In this episode of BBC Best Bits, host Scott McInnes talks with former Google Chief Diversity Officer Waymo Hoover and leadership expert Peter Docker about the challenges of creating equitable, diverse, and inclusive workplaces and how belonging fuels responsibility. Waymo argues that good intentions alone are insufficient; organizations need rigorous diagnostics—hiring and leadership statistics, employee resource groups, assistance programs, and culturally‑competent counseling—to identify where they fail and to embed DEI into everyday management practices. She stresses that leaders must first examine their own biases, educate themselves, and create ongoing dialogue and accountability mechanisms, rather than treating DEI as a one‑off program. Peter illustrates the power of belonging through a relatable story about a teenage daughter’s laundry, showing that when people feel they belong, they voluntarily take responsibility, which is more effective than imposed accountability. He extends the analogy to military contexts, recounting his experience in the Iraq War and the Royal Air Force, where genuine personal care for individuals and their families built trust and motivated people to risk their lives for the team. Both guests emphasize low‑effort, high‑impact actions—personal notes, unexpected phone calls, small gifts—that sustain belonging, especially in hybrid or remote settings. The conversation weaves together structural DEI metrics, leader self‑reflection, the psychology of belonging, and concrete caring practices, offering a roadmap for organizations seeking sustainable cultural change.
Chapters
Diversity gets measured, belonging gets felt, but what actually creates it in an organization? In this episode of BBC Best Bits, we'll delve back into episodes 72 and 77 to hear about structural DEI accountability at Google from Waymo Hoover, and belonging as a fundamental human need in teams from Peter Docker. What do you think are some of the biggest barriers to creating equitable, diverse, and inclusive cultures in organizations?
Yeah, that's an interesting question because I truly felt, having worked as a Chief Diversity Officer in this space, you know, for over 13 years, the biggest barriers is the desire to do good and thinking that just saying and communicating what you want to do—
Is enough.
Is enough, right? And then saying, now go forth. Everyone go forth and change. That is the biggest barrier. And what I say is that it's great, right? Because the intention is there, the desire to change. But I think it is very naive to think that just having a platform, as you said, with your blacking out your, Internet screens. Yeah. Social media to support. It is very naive to think that that alone will actually sustain. What is needed is really a true diagnostic and a true look at where are we failing? What do our hiring stats look like? What do our leadership teams look like? What are they— what are the complement of them? Are we able to really harness the impact of our millennials and Gen Y? Do we see input from them? Are we understanding the conditions of our Asian employees that are now facing xenophobia and hate crimes? Our, our Black employees that have now are suffering the trauma of the racial injustice? What spaces are we creating, not only from a saying it at a town hall, but understanding it in our teams, creating parallels and pathways that people can communicate, whether it's through employee resource groups and having platforms to educate and communicate to the organizations, whether it's through employee assistance programs, Mm-hmm. where you're looking at how are we supporting our employees through this? How are we ensuring that we have racially diverse counselors to support? And whether it's through bringing your leadership groups together and saying, this is what our expectations are. This is what we are going to be expecting. And this is what we— if we don't see these behaviors, this is how it's going to be mitigated. It really has to be intentional and has to show up in practice. And I think the biggest barrier when the intention is there, but there is a naivety around how to drive that in truly sustainable ways that quite frankly, with success, looks like is that you are now evolving your culture. You are now evolving the expectations that it no longer has to be set out as a program or a tactic, but yet thereby harnessing and shifting the way that you manage, shifting the way that you assess talent, shifting the way that you have dialogues around the engagement and the involvement of all your employee base in meaningful ways.
And what role do leaders play in that? Because for me, and I've said this a billion— there are people now listening to this podcast throwing their eyes to the heavens and going, oh, not again. The leaders in organizations are, for me, the most important people in organizations because they're the ones that rightly or wrongly we look up to, up the hierarchy, up the pyramid, to see what they're doing. And what they're doing, we'll then do.
Absolutely.
What do they need to be doing? What do those leaders need to be doing in order to move the needle in this whole area?
Absolutely. And I couldn't agree with you more, Scott. Leaders need to first look at themselves. Before you can change your environment, you have to look in the mirror and actually see, what am I grappling with? What are the things that I know or maybe not know, but take the step to educate, to understand what are the obstacles or some of the things that they need to come to terms with? Because quite frankly, that is where you have the disconnect we talked about earlier. around the intention, but the integrity, because they don't match in the actions. And I think leaders start with— and this is a lot of the work that I'm doing right now with my executive coaching— with understanding, how do I, how do I feel? How do I show up? And what are the things that I need to educate and inform myself? And then create that space and environment for dialogue. I think that that is the most important second thing to do outside of leaders really doing that reflective internal look around where they are, what are their, some of their challenges and how they can work through. It's creating the space for dialogue and exchange, and then going to the accountability. Right. If you're looking at, what am I looking at? My, how am I ensuring my leadership reflects what I'm expecting from diversity, equity, inclusion? What am I doing to, to understand and recognize where those groups that may not have the network, the sponsorship, the advocacy? How am I ensuring that they get visibility so that their talents can be assessed, so that their talents can be discovered? What am I also making sure that I actually am tacking down and pulling through what may not come naturally? Because we know the systems, right, as if what they are, all systems may have some bias in them. Those are the critical things that leaders should be doing. And again, it shouldn't be one time. It should be a part of your management one-on-one basics that now has to be present, I think, in all teams, in all leadership forms.
I see it as a leader's role, someone who's responsible for a lot of people and chooses to lead. It's their role to nurture this sense of belonging. So let me give you an example why this is really important. You have a teenage daughter, don't you?
I do. 2 of them, actually.
Okay. So this is so going to resonate with you, Scott. So here's one of the greatest leadership challenges that many of us all face. How do you get your teenage daughter to put her dirty laundry in the washing basket?
Oh, you stopped doing it for her?
Well, would she do it herself generally?
No, not generally, no.
So, you know, we can try all sorts of carrot and stick, uh, approaches, but chances are they won't regularly put it— put the dirty laundry in the basket. But let's change the context. How about this coming weekend, she's going out with her friends. And she wants to wear her favorite outfit. Will she put her laundry in the basket then to get it washed?
She will.
She might even wash it herself.
Why?
Because she wants to feel that she belongs to her group of friends. Now, this is the point, because when we scale that up into business or any team, the nirvana, if you like, is where people are choosing to step up and take responsibility. And taking responsibility is very different from people being made accountable. When our kids were young, they all played out on the street outside because it was an enclosed space and it was safe. And they played with their neighbors' kids. But if we saw a car coming along or a stranger we didn't recognize, we'd go out. We'd have accountability for our own children, but we would choose to take responsibility for our neighbors' children.
Why?
Well, because we belonged to the community. And so we wanted to step up and take responsibility. And so it is in an organization. If we want people to start to step up and lead themselves and do more than perhaps what they are contracted to do, then we need to have them feel that they belong, that they fit, they have a role to play. And the way we do that is simply by caring. And this goes beyond empathy, but what I'm talking about is truly caring. for our people. And that doesn't actually take that much time. During the Iraq War of 2003, I had 200 people over in the Saudi desert and we were flying large unarmed, undefended aircraft that carried fuel and we refueled other airplanes. But the vast majority of my time of the several months out there, I spent just checking in on an individual basis with my people, checking to see, you know, how you doing today? How are things at home? You know, now I did it out of genuine curiosity and care for my people, because that, that goes on to have them feel that you've got their back as well. Yeah, so when people feel they belong, they will step up. And so that's one of the most important things I believe in leadership and leading a team.
And that does not come naturally to many, many leaders. And I know that during the past 18 months of COVID and lockdowns and people working at home and even moving forward into hybrid working, you know, I've been saying to teams, it's the very simplest of things. It's a postcard in the mail to say, I'm thinking about you. It's knowing that Peter's favorite chocolate bar is a, you know, a Whole Nut and just sticking one in an envelope with a Post-it note on it saying, I was thinking of you. Yeah, here's a bar of chocolate.
Absolutely.
Ringing somebody up out the blue Not to talk about work, but just to simply say, how are you really? How are you getting on? How are the family?
That's all.
No work stuff, no nothing, just that. But it doesn't come naturally to people.
No, it doesn't. But you know, there are huge parallels for those of us who are parents, you know, because we want our kids to feel we care for them and they belong. And even though they grow up and leave home, there's still a place for them. You know, there's still room for them. Um, and it's exactly the same in companies too, you know. And this isn't about forcing anything, it's just about that human connection.
Hmm.
And these days where it's hybrid working or we don't get together very often, it's even more important to do this, you know. Um, and during my time in the, the military, I, I had people deployed all over the world Um, some cases in my career, times in my career. Um, but I, I went to great ends to, to make sure that they, they knew that I was watching out for them.
And it's even probably more important in that scenario where you're abroad, where you're in a battle zone, where you're in the desert, where you're so far metaphorically and physically away from home.
Yeah, it is. Um, you know, one of the things that we're always taught, um, in the Royal Air Force was when you're out on deployment somewhere, then perhaps in a combat situation or in a humanitarian relief situation where it's still tough, then one of the most important things is making sure that the people you have, their families back home, are taken care of. During the Iraq War, I sent back, I think, no less than 3 people whose grandparents, one of the grandparents had passed away or was about to pass away. And we would move heaven and earth to get them back in time, no expense spared. And it's not something we talked about particularly, because it was just one of the things that you did.
It was the right thing to do.
It is. And one last thing on the military side as well, Scott, I mentioned that side, because when we're talking about caring for our people, some folks listening might get the impression it's all a bit tree-huggy and a bit soft and whatever. Well, no, it's not. Because I know this from having been in fairly extreme situations where people are choosing to put their lives on the line for others. And they do that because they know that their leaders have got their backs, that they belong, and they choose to do it, not because they're ordered to do it. So what works in extreme situations works in the normal business environment too. It's just in those extreme situations, it strips away everything else that doesn't really matter and you get to the nub.
Thanks for listening. If you want to hear these interviews in full, you'll find links to each one in the show notes. And for more on Inspiring Change and the work we do, just pop along to inspiringchange.ie.
