Conversations That Lead to Clients (No Funnels, No Sales Calls)

All right, everyone, it's the second Tuesday of the month. It's 1 o'clock, which means it must be time for our monthly deep dive workshop. Welcome to The Art of Conversation. You are here because you have signed up and indeed showed up for this workshop on the art of conversation. You're in the right place if you're ready to start and shape conversations that actually lead somewhere, somewhere good. And what I want you to do next is for those of you in the Inner Circle, you've been sent a worksheet ahead of time. If you've requested it, you can start to fill that out as we go. And if you're a Circle member and here, just if you take good notes and watch the replay, you should be able to get all the same information. For those of you that are Inner Circle members, this edited and enhanced replay along with the worksheet presentation notes and GPT implementation prompt should be uploaded to the Inner Circle vault sometime later this week, or certainly by the weekend. And the replay will be made available to everyone that has reserved a, a seat for today right after this workshop, including Circle members. And the replay will be made available to all paid subscribers, Circle and Inner Circle subscribers, at some point in the not too distant future, probably 2 to 4 weeks from now. So let's get to a screen share and let's dive in and get going. So The Art of Conversation: How to Start and Shape Client Conversations That Actually Lead Somewhere Good. First thing is today that we are focusing on the part of the conversation engine that we, which is something we've covered in a couple of different workshops now, but we're talking about the, the part that most folks have struggled with many folks still aren't— have a lot of uncertainty around or just plain are getting wrong because they're getting too far ahead of themselves. We're starting at the beginning in the icebreaker and diagnostic phase. For those of you that are implementing the conversation engine, this is our client attraction process that doesn't require any funnels, any ideal customer avatars, any power offers or niching or launch kind of formulas. We are asserting that we can fund and fit our ideal lifestyle by onboarding perfect fit clients, by beginning with something that comes naturally to all of us, something that has worked in every business, every successful business since the beginning of time. And that is by becoming better communicators and by learning how to communicate effectively with the right people. So we're going to start at the beginning with the icebreakers and get a little bit into the diagnostics. Because these are the things that are gonna lead to your low-ticket continuation offers and then help inform and inspire, iterate, improve your mid-ticket and high-ticket offers. So again, we're not talking about sales calls or sales conversations. We're not talking about any digital marketing trickery, hacks, tricks to get people to transact with us by giving us their credit card information so we can give them the thing that we wanna sell. We are talking about conversations with the right people people done in a way that feels natural, ethical, in full integrity with who we are and who we want to become, and move the right people naturally forward from an icebreaker conversation into a diagnostic conversation where we're going to help provide them with a roadmap for how they can close the gap between where they are and where they want to be established through the icebreaker conversation and do such a great job with that, that they are eager to raise their hand to take the next step with you. And a low ticket, mid ticket, high ticket type of offer. So the key principles for us to focus on here upfront is that my assertion, the philosophy that underlines this, the belief that underlies all this is that the fastest path to clarity and clients and traction is conversation. That most people start conversations too far ahead and with too much agenda. Or instead of starting at step 3, 4, or 5, which is where many of you have been trying to start, even after the accelerator this past weekend. We're going to start at step 1, and we're going to talk about how great icebreakers lower defenses, don't raise them, and how well-articulated and diagnostics that are informed and inspired by those icebreaker conversations will help us earn trust and close clients through trust and permission and invitation rather than trying to engineer a result. That's good for us. We're going to, we're going to give them what they want and the right people will naturally want to continue. So the North Star for today is that conversational presence is the foundation of preeminence. It's how to prove your competence, not claim it through some social proof or through outrageous power offer or no-brainer offers or any of that sort of thing. And again, no digital marketing trickery or hacks. We had this conversation just yesterday on our Monday on Purpose call that what does it feel like to communicate authentically, naturally in alignment with who you really are and who you seek to become? It has nothing to do with following a script or with trying to craft even a perfect forever offer or idea virus. It actually just happens when you show up present with generosity and with integrity and ethically, do your best to help the person right in front of you. That presence is key. And anytime that you are thinking about how you're going to move them to that next step, you are not in presence. You must stay present, stay in the conversation you're in, and the next step will sort itself out. So part 1, why this matters, why the beginning of the conversation matters. Because people don't respond to icebreakers based on what you ask or how clever or perfectly tuned your icebreaker questions are. They respond based on how the questions feel. If they feel extractive, if they feel like clickbait, if they feel like they're being qualified, if they feel pressured, if they feel like there's a hidden agenda, Doesn't matter how well-crafted those icebreaker questions are, they're not going to land the way that you want them to land. A warm opening, a warm icebreaker sequence will pique their curiosity, will help them feel your presence and your generosity and the safety of the container that you're creating in that conversation. And here's a little frame that I learned from my friend Jeff Moore. He's the person that blurbed my book, The Art of Encore Living. He's a friend through Nick Peterson's Guardian Academy network and, and someone I met through Laurel Portier with my work with her. Jeff is an amazing human being. He has been through every single program imaginable. He is actually kind of the curator of Jay Abraham's IP, and he has this thing that he Scott Perry says as part of his perfect introduction, his value introduction, which is, "I see you. I know you because I am you. You're already there. You just don't know it. And I am your champion." That's what you're trying to accomplish in your initial conversations with people. You want them to feel seen, heard, and understood. And you— they will feel that because you have been exactly where they are, and you have helped dozens, hundreds, thousands of people that are right where they are take the next step into their potential and possibility. You are assuring them that they are sufficient and whole and possess everything they need to succeed in achieving their aspirations or solving their problems, because they already possess everything they need. They're already there. They just don't know it yet. And through the icebreaker and diagnostic questions, you're helping them see the doorway, turn on the light switches, cross the threshold. And by stepping into possibility with them, they will feel that you are their champion. You are the trusted guide. You are the experienced wise one that can help them tap into their hidden wholeness, their hidden potential, their limitless potential, and into the possibility that they imagine for themselves. So the quality of the entire conversation is determined in this first 20 seconds, this very first icebreaker sequence. Your job is to start where they are, not try to take them where you want to take them. You will succeed More than anything else, the determinant of your success is your ability to let go of your expectations and agenda. Help see them where they are and help them, help reveal their blind spots and help them see and take that next step into possibility. So the Icebreaker Sequence is not a single question. This is the thing that keeps coming up. People keep saying, well, what's the, what's the first question? That I ask. Anybody want to take a guess at what my answer is whenever someone wants a singular, dogmatic, scripted, templated solution to a behavioral problem? It depends. It depends. Exactly. It depends. Is this person a cold prospect? Are they a warm prospect? Are they someone that already has some proximity and access to you? Are they a warm prospect, a warm lead. So what we're doing is we're meeting each person where they are, and that means we have to move them from identity. We have to give them a chance to share with us who they are, what they believe, what they— what their challenges are, what their dreams and aspirations are, what they're— what they want to accomplish. We have to help them clarify what they're actually trying to accomplish, where they actually are, and, and help them clarify the gap between where they are and where they want to be. What's the scope of that gap? We have to help them identify the most immediate constraint, or as I usually prefer to say, the most immediate bottleneck to their progress to taking the next right step into potential impossibility. And then simply to invite them to the next step in the conversational sequence if it makes sense, if it makes sense for them and if it makes sense for you. So step 1 is the identity icebreaker. The purpose here is to let them talk from strength and identity, not to dig into their fear, their insecurity, their uncertainty, or their pain. So one of my favorites is, what excites you about what you do? This is especially effective if it's a truly new-to-you cold prospect or cold lead. It works because it has a positive effect. You're not asking them to share something that makes them anxious. You're asking them to share something that gets them excited, that makes them feel good, that reveals who they are, what they believe, what their values are. It gives them an instant quick win. Creates a little bit of emotional momentum, a little bit more of a trusted connection to you, and it expresses genuine interest on your part. Remember, the point is you're not trying to prove how interesting you are. You're trying to show them and help them feel how interested you are in who they are, what they desire, what they feel challenged by, and and how you can become a person that can help them see that more clearly and take that next step. Other options: What's been lighting you up lately? What's surprised you recently? What's the story with— those of you that attend the Monday and Friday calls know this is a Cato-ism. We have Scott-isms, now we have Cato-isms. Cato has this thing where she goes into a room and if someone's wearing a funky shirt or sweater or a hat or a brooch, she'll say, hey, what's the story with that pin. Hey, what's the story with your hat? It's just a way of letting someone express who they are, what they value, what lights them up. Another one that I like to use that comes from Michael Bungay Stanier's book, The Coaching Habit. If you're not familiar with Michael Bungay Stanier, The Coaching Habit is one of my favorite books of all time. It's really the book that got me started in my coaching journey. Michael's been kind enough to blurb two of my books. He's a really fantastic thoughtful, wise, funny person. And his very first coaching question of the 7 that are in The Coaching Habit is, "What's on your mind?" So again, icebreakers. You don't have to— I'm just giving you some examples other than what excites you most about what you do, even though that's my favorite. Your initial icebreaker can be whatever feels authentic and natural to you. A simple, "How are you doing?" can work. When I am working with young people and I can sense the stress in a guitar lesson, and in most cases any anxiety or stress they feel has nothing to do with the fact that they're sitting next to me or in a guitar lesson. They're young people. Being a young person is kind of even more fraught than it used to be when we were all younger people. And so just— and this is something I, I learned from watching Wynton Marsalis interact with young people in a workshop. He just would put his hand on a young man's shoulder and say, "Hey man, you all right? What's going on?" It can be as simple as that. You're just— the only point of an icebreaker question or interaction is to break the ice and initiate a conversation. You're not trying to extract any information. The first step is, can you actually just get the conversation started? Because those initial icebreakers is what opens the door. After the conversation is started, the next two steps are going to indicate the direction, their direction, where they are, what they're starting with, what they actually want to achieve. And then the constraint clarifier. What is the most immediate bottleneck to their progress in achieving the aspiration they want to achieve or in solving the problem they want to solve? So the, the second part of the icebreaker sequence is you want to clarify direction, clarify direction for you so you understand where they are and where they want to get, but help them clarify where they are and where they want to get. You've all heard me say this many times. Most people that you are talking to have some idea of what they're trying to accomplish. They under— they have some idea of what— where they want to go. I believe that this is our life speaking to us because it wants to speak through us. And even when we're not hearing or heeding that call, life has a funny way of getting us somewhere close to the path. The problem is that when we're 1 or 2 degrees off, as my friend Stephen Cope says, it can feel like we're a mile off. But it is an incredible gift just to provide or to help someone see with greater clarity what they're actually trying to accomplish and where they are and what they're starting with. So my, the question I normally ask here is, what's the number one thing you're trying to move forward right now? I'm shifting from that identity question. Who are you? What do you believe? What's lighting you up? To now, what's your intention? What do you, what's, what's the, the purpose that you're leaning into right now? What direction are you heading right now? And so this is where you're gonna start to give some shape to the conversation and let you locate their direction, where they are headed. If you need some options to start playing with, you can play with what are you working on or toward right now? Or what's the next most meaningful step that you're trying to take right now? Once they have articulated direction, and there might be some back and forth. Again, Michael Bungay Stanier has a great, I think his third coaching question. His second coaching question is, what's the, what's challenging for you right now? What's the hard part for you right now? And then the second question, third question is, and what else? And he calls that the magic coaching question because the first answer that someone gives is really the answer. People are sometimes guarded. People are sometimes unclear or confused. And if you just repeat, and what else? And what else? And what else? They will arrive at their own truth about what's really— where they're really headed, where they're really starting from, the scope of the gap that they're trying to cross, and what's really in their way. So once you've established that direction in step 2, you're trying to, to find what's that challenge, what's that obstacle. What's the next step that they know they need to take, but they're struggling to take? And this is where people stop performing and they start to get into a deeper level of truth. There's a much deeper level of vulnerability in defining what's the obstacle for you right now? What's the bottleneck for you right now? What's the main challenge for you right now? That's why those other two steps, the identity icebreaker and the direction clarifier, are so important. Because they set you up for this more deeply vulnerable question for them to answer. And this is where they stop performing and there will be more truth-telling. So this question is going to surface some fear, some anxiety, some friction, some fog, some confusion, some uncertainty, but it's also going to give you the raw materials that you need for the diagnostic. And it positions you as a person Who sees things they don't see sets you up as the person who has seen this before and is positioned to be the person that can help them see what they don't see and take that first step. Alternatives to what's the biggest obstacle to your progress right now is what's the real challenge for you here? That's the Michael Bungay Stanier question from the second question from The Coaching Habit. What is making this feel harder than it needs to be is another great one. In Step 1, they saw the doorway. In Step 2 and 3, you're helping them cross the threshold as a trusted guide, as an experienced guide, as someone that they can trust and someone that they are going to become willing to give permission to, to be invited into that next step. And that gets us to Step 4, and that is the invitation into the diagnostic. So I always feel like I have— I use the term diagnostic because it is the, the best identifier qualifier I have for this step in the process. But you never want to call this step a diagnostic. You are not a physician. You are not a counselor. Well, one of you is a counselor, but most of us are not counselors. So the use of the diagnostic language as part of the public exchange is, is a little legalistically gray and fraught. I would not call it a diagnostic. You can call it a clarity questionnaire, a catalyst questionnaire is something I've used in the past. You can call it a discovery if you want to, anything but a diagnostic. But it is a diagnostic because you are going to use those questions, that invitation into the diagnostic, to help them take the next step. The icebreaker has established direction. Here's where I am. Here's what I have. Here's where I want to be. The diagnostic is going to help them see the path. It's going to help that— it's going to reveal their blind spots, their faulty reasoning, their false beliefs. You're going to see around the corner for them and help them see around the corner. You're going to help also determine fitness. Are they a good fit for you and are you a good fit for them? And then of course, you're also going to set yourself up for that big revelatory aha, holy shit moment where you get to just completely flash roll and demonstrate your expertise, experience, and ability to help them see that the way forward to closing the gap between where they are and where they want to be is possible. We have to establish identity. We have to establish clarity of direction. We have to identify the most immediate constraint so that we're setting ourselves up for this diagnostic. If you do each of these steps well enough, even if you forget to extend the invitation to go to the next step, people will ask you, is there a way that we can keep going with this? And that's what you want. It has to be their idea to continue the conversation. It can't be something that you engineer. It happens through inception. So if you've done the first 3 steps correctly, you can tell them, hey, this is fantastic. I have a little time this week. If you'd like, I can send you 5 questions that will help you get a clear roadmap that will help you accomplish what you want to accomplish or solve this problem that you want to solve. Are you interested? You don't send them the questions right away. You ask them if they would like to receive the questions. And if they say yes, you send— you, you, you can have a, a templated email response to that. Just a quick note here, icebreakers, you can do these via messaging on social media, via email, via messaging on, on Substack, or you can do them in person. You can have these conversations with people in line at the grocery store or passing your friends and neighbors on the street in town. When it's time to move to the diagnostic, I do recommend that you take this into an asynchronous exchange. I find that email is best. It's the most personal. Uh, it's, it's the, the highest permission that someone can give you is their email address. It's something that people don't give up very willingly anymore. So I, and, and it provides you with the spaciousness and the time and the slack to be more thoughtful in how you respond. To their diagnostic question answers. The diagnostic works because it asks for permission before they leap into that next level of vulnerability. It signals your generosity, that you're willing to take some well-earned time, some slack in your schedule to help them craft that path between where they are and where they want to be and close that gap. It's just an additional promise of clarity. It's not a sales pitch. It's very— it's much lower stakes than hopping on a call or signing up for, you know, some sort of workshop or webinar or something like that. And it definitely avoids that creepy sales feel of, you know, can I ask you a few questions? When you ask someone to get on a call, even if it's positioned as generously as you can make it, Everyone's antenna is finely tuned to discovery calls, AKA sales calls. Nobody wants to get on a call with you at the beginning because everybody's assumption is that it's a sales call. We are all pretty skeptical and cynical about jumping on a phone call with someone. This is why the LinkedIn DM strategy doesn't work so well anymore, because everybody kind of caught wind of this thing that was working for some of us back 5 years ago, and they started trying to reverse engineer it and do it themselves. And they all did it really badly. And we all got— and many of us, you know, well, I'm not on social media of any type right now, but when I was on LinkedIn up, up until a few months ago, I probably had at least 1 or 2 DMs in my LinkedIn inbox requesting that we jump on a call. Let's have a coffee chat. Hey, I'd love to help you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's jump on a call. So by taking it asynchronous to email, they feel safer because they know they're not going to be backed in a corner and tricked out of their credit card information and their leverage. And it is easier in some ways for them to back out. But as someone that did discovery calls for several years, you know, getting ghosted on discovery calls is the norm. It's very rare that someone signs up for a discovery call and actually gets on. So the key reminder here is that diagnostics are never imposed. You only invite them. Even better when they request that they can take that next step with you, that they can have greater proximity and access to you. All right, before I jump into part 3, I just wanna make sure, does everybody understand the intent and the implementation of the icebreaker and the diagnostic sequence. Icebreaker, start the conversation, define direction, help them get clarity of direction, where they are, where they want to be, and make sure you understand and can confirm where they are and where they want to be. And if you can do that, the next step will be to invite them into the diagnostic, which will help you vet their fitness for working with you. And of course, it's also giving them an opportunity to vet you and whether you're the kind of person they want to work with or buy from. It's also going to help reveal their blind spots and misleverage and their false, faulty reasoning and false beliefs. And it's going to give you a, a chance to demonstrate real authority and expertise and an ability to help them through, navigate through around what their blind spots are or what their false beliefs are. Everybody good? All right, let's get back to it.