How Difficult It Is To Be Good - A Pure Land Approach to the Buddhist precepts

Welcome. My name is Satya Robyn, and I thought that we could begin— before I start talking at you, I thought we could just kind of arrive here together by just taking a few breaths, a few centering breaths, just to really prepare ourselves for hopefully receiving something, including me. Thank you. So welcome everyone in the room, and welcome to Platy and Chris and Helen joining us online, and anyone who's watching later. So I thought I'd just reread the blurb to remind you and me of what I said I was going to talk about, and hopefully I will talk about that. When we live an ethical life, there are many benefits to ourselves, to others, and to this troubled world. And we are fallible beings. Doing the right thing is not always easy. How can we negotiate this, and what wisdom do Buddhist teachings have to offer. So I wanted to begin by speaking about 3 of my precept heroes. So the first was a man called Dave, and not this one, and when I was, when I first went into work many years ago now, I worked in the credential and call centre, and I was in my 20s, early 20s maybe, and I can picture some scenes, you know, they just kind of stay with you, particular moments in your history, there's something important about them so they really stay with you. I was sat in the break room with some other, uh, 20-something-year-old colleagues, and Dave, who also worked in the call centre, was there, and he was maybe 5 years older than us, so I thought he was really old and mature. And we were gossiping. I remember that we were gossiping. I can't remember who we were gossiping about, or maybe there was like a complaining kind of, uh, mode to it. And I noticed— I'd noticed this before, but I really noticed it this time— that when we did that, Dave went quiet. He just, he just went quiet. He didn't say anything, he didn't look disapproving, um, and I really hated it. I felt so judged. Um, so Dave, one of my precept heroes, who knows where he is now. Um, and then Lizzie. Lizzie lives in Malvern. Some of you may even know her. She runs a vegan B&B and she was a part of a group that we formed a long time ago, quite a long time ago, of people that were self-employed that wanted to kind of check in with each other and help each other out. And we took turns having it at different people's houses. And Lizzie was vegan. This was way before I was vegetarian. This is way before I was vegan. And I can remember offering her a biscuit that wasn't a vegan biscuit and saying, 'It's only got a bit of butter in it.' And her response was, 'No, thank you, it's fine.' Very quiet, very non-judgmental. She just quietly went about being vegan, and I knew that she was. Um, and it was only years later that I appreciated her, her integrity, her steadiness, her, her kindness. And then finally, my Nana, who died at the age of 100 a few years ago. And again, this was many years ago. I think I might have even been a teenager, but I was in— no, I was probably older than that. We were in a supermarket together and I'd picked up something, and then I'd gone somewhere else, you know, several aisles down with her to somewhere else in the supermarket. And I, and I thought, actually, I don't need this anymore because I'll have this instead. And I put the thing that I picked up down in the new place, and, and she said something like, oh, you want to take it back to where it was? And I said, oh, it's fine, they're paid, they're They're paid to, to do things like this. That's what they should be doing, taking things back that people have put in the wrong place. And again, she didn't, uh, she didn't tell me off. She just quietly picked it up herself and took it back to where it had come from. I feel moved just remembering that moment. Um, because it was just— she was just being kind to the person that was going to have to do that and doing it for them. Because it was me that had done it. She was being kind to that person. She was being kind to me by clearing up after me. So thank you, Dave. Thank you, Lizzie. And thank you, Nana. This is the topic that we're talking about today. It's kindness. It's how to be kind. How to be kind to ourselves, to other people, to the Earth. Um, so what are the precepts? Um, the Buddha introduced the precepts, and he originally introduced them for his monastic, uh, followers. And he also introduced them for his lay followers, which is the people that, like us, who don't live monastic lives, and they're much simpler, the lay precepts. And he originally introduced them because he knew that if people lived in a particular way, they would be more likely to move towards enlightenment. So it was kind of about enlightenment. It was about, um, a spiritual sort of journey towards waking up to the reality of life. And he had a lot of precepts for the monastic community. I think he kind of kept introducing them when people did something a bit naughty or something that wasn't really, um, in line with the Buddhist teachings, he'd introduce a new precept. So I can't remember what the— what's the one about the women in a lake? Can't— nuns shouldn't flash their privates while they're washing their robes to the monks on the other side of the river. I always forget that one. Caspar always remembers it. So that's the kind of thing that was in the list of precepts, that all of the things that people could do were— went in there. But the lay precepts is what we'll be talking about today because we are lay people, we're not going to be washing our robes in the river. And I thought it might be nice to just get us into the spirit of the precepts, to chant them in their original version. And Jaume and Casper may want to join in with me if you can remember the words. I don't think anyone else will know them. So I'll do the Sanskrit first and just listen to it and just enjoy the kind of the language, and then I'll read them out in English. So, Pāli— what did I say? Sanskrit. Apologies. Pāli. Very well remembered. Such a beautiful tune, isn't it? And people have been doing that for thousands of years, chanting those words in that, in that form, or slightly different form. So the translation that I have here, and of course different people will translate it in a different way, it's 5 precepts. I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures. I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct. I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech. And I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness. So these are the kind of the original precepts that have been translated and taken up by different Buddhist schools in different forms, and I'll introduce Bright Earth's form in a little while. I just wanted to kind of, before we go on to talk about how hard they are to keep, I want to talk about why we should aim to keep them. Why should we, why should we live an ethical life? What's the point? So I think probably the most obvious point, which is really why they were introduced, is that they are of benefit to others, that it is of benefit to others when we live an ethical life. That my, my nan moving the object back to where it was meant that someone that had a busy day working in the supermarket didn't have to schlep it back to where it should have been. And that, um, that Dave's silence meant there was a bit less unskillful speech happening. In the, in the room. So maybe if, you know, someone had walked in and their name was being mentioned, that might have just been a little bit less likely to happen, and that Lizzie was contributing to less animal suffering. So that is really, I guess, the primary reason for us being ethical, is that it It helps other people. It is a way of— it's a way of being kind. It's a way of knowing when I'm not being kind and trying to be kinder. Um, it's also— and, and it's taken me quite a long time to really understand this— it's also really good for us. In various ways. Um, one of the, the massive surprises to me when I did become vegan, many years after having the example of Lizzie and other people who I knew, is how much it made me feel good. I'd really expected that— I'm really— food's really important to me. It's one of my top 3. I just expected that when I became vegan, I would enjoy my food a little bit less. I just thought that that was just the deal, and, uh, I was willing to, to suffer that. Um, the big surprise for me was not only did I enjoy my food more, but I felt different about eating. I felt good. I felt good in a way that I didn't know that I was feeling that until it changed, if that makes sense. Um, and I also understand all these years later that Dave probably— he wasn't feeling— he didn't have a smug look on his face, he didn't look smug, but my guess is that he felt better just not engaging in that, in that gossip. In that kind of, uh, being, you know, being a bit mean about other people. Um, so I'm not talking about smugness. I'm talking about something, and you might be able to sense this in yourself, something about a kind of feeling of wholesomeness or a feeling of freedom or feeling of rightness. Um, or even just the absence of the feeling of ickiness. Because I think that, that when we're doing the things that we know that we shouldn't really be doing, we have— I have a sense of ickiness. I might be in denial about that for a long time, but it's still— the ickiness is in there somewhere. So it benefits others and it benefits ourselves. I'm just conscious I'm doing lots of hand movements. I hope that's not too much for people on the video. Maybe I should just I'll just put them down here. So the other thing that precepts are good for is, is the, the reason that I shared earlier, that, that they're good for our spiritual life, um, that they allow us to create the kind of conditions that are conducive to a maturing of our spiritual life. Um, they allow us to become more awake. Uh, do I want to say any more about that? Feels like a complicated one. I guess that, um, I guess that we're always taking— to just use this old story that comes from 12 Steps— that we're always taking a step towards our compulsions and addictions and entanglements, or we're taking a step towards our higher power. I really hate that because I really just want to be able to at least stay still. But, but the idea is that whenever we do anything, we're either moving moving in a direction of fear, or we're moving in a direction of love. And precepts help us to know the difference between those two. Precepts show us the kind of— the kind direction. And as we move towards love, I would say we are also moving towards the Buddha, towards God, towards whatever it is in the universe that good. Um, and I don't want to leave the planet out. Um, one of the things that's important to us here at Bright Earth is the Earth, and living an ethical life, um, helps us to live more lightly on the Earth, which I'm hoping I don't need to sell that one to anyone at the moment, that if we are conscious of our taking what is not freely given, then we maybe don't consume so much. Or if we are conscious of, uh, not becoming intoxicated, then maybe we don't make unwise choices that then— I don't know where this example is going to end— maybe we get drunk and just I don't know, hurt some plants or something. But, but the, the having a clear mind helps us to, uh, to not, to not affect our environment in, in a way that's, um, worse than it, than it can be, than it should be. So precepts are good for others, us, our spiritual path, and the Earth. So as I, um, mentioned the various, uh, I've kind of shared a few little examples of precepts and how we might break them or not break them. I'm wondering if anyone in the— anyone who's listening to me has already felt a little bit of what I felt when Dave was silent in the in the break room. It may be that you're— if you're all perfectly ethical people, then why are you here? So my experience is that I break the precepts constantly. I break the precepts constantly, and not always in big ways. Um, but in subtle ways that, that have an effect, that have an effect on who's around me, on myself, on the Earth. So let's just have a little run through just to make you all feel better about yourselves. I'll share some of my failings. So the first precept is that we shouldn't kill, we shouldn't take life. I am in a personal battle against fungus gnats in, in our house, small little black flies that come out of houseplants and like to breed thousands of babies. And a few months ago it got to a point where every morning the first thing I would do before anything else is kill 20 fungus gnats. I'm actually going to give a talk, um, about not taking life for a colleague, Lien, Reverend Lien, in a, in a few weeks. And, and my talk will be mainly talking about the fungus gnats. Um, and when I garden, I'm causing death to some little insects that are in the garden. When I strike a match, whenever I strike a match, which I've done already today, I'm— I don't know how you pronounce it, but isinglass, which is the bit that glues the match head to the wood, is made of fish bladders. So as a vegan, it's actually very difficult to— you either use a plastic thing or you use something that was in a fish. So it's very— it's impossible to not take life. And we could take— we could expand that precept to think about things like killing off other people's enthusiasm, or when we put people down, we're killing something. There's something about killing things off, extinguishing life around us. Um, but actually, from all the five, I kind of feel like one is the one that I can maybe do the best. I don't have— I don't tend to kill people. Hopefully we can all share that. So the second, to take what is not freely given. Here we get into territory that is endlessly, uh, troublesome. When we're in a conversation with someone, we might talk and get carried away with how much we talk, and we might take the time of the person that we're talking to without them freely giving it. If we're not quite checking in, um, we might, um, We might go to a museum and really enjoy it and just not put any money in the box that's there. That's allowed, it's not illegal, but we're taking something that someone is having to put money in that box, someone is having to support. Should I say we might come to practice and not put any money in the bowl? Is that a bit, bit close to that we— there are these kind of subtle ways that we, that we just take advantage a little bit. It might be of someone else's kindness. It might be someone that, that puts themselves out in a way that's actually a bit harmful for them, but we just kind of keep saying, yes, thank you, I'll have that, because we don't really feel able to say, no, actually, that doesn't feel fair, because I know you're tired and I don't know, it's my turn. And money and possessions, and maybe we buy too much from the supermarket and then we have to throw some away. Taking what is not freely given, it's a biggie. The third one, sexual misconduct. Um, really, when we talk about sexual misconduct, we're talking about non-consensual sexual activity. So we're not talking about a particular kind of sexual activity that is not skillful, but we're talking about how is this for all the people involved. Is there power involved? What's the history of this, you know, of our relationship with this person? Um, are we, uh, are we both on the same page in terms of what this is that we're doing. And it, and it can also involve making other people feel uncomfortable by flirting in a particular way or using our sexuality to get things. Maybe, you know, maybe kind of— I know that women especially have been trained in using their sexuality to get a bit of power, because it's like one of the only ways we've had. So we can maybe flirt— I can own this— flirt with the, the man that's in power and then get a bit of power that way. So it, it can be subtle again. Number 4. Oh God, number 4. Wrong speech. This is probably my Worst? Wrong speech. Unskillful speech. I sometimes think that if we were really skillful, we'd hardly say anything at all ever. We just go around saying, "I love you," only when we meant it. Yeah, unskillful speech is what we were doing when Dave was quiet. I don't think there's a problem in checking in with someone and sharing something that's troublesome to you about someone else in a confidential space. And yeah, I know I'm thinking about Ramphani here, who's much better at this than me, but maybe it's okay to just have a little bit of a bitch sometimes, just in a very private kind of contained way, just as a way of letting off steam. You can see I'm still working on this one. But unskillful speech can incorporate all kinds of different things. It might be giving feedback when we haven't been asked for feedback. It might be offering advice when we haven't been asked for advice. It might be just feeling a little bit annoyed when we email someone and the annoyance just kind of slips into the communication. It might be Fibbing a little bit, or a lot. Many, many ways that we can be unskillful in our speech. And then finally, intoxication. So yeah, intoxication, drinking, smoking, drugs. I'm lucky I never did those things. I think it's good because I'm a control freak, uh, rather than any virtuous purpose. But even so, intoxication can be— sometimes when I get overexcited, I'm not that skillful because I just get kind of excited, so maybe talk over people or do things a bit rash. We might be intoxicated by power. We might be intoxicated by— I'm thinking about the Buddha saying that you shouldn't really go to fairgrounds, or you can get intoxicated by that kind of entertainment. So intoxication is really anything that sort of really impairs our ability to make wise decisions. Okay, so I feel a little depressed now. And I guess that I'm sharing these examples with you to lead us into the good news, which is that we're not alone in breaking the precepts continually, and there is help. There are things that we can do that will help us. So what will help us? So I'm going to introduce our form of the precepts, which many of you will know. And again, just to give us an experience of really connecting into those precepts, if you would like to, we'll do them in call and response as we do in practice, so you can repeat after me. If you don't want to sign up to these precepts, then you can recite them in support of other people signing up to them. So with faith in the Four Refuges, and in light of our human tendencies, I pray that I may become aware of when I take life. I pray that I may become aware when I take what is not freely given. I pray that I may become aware— when I fall into sexual misconduct— I pray that I may become aware of when I fall into wrong speech— I pray that I may become aware of when I become intoxicated. So why do we break the precepts? Before we look at what might help us, why, why do we break them? Um, and, and my experience of why I break precepts is it always comes down to one thing, which is that I don't have enough faith. And another way of saying that is that I'm afraid. So something that I'm afraid of. So when I kill the fungus gnats I don't know if that's a good example because I think probably I need to kill the fungus bats. When I— what example will I use? When I gossip, when I gossip about other people, it's because I don't really feel good enough about myself without other people just being a bit rubbish in some way. And so gossiping about them sort of relieves that in me. It relieves that fear that I'm not really okay as I am, and it kind of discharges a little bit of that fear. I don't have faith that I am okay and that they are okay, and that they do unskillful things and that I do unskillful things, and that we are both lovable as we are, we're both accepted as we are. I'm just— and I'm just wondering if— I'm just wondering if I need to say more about that kind of what how that actually works, that, that, um, that we break the precepts because we don't have faith or because we're afraid. Maybe I'll just think of another example. So I don't give more money to charity because I'm afraid that if I give more money, I won't have enough for myself. I won't have enough to— not to pay my mortgage, but to buy expensive chocolate or go on holiday or go out for meals. And I, and I, I need that to feel better about myself. So there's a fear, there's a fear that I, that I won't be okay unless I kind of hold on to my money. I don't trust, I don't trust the world. And of course, you know, we shouldn't give all our money to charity and then not be able to pay our mortgage. But what I'm talking about is that, that, you know, that amount that I could easily give but I don't because of fear. Another reason why it's really hard to keep precepts is that no one else does. So if everyone's gossiping about someone, it's actually really hard to be quiet. I think that's why Dave's behavior stays with me, because it was a really brave thing that he did to just not join in, to not even nod, to not, to not disparage us, but to not participate. And we all engage in all kinds of things as a society that are unskillful, you know, which is understandable because life is tough. Um, we're all using too much petrol. We're all, we're all using too much energy in this country. Um, but everyone else does. I, I was going to say I don't need a car, and then a part immediately said, no, you definitely need a car. I would survive without a car, but it would make my life a lot more complicated. I don't want to get a bike. I'm already having— there's a part that's really panicked. I'm going to get rid of the car. I'm not going to get rid of the car. I could get rid of the car. We often— don't often, but we drive at the weekend to go and see things and to walk the dogs, and we don't need to do that. We don't need to have a house as big as we have. We have a lovely house. Um, all of these ways in which we're, we're just doing what everyone else is doing, and, and that maybe there is a more ethical way of living. Um, and it's thorny, isn't it, because because if we were to live— I sometimes say to people, if you want to live the perfectly ethical life, kill yourself, put yourself on the compost. That's probably the most, you know, how the world will benefit the most in terms of, certainly in terms of you not using carbon. Or you could say, well, why don't we just, you know, we'll get a bowl like the Buddha and we'll just have a robe each, and we'll just eat just what we need and live in a little hut. I don't think that's what the Buddha wanted for us. The Buddha used to have some great— get some great feasts from lay people. Those feasts he got sound amazing. I think he wanted lay people so we could like do good feasts. And you know, we need people to make things and to have occupations that keep everything going. He didn't want everyone to become a monastic. He valued lay people, and he valued lay people that were generous and that looked after the monks and that, you know, lived kind lives whenever they could. So the middle way is really important here, and I'm saying this as much for myself as to you, that I'm certainly prone to a kind of asceticism, but I think that I ought to be more and more down this end. The Buddha tried that, the Buddha tried asceticism, didn't work out for him. He went back to the Middle Way. So with precepts, we're not aiming for perfection, we're aiming for the Middle Way. Um, but it is true that it is very difficult to keep precepts, and it's very difficult for lots of really good reasons. Um, the, uh, the other thing that makes it hard to keep precepts is that we are so vulnerable. We are such fallible creatures. We're impermanent. And we want to find ways of shoring ourselves up, shoring up our identity, shoring up our self-esteem, um, shoring up our sense of security, physical security. And some of the breaking of the precepts is like sneaky ways of doing that. It's like sneaky ways of getting a bit more stuff or a bit more praise or all of those kinds of things. So I will move on to how we can, uh, how, how we can help ourselves to keep the precepts, um, without beating ourselves up, because beating ourselves up is not helpful. So the first thing, there's, there's four 4 things, or 5 things. We can associate with people who are also interested in keeping the precepts, and that is what we're doing here today. I'm guessing that you came to the talk not because you wanted to learn how to break them better, maybe partly that, but because you were interested in what does it mean to live an ethical life and how can we do that. So We do that in this community, and other communities do it too— other spiritual communities, other communities. I'm thinking about activist communities, or, uh, I don't know, gardening communities, or any communities where there's this kind of shared sense of, you know, we've come together here because we want to do something good. We want to— therapeutic communities, 12 steps, people who want to be kinder. It's so much easier to do those things or to think about those things or to reflect on those things when we have even one person that's interested in doing that with us. And it's not a common conversation, I don't think, down the pub. I don't really go down the pub, but I I'm guessing that not many people go down the pub and go, 'Oh, so how'd you do with your fourth precept today?' I don't think that's the kind of thing that gets talked about. So we gather with, with as many people as we can who are also interested in, in heading towards keeping the precepts. This second one feels really important to me, and it is the line that Sujjatin, our that Satya Robyn offered us for the form of precepts that we use here, "In light of my human tendencies." It's such a delicious line because it reminds us before we even go to those things that we're meant to be doing, that we're doing this in light of our human tendencies. And again, I can't speak about you and your human tendencies, my human tendencies are are to self-protect, to, uh, to shore up, to, to push things away, to be greedy, to be in denial. But that is the reality of how it is to be human. And so we approach the precepts with that as a foundation, that that's, that's like a kind of— that's a given, is in light of my human tendencies This helps us to be softer with ourselves, because especially if we're someone that's already prone to being self-critical, engaging with the precepts can really make that worse. I'm still doing lots of hand movements. The third is that we can do what the precepts ask us to do, that we can pray that we may become aware of when we break them, because we will break all of them at some point. And there's a real difference between an unconscious taking of what is not given, for example, and a conscious taking of what is not given. That doesn't guarantee that we're going to be able to not take what is not given, but it moves us from, from kind of acting out, I guess, we're just a sort of unconscious being in the world, into a place where we can make choice. We might not be able to make a choice, but we can know that we're not able to make a choice. Even that is helpful. So even if we're, we're powerless to change something, we can know that we're powerless to change it right now. And that's really crucial. Self-awareness is massively important when we do feel that we are unable to change. We can, especially then, but also anytime, we can lean into refuge. So in this tradition, we have four refuges. We take refuge in the Buddha, the Buddha's teaching, the community, and the earth. And we know that these things are steady. We have an experience over time of these things holding us and um, helping us to be calmer and more patient. Um, and when we experience that refuge, we're more likely to be able to make free choices about those difficult things. Something I do that I find really helpful too is if I'm not able to make a good— I'm not able to stop doing something that's harmful, I will ask the Buddha to help me with that, or I'll hand it over to the Buddha. I'll say, look, I'm not able to do this right now. I'm handing it over to you. Please just help me in whatever way you see fit. And then just wait. And then finally, something that's really important in this community is that we begin to have an experience of being accepted just as we are. And I want to really juxtapose those two things, that we break the precepts all the time in myriad of ways. The Buddha sees that, and the Buddha accepts us just as we are, because the Buddha really gets why we're breaking the precepts. The Buddha really gets it, and the Buddha feels sad when people break precepts because the Buddha doesn't want unkindness in the world. The Buddha doesn't want harm and violence, and the Buddha knows that we are doing the best we can, and that in order to change, it's much more helpful to be met and understood and feel cared for than it is to have somebody criticizing us. And I, I believe that so deeply. Um, even people or parts of us that are doing the worst things. And of course we need boundaries, of course we need to say no, and, and we need prisons, and we need, you know, we need to contain behavior sometimes. But if we can get curious about why is this happening, why are those precepts being broken,. I read a really beautiful book about, um, it was a horrific book, but it was a book about the prison population in America and how massively increased it is, and how, um, how it's, uh, how it's a part of, um, you know, colonization and racism and poverty and all kind of gets stirred in, and then everyone gets put in prison. And all of these men, they're trying to escape their shame, that their violence is a response to try not to feel shame that has been put on them by the system and by the fact, you know, by their generations of harm from outside. Um, and, and, and just being able to see it in that way was so helpful to me because it makes perfect sense that shame is so awful to feel, we will do anything to not feel it. And if we grow up and there are these choices, then we take the choice of, of violence and we feel a bit less ashamed. And then of course that perpetuates cycle. But there's, um, there's always good reason. There's always good reason. And the Buddha sees all that. The Buddha sees all of that. The Buddha sees the awful stuff that is happening in the world right now and doesn't condone it and doesn't support it, but gets that it comes from suffering, that it comes from— yeah. Men who have no other recourse to feeling power, to feeling any power at all, than bombing other countries. Um, so I'm going to back away from politics now. Uh, so these 5 things we have a friend or a community of friends who are interested in being more kind and how that plays out in us. We are realistic about our human tendencies. We begin from that position and we maintain that awareness. We become aware of when we do break them. Maybe at the time, maybe later, maybe years later with my not moving my object back in the supermarket. We can take refuge in whatever it is that we take refuge in that is good. That can be Buddhist refuge, and that could be the earth, it could be philosophy, it could be the good of humankind, could be animals. Thank you. About you, Kathy. And we know that we are loved just as we are. Regardless of whether that feels possible or not. So I'm bringing us to a close now. We'll maybe have a little time for questions if there are a couple of questions. Keeping the precepts is a good thing to do. Keeping the precepts is really bloody hard. There are things that we could to do to help us to keep the precepts. And, um, and this is an ongoing process that we come to practice. We don't do practice once here, we do it week after week after week for 11 years. And many, many people have been practicing Buddhism and other forms of practice for millennia because it's an ongoing process. We We investigate ourselves, we see the way we're behaving, we get curious about that, we're kind, we try something a bit different, we heal things that need healing, um, and we move in this direction that the Buddha kind of pointed us towards, which he knew was a good direction to move in. He knew that it would make us happy and would make other people happier. That we try not to take life, we try not to take what isn't given, we try not to be sexually unskillful, we try not to use wrong speech, and we try not to be intoxicated. And when we are intoxicated, we try and manage that the best we can. Um, so just before we finish, maybe you might want to think of one of the precepts that you think you are maybe not so amazing at, and just wonder about how you might apply those 5 things to that, to that area of your life, and how you might gently and lovingly change some of your behavior in that area. It might be a very practical thing, might be a relational thing. I think I'm going to probably look at my donations to charity then. Namomi tabu. Thank you for your ears. You've paid beautiful attention to me. Well, that's what it's looked like. I don't know what's been happening inside your heads, but there's quite a lot to pay attention to something for a long time, so thank you. And does anyone have any questions at all? Got about 5 minutes. We'll finish back towards 2. Or comments?

Satya Robyn.

Yeah. Do you want to say something, Helen?

Um, I'll read out what I wrote. I said, I think my dilemma is about how to balance living ethically— so suicide onto the compost heap in one extreme— with living fully, which is a kind of— I'm beginning to understand— or something to do with the privilege of having a body and, um, and what's involved in living a good and full life. In an ethical way? And I imagine that's very related to the middle way.

Yeah, thank you. What a beautiful question. And it feels really important to, uh, when I, when I think of the Buddha, I think of the smile on his face, and he doesn't look like an unhappy person. So what I'm, what I'm thinking is he's enjoying his life, he's really enjoying life. And I don't think that the Buddha wanted us to, to, to get into self-denial because he, as I said earlier, he tried that and it didn't work. So I think for me, when I am moving towards, uh, kind of ethical behavior that comes from that kind of, I guess, self-energy, or it comes from, uh, sort of Buddha nature, it, it's both. It's like I'm really enjoying my whatever it is, but I'm not wanting double because I'm full when I've had enough. Um, or I get it and I actually feel like, oh, I don't really want this, I want to give it to someone else today. Um, so I think for me those two things are less in conflict than we might think, and that sometimes when I do want more, it's because there's that fear in me, that, that sort of wanting to, to kind of hold on to things, and it's not a sort of a free pleasure. Does that make sense? Yes, that's very helpful. Thank you. And I'm also thinking of a book that I really love by my colleague Kim Allen about, um, renunciation. I wish I I can't remember the name of it. You can't remember the name of it. Kim Allen, who's written a book about renunciation, and it's just written really beautifully because it kind of explains how renunciation is a pleasure. It's, it's not actually a denial. Um, that's, that's what— that's the kind of spiritual life I'm interested in, is, is the kind of spiritual life where the Buddha gets to go and feast, but he doesn't eat so much that he feels terrible the next day, and he's very grateful. And he doesn't start expecting priests. So I think that's where we need to be somehow, is we need to really enjoy what the world has got to offer. It's gorgeous day here in Melbourne, the sun is out. Um, it's, it's, it feels like it's not spiritually good to not enjoy that. Um, like we need to really enjoy our lives, and when we do that in line with the precepts, we don't take more than is ours to take.

Yeah, so it's kind of about not grasping.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, just, just being aware of when that does come in and not being unkind to ourselves when it does, because it will, because we're human with human tendencies. Thank you, thank you, thank you, lovely question. Very quick question, if not we will finish. Okay, I think we will probably pause there. If you do have anything urgent, you can always let me know. Thank you again for being here. Namaste. And now I think we need to— it's our duty to go and enjoy the sunshine in, uh, on the hills or whatever it is you're doing today. So yeah, thank you very much for your attention. Yeah, namaste.