Satya Robyn teaches Buddhist kindness through the Itivuttaka sutra and Shinran's Pure Land teachings, drawing on her work as a therapist. She explores how compassion has limits, using a Facebook post about addiction and personal stories to show where responsibility ends and self-protection begins.
Chapters
Welcome if you're joining us on Zoom later, and welcome to Kate, Chris, and Kathy who are joining us online. Welcome everybody else. Fiona, and I haven't met you yet. Joe, oh, you're here with Fiona. Nice to meet you. So, yeah, a morning of new things for you too. Today's talk is on the second of three two-word instructions, really, written by my dear friend Terry Keenan, a Buddhist monk who died 3 years ago now, I think. And it was his, it was his kind of daily mantra. It was something he, um, he called it the three active virtues, and he, he would say it every day himself and try to live by it. And within those 6 words are the whole of the Buddhist teachings and very challenging words. So the words which you recited this morning with us are: no blame, be kind, love everything. So Casper gave a talk on no blame a couple of months ago, which is on our YouTube channel, which was kind of quite I wouldn't go as far as to say controversial, but it was, uh, thought-provoking. How is it to really not blame anybody? Um, won't be so controversial today, I don't think. But today is Be Kind, and then I'm speaking about Love Everything next month. Um, and I wanted to get us into the Buddhist mood by reading a passage from some sutras that we're studying at the moment. The sutras are the the kind of the earliest texts from, from the Buddhists, from the Buddha's time. They were orally transmitted and then written down by someone. And the— this text is from the Itivuttaka, which is a collection of texts. Did I say that right? A collection of texts that were— I like this bit— they were transmitted by a woman. There was a woman in the household who would go and visit the Buddha and remember what he said and then bring it back to the, to the household. So, um, and there's a couple of words that I'll just explain as we go along, but it's about loving kindness, it's about kindness. So this was said by the Lord, this was said by the Buddha. Bhikkhus— bhikkhus are the Buddha, the Buddha's kind of followers— whatever grounds there are for making merit productive of a future birth So, so he's saying, however we might want to do good things to, to ensure that we end up in a good place, all of these do not equal a 16th part of the mind release of loving kindness. So that, that kind of, that state of mind when loving kindness just kind of streams out of us, the mind release of loving kindness surpasses them and shines forth bright and brilliant. Just as the radiance of all the stars does not equal a 16th part of the moon's radiance, but the moon's radiance surpasses and shines forth bright and brilliant, even so, whatever grounds there are for making merit productive of a future birth, all these do not equal a 16th part of the mind release of loving kindness. Just as in the last month of the rainy season, in the autumn, when the sky is clear and free of clouds, the sun on ascending dispels the darkness of space and shines forth bright and brilliant, even so, whatever grounds there are for making merit productive of a future birth, all these do not equal a 16th part of the mind release. Of loving kindness. And just as in the night, at the moment of dawn, the morning star shines forth bright and brilliant, even so, whatever grounds there are for making merit productive of a future birth, all these do not equal a 16th part of the mind release of loving kindness. The mind release of loving kindness surpasses them and shines forth Bright and brilliant. I just feel like that's just poetry, that, that, um, text. Uh, welcome, Richard. Good to see you here. Um, so the gist of that text is kindness is, is really good, and, um, that's what we'll be exploring today. And I've talked in a previous talk about being kind, which you'll find on YouTube, about when we should be kind or when we should choose to offer or not offer. I've talked about that a bit before, so today I'm going to focus on something a bit different, and I'm going to focus on how do we know what is kind, how do we know what to do. And after the Brilliance of the Sutras, I'm going to move to Facebook for the beginning of my talk. And I don't know if anyone here is on Facebook. Yeah, I thought you were going to say none of you then. Oh my God, is it just me? Um, and I don't know if anyone here is aware of the Malvern Hills Notice Board. So the Malvern Hills Notice Board is a section of Facebook where, uh, people talk about local things, and there's lots of, uh, There's lots of businesses shared, lots of local information, and also a fair amount of kind of road ragey behavior online. And I was on the Malvern Hills notice board last week, and I found myself drawn into a story. It was a photo. I'm hoping that it's on Facebook, so it's not confidential. It was a photo of someone who was in someone else's garden at 1 AM. And they were basically saying, does anyone recognize this person? You know, they've stolen— they were kind of looking through their washing. They'd stolen some of their clothes. They'd been in the garden in the middle of the night before, and they'd also stolen a garden hedge trimmer or something that was broken. That this person was worried might be dangerous to the person that had stolen it. Um, so the first thing that I read was lots of people who did recognize this person, and they knew them as, um, someone who was in addiction. And a lot of the people that, that, that knew this person were very upset by them. They'd had their own encounters with this person that had been difficult. And there was a lot of that. There was then another kind of member of the— just a random person who spoke up and said, oh, you're all being a bit mean. You know, like, this is a human being. Let's try and be a bit kinder here. There were people then replying to them. Saying, this person's actually really hurt me, you know, like, shut up. Don't be— it's not— it's— they're really causing harm. And then someone was saying, oh, the family should sort it out, or, you know, shame on the family. And then a family member posted and they said, we've tried everything we can, we've tried to help this person. And then they wrote, I am ashamed in capital letters. And I just kind of— that was the one that really got me. That this was all happening in a public space, that this laundry was being aired, this dirty laundry was being aired. So as a Buddhist who wants to be kind, how do I respond to this post? Who do I reply to? Who do I stick up for?
How do I—
what do I do with this? Because my heart went out. I will tell you what I did at the end of the talk. So part of the gist of this talk is that, is that we're not actually as good at helping people as we think we are. Um, when I say things like that that are a bit judgy, I, I sometimes reframe them because I don't know, you might be all be excellent, but my experience is that I am not as good at helping people as I think I am. Um, and Shinran, who, uh, is a great Pure Land teacher who lived in Japan from 1173 to 1262, really helped to formalize the, the school of Buddhism that we practice, he, he agrees with me. He said, concerning compassion, and this is a longer quote from him, but I'll kind of— there's a bit in bold— concerning compassion, there is a difference between the path of sages, which is the traditional Buddhism path of kind of efforting, and the Pure Land path, which is more about a kind of other power. Compassion in the path of sages is to pity, commiserate with, and care for beings. And this is the bit in bold: it is extremely difficult, however, to accomplish the saving of others just as one wishes. And then he goes on to say that compassion in the Pure Land path is more about kind of doing our own work first, really, and coming into relationship with the Buddha, and maybe even waiting until after we die and we go to the Pure Land where we can kind of— the conditions are perfect for us to become enlightened. Before we do anything. So the idea is that we withhold our helping until we, um, until we, we are less ignorant, I guess. And this is the other bit from the quote that I've bolded: however much love and pity we may feel in our present lives, it is hard to save others as we wish. Hence such compassion remains unfulfilled. So I, I have a sense of the rightness of this now, and I want to kind of— I want to put in a proviso straight away, but I'll, I'll wait for the proviso. I have more of a sense of this being true now having, um, having spent many years examining my helping, examining why I feel motivated to help, how I help, what kind of effect it seems to have on the other person. Um, and I resisted it because being a helpful person is one of the things I really like about myself. I like to see myself as, um, a, a good person. I like to see myself as someone who is moved by, uh, distress in other people and just kind of naturally makes offerings that are very supportive and, and helpful. Um, and, and that's a part of my— that was a part of my identity. I guess. And, and Buddhism says that those things that are a part of our identities are the hardest things to, to release or unravel a little bit, because we like to know who we are, and we like to know— either we like to know that we're really good people, and then we feel settled, or we might like to know that we're really not good people, and that, that helps us feel settled too, in a strange way. Um, because we know where we are. Oh, I'm rubbish at this, that, that's just who I am. That, that, that gets kind of quite stuck, those kind of beliefs. So identity is something that gets very sticky. Um, but as time went on, what I realized is, is two things. Firstly, we often make assumptions about other people or we, or we misunderstand other people in the situation they're in. So we're acting from information that isn't actually, uh, accurate. Um, and secondly, we are often motivated by a mixture of altruistic, free, spacious, giving, generosity, and parts of us that are trying to protect us in various ways. Um, and that can be quite subtle. So I'll, I'll give an example. Um, example of the first is thinking that we know other people. I might have read a book which changes my life. And I might really think that it would be good for my friend who struggles in this particular way. I'm certain of it. And if I can only get them to read it, then they will feel much better. So that's an example of really a kind of a failure of imagination because, because the other person, I'm just gonna, that's fine. The other person is a different person. And if it, if it, if this particular book unlocked something for them in exactly the way it unlocked it for me, there's, it's actually pretty miraculous. I guess I'm just, I've just made this metaphor up, but books can, or teachings can be a bit like particular keys. And sometimes you get one that just sort of unlocks a whole new, ah, and actually all of our locks are different. Or we've got various, you know, we've got various doors, and books can be slightly different keys, to stretch my metaphor, but there's a limit to what one book can do. And actually, maybe my friend's not really into reading books, or maybe they're in a phase of their life where they just actually, they just need to be in survival mode and they don't want to do any reflection. That wouldn't be helpful for them. Or maybe the book's written in a way that just reminds them of their, their brother-in-law in a way that's really irritating, and they can't even get past the first page. So, so I think that this happens all the time, that we kind of often, we project our own experience onto other people, and we think if only they did that thing, they would be okay. What I sometimes say— I'm a therapist— what I sometimes say to my clients is if it was that simple, they would have already done that thing. Actually, if it was as simple as someone just saying, why don't you do this? Oh, then they would have already done it. If it's that easy, they would have already done it. There's a reason, there's a reason why they're not doing it. And then the second point that we're often motivated by a mix of different things. Um, I might feel like I want to change someone else because if they change, they would be happier, but actually the way they are right now is inconvenient to me. So there's a, a little kind of, um, Sometimes it's, it's, we're aware of it. Sometimes we're really not aware of it. If this person changes, then I, uh, I will be relieved from this problem that this person kind of presents to me. Um, and that's not about them, that's about me. And that, and that, and my experience is that, that, um, manifests in, in all kinds of different ways, that kind of self-protective motivation. Um, in a 12-step program I used to be a part of, they used to say that if you offer advice to somebody once, then that's, that's fine. That's, you've got a bit of information, they might really want to have it. If you find yourself giving them that advice twice, or maybe 3 times, or maybe you might put it in a different way and give it to them in a different way, or you might leave a leaflet out, you that maybe that it's not for their benefit. It may be that there's actually something that you really need them to do differently, or you need them to change to help you to be better somehow. And that might be as simple as they are suffering and it distresses you that they're suffering. Um, that is, you know, that's— it's a very understandable and kind of compassionate thing to feel, um, but just because you don't want to experience your distress about their suffering, um, that's not, that's not about them, that's about, that's about you. Does the other person want to move out of their suffering?
Do—
is it helpful for that person to suffer a bit more before they come to some kind of, you know, some kind of rock bottom or something that, that that points them into a different direction. I don't know. Um, but one of the very common things that therapists fall into, which is not helpful for, for clients, I would say, is wanting to, to shift them out of their suffering because it's, because it feels better for them. Um, And it, it's not that this is a bad thing. What I'm, what I'm describing doesn't mean that we're bad people. It means that we are complex, um, fallible people. In Pure Land Buddhism, we talk about bonbu beings who are kind of driven by various attempts to to not be so afraid, to, to keep ourselves safe from being rejected, to, um, manage our jealousy, to, uh, help us to feel that we're not terrible people, that all of those kind of instincts are understandable, but they often have an effect on other people, or they, they somehow kind of, um, complicate our offering with our own stuff. Um, I can remember in my original therapy training, they, they talked a lot about what's your stuff and what's the client's stuff, like what are you bringing to the table that's actually, um, complicating and, um, complicating the situation and pulling the focus away from what the other person might actually need into you subtly getting your needs met. And we can do this, certainly I, my system can do this in a very, um, a very subtle, insidious, clever way. That, that, um, I think we all get our needs met in kind of clever ways. I remember Big Brother, in the good old days of Big Brother, I used to love Big Brother because they used to just have shots of like— I can remember this woman and a man just doing tai chi in the garden for like an hour. They just— I used to love watching that. And then it got all sensationalized and they used to make them all upset with each other. But in the good day— why am I telling In the good days of the Big Brother, I completely— I can't remember at all what was I saying.
Very subtle, insidious.
Thank you, thank you. It's good to have your spouse in the room sometimes, especially when you're menopausal. Um, so on Big Brother, I would watch people trying to influence each other in various ways. And doing that in ways that were really subtle, you know, the, the kind of the popular people and how they would align themselves with the other popular people or the people that got their needs met by being vulnerable or, you know, all that kind of, all that interplay of relationship. And sometimes people would say to each other something like, oh, you're doing that, so you're manipulating, you're manipulating people. And I always thought at the time, that's not quite right. And they are manipulating people, but they were totally unaware. It was just who they were. It's just how they got their, their social needs met. So it wasn't a self-conscious manipulation. It was just how we get through the world, how we get through, um, how we survive relationally. It's kind of vulnerable, isn't it, to be in relationships? Um, so that's going on all the time, that, that, that kind of self-protection. And, um, and of course it's going to happen when we think about being kind to other people. Um, so the other thing I, I, I want to say before we move into what we can do is even if we are, um, even if we do reach a place where the parts of us that want to, to kind of influence in various ways for our own purposes, even if they kind of step aside and we feel genuinely that we just want to help somebody else, how possible is that? How possible is it to help other people? Um, and I can remember our old Buddhist teacher saying to me at some point, that as he'd got older, he'd become less and less interested in, in helping people for, for this reason. Um, and I, I guess the example that, that comes to mind most strongly for me is that I was in a relationship with someone who was in addiction for a long time, and I did a lot of work on myself in the latter years of that relationship, and I really did begin to get clearer about the parts of me that were trying to manipulate them so I could not have to see them suffering, and so I could, you know, so I could have a nice relationship with them. Um, and the kind of the more open-hearted compassion that arose when I just witnessed their suffering and I felt bad for them. I could see that it was really a tough life to be living, and I think I You know, I think I did get better at being compassionate in a, in a much more straightforward way. I looked after myself. I was, you know, doing all sorts of things to make sure I was okay. And I was able to just offer support or listening or, you know, it didn't help them. It didn't help them. And that still kind of uh, makes me feel, uh, sad that, that there are situations where people are so caught in their karma, they're so caught in the result of their childhoods, their, you know, their ancestral burdens. Um, there might be something biological going on, something genetic, whatever it is that that, that sometimes people are so caught that all the help in the world can't actually save them. Um, I'm thinking about, um, Bob's, um, story that Casper sometimes tells a therapist who has a very big kind of trauma background himself, and he worked with people who had lots and lots of trauma. And, um, he was— it was he had a friend and, and couldn't save her. She killed herself.
And he said she was in a secure psychiatric institution, she was on suicide watch. He was really trying to help, you know, offering different kinds of support. And in the 10 minutes she was left alone in between checks, yeah, and his, you know, his friend said to him, 'Bob, you can't save them all.' Yeah. And it's— and, and that was the moment where it went in, like, 'Oh, actually there wasn't anything I could have done.
Yeah, yeah, you, you can't save them all, and that is a tough message. And especially if you are in relationship with someone who's suffering, it's really tough. And, and I resisted it for a long time because I didn't want it to be true. I thought if I work harder, if I can, you know, make the perfect interventions, if I can arrange the perfect support, then this person will shift. And, and they didn't. And, you know, the person I'm talking about died, um, as a result of their addiction. Um, and, and that— there's something about that that is, um, devastating. And there is also something about that which I feel a kind of a slight relief about, because it's not in my capacity to It wasn't in my capacity to save them. That it wasn't that I failed. It wasn't that I didn't do something I could have done. It actually wasn't my call what this person, you know, the path that they took. Um, so even if we are acting from a place of, of genuine sort of open goodwill, all we can do is make the offering and then it's up to the person whether they're able to take it or not. Um, and we never know where those ripples will end up. So even though this person I'm talking about died, if we believe in rebirth, they'll have another time round, and, and the things that they received this time round maybe will just kind of shift something. Or maybe the memory of that person, as that ripples out, there's something about the memory that can be healed or, um, forgiven, or there are things that can, that can shift. Kindness can enter. Um, I always think about the, the, this metaphor that, that we're putting a drop in the bucket. The bucket needs to be full in order for something to change. We don't know how full the bucket is for the other person. So it may be that a person receives a little bit of kindness from us and somehow their bucket gets full and there something does change, that, that there is a new opportunity. I'm waving my hands around a lot today, sorry if you're watching on Zoom. So, so we, so we never know. And, and, and I have a deep faith I have no proof of this, but I have a deep faith that when we do make offerings from that place, they stay in the world. It's like they, they, they, they, they aren't lost. They're, they're, they're real and meaningful, and something does change as a result of them, even if we can't see what's actually changed. Thinking about plants, you know, and the roots go down and down and down, and then suddenly the plant comes up or the flower emerges, that we never really know what's happening under the earth. So the next, the last section here is, can we do anything? I'm just going to let you all go and you'll be like, well, I've been to the talk. Satya Robyn told me there's no point in being kind, so I'm just going to go kick a few people. Can we do anything?
Yes.
At the top of my list of things that we can do is witness. And I see more and more the value of being able to really be with someone where they are without trying to get them somewhere else. And I'm still learning that. I know that that's— I know it's better to not try and get someone somewhere else. But I'm still learning that because it's so tempting to just want— if it's horrible, you just want to nudge them a little bit to the left. But actually, what, what's really healing is for someone to see you and to be like, yeah, of course you feel like that. Of course that grief is that deep. Of course you feel furious. How else would you feel? And, and, and to to feel validated, to feel like, yeah, it makes sense what's going on right now. If it didn't make sense, you wouldn't be there. If it was easy to just get out of it, you'd get out of it. Um, so just being able to witness— and we can do that in different ways. We can listen, we can ask questions, we can be really curious about what is actually going on for the other person. Um, it is okay to make suggestions. I don't think that's banned. Uh, but just be curious about how many times you're making them. So if you make a suggestion once, great. And, and then if you go back and keep making it, then, then just be curious about that. If the other person hasn't taken whatever it is you've, you, you've wanted them to have, then maybe just take it back yourself and give it to someone else. Um, before making an offering, You can ask the person what they need, right? Before you give advice, before you give money, before you give anything, you can say, you can say, oh, I, I, I, I see that this is tough and I'd like to be able to support. Is there anything I can do? And just see what they say. Or you could say, I've got this, would it help? So, so kind of letting that person keep ownership for, for what's helpful for them or not helpful them. Um, it can be helpful, I think, to trust that other people— you might not believe this, but I believe it— that other people are doing the best they can within the circumstances they find themselves. So, um, you know, the person that was in someone else's garden in the middle of the night, who knows what kind of life they've had, and who knows what kind of trauma they're carrying, who knows what their choices are in the, in the circle they're in. Who, you know, who we don't know. We don't know people. Um, but when I do get to know people as a therapist, I get to know people pretty well. It always makes total sense. Everything that people do, even if to start with, they're like, why would you do that? Because that just seems crazy. Once we explore it, it makes total sense, and it seems like the only thing that's possible. For that person. Um, so knowing that about other people can really help because it helps you to not need them to change, and it also helps you not to judge them as being stupid, I guess, or, or, you know, failing. Um, which doesn't mean people don't have accountability and that people shouldn't, um, you know, people don't have choice and, uh, that people, uh, you know, we shouldn't set boundaries for ourselves ourselves. So I'm not saying just, oh, everyone's doing the best they can, let's just let them get on with it. So that there are situations where we do need to look after ourselves around other people. Keep being curious about what in you is an open offering and what is you trying to subtly get something back or keep safe somehow or avoid some to avoid witnessing something you don't wanna witness or avoid seeing something in yourself you don't want to see. Just keep being curious about that. Um, I think we can live our lives in a way that we would like to model, you know, we can One of the things that's really important for me is being able to be honest about my, my limits. So I, I often talk about my limits, or I'll often be curious about my limits because I kind of believe in that value. I'm hoping that other people see me talking about my limits and that that helps them to look at their own limits. Um, and we can't do that in a sort of a way of, oh, well, if I do this, then the other person will do this, uh, because that's sort of slides back into, into self-protection again. But, but there is something about— people do notice how we are in the world, and, and we do influence people all the time. So how can we, how can we be kind but also be honest about when we're not able to be kind, or be honest about when we've got mixed feelings about being kind, or mixed motivations? Other people will, will see that, and it, and it may help them look at their own. Um, do practices that help us to find and stay in that compassionate center. So, uh, everyone in this room has got a gold star for having been to Buddhist practice this morning. Hopefully those kinds of practices help us to stay in touch with the, the generosity that is behind the self-protection. And there are lots of different practices that people will do, maybe being in nature, maybe having friendships with people that are supportive of you, maybe therapy, maybe doing climbing, you know, different things, different things help different people. I'm pointing at Barney because he does climbing. And then I've got one in capital letters, which is BE KIND TO OURSELVES, because if we don't do that, how can we be expected to be kind to other people. We need to practice being kind to ourselves. And for a lot of us, it's harder to be kind to ourselves than it is to be kind to other people. And, and what is that adding to the world if we're, you know, beating up on ourselves? What, what's that modeling? What's that, what's that leaving us with? Um, so So what did I do on Facebook? Uh, the Facebook conversation? Um, nothing. So I felt my heart go out to all these people, and I, I sort of almost teetered on the edge of replying to support a few people, and I just kind of sat for a minute. Is this my business? It's not my business. It's not my business. Um, but I did do two things. I wished all of the people well, like everyone on the list, including the person in the photo in the middle of the night, including the people that were horrible about them, including the, you know. And I also, uh, thought about what would would be kind to me. And what would be kind to me is not getting involved in reading those, those posts, stepping away, um, because there was something that was just kind of fanning the flames. And, um, I don't think it's always a bad place to communicate, social media. It is possible that we find good stuff But it is really difficult to have those kind of complex conversations about how— what we do with people who are suffering, who are causing harm to other people. It's hard to have those conversations, and it— and nobody had asked me for my opinion, so I did nothing. So I might finish by just reading this quote again from Shinran and, and including the last line. Concerning compassion, there is a difference between the path of sages and the Pure Land path. Compassion in the path of sages is to pity, commiserate with, and care for beings. It is extremely difficult, however, to accomplish the saving of others just as one wishes. Compassion in the Pure Land should be understood as first attaining Buddhahood quickly through saying the Nembutsu, and with the mind of great love and compassion, freely benefiting sentient beings as one wishes. Compassion in the Pure Land path Uh, that's a repeat of that sentence. However much love and pity we may feel in our present lives, it is hard to save others as we wish. Hence such compassion remains unfulfilled. Only the saying of the Nembutsu then is the mind of great compassion that is thoroughgoing. So what this quote is saying to me is that when we can allow the Buddha to work through us when we can step aside and ask for help and put down our own self-protection or conceit or, or our identity. There is, is, then it's, is, is when, um, is when things just happen very naturally. We're not trying to be kind, we just notice that somebody needs the water passing to them, and we pass them the water. And that's the Buddha just acting through us. It's simple, it's not complicated. And one of the ways we can encourage ourselves to allow the Buddha to come through us, or to allow our own Buddha nature to shine forth, is to say the Nembutsu and There are lots of other ways too, but we're quite fond of saying the Nembutsu here in this temple. So I'm going to stop talking now. Thank you so much for your attention. I've talked for a long time, and I will answer any questions, and then I'll stop the recording. And there might be questions that you don't want to be recorded. Namami Tabi.
Namami Tabi.
And if you'd like to ask a question and you're online, just unmute and speak. We'll hear you. Good night, Scott. So I loved your talk. I'm a note taker, so great.
I like to reflect afterwards. So, good stuff. I really agree with everything you've said, but also it's been quite challenging for myself hearing it because I'm a natural helper. I want people to, you know, change. And then I completely agree, you miss the benefit of that. And I think, yeah, I think in coaching— I do coaching, one-to-one coaching— one of the things is you really want someone to gain that wisdom themselves. It's just not worth— you can't get somebody to have wisdom. You can maybe offer some suggestions, questions, but there is this thing about, you know, you get to a point, would you like some advice, or would you like a suggestion? And maybe that ownership. But actually, I think the learn I have is that people will not change unless they see the benefit to them, and that isn't my benefit, that's their benefit.
Yeah.
So I think it's a constant learning this, so it's not really a question, it's just that— yeah, is that suggestion that sometimes if you— if I maybe make it a note to self if I feel myself wanting to suggest and help and the way you should kind of, oh, have you tried, you know, before that, why not try yoga, you know, whatever it might be.
Yeah.
Um, is, is to stop myself and listen to where they're at.
Yeah.
Now. Yeah. And ask the question, what have you tried?
Great.
Might help.
Great.
But yeah, I really enjoy your content.
Yeah. Thank you.
The whole compassion, kindness I think is a part of yoga philosophy as well. Yes, I could completely see the parallels with Buddhism as well. So it's really, really good to hear today.
Yeah, thank you for sharing. It's really helpful to hear. And it's really, uh, interesting that as you were talking, in my head I thought, tell her this. And, and, and you carried on talking and you said Maybe I could ask him a question. That was going to be my suggestion. Because it's really, it's really tempting. And especially if we've got parts that are really good at that. You know, I've got parts that are really good at giving advice. I would like to think, you know, and it works for me that I'm good at that in my own life. For me, the keys, I work with something called Internal Family Systems and for me, the key is always shifting to curiosity. If you can, if you can catch yourself and just be curious about what's happening in you, it may be that you want to still do the thing, but it may be that you, you identify, as you said, that there's a part of you that, that just really wants to be someone that's helpful.
Yeah.
And yeah, it, as I totally agree, I think it's a lifetime's work. And you're already like way ahead of most people. Because, because, well, no, but just to acknowledge that most people don't do that kind of reflection. And that's not dissing them, you know, they've had different lives. But if it is possible for us to catch ourselves, that is something that is really powerful because that mod— you know, that kind of ripples out. So, um, I, I guess I'm I'm wanting to balance the sort of the depth of the, um, the, you know, the dysfunction with, with an acknowledgement of how, how wonderful it is when we can see it, or when we can see how we work and, and, uh, and just keep being curious about it. Yeah, yeah. And, and also I think different things in different situations are more or less appropriate. So I think within a coaching context. That's part of the deal, is that you're there to make suggestions. So there's also, you know, some places we are more licensed to kind of offer advice than others.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, they usually then sign up because they want something to change.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Well, I saw the Facebook post and my heart sank and I just didn't leave comments.
Well done.
I don't know why it was I just thought, I don't like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've got a part, I've got a part that really likes to know about those things, so that kind of hooks me in. And, and yeah, it's not helpful for anyone. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, anyone else got anything they want to ask or say, or anything that you struggle with personally?
I always think about, uh, Shinran's, um, assertion that— and this sounds a bit negative, but it's actually, it's got a very positive spin— that I think you'll probably know what I'm about to say, that we're also— because in, in Buddhist cosmology, we've all been traversing what we call samsara for— since beginningless time. And all the time we've been generating bad karma, and we're so full of bad karma that, uh, Shinran used to think that it was almost— in fact, I think, as you said, it was impossible for us to do a genuinely good deed that wasn't tainted by our own, you know, as you touched on, uh, by our own needs and our own selfish sort of projections and stuff. But that came with, uh, the positive— the positivity of, uh, the Nembutsu alone is true and real, you know. So we know that when we say the name Butsu, the name Butsu will do its work despite—
yeah, our—
it just is not impeded by our—
yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. And just to kind of translate that into different language, I think that— tell me if this feels right— that, that We are, we are very vulnerable, fragile beings, and we do, we do have a lot of self-protection. We, we need a lot of self-protection to survive, that we get weighted down with it. And it's always possible to access that untainted compassion that's behind it all, and that one way of doing that is that the Buddha will the Buddha shines the light.
That's the— that's the—
and, and, and, and, and, and kind of— and it doesn't matter how full we are of ourselves, that it's always possible to, to, to kind of connect in. And that can happen from outside or from inside.
Absolutely. I mean, my, my— I, I— that, that comes to me all the time because I don't think I can ever remember a time when I've done something good.
Yeah, not— yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I would— I know, but I know you, John, and I would dispute that because I think that there— I think you're very— you're a very naturally generous person, and I do think that you give things away, and you wouldn't see that as generous because it's just very natural. But actually, I think it just comes because you just kind of— you're like, oh, I've this, why don't you have it? Or so, so I think that, that ironically we're less likely to see ourselves as kind when we're being really self-critical. Yeah, when we're, when we're not efforting, or we're not— because we just do it. We just pass the water. Someone needs the water, we pass the water. That's, that's, that's kindness. We're not thinking, oh, if I pass the water, this person's going to see me as a really nice person, or, or if I pass the water, whatever. We just just do it. So I think both are true somehow. I agree with the depth of the tainting, and also I think that, you know, there are these moments where we just like, oh yeah, do you want a hug?
Or, you know, put a nature shine into it.
Yeah, or I don't know, my dog came in yesterday covered in seeds again. I'm just like, oh, I'll just take the seeds off. I wasn't sort of, you know, just, you just do it.
Yeah. To add to that same thing, someone recently contacted me saying, could I borrow some money? Because I want to do this, this, this. They had a plan, things they want to do, and I lent them the money. And in the knowledge of, part because I wanted to feel good about myself, and I recognized that straight away, you know, I I'm a good person, I've done this good thing, I've helped this person out. But also, hopefully, like, you know, it's a genuine— I helped them as well. Yeah, so it's like both things happen at the same time.
Thanks, Fanny, that's really important, is that we shouldn't wait until we're feeling unselfish to do kind things, because not much would happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's also good to to, to make offerings that include.
Yeah.
And it's the more we can see of our own self-protective reasons, the better, because that makes it a bit cleaner somehow.
Yeah.
If you didn't know about that, you might be like, yeah. Or, or if there's a part of you that expects that they definitely pay you back, or a part that expects that they'll do the good things with the money, or whatever, just to be aware of that. Um, I said in the Dharma talk, um, yes, What's that?
Sam. Ah, little Sam.
Little Sam. Ah, um, I read in the Dharma Talk, uh, on Wednesday that there are 3 things to be unattached to if we want to do a good gift: unattached to the gift itself, unattached to what we get back, and unattached to being a good gift giver. So those 3 things are a bit of a test. Um, and yeah, and totally We're human, and our cracked offerings are also wonderful.
Yeah.
Anything else? Well, I will finish by— feels appropriate somehow to finish by transferring the merit. From, uh, all of your attention and practice this morning. Um, yeah, I'm thinking about the, the refugees actually, the, the refugees, the 60,000 refugees, um, and the people that have died, um, and the reasons for that, the kind of the, you know, climate crisis and all that stuff. So that seems like, uh, a big thing to offer the merit to, like our little bits of merit. But I'm also thinking about we never really know how our little offerings will, will affect. The ripples can be bigger than we think. So, um, yeah, so if you know the verse, we're just transferring all the good stuff from this morning to those places. By your vows and through your Purulands appearing all around all of us today. We're going to just be blossoming for, um, and, uh, yeah, so, um, thank you for coming. Namamitabhu. Thank you, very nice talk. Thank you, Dharma.
