086 Lyme Mind Conference

Become part of our, our makeup that can influence late-stage diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. We don't have any evidence yet that Lyme is playing a role in that, but our lab has done some research in Alzheimer's that shows that there is a connection between a herpes virus in HHV-6 and Alzheimer's. And HHV-6 is actually a very, very common herpes virus.

There's—

Welcome to Lion Voice. We are your hosts, Sarah and Aaron Sanchez. We created this show designed to inspire, educate, and encourage you on your path to wellness. This show's purpose is to help you put the puzzle pieces of Healing into place. Join us as we interview other warriors and discuss how fighting is a mindset, healing consists of choices, and living is the outcome.

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If you look on the right-hand side, you'll see a little, a little part where you can put in your donation one time, or if you want to sign up and become one of our monthly partners, go to lionvoice.com and help support us. Welcome to episode 86 of Lion Voice. Today I am joined with my beautiful wife Sarah.

Hello.

Today's episode is about— what is it about?

Well, today's episode is really cool. This is, um, an interview with Savvy Glow, who is the Director of Operations for the Institute of Next Generation Health, which is INGH, and she is working in Mount Sinai. She leads the organization and development of research programs and directs operational efforts supporting the entirety of INGH, including the LymeMind Network. They are in the process of doing their 4th annual conference, right?

4th annual.

And they are bringing together patients, researchers, and clinicians in a unique format. And Jessica Donaldson does this interview, and we just really enjoyed listening to it between her and Sabi, because they found when they first launched the first conference It was all researchers, right, and physicians, and she was saying like, we're just expecting to nerd out and learn stuff. These are all researchers, but they had the exact same experience we have heard from every other organization where they intended it to be a medical conference and what they found was patients were showing up. Yeah. Just wanting to learn and figure out how to move past it.

Literally wheeling themselves into these conferences.

Yeah, and Greg Kirk, who launched the TIK Fest concerts, he said the same thing, like people were coming up in their wheelchairs for help. And so this conference, it's in New York, but they're doing it online on Facebook October 19th, live, live on Facebook. The whole thing will be televised through Facebook Live, and they're really incorporating a lot of really neat aspects into their conference that bring together the research community and also the patient stories and advocates.

And those, those other things are specially designed for the patients, which is unusual for a conference. So usually, like you were just saying, they're usually made for the physicians, the researchers.

Yeah, and they, they have an art component, a music aspect. They have a booth where people can go in and tell their stories, right?

Really?

Those stories are listed on their web— on their website. If you look for Lime Mind on any of the social platforms, you can find, uh, their stories. And then look up limemind.org too, and that's their website. Tells a bunch about that information. Of course, those details will all be on our show notes. You can find them there. And then Sarah and I will be in attendance via Facebook. Yeah.

Yep.

Um, but if you can make it there you're one of the lucky ones because New York is fantastic this time of year. It really is beautiful. This is the best time to go to New York. I wish we could go, but if you can make it there and go see that, that'd be awesome. If not, join us. We'll be commenting and making, uh, making an effort just to see what's going on at this Lyme conference.

Enjoy the interview. Hi guys, I want to let you know about a book I wrote called Little Bite, Big Trouble, and I'm going to read a review that recently came in. This is from Carolyn, and she says, thank you so much for writing your book. It has become the means by which I have explained Lyme to my 4-year-olds. They asked for it to be read as a bedtime story over and over again and love that the mama birdie does yoga and juicing like their mommy. I can't thank you enough for writing this book. It has helped my family so much. You can find it today at Amazon.com, Little Bite, Big Trouble. For nearly two decades, Invita Medical Center has been leading the way with the latest in personalized treatment options designed for patients dealing with Lyme disease complex. At Invita Medical Center, they offer a team-style approach and the latest technology regarding treatment and testing at an unmatched radical love and care environment for their patients. Call to speak to one of the patient care coordinators today to learn why hundreds of patients choose Invita Medical Center each year. You can find them online at invita.com.

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Welcome to Lime Voice. This is Jessica Donaldson, and I'm here with Savvy Glow, part of the INGH team, and I'm so happy to have you on the show today. Welcome.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here as well.

Me too. So tell us a little bit about what brings you to the show today, a little bit about what LymeMind is.

Sure. So LymeMind is an initiative that is happening in New York City at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. We are 4 years into a program that was funded by Steven and Alex Cohen Foundation to bring together the, the scientists, the clinicians, and the researchers that have these large datasets of patient information, biological information, molecular information, and create a network and a repository for all of the Lyme data that exists in the world today.

That's pretty cool. It seems like y'all are really bringing together the patient side of this, where a lot of other conferences we've seen focus heavy on the science side and more speaking to the practitioner than actually applicable to Lyme patients. So tell us a little bit about how y'all niche in the patient information with the scientists and the researchers.

Yeah, so I'm just gonna make a quick distinction between our research program, which is also called LymeMind, and the conference that you bring up. And they're connected because 4 years ago when we started, we hosted our first-ever conference for Lyme disease, and it was meant to be— we were academic researchers, so we thought that we would host this conference and it would just be a bunch of nerdy scientists that would show up in the room. And instead, we had this wonderful joining of not just scientists and doctors, but also patients and their caregivers. And our eyes were just open to this incredible community of people who are, who are involved and informed and actively working towards better healthcare for themselves, which I think is just amazing. So, 4 years ago, we started this, and we've just been growing ever since as we learn more and more about patient journey and the patient experience. And we see how important it is for researchers to have access to that patient-centered experience because it helps guide the way that we do our research. When a data point is just some anonymous figure that isn't connected to a human, you lose sight of why what you're doing is so important.

That's absolutely beautiful that it got started with— it starts with the heart of it, and that's what all of this is about, is helping people. So why Lyme disease? Typically, people, when you champion some kind of disease or cause, you have some kind of connection to it. What is yours? Why, why Lyme disease?

I think that we are probably an enigma in the Lyme universe in that many of us don't have a deep personal connection to Lyme disease. We came at this as data scientists, and we came at this as researchers and clinicians who saw a problem that's happening in the world, and we wanted to do better. And why I think we've really attached to the emotional story of Lyme disease is because This is at the heart of what is wrong in healthcare today, like where healthcare is really failing. And Lyme disease is just one example of many of patients who aren't getting the care and who don't have access to the treatment that they need.

Right. It really is a failure of the system, like you said, to where especially chronic illness and those that have the diseases that aren't as well understood that you get lost through the cracks and you get this amazing community of people that are some of the strongest individuals I've ever met that can come together and affect real change for themselves and others.

Yeah.

Really, the conference is coming up on the 19th of October, correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay, and y'all are having this really cool part of the presentation where you're going to have patient stories. And tell me a little bit about that because I saw that and it really, really intrigued me.

So we built an interview booth last year and it is an interactive experience where patients get to sit down in this really cozy, very immersive environment and be asked a series of questions about their Lyme story and be able to communicate to the world what's happening with them. So the booth is going to be live at the event. People are going to be free to use it. We actually really hope that people do come in and share their story because this is— by collecting all of these stories, this is what's going to help inform the research and improve clinical care, which I think Lyme patients already know.

Right, right. So how do you— how are you sourcing your patient advocates or anything like— is there something that people can fill out to try to get involved and share their story? That's such a huge part part of healing that we've seen with LymeVoice and I've seen in my own life, that once patients are given their voice back, that healing can really start on another level. So where are y'all— is there anything people can check out to try to be a part of this?

So we have— we are active on Twitter. We're active on Instagram. We have partnered with the Project Lyme and Generation Lyme Teens, and they're out there collecting stories of young people and facing Lyme disease and living with it every day. They're very active in the, in the community space, and I think that they're just wonderful. At the Lyme event, please come. All you have to do is show up to the booth and you can put in your information and it'll start working for you. And other than that, we are, you know, We're free to engage with you on any of these social media platforms. If there are opportunities to share your story, we would love to. We'd love to get the word out there.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear all of those stories. I've said for years that I've got enough stories that we could do a whole book series on it with all of our stories. But I would love to be able to sit and hear that. Are y'all televising this in any— well, broadcasting this rather, in any way?

We are going to be Facebook Live during the event, and the stories that we've already collected do live on our website at limemind.org. So you can go and see, see the stories that we've already collected from the amazing Lyme warriors that are out there in the world.

That's really awesome. So one of the points on y'all's website is that y'all are going to discuss areas that are not frequently discussed within the Lyme community. So Can you give me a little tidbit on that? I'm really— you're sparking my curiosity a lot.

So we have a special topic section that is devoted to treating pregnant women, mothers, and children. This is a full hour. We have 3 world-renowned experts who treat and work with pregnant women every day, and this is an area of research in medicine that's been very, very tricky and somewhat controversial in Lyme disease, is is the idea of congenital Lyme. And so we have Sue Faber, who— she's a Canadian activist, and she spends— she has spent her career building awareness around congenital Lyme, and she'll be there to talk. Dr. Crystal Barnwell, who runs the Dario Group and works with rural and disadvantaged communities in Georgia, she'll be there to talk about her experience in treating pregnant women. She is also writing the guidelines for ILADS for how— what the clinical care model should be in treating pregnant women who are affected with Lyme disease. And then moderating that panel, we have Phyllis Bedford, who is an amazing activist. She's part of the Limelight Foundation out in Bay Area in California, and her foundation provides treatment grants for children, and so she knows quite a lot about what the struggles are in treating children.

So, so the care models, are you— are they formatting a way or a model to actually treat Lyme while women are pregnant and not to transfer it? That's incredible.

Yes. And even, I don't know, I don't know how much is being done in the whole, like, the congenital transference, but just being able to provide treatment modules for women who contract Lyme disease while they're pregnant or are facing chronic Lyme disease while pregnant, which I know this is a very— it's a complicated— it's a trying time for our lives at the best of situations, right? And now you have this body fighting off this complex infection while trying to grow another little human form. It's a complicated point in clinical care, and Dr. Barnwell is amazing, and I'm very excited to see her speak.

That's really interesting. It is a part of Lyme that is overlooked, the congenital, and the whole— it hasn't been studied as much. There's not as much information for women and their husbands or their partners to— lovely New York horn.

I know. Welcome to Manhattan.

It's perfectly fine. Our other interview is in New York too, so don't worry about it. Y'all are doing some big things for Lyme in New York. Right now. Y'all really are. There's a— it's really interesting to me that you're one of the first faces that I've spoken with that doesn't have a connect— a personal connection to Lyme disease. So it's really— it's moving to me as someone that's lived with this for over a decade to see people that haven't had their lives turned upside down and see the need and have the compassion and the drive to try to do something about it. And that's really I hope that our listeners really hear that and pause for it on a moment to know that it's not just other Lymeys out there fighting for us, that there are these other people with these great hearts and brilliant minds that are working together to try to get our voices heard and get help for us in the now. So what kind of research— I know there's— make the distinction again. There's a conference, which is Lyme Minds, and then there is a research facility at Mount Sinai, correct?

Yes, that's right.

Okay. So what research is coming out of Mount Sinai, the Mount Sinai kind of Lyme think tank, so to say, that patients could look forward to hearing about pretty soon to kind of implement on our daily lives?

So we've been doing a lot of work with Johns Hopkins. There are a couple of researchers there, John Alcott and Mark Celosky, who have this long-running clinical research trial where they are bringing patients patients in at all stages of having Lyme disease, from being first contracted to having late-stage post-treatment symptoms. And we've been taking their genetic samples. We've been sequencing them and building molecular network models to understand what the distinction is between patients who contract Lyme disease Lyme disease and are cured with the first round of antibiotics and the patients who seem to have symptoms that stick around. It's the post-treatment Lyme disease crowd. And we're looking to see if there's a way that we can phenotype and understand what one patient group looks like versus the other and maybe understand why there are those people who contract Lyme disease and don't get better, which is a very complicated problem.

Yeah, it really is. I've wondered for a long time if there's something in our genetics that make us predisposed to either the spirochetes being able to burrow deeper into our tissue and we're not able to get rid of it, if it's a detox issue, if it's something with your lymphatic system or what. There's got to be something that's different between me and, say, my mom's friend, who she actually this summer had a bullseye rash. Sent her to the doctor, she had the typical course of antibiotics and she's fine. Now thankfully she caught it early. I know that plays a big role in it is how long it's gone untreated, which it would with any disease. You allow any disease to fester and it's gonna be twice as complicated, 10 times more to treat. Ha, the horn covered my cough, that was perfect. I saw it and then I'll bring it up.

You're a real pro. It's working for you, it's working for you.

I love it. If I wasn't such a country girl, you'd see me out there. I don't think I could survive. I really don't. I'm so country. It's— I mean, it's probably obvious in the accent.

Yeah. Well, to continue on with what you were saying, there are very clear reasons why our bodies respond differently to one virus exposure, one bacteria exposure, one, you know, any pathogen. And Genetics plays a role. Our immune response, which is sometimes driven by genetics but also driven by the exposures that we've had at other times in our lives, right? And this is, this is what we're looking into. Are there, are there immune exposures that have happened at, at earlier stages in life that seem to predict a prolonged immune response to, to the Lyme bacteria, to the Borrelia bacterium that keep these symptoms lasting longer. And I think that that's a really fascinating field of study right now, is trying to understand what the immune-mediated reactions are or factors are that lead to PTLDS and chronic Lyme. We have Dr. Bill Robinson, who is a researcher at at Stanford. He's an immunologist. He's going to be coming and giving a talk about some of the care— the immune characterization that he's done in Lyme patients. And I think that that's going to be a very interesting talk. I saw him speak a couple of weeks ago and it was really, really cool.

I'm such a science nerd, I'll end up looking up all of them and have all of their videos watched by the time the conference rolls around. I love to see how the different minds are working on this and the different perspectives that are being brought in. Is there anything where Lyme leads to a certain disease or a certain disease leads to the worsening and the chronic development of Lyme? Is there anything along those lines? There's been a lot of whispers about Lyme leads to— I mean, can MS, dementia, Alzheimer's, cancers, things like that. That's kind of just been hush-hush whispers among the conspiracy theories in line.

Sure. Yeah, we don't have any, we don't have any direct evidence yet, but we do know that viruses and bacteria and the exposures that we have throughout our life do stay with us and become part of our, our makeup that can influence late-stage diseases like Parkinson's Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. We don't have any evidence yet that Lyme is playing a role in that, but our lab has done some research in Alzheimer's that shows that there is a connection between a herpes virus, HHV-6, and Alzheimer's. And HHV-6 is actually a very, very common herpes virus. There's hundreds of viral strains of herpes, not just the ones that we think of. And this particular virus is most commonly transmitted in childhood, and it just causes a little red rash, and most children get it. And here we see in Alzheimer's brains that this virus has lasted and it's stuck around. And we don't know if there's necessarily a mechanism of action that's influencing this— that this herpes virus is influencing the brain and causing Alzheimer's, or if it's just in the brain and we're seeing it.

Right. That it's so common that it's there.

Yeah, exactly. So these are the research questions that we're asking. So I don't think it's such a conspiracy theory to be asking these questions. The only thing that I caution is to, before jumping to conclusions, is to wait and allow the science to collect the data and to generate valid and strong hypotheses.

Yeah, I totally agree with you that we need to give Lyme, it's not that it's a new disease, but it's newly reaching epidemic and pandemic levels where the scientific research is starting to see the problem. And so we're several years behind on research. We're going to have to give those intellectual brains of our world time to catch up to what's happened.

We're just gonna have to. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely right. And I think that the Lyme community, the Lyme community of researchers feels the same way. We have, we have a panel at the start of the afternoon on the 19th that is making connections across other diseases, and we have a person who was with the CDC during the HIV outbreak, Dr. Alan Greenberg. We have a researcher who works in tuberculosis, and we have another researcher who works in Alzheimer's, and we're going to be asking them questions about these public health outbreaks, these public health initiatives. What can Lyme— what can Lyme be doing better? Not necessarily just in research, but in funding, in awareness. And it's really interesting. I was having a conversation with Dr. Greenberg. He said that Lyme disease and HIV reached the public awareness around the same time, roughly like the early '80s. Lyme disease, and HIV made these tremendous strides really, really fast to bring awareness. Now, granted, this is a completely different class of diseases and the implications of it are much stronger, but it reached the awareness of researchers at roughly the same time, and yet Lyme disease, in terms of funding, in terms of active research, in terms of education programs is behind the times. And you're right, this is only now just being talked about at the global level that needs to happen.

It's interesting that you bring up HIV. I actually have a book, and I can't think of the name of it right now, that I've just ordered. But it's all about the HIV movement and what you can learn from that movement. Because I work with another nonprofit, Lyme Warrior, and we've been— trying to research what they did. So just the awareness level they were able to bring so quickly and rally the entire base, no matter what the field of thought, we'll say, is on how we got this, why it's here, any of that, or even how to treat it, just unite on the disease front and leave all of the other, you know, quid pro quos out of it and just get the awareness up so that the government sees that it's an issue, puts more money into funding so that scientists and think tanks can actually do the research that we need desperately in this community. We really do.

I think that what we're beginning to learn with Lyme disease and with these tick-borne diseases is that the speciation of the bacteria is— drives a lot of the clinical manifestation and a lot of the change. And so what what Lyme disease looks like in Europe is very different than what it looks like in the Northeast of the U.S. And what happens in the Northeast of the U.S. is also different than what manifests maybe in California or in Colorado. And so understanding these different bacteria are such an important part and also part of what has complicated the process of understanding. This disease.

It's such a complicated disease. I mean, on every level it is, and it's going to take that much time. I mean, it's going to take more time to figure it out. It's not clear-cut and easy to— when you have a disease that can attack every system of the body, you're not gonna figure it out overnight. You're just not. And to— and that affects people so differently, like you said, to have the same disease affect someone differently in Europe as opposed to Texas Texas as opposed to New York as opposed to someone like me in Mississippi. It's absolutely mind-boggling for— no wonder doctors and scientists are scratching their heads going, "What in the heck is going on? I've got 20 patients and 300 different symptoms. What is happening?" It's true.

It's very, very true.

So another part of the conference y'all have coming up that I think is really, really cool with my hippie side is the art and music side y'all are going to showcase. So tell us a little bit about that.

Oh, thank you for bringing that up. I'm also very excited about that. This is part of the giving voice to the patient community, and I think that there is such a human, such a human reaction to crisis and to trauma to want to create and to, to express that in a, in a soulful way. It gives context to the experience and it helps the the human brain and the soul kind of start to heal. And we wanted to showcase that tremendous spirit that exists in the Lyme warrior community, and we wanted to, to bring it to light and, and really give it a stage. So I'm very excited.

I'm really excited about it. I think that it'll be really interesting. I know that myself, through this, I've always been an artsy and creative person, just thought that way and had that drive to create. But when I came out of remission with this, the drive to create something, I didn't care what it was. I just needed to make something. And it helped me so much on that healing process. It was almost a meditative state that you get in when you start working with something like that. And you're able to process all of those deep, dark feelings and get them out and have a visual representation where it's almost, OK, I just emotionally vomited all over this. Now I'm okay. I'm better now.

Yeah.

So it's really— so y'all are doing art. Um, what kind of art? I know that there's going to be a musical guest, so— but what visual arts as well are y'all—

we have, um, we have a series of 9 painters who are bringing, um, 2 to 3 different pieces of, of their work showcasing their struggle with Lyme disease. So This is— so you're a nerd and you're a hippie nerd.

I'm a nerd too, I'm good.

I'm a hippie nerd too in a lot of ways. For me, what I'm so excited about is we're going to have the artists, so the visual artists, the painters, these beautiful pieces of art showcased right next to the scientific posters. This is still a scientific event.

I love that.

I think that this, I think this brings together the entire universe that's happening in this field. And I just— it just makes my heart so happy to be able to do this.

It really gives me a lot of hope for it.

For—

I'm going to try not to get choked up because you don't see this often. Like, you really don't. And I really hope that this episode touches the heart of the Lyme community because If you asked the Lyme community what they need and if it could be packaged into just one sentence, it would be to be seen and to be heard. It really would. And to be seen and heard not just by our fellow people in the fight, not just by our friends and family, but by people that can actually change this for us, by people, by doctors and scientists and researchers that can and And people like the Cohen Foundation, I'm actually a grant writer, so I've researched them significantly. They are a big supporter within the Lyme world. And to have all of those people coming together, it's just, it gives hope where I didn't expect. I honestly expected you to be like, yeah, my mom had Lyme disease or my sister or something like that. So it kind of threw me off because you don't, you don't get this represented. I mean, this is so just soothing on a deep spiritual level for me personally that I hope that everybody else hears this too. To be able to show the patient side of it, and which is like the nitty-gritty, the emotional side of it, the heart side, the real impact with the juxtaposition of the scientific and the research and the practitioners is absolutely a beautiful thing. I mean, you couldn't ask for something more, so I really hope y'all do this for eons come, and I hope I get to make it to it one day.

Like, we'd love to have you.

Super cool.

Yeah, thank you.

I'm—

I honestly just feel blessed to be able to get to do this work. You know, we, we go through our lives and we don't always know if we can— if we can make an impact, if we can make a difference, if we can make a change, and And in so many ways, Lyme has become a passion project of mine because I know that through these endeavors, I'm helping. And I really— I want to help. I want to make the world a better place. So thank you guys. I want to thank everybody that I've met in the Lyme disease space. I have met people who truly are connected to my soul. Like Lindsay Keys is a documentarian. She's working on the Tick Trials Project, which is going to be an amazing documentary. She is— she is a soul sister of mine. I don't know what universe we met in, but I am so grateful to know people like her. And, and you mentioned the Coens, and I think that it is so tremendous to to acknowledge the gift that Alex has given to the world. In her fight with Lyme disease, she could have been— she could have just been selfish. She could have, you know, gone through it all and, and just, you know, shrugged her shoulders and just like, this is it, okay, this is all, this is all I can do right now. Instead, she created this incredible foundation. They have given more money to research, to clinicians, to the Lyme community than any other organization in, in this country. The NIH hasn't funded half of what they funded.

Oh, I can attest to that as a grant writer. I mean, my goodness, I've seen them. They're on the top of my list coming up.

Yeah.

So, but the things they've done is amazing. It really is. And in a field like you said, the NIH isn't sending the money into it, the government grants. I've worked with other nonprofits before, and the government funding was out of this world for it. Lyme disease, it's not the case. It's just not yet. Yet. It will get there one day.

We're working on it. There actually is going to be a member of the NIH at our event this year getting to see all of the incredible research that's happening, and this is, this is a person who's going to be sitting on a committee that helps generate funding for tick-borne diseases. So I think that The world is changing and it's getting better year by year. I can see it. I'm 4 years into this program and I can see each year how much, how much things are moving and improving. This community doesn't look the way it did 10 years ago. No, not at all. I think that's what should give everyone hope. That to me gives me hope. Because we have— we also at the event is we have a staffer from Senator Collins' office up in Maine who helped draft the legislation for the Tick Act. And this is an amazing piece of legislation that is working to bring awareness to all of the states that are endemic to Lyme disease and, and bring awareness to the communities of people that are suffering. And this is also going to lead to additional funding, additional federal resources that will hopefully help us fight this endemic.

It always comes back to the funding. It always does. It does. So how do you think Lyme disease is going to be viewed in the future? Like, say we're 2040, what do you think looking back is going to be the consensus on Lyme disease?

Hmm, that is probably one of the best questions I've ever been asked.

Well, awesome.

Yes. Okay, let me think. 2040. I think that we're going to look at Lyme disease similar to how we look at a cold virus or the flu virus, we're going to see the, the variability of and the speciation of the bacteria. We're going to understand that that variability leads to different clinical manifestations and different versions of the illness, and we will also understand how a person's unique and complex complex genome and immunology lead to their own response to that very specific bacteria. And so I'm really hoping— this is why the conference is— we call it LymeMIND. That's actually the affectionate name. The real name is Lyme Disease in the Era of Precision Medicine. And I think that precision medicine is actually what Lyme disease needs right now. The idea that it's not a population-level response that we need to be paying attention to, it's the individual response and understanding how to work with the individual and provide the best care and treatment to fighting the disease.

I totally agree with you. I think that seeing the rise on the kind of biohacking that's going on within the medical world where you're seeing more gene sequencing, you're seeing more of those prototypes come along where you can actually quantify your DNA and all your cellular level.

I know I'm mind-braining there for a second for the word, but you're doing so well.

Um, but I think that the rise of that is what's going to lead to curing diseases that are so individualized-based, even branching out to other diseases such as cancers and things like that, that it's something that not all cancers affect everybody the same way. And And I hope and light every candle and say every prayer that one day, 2040, that it is something as simple as like getting the flu. You know, "I was sick a few days. I'm good now." That would be just ideal, 100%.

Cancer is a relatively easy illness. I say that totally tongue-in-cheek because I'm sure that there are like people fighting cancer who are just like, "What are you talking about?" But I've had both, and honestly, I'd prefer you to give me cancer again than Lyme.

And I know that that will go over like a lead balloon, but let me explain.

Biologically, though, biologically, it is a— it is a genetic mutation, and we can understand that. I mean, the way that that genetic mutation then interacts with the system and causes a lot of downstream effects, that is what becomes complicated. And that is what makes cancer hard to treat. But cancer in and of itself is a mutation, right? Lyme disease is this added variable into the system that is different each time around and causes different reactions for each person. So it's, it's a little bit— it's a more complex, more complex system.

It's a really slippery disease to try to nail down. It really is. I mean, I think anybody that's lived through it can attest to that, that this is not something that— you probably didn't come by the diagnosis easy unless you were one of the lucky ones to have a bullseye. And it's just this long drawn-out process where so many of us kind of get lost in the waters. And providing the connection with the patients and things like that is just very commendable, and I'm so, so excited. Really would love to get to the conference one year. It's a pretty long trek for me personally, but I'm pretty excited about it and excited about what y'all are doing and see what comes out of the research. I'm really, really thrilled about that. Is there anything else that you want to lay out to the audience that you're excited about, looking forward to at the conference or research?

I think that this year's event is going to be really spectacular because it's all focused on where we are now and where we're moving towards. It's about the present and it's about the future. And I know that it's really important to contextualize the conversation on what's happened in the past with Lyme disease. Because there's a lot of trauma and a lot of pain there.

Right.

But there are so many, there are so many positive things happening in this space. We have a member of the CDC who is joining us. She's new, so she's not, she can't talk about what the CDC did in the past.

Everybody lay off, don't have those hardball questions. She's new, she's new.

She's new, so let's be nice to her.

We want her on our team.

And she is, and she really is on our team, and she really is. And this is, this is just another example of, of the strides that this field is making, in no, in no short part to people like you and people like your listeners who are out there and making a difference in the world and making their voices heard.

Yeah, I think that there's something that happens to you when you get this sick. You get real pissed off, and then you want just some kind of positivity to come out of it. I don't want to look back and just think, "Dang, I was sick most of my life." I want to think, "I was sick, but I still used that to accomplish all of these different things. Despite of the sickness, I helped make change." And that's a really big motivator for me that despite what's happening to this body, there's other people out there that are fighting for change too. Big thank you from the Lyme community for joining into our crazy, crazy world.

Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm happy to be here.

This is awesome. Okay, I think that we're gonna wrap it up. I know that we're gonna have some more information to share. And do you have any social media handles we can share real quick?

Lyme Mind. We are Lyme Mind on Instagram, on Facebook, and on Twitter.

So please follow And there is videos on YouTube as well. If you search LimeMind, there's probably about, about 10 videos or so that you can see of actual feed from the conference. So you can check out some past ones, guys, and don't forget to check out their LimeFeed. I know LimeVoice will be sharing it on our platforms. I'll be sharing it on everything I can as well. Here I come, Facebook jail. So So much for your time, Savvy, and I hope you have a wonderful day and cannot wait to hear more from you guys.

Thank you, Jess, appreciate it.

Thank you.

Hey everybody, we really want to tell you about something that has changed our life.

Yes, our Kangen water machine has absolutely been a game changer.

Absolutely.

We had such a great response from episode Episode 64 goes into the details if you have not listened to it, as far as why it's been so helpful and what it does. And basically it's alkaline water, but it's also antioxidant-rich. So 2 glasses of fresh water is equivalent to 5 pounds of blueberries, and it has been radical for us as a household.

Yeah, there's, there's so many more uses. We, I mean, we had to do a whole episode on it. But basically, go to myfreewaterstore.com to find out more information directly. Go to episode 64, you can actually hear Wade Holder talk about all the different app, uh, applications and benefits from it. And then when you are ready to purchase this machine, we are now distributors. You can find this at limewater.com. Simple to purchase, right? There, choose your machine. If you have any questions, call me at 505-681-1770, and there is financing available. If it wasn't for their financing options, we wouldn't have a machine. Call me, we'll talk through some of those options, and this is going to be a huge benefit to your life.

Yes, it is, and we will be talking extensively over this next year, even about fasting and how powerful fasting can be with alkaline water.

Yeah, excellent. Water is key, people.

Change your water, change your life.

Yep.

Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lime Fighters. Keep it We'll see you next time. Lion Voice contains general information about medical conditions and treatments. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Okay, Lincoln?

Okay.

The medical information on Lion Voice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay?

Okay.

Lion Voice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast. Got it, Lincoln?

Got it.