Creative on Purpose Live - Diane Wyzga

Position. Please fasten your seatbelts. It says that we're alive, and my goodness, I feel alive. I hope you do. Welcome everyone to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher and the difference only you can make. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward! and A Compass: Helping Difference Makers Live Their Legacy at Akimbo Workshops and Creative on Purpose. You can visit creativeonpurpose.com to learn more. This season, we are drawing insight and inspiration from guests' successfully embracing uncertainty and navigating adversity and making things better doing work that matters. Let's meet today's guest, Diane Wizgad. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference that you're making.

Hey, Scott Perry, thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here. Let's see, people can call me a communicator, a collaborator, a confidante, a coach. You can call what I do marketing, branding, elevator pitching. Legacies, Keynotes, Rags to Riches to Rags. It's all story. What I work in is story broadly. Something was, something happened, and something is. And I do that with individuals and organizations using engaged storyism. I help them express their values and their hopes and their dreams, their aspirations. But we do it in effective communication. It can be verbal, it can be written. And the thing that, uh, I think I enjoy most about working with my clients is that I help them to discover their own words. I help them to discover their own natural storytelling ability and figure out the details of the story that are important to them to get across. So together we get to uncover and get really comfortable with the natural storyteller that they are inside And then they can take that out as a message in whatever form they need to.

Love that. And you can find Diane over there at quartermoonstoryarts.net. And then you'll also discover that she has a fantastic blog and a very successful, from all appearances, podcast going with over— what would you say? Over 365 episodes at this point?

I think it's— I think I posted 360 today in 15 months' time. Yeah, it's been a labor of love. So Monday through Friday, the daily 60 seconds. So I've managed to get a message of hope or imagination or wisdom or story out in 60 seconds with a little top it and tail it of music. And then twice a month, we have in-depth conversations with Women. It's a more, uh, an opportunity to hear from women who are walking their lives while their lives walk them.

I love that. Well, one of the things that I would love to explore with you, uh, first, because you and I share this love for, uh, story and recognition of the importance and value of stories, if, if you were asked to just simply define your terms, What, what, what, how do you define story? How do you think about story?

Huh. I'm going to put it really simply, and I did it in a quick riff. Story, in its simplest form, is something was, something happened, and something is. That's it. No matter what you look at in the world, you can reduce it to those three little elements. So that would be the framework of story. The reason I, I created engaged storyism is because I believe that when we are in story authentically and we are listening deeply with appreciation, listening intentionally and deliberately, then we are more engaged in the story than if we are simply reciting reciting words. And that's the other aspect of it. So, um, oftentimes, uh, not too very long ago, maybe 10, 15 years, business kind of conscripted story and said, okay, silver bullet story, we're gonna apply it to everything. And I think authentic storytelling got lost when that happened. And so one of my jobs is to bring it back to that engaged aspect. So that we're listening to each other. We are in a dialogue with each other. We're not simply reciting the words of something.

Yeah, I love that. So something was, something happened, and then the third piece was something is. Something is. I love that. Well, and I think you're absolutely spot on. That's a beautiful articulation because stories are are the way that change most often happens. And that can be, you know, in business and in life with our causes, with our beliefs and so forth. And so when you're talking about, when you're working with your clients, how do you get them to embrace the importance of story? Because So often we think that what people want to hear is the story of our— all the features and benefits, and then there's a story around price, and that is usually not what engages the right people to enroll and invest in whatever service or product that you offer.

I think it depends on the setting. So depending on the setting, that you need to deliver the story in, or the purpose of, of the story that you're trying to deliver, you are going to want to express something of yourself in there. And you're also— so the, the who am I, the who am I, and the importance of whatever it is that you want to convey to your listener, to your client, to your customer, that, you know, what's in it. What's in it for them? So I'll give you— let me give you a quick example of how you get to do that. So I was involved in litigation consulting for about 10 years. I had a practice known as Lightning Rod Communications, and in that particular setting, it was important to straddle two, like, two worlds, if you will. One was the world of winning the trial, because that was important for the client, and I represented the plaintiffs. And the other was to get the story across to the jury in a way that they understood that depending on the outcome, it could affect them. Juries want to put everything into squares. They work very hard to get the result that you're looking for. And so the best way that you can do that is to explain to them or show them in the form of a story what happened to someone, how it happened to them, and what the jury can do to turn that around. So again, you've got the what was, something happened, and then something is story going on.

Yeah, I really, I love that. And so you, you brought in two words that, um, I think are worth highlighting and We use stories very frequently to help persuade or to influence. And this is all also ways that we just, the ways that we connect. What's the value of story? Or what are some tips that you would share for people that want to get started trying to be more effective communicators by becoming more effective storytellers.

Could you give me an instance of— because that's a very broad question. So for example, they want to become better storytellers to their children, in their business, in their community?

I think you can choose any of those that— I think for the people that are viewing this broadcast, most of, most of the people that are tuning in would consider themselves difference makers. They're engaged in work that matters. They're engaged in trying to make things better with and for the right people. So for someone like that, someone that's trying to make a dent in the universe and trying to make things better, what would be some tips that you would lend for thinking more deeply about how to leverage the power of story to connect with the right people?

Go back into your life and find an event, a moment, an understanding, an aha that relates to what it is that you're trying to convey. And put that together into a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just start there. So one, so once upon a time, I love to start a story with once upon a time. Start there and just start telling that story to yourself. Throw it all down on the page. Don't worry about anything in terms of grammar or punctuation or whatever. Start your story with once upon a time and, and discover that story and see where it goes in terms of the message that you want to give the people who want to listen to you or who are going to listen to you. Show how an, an opportunity, a hardship, something that you overcame created that difference, that moment that said, oh, wait a minute, I got it. This can help people. Put that together. And then once you've got that moment down, that episode down, sharpen it a little, bring it down to its most essential point, which is that aha. It's like, this is what I learned. I bet you have a moment in your life where you learned something just like this. So if I show you my story, let's hear your story.

Love that. One of the things that, that leapt to mind when you were sharing that is, you know, when we're sharing a story that's relatable to the people that we want to serve, at least in, in some of the clients that I work with, they're trying to share the story about how confident they are, how expert they are, how the stories tend to be a little bit too perfect. Like they set themselves up, they set themselves up as the hero when what they really want to do is be the guide and allow the customer to be the hero. But they, but they, the default, I think, for a lot of us, especially in the age of social media, is let me paint the best picture of myself possible, as opposed to how can I paint a true picture that expresses my own vulnerability so that it's more relatable to people, to the people that I seek to serve. So I'm just curious about your thoughts around the role of vulnerability in telling the stories that we want to tell to help connect with the right people.

No, we're very simpatico there, Scott Perry. I think it's a natural instinct of humans to I want to say, here I am. And that takes into consideration that the other person is really the hero. So in the story, yes, your client, the person that you want to convey the message to, that person is going to be the hero in the story. So if it was a, this was, something happened, this is story, you can begin that process of saying, so once upon a time, I was overweight. And I took on this idea of mindfulness meditation and better eating and exercise. And so now I've managed to change my life around a little bit. So let's work together and see how that works in your life. I'm not— I think I'm coming— going off track here a little bit because the point that I want to get across is that the story has to begin in our own heads. With our own awareness of what we were able to overcome. And that, that is the piece of the vulnerability that has to be conveyed to the client. Where were we in a pit or some despair or something that we were able to climb out of with the help of friends, of colleagues, of cohorts? And with that vulnerability, And with that awareness, then you turn that around and say, I have an idea about how this can help you as well. When it comes to sharing vulnerability, you have to have your story pretty well worked out, meaning that your listener is not your therapist. Your listener— you want to give story as a gift to your listener. You don't want to have your listener holding out their hands, ready to catch you, thinking, "Oh my God, you're gonna fall." So for a very long time, I told a story about incest and being an incest survivor. You gotta have that work done pretty well so that you can tell that with emotion, but you're not going to fall apart in the telling of the story. So there is a very real moment of vulnerability, that you're conveying to the listener in that appropriate setting. And with that bit of vulnerability, you want to share with them how it was that you came to the awareness of what was going on, who helped you. And with that understanding, then the two of you, or whomever, begin to work out that issue, that problem for the listener. Does Does that make sense? Yeah, that—

no, makes absolute sense. And, and I think you just highlighted something that's really important. There's a difference between expressing and revealing some vulnerability, that, you know, you're not perfect and that you don't have all the answers and that you're not always right. And, and that, that's very different than, um, sharing raw and unprocessed trauma that challenge, difficulty, because that's, you know, story, story can be a powerful tool for just continuing to cycle on feelings of hopelessness, pain, suffering. So that the importance of sharing narratives about things that you've kind of worked through and telling them from the other side, as opposed to telling them from, you know, from the midst or for, you know, when you're still lost in the wilderness and feeling, feeling a sense of suffering. So that's, I think that's very, very important. The other thing that you shared just a little bit ago, I think is worth highlighting, which is you didn't say it exactly this way, but, and if I'm paraphrasing incorrectly, let me know. But it, what I was hearing was stories reveal or show stories don't tell, and, and that storytelling is, is much more about that kind of sharing and, um, not so much about dictating.

I like to tell people, um, over the decades, over the decades that I've taught and had clients, I do say this, that storytelling is therapeutic, but it's not therapy.

Mm.

And when it comes to the reveal part of it, that happens because the story that wants to be told and the story that wants to be heard reveals itself through the teller. I'm just a conduit. There were many occasions I was working in a domestic abuse shelter, and on Wednesday nights I would go and tell stories for the women there. And it was crafted as, you know, relaxation a little bit, or as much entertainment as you could get in that sort of setting. And I would go with an idea of this slate of stories I wanted to tell. And invariably, I would be sitting there, and I could hear, you know, tell this story, tell this story. And I hadn't planned to tell that story. And I told the story. And some woman would say, I can't believe, I can't believe you told me this story. I quote the Rabbi Israel Ben Eliezer because he says, he's found, he says, whenever, whenever you hear a story, you know, whether you're in a small setting or a big setting, you're to raise your eyes to God and say, why did you tell me this story? Why did you send this story to me at this time? That is how organic stories are. That is how real and living stories are. A story isn't something to be slapped on a product and force, you know, someone to buy that. A story is the reveal. The last thing I'll say about this is many of my cohorts who are storytellers when, when you heard them tell personal stories and you had been following them and you had been listening to them for a while, and if you paid attention, you would know by the stories they were telling what was going on in their lives. And so when you listen to my 60-second podcast, you know, Monday through Friday, every single week, uh, we're into 15 months of it now. If you pay attention to that you— and you know me— you'll hear what's important to me, what I'm discovering, what I'm trying to uncover or wrestle with or reveal, in the hope that it says something to you, whether it's wisdom or hope or imagination. So when I put my stories out there I'm putting myself out there. That's the reveal.

Yeah. Well, and I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. One of the things that I've learned in crafting stories and trying to craft better stories so I can make a bigger difference is I'm not really ultimately in charge of how the story lands. I'm not in charge of how the listener interprets. And so frequently I will have, have a desired interpretation in mind, and then when it's reflected, when a listener reflects back what they got, it can be something different but equally profound and useful because it's you, it's, it's what they are taking away.

That's precisely it. The, the teller who says, and the moral of this story is, should be taken off the stage with a hook. The difference The difference between if you and I and 5 other people told the same story, we were given a story to tell, it's the same story, and we all were to tell that same story, it would be different. And the reason it would be different is because of our interpretation, our inflection, our understanding. And so yes, you have to put that story out there with the expectation that the core message you want to deliver will be heard, but not necessarily in the way that you intended. I've, I've never failed to be surprised by what someone takes away from a story. And more importantly, when they ask, when they ask of a teller, is that story true? My answer has always been, does it sound true to you? And if they say yes, I'll ask them because, and now we have a dialogue going on the basis of that story. So that's how I've, 30 years, still working. Yeah.

Well, it just points to the, you know, there's between intention and impact, there's interpretation and everybody is telling themselves stories about themselves, about the situation. And about each other and stories about what each other is saying about us. So it's— there's all these layers of and filters going on that make, uh, make storytelling always rich. And the same story told in different contexts, different audiences, can, can have completely different, um, it can just land completely differently. Um, and that's, that's okay.

Well, it's a point that you bring up which I want to clarify. So yes, there is a version of the story of Cinderella told all over the world. No matter where you go, everybody knows Cinderella. Might not be told exactly the same way, but the— but if you were to hear it told somewhere around the globe, you would understand it as a story of Cinderella. When it comes to conflicting narratives, when it comes to overlapping narratives, That is where we really have to pull on our story listening skills because there are so many narratives, as you say, narratives out there that are intertwined. We are more in common than we are not, I believe, and yet we have to be aware that in some places there might be prevailing narratives that suppress, oppress, or overcome other narratives. So one of the tools of story is to elicit or listen out other narratives. So I tell people I'm a story doula. You know, it's a midwife. And so I'm just listening out the stories. When my clients come to me and ask to help, for help with the story, I'm listening that story out of them that they already know that they want to tell, even though they don't know they want to tell it, if that makes sense. You already know the story you want to tell. You already know the story that needs to be heard. You just need someone with artful questions and deliberate listening to doula that story out of you.

Yeah, well, I think you're absolutely correct. I mean, we are storytelling creatures. It's how we've always made sense of the world and ourselves and each other. So, you know, unfortunately, we don't always trust our instincts and intuition the way that we did when we were younger. That's really profound. So as we're arriving at the end of our time together, I have two, two questions I'd still like to ask you, Diane. The first is, I'm wondering if if there is a moment where, in your professional life as, uh, in this work, where you experienced a misfortune or a mistake or a learning opportunity. You can frame, frame it however you want, but is there, was there a moment where you tried something that didn't work as intended or where you experienced a real challenge or misfortune? Um, and were you able to derive some important lesson that improved the way that you, um, approached your work afterward?

Yeah, um, when you're involved in the world of litigation consulting, you're given something very important to hold, which is the life of someone who was injured, harmed in some way, or the family, because someone they loved had, had died. And it's up to you to help the lawyer carry that story to the jury and get a good result. And there were times where we just didn't. The story probably could have been sharper, it could have been better, it could have been clearer, it could have been fill in the blank. Or we could have gotten a better jury. And those are heartbreaking because you invest many, many months and you're working intimately not only with the, with the trial team but also with the plaintiffs. And to have the jury come back and render a verdict that is not in their favor— I have gone down elevators with women weeping on my shoulder, and I would weep with them. And so you do go back and say, what could have been better? What could have been different? What could have been? What came out— what also comes out of it, though, is an awareness that none of us are the same after this. All of us had an opportunity to work together on behalf of someone who needed us and work together using story as the tool to convey, and that never leaves. So even though you could have done things better and will do them better in the future, what you learned together in that setting, that remains, and that nobody can tease out of you.

Yeah, well, that's beautifully articulated. I mean, the, the we are never ultimately in control of the outcomes, but we can control the narrative. We can, we do have some ability to, one of the things that we say at Creative on Purpose frequently is choose your story, choose your future. And if you're telling yourself a story that's not serving you or helping you navigate the vicissitudes of life, you can choose to start to craft a different narrative that will help you live into the possibility that you are hoping to, or that you aspire to live into. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Beautiful. So last question. You've already shared plenty of wisdom and some tips for helping people like us who are seeking to make a bigger difference and to tell better stories do this. But if there's just one last tip piece of advice, something that would help people who aspire like you to make a bigger difference in the world. What is one tip that you would— one final tip that you would leave our listeners with?

60 Seconds for Story Prompt Friday always leaves the listener with a story question, a prompt. And that prompt is designed to get you to either write a story on your own behalf or write it with someone else and then share it. The idea behind that being start at a place of uncovering and discovering your own stories in many different ways and then turn that around to someone else. You don't have to necessarily reveal your story to them, But invite the story out of someone else and do that from a place of deliberate appreciation. So I would say that's a good place to begin right there.

That's fantastic. I love it. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Diane and I really appreciate you lending us some of your, some of your valuable time and attention. We hope today's broadcast motivates you to lean into an endeavor that matters with a little more Curiosity and Courage. And you can learn more about Diane and her fantastic work here at quartermoonstoryarts.net. And of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com. Now, take the insight and inspiration from this conversation and keep flying higher in the difference only you can make. Diane, thank you so much for your time and sharing the difference that you're making.

Thank you, Scott Perry. It was my pleasure to be here. Absolutely wonderful.

Likewise.