110 Who Am I Really? Katrina Radke-Overcoming CFIDS & Learning To Trust My Voice

So what are some— you said you had to form new belief systems. What are some of those beliefs?

Well, the old belief may have been if I push harder and do more, I'm going to have more success. And, and a big thing I really teach now, ironically through my own experience, is that slowing down and listening within actually takes you— you can actually get to where you want to go faster because number one, you're paying attention more to what your body and heart is really, you know, sharing with you. You know, there was a point, and I wrote about this in my book, is there's to the point where my body was screaming at me.

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Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of Lyme Voice. With me today is Katrina Radke. She is an author, Olympian, health and peak performance coach, and she also appeared on the 35th season of the TV show Survivor. Cannot wait to hear that story. She now inspires people to shed their armor and shine their light. Katrina, thank you so much for being here.

I'm, well, glad to be here.

Thank you.

So you have such a fun, unique, inspiring story To look at your Facebook page, you just ooze energy and enthusiasm. And your book, which we're going to talk about later, just oozes transformation and power and strength. And yet part of your journey has been that you have not always had all that strength.

Yes.

So tell us how you came to be in the chronic illness, chronic fatigue land that none of us chose to be here. Like, we're all here on accident. Yes.

Sometimes I believe we're here to end up having some experiences that maybe we didn't know we were supposed to have, but then we do. And I, the big thing for me was, you know, I was a competitive athlete. I swam for the Olympic, in the Olympics, swam for the United States for 7 years. And I was training about 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. It was back in the 1980s when we all thought we were supposed to keep up with the East Germans who were on steroids. And so because of that, our coaches believed we had to train a certain way. Well, we couldn't recover. And I also have a little bit of type A, you know, personality. So I ended up with mono. When I was 16, then ended up not really fully recovering. And I justified I was fine. I was very stubborn about pretending I was fine. And, um, you know, kept going internationally and being able to do well enough to justify, oh, I'm okay. And then in 1989, showed up again with mono. And then in 1991, I was very, very, very sick and, um, did not know if I could even keep competing. And I found out that I had chronic fatigue syndrome. At the time, I didn't know if it was Epstein-Barr virus, chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome. What exactly was it going to be? Labeled. But I can tell you, I went to so many doctors. I'm sure many people who are listening to this can relate. And back then, there was such a stigma if the doctor could not treat you with a pill or tell you what to do. They didn't feel good about it either, right? So they would just doubt who you are, what you— what's going on for you. I remember one doctor telling me to go take some antibiotics, which had nothing to do with my situation. And of course, at that time, that just made things worse., and then other people just said, oh, you just need to take a break from everything and do nothing for a while. And I think there was just so much unknown around what to do. And because our society has such a pride around needing to know and not, not having to ask for help and be vulnerable, um, I really, gosh, I must've gone to 10, 15 different doctors before I was fortunate enough to find, um, my guy, Dr. Joseph Helms, who's an MD. As well as, uh, he taught, uh, MDs around the world acupuncture. And I was at school at Cal Berkeley, and he was, um, in Berkeley area. And so I was lucky enough to be able to start seeing him for treatments. That took me about a year and a half from 1991. It was about 1993 before I actually met him and started seeing him weekly and then biweekly, and eventually to the point where I was a lot healthier. But I went through a huge journey in terms of Oh my gosh, well, this can't happen to me. I'm supposed to be this, you know, world-class athlete and I can't even get out of bed. And I was feeling so wiped out I couldn't even sleep. I'm sure some people can relate to that as well, where you just feel like there's not much, uh, where you can feel like you are refreshed.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I feel like, uh, so, you know, I went through a huge spiritual journey because of it where I really learned to, um, go, well, who am I really beyond these titles or roles, or, you know, so many people knew me as a world-class swimmer. And yet I also really had always been fascinated by people, how we function, why we do the way we do, what motivates us, what drives us to be who we are, and how we behave because of it. And so the fact that I received this blessing in many ways from the universe to say, okay, time to have a little bedridden journey and be in a place where you can't do much, um, we I really had to look at life very differently. It really slowed me down. I was in a place where, you know, through this acupuncturist, he really also gave me some homeopathy. I had never taken any medicine for anything other than the antibiotic, the time that the doctor gave me that. And I had cut— I went to a nutritionist. I was always eating pretty healthy, but I actually had cut out sugar and dairy and gluten, which, mind you, in the early '90s was kind of not even discussed yet. And then I was at Berkeley, so I actually got really into meditation and yoga I could not even handle doing yoga at the time because I was so really bedridden. Just to drive to the yoga class was enough. The teacher let me go in the back of the classroom, put my legs up, and just breathe throughout the whole class, but at least to be in some kind of community to support me as I was getting well. What was interesting is that I looked so healthy. I mean, I looked definitely bloated. My body, as those of you who've gone through immune issues, the body bloats up. It gets swollen. It doesn't function, and so I definitely did not look well that way, but I didn't look like a person with severe issues in the sense of looking anemic, like they're looking just totally worn out. I just looked— I knew I felt terrible and I had dizzy symptoms. I felt headaches a lot, which I never had experienced headaches in my whole life. I almost felt like I had arthritis. And the worst was not being able to sleep even though I was so wiped out and then having the mind not work. And that was the hardest thing is the realization that, oh my gosh, this is like— and the other big thing was realizing that doesn't go away in a day. Or if I go do X, Y, and Z and try and do everything perfectly, that I'll be fixed in 3 months. Right. And so I started seeing a therapist during this time, which was wonderful. And she really helped me get through that part. I was so used to having goals and going after them and achieving them that I really had to learn to step back and be okay with whatever showed up in the moment. And to know that I was amazing as a human being, regardless of my successes or regardless of my titles or roles or getting the medals or not. And knowing that I can be okay even if I'm having severe pain too. That was the biggest thing I remember, especially when I got my menstrual cycle. There was times where I could not— you know, I just would be crying. So I just— at times I wanted to leave my body. I was in so much physical pain that I didn't want to deal with it. And it's like I really had to learn to be moment to moment and reminding myself that this moment too shall pass. Wow. And, and it's funny because through some of the intense training I did for swimming, there was moments like that in the training too where it's like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna make it through all this. But then just coming back to the present, back to the present. It sounds so cliché, I know, but it really does make a difference. So there's so many different things I could share with you about during those times, but I think the biggest lesson was to trust and to surrender into what is going on and to know that I am okay regardless of what happens, and even if it means that I have to be bedridden. So what happened was I ended up actually my doctor suggested I get disabled parking. And that was for my pride and my ego. I was like, but are you serious? You know, like I was 21 and I was in shock thinking that I'm going to have to go get a disabled parking sticker. And to me at the time, I liked to pretend I was fine, like I mentioned. And so to actually even have to ask for help for something like that, to me, with somebody with a broken leg or severe cancer or something really, really like really wrong, and I wasn't acknowledging that I was actually very, very sick. And so it took so much effort to even just get in the car and drive a mile, you know, and that was all I could handle. So that might be my outing for the day if I had one. And so I have to admit that it was— after I got it, it was actually kind of fun to have it, but it made a huge difference. I really could not walk, you know, around very far, and So it was an interesting— but it was an interesting process to go through mentally.

Definitely. It's so hard to go through those processes. And I would think especially as a 21-year-old fit, healthy, technically healthy athlete. Yeah. How were you constantly wrestling through, like, the skewed reality of how you looked versus how you felt? Yes.

Yes, so here's what's really funny. I remember parking in this disabled parking spot. I was in college still on campus. I had cut back on my classes. I was only taking like 1 or 2 versus a full load. I was just trying to hope to get through them to finish and graduate. And a street person came up to me on the street and knocked on my window. And he said, "Ma'am, do you know that you're parking in a disabled parking spot?" At first I was kind of rattled, and then I wanted to be able to have a cast on my leg, or I wanted to be able to explain my story to justify the situation. And I had that, you know, but he had a compassionate look on his face, but I also felt like I had to get out of the car and limp, if you will, and to show that I could not walk. It's an unseen illness. And I think that was the wildest part is not being able to give a very direct, like, this is why this is happening, or this is why I have disabled parking. And then having doctors not know what's going on with this unknown disease that was really still so new in many ways.— and I really had to learn to go, "You know what? I get to trust my voice. I get to trust my intuition. I get to know that I'm not making stuff up. I don't need to have validation from everybody in the world. I don't need everybody else's approval. I just need my own." Coming to that realization really freed me up. It really allowed me to know that, "Wow, if I'm okay with me, the rest doesn't matter so much." Interesting.

Yeah. Isn't it crazy how that stuff comes up? I have a similar example. I did not have an official diagnosis, but same thing. I could barely hold my— I mean, I drove with a pillow in my car for years because I— my arms were too heavy to hold up if I had to go more than a couple minutes.

Oh my gosh, I can relate.

Yes. Which of course doesn't make sense to any normal person or any— it didn't even make sense to me and I was experiencing it, but I was at a Ross clothing store, and they had forever— a forever long line. But at the return table, it said return and for disabled customers. So technically, if you were disabled, you had the right to go to this counter and not stand in the 20-minute line, which I literally could not do. Like, yep, right at that point, like, all I could do out of desperation was go in, get the first thing that sort of fit stand in line and try to get out before I collapsed. And so there was a huge long line and there was a sales associate there. And I said, he said, oh, well, you don't have a return. He was basically telling me to get out of line. And I said, no, I know I don't have a return, but I'm physically disabled and I'm going to— I need to check out here. I can't stand in that line. And he gave me the worst, most judgmental look I had ever, you know, seen from a sales associate. And I knew in that moment, like, I was fighting this weird internal battle with myself as well. Yes. Because I didn't know what was going on. It didn't make sense to me. But yeah, it— those judgment— I call it like medical shaming, where, yes, we shame ourselves because we want to be more or be able to do more, but then people judge you around because you do have an invisible illness. I looked Fine, I know that. Yes, he didn't know I couldn't breathe and was at pain levels of 10 and 12, like, you know. But those are hard things because you're fighting the battle when you're in that moment. You're like, oh yeah, what about all those other 15 doctors who basically said it was all in my head, you know?

Well, yes, because you start doubting your own abilities and your own, you know, trust of your own voice. And I can relate with you about the holding the arm up. I remember having to try and just let the body relax and having pillows on my sides so I was totally protected being held by all these pillows around my body. Because you don't really think about when you're healthy to let the muscles relax and just go where they go. There's still some level of tension if they're not literally in a place of not having to drop. So yes, it's a very, very interesting experience to go through that, for sure.

Yeah. So, okay, take us back. We always talk about mindsets. Fighting is a mindset. Fighting for your health is a mindset. And that it begins in the mind, and sometimes that's where it is. Like, sometimes you're not physically able to implement anything, but you just start implementing in your mind. So take us back to some of those mindsets that helped empower you and say at 21, hey, I'm not going to live this way anymore.

Yeah, yeah. So one of the big decision points is realizing that I had a lot that I needed to share based on my experience, and to realize that I, you know, really, I mean, it sounds weird to say, but that I was worthy, that I had value, that I needed to be able to express things from myself to others to help inspire them to be who they're really meant to be, to allow them to get healthy. I mean, I felt like I had gone from 21 to 100 years old and been very, very, very sick. And I always, I used to say to people that, gosh, you know, when I'm 90, it won't seem that bad because I've already been through it. And because I had achieved something so great at a young age, at 17, being an Olympian, I never really And then to have the depths of this low, if you will, of being bedridden. So it's a huge eye-opener to realize that nothing is permanent. And it's important to me, like I said, moment to moment is really where I need to stay. If I get too caught up in having expectations or rules around what I'm supposed to have my life to be like based on what, you know, I'm age 21, I'm supposed to do X versus this, I'm gonna be very upset. Whereas if I create a new rule or belief system around, wow, I'm going to be open to see what comes for me and I have something I'm supposed to learn from this. And that's really the route I took, thankfully. I mean, definitely I was very in denial for about a year before I finally went and got help. I was in a prideful place of just trying to swim through it. I even went out and partied hard and I just thought I could just go, go, go and see if I could survive it, basically. And of course it didn't help things. And because of that, I realized, you know, it is time for me to surrender and to be in this and to know that this is all there is, that gosh, life is still pretty amazing.

Wow.

You know, it's kind of like people who go through, you know, they're able-bodied and also they have paralysis or something happened that puts them in a wheelchair. Let's just say their life is forever changed. And I'm very blessed that Luckily, I'm not in the same scenario I was when I was 21. I'll be turning 50 this year and I'm definitely very active. I've worked out today a lot with teenagers actually and done other stuff. But it took me a while. I went through— if I look back, it probably took me a good 4 or 5 years to really recover. And I really got into alternative health. I was really looking for answers. And back then, again, meditation wasn't so big, yoga wasn't so big. The whole idea of how to, you know, eat differently. Of course, it was nutritionist, but it was more Western philosophy versus Eastern. And I also got really into how the cells vibrate and how the energy works, and can you release old genetic diseases that might be in the body? And I got really into this thing called like radionics.

Oh yeah, actually, yeah.

Okay, tell us a little bit about radionics. So I was on this program called AIM Program. This guy named Stephen Lewis, he just passed away. He was actually an herbologist guy as well as an acupuncturist, and he had studied— basically all disease has a frequency to it. Yeah. And if you can eradicate and change the frequency, you can heal a lot of disease. There's a machine called the Rife machine that was around in the 1930s, and all of that relates to rebalancing the system, basically. And so my picture— I met him probably in 1998 or so, and my picture was put on a tray, and what it did was they had different frequencies beam. They could actually test my frequencies of my body. They could tell me things that were going on in terms of potential diseases that could occur. They had the frequency showing up, but maybe I don't have the disease yet. And they could actually alter the frequency to eradicate the disease. And I really believe beyond the acupuncture and the meditation and eating a certain way, I do think it took me to the next level. I actually came back after that a couple years later. I came back and swam again Olympic trials in 2004. Which is unbelievable, right? I mean, I had, you know, 6 years before that, I was nervous. I was carrying Olympic torch in 1996. They called me up to carry it. I was calling them up in tears saying, I don't know if I can run up that hill for a mile. You know, I was— it had been, you know, I was back to walking, but to actually really be able to move that body quick, you know, decently and stuff with, you know, carrying a decently heavy torch, I was nervous. And so I had enough adrenaline, I ended up doing it. But I was knocked out afterwards for a couple of days. And I don't know if you experienced stuff like that.

I was gonna say, yeah, how long did you pay for that one?

Yes, yes. And that was the biggest lesson, right? Because realizing if I was angry or holding on to feelings I needed to express, I'd be exhausted. If I was trying to go do too much, I'd be maybe knocked out for a few days. And having to rebalance that energy was a huge learning lesson. And so that's one thing I teach people now, obviously, who are overachievers is, you know, it's great to be successful and go after what you want, but in the end, it's also really important to slow down and, you know, train smart, work smart. And, you know, we have a nervous system, the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system, and we need both. We need to sleep at night. We need to be able to get up and be active. We need certain level of, you know, eustress, if you will. Not distress so much, but eustress. And seeing that that helps mobilize us, it keeps the chemicals, the hormones going, helps us be balanced. And so I really feel like a big blessing for me was exploring new options. How can I get— well, I was very motivated. I did not like being sick.

Yeah.

And, and so I was very motivated. And I understand some people have it for 20 years.

Yeah. Well, you touched on something I want to circle back to, and you said that you had to develop a new sense of worthiness and new belief systems. So that's something that I feel like comes up every single time in an episode is why do you think it's about worthiness? Because we're talking about illness and disease and fighting for your life, right? Yes. But it come— why does it come down to worthiness?

Like, I think it stimulates so much stuff for all of us, right? And our society, especially, I really believe in the '80s and early '90s, was much more male-driven. And females— like, I remember when I was a corporate executive, I, I felt like I needed to be dressing like a 50-year-old when I was 25, you know, or being in a place where I looked masculine enough so I wasn't getting hit on sexually, or, you know, all of the, the beliefs and judgments that were part of the society were very different. And so I feel like, um, having to have the mindset of, wow, I am worthy of whatever I really want in my life, I am worthy of living the life I want to live, is realizing that, you know, the titles and accolades are not what it's all about. And I think our society, especially back in the '80s, was much more driven that way than it is today. I think today a lot more people want to have experiences and adventures and be who they really want to be and acknowledge their feelings. And back then we didn't have that same experience. It was much more of having to prove ourselves, especially as females, and in a much more male-dominated world than it is today. And so the worthiness stems from a lot of stuff. I really valued being successful., and then define my worth to some level through that. But I also needed to realize, and that's where just being bedridden and there's nothing else I could do, I was still worthy of being enough and loved, right? Wow. Life still loves me, you know, even though I can't go do stuff.

Yeah. How did your parents handle this when you were younger? I mean, you were still in and out of high school and college as this is unfolding, but you're a very proactive person to begin with. So how did that Did you need them to advocate for you? Were you capable of advocating for yourself? How did that balance work out?

So here's what's interesting is I lived away from home through high school, mainly so I could swim and train where I was going to school and swimming. And so my parents, I saw them like once a week and then I talked to them a lot on the phone. And so in a weird way, I had a very honest communication with them. And the one summer that I was very bedridden, I was at my dad's house and, um, really, and he was very much into trying to do whatever I needed, like in terms of food or if I needed rest or, you know, just letting me be able to do that. He wasn't the most emotionally available person, if you will, and so that part was not met. Um, I really feel like my 2 years of seeing— I saw a therapist for 2 years about every other week, and, uh, to me that's where I got a lot of my nurturance and, and honoring the fact that it's okay to go through this. Um, my mom had a hard time dealing with the sickness in many ways too. And it was different, right? Because it brings up their feeling of weakness or where they feel vulnerable. And I really, I felt blessed that they were giving me the best they could with what they knew, but that obviously, you know, my family's mainly German and English background, which people are taught not to feel. You're supposed to figure it out on your own. You don't need, like, you know, Italian families are much more, hey, we'll all bring you in, we'll figure it out together. No, it wasn't that way. You know, it's not like they denied it. But they also weren't, you know, like I said, a big Italian family, if you will. But they definitely wanted to make sure I got healthy and so were very eager to help me with going to doctor appointments or whatever I needed to do to find my path. But I really feel like I was blessed, you know, where I was at Berkeley, because there was so much meditation groups, there were so many things going on that way. You know, they were really in the forefront of holistic health. And so I was surrounded by a lot of amazing people people who I learned a lot from in terms of getting healthy.

Wow, that's really neat. That's—

yeah.

So what are some— you said you had to form new belief systems. What are some of those beliefs?

Well, the old belief may have been if I push harder and do more, I'm going to have more success. And, and a big thing I really teach now, ironically through my own experience, is that slowing down and listening within actually takes you— you can actually get to where you want to go faster because number one, you're paying attention more to what your body and heart is really I'm sharing with you. There was a point, and I wrote about this in my book, is there's a point where my body was screaming at me, like, "Come on, you need to stop," right? And there was my ego, "No, no, no, I can't, this can't happen to me," right? And so it was having to really surrender into that voice and know that that leads to more amazing opportunity. A big thing I got out of going to a therapist was knowing that being vulnerable is powerful. Instead of it being a weakness. And that was interesting.

Yeah, that was a huge one because that was opposite direction of what you had thought before.

Oh yes, I think so many elite athletes have been taught to believe that, gosh, we can't allow anybody to know that we might be scared or, or nervous how the race might go or performance might go. We're supposed to just be the toughest, you know, people out there, if you will. And, you know, and society of course portrays Olympians that way, right? They're heroes. And like, you know, they're supposed to be, um, these amazing people have nothing wrong, and that's not true at all. In fact, I would say on some level, some of the most elite performers in whatever— it could be music, it could be business, it could be, you know, Hollywood, whatever— oftentimes they're driven by their feelings of lack of worthiness that make them want to be successful, to feel like that's going to give them, you know, the magic, if you will, to change how they feel about themselves. And the funny thing is, I feel really lucky because all this happened at a young age I got to see— think I didn't go striving for something until I was 70 or 80, right? And then realize, is this all there is? And then realizing, wow, the magic's not in this outcome. I mean, it's amazing to get there, but it's really in these moments of loving what I'm doing, immersing myself in it and getting fulfilled, challenging myself, growing, contributing, sharing with others. That's where life is so meaningful to have the moments where the mind goes quiet and be in the place of just experiencing you know, what is, as if somebody else is doing it for you. And that's where like my best performances came, or best practices, or even interacting with somebody else. And when there's a flow, you know it. It's when we're trying so hard that it gets complicated. So the belief of really allowing myself to be okay with crying, that was a big one. And knowing that doesn't mean I need to feel ashamed about crying, um, knowing it's okay to ask for help. And my gosh, nowadays I love asking for support, right? I mean, I'm not amazing at it, but I'm definitely way better. And, you know, it's having to let go of control too, is knowing that I'll be okay and I can trust somebody else to help me. I think it's a big one for people in our society. We all like to have certainty. We all like to feel significant to some level. And sometimes we're afraid of letting up that control because we're afraid we might get hurt or somebody might betray us, or we can't really trust that person. You know, all of us have experienced at some point where maybe somebody was going through their own stuff and really weren't that nice to us. And we get to realize, wow, you know, they're trying the best they can with what they know, but their defense mechanisms aren't working so well, right?

Yeah.

And so if we're a recipient of that, it can be very hard to then trust somebody else. And so I think learning to really trust your inner authority is a big piece of that.

Hmm.

Yeah.

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That's where I really went with really starting to own my strengths and knowing that, wow, you know, I may not be perfect. I definitely make a lot of mistakes, but I can be okay with that. I can learn to to, you know, forgive myself for mistakes and also be really thankful that I've been given a lot of gifts to be able to do some really cool stuff in my lifetime. And it's a mix of all that.

So I had watched your— a couple of interviews that were online for when you were on Survivor, my little bucket list, which was awesome. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And one of the things that on the episode you were in, it was season 35, they had divvied you guys up into heroes, healers, and hustlers.

Yes.

And you said in the interview that you, uh, I think you got put in the hero category, and you said, except at this point in my life, I really identify as a healer. Yes, very much. And I was like, oh yeah, like when And people who identify as healers, it just seems predominantly, and it's like oozing out of them, that it comes because they have suffered. It comes because they have developed a new level of empathy or a new level of overcoming. So how has that mentality impacted you after, as you're living, as you're creating your new life, as you're creating a life of recovery and abundance and not not scarcity.

How has that healing mechanism got triggered for you, or how do you foster that? Well, I'm sure you've read stories, people who have really suffered much more greatly than I ever have, people who have been put in prison camps or stuff that's just horrendous that have happened to some people in humanity who— I'm trying to think of one of the books. Is it in Viktor Frankl's book? I mean, and some of these people come out blissfully happy. You know, they end up really just loving their life and not being attached to much and knowing that anything can happen, you know, on all levels, and that they get to decide how they handle it. And I'm not saying that— I mean, I would never want to be in that scenario, but I think there's a certain level of that that I've gone through where— a very different scale, by the way. I mean, definitely not so horrendous as that by any means, but I feel like I've dipped into what it's like to not have my, you know, really not have my health, where I didn't know what was going to happen. And beyond that too is, you know, realizing that just because I had achieved something in athletics that was, you know, considered the pinnacle of sport, if you will, that also does not define me. And so I think it's so common for us in society to want to grab on to have security and hold on to a role, whether it's like being a daughter, mother, sister, brother, child, you know, CEO, president, whatever it might be, and realizing that really we're much bigger than any of that, that that really could never define anybody. And through meditation, really, God, our egos are just one part of who we are. And when we get beyond all of that, there's a vastness that's just so great. And my best performances also in the athletic world or when I was beyond all that, where I was able to train the mind to be focused, like, then be able to train it to let go, to then go into the deeper subconscious of my deeper being. And then I, you know, I'm not so religious, but I do believe there's a divine power that does guide me. And when I'm letting that run me versus me trying to run something else, wow, life happens miraculously, magically. Things get taken care of when we start asking questions that allow us to to feel, well, how can I really look at this as an opportunity today? Maybe I've been bedridden now for a while and I'm laying in bed and, you know, I used to take these green pills every morning when I was really sick to basically get me up, to get the energy through the oxygen through my blood to get up. And it's funny, the beliefs we start creating around what works. Who's to say what works? We don't know. I mean, some people smoke their whole life and lived to 102. You know, and I'm not condoning smoking, but like, I'm just saying, like, we don't know. We don't. Yeah. And then yes, I think there's a lot of proof that shows that we're, you know, if we take care of ourselves and eat a certain way or do these different things, it does make a difference. But there, you know, if our belief system's a certain way, life does take care of you. And I think that's a very important thing to remember, is if, for those who are listening who are still very sick What would it be like if you made a decision that, you know what, what if my life in 6 months could be different? What would it look like if I look back 6 months ago and I've just, by making the decision to change maybe a habit I'm doing right now? You know, one of my things my therapist had me do was literally get up in the morning and move my keys, my car keys, from one side of the dresser to the other.

Interesting.

As if you had left. Yes. Yep. And so just having the action and completing the action, and by doing so, knowing that when I say I'm gonna do something, I follow through on it. I can trust my voice. I can trust that I'm going to build my confidence because I'm going to start knowing, wow, I said it, I did it. I know when I say something again, I'm going to do it. That's going to lead to bigger and bigger things. And so I think, you know, I don't want to discredit anybody because I know some people may be bedridden for a long time and they may pass away from things happen, right? And, you know, that's beyond our control to some level maybe. But in the end, how can we then choose some sense of joyfulness or having more sense of appreciation for what we do already have. And ironically, from that place, more can come in terms of our own health.

Yeah, I've been— I've reread it several times, but Ryan Holiday's The Obstacle Is the Way. Uh-huh.

Are you familiar with it? I've heard it.

I haven't read it. It's based on like Stoicism philosophies. Yeah. And just that, okay, whatever is standing in your way, whatever obstacle you're up against, whether it's fatigue or pain or whatever, that when you— most of the time we spend a lot of effort just trying to ignore those obstacles in our lives. And when we transition to say, okay, no, I'm going to deal with this in whatever way I can, and, you know, whether I need to go around it or over it or through it, like, how do I get around this obstacle? Then doors open that would never have opened because of that perspective, because you're saying, no, I'm going to deal with this even though it sucks and it's going to be hard. I, I'm not going to let this thing control me the way it does now. Like, I can't control it today, but maybe 3, 3 weeks or 3 days or 3 months from now, I can control more of what's stopping that. And that those obstacles then become your actual pathway towards— yeah, towards a different level of living.

Yeah. It's funny, you know, I remember a couple years after I had already really almost been healthy— not healthy, but much better— I had an athlete contact me who was a world record holder who had been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, and she was about to go to world championships. She's been telling me, Trina, you know, I just want to go. And I said, you know, listen, if you just actually took off now and, you know, and just had 6 months, you might be able to swim in 2 years. But if you go keep trying to push through all this, you may be done. And it's interesting because she chose to keep going and had it stop after, basically. And of course didn't do what she wanted to do. And it reminds me so often of all of us wanting— you know, it's like pride. There's a book called Power Versus Force by— I don't know if you've ever read that book, but it kind of goes into levels of consciousness. And what was it called? Power Versus Force. And let me think of David Hawkins. David Hawkins is the author. And just the realization that sometimes when we're stuck, especially when, let's say, that big rock's in our way and we can't get around it, that we try to move it even though it's too heavy, that we get ourselves more into trouble. And that realization of, wow, if I can let go of my depression around it or my frustration or, you know, pride, that maybe I can find the Taoist way, if you will. I'm very into Taoism, by the way, meditation. That you find the flow, you find the easy path. And believe me, I would have never said this as a 17-year-old, but at 49 I can say this because I've seen so often when I put an intention out there and if it shows up easily, it's— I just know that's my path. And you kind of know your energy changes, you feel more energized by it. Whereas if you're fighting and pushing and they have a push-pull effect and you can't move that big boulder, maybe there's another way you're supposed to go. The vehicle has to shift and find the stream where the water is moving, and/or turn, find the little pebbles versus the big one. And I think when we are reminded to find a way, it could be as simple as, you know, I've been having 10 cups of coffee, but meanwhile I've been living with this autoimmune condition or something serious. Maybe it means taking time to cut out the caffeine that's affecting your adrenals and liver and all these other things. Or maybe it's somebody who drinks alcohol too much. I mean, all of these things are One way, there's simple actions to take, and yet mentally, emotionally, we get very attached to what those mean for us. And so we get addicted to holding on to them. And learning to not be attached to those things can change our life.

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I love everything you're saying. You know, it's interesting because I don't have any Olympian experiences that people call me up for, but a consistent call that I get from my audience is is one about chronic illness, but people who are wanting to adopt, because we have 3 biological kids and our 2 youngest are both adopted from Ethiopia. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Which was a huge, which was a lifelong dream of ours and mine especially. I really wanted to adopt. And, but when I, when I adopted, I did not know I was sick. I did not know what I was up against. I thought I was trying to recover from a car accident. Oh yeah, right. So I was like, oh yeah, you know, I do catch every cold that comes around, but, you know, I always get up and push through. And, and it's, it's interesting because this has been going on for 5 years now, ever since we started the podcast. People who have chronic fatigue syndrome or have Lyme or chronic illness will say, is this going to impact my home study? Is this going— are they going to deny me because I have a chronic illness? And I always tell them the same thing. I'm like, no, they're not going to deny you. But it— force versus power is exactly what they're dealing with because they said, just like I would have said, like, this is a lifelong desire. Illness has stolen so much from me. I'm not going to let it steal this from me. Yes, yes, yes. And there is sometimes wisdom in that. Sometimes.

But it does get you moving.

Yeah. Yeah, but you do, you have to honor the reality of what is going on in your life. And I had a very painful conversation with a young mom a couple weeks ago where she was like, no, I'm not going to give up on this dream. And she was only at 70%. I said, what level are you functioning at? And she wants to adopt a sibling set. And I said, look, if I could go back, I hear you. I know your heart. I know you want this. Yeah, but the reality of what you were dealing with— like, it— to be an adoptive parent and bring kids in from an orphanage that have been traumatized, you have to be at 125%, and you have to be like that for years. And so I said, there is more wisdom in investing that time and energy into your health and trusting that as you come out of it, you will be able to attain those goals, but most people don't listen to me. Like, in that context, I've had that conversation at least a half a dozen times, and I get it. And they usually push forward with what they want to do, and it's very difficult.

Yes, man. Sometimes we have to be stubborn and then learn from the pain that we're creating for ourselves. That's more so, right? Yes. So bad that we go, okay, I've hit bottom, I'm willing to do something now.

Yeah, but force versus power it is such a difference. Yes, such a difference in how much energy it takes you to move from one obstacle to the next, but then after that even more so. Yes, I agree.

So tell us about your book. So I have a book called Be Your Best Without the Stress. If the subtitle is It's Not About the Medal, and it's mainly because I— in the Olympics I was 5th place, the East Germans were 1st and 2nd, and so literally I might get a bronze one day. I joke I might get a bronze because it's known that, you know, they're, you know, so anyhow, it's, uh, but it's a metaphor for what we've already talked about in the sense that if I'm focused so much on these accolades and titles and whatever money, whatever it might be, then I may be missing the whole point of life. And that is to really be present with something I love to do and find fulfillment in that and how I can learn and grow through it. And so my book, I share lots of tools for helping people to live their dream life. To help them deal with obstacles that come up and help them to refocus towards where they can go based on them. And then also transform into getting in touch— really, the goal of the book really is to help people find their true self and to tap back into that part of themselves that may have gone missing for a while if they had carried too much armor on and became an imposter, if you will, of their true self. So often, let's say I'm an artist and my parents wanted me to become a scientist, and it's just not my natural thing I really love to do, and I try to please them and did it, well, I'm never going to be fulfilled, even if I become decent at it or whatever, right? And whereas if I was able to pursue what I love, it takes me where I want to go. It's going to provide the learning experiences and the opportunities that I really am looking for. And so having the opportunity to pursue something and then also learning tools to let go of stress, and that's one thing I, you know, and learning to have approval of yourself as you go through the human limitations, if you will. I mean, I used to always think, oh, I can get through all these limits. I can see that we as humans don't have to have these limits, but you know what? We are humans in a body and there's gonna be limitations to some level that go on because, you know, could we go all day without sleeping? I don't know. You know, people, some people have tried to do that, but I think on some level we all need some sleep. So that's a human limitation, if you will. And I think people, once they learn some tools to be able to go, wow, you know what? What would it be like if I even just learned some breathing techniques? What would it be like if I actually just went for a 10-minute walk a day because I've been sitting at my desk all day? What would it be like if I learned to have gratitude or maybe even wrote down some visions of what I really do like to do? You know, I like to talk about the magic wand. If I had a magic wand and you're guaranteed every wish and you could guarantee to have it, there's no fear involved, who would you be? What would you do? And what would you have? And there's very many versions of that. But then putting some deadlines on our dreams, because I think that creates it into something that becomes more of a definite possibility that can happen. Now, since 10 years old compared to now, I definitely don't look at goals the same way. Um, I don't— I'm not convinced you always have to have so many specific goals and have them all laid out. I think it's more important to trust and listen within to what is guiding you deeper, and from there the goals come, or the dreams, or the visions, and that leads you daily to be motivated to do what you're here to do. And for me, I'm— a big part of what I am doing now is really wanting to help others be empowered to trust their true voice, to honor their truth and live from that place, be authentic in their living, number one, because that leads to whatever that may be for you. Yeah. And that's hard, right? Because so much of society is pushing us into, you're supposed to be this because you're you know, maybe this is your ethnicity, this is your sex, this is your sexual preference, and that means you're this. And instead of being like, why does it matter? And, or whatever, right? It could be parents, coaches, teachers, people said something that could have been, you know, something could have happened, or I got an illness, and then we let it define us rather than deciding, you know. So there's a great picture you may have seen where, let's just say this is me and this is circumstances, and I want to be big. And regardless of what happens, if it's raining, I still may go out for my run. Let's just I'm the person, right? And versus being circumstances and me being a victim to whatever happens. And so we want to be in a place of where, you know what, kind of like we were talking about, you know, the book, Viktor Frankl book. He chose how he was going to be handling things to some level, right? And gosh, it's not easy, but if we can do that, that is success. More than anything else, right? To me, failure is not trying. And when you realize that, that's if you're really getting stuck on fear of what other people might think, if you actually do what you want to become successful at it, the true failure and fear is really, gosh, what if I haven't done what I wanted to do here in this lifetime? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So I like to help people realize, yeah, I can let go of those fears, work through them, and then be empowered to go do what they want to do.

How many people do you think find their true self in life?

Yeah. Oh gosh, that's a great question. I'm not convinced there's that many. I think people know it, they have it, you know, because really I think a lot of people do have— they all experience that flow where they're in their process and loving what they do. And again, I do— I don't think there's one, only one thing that people can do. You know, I look at my own life, I feel like I could have taken 20, 30, 40 different paths and I would have been in my process. Yeah. So I think that's important to separate the content out of what you're doing versus the process you go through, maybe. But yeah, I think there's a lot of people going through the motions to some level of not honoring their patterns they play out. And gosh, we're all so much greater than we even realize in terms of what we're capable of. And it's a matter of though first becoming aware of, hey, you know what, it's okay to be angry today or feeling sad or happy or joyful and knowing it's okay to have all these feelings rather than pretend they don't exist. Or it's okay that maybe I didn't have this amazing, you know, if you— let's say I'm using swimming as an example. If I did not have that amazing race today and it was actually maybe I bombed bombed, or got last, or whatever it is, and to know that that's okay. I mean, it's kind of funny too with the Survivor show. I was the first one out. I never even dreamed or worried about that or anything. I thought, oh, isn't this fitting? I get to help other people know that I'm still okay with who I am, even though they decided to vote me off first, and be in a place of like, wow, maybe I have another gift to offer for people coming off the show. And I was really there for them to help them deal with getting voted off. And, you know, a show like that, obviously people do get voted off. Pretty much everybody does. Right. So that is part of the whole thing. But when you have a lot of Type A personalities, it's hard for some of those people. Interesting. Very interesting. And to know though that, gosh, if I have a lot of self-hatred or judgment or shame around not having a certain thing happen for me and I don't get it, oh my God. I think that's why, unfortunately, I don't want to bring it up, but the suicide rate, you know, has gone up. So I mean, I was talking to somebody, 'cause I work a lot with teenagers. I don't remember even talking about that when I was 10, 15 years old. And these kids growing up today, it's like, it's almost like they may know somebody. Yeah. And I just think we're not allowing people to be who they are more. You know, there's so much pressure on people to have to be these perfect selves or have a race to nowhere, and it's not really getting them to what they want. And so there's a lot of anxiety and stress and not feeling worthy enough. And the more we can help people go back to, hey, I'm, I'm allowed to feel okay with myself even if I got, you know, didn't get the perfect score.

Yeah, even if I was the first one voted out, even if— yes, yes, yeah. But it's the trying. You win when you try. I mean, yeah, that's what— it's interesting, when you were saying— when you were talking about true self, I wrote down just permission to be human. Yes.

And what freedom that gives us, right? Right. It's like the armor's lifted off. I go, wow, I'm free to be who I am.

But that takes so many layers of stripping off the ego, stripping off maybe old beliefs, old— because I've been through very similar transformation type process as you in the sense of I realized that a lot of the beliefs I had about me physically, emotionally, spiritually, financially, those beliefs when you're disabled for 11 years no longer serve you. And so it's this huge huge process of going through and being like, okay, does this habit serve me? Does this belief serve me? Is it helping me or hindering me? But even with my husband, because I was sick for so long, like, it's been a, an up and down cycle for both of us. Oh yeah. And it's just amazing how many times we have to come back over and over again and just give ourselves permission to be human, to have needs, to have pain.— so true, right? I mean, it just, it just shouldn't be this hard to want to, to want to live your best self and be the best version of yourself. But in order to do that, you have to strip away— you have to strip away so much garbage that you maybe weren't even conscious of that's been controlling you.

Yes. And I think one of the biggest ones that hit me when I was young is realizing that I I need to be okay with what I want to do in my life, even if it means some people who I thought were there to support me aren't. And I learned that at a young age. I remember as a 6th grader, actually, people teasing me saying, oh, and they did it. They did not even know what my real dreams were, but they were telling me all you do is put some swear words in there. And they said, all you do is, you know, effin swim and all this stuff. And we're really mocking me. And it's funny, you know, because some people are really afraid to go after what they want. So therefore they have to try and belittle other people who are going for what what they want. And our society is, you know, it's an interesting thing because I think when you pursue your heart and soul into something and you see what you're capable of, that same idea of how you go about that does apply to other areas in your life. You know, how I do this is how I do everything. And I think realizing that, wow, if I get most satisfaction and happiness— if I try to fit into a group and I'm mocked and picked on or whatever, I'm just making stuff up here, but and but I really want to belong, so I was willing to have that happen. Is that better for me, or is it better for me to be mocked, you know, like pushed out of that group and they don't even see me anymore, notice me, but I'm happy, I'm doing my thing? Gosh, I, you know, it's harder, you know, geez, let's be honest. It's like, but that's what I think a lot of kids are going through in particular, is even in corporate life or other things where people are in groups of people, if it's not a positive peer pressure, that kind of stuff goes on a lot of places. Oh yeah. And the truth is, we need to honor that. So a kid who's strong enough to walk away from that, that's empowered, that's powerful, right? We need to have school administrations and people in companies also calling people out if they're not being appropriate in those kind of situations, right? Because in the end, we're here to help each other build each other up. You know, life is never easy for anybody totally, right? There's a lot of amazing things, and there's also things that are We all go through some suffering. Yeah. And we're here to help each other out versus try and knock each other down. But I think our egos think we have to knock people down to raise ourselves up, and that's not how it works. So it's— there's a lot that can be learned as we go through, uh, different setbacks for sure.

Yeah. Huh. Wow. Thank you so much for your time. I have loved hearing your energy and hearing your story, and I love everything you stand for and are trying to accomplish.

How do people get in touch with you? Yeah, thank you. I am— best place if they want to email— I have a 6-week course coming up that they want to join. They could email me at coach@wecoach4u.com. That's number 4 letter U. So it's coach@wecoach4u.com. Or they can join me in my free Facebook group. It's called Keep Shining Your Light. And through one of those avenues, hopefully you can find me. Also have website, kathrinaraky.com, wecoach4u.com. Um, any of those ways is great. But I would love to hear from some of you. And have you any questions, feel free to reach out. Nothing's too silly, right? If you are afraid, oh, I can't do that, but yes, please do.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, Katrina, thank you. I really appreciate your time and energy and your years of overcoming chronic fatigue. And oh, you know what, I had one question. Is there a difference between chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome and Fatigue Syndrome?

No, it's the same name. Same name? I mean, the same— it's the same thing. Okay, different name but same thing. Yeah, CFS, C-FIDS, some people call it one or the other. And it was very interesting because Epstein-Barr virus is technically a different strain, if you will, but it's basically the same as well. So some people get called Epstein-Barr virus, but that is slightly different.

Yeah, but yeah, different labels, same symptoms, same recovery process. For so many people to just— where whatever their label is, it's that get back up to functioning, get back up spiritually, emotionally, physically, financially, and restore your life. So thank you.

Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. It's great to talk to you.

Yeah, you too. Hi guys, I want to let you know about a book I wrote called Little Bite, Big Trouble, and I'm gonna read a review that recently came in. This is from Carolyn, and she says, thank you so much for writing your book. It has become the means by which I have explained Lyme to my 4-year-olds. They asked for it to be read as a bedtime story over and over again and love that the mama birdie does yoga and juicing like their mommy. I can't thank you enough for writing this book. It has helped my family so much. You can find it today at Amazon.com. Little Bite, Big Trouble. Disease is contrary to life. Therefore, wherever disease exists, life must also fight to exist.

Good job fighting, Lyme fighters. Keep it up. We'll see you next time. LymeVoice contains general information about medical conditions and treatment. The information is not advice and should not be treated as such. Okay, Lincoln? Okay. The medical information on LionVoice is provided as is without any representations, warranties, expressed or implied. Okay? Okay. LionVoice makes no representations or warranties in relation to the medical information on this podcast. You must not rely on the information on this podcast as an an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. If you have any specific questions about your medical matter, you should consult your doctor or other professional healthcare provider. And for you, you consult your parents, okay? Okay. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition, you should seek immediate medical attention. You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, or discontinue medical treatment because of information on this podcast.

Got it, Lincoln?

Got it.