Case Study: Gemi Hartojo, Coach for Muslim Women Entrepreneurs

Hey everyone, Scott here with one of my favorite clients, Gami. Thanks for coming on. Please tell me. Yeah, it's great to have you. So, um, would love to begin by just having you share a little bit about yourself and your business and, you know, what it is that you do.

Yeah, so I am Gami Hartoyo and I help Muslim entrepreneurs get out of their own way and make decisions so that they can build, um, a purposeful business and a purposeful life.

Yeah. And so, uh, just real quick, Gimihartojo, what's the website that people can go to learn more?

Uh, gimihartojo.com. It's G-E-M-I-H-A-R-T-O-J-O.com.

Yeah. So I'm just— I wanted that shared because I want folks to, to check out— you have an extraordinary website. You will make a huge difference. You're done such a beautiful job of articulating your offer and your audience, and it can be really instructive for people just to go check out Gumi's work and see what she's up to. Tell us a little bit about what your challenge was before we started working together.

Okay, so my challenge was exactly the chapter in your book, Seneca. Yep, that was the pinnacle of my situation. I had done all the stuff. How about that? I done— I done all of it, and I was about to do the last one, which is the writing the book piece. And I realized when we first got on that I didn't even have a sales strategy. How interesting is that? I was a bit gobsmacked, actually. I was, I was really surprised with myself. I'm like I have an extensive marketing and business background, and I realized I got caught up with the stuff.

Yeah, well, just for context for people tuning in, Gumi is referring to Seneca's barbell. It's an idea that comes from ancient Stoic philosophy back in the Roman Empire, but Nassim Taleb in his book Fooled by Randomness unpacks this idea a little bit more. And the idea basically is You know, when you have an idea that has potential and you want to turn it into a proven asset that's actually earning you money, you know, you want to get— you want to move across that barbell as quickly as possible. And what many coaches, especially independent coaches that are kind of following the, the, all the, the advice, uh, by the gurus, the experts, and the charlatans, is they have to do all the things, right? They have to do all things and make sure they have the t-shirt. So you need the logo and the website and an opt-in and a lead magnet. You need to build your list. You need to have a YouTube channel, Instagram strategy, you need to be posting content on social media all over the place all at once, and you need many workshops and webinars and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Turns out what happens is you create a full-time job out of just managing all these things that haven't become proven assets yet. And I love what you said, Gami, because, you know, you have this background and, you know, I, I certainly had that feeling of, I should have known better when I caught myself in the middle of the barbell. And that's the beautiful thing about working together is, um, you know, just when, like, when I'm working with my coach, she helps me see the things that are right in front of me that I probably put there myself that I can't, you know, that I, that I wasn't able to see until she highlighted them. And now I can't unsee them.

Yes.

And that's, that's the magic of, you know, our work together is once you saw it, you couldn't unsee it. You did an extraordinary job of doing something about it. Along those lines, you know, you, you obviously are a skilled coach yourself and have worked with other coaches in the past, I'm sure. Why did you decide at that time, or at this time to start working with me?

A couple things, right? Number one, I trust you. I have worked with you in the past, in my past lives where we were with Seth, right? And so that's one. The other thing is that I think you really struck a chord with that particular post. And it had something to do, and I can't quite remember exactly what it is, but it did talk about kind of like shortening it, shortening some sort of something. And I think it had to do with the Seneca Barbell, where it's just like, stop the stuff and just do the thing. And what's the right next thing? And I'm like, yeah, that's what I need. Because I could feel the swirl, but you know when you're in the middle of the swirl, you're like, woo, you just couldn't get out. And it was a lifeline in a way where you just kind of, you had that post, which you teach, and it just kind of like called at me. And I literally made that decision like, like, no, no, I got to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. So just for context, again, Gamiya and I are old friends from— old friends in digital years. Gamiya is still very young. But we are old friends from my time as a head coach at Akimbo Workshops, and which is our programs that were created by Seth Godin. And, you know, I you always stood out to me. I think I shared this with you. I remember when, when you were in Freelancers Workshop, maybe. Yeah, I was thinking, you know, that's someone I would really like to work with someday. And that was probably 3 or 4 years ago. So it was when you, when you pinged me and we had that conversation, I was so thrilled. And I love also what you shared, because the whole point of my coaching is I don't want to be anyone's coach for life. I want to be a coach for as little time as necessary so that You can move on and do your thing. I'm just providing a compass that will help you continue to navigate. And of course, you've continued to be in the community, which, you know, hopefully has been, uh, continued to be helpful. But the, the trick is, I think what you were referring to is, you know, what, what I am trying to do with my clients is what's essential and how can we learn to do that more effortlessly. Because your business, your coaching business, should not have you spending more time on marketing and sales than it does doing the work that you love, which is the, the actual making a difference as a coach. And I think for anybody out there, if you reflect on how much of your time is spent doing what you love—coaching—and how much is spent doing what you hate—sales, marketing, content grinding and creation and so forth—if there's—if If the latter is more than the former, you need to rethink your approach and come at things with a first principles reasoning. So tell us, Gami, a little bit about what's happened since our time working together.

Well, I took the first principles, the next right thing. I threw away Seneca's barbell. I got super clear. On my audience, which I, I knew who my audience is, but to just to take another gander, right? To get super, even super, super, super clear. Created the avatar and as well as what did I— I created the sales strategy. I created a post and it just kept going and I launched my accelerator and people signed up. Go figure. I will tell you, and I hope— I don't know if my people know this, but actually I think they know this. Um, I sold actually this accelerator before I actually built the program, which is really awesome because, um, and I, and I paced it out in such a way I had a lot of material anyway, so I just repurposed it and reused it again. But, um, going back to Seneca's Barbell and the lowest hanging fruit take what you got, reuse it, repurpose it, um, and, and just see if people are gonna resonate. If they don't, then they don't, right? You, you learn something. So here I am. Um, I am hopefully to bring on one on the several who came on board, and, uh, I have people raising their hand for session 2. And I'm just coordinating time when I'm going to be flying back to restart that. So it's quite, quite interesting. I will say being able to manage ourselves and not do too much really does help, actually. So thank you. That's the big, big takeaway for me. It's like, Less is more.

Less is more. Yeah. I love that reflection because I really did intentionally put some of that— well, the content that's in the Welcome Series is intended not to just make you a better at your, you know, coaching business, but to make you a better human being, because better human beings become better coaches and become better business people as well. So I appreciate you sharing that. And also, I just want to reflect to me how extraordinary you are. And, and for anybody watching, considering this, um, you know, working with me, the people that succeed in my coaching programs are the people that are ready to actually do the work. And that is not everyone. That is actually very few people are actually ready to— you know, people love to just take programs to take programs. It feels productive. It feels like it's actual real work, but learning that does not lead to action is useless. And you were probably the first one in that cohort, that second cohort, to take the learning and put it into action. I think your accelerator launched during our— yes, it is together. And you had sales, you were recouping the cost of the accelerator even as you were completing the accelerator. And that was extraordinary and not unusual for people that really are proactive and, and go after it. So I just want to reflect how, um, you know, it was beautiful and extraordinary to watch that all happen for you. And tell, tell me, I mean, you've shared a little bit of this already, but so how has life changed for you now that you've learned these principles and put them into practice and have success with your own accelerator program?

Um, okay, I'll say number one thing is it doesn't have to be crazy. You don't have to be crazy, number one. The number two thing is I have learned that I have been beating myself up too much. I think that's a big thing, right? Because by doing that, it's— we're able to now self— I'm able to self-manage. And as you say in your— when your last post, I can't remember what it is. Manage.

What's the word? Maximize and optimize.

It's not only maximize and optimize, but you were saying it's like, don't do everything at once. Oh, gotcha.

Right things, right time, right order.

Yes, right, right things, right time, right order. So it's kind of like, okay, this is all happening, take it all in. It isn't going to be perfect. The people that sign up anyway are calling, have already raised their hands before even seeing me, which is incredible. And I will say, as I'm going through this, even my, my clients are experiencing this. So it's, it's amazing. Yeah, I love that.

I love that. I also love that you reflected how you sold the offer before you, you created the program. And that's a principle that I have been sharing with clients for probably at least 6 years now is, you know, what's the point of building something and then trying to sell it? Because what happens if you don't sell it? And I'm guilty of that, you know, building 5 lesson courses that one person bought for $100. And, you know, for professionals like you and I and anybody that's tuning in that's good at what you do, if you're, if you're, if you're a coach with a kind of signature framework or signature approach to how you make a difference with and for for the people you serve. You can— you should confidently be able to sell something before you actually build the program. And that was— I loved that you kind of validated your offer idea before you actually started to build it. Was really powerful to watch. Where do you think you would be if you had not trusted yourself enough to invest in yourself and the difference only you can make and work together?

Um, I would still be in the middle of Seneca's barbell, deep in it. I'll be holding it. That's where I would be. Um, yeah, that's quite painful. Actually, every time I think about it, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I think we all have the feeling that we've been grinding away in the middle of the barbell for far too long when we wake up to the fact that we don't need to spend any time in the middle of the barbell. And the only thing worse than having done that would be to be continuing to do that. So I appreciate that reflection. So just one final question for, you know, folks are watching these case study videos because they're on the fence about, you know, should I trust this guy? Should I invest in working with this person? And of course, it all begins with just a 15-minute, what I call a catalyst call or diagnostic call. Um, if, if someone is on the fence about whether or not to book that free 15-minute diagnostic call, what, what would you say to them?

I would say trust yourself. And, you know, Scott's got some incredible insight as well as, um, his patients. And, uh, um, the antagonism— what do you say? What do you say? Empathetic antagonism. And empathetic antagonism, that is what you're going to get, and that is what you need, people. So, um, get off your high horse, you know, stop with— get out, stop holding Seneca's barbell, go do the thing, um, and get it done. Seriously, that's what you need to do. Just get it done.

Yeah, I love that. Yes, empathetic antagonism, for, for the uninitiated, is my way of describing how I approach coaching, which is I am going to show you the things that you seen in a way that you can't unsee. And I'm going to get under your skin just enough to get you to take the first step into resolving, solving, or achieving the aspiration that you seek, because nothing happens unless you do the work. So, Yameen, I just so thoroughly appreciate your time and what you've shared here today. You are an extraordinary human. I love the difference you're making with and for female Muslim entrepreneurs. I think it's a powerful offer, and it's making a profound difference in the world. And, um, I just, you know, look forward to continuing to collide with you inside the community and, um, and to just bear witness to the extraordinary achievement that, that you're having with the work that you do.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Scott Perry Perry Perry. It's awesome.