Coffee on Purpose

Well, actually, I have my coffee. Oh, and we're actually live. It actually happened while we were getting our coffee. Go figure. Welcome to Coffee on Purpose. I'm Scott Perry, author of Onward! and Chief Difference Maker at Creative on Purpose. If you're ready to beat burnout and make a bigger difference by making better decisions, go over to creativeonpurpose.com. You can download the free Burnout Solution Guide. And at Coffee on Purpose, we have caffeinated conversations about words that broadly appeal or apply to difference-making. People like us who do things like this, we try to make things better by doing what Seth Godin says, make better things. I'm here with my friend Karina, and, uh, Karina has chosen a really interesting word that I'm going to let her, um, unpack for us after she introduces herself to you. Karina, who are you? What are you up to these days? Where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Well, I'm Karina Balizzi, and I have been a natural products industry executive for 20 or more years building brands that make a difference every day. And so I'm really lucky in that because my passion gets to drive my pursuits and almost every action that I take for work, which is absolutely lovely. But last year in January, I made the choice to start a podcast called Care More, Be Better because I wanted to double down on that and just put more good into the world, talk about things like social impact, sustainability and regeneration, which is a, um, a term that we're going to talk about, but one that I am finding I am kind of in this endless rabbit hole about and seeing more connections between just concepts that I've learned over the years from evolution to biology and more. So that's what we're here to talk about, right? Yeah.

So let's— I always like to just start with let's define the terms that we're talking about in the way that makes sense to us. So when you are thinking about, um, what it means to regenerate, what regeneration means, what does that mean to you?

Well, before I began this last rabbit hole, regeneration simply meant to me to kind of remake or rebuild. And that was how I saw it. I mean, that's when you look it up in Webster's Dictionary, what you'll see. You'll see it defined as remaking or rebuilding something, to regenerate, literally, right? But I interviewed Paul Hawken about the book that you see pictured in the back, Regeneration: Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation. And in the first sentence of the book, he defines it a little differently. He says, regeneration is the act of putting life at the center of every decision we make and every action we take. And when I started to think about regeneration in that way, it kind of sent me into this mind-blown circuit. I felt like I could see the connection between the evolutionary biology that I studied when I was in undergrad to the business processes that I might choose to employ, to the decisions I make in my own household, to my connection to nature and people, to the social systems that we all have agreed are the norm. I mean, it just kind of made all of these things connect together in a way that has set me on an inquisitive path that I'm currently very much enjoying. And also feel like, um, this just inspiration well within me has kind of flowed over into something new.

Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. So tell me one more time the, the definition that you got from the book?

Um, regeneration is putting life at the center of every action we take and every decision we make.

Yeah, really, really fascinating. So I'll be honest, I had to look it up just to make sure that I was thinking about the word in the right way. Um, and there was kind of two definitions that leapt out. One was to, um, regrow or repair tissue, you know. So I think of like starfish that can grow a limb back if, if one gets torn off. And, um, it also brought up imagery of, um, you know, wounds that heal and the scar tissue that forms over them. Um, and then there's this additional definition that I didn't really have as much, um, experience with, which is to be reformed or reborn. Yeah, especially in a spiritual or moral sense. And That to me was really interesting because, um, yeah, in the, in the work that I do, frequently people will talk about, um, making a pivot or, um, reinventing themselves or becoming, you know, being reborn and, uh, rebirthing themselves into some sort of new endeavor or just simply into some new way of, uh, being in the world. And I actually have a really hard time with that because I think of what I have experienced, and through conversation what comes up for me is it's less about kind of exploding who we are and rebuilding ourselves into who, you know, who we want to be now, but it's actually just that we're most of the time on this long arc of becoming. And along the way, we may do that by doing different things and by thinking differently. And, um, and it feels a lot like being reborn, or, um, you know, blowing up one thing and starting anew. But there's usually like a theme or a through line that we're able to discover that makes the whole journey kind of cohere around the again, a theme or just a common idea. What's your experience with that?

Well, I, I really feel like every day I'm seeking to become a better version of myself. And I spend a lot of time in reflection, where I've been, where I might head. What does it mean? What does it all mean? Is my life purpose being fulfilled? Am I doing enough? And often I come up with an answer that's like, well, I may be doing enough, but I could be doing more. And so when I started to really think about— pardon me— this whole concept of regeneration, I felt like two things could happen. One, I could feel a little helpless and like, gosh, this is a lot of work to regenerate myself on an ongoing basis. Or I could look at it really like I'm fueling my body and I'm fueling my brain so that I can continue to grow and improve. And then that effect will come through with other people, and then that effect with those people will come through with others. And so there will be a ripple effect from this time, focus, and attention that I'm spending on a concept that somehow just made everything make sense to me. And so, you know, when I, when I looked at Evolution is a, for example, you know, I studied anthropology and archaeology in my undergrad. I spent a lot of time, um, really studying hominids and primates and, uh, social systems, cultural systems, and kind of the truths that we all agree are somehow, you know, uh, connected and somehow are truths, even if nothing can actually be true. I mean, you can talk philosophically about this for a long time, but it's just the things that we agree are the norms. Really, more than anything. And, um, so one of the, the rabbit holes that sent me down was this, uh, connection to evolution and how different species co-evolve to create systems where they can regenerate along with one another. And so, you know, if you look at how we steward our environments or how different species can coexist to actually create more from less because they have a symbiotic relationship that helps them to basically make a new climate or a new ecosystem. And so really, if you look at life, life is continually regenerating. What we have done as a species is seek to deconstruct all of that and somehow improve upon it by, by deconstructing all of it, somehow create something that is bigger, better, faster, more, but without necessarily really understanding the synergy of all these parts that go together. And so when I, when I like really got into that part of it, I'm thinking, well, heck, so by being deconstructionist, by trying to figure out how everything works, by being super curious, we have boiled things down to these little precise points, but without understanding the whole of the ecosystems and the beauty of nature. The beauty of life. And so I guess that's like, that's where I'm stuck currently. I don't know if it's a stuck place. It's a thinking place.

Yeah, well, what I'm hearing is that, that it feels— sounds a lot like zooming in. And when we zoom in, it's sometimes hard to see the broader context. And you actually were kind of starting off with, when you were talking about your experience, you know, in exploring evolution. And, uh, I think when you and I spoke last week, I mentioned the book by David Sloan Wilson, um, about kind of this, uh, this category of group evolution. Is, is like, it's been around for a while, but it's actually starting— it's always been kind of looked down upon or laughed at. Now people are starting to think a little bit more, um, a little bit more carefully or less critically about like, oh, this might actually be a thing. Like we are actually co-creating our evolution as we go along. And so what's your strat? So when you find yourself like kind of getting lost in the minutia or really in the weeds of the details, What's a strategy that you use to zoom out and gain that broader context?

I think, you know, it's kind of wonder. Like, just going, "Wow, this is incredible. It's amazing. I don't yet really know what to make of it." So what does it look like in the broader context of things? Like, if we're putting regeneration at the decision of every action we take and every decision we make, what does that look like? Well, you know, it means not being overly simplistic in the choices that we might make. So I'll give you a, for example, of something gone horribly wrong. There was a, um, some military tests being done off the coast of one of the Hawaiian Islands on another really unpopulated island. And so they had, were trying to eradicate a specific species of invasive shrubs, so they put some bunnies on the property, and the bunnies ate all the shrubs. And they figured because there was no water source on the island, um, and no freshwater source anyways, and because that freshwater source would be depleted and the rabbits would just somehow die off— well, the rabbits started eating the eggs of some birds that lived on the island to get enough water to survive. And now this endemic species of bird would now be threatened. And so then they decide that they're going to introduce dogs to kill the bunnies. I mean, it's like the little lady who swallowed the fly. I don't know why she swallowed the fly. Perhaps she'll die, right? Like, just keeps going on. And we see these things repeated when we are, are trying to solve a problem without seeing the bigger picture. And so one of the things I've said in management, every time I come into a new job, is that I always seek to understand before I make a decision, before I move forward with an initiative. And I've been at many companies where an executive comes in, usually— and I'm not trying to bash on sales leaders, but often a sales leader comes in and says, "I'm going to show myself to make some quick changes and build something that's meaningful. And so they come in, they, they make some sweeping changes, they hire people that they're familiar with, they let go of old, and then, you know, get some short-term gains, but the long-term effect may not actually be good. And so it's, it's like trying to get people to think about what is going to be the cause? And here's the cause. What's, what's the effect going to be when I take this choice? And look a little bigger. I think that's what we have to do when it comes to climate change. I think that's what we have to do when it comes to our choices in business. And if we're going to even think that a little bit smaller and say choices in my daily life, when I, you know, decide that I'm going to go ahead and save a few cents on this gas by driving all the way across town, you know, what is the reach of that? Is that going to have another negative impact that I'm not intending? You know, perhaps you get stuck in traffic and you waste a bunch of fuel. I mean, it, it's just trying to think things through a little bit more carefully.

And so I love that we can get really tactical in our day-to-day, especially in the digital age when we have so many tools that we can play with and places where we can go spend our valuable time and attention that may or may not actually be, you know, nurturing our well-being or progress in the places where we want to make progress. And so what I'm hearing is the value of having some sort of bigger vision of the world that, or, you know, a greater intention or purpose to what we're doing on our day-to-day. Like, what's the point on the horizon that we're aiming for? What's the big, bold, audacious idea that we're trying to bring into existence? You know, that kind of zooming out to like, you know, one of the things that I'm hearing in what you're saying is this, the importance of asking what's it for, the design thinking question, like, okay, what's it for, right?

Because yeah, what's the real purpose?

Yeah, right, right. So we want to get rid of the, the, the shrubs so we'll get the bunnies, you know, but there, there was no greater like vision for what they were trying to do there. I mean, why get rid of the shrubs in the first place might have been a more interesting question to ask, as opposed to just doing something because you can. It reminds me of a friend of mine that had carved on his guitar, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." Right. That he didn't— just because he could play 100 notes a second or do this, you know, outrageous technique, you know, his point was to put on a good show and to make a meaningful connection with the audience. And so he— it was a way of reminding him that although he had lots of technical ability, it didn't mean anything unless it was serving the greater good of, of going on an adventure with the audience, creating a moment with an audience that was meaningful, that where everyone would walk away feeling a little bit more enhanced and elevated. So what are, what's the big, bold, audacious vision of the world that Karina and Care More Be Better is building?

Well, I'm just trying to remain as optimistic as possible right now. Like, we can actually make the change that we want to. I will say that there are days when I'm less optimistic. But if I was to create the best vision I possibly could. What I would seek to achieve, in part through my podcast, my actions, and those of other activists all around the world, is really a more intentional society. And I think that comes down to people making choices that are mindful of their effect instead of being extractive and consumerist-focused. And I think if we all put on that headset, if we all try to think about what we could do a little bit differently, the change that we could build would be really incredible. And so, you know, that's, I think, what is at the core of this whole concept of regeneration. Like, first we have to ensure that we are healthy and regenerate ourselves physically, emotionally, so that we can arrive, so that we can do the best that we can in a day-to-day basis. And then to take it one step further and say, seek to blow your mind. I was listening to another podcast, um, recently. It's actually SmartLess and very popular, so many people who listen to podcasts have heard of it. But Neil deGrasse Tyson was on and Jason Bateman, and, uh, I think Will Arquette, and I'm forgetting— Sean Hayes. They are the co-hosts, right? So they started to talk about mind-blown moments, and Neil deGrasse Tyson said essentially, um, and I'm paraphrasing because I didn't write it down, but that if your mind isn't blown every week, that you're not learning enough, or you're not— you're doing something wrong. And, um, I will say that through stretches of my life, I have gone into periods of somewhat stagnation where you just do, do, do. And I think that's a less inspiring place to live. And when you're in that spot, you're going to be a lot less likely to keep yourself regenerated and to be able to show up to build the kind of world that you would seek to, to build. I'm hopeful that we could build a utopia where things like artificial intelligence actually make our lives easier. Um, I've been doing a deep dive into the Regeneration book and releasing a new podcast show each Friday on the chapters of the book for those that don't want to sit there and read a 200-page— it's essentially a textbook. It's like an action guide of the things you can do to regenerate systems, from energy systems to food systems to agriculture to clothing and apparel. I mean, on and on and on. So, um, if people want to tune into that, they can learn a lot more about this particular topic.

Yeah, you said something at the beginning of your last series of comments that reminded me of the idea, of an idea that we're really baking into the way we do things at Creative on Purpose, which, you know, is this idea of doing things from the inside out, leadership from the inside out, difference-making from the inside out. And, you know, one of the things that Um, that I, I mean, this is, I think, a way of thinking about regeneration. Like, if people like you, people like me, people like those that tune into a broadcast like this, you know, that are seeking to, uh, make a bigger difference, you know, they're already making a difference. There are people that are generous and thoughtful and very outward-facing, very empathetic, and they give and they give and they give. And oftentimes, um, what happens is they give to the point where they no longer have any of their valuable time, attention, or energy to give. But because their nature is to continue to give, they give until they actually give out. That's what I think burnout really is, is it's a, a signal that you're depleted and you're not refilling your tank. Um, and so this idea that you can do. Have a posture where you're doing it from the inside out. You fill your tank and then you share the overflow and the abundance with others. And if you do that with and for the right people, there's a reciprocity in that cycle. Because if you're doing your work with and for the right people, they are giving back, not in a transactional sense necessarily, but there's like this energetic exchange. Like, that's, I think, what compassion really is, the action of compassion, and why it's so, so much more energizing than the effort of empathy is that there's, there's action and there's a cycle and there's this virtuous exchange going on. Um, I'm just, just kind of rambling a bunch of things that just came off the top of my head. So any, any reflections on, on that?

Well, I just think you're absolutely right. Ultimately, people, if they don't fill their tanks, you're going to run dry. And then what happens then? Like, a complete collapse is not something that most of us ever get to, even if we get close. But I mean, the reality is you need to be happy and fulfilled in your life too. And so if we're again, kind of taking regeneration to mean putting life at the center, your life force is also at the center of that. Your, your ability to remain engaged with life and connected to people, that is very important. So you can't understate that. And I think there's an aspect of mental health that needs to be addressed when it comes to that piece as well. The power of connecting with people who are of similar mind really can inspire you. So reaching out to people who are also trying to live with a similar purpose and be creative with that purpose.

Yeah. Well, and so maybe just a final edge to play with before we wrap up the conversation is what what I'm hearing from what we both just reflected is that, you know, your regenerative work, whatever that is, um, is for some certain, you know, some people it's, and then it's actually not for some other people. In fact, it's probably, um, not for most people and really, um, best practice with, uh, a sustainable small group of people. And so what, what are the, how do you go about establishing those boundaries and guardrails around, you know, what do you, what you do do, what you don't do, who you do it with and for, and who you don't do it with and for?

Well, from a professional perspective, I staked my claim in the sand of really living with purpose for a long time ago. So I pretty much only work with companies and brands that will come with a moral compass and that care about creating a better world and reducing waste and helping people live healthier. That's why I lived in and stayed in the natural products industry, even when opportunities seemed to arise that would draw me out. So for work, I really have just committed to only working with companies that are committed to living with that at their center, being just generally morally good. And trying to think with sustainability practices first to consider regeneration. I am presently working on a project that's quite interesting in the algae space, and I'm not at liberty to really discuss it yet, but the reality is that there are some incredible projects going on around the globe that seek to improve our food and nutrition systems through this way. And then I would say, um, on the aside to that, outside of my work life in the podcast world, I really only want to interview people like yourself that are really trying to make the world a better place, um, be it from a social perspective or really a climate change or activism perspective. I really want to tell the stories that perhaps are not always being told in central frame and to look for a story that could really inspire people to look at what they could do a little bit differently. I mean, that's one of the beautiful, the beautiful things about Paul Hawkins' work in this Regeneration book. There are so many different topics covered that it's almost like you could just pick one that you were passionate about and say, I want to champion this. I'm going to care more about the fashion industry and the choices I make that relate to that, and I'm going to be an advocate for slow fashion and using natural fibers as opposed to synthetics because Petroleum-based clothing is not ideal for our environment and our bodies. So I mean, there's, there's so many choices you can make even within this entire concept to say, this is the thing that's, that I'm going to say matters to me, and I'm going to seek to improve.

Love it. Well, as we're coming to the end of our conversation, Karina, I, is there one final tip, piece of advice, resource that you would direct people to? That are intrigued by this idea of regeneration and something that you would help share to help them weave regeneration into the life that they're already living so that they can do that, so that they can care more and be better, whatever endeavor that they're practicing?

Well, simply put, you have my website up here, caremorebebetter.com. I have been putting quite a lot of effort into this analysis. Of Regeneration. It's, um, essentially like a pretty in-depth book report, but I'm releasing in 20 to 30-minute snips, you know, so less than a half an hour each Friday. There have been 8 Regeneration episodes that have launched in addition to the interview with Paul Hawken, um, and, uh, there will be, I think, 2 or 3 more over the course of the next coming weeks. I've been recording them fresh each week, and interestingly, they've tended to correlate with things that were happening in the world. So like I covered people and it was Indigenous Persons Day on that Monday. So it's like, I'm like, how did this happen? Or I was covering regenerative agriculture in the same week that I was interviewing Tom Neumark, who has started a not-for-profit called the Carbon Underground, all about drawing atmospheric carbon underground. And so it's just like these things like seem to just be happening sequentially. And when coincidences like that occur, like it was part of the plan, but not part of the plan, I'm always thinking, you know what, I'm on the right path. I feel like I'm— there's a reason for each little thing that's coming my way at this point.

I love it. I love it. So you can learn more about Karina Balisi and the work that she's doing, including the podcast, which she has allowed even people like me to be on. But the whole thing is a really, really fantastic, important endeavor. And that's all at caremorebebetter.com. Of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com. As well. I hope that you found some insight and inspiration from this conversation that you can bake into your efforts in flying higher and the difference only you can make. Um, Karina, thank you so much for spending some time with us on the broadcast today.

Oh, thank you so much. It's been my pleasure.