go to that in depth. And the other thing on the machine that's keyed into the computer is a lot of the remedies. And so, say for instance, a person has resistance on— a fungal resistance. So then we go to the fungal remedies, and in our case, there's like 5 on program so we can see, okay, which remedy works best with this person, because everybody's different. So you can't just slam everybody with the same protocol. You test which one's gonna work for this person. And something that works this time, 3 to 6 months later when you recheck, that one may not be working anymore. And so you can switch to a different fungal remedy, for example. And so, yeah, so that is the basics of it. And then, you know, like parasites, of course there's a whole bunch of different parasites you can go through, but we mainly go go through the large categories of them. And because that one has like pages and pages, and you can— if you have to test for very specific parasites, but there's about 10, you know, specific categories like tapeworm or whatever that we test for. And then there's remedies that we go to, and we can see, okay, which remedy. The other thing with my machine is there's a metal plate that's in the midst of this electrical current, and that plate you can set things on it, and that frequency is picked up as it goes through your system. And so you can see, does that remedy work well for the person? So, um, for instance, a person can— or I can take an herb, herbal remedy off the shelf and set it on there and say, okay, is this going to work? And we can do dosage too, using a little glass container. You can put several pills in there and say, okay, because you know, some of these herbals, they might, they might say you're supposed to take 9 a day or something. So you can see, okay, is this person going to tolerate that.

And when you're saying herbals, are you meaning like DesBio herbals, or what herbals do you recommend?

Yeah, well, um, I am just saying— I'm just saying in general.

In general.

Okay, general. Yeah, like a person can bring their own. Um, I use certain products, and I really didn't want to mention their particular names, but because I don't know if they want me to. But, um, you know, so And a person can bring their own stuff, but I do have remedies that I use, and I have a test kit for certain companies that I can set on there and test and see, does that remedy work for them? Of course, you know, Consolidated Wellness, the company that makes this particular system, their remedies are in the system too, as are DesBio's and a couple other companies. And so you can— yeah, so the remedy is already in there, so you don't need it right there in your presence. The frequency is already in the computer program is what I'm trying to say.

So, so it's not like muscle testing in the sense of like, what does your body react to? It's, it's some of that, but it's really based more around like what's happening with your nerves.

Yes, it is based on, you know, the frequencies, electrical frequencies. Everything has electrical frequencies, you know, because every cell has negative and positive charges, right? But also inanimate objects, you know, like a rock or whatever. Everything has frequency. So each remedy has a frequency, and also your body are frequencies. And because we're very electric, you know, the body is very electric. And so, um, that's what you're picking up on. You're picking up on the frequencies of these different pathogens. Um, so yeah, and muscle testing, I'm not— I don't know enough about it. Yes, I've seen it done, but I don't know enough about it to even really do a comparison. I think EDS would probably be a lot more specific in the sense that you're actually sending an electrical current through someone's body, so it should be picking— I mean, it would be picking up for that person.

But in the sense of like, in comparison to bioresonance machine, the remedy comes through the machine, and this EDS the remedy doesn't come through the machine specifically. The rent— the machine tells you where you're having problems and then you treat homeopathically from that point forward, correct?

Yeah. Well, the remedy—

antibiotics or both or whatever, but it just guides you.

Yeah, the frequency for the remedy is in the machine. It's in the computer program.

Unless—

if it isn't, a bunch of them are, okay? Very many are, but if they aren't, then you set it on that plate and you can— it'll send that frequency through the system and through the person's, uh, body so that we can tell if their body likes that or not. I'll give you an example with vitamins. When I was— before I was an actual technician myself, I had gone to a lady and I took the vitamins I was taking, and then she had some pretty swanky doodah, very expensive vitamins at her office that— and we tried all three of the ones I brought. And then— and it was interesting because My body did not like some of the vitamins, and you could tell that my body liked the other vitamins, you know. And everybody's different, so you just never know. And, um, yeah, so that— I mean, that was interesting to me because it was like, okay, the expensive ones my body didn't even like. Hallelujah! So I didn't feel like I needed to buy those. But, um, you know, and I've had people bring me a product and say, you know, my friends want me to take this. And so we can test it and say, you know what, your body says no. And we can do that food too. I mean, the food sensitivity— there's a test in there too that for quite a few items. And so, you know, you can test a person, but that's really not in the normal, like, the first screening. I don't normally test for food sensitivities the first time, except maybe a few, you know, like the biggies, like dairy, gluten. Well, sugar's not any— ever good, so you just don't need to worry about that one. But those are things that a lot of times you want people to eliminate if, you know, if they're— if they're willing. And a lot of times you can tell if their body is not, you know, doing well with gluten. And so, and the different grains, it tests all the different grains too.

But so the remedy, the remedy is within the machine then?

Does that— if the frequency is coded into the computer program, and some of them, some of the remedies is what I mean, not some of the frequencies. The frequencies for particular remedies are in there. And so Then if you bring a remedy or you want to test something else, or I want to test something off my shelf, then I just take it and put it on that plate and it will send that frequency. Because like I said, everything has a frequency. Now it seems like crazy science, but I mean, not crazy science, seems like voodoo science really, or something.

But, you know, that's what I thought about muscle testing and bioresonance and all sorts of stuff at the beginning. And now I'm like, like, uh, it's the lesser of two evils when you start down this realm in the chronic illness areas.

Yeah, some, some devices are sending electrical frequencies into you to do stuff, you know, like the Rife machine. And, and that— those I'm not super familiar with. I just know that's not what I'm doing. I am just sending a 5-volt current to that on that particular meridian point and that's all. You know, we're looking for resistance. We're not sending something back in there that's going to kill any kind of pathogen or anything like that. You know, and your meridian points end at your toes, your fingers, and your teeth. And of course, we don't test your teeth, but that's something very important to keep in mind because if your teeth are bad and rotting, then your— a rotten tooth is is sending junk infection down your meridian line into the organs that it's associated with. And you can look online for a map of the teeth that shows, okay, this tooth goes here and this tooth goes there. Super interesting.

Really?

Yeah. So I always have a talk with people about dental health and we talk about, do you have metal, you know, mercury fillings? Do you have root canals? They're almost, you know, they have metal in them and da da da da. And just I'll talk about that too, but because your meridians are super important in there and you can be causing big problems in your whole body by having a rotten mouth.

For nearly 2 decades, Invita Medical Center has been leading the way with the latest in personalized treatment options designed for patients dealing with Lyme disease complex. At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach and the latest technology regarding treatment and testing at an unmatched radical love and care environment for their patients. Call to speak to one of the patient care coordinators today to learn why hundreds of patients choose Invita Medical Center each year. You can find them online at invita.com.

Hi guys, I want to let you know about a book I wrote called Little Bite, Big Trouble, and I'm going to read a review that recently came in. This is from Carolyn, and she says, thank you so much for writing your book. It has become the means by which I have explained Lyme to my 4-year-olds. They asked for it to be read as a bedtime story over and over again and love that the mama birdie does yoga and juicing like their mommy. I can't thank you enough for writing this book. It has helped my family so much. You can find it today at amazon.com, Little Bite, Big Trouble.

Hmm.

So give us a, give us a couple stories of people, of clients that you have who have come and how that shaped their journey. Is it— do you find that the bulk of what you do is help people figure out what supplements are gonna— their body is gonna work best with? Is that the information that they walk away with that they start to implement?

No, not— some people will bring their supplements, but what we're really looking for is what is the problem, because a lot of people that come to an EDS technician are people that the doctors have said nothing's wrong with you, or we can't tell what's wrong with you, you have fibromyalgia, you know, or something that is pretty random and you don't really know, you know, for real. And so there, people are trying to figure out what is really wrong with me, or they've been told you're crazy, nothing's wrong with you, go home. And they know, no, something is wrong.

So really, it's, it's more of a diet— or not more of, but it's really a diagnostic tool in some sense.

Well, it is FDA-approved as an investigative device only, so we cannot say that we have actually diagnosed anybody with anything. And, you know, but, you know, the The kind of people that come to an EDS technician are people who are desperate and they are fascinated, you know, to find out, okay, what is going on? They're fascinated with the process. So I didn't even know that was a category.

You can get approved as an investigative tool?

Apparently, yeah. Apparently, that's all it is. And, you know, this, this type of device is used all over the world, specifically in Europe Europe and in the Far East as a diagnostic tool in doctors' offices.

Yes, it is. Absolutely.

Yeah, our darling doctors do not want that, and, um, you know, don't, don't really have time to even, uh, probably investigate it at all. I have worked with specific doctors that found out about it and were like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, and it's extremely helpful, and it's so affordable.

That's the thing. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is for, you know, under $100 you can start having answers. Is that a right number, Kathy, under like an initial consultation?

Yeah, I, I, yeah, I usually only charge about $75 to $100. It takes about an hour and a half the first time. And, and some people charge a whole lot more than that. But, you know, my deal is I just want to try to be helpful to people. And I must admit, my husband has a good job, so I'm— I don't have to make money to pay for food or something. So I just— and if I do all the other— it's on my website, the consultation about your digestive health and all of that is less expensive than that, really. It's just by an hourly rate. But I mean, I think I'm worth a lot more than that. But you know, I just— I just know there's a lot of people out there that cannot find answers. Find the answer and they cannot afford the craziness of— yeah, and this is not a hobby though. I mean, this is definitely not my hobby. I really want to do this. It is a business.

So, but, and you guys have been battling alongside your kids. What do you think, as far as your emotional energy as a mom, what percentage of your emotional energy as a mom time over the last 10 years has been consumed with handling Lyme disease stuff with your kids?

Huh. Well, sometimes it has been probably at 80%, you know, but I would say probably the average would be like 40% or 50%. You know, there were times when, you know, when my oldest first got sick, I was just— I thought she was dying because, my gosh, it was just getting worse and worse every day and she was losing weight every week. I think we're going back to the doctor and she'd lost more weight and she wasn't fat in the first place. You know, I'm like, oh my gosh, she's melting away to nothing. That was super stressful spiritually, too, you know, and just begging God, okay, what is going on here? What is going on? And but yeah, I think a lot of energy and that's probably, you know, probably obviously the reason I got into all this health stuff. And, you know, it really interests me just that the body is so capable of healing itself. But, and you know, and I do believe that doctors are absolutely necessary. You got to have, you know, an allopathic doctor when you break your leg and all that stuff. And, um, you know, I have taken medication and they have, but in general I just feel like, yikes, you know. I, and that's something I just— this is— it kind of— it has consumed me sometimes, but like, yeah, of course, I don't know what to say percentage-wise, you know, right now. It's not too bad because everybody's doing sort of okay, and the sickest kid is living with me, which helps you not be mentally stressed because you've got your eyes on it, you know, eyes on the prize. It's like, okay, this is what we're buying for food, and this is, you know, um, not that I see her 24/7 because she does have a job. So anyway, but yeah, I guess a lot of energy.

Um, I think that I think that's one of the most fascinating things about Lyme— fascinating in a negative way— is how the longevity— we talk about all the time, you know, it, it's one thing to go through a crisis or something over a few months or a year. When you're 10 years in, you're playing an entirely different game emotionally. You're playing an entirely different game financially. You're playing a different game spiritually. And I, I always am like, oh, if it was— if it was— if you could just get rid of the pain. For me, the pain was so horrendous, and I'm like, okay, you get rid of the pain and the finances are just as horrendous, and then it's the, you know, the emotional battle that comes right behind that. And so it's just this— when I look at that, like, okay, you know, like you said, between 50 and 80% of your emotional energy, and then factor in financially? Like, I know your kids are adults and they're paying some of their own treatments and stuff, but even for you guys financially as a family, what does it cost you as a family to help care for 3 kids who have Lyme?

Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't really add it up, right? We just throw the money out the window. No. Yeah, I mean, I just don't even try not to think about that, but it is helpful that You know, I am a practitioner, so I do have some discounts, and so that has helped. And, um, you know, but, but it is— and we have had insurance. I mean, we're so blessed. Um, and really trying to think, um, you know, a lot of the care has been covered by insurance. Of course, not any of the supplements, not any of the homeopathy. But at least the care. And even here, you know, Whole Health Chicago, they take our insurance. And so, um, but you know, not for the supplements. At least we can get in to see a doctor that is functional medicine practitioner and a Lyme specialist. That's like super cool. So, um, you know, maybe that's one of the reasons we got moved here. One of the reasons, um, you know, yeah, that's huge. That's huge to this area. Yeah. And you know, the insurance will run out in a few years for this kid because she'll get too old, but maybe we can get her at least, you know, well on the way. And you know, I think a huge thing for people is, all these adults, they have to learn to manage it themselves to a certain extent, even though, you know, they may need to be home. But I can't eat for these people. I can't eat for my children. And I can't, you know, be very careful about my schedule and I can't go to bed for them, you know, whatever. I can't stop sleeping with my laptop, you know what I'm saying? These kids that, you know, have to have their phones and their laptops in bed with them and you're like, you know, honey, that's really not very good. But anyway, they have to learn to manage. It's just a journey of management. And I feel like people need to stop trying to say, okay, you know, I've got to get cured, I've got to get cured, and just say— because all of life is a journey of management, if you think about it. I mean, you know, if it's not one thing, it's going to be another.

What— yeah, true.

I mean, in life in general, you know, I have this friend named Trish who used to say, life is so daily. And I still say that to myself sometimes. I laugh and say, life is so daily, because every day you got to do all this stuff. And, um, so, you know, we're all managing, and some of us have to manage an illness, and, you You know, like you were saying earlier, sometimes crises are over quickly and Lyme disease isn't usually. And but, you know, you have to become skilled at managing. And once you get well enough that you don't have to have a caregiver, you have to be your own caregiver, which is— that's why, you know, you've got to eat right, you've got to go to bed, you know. And what happens with all of us is when we start feeling better, we're like, oh, just like when I lose 5 pounds, I'm like, whoa. I've lost 5 pounds. I start eating everything again and I gained the 5 pounds back. It's the same thing with, you know, you feel, you feel better and you're like, wow, I feel better, so now I can eat that, you know, donut breakfast again or whatever. And you're like, no, no, no, because, you know, with Lyme disease, you have got to keep yourself in pristine health, you know, because you never know when something— I mean, when something— if you let yourself go down, then it may come back. It may be back there bothering you again and causing great grief. And when actually, you know, you could have kept it moving along a little smoothly, you had done what you were supposed to. And, you know, it takes a couple— I think a couple downturns to learn that in your life. And, you know, my oldest daughter is really pretty good at that. You know, she understands sleep and she understands food. She's got to eat properly. And she, she also understands stress. For that child, stress freaks her out and makes her sick. You know, she's had several times when she was doing really quite well, and then some crisis happens— some friend dies, or what else— or she has a horrible boss that's like a crazy person. And she really did, you know, so— and that stressed her out. And stress— just that, that person, you know, some people are different, you know, that that's not as huge a deal as for other people, but But she knows stress is really not a good thing. But in the management thing, you know, I think a person should really keep a couple different spiral notebooks. You don't have to buy the $10 kind. Just buy you a spiral notebook. I have one friend that's had Lyme now for— known about it probably 12 years and dealt with it. And she keeps a spiral that she carries to every doctor and, you know, goes to multiple different blah, blah, blah practitioners and stuff and people like myself. And she just keeps a note of everything that she's done and dates it. So that— because, you know, you can't remember things. Even if you don't have Lyme disease, you can't remember things as you get older. And, you know, just keeping a notebook of what I've taken, what I did, what this doctor said, what happened at this appointment. And, you know, I've seen her spirals, and I know she must have several now because it's been quite a few years. And I would suggest, you know, do one that's a food, mood, poop journal all the time almost. Post, you know, until— I don't know, because you really need to remember what I'm eating and why do I feel so terrible today. You can look back and go, oh, I shouldn't have done that yesterday. I should not have eaten that. I know that's not— and not those little, little tweaks help you remember the next time you're fixing to eat something that you really shouldn't. You know, do I want to feel terrible? You know, so I mean, the journal helps you remember. And, um, you know what I put in my journal sometimes? If, like, I had tried this one supplement Boswellia complex, which is supposed to be great.

I still take that. Oh my gosh, every day.

It makes me feel horrible. I'm allergic to something. Yeah, I think— I'm almost sure because I started taking it and I started feeling just horrible, and then I completely took myself off of it and I felt a lot better. So, you know, just that, knowing, okay, and that's supposed to be good for everybody, but that's not true. You know, I test really bad for another herb called Andrographis. My body does not want that. My body does not want dandelion, and dandelion is supposed to be so excellent for your liver. So, you know, and you can tell. You start taking a supplement, and that's the reason you don't start 12 new ones the first day. But, you know, anyway, so a journal can help you realize, okay, you know, hey, I started taking that 3 days ago and I feel really bad. I'm gonna take it out of my supplements again and clean up for a few weeks and just try it again. And I'm gonna try the Boswellia again just to make sure that really is what was making me feel bad. And then another spiral, just spiritual stuff for your own spiritual notes, or if you're not, you know, into the whole God scene, then just encouraging things that you hear and/or poems that you like. I did that in high school. I kept this little poetry notebook that I still have, sweet little poems. But you know, whatever you can, whatever encourages you basically is the idea. And you know, if you're borrowing those library books, books for free, you're gonna have to take some notes of things that encouraged you. And so you can take notes in a little notebook and have that. And when you're feeling bummed, open it up and read it, you know.

As you're talking about management and all these like day-to-day daily decisions, when she was saying life is very daily, she said Trish said that, which is my mom. And she does say that a lot. Like, there's just a lot of— there's a lot of day-to-day in between all the fun events Robinson. Yeah, yikes, a lot of existing. Um, but Tony Robinson says, um, he says the biggest problem with people nowadays is that they don't think they have to grow themselves.

Yeah, interesting.

Yeah, when I heard him say that for the first time, I was like, yeah, because that was a huge learning curve for me in my own health journey, is like, why am I not getting better? I'm going to the doctor, I'm taking the medicine. Like, I did not know. I didn't know so much about gut, about detox, about diet, about any of it. I didn't understand the medical system.

Frankly, you don't want to know. And that's what makes you mad. You're like, dadgum, I don't want to know this. It's like when I was trying to teach my kid algebra. I remember in like when somebody was in 9th grade and I'm having to learn algebra. I'm yelling at my husband saying, "I don't want to know algebra. I learned it in high school. I don't want to know it again." And that's kind of what— I mean, there's no point kicking and screaming. And in that case, I was able to send that algebra person to someone else and finally get that learned. But, you know, in your health case, you've got to learn it. You've got to just give in and say, "Okay, I am going to take this journey." Because, you know, think about it. If you're in your 20s, you know, you may live another 80 years, who knows. Um, but you know, quite, quite a few years. And you've got to just decide, okay, I'm going to take the journey, I'm going to learn what I can. I can't be an expert in every area, but I am going to learn what I can to help myself and, you know, help my children or whatever, and help friends, help anybody that can, you know. Yeah. And you know, that's kind of why I got going on all of this is because I do I want to help my own children, but I want to help people. And I'm a teacher at heart, so anytime I learn something, I think everybody needs to know it, which drives everybody nuts. You know, they tell you, don't give your opinion unless you're asked. I'm like, are you kidding me? Not me.

Um, I am not a teacher, but I do that to everyone around me. I'm like, oh my gosh, I just discovered this amazing thing, it's gonna be amazing for you too. And all my siblings are like, oh my gosh. Some of them are amazing. They'll all admit some of them are amazing and just changed their lives. But yes, I do get excited about stuff and want people to know them as well. Kathy, thank you so much for being with us today. How do people get a hold of you? If they're in the Chicago area, they can actually come in and visit you and book a session.

Sure. And you can go on my website and there's a little click that you can click for a 30-minute phone consultation for free. So you can just call me and, you know, emails me, and then I call— contact you back and we can have a session of, um, just talking about that, whatever, you know, you need. Um, we never did get to gut health, Sarah, though. So do we want to—

I was gonna say yes, I, I was actually gonna say that, but because you can do gut health consultations over the phone.

That's exactly right.

Yes. And that's the bigger thing.

Yeah, to me that's a more important thing because, yeah, if there's people in this area, you know, kind of, uh, Chicago, so anybody, you know, within 50— or whatever you want. You know, I used to have people drive 2.5 hours to come see me. You can come see me for EDS, but all the gut health consultations can be done over the phone or through Skype. And, you know, you can scan your documents to me or email them— I mean, yeah, whatever, that's scanning, same thing— or snail mail things to me. And that's what I think is, you know, really more important is is, um, really is more important than EDS. Because now with people, I don't like to even start with EDS. I don't even tell people I do EDS at first. I tell them I'm a functional nutritionist that helps with your gut health, because, you know, that's where your immune system really is. Um, you know, uh, naturopaths say 80 to 85% is in your digestive tract, so you have to get that healthy. And so, you know, what I have people is they, you know, have an intake form that's very detailed. You know, your whole history is important. And then, you know, do a food, mood, and poop journal. And then we talk about, you know, I send people the Bristol stool chart so they can look at their poop. I know it's horrifying, but it's extremely important, you know. And you, you, you know, you need to know, you need to realize, you know, how important that is. And you need to look at it and see What color is it? Is it— is it, you know, the Bristol Stool Chart shows, you know, little blobs, little ploppy blobs. That's not good, you know. So I get people to, you know, look and say, okay, you know. And you can tell your gut health a lot, a very lot, from this journal that you keep. And plus, like I was saying earlier, the journal helps you understand certain things that are not making you feel good. Food too. You know, people like, oh, I get a headache every day. Well, a lot of— most of the time that is food that's giving you that headache. And so, um, but you know, I think the gut repair— because if you can get your gut repaired, then your gut's going to fight for you. And so, um, you know, and what I found with EDS is you can give people all that homeopathy and the herbs and all that stuff, but if their gut is not repaired, they're sick again in 3— you know, I They might be slightly better, but a lot of times, if they don't see it, a lot of people, you know, they won't want to come back for a while or something, and 6 months later they're all sick again. And they say, "Oh, that didn't work." Well, it really won't work unless you get your gut healthy, because you've got to have that healthy too, you know. And no matter what a Lyme person's out there doing right now, if they don't work on their gut and get it repaired and, you know, then I just feel like they have such a much better fighting chance if they'll get that repaired. Because the deal is, even if you eat the beautiful food, if your small intestine is not absorbing the nutrients from the food, or if you have leaky gut, which most people do nowadays— if you have had antibiotics, you definitely have leaky gut. So you've got to get that repaired. A lot of people have low stomach acid acid, and we've got to talk about that. And there's a way to help your body start making the acid more properly again, because that helps break up the food to digest the food. And then when it gets into your small intestine, if it's— you know, it has to be absorbed. If your body isn't absorbing the food, that's why you have no energy. I mean, you can eat all sorts of beautiful things and still feel terrible and have no energy because your body's really not even picking up the nutrients. Nutrients. People don't understand that. They're like, oh, I eat amazing. Well, that's nice, but there's, there's holes in your gut that are making it where you are not absorbing the food. Or maybe you're— it's leaky gut and you're absorbing the macronutrients through the lining of your gut and they're going into your blood system and your blood system saying, oh my gosh, we need antibodies, you know, and you know all about that autoimmune stuff. So yeah, I think it's super important with— to really heal the gut. So that's where I really like to help people. And that's where I feel like, you know, people listening to this, if you're not right near me in Illinois, that I could be very helpful to you, helping you evaluate your gut health and getting on the right track with gut issues.

And it's so huge. I mean, you're just— we get inundated with people who are like, oh, what about, you know, mostly how important is diet? And I'm like, so important.

Yeah, yeah, just like I said, and it is a way to treat for free, but the deal is you've got to have a healthy gut for your, your body to really pick up those nutrients. Because, um, yeah, and people don't understand that at all. They, they think, oh well, I'm eating well, but you know, you have to be— and you know, the whole, um, your colon holding your poop in there for 5 days or something, if you only poop once every 5 days, you are sending toxins back into your system. And people don't understand that, you know, they think that's normal because in America, you know, I think, I guess, you know, most people are just like, oh, that's normal every 4 days. But really, no, no, no, you're supposed to have a bowel movement 1 or 2 times a day. That clears out your colon. And if it sits in there for 4 days, then it is, um, those toxins are reabsorbing into your system. So it makes you even more toxic. So it's super important important to be getting that out of your system. And anyway, so it's just really— it's a big, big issue. And I think it's, you know, a huge issue for anybody to get healthier, but also especially for Lyme patients. And, and, you know, like, if a person is— I can work with a person long-distance on Lyme treatment eventually also, but quite a few things have to happen first before I'm willing to do that if you can't actually come see me. And some people have already been diagnosed, so they don't need to, you know, they don't need to find out, do I have Lyme? You know, they know because they've been diagnosed by a doctor. And, you know, anyway, I can work with those people also over the phone and Skype. I like to Skype because we get to see each other, and it just seems a little more personal. Yeah, rather than just phone. But okay, so how do people get in touch with you? Go to your website, and it is at AvenueWellness.wixsite.com, and that's spelled W-I-X-S-I-T-E dot com slash Avenue. And my business is called Avenue Wellness LLC. Do you want me to give my phone number? My— oh, my email. I'll do that. My email is AvenueWellness@gmail.com. So because I'm finding Avenues to Better Health.

Nice. Well, like Kathy mentioned earlier, you can call her and set up a free 20 to 30 minute consultation. And gut health is such a huge part of overall health, but really specifically for Lyme patients. So if you are ready to take that next step with your gut health, or you need to take the first step up, give her a call, and she is years down the road with this journey, so she's a great resource. Kathy, thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you, Sarah. It was great to talk to you today. Talk to you later. Bye-bye.

Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters! Keep it up. We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Okay, Lincoln? Okay. The medical information on LymeVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay?

Okay.

LymeVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln?

Got it.