Creative on Purpose Live - Bob Wheeler

Ether. And according to StreamYard, we are live. I feel alive. I hope you do, Bob. Welcome everyone to Creative on Purpose Live, insightful conversations with inspiring difference makers to help you live your legacy and endeavors that matter. I'm your host, Scott Perry, Chief Difference Maker at Creative on Purpose. If you're ready to fly higher in the difference only you can make, visit creativeonpurpose.com and sign up for our newsletter. You can Check it out by just scanning that QR code and get insight and inspiration for better living and making a bigger difference delivered to your inbox 3 times every week. And join our Difference Maker Mindset Challenge. Let's meet today's guest, Bob Wheeler. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference that you're making?

Absolutely. Well, it's great to be here, Scott Perry. I am Bob Wheeler. I am the CFO of the world-famous Comedy Store. I have an accounting tax practice. I do workshops on money and emotions. I wrote a book called The Money Nerve, which talks about that whole bit of money and emotions. And I have a podcast called Money You Should Ask, where we talk with people about their money beliefs, money blocks. And really, what I'm up to these days is starting conversations about money. So that I can hopefully help remove the shame and stigma around financial literacy and to let people know that they're not alone in their financial shame and that we can all start today doing a little bit better. So that's, that's my purpose.

Love it. Well, I always love to dig in a little bit into people's backstory and yours you've already alluded to, you know, at least a dual life that you're leading at the moment. In addition to your great work with financial literacy and planning, you are also the CFO at the world-famous Comedy Store. So give us a little sense about what, what brought Bob Wheeler to what he's doing now around money. And I imagine that that goes through the Comedy Store at some point.

Absolutely. So I was, you know, doing my thing, accounting like everybody else. It's very, you passionate thing of mine. And basically, a lot of my friends are creative folks. I did stand-up comedy for many, many years. I haven't done it in probably 3 or 4 years, but I was doing stand-up comedy and also doing taxes. And what I was discovering, that people would go out and do the exact opposite of what seemed like really sound advice. And my creative friends had a lot of shame around the fact that they picked their passion over money. And at the same time, I didn't have the greatest track record with my finances. I could tell everybody else what to do, but then I wouldn't follow my own advice. And so, you know, for me, comedy was a great way to get up and say whatever I was thinking and then just say, "Just kidding." So, you know, it was a great way to actually— because in real life, you know, I had to be a really nice guy and hit my marks and do everything appropriately. Comedy gave me the freedom to be a little more expressive. And basically, as I just realized that so many people had stories around money, I would give talks about money and 10 people would line up afterwards to share their personal stories. And I just realized, wow, we're all running around trying to present really well, hoping that none of our secrets get exposed. And like, there's just so much shame and isolation. And so, I really just wanted to start conversations and say, look, I didn't do it right either. Because some of my clients would say, you're probably judging me, you're probably ashamed of me, I'm probably your worst client. Like, I've actually been there, I've done that. And so for me, being able to really reach out to people and say, hey, there's no shame in following your passion, and there's no shame in not getting the financial download. Let's start today, let's start having conversations.

I love it. Well, so you've completely blasted the myth that accountants don't have a sense of humor. So I love you, you've dispelled that myth. I also, as someone that made a living as a professional musician for over 25 years, I really appreciate you kind of pointing to this, you know, another myth, which is people that pursue creative endeavor as a means of making a living are kind of dooming themselves into some sort of financial hardship. And I will admit that, you know, early in my music career, I definitely did put myself into a situation where it was pretty much hand to mouth for a long period of time. And I was doing it while I was, you know, raising two sons and in a marriage, happy marriage. And for me, and I'm just curious about your thoughts around this, one of the things that I came to realize is that money is just a story. It's a construct. It's something that humankind is made up, because we needed a way to exchange goods and services. Um, and when I stopped, like, determining my own value, just, uh, or, or allowing money to be the determinant of my value, some funny things happened for me. Uh, number one, I started to charge more and get paid more, which allowed me to work less. And, um, Yeah. So just curious about, you know, your thoughts around, and maybe this is part of your work as well, is, you know, how do we tell ourselves stories around money that cultivate our greater happiness, health, well-being?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would agree money is neutral. Money simply amplifies the goodness or the badness in us. It just amplifies more of who we are when we have more of it or less of it. And, you know, if you take a $5 bill or a $100 bill and close your eyes, you can't tell the difference, right? We've made a value judgment to get really excited when we get a $100 bill and not so excited when we get a $1 bill. That's all emotional. That's all choice. It's not reality. If you close your eyes, the thing is, we have been taught, or at least I was socialized, that my net worth was my self-worth. And so that I am my accomplishments. So if I'm not accomplishing, if I'm not hitting my marks, what am I? Just to be me is not enough. And so that was a real hard piece for me to break because as soon as you hit your mark, well, you're as good as your last gig, right? So you got to start over. You can't even stop in the moment and say, wow, that was really— oh, got to get to the next thing or I'm going to be worthless. And so I think You know, I appreciate people that follow their creative passions because society will say, get a backup job, it's not going to work out. It's great you want to help the world, but it's going to cost you. And, and, or I've had friends of mine that say, well, you know, if you're not starving, you're not really being a pure artist. So I've got to starve for my art for it to be in the purest form. And the truth is We've created stories. We created when we were young, when we were little, either we asked for a present or a bike and our parents told us we were greedy, or our parents told us we needed to learn how to save, or they said, we'll just give it to you. Money is manipulation. It's like, I love you if I give you money and I'm going to teach you a lesson and I'm going to take it away from you. So we use money in so many ways to manipulate and power position our way to the top.

Yeah, really, really powerful. Um, so for folks that are tuning in and interested in, in the book and, and your approach, so how, how do you, how do you begin to help those that you serve, um, develop a healthier relationship with their stories around money and, and their relationship with money?

Yeah, the first thing I ask people is, are you willing to do the work and are you willing to be uncomfortable? And that's really important because if you're not willing to look at this stuff, you're probably not going to go very far because you're just going to stay in your story. One of the things I really encourage people to do is get really curious. Wow, that's so interesting that I love to keep my bank balance at zero. That's so interesting that I really seem to enjoy credit card debt. It's so interesting that I'd rather have a few more drinks than put money towards a house. And it's not judgmental. It's just, wow, isn't that interesting? Isn't that curious? Because I think we have to get really curious and be willing to look at and say, oh, wow, yeah, I do that, and not judge it. And then once we can get really aware of, oh, I learned that when I was 5. Oh, I remember I had this experience where my grandparents tried to shame me, or my parents told me that I was the most amazing kid in the world, even though I couldn't like even tie my own shoes. And so what are these stories? And then do they still serve me? Is it true? And do I have evidence to support it? Or is this just something that I've held on to? And it's just too uncomfortable to leave this belief system?

Yeah. Well, what's interesting is, as you're describing how you work with clients through their, their money problems. It's so, so similar to other— the coaching that we do at Creative On Purpose and just coaching in general is, you know, the first step is to leverage the discomfort. It's, it's something that we have to— I love what you were saying about getting a little bit more curious about And it sounds like to bringing our consciousness into the, into the situations, thinking on purpose about our current relationship with money, our current stories around money, and then making a choice to step into a better possibility, a different way of thinking about these things. And so I'm guessing that very few people, when they hear your completely rational and reasonable arguments around why we might experience some suffering around money, don't immediately go, oh, well, I'll just flip the switch and change my thinking around money. So, you know, knowing that transformation rarely happens in an instant, but it usually happens over a long series of shifts, what are, what are some of the the very first steps that people can take into developing a healthier relationship with their money stories?

So, there's a couple of things. One is practical. Start just writing down money going in and money going out. Just track it.

Oh, wow.

I buy my lunch every day. Oh, I get a coffee instead of getting the one that's free at the office or whatever that might be. Just starting to track money in and out. And people are amazed. At how much money they're spending unconsciously and then actually missing the places where, oh, I got a gift card for $100. Oh, I found $5 on the ground. I got a bonus. You know, we don't factor those in. We don't stop long enough to see that. So that's one thing. The other thing is to— and you can ask a friend to help you stay accountable to this. But I have so many friends and I've done this. Oh my God, I'm so broke. Really? You just took a trip to Paris. You've got a brand new car. You've got a house. Changing our words because they keep reaffirming our story that may not be true. And so we might be cash flow negative at the moment, but we're not poor. I've been around the world. I've seen poor. And I have been fortunate enough, even though I've had some really tough times in my past, I haven't had it as bad as some of the places where they're just lucky to get drinking water. And so are we poor? And listening to those stories of like, it's so easy to be a passive victim in a first world country where, oh, it's so hard. I can't get the newest iPhone. It's so hard. And to listen to these stories and just sort of go, wow, that's interesting. I'm sort of entitled because I've got myself. Being a little bit indignant at services and things where I just expect it. So really listening to the words we use and actually looking at how we spend money. The other thing I think that's really important, at least it was for me, was realizing that I didn't know how to set boundaries. I didn't know how to say no when it was something that didn't serve me. I didn't know how to advocate for myself.. And so, learning to actually say no and get comfortable with that or say yes, say yes to an opportunity that's coming in instead of feeding into the fear. Just getting more conscious, getting more intentional, and saying, how do I want to show up in the world? And then, am I financially doing things that are in alignment with what I say I want to be in the world?

Yeah, I love that. Well, boundaries, I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Is something that's so very important and something that those of us that enjoy a level of privilege and entitlement have a really difficult time remembering. That boundaries are— can be really beautiful constraints, and we can change our habits and change our, our, our mindset by just changing the— moving, moving the boundaries either in or out to you know, make room for healthier, healthier habits. One of the things that the people that are tuning into this broadcast are people that, like you, aspire to or want to advance in making the difference only they can make, taking, leveraging their experience and their skills and their talents and their values and the content of their character to make a meaningful difference in the world, the difference only they can make, as we say at Creative on Purpose. And I am guessing that, that you, like most of the rest of us, in your pursuit of making the difference only you can make, have experienced a fumble or two, maybe a failure or a mistake, or at least something that appeared to be a mistake or a failure in the moment. So I'm just wondering if you would share a moment in this journey you know, either with writing the book or just arriving at your process. Was there a moment where things didn't work out as intended or where in the moment you felt like, um, you had made a big mistake or a big failure? How did you reframe yourself or how did you persevere and continue on, um, so that you could, could fulfill your aspiration to write a book or to, to help people with their money stories?

Yeah, well, I've had lots of failures. I've had lots of lessons. Uh, I, you know, I think it's something that— there's a couple things that come to mind. When I was first studying for the CPA exam, I deep down didn't have a belief, um, or I had a belief that I couldn't pass it, that everybody else but me, even though people said, oh, you're smart, you'll do great, uh, and I, I, and I, I kept I took the exam many times, and thankfully they don't put how many times you take the exam. And I remember I went to this course and the guy up front said, if you don't think you're going to pass the exam, you should go ahead and get your money back from this workshop because I guarantee you will not pass. And I thought, yeah, whatever. I mean, I know I'm not going to pass, but I'm going to take the course. And maybe I'll pass. And of course, I didn't pass. And so, what I really learned there, even though it was very frustrating, and back in the day, you couldn't just take the exam at any time. It was twice a year. And you had to wait and wait. And you had to— everybody's like, "Did you get the notice? Did you get the notice?" Yeah, I didn't pass again. And so, there's all the shame. And once I was aware that this guy was saying, "If you believe you're not going to pass, You're not going to pass. You're going to be right because we love to be right. And that was an epiphany moment that I said, I have to shift my thinking here. I've got to stop thinking, well, I can't do it, but I hope somebody else will get me over the finish line. I'm going to have to get me over the finish line. So I think that was a real awareness of how important mindset was. And it seems like a simple thing that he said, and maybe nobody else in the course heard it. But I certainly heard it because it resonated.

Yeah, I love that. I think this actually speaks to what you were saying earlier around money stories. It's— we— I think at some point you mentioned, you know, kind of playing the victim. Like, you know, we have this desire to protect ourselves, and one of the ways that we can do that is to is to repeat victim stories about how life is happening to us. And this lets us off the hook from seeing, stepping into, staying in, and sharing our power over the stories that we tell ourselves and the, our ability to step into our potential and into a better possibility. And I wonder too if, We talk a lot about mindset and posture at Creative on Purpose. And one of, one of my assertions is that, you know, this, this mindset moment that you just described is one thing, but, you know, it feels like the, that you were stepping into that before you actually had the mindset shift. And that seems to be a common thread is that posture informs mindset, not the other way around, because you can't just think your way into a new way of being. You have to be your way into a new way of being. And that feels like it helps, helps us embrace the curiosity necessary to keep leaning into the edges of our understanding and ability, but also earn the confidence that we can figure it out as we go. So I'm just curious if there was some things that you did in addition to listening to this person, you know, share this idea with you that helped you step into your potential and your ability to pass the test?

Well, you know, I think he was already speaking to somebody, something that I already knew, like that I already believed to be true. Right. So he's already naming that if you think you can't pass and I'm going, oh, yeah, I can't pass, but I'm going to find a shortcut. Maybe this will be the exception this time. When it comes to success, normally it's not, but maybe this will be the time that the universe will give me a pass. What it did was when it actually— then when I didn't pass again, I was able to go, wow, he made the statement. I knew it. It just hadn't been spoken. It hadn't been named. And sometimes just naming it, I think often naming it gives it the power to then be able to change it. Because if you can't name it, you can't change it. And so once he did that, and then I realized, oh my gosh, like, he was true. And I knew it was going to be true. And I, you know, I wanted to sort of be right. I actually then started actually, okay, here's— there were all these different ways that I could take fake tests to like just practice. Here's a question. And I started saying, okay, you know what, I'm not just going for 70%, I'm going to go for 100%. I'm not just going to try and get over that that hump because you had to get a certain number. I'm actually going to go all out, and then if I don't quite hit it, it still may be better than me just trying to get 75% of 75%. Let me go for 100%. And, and so I think what it did is it motivated me to realize the power was within me. Uh, everybody around me couldn't believe I hadn't passed it. People— I was given a lot of, uh, responsibilities that were above people that had been CPAs for longer than me, even when I wasn't one. And so I knew, like, I had the abilities. I didn't have the belief that I had the abilities. And that's where I had to do the work. Yeah.

It's really interesting that you, you mentioned naming it. We just posted to the Creative on Purpose blog a process to help people bring more consciousness into their into their day-to-day decisions. And the first step is you have to notice that there's a— that you're, you know, repeating subconscious, unconscious behavior that's not really serving you. And then you have— I love the naming part. And for me, the naming part also means you have to name it in a way that takes away all the adjectives and adverbs, all the value judgments and strong emotional language, because that that just pulls us more down rabbit holes and into the victim story. And it enables the problem to work on us instead of us working on the problem. So noticing, naming, and then we can figure out how to navigate our way into a better possibility. So I think that's really, really powerful. The other thing that I'm hearing is in this anecdote that you're sharing, you know, what I'm hearing is there's a narrative around your own worthiness. That is, um, that you're having to negotiate with, um, and, and find your way, uh, into a, a healthier, happier story about your own worth. And it's just, to me, that's interesting given, um, you know, the conversation that you're engaged in, um, around money. And I'm just wondering if those two things are, you know, if you see a tie between your, uh, your, your challenges with your own worthiness and your challenges around money?

Absolutely. For me, I think it's important to say that even as I have a healthier relationship with money, it doesn't mean I've perfected it. And so, like, I'm still going to struggle around scarcity. I'm still going to believe that I got to have 6 months. I just don't beat myself up about it and I laugh about it. I go, oh, there's that mindset coming in. I, as much as I work against it, I was so socialized that I am my accomplishments. So if I get around a few people that are starting to be competitive, I'm going to start to be that competitive person. And let me show you that I can win instead of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so my ego can come in and say, let me take over from here, which doesn't serve me in the long run. So I still have to look at that stuff and go, oh yeah, Bob, you don't need to. Like you don't need another accomplishment in the belt. But it was such a part of my story for such a long time that, you know, yeah, you got to go to base camp, Mount Everest, you got to do this, you got to do this, you got to like, you got to be in the top class, you got to go to a great college and you've got to like hit all these marks. And so that does bleed in sometimes. It just does. Fortunately, I could stop and go, whoa, what's going on here? What's going on here? And then I can decide, do I want to feed my heart or do I want to feed my ego?

Yeah, that's, uh, I, I love that. We're in the midst of wrapping up a program on, uh, called Live Your Legacy, which is helping people move from the first half of life where we do define ourselves by our accomplishments and by our salary and our status, and then moving into the second half of life where we're a little bit more interested in making a difference, serving, sacrificing, you know, less about ourselves and more about enhancing the lives of other people. And so that feels like it really plays into that. And I totally agree that it's, you know, it's not a— all this stuff that you're talking about is not a one-and-done exercise. You have to sweep the floor every day because every day all that, you know, all that cruft from institutionalized occupation and education is weaving its way back in. And we are very prone to falling back into the ruts of our narratives around, you know, defining ourselves by our status, our salary, and our stuff. So I love that you're bringing that level of consciousness in. As we're coming to the end of our time together, there's one final question that I always ask my guests, and that is around You've already shared a lot of insight and experience and wisdom around people that would, like you, like to be leveraging, you know, who they really are and what they're really good at and where they really belong to make a difference and make the difference only they can make. If there was just— if there's one habit or maxim, quote, idea that you have to leave our listeners with, who, like you, would like to forge a little bit more meaning in their lives through work that matters. What would you encourage them to do?

Take the risk. I think so many people out there— and I was one of those people who didn't think that I had the right to have a voice or that anybody wanted to hear it. And the reality is everybody's story is unique and nobody can take away anybody's personal experience. And so there are so many amazing stories out there and there are so many ways to make the world a better place. And so I would just say to people, step past your fear, do it anyway. You know, if you're worried people are going to judge you, they are. If you think people aren't going to rally for you, they won't. Who cares? Take a risk.

I love it. I love it. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. Bob and I really appreciate you lending us some of your valuable time and attention. And we hope today's broadcast invites you to take a bolder step into possibility, living your legacy. You can learn more about Bob and the great work that he's doing here at themoneynerve.com. And of course, always delightful to see you over at creativeonpurpose.com as well. Well. If you're listening to this as a podcast, please consider leaving a 5-star review. And now take the insight and inspiration from this conversation and fly higher in the difference only you can make. Bob Wheeler, thank you so much for lending us some of your wisdom and experience today.

Thank you so much, Scott Perry. Had a great time. Thank you.