Creative on Purpose Live - Leslie Ehm

We are traveling across the ether at the speed of bytes. It says we're live. How do you feel? I feel alive. How about you, Leslie?

I've never felt more alive in my entire life. This is it.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. Start living your legacy. Visit creativeonpurpose.com and let's get going with the difference only you can make by joining the Better Decisions mini-course. 3 simple questions to help you bust through indecisiveness, overwhelm, and confusion. Remember that this broadcast is also an iTunes podcast. Check it out and leave a 5-star review. 30 seconds of your generosity helps spread the goodness delivered by my guests. Now let's get to today's show. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher and the difference only you can make. Ready to live your legacy? Endeavor better. It's time to be creative on purpose. Are you ready? Let's go. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward and difference maker coach at Akimbo Workshops and Creative on Purpose. Don't die with the difference only you can make inside. Visit creativeonpurpose.com to learn how to start living your legacy today. This season, we're drawing insight and inspiration from guests who are successfully embracing uncertainty, navigating adversity, and making things better, doing work that matters. Let's meet today's guest, Leslie M. Welcome to the broadcast. Tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference that you're making?

Well, I am very proud to be the, the soon-to-be-released book Swagger, as you can see behind me, Unleash Everything You Are and Become Everything You Want. I'm a speaker, swagger coach. I'm the founder of Combustion Training. And I love that you're talking about legacy work because that's, that's everything that I believe in, that it's what you do today has to last and you have to put your entire self and your entire being into making that lasting legacy. You can find me on all the socials. I exist on all the socials. So it's LeslieM.com, SwaggerTheBook.com. You can find me at @LeslieMSpeaks on Instagram, @LeslieMSpeaks on Facebook, @LeslieM on LinkedIn, and @LeslieM on Twitter. I told you I was on all the socials.

That's fantastic. Well, congratulations on the impending publication of your book. And I would love to learn a little bit more about the origin story. What got you to where you are now? And what is SWAGGR for? Who's it for? And what's the promise that it's making?

I launched my first training company about 13 years ago. And what I wanted to do was to help people be better in their work and in their lives the very next day. A really practical, transformational kind of training experience that I could deliver. And I really hit on a nerve. My company, Combustion, trains all over the world. I got a team of amazing people. It's fantastic. But beyond having to learn all about the training world, it taught me so much about human nature, human behavior, what holds us back, and what drives us. I had the immense honor and pleasure of training all over the world. But it did not seem to matter the country, the culture, the level of individual, their status, their expertise. Fundamentally, at people's core, they didn't seem to believe that they could unleash everything they were and reveal who they truly were and still find success. They didn't think that they were really good enough at their, at their very core to merit what they were dreaming of. This, when I had this revelation, it first of all broke my heart because it's the opposite of everything that I believed to be true. And I thought, aha, this is what I need to focus all of my work on. So I started to lay it through and into all of the training that I did and helped people to kind of hold a mirror up to who they were when they were unleashed and at their most powerful and the kind of impact that it had on the other people in the workshops and on how they felt about their own experience. I called this factor, swagger. When I saw it, when I saw people have that lightbulb moment of, I'm stepping into something, I'm being particularly brave, or I'm revealing something about myself that I didn't think that I could, I would go, there it is. That's your swagger. That's the thing. And over time, I started to collect these amazing stories and I learned, I really started watching what was holding people back and what was helping to unleash that swagger. And because I come from a training background, I wanted to be really practical and pragmatic about this. I didn't want it to be fluffy wuffy airy fairy. I wanted it to be cloning myself literally and having a book that could really support people. And that's what Swagger is. It's sort of part guidebook, part manifesto, a little sweary, very inspirational, but most of all, very practical. And it holds your hand through the process of unleashing that swagger into the world. And I think it's important for me to define what swagger really is, because when you say the word swagger, you tend to think of that arrogant, show-off, in-your-face, peacocky, kind of fake it till you make it vibe. That is not the swagger that I'm talking about. My kind of swagger is the ability to manifest who you really are and hold on to it in the face of all of that psychological crap that's going to come for it, regardless of the situation or environment. So it's about having one face, one truth, and showing up the same and not letting the people around you take that away from you, no matter what happens.

Yeah, I love it. Lots of really interesting themes and threads to pull on here. So one of the things that I'm hearing is that swagger is that we, we engage our swagger when we actually like own our agency over our possibility of tapping into our potential while we're developing our potential. Is that a fair takeaway?

Yeah. And I think that this concept, this notion of potential, even in and of itself, can be a self-limiting belief because you are already everything that you need to be. Yeah, you might have things to learn. I mean, we all do. That's what life is for. It's this ongoing journey of learning and discovery and so on and so forth. But so many people think that that's coming. That they'll get there eventually, as opposed to saying, I believe in who I am and all of the abilities that I have today, and that it's going to take me to where I want to go. I just got to do the work. That's all I got to do. But nothing can stop me. Nothing can hold me back.

Yeah, at Creative on Purpose, we use this phrase, I am sufficient even as I strive. Like, actually, you're already enough the way you are. But that doesn't mean that that's all you have to be. You can, you can aspire to and reach for better. I, and, and what I was also hearing is that one of the things that gets people kind of disconnected or out of touch with their swagger, I think you meant, I don't know if you use this word, but it's what I wrote down, worthiness, like our, our, our sense that we are We are worth investing in ourselves. And I think one of my favorite quotes of all time is Goethe's quote, "As soon as you trust yourself, you'll know how to live." And we talk a lot about trust in these days. We want to earn customer trust. And, but how can you possibly trust someone else or earn someone else's trust if you haven't yet done that yourself? And so what do you think it is that disconnects people and distances themselves from that sense of trusting themselves and that sense of self-worth?

We all come into the world as the badass, swagger-filled, complete humans that we have the potential to be. You ask any kid if they're awesome, they'll go, "Yeah, I'm the most awesome thing on the planet. I'm beautiful. I'm smart. I'm capable. I could do anything." And then life has a way of kicking the crap out of us. And slowly, inexorably, we just get chipped away at. And even by people who love us very much, even by people with the best intentions. Our parents, as a result of their own experience, could say, be careful, don't be too loud, be careful, don't show off too much, be careful, you know, don't aim too high. Our siblings, our friends, our first, you know, boyfriend or girlfriend, our first boss, or, you know, education system. It all takes its toll. And we are, we are seen through the, through the lens of other people and what their fears are and their insecurities are, and they are imposed upon us. And over time, we can't see the wood for the trees. You know, we don't know what is legitimate for us and what is the stuff that's been imposed upon us. All we know is that we are filled with a combination of insecurity and fear and pain, and, and all of those things really limit us. I mean, I've identified 5 hardcore blockers that That stop our swagger. But fundamentally, we take on all of the weight and the damage of the people around us. And we stop remembering that it's not— those things are not about us. Those things are about the other people who've experienced those things. And even if they're trying to be helpful, sometimes they're not. But as a result of their own damage, their own issues, their own insecurity, they impose that stuff on us and we get trapped by it. We get stuck, you know. We protect the real us deep inside because it's a scary place out there, you know. It could be a scary place to, to reveal who you, who you really are, lest you get a beatdown. Nobody wants to get a beatdown.

Yeah, well, that's the thing is we're fighting biology and evolution. We've been programmed by both biology and evolution to, you know, remain humble and hiding. Don't stand up You know, don't, don't stand to be seen. Don't speak up to be, or to be heard. You might get thrown out of the tribe and let be eaten by saber-toothed tigers.

That's right. That's right.

So it really all comes down to, to fear and maybe that's resistance. Maybe that's imposter syndrome. Maybe that's the fear of being seen as an imposter. What are some of the tips? So it sounds like Swagger. I love that you called it a handbook. It's what I call all of my books. What are some of the— you said it's pragmatic and practical. What are some of the tips that you share in Swagger that will help people kind of push through, lean into this fear and step into their potential and start living their legacy in the way that you frame it?

There are so many. I'm going to try and pick a really juicy one. I think The one of the first things that we can do for ourselves is to recognize where we're getting stuck. A lot of reasons why people— it's not that they don't want to unleash who they are. It's not that they don't want to learn how to speak their truth in this world and so on. It's that they don't know where to begin. It's really overwhelming. It's a lot. So the first thing is to understand where am I most getting stuck? That's why I created this visual model so we could see it and kind of plot our journey and our course and go, oh yeah, that's my big thing. That's the thing that's really holding me back. So I think that's really important. And that's why I say that Swagger is as much about self-acceptance as it is about self-assuredness. And self-acceptance only comes through self-awareness. So we need to be aware of what's holding us back so that we can move forward. The other thing that you will know as a creativity guru is that the brain operates best when you challenge it with facts. Opinion, supposition, that doesn't really change us. So we need to have something really concrete to shift that prove model in our brain because according to the brain, only that which has been tested and proven equals good. If it has not been tested and proven, the brain has that default better safe than sorry system. So it will always assume the worst unless you give it something to hold onto that is proof-based. So when we're talking about those negative voices in your head, that podcast from hell that keeps playing over and over again, that is that culmination of all those negative voices that you've picked up over years that have become integrated and you think they're your voices, that it's your story. What, what we want to do is give that podcast something else to play. It needs a different talk track because our brains are going to talk to us. That's our psyche. We can't, we can't just say, shut it. I don't want to hear it anymore. Go away. It'll, it'll leak out. So we need to literally record over it and give it an alternative track to play. So I have an exercise that I use with a lot of my clients and it's called Dear Loser. What I get them to do is to write a letter to themselves from their inner saboteur, that inner critic, that negative crappy voice that speaks to them on a regular basis. And I say to them, let rip, like pull that monster out of the closet into the light and let's get on paper all the horrible terrible things that it says to you on a daily basis. I like to give it a voice too. Mine sounds like the Grinch. Dear loser, you don't know anything. You know, all of that stuff. So we get it out on paper, super cathartic. I encourage people to like go to a quiet place, you know, because there may be tears. It's very It's very cathartic. Once they have it on paper, I then have them break that letter down line by line by line using just facts. Facts and proof points. No, I don't agree with you. You're not nice. I'm a nice person. I want proof points. So we then have this alternate version like any good lawyer would do. Just builds the case for why you actually are awesome and you actually do have the competence that you're afraid that you don't. And you do have all of these things that you can use historically to solidify the things that are true about you. And once they've done that, we go, okay, that's like the rough— that's the rough cut of all that stuff. And then I get them to reduce it into a swagger mantra, something short and sharp that they can use to represent that bigger— the bigger script, but to stop that negative voice in its tracks. Because we cannot even let it get started. As soon as we hear, "Dear Lucy, I am a Swagger-filled badass with 25 years of experience who's had 12 promotions, so take that." You know, whatever it is, whatever the truth of your story is, we just keep throwing it back in that inner critic's face. And over time, what happens is when situations occur, It's this, "Wait a second, I'm a badass professional with 25 years of spe— I don't think so." And we start to hear the story that is our own because we are not our history. We are the stories that we tell ourselves. And everyone has sufficient proof and facts in their history. They just don't look at them as a cumulative story. You know, they only look at like, they forget the moments, those swagger moments that they have been the most proud of and the things that they've most accomplished. Close. Because when we're, when we're at our most vulnerable and weakest, it's hard to, it's hard to excavate them. So you need to have it at the ready, you know, right away, as soon as, as soon as hard things happen. So that's just one of the many, the many things.

I love it. Creative on Purpose, we, we have one of our mantras is choose your story, choose your future. Easy. It's simple to choose it, to change your story. It just happens to not be very easy. And I love that you have this very practical practice that you can do over time because that's what it takes. It's like you have to develop this muscle for putting fear in its place because the fear never goes away, but you can get it to the point where it's just pouting in the corner while you're getting on, you know, living your— or leaning into your destiny. I love all that. One of the things that comes up over and over again in these conversations with people like you that are making a profound difference in the world is that you're empowering people to do something that you struggled with in your own past is the theme that's come up. You know, we're all, we've all scratched our own itch and now we're just helping others fast track to the solution. I'm wondering if you're willing to share, you know, was there a moment in your life where you could have used all the great advice and all the guidance that you're delivering in Swagger? And how did you arrive at this point where now you are teaching people how to avoid the things that you've struggled with in the past?

I was actually very fortunate that I was raised in a household that really supported my authenticity, that encouraged me to be everything that I was because I did not fit in. I was super bright, super precocious, completely hyperactive, very, um, very creative. I didn't respond well to authority. Life was not easy for me. I, I was always in trouble in school. They would— they would— they didn't know what to do with me because I would— because I was super bright, but I wouldn't conform and I wouldn't follow the rules. And I was really challenging and really irreverent and all of those things, I was very, very fortunate that my mother in particular said, "Do you, boo. The world will catch up with you. Do you." But it didn't mean that it made it easier to deal with all of those other people. Because I was not for everyone. And I didn't know how to dim my light. It wasn't in my DNA. So it was very, very painful for me because a lot of people didn't accept me. I didn't fit the mold of the nice Jewish Montreal suburban girl. Back in the late '70s when I was rocking my purple mohawk. And I was not getting a lot of love. It was not cute. But what I did do was that I said, look, life is going to be painful no matter what. It's going to be painful if I hide who I am. It's going to be painful if I show who I am. But which one is going to serve me better? Which one is going to build me into a more complete human being? And I put my middle finger up to the world and I said, I'm not going to be for everyone, and that is going to be okay. Because for those, those that get it and those who dig it, I'm going to make a difference for those people. And I always knew that. I always— my goal from, you know, from a long, long, long time ago was to be in service. I wanted to help people. I love, I love people with such a passion. It hurts me deeply when I see people suffering, and I want to use my superpowers to help them to be better. So I think that's how it translates. I don't— I didn't want anyone to ever feel that they weren't good enough. I just— it's an unnecessary state of being. And I imagine what a world filled with swagger would be like, or that was filled with this self-acceptance, which then leads to the acceptance of others, allowing others to have the space to speak their truth and to support it, to bring the best out of people. So to get them their most productive selves, to help them to experience a greater sense of progress, to make them feel like they can make a contribution and that they're important in this world. I mean, this is not a rehearsal, this life that we get. We get one go around the carousel. That's it. And any time spent like suffused with self-doubt or, or burdened by, by this notion of persona and that I can't I can't be who I am, I have to hide, is just— it's a waste of this precious, precious time. And I've seen for 13 years, I've seen for a fact that when people do face down those fears, that insecurity, that pain, that ambition, that persona, all of those blockers, and they do unleash who they are, it is a magical transformation. And they are so much happier, you know, that's, that's— they're so much happier. That's really what I, what I wanted to do for the world, because I know how painful it, it felt to not, to not feel like I could do that. And I did it anyway, but it was painful, man, I tell you.

Yeah, in the Akimbo workshops, um, that Seth teaches, he often talks about smallest viable audience and, um, serving the most difficult customer. So the smallest viable audience is, is the, the actual number, number of people in your sphere of connection and influence who need you to show up and, you know, who's, who share your values and need your talents and need you to show up to enhance their lives. And then the toughest customer is always ourselves. We have to, you know, we have to start with who. And the who we need to start with first is ourselves.

I experienced that when I had my first training company and then I sort of relaunched it into this different company. At the time, I had a partner and he was kind of going to be the business end of the partnership. He had very, very strong ideas about how we should be positioning ourselves and marketing ourselves and how should this company called Combustion speak and everything. And he wanted to make it super hardcore business-centric because he said that's where the money is and that's where the audience is going to be. And I'd always been very authentic with the brand that I had built to that point with my previous training company. And every time we would have these conversations, my whole insides would just scream. And I would say, I understand the logic of what you're saying, but I do not believe that I'm going to resonate with my people. I think I'm going to be attracting the wrong audience. So yes, we'll have customers, but will I be able to go and do my good work for those customers. And I made the decision to sever the partnership. And I said, we're not on the same page. And I went on to launch Combustion by myself. And I can— and I did it authentically. It'd be— you go to combustionco.com, you will see the way the brand screams who it really is. It is unapologetic. It is, you know, it's got swagger up the yin-yang. And the impact that it had on our customers was so profound because our customers are just human beings. It doesn't matter that they're business leaders or they're HR professionals. They're just people. And all I had to do was connect with a certain aspect of people. So I focused on that instead of saying, what is the role of my customer? I said, what is the mindset and the heartset of my customer? That's what I looked at. And then let them come. And they came. They came. Yeah.

Yeah. It's when I, when I hear people talking about, you know, well, I'm a B2B business or I'm a B2C business or whatever. It's like, I think H2H, human to human.

Yes.

Only humans can sell to humans and only humans can buy from humans.

Preach. Preach. I've had, I can't tell you how many workshops that I have said those very words, like Do you think there's a thing called the business making decisions? A thing? It's like this separate entity. It's like a machine in the corner that's got an algorithm and you put information. No, it's a human being who's trying to figure it out just like you. So if you connect with them authentically as a human being, you got a much better crack at convincing them that you're right for them.

Yeah, well, the legend or the common thinking is, as there's this little homunculus in our brain that's all reasonable and logical and rational. And actually, that's— there's— I know of nobody that actually is that way. And, you know, we're beautifully conflicted, irrational, emotional beings. And so, yeah, and I love what you're talking— the way you're talking about, you know, it's storytelling, it's connection, it's authenticity, it's authenticity of expression. It's all really important stuff. Well, Leslie, We're nearing the end of our time together. I always end these interviews with the same question. I'm ready. You are making a profound difference in the world by doing the work that only you can do and making the difference only you can make with and for the right people. We have a lot of people tuning in and will tune into the replay that are here to level up in the difference only they can make. What's one final— and you've delivered plenty already, but is there a final tip or piece of advice that you'd leave listeners with if they are ready to fly higher in an endeavor that makes a difference?

I'm going to assume that a lot of the people watching and listening are aspiring to build a business or who have a business and who want to increase the relevance of that business. We have a tendency to look to other businesses to see what they're doing. And then, we say, well, that must be the right way to do it. So, I'm going to do it too. As soon as you do that, you cease to become differentiated or unique. It takes a massive amount of courage— excuse me— to embrace you yourself as the key indicator of your brand. Excuse me. But if you have the courage to do that, then there will never be a company who can truly compete with you. You will always be offering something different and unique. It's the best marketing secret on the planet, but it takes a lot of courage because, you know, you say, well, I, you know, if I'm, if I follow other people's rules, they must have it right. Well, it might be right for them, but it may not be right for you. So trust your instincts and let as much of you infuse your brand as possible, because by definition it will differentiate you and make you more valuable Plus, if people know exactly what they're getting, they'll never be disappointed, ever.

Yeah, I love it. Profound words to end on. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. Leslie and I really appreciate you lending us some of your valuable time and attention. We hope today's broadcast motivates you to lean into an endeavor that matters with greater curiosity and courage. You can learn more about Leslie M. at lesliem.com. It's just right there below in the banner. And of course, it's always great to see you at Creative Entrepreneurship purpose.com as well. Now, take the insight and the inspiration from this conversation and start flying higher in the difference only you can make. LeslieAnn, thanks so much for your time and for all the wisdom you shared with us today.

Always a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thanks.