Creative on Purpose Live with Jeff Leisawitz

cross the ether at the speed of bytes. Please put your tray in the upright position and fasten your seatbelt. It says we are live. It looks like all the checkmarks are checked. We are indeed where we're supposed to be. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher and the difference only you can make. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward! and a compass helping advancing difference makers lead themselves and live their legacy. You can find me at Akimba Workshops and at creativeonpurpose.com. This season, we're drawing insight and inspiration from guests successfully navigating adversity and embracing uncertainty while making things better, doing work that matters. Let's meet today's guest, Jeff Lysowitz. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference that you make?

Sure. Well, I am Jeff Lysowitz. I am a coach for creative types. And heart-driven solopreneurs. I'm out in Seattle. I've got a book, Not Effing Around: The No BS Guide for Getting Your Creative Dreams Off the Ground. So what do I do? I help people to uplevel their creativity, both with their creativity specifically and then their business around that. So one of my key philosophies, I guess, is that at its best, creativity is a way for us to be seen, expressed, healed, and connected. So what am I talking about with that? So to be seen in this world, we are— I believe we are generally not seen that much on the outer level. Walking down the street in the city, obviously you're not particularly seen, or driving around. Or even on the internet, right? The next level is your acquaintances, maybe your coworkers, people like that. And yeah, maybe they kind of know you and get you, but generally not too much. And oftentimes they don't even care that much. Then you've got the third level, which is your, you know, your deep connections, your family, your friends, your lovers, your, you know, whatever, that stuff. So hopefully they do get you and they understand you. But oftentimes, in my experience, they only see parts of you. So that is the seen part. What do I mean by expressed? Well, to be expressed, in my definition, is simply moving from the potential to the actual, right? So an example for that is the dancer who knows all the moves, right? But on this particular Saturday night, she's sitting in the corner while the disco ball is spinning and the music is thumping, right? In that moment, she's not expressed, but when she hits the dance floor, she is then expressed in that moment. So when we are then expressed with our creativity or with our business, right? Because business is a very creative endeavor. There is then a sense of healing. And what I mean by healing is, you know, there can be certainly a catharsis, catharsis. There's plenty of, you know, catharsis in writing and dancing and music and all kinds of things like that. Um, but it can also be simply just a coming together, a sort of whole, you know, bringing, bringing yourself back to a holistic, um, you know, moment. So, you know, again, in music— I know you're a, you know, musician there, Scott Perry Perry Perry— what, where is the healing in a love song? I would say it is in letting go of all the loneliness that came before that love song could be authentically written. So when you are, when you are seen, expressed, and healed through an authentic creation, right, you then give your gift to the world. And when I say the world, I'm not talking about Madison Square Garden, the top of the charts, and all that kind of stuff, although that's great if you, you know, if that happens. But this might even mean 1 or 2 people, or you're following on, uh, you know, on the internet or whatever. But here's where it gets really cool. When you give your gift to the world, you then become the gift, because you show others that they can be seen, expressed, and healed. And when that happens, this connects us all together, right? Because that's what great art and great businesses do. They help us connect in such a way that we understand that we are all in this together and that my struggles are different from your struggles. But number one, we all have struggles, and thematically, all of our struggles are basically the same, right? You know, the way I got dumped in high school Right. Is not the way you got dumped in high school. But guess what? We both got dumped in high school. Right. So that is, that's kind of my philosophy on this. You know, my core philosophy and my coaching. Yeah.

I love it. Well, it's, and it's great to, to be speaking to somebody that puts creativity at the center of their process and of their work. And so I love that idea of being seen, expressed, and healed. That seems like what I'm hearing is that that's kind of what creativity is for. And I appreciate all that. I want to tease some of, some things out of each of those examples that you gave, but I'd like to get like all the way down to the very basic principle is what, how do you, how do you define creativity in your enterprise?

Creativity, I believe it's You know, people get confused about what that means. And, you know, oftentimes people think creativity is, is the skills that, you know, commonly known as creative people do, like painting. Oh, that painter is creative, or that musician is creative, or that again, the dancer, the writer, right? And those are definitely creative endeavors, but those are actually skills that are connected to the creativity. So what is creativity? Creativity, in my mind, is simply taking disparate elements, uncommon elements, and putting them together in a way that expresses something or works in a different way or has some kind of utility, right? When we do that, we're being creative. We're, we're doing essentially something uncommon, something that hasn't happened before. And when we do that, we essentially expand the world, right? We, we are making something new, whether that's a poem or a business idea.

Yeah, I love that. At Creative on Purpose, we just talk about it as creativity is the human-to-human enterprise of making change happen. And so creativity is a natural, instinctual human impulse. That unfortunately institutional education, institutional working, uh, society has, has either beaten out of us or sucked out of us or made sure that we are distracted enough to never actually, uh, pay attention to. And so I love, uh, what you were saying about connecting different disciplines to make something new happen. I feel like that's really true. And you mentioned Creating a gift or sharing a gift and becoming the gift. And I really, really love that because I think that creativity at its essence is a generous enterprise. It is the sharing of a gift. I used to say when I was teaching guitar to my students, because part of my discipline was making sure my students got in front of people and performed, shared their gift as soon as possible. And of course, regardless of age, there's a lot of fear and anxiety around that first time you're going to be on stage sharing your gift. And I would just say, serve the song, don't make the song serve you, because the song is not for you. It's not there to make you feel good or feel important or give you attention or accolades or applause. The song is there as a vehicle for you to express yourself to someone else to help build that connection. I don't know if you're familiar with, um, Steven Pressfield's The Artist's Journey, but he says— he talks a lot about the hero's journey in, uh, The War of Art and Turning Pro and his other books. And then in The Artist's Journey, he talks about life is a series of hero's journeys, but when the hero when the hero's journey ends, they have the gift and the gift is being presented to the community. Then the artist's journey is then just beginning. Uh, so I don't know if any of that resonates with, with your approach, but I, that's what I was hearing in what you were saying is like artist's job. The creative's job is to take that gift and put it out into the world to try to make that change and that transformation happen to make that healing happen as, as you were kind of alluding to.

Absolutely. I love that. And it reminds me of this story, you know, in talking about your guitar students and performing, like it's not about you, it's about the music, right? So I'm a huge fan of the band U2. Okay. So I saw this interview with Bono years ago and the interviewer asks him, so what's it like when you step out in front of 40,000 people who are screaming and going bananas? For you, right? And he says this, he says, you know what, I used to think they were cheering for me, but eventually, as he got older and matured a bit, I suppose, he, he realized that they're not really cheering for him, they're cheering for the way the music makes them feel. And that is an ex— I thought that was such an extraordinary concept for a guy who's, you know, certainly in the position to have an enormous ego, to be able to understand that it's not really about him, it's really about the connection of the music to these millions and millions of fans all over the world. So I was really struck by that.

Yeah, well, it's interesting how before we got on camera, uh, we were talking a little bit about our, our past, and I shared that I was a performing musician for over 30 years. That's how I supported my family and, and, you know, bought houses and cars and put my kids through school. And along the— so, and obviously I'm not a household— I'm You know, I'm not Bono, obviously. Um, never really set out to be. Um, but I remember along the way I was very, very blessed to really actually meet every single one of my heroes. And I was performing mostly in the, in the blues idiom and blues festivals and blues venues and things like that. But I literally got to meet Every single one of my living heroes. And what was really amazing is how at the level that I was at, which I call the messy middle, there was so much bitterness and frustration and anger and, you know, people feeling like they weren't getting the attention they deserved or the money they deserved or the gift they deserved. And then, but when I would speak to people at the higher level, not always, but very, very often, I was struck by the level of gratitude and humility and appreciation they had for all the gifts that fate had bestowed upon them. And I remember having a conversation with Paul Rochelle, who is an acoustic blues guitar player, at a time when I was working in that domain. And he got onto Prairie Home Companion, which was a big deal if you were, uh, kind of an Americana musician. At that time. And I said, Paul, it's amazing you made it to Prairie Home Companion. Your, your career is complete. And he's like, you know, Scott, I gotta tell you, it's, uh, same shit, different venue. That was absolutely brilliant because he was just doing his damn job, and it just so happened that maybe thousands of people heard him on that particular day at that particular— but nothing changed for him in terms of the way he was showing up everywhere else in the world and, and really the level of, uh, achievement and success or, or fame that he achieved. Um, and so I just love that, that story you said about Bono because the best musicians always, to me, have always had a little bit of that humility and appreciation and gratitude and recognition that it didn't have to turn out this way.

It definitely did not have to turn out that way for any of them. I mean, you know, the alternate reality for a lot of those people, and, you know, all of us, you know, in different ways, is, you know, could be a lot worse.

Yeah. Well, the other thing that we talked about off camera that I, I'd love to just touch on is, um, you, you were kind of famous there for a second in the digital music world. Uh, tell us a little— go ahead and share with the viewers the story of how that experience you had when you first got to Seattle and were working for the radio station that kind of broke the grunge thing, right?

Sure. So I've always been a writer and I've always loved music, and I am a musician. Um, so, you know, when I was in college, through a long story that we don't need to hear, I figured out that I could get free CDs, you know, when there were CDs, being a music journalist in college. So I got all these free CDs, you know, I sort of built my career going forward as, you know, a music reviewer, concert reviewer, all that kind of stuff. I got to Seattle and, you know, through what had to be divine intervention, I got this job. I walked in looking to be an intern you know, I was 24 years old or something, walked in trying to be an intern at the big radio station in Seattle that had just broken grunge music to the world. It was literally the, the biggest taste-making station in the world at the time. And, uh, I somehow managed to get a job being the writer for the website for this radio station, which This is the mid-'90s. This is before almost everyone had even heard of a website. You know, maybe a little bit about the internet, this and that, but it was not a big deal. So I had the great fortune to work for this radio station to create a website by interviewing all these bands and going to all these shows. And, you know, I thought I got a lot of free CDs before that. They were coming in by the truckload at that point. So that was really fun and a great experience and, you know, put me in the middle of that scene and, you know, helped me understand the music business more and just all that stuff. So it was really quite the thrill of my, you know, 20s.

That's— I love that story. It's just— and, and, you know, one of the things about a creative journey is you can set a point on the horizon, you can have an aim or aspiration, uh, and make it as specific as you want. But if you don't pay attention to the inevitable obstacles and opportunities that you could never have anticipated that are going to cross your path as you're heading to that point on the horizon, you're gonna miss out on some extraordinary opportunities. And so I love that you went in with this specific intention and got something almost— well, something way, way better. Than what you intended.

Absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, to quote our friend Mick, you can't always get what you want, but you try sometimes to get what you need. And then it's really true, if you focus your intention and your truth and step forward with, you know, fearlessness and vulnerability and courage and all that kind of stuff, you are going to get to something beautiful eventually, right? And by the way, it's not just getting— it's not just being at the thing that's beautiful. It is getting to the thing. It's the process, right? You know, if I learned one thing in college, it was process over product. It's, you know, going to the thing, doing the thing is actually where the action is. It's in that moment. Yeah.

Well, and you said it almost exactly the way that we would articulate it at Creative on Purpose. You're not entitled to the results and the rewards. Those, those outcomes are beyond your absolute control. The only thing within your control is how you frame your situation, what you decide to do next. And if you engage in the effort with intention and integrity, or I think you said intention and truth, then The effort becomes the reward, the process becomes the reward, and the outcomes are just the icing on the cake. And exactly that. So we've talked a little bit about, about a success in your career. I'd like to flip it around and wonder if there was— there a moment where you made, you know, where you experienced a failure or a mistake and, you know, I mean, some anytime. I'm sure if you're like me, you've already had a few today. But was there a moment as intense or profound as you're willing to share where you really gleaned an important lesson or insight, or maybe you even flipped a failure or mistake into some sort of opportunity? But I'd love to hear a story around that.

Absolutely. Thank you for that opportunity. So Yes, failure. I mean, I could list them, you know, A to Z or 1 to 10,000 or, you know, whatever, right? But I'll just give you one really big one. So as a musician, I had been dreaming literally since I've been 15 years old to get a record deal and really step that up and, you know, do my thing. In 2008, I managed to get 3 international record deals. Sweet, right? Like, this was like about— my thing was about to pop in a big way. Guess what happens? 2008 happens. One of these record companies completely goes bankrupt, the other one drops me immediately, and the other one screwed it up so bad that I had to, you know, get out of the deal. It was an absolute, like, it felt like a death. Like, I mean, I can hardly even describe it because it was like this singular moment of like, oh my God, it's like, this is really gonna happen. And then the rug gets pulled completely out from under me. So what do I do? Well, I kind of life coach myself, which is, you know, probably why I'm doing all this. You know, life coaching stuff to begin with. And that is to remember that failure, what we often call failure, is really just feedback, right? If you reframe the concept, whatever it is, instead of failure, it's feedback. Ask questions. What can you do to change it? X, Y, Z. And then iterate and move forward. So what did I do? I got the, you know, first of all, I took a breath and, you know, probably cried in the corner for a while. And after that, Um, got it together. I got my rights back for this thing, and I started putting this out, which, by the way, the band is called Electron Love Theory, and this record was, um, electronic versions of U2 songs, because you already know I love U2.

Nice.

So I got the, uh, rights back for all this stuff, and then I put it out on the streaming services, which at that time the biggest one was Pandora. And bam, this thing just took off. I've had over a million plays on Pandora and these other streaming services. And, you know, I consider this a success. And now I own the rights and I control, you know, what happens to this thing, et cetera, et cetera. So it was, it was a huge failure. It was a huge learning experience. And, you know, once again, centering your power, centering your control so you can, you know, make, what do you call it, take lemons and make lemonade, right?

Yeah, I love that. We've had Michael Bungay Stanier on the broadcast a couple times, and he's written one of my favorite coaching books called The Coaching Habit. And The Coaching Habit was his follow-up to his first bestseller, which was on an imprint. I think it was called Do More Great Work or Do Great Work, something along those lines. And he was following that up with The Coaching Habit, and they he went through like 7 rewrites of this book and he finally just said, this is BS. I'm taking my toys, I'm leaving, and I'm going to self-publish this book. And it's one of the most referenced coaching books of all time. And he just, you know, he took ownership of his journey and trusted himself and believed in himself and his process enough to say, I'm going to take this and do what I can with it. So I, I love that story of yours. I'm, as we're coming toward the end of our time together, I'd also like to, you know, it sounds to me like you do a lot of your work on your own as kind of a solo actor, as an independent freelancer. And because I do that largely as well, I'm always interested in what are the routines and relationships or even rituals that you have cultivated, and, and continue to revise and update that help keep you on the path and help keep you moving forward in your creative endeavors?

Right. Well, lots of stuff really. Um, one of the things is understanding my why, right? Like really deeply understanding my why slash my mission statement of who I am, how I can contribute to the world, and you know, how I can make the world better at both by serving others and myself, right? If you're aligned with your truth and stepping forward, just like we talked about, it's, it's, it's still work, but it's a joy. It's like, you know, which is it, you know? So really understanding that is another thing. As far as rituals go, I can't exactly show you this here because the camera will get all screwy. But I like to, before I start working every day, sit down at the desk and do a little ritual where I turn on this sort of like a modern lava lamp kind of thing, this sort of psychedelic LED lamp thing, and tap my heart 3 times and remember that the work I am doing is just what we talked about. It is, I'm here to serve, I'm here to use my gifts, you know, I'm here to get paid, I'm here to do the thing and this uplifts everyone, you know, as much as I can, as much as I can give is, you know, what I do. So that's a ritual which, you know, is just a little thing. It really takes, you know, 10 seconds to do it, but it just reminds me both consciously and subconsciously, here's why you're doing the thing. Like this matters more than just a paycheck, right? That kind of thing. Yeah.

Oh, I love that. And it actually, the very first thing I wrote down is you described your work as heart-driven. So I love that you circled us all the way back to that. So, and I just want to put a highlighter underline under that idea of a daily practice, like for anyone that's doing the work You said something that we firmly believe at Creative On Purpose, which is you enhance your life most through work that serves others. And I love that idea that you, you expressed it slightly differently, that you're really here to help make the world a better place, to help serve others. And that's how you're going to bring joy and a sense of flourishing and thriving to your own life, even as you face the fraught nature of being an independent professional. Love that. So I end every broadcast with the same question, and that is, you've already delivered a bunch of nuggets and, and some, some wisdom for, for folks to take away and chew on. If there is just one more piece of advice, one more tip that you'd like to leave listeners with that would help them fly higher in the difference only they can make, what would that be?

Well, lots of little ones, but I will just say, you know, have the courage to step out of your comfort zone. And what this, you know, what this means is not, you know, take a 30-mile trip outside of your comfort zone because that's going to be too uncomfortable and It's not going to serve you or the world. As you step forward in your journey, take a 6-inch step out of your comfort zone and stand there and experience the discomfort. Be willing to— whatever that means for you, right? Whether it's a social situation or a business thing or whatever the deal is, but just stand there and experience it. And eventually this discomfort will subside. And what you will find is that the reason why it subsided is because the comfort zone expanded to meet you. Okay? And when this happens, this means that you just grew as a human, whether it's skills or socially or networking or whatever the deal is. For you. Once you do that, you just keep doing it. You just get a little bit further, a little bit further, a little bit further. When you're more confident, take a, you know, take a 6-foot step out. Right?

Yeah, absolutely love that. So I don't know if Kathy is a friend of yours, but we have Kathy tuning in on LinkedIn and she is loving the stories and the wisdom shared. So thank you, Kathy. Appreciate you, Kathy, tuning in. I just, I love what you just said. Small daily steps to the edges of your understanding and ability every day. That's how you're going to start developing your potential and delivering on your promise. So thank you for that final gem of wisdom, Jeff. And I want to thank you, the viewers, for tuning in today. Jeff and I really appreciate you lending us some of your valuable time and attention. And we hope that today's broadcast motivates you to lean into an endeavor that matters with a little bit more curiosity and courage. You can learn more about Jeff Lisowitz, uh, Lisowitz, sorry, right down there, jefflisowitz.com. And of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com as well. Now take the insight and inspiration from this conversation and start flying higher in the difference only you can make. Jeff Lisowitz, thank you so much for all the time and wisdom that you shared with us today.

Thank you for having me.