Consistency, Character, & Making Art That Matters with BLKBOK

Position. We are zipping across the ether. And once again, we've done it. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Creative on Purpose, a show about defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make in the second half of life so you can live your legacy. I'm your host, Scott Perry, Encore Life Coach and author of The Art of Encore Living. You can find all the things that you need to find at creativeonpurpose.com to get started now. It's time To Play Your Game. I could not be more excited. Let's meet today's guest, Charles Wilson, my old friend. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Oh, Scott, it's so good to be here. It's so good to see you in this way. My name is Charles Wilson, but also known as Black Bach, my artist name, and I am a neoclassical pianist and composer. I am originally from Detroit, Michigan. Um, Scott and I met at the Creators Workshop, and, uh, he was my coach, and then he was, uh, my, my— still my coach in a way, but, uh, we work together as coaches in the Creators Workshop. Um, my music is available everywhere online, uh, at Spotify, Apple Music, you name it, all the DSPs. And you can— I can be found at blkbok.com. That's spelled B-L-K-B-O-K dot com.

Awesome. Just before we dive in, I just wanted to share that we have Nadine.

Oh, wow.

In the house as well. So the fact that Nadine is here and that you've already referenced a little bit about how you and I initially met leads me to my first question, which is always, you know, just give us a little um, origin story. Give us the backstory on how Charles Wilson became Black Box and how you came to be now on a major label and bringing your music all over the world. We'd love to hear just a little bit of how that all happened.

Yeah, um, it kind of happened from this wonderful idea that came from, uh, my, uh, publisher at the time. He, he said, well, I've been a musician forever, and he said, well, I think you should do a solo piano album. And honestly, I had no idea what that meant. I didn't know how I was going to get it done. I didn't know how it was going to be accomplished. But, um, I set out on a journey through Creative Workshop for 100 consistent days of writing, and it ended up being more than 100. It ended up being 121. Uh, but in that time, I was able to construct these new pieces that I had never tried any writing, writing any classical music or anything of this type before. And the next thing you know, 10 pieces later, 3 months after that, I was signed to a record deal with Warner Music, and the rest is sort of ancient history. But the thing that really mattered was I learned how to work. I learned how to show up for myself, and to me, that was like the, the thing that changed, that shifted my whole reality.

Yeah. So I just, to provide a little more context, the Creatives Workshop was one of the offerings through Akimbo. And these are workshops that were initially put together by Seth Godin, who was, I worked for Seth for many years as a head coach in his program, starting with, I guess, the Marketing Seminar and then the Freelancers Workshop and the Bootstrappers Workshop. And eventually became a head coach in the Creatives Workshop where Charles and I initially met. That workshop eventually led to one of Seth's books, The Practice, which I highly recommend. And the whole point of that workshop was to develop a practice, to show up every day to do your work. And so, you know, you were obviously one of the all-stars of that program, but we got to see that journey that you just described unfold in real time.

Yeah.

During, during that first session of the Creatives Workshop. So just, I think that even though the Creatives Workshop, you know, may have appeared to be for people that were musicians or visual artists of one sort, or writers or poets or what have you, I think the basic premise applies to anybody that's making a difference in the world. They have to show up and do their work every day. I would love for you to just, you know, if you, if you don't mind sharing a little bit more, just, you know, how difficult, if difficult at all, was it to develop this habit? And how have you been able to sustain this habit as you exited the workshop and continue to do your work out in the world?

Oh, well, it's definitely— the habit is a challenge. For sure. I mean, it's not something that's, that's natural to, um, who we are, I don't think. I think there's, uh, a part of us that, uh, understands work but doesn't understand what really real consistency means. And until that is explained to you and you can finally, uh, get up to a place where you understand accountability, um, and really not just accountability to yourself but accountability to your audience I think at that point, that's when it all kind of clicks for me. And then continuing on, it's still the same thing. Like, I have— now the audience is expanding and it's growing and it's, it's changing. So I constantly have to keep myself motivated in that way to say that, you know, this is something that I'm making a difference. This is how I'm making a difference in the world. And it matters. And the fact that it matters means that I have to be consistent. I have to constantly show up. Just not for, like I said, not just only for myself, but for my audience as well.

Yeah. Well, and one of the things I think that made that program so powerful, including powerful for me, even as a coach, was that daily practice of showing up in community. And you referenced already this idea that, you know, we were accountable to each other for not only putting our work out there, speaking, you know, standing up to be seen, speaking up to be heard out loud and in public, then Giving feedback to other people's work, inviting people to provide feedback to ours— such a powerful practice. And of course, you know, after that first session of the Greatest Workshop, we brought you on as a coach. You and I were on a team together for, I don't know, was it 2 or 3 sessions, I think?

2 sessions, yeah.

2 sessions. Nadine, who's in the audience, also was a coach and then later took over as head coach of that workshop. And now we've all moved on and we're all bringing, doing the, making a difference that only we can make out in the world.

Right.

So what is the thing that, you know, when we talk about neoclassical music, it sounds interesting to me, but, and I, of course, am very familiar with your work, but give us a little sense of what that means, because I think if people were to go to your Instagram account, for instance, and start seeing some of the things that you're putting together, collaborating with other people, they— it would sound maybe a little bit more exciting than the— how we normally think of classical music.

Right. Well, for me, the term neoclassical just to me just means a new version of what we've already experienced. A lot of people, a lot of people in the classical world would look at me and go, ah, we don't know about that. But I believe that classical music is very much in need of an overhaul. I mean, it needs a new face, a new set of clothes, a new walk, a new pair of shoes. And I think that's what this form of music, this neoclassical music is. As you spoke about my socials, is I like to take modern or pop songs and then kind of pour classical music all on top of them. And I think it's very fun. It's very exciting. And I think it connects with a wide audience. One of the things I can say is that my audiences when I do shows are exceedingly diverse. I mean, from 8 to 80, all races, colors, and creeds, which is amazing. And I think that's what this music kind of plants the seed for is this amazing, you know, togetherness of all different types of people. Because I am essentially taking classical music and all other forms of music that I've studied throughout my years and kind of pouring them into one pot and mixing them up. So it's kind of like what I'm doing is, you know, what I'm receiving.

Yeah. Well, I think that's— absolutely spot on in terms of you really refreshing the, the classical genre. And I think it's, it's a real testimony to your artistry that you're, you're making classical music relevant again and, and putting it alongside where it belongs, um, in, in the consciousness of a, a popular market. You're putting it next to pop songs and rap songs and that sort of thing. One of the things that, that's interesting to me because having made a living as a blues and jazz guitarist for 25 or so years. Um, I know it's hard to tell when you look at me, but, you know, one of the things that I was always— that, that, that, that I thought about during my days as a musician, um, was, you know, the fact that jazz music, which was in the '20s, '30s, and '40s like popular music— it was— that was pop music, and then it kind of fell off. And one of the things that I feel like happened is that, you know, jazz music went to the academy, uh, you know, college programs. They put it under glass to be studied, and they turned it into curriculums, and they said, here's how you learn to play. And I think, you know, classical music obviously has also, you know, went to the academy a long time ago. And this is, this is not a great way to sustain, um, vibrancy, healthiness, and relevance, because when you put it in institutions like that, it now becomes something that only people of a certain demographic are going to be able to access. Um, it also— I'm just curious about your take on this. It's different, I'm sure, in the classical world, but when I think about jazz, um, and the jazz that I listen to, I can think of only two Academy-trained musicians: Miles Davis, who went to Juilliard, and Wynton Marsalis Um, uh, and I don't recall where he went, but, um, you know, those are two academically trained musicians that both say that they actually have a career despite their— that training.

Right.

Um, so, you know, what, what's your take on, you know, that, that piece of it? And, um, again, just want to applaud what you're doing to, to bring it back, uh, and make it relevant again.

Yeah. Well, one of the things that I thought was a disadvantage was that I did not have the opportunity to go to conservatory, school of music. And for years I thought this was, like I said, a massive disadvantage. Um, but what ended up happening was that it became a superpower. The fact that I don't have this training allows me to think and be creative in a more freeing way. I don't have necessarily— I have the tools to do what I need to do, the writing, the technique, but I don't have the format and the structure that I'm— that initially you learn at a conservatory. And I think that for me, it's become— it's become this way of expressing myself that Like I said, it's freedom. It's freedom. That's the best way I can put it. It's freedom. Like, I know so many people who have went to Juilliard and went to Berklee, and they're kind of still— we always say they drink the Kool-Aid, and now, you know, they're trying to come back from that. And I think it's become an advantage, the fact that I do not know as much as others would think that I should know. Um, yeah, the training, the training is just, it's just that, it's just training, you know. I think that schools of music are just put there in place so you can have access to certain things, but I don't think they teach you how to find your own voice. They just teach you how to mimic other voices, um, especially in the case of pianists, because before, uh the 1900s, every pianist was also a composer. But now you go to school to train as a pianist and you're just the pianist who plays other composers. And I think that's where the massive disconnect in classical music happened.

Yeah, well, I think that's really profound, and, and I, I totally agree that— I mean, I think that it's quite possible to be classically trained in a conservatory or in an academy, um, and still make relevant, important music. But it does, it does encourage, um, like in the jazz world, every, every academically trained jazz guitar teacher I had said, you gotta transcribe solos in order to learn how to solo. And all it ever did is help me play this Charlie, you know, play Miles Davis solos. Miles Davis. And it was not— but one of the things that, that, and I've written about this recently, is that Instead of transcribing, what I learned to do was to look for the themes. For instance, you know, I love Miles Davis, um, and I love his use of space. I love the intimacy of, you know, his approach. I love Billie Holiday, who had a very limited vocal range but was able to work within that constraint and again create, you know, a lot of intimacy, but also, you know, really was really evocative in the way she played. And, you know, I love Django Reinhardt and his playfulness and that sort of thing. So looking for those themes allowed, freed me to kind of mix and match ways to approach what you were saying, which is finding your voice. Um, so I just, I love, I love what you're sharing there. I'd also just love to hear, I mean, you've, You've done some pretty amazing things, performed, um, with some amazing people. Not all of them are famous musicians. Um, there was one that I remember seeing on your socials where, um, you actually performed with someone who is in outer space. Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, uh, I got the fortunate opportunity to perform a duet with, uh, my good friend Michael Lopez Alegria. Who, uh, was the commander of the AX-1 mission with, uh, Axiom Space. And amazing how it all happened. He's a fan of one of my songs, it's called Stars at Astra, and he sent me an email saying, send me the song. So I sent it to him. He said, I'm gonna put it on the playlist, on my playlist for this mission. And then about a week later, he doubled down and said, you know what, let's make a moment out of this. And he said, well, you can teach me a bit of the song. And then when I get up to the International Space Station, there's a keyboard there. And we can do a duet together. And me being a space nerd my whole life, I mean, I just ran in circles and screamed like, ah, this is crazy. But I think the most surreal moment was being able to be connected with Mission Control Houston and being able to see those folks. And a lot of people don't know that this also happened, was I played a dedication to Mission Control Houston just for keeping our astronauts safe while they're going off planet and coming back. So that was a very exciting day.

Yeah, that was really, really something. And it's— I don't know how much you can speak to this, but you also got to go home recently and perform at one of your favorite places. Can you tell us about that?

Oh wow. Um, actually I went home a couple times. Um, which one?

I was thinking about the playing, uh, at the Detroit Pistons.

Oh yeah, uh, the Pistons game. Yes. So I, I got the fortunate opportunity to play halftime for, uh, the Pistons and also a pre-show, uh, a pregame show. And it's just one of the most amazing experiences just to be able to play at home in front of a hometown crowd. And play a halftime show for the Pistons. It's just, I mean, they're the Pistons. Like, you know, I remember I grew up in the Bad Boy era, so I mean, it's just amazing to be a part of, do a collaboration with that organization.

Yeah, I was in Chicago during the Bad Boy era, so you and I might be on different sides of that situation, but all good, all good. Another thing I'd love for you to address, because I see you navigating this so beautifully, just, you know, having been a little bit closer when you were with the Creatives Workshop. But, you know, one of, one of my mentors, Dr. Jeff Spencer, is a performance mindset coach. And he works with, he's worked with 48 gold medal athletes, Lance Armstrong, Tiger Woods, the band U2. And one of the things that he says is, no, nobody wins alone. And I know that you work with a team of people that are helping you spread the difference that only you can make, you know, through your neoclassical, um, artistry. Um, I'd love for you to just share a little bit about, you know, what, what does that look like, um, you know, from, from your point of view, and, you know, what, what, what do you think is the importance and relevance of collaboration with a team of— putting a team of people around you.

Oh yeah, uh, collaboration is everything. Nothing happens without collaboration.

We did—

like, I love that, that, uh, quote because you're right, it's right. We don't do anything alone. Um, one of the things that I always say is one of the most difficult jobs is getting people to see your vision and agree to be a part of it. Um, but if you can do it, if you can accomplish that, then you will you will make leaps and bounds in whatever field it is. My team are all believers. We always say we're small and scrappy and we'll die on the hill together. So that's the thing that, you know, we all keep. We're very knit, tight-knit, like a family. And, um, the, the co-chairs of my label, Benton and Billy, are just— I mean, Billy, I've known Billy for more than 10 years., and we have been good friends and brothers, and we have fought, and I have lost. And, um, but he's just one of those people who has always been around, always cheering for me, even from the sidelines, even when I was being not the best person. Um, and this is how we get to this point. Uh, my management, Annie and DeeDee, they're awesome. My agents are awesome. My, uh, publicist, he's awesome. It's a real team effort, and it's all about being together and always say, let's row the boat at the same time on the same beat. And that's how we get the line, move the line forward.

Awesome. Just want to give a quick shout out to Carla, who's tuning in on YouTube. And this is one of her favorite episodes. So I love what you were just saying about— you mentioned that, you know, one of the members of your team is helping you become a better person. And at Creative On Purpose and The Art of Encore Living, we talk a lot about the importance of integrity and intention. Um, you know that I have an affection for Marcus Aurelius and Stoic philosophy, and they say that all that's required to live a good life is, is, um, the pursuit of virtue, the cultivation of your character. Uh, I'd love for you to speak just a little bit more about, um, you know, I, I get the sense from stories you've told me about your, your upbringing, your father, your, your first piano teacher, that, um, you had a lot of great role models coming up. But, you know, how does that play— this, this idea that you brought up of character and developing that as you move along, how important is that in your development as an artist?

Yeah, well, one of the things you may not know, Scott, is during my time in Creative Workshop as a student, I was also beginning a journey in therapy. And in life coaching. So I, you know, massive shout out to Dr. Felicia Thomas for being able to— to— I, I just thought that I needed to be a better person, and that was kind of where the seed all started, was let me be a better person and then all this other stuff can happen. And so while I was learning how to have a creative practice, I was also learning how to be a better version of Charles. And I believe that that was a key tool in what I'm building now, is that I understand how to build with a team, how to better be a team player. Um, so who you are is everything, you know, especially for a person like me that's in front of crowds, that's in front of people. Uh, I'm constantly making decisions about philanthropy, like where am I going to place my energies. So That stuff all kind of comes into play when you think about like who you are and what you're creating. So, uh, yeah, who you are is, is kind of— it's kind of what leads, you know, it's the, it's the engine that runs the train.

Yeah, well, I appreciate you, you know, the vulnerability of you sharing that. And I just, you know, as someone else that has, you know, been on the receiving end of the value of therapy and, and great coaching. I couldn't agree more that, you know, again, nobody wins alone. And, you know, I can't imagine that you weren't already a fantastic person, but we all have untapped promise and potential that we want to step into. And it's, you know, we need to be— embrace the sufficiency of who we are as we are, right now. But there's, you know, there is, for some of us, this, this hunger to develop our potential and deliver on our promise and what we can become and who, you know, how we are emerging into our full potential. So I just think that that's really thoughtful and profound of you to articulate, and I'm grateful for you sharing that. So give us a— we're starting to wind down our half hour together, but Maybe just two last questions. One is, um, give us a sense of, you know, what's, what's coming up for Charles Wilson and Black Box.

Oh, well, uh, what's coming up is a next release, which is a mixtape called Chill Music Volume 1. I decided to take a little different approach to what I had done previously on my albums and mixtapes. This one is simply just my offering of something that can be relaxing, very moody, very simple, um, something you can just put on and start washing dishes or watch the kids or put the baby down or vacuum or whatever, but something that's very just calming to the soul. So that release is coming out, I think, in the next month or so. And also, I am in the process of writing my second album. Uh, I'm about 4 songs into it right now. It's pretty amazing, this next set of compositions, because, you know, you always want to one-up the one that you did before. So I think for me, I think it's a one-up and then a parallel step. I think it's a sidestep, you know. So I'm not putting too much pressure on myself to be much better than I was before, but I'm definitely thinking that I want to come from a very, unique place this, this go-round. Uh, so those are what's coming up. More performances, uh, booking more shows, uh, throughout, you know, America, hopefully into Europe later this year. And, uh, I hope to see people at the shows, you know, keep continue doing what we're doing.

Yeah, well, if you make it to Southwest Virginia, I'll be, I'll be right up front and center and banging on your green room door. So awesome. Um, and I, I love, uh, that you said that you're trying to take a step forward and side to the side. I, I have been privy to, um, an advanced copy of the, the upcoming album. It's so good, Charles. I mean, I love the evocativeness and, and the range of emotions from, from song to song. Um, they're kind of nice extended play things too, so, um, you you actually get a chance to let it kind of wash over you while you're, you know, for me, it's, it's, it's kind of almost part of my nighttime ritual to just listen to those 4 tracks. But so looking forward to seeing that get shared more widely with the world. So as we're coming towards the end here, the last question is always just for our guests to share one final tip exercise, practice, maxim, quote, something that will help someone that, like you, wants to more clearly define the difference only they can make, but also gain confidence in developing and delivering that difference out into the world. What would you share with someone that, you know, would like to fly a little bit higher and make a bigger difference while they experience better living and the difference only they can make?

My advice would be to start. It's never too late. Today is a perfect day. Get started, try something, do something you've never done before. If you have something you've been doing for a long time, try a different way or a different approach to, to what you're doing. Um, I think that creativity is one of the greatest gifts we have, and it's one of the greatest gifts we can give. I think art and creativity is the cornerstone of who we are as humans. So I would just say start whatever it is you're doing. Just start.

I absolutely love that. Thank you, Charles, and thank you all for tuning in. Charles and I really appreciate your time and attention. We hope that today's broadcast motivates you to take a bolder step into possibility and the difference only you can make to keep Go Go going with it. Defining, Developing and Delivering the Difference Only You Can Make, visit creativeonpurpose.com. If you're watching on social media or YouTube, leave a comment, share a question, tell us your biggest takeaway or lesson from this conversation. If you're listening as a podcast, please leave us a 5-star review. It helps more people, more of the right people collide with the conversations. Now, take the insight and inspiration from today's show and play your game all in and Fallout. Charles Wilson, so great to spend this time with you. Thanks so much for lending us some of your wisdom and time today.

Thanks for having me, Scott Perry.