Creative on Purpose Live - Zovig Garboushian

Ether at the speed of bytes. And it says that we're live. I feel alive. We must be live. Welcome everyone to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher and the difference only you can make. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward! and a Compass helping difference makers live their legacy at Akimbo Workshops and Creative on Purpose. You can visit creativeonpurpose.com to learn more. This season, we're drawing insight and inspiration from guests successfully embracing uncertainty, navigating adversity, and making things better, doing work that matters. Let's meet today's guest, Zove Garbushian. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can we go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Absolutely. It's good to be here, Scott. I'm Zove Garbushian. I'm the founder and head coach at Boldness Ablaze Coaching. I coach high-achieving women and I help women go after what they want boldly and unapologetically. You can find me at boldnessablazecoaching.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn under my name, Zove Garbushian, or boldnessablaze.com. And what I'm up to is helping women stop the inner dialogue that gets in between them and the dreams that they want to go after. That's really what my mission is. It's what I'm all about. It looks different for every woman, but ultimately that's what I'm here to do.

I really— so Zovig and I met in a Rich Lipman intensive. We were in the same cohort, which was called— well, it had a variety of names. I prefer— I like going with the one that I coined, the Effing Effers. And an extraordinary group of people. We have several other folks from that cohort coming on the broadcast, but I'm really— what interested me most about bringing you on the broadcast, Zovek, is the way that you talk about inner dialogue, inner narrative, because it's a big theme at Creative on Purpose as well. We also do a lot of broadcasts with professional storytellers and people that are bringing storytelling ideas into business practices, coaching in particular. What do you think? I mean, what's the deal with this inner narrative thing? How come it's a problem and how come it's so pervasive?

Yeah, I love that question. What's the deal with this inner narrative thing? I mean, if I knew, then I'd be a gajillionaire, but I'm cracking the code little by little. I think man or woman, however you identify, you have inner dialogue and the inner dialogue is usually working against you. More than it is working for you. We have to train ourselves to get it to work for us much. And it's a much, it's a lofty challenge sometimes, depending on where we've come from, how we grew up, who we've engaged with, the stories that we were told, and then the stories that we chose to take on. And, you know, a lot of times that inner dialogue keeps us safe. It keeps us, and that's why we do it, right? Like we don't do anything in our lives that we think is going to hurt us. There's a payoff to everything we do, even behaviors that maybe don't serve us so wonderfully. And that inner dialogue is one of those things that can serve us to a certain degree by keeping us safe and keeping us small. But where it starts to tip over into the area where it's not serving is when we're being held back. You know, we're sitting there and I like to call it, I had a moment of, I was vibrating in my own skin because I knew that I needed to be unleashed and I didn't know what it was, but there was this voice going, are you sure it's you? Are you sure you're the one? You're just a girl. And you know, a lot of that comes from culture. And I'm first-generation Armenian in the States. So I have a lot of beautiful, amazing culture that comes with some very traditional beliefs. And so I, you know, that's part of my inner dialogue. And so it comes from different places. But oh my gosh, you know, anytime we, we decide we're going to step out, try something new, break the box down a little bit, that voice just comes in and goes, are you sure you're the one? Do you think you have what it takes? I don't know. It didn't work the last time, maybe. And so it's a choice and it's a daily practice to quiet that voice. And my dog clearly is excited about this as well. So sorry about that.

Your dog is telling a story as well.

He gets really riled up about this.

He's letting his inner narrative speak out into the world. So One of the things that we talk about at Creative on Purpose is, um, that we are inherently storytelling creatures. It's how we've always made sense of ourselves, of our situation, of each other. I'm telling myself a story about myself and about what's going on. I'm telling myself a story about you, and I'm telling myself a story about the story that I think you're telling about me, and on and on and on. You said something really profound that I would love for you to unpack a little bit more because I think I'm guessing that you and I would agree that we can't deny or push down our inner narrative. It's to your point, it serves an evolutionary imperative. It's part of it. Part, part of that settling for the status quo narrative that we tell ourselves is to keep us safe by keeping us humble and, and kind of head down. Um, at the same time, you mentioned, but we can change, we can change that narrative. And I totally agree with that. I think that, um, it's actually really— the solution is really simple. It's just unfortunate that simple is never easy. Um, because it literally is just as simple as changing your mind. So what are some, some of the techniques or what's the approach that you use to help women identify the inner narrative that's not serving them and then to start to craft a better story that's going to serve their aspirations and their health and happiness?

Yeah, that's a great question. It's like, how do you get rid of it? Right? How do you— so what I do is I try to break it down. I see it as this thing that you kind of turn around and you're looking at from all these different angles. First of all, you're admitting the story out loud. Like, I have a trying to think of what my inner narrative would be. Mine was, you know, you're— but you're just a— you're just a girl, and you can go kind of— you can go pretty far and get educated and go do the— go do things, but don't do too much, and don't be too loud, and don't be too fill in the blank. So that was— that's my inner narrative, is am I being too much? And so, um, the thing that I had to do was I had to look at, well, what am— what is the narrative I'm saying to myself? Okay, I'm too— I'm afraid I'm going to be too much.

Why?

And then we start to question it. Why are you afraid of this thing? When did you— when did I first learn this thing? What was the context in which it came from? Who was the person that taught it to me? Or what was the experience that I had that taught me this narrative? And looking at— and then we get down to, is that experience still existing today? Are you still in that experience with that same person? How true is it? Big T, right? Not little t, our interpretations of things, but the big T truth. Is that narrative. And being able to face it and look at it head-on and say, hmm, maybe this isn't actually true anymore. And if I were to let go of this narrative, what would be available to me? And how would I feel about what's available to me, right? Because you want to— changing our behaviors means we have to look at our feelings and how we feel about stuff. Like, feelings are everything. How do you want to feel? You can remember, you don't remember necessarily remember what people say. And I know, you know, this cause of storytelling, you don't necessarily remember the details, but you remember how something made you feel. And so if you can look at how you felt and how you want to feel instead, then you have that much more of a chance of breaking down that inner narrative. So really it's getting real with it and coexisting with it. Sometimes I wonder if we're actually able to like eradicate that stuff from our bodies and our bones and our energy. Or if we just coexist with it and I just kind of look at it and go, okay, I see you, narrative. I hear that. And I'm not listening. I'm choosing not to listen today because it's not serving me. It's a choice, Scott Perry, and it's a hard choice and it is a repeated choice. It's not just like you wake up one day and you're, I'm confident nothing's going to stop me. No, I'm choosing to show up and not decide that this is my truth today and that I am no longer in a place where I need to be safe. You know, I don't need to be safe anymore. Nothing's— nothing's— no, I'm not in danger, so I don't need to be kept safe by this.

Yeah, well, that safety is a story that, um, we've been telling ourselves for a long time that got kind of exploded, uh, when the pandemic hit. We realized that actually the status quo is never fixed, and, and, um, we can't count that every day is going to look just like the day before. Um, Yeah, I like that, that what you're also saying about the daily practice, like you can't just change. It's not just flipping a switch and then you're done. It's a sweeping the floor exercise, not a one and done exercise. You have to return to this daily. Um, and the other thing is, you know, there's, I love the way that you speak about like engaging with that inner narrative to so that you can hold it at arm's length and look at it a little bit more objectively. One of the other things that I find really useful sometimes is to try to reframe what the inner critic, what the imposter, whatever, you know, whatever you want to name it, the resistance, reframe its purpose. And so one of the things that I have found is my inner critic or imposter or resistance or lizard brain doesn't show up when my wife and I are trying to decide what to watch on Netflix. It doesn't seem like it has any stake in that decision. But if I'm thinking about, to some of your examples, doing something that's going to promote my, um, sense of flourishing, or if it's going to enhance my, uh, position or prosperity, my sense of purpose and passion, The critic definitely shows up then. And I like to call it my friend and my compass. It's like, oh, hello, you just showed up. That must mean I'm pointing in a direction worth exploring. Maybe there's something there. Because you only show up if I'm exploring the edges of my understanding and ability. I don't know if any of that resonates.

It does. It does. I love that you identify when it shows up. And that's another way of— it's really all about awareness, right? It's like the why, the when. And I love that, you know, it only shows up when I am feeling a little uncomfortable about something because there might be some really big opportunity here for me. There might be a chance for me to grow, meet someone new, experience myself in a different way, make more money, whatever it is. That's when that inner voice shows up. OK, what are you saying? Why are you here? How true is this thing? For me, this is not for everyone, but for me, my technique is to write it down. What am I scared of? What am I really scared of? What else? What else? What else? When I get the list and until down, down to like the tiniest little minutia of things, and then I can look at on paper and go, how much do I want to let this get in my way right now? And that's the practice of it, is being willing to take some time and examine it. And you know, you get faster at it. You get like, you know, you're not spending hours upon hours doing this. You get better at quieting the voice the more the more you do it. But also not being judgmental about it. Like, okay, I'm feeling a little scared about this.

I think that's— yeah, that's extraordinarily important. I just want to highlight that this idea of writing it down or speaking it out into the world. So because if it remains in here and you're just cycling on it, it's never— you're never going to get off that hamster wheel. But when you speak it out into the world or write it down, now suddenly it's a little bit more objectified and you can work the problem instead of letting the problem work you. And I also love what you were saying about, um, looking at it a little more objectively, like, yes, we do have, we are emotional creatures. Emotions are healthy and natural, and they're not always the best, um, the best guide in terms of making the next, the decision for what we do next. You know, when, when you're feeling a lot of anxiety, fear, self-loathing, whatever. It's probably not the emotion that you want to attach yourself to while you're making an important decision. But if you can clearly articulate what it is through, through your process of listing, now it's just, these are just things that have to be taken care of and I can take care of them because they're just things. They're, they're not tied to my identity or to my, my well-being. I wanted to just quickly give a shout out to my friend Tina. Sounds like she is a fellow Armenian woman.

Yeah.

She's doing fantastic work in the poetry writing storytelling space. And so she's enjoying the broadcast.

Tina Demirjian. Love it. Love it.

So I'm also really curious. I'm always curious about my guests' origin stories. Like, you know, how did— I know it only makes sense for most of us in retrospect, but I'm guessing you, you didn't exit the womb deciding this was the work that you were meant to do. So I'm just curious about what brought you to where you're, you know, what you're doing now with Bold As a Blaze Coaching.

Yeah, I think I did exit the womb a fighter, though. I have to say, I think I did. You know, first generation, oldest of 4 girls. I had a lot of trails to blaze, and I took that responsibility very seriously. You know, Bless my dad. I think I single-handedly turned his hair gray. But I've always been raising my fist in declaration of women's empowerment. Like, no, you have to listen to me. I have something to say. You know, and there was a lot of need to not only let hear my voice, but also allow other people to speak. And there's something about, you know, when I decided to become a coach, it took me about a year longer than it should have because of the inner dialogue. Oh, you're just going to be another coach and there's a zillion out there and da da da. And then at some point I realized, no, if you talk to me for 5 minutes, you know, you're going to get something different here. But leading up to that, I became a yoga teacher because I wanted to empower people through feeling, through healthy and strong bodies. And for 7 years, I was a shopper and stylist for women who had gone through dramatic weight loss because that's something I experienced. You fall out of touch with your body. You don't really know what your physical being is like, how to dress it, what to wear. And I, I wanted to make that a point of enjoyment for women. And so I've always in some way been, um, in support of and advocating for, for women to feel at home in themselves, in themselves, their bodies, their minds, have peace of mind, and then feel empowered and valued when they show up to the party without having to prove anything.. And I think that, that having to prove thing became clear to me when I was in a yoga teacher training and we were having a partner share. And my partner looked at me and said, I feel like you think you have to hustle for respect, but you don't. And I was like, oh God, cover me up. I'm so— she saw me, you know. And, but that moment for me was, why do I think I have to hustle for respect? Why can't I just show up and know that what I have to offer is like worth its weight in gold. And therefore every woman does. Like smarts, humor, beauty, kindness, that divine feminine creativity. Like, it's just so badass. And I just want that to shine as readily as possible. And so, you know, leading up to being a coach, it, you know, it was right after my father passed away, and I was having a conversation with him in my car. And my dad lived his life doing what he wanted. He did not put— like, he did him, you know, and pissed a lot of people off sometimes, but he was successful and amazing at it. And, and it hit me, no, I need to be a coach. It's time. Stop worrying about what other people think. This is what you're supposed to do. And it literally was overnight, but it had been working. It had been working in the background for years.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. What you were speaking to, something that just brought to mind this idea that we've been playing with in the Creative on Purpose community about sufficiency and striving are not mutually exclusive propositions. You know, human beings can't hold opposing ideas in our head without having it explode. And this idea that we can be just fine just the way we are. And every, you know, ourselves and everything around us can be sufficient, and we can still strive and aspire to be and do more. And our pursuit of that doesn't make us less sufficient, it just— it will actually raise our sufficiency. Because as you get closer to what you're striving for, you're dragging up your sense of sufficiency behind it. So it becomes this process of kind of climbing up the ladder. So everything is always okay, and everything can always be better. And why not strive for better? I really appreciate that. And I love your, your origin story because like so many, you point to this, you, you found the theme, you found the through line. You know, even going all the way back to exiting the womb, this fierce, you know, kind of boldness. I love that. I do. I feel like there's, there is a lot of our tolerances and temperament. A lot of it just is innate. It's what we're born with. And at the same time, we have this ability through nurture and through this— well, you pointed to this earlier— we get, we earn confidence by developing the skill in whatever it is that we're, we're working on. So you can become a, a person that tells themselves healthier and happier stories, or stories that promote your health and happiness by practicing that every day. And you get better at it and faster at it, more efficient at it, just by putting it— just by doing it every day. The thing that's, I think, hard to remember sometimes is that everything we ever learned that's of value, we learn this way. Uh, talking, walking, riding a bike, learning to read, learning to write— we did it really, really badly until we started to do it.

Well.

And now we do these things almost unconsciously. Um, but there's something that happens between, you know, our— that courageous, fearless child learning these things and the adult that is trying to employ those lessons, uh, and, and become— and that's what I also heard in your story. It's, it's not a series of pivots and transitions. Uh, you weren't you were in this arc of becoming all along. So just super powerful. And I just think a great reminder to those tuning in that, you know, don't sit too long in the identity of your nouns, find the verbs and live into the person that you're choosing to become. The other thing that I'm interested in always with my guests is, You know, this work that you do is making a difference, and work that matters is very fulfilling. Of course, it's also fairly fraught. There are challenges, there are uncertainties, there are adversities, there's overwhelm and burnout and all these things. And I'm just wondering if you'd be willing to share is a moment where your, you know, your resolve was tested or you made a mistake or you experienced something that felt like a, a huge failure in the moment, but it became a lesson, or maybe it even flipped into an opportunity at some point. Um, you know, how— is there, is there a moment that you'd be willing to share where you kind of made a mistake into something much more powerful?

Yeah, specifically with my coaching business. When I first started it, I had a name, a different name. It wasn't always Boldness Ablaze Coaching, it was actually Life of Fire Coaching. And, um, So same, you know, same family of this Element of Fire. But about 10 months into it, I got a cease and desist letter from another coaching company with a very similar name that said, you need to stop this. And I got very— I mean, my— it was like this quick up, you know, up and down. In about 3 hours, I was like, he can't do this to me. Who does he think, you know? And then I contacted my lawyer and he said, actually, yeah, he can. And he goes, I really wouldn't recommend you try to fight this. And so I went from that to— I just, I went through the whole range of emotions, right? I was like, I don't know what the order of the grieving process is, but I felt the grief, I felt the sadness, I felt the anger, I felt, you know, and then you get to the point where you're starting to resolve it. And it happened within a few hours. But what it did for me was it, it told me, because I wasn't, um, putting 100% into the business because the inner dialogue was still happening very loudly. And it was easy to allow it to happen because it was during the pandemic year, it was 2020, you know, it was early in 2020. And so it was really, I had kind of an excuse to not go full, full out after creating what my coaching business and mission are. And when I got hit with that letter, I thought, I have to change the name. And if I'm going to change the name, I need to be in this or I'm not in this at all. It's either— my mom used to say a not so elegant way of doing it or getting off the pot. So it's like I'm either in this or I'm not. And I do talk to myself, Zulfi, you're either in this or not. And I was in it. And so for me, that was a moment of, okay, fine, you have my name, take it. I am not the name, right? It is what I do and what I offer and what we offer as coaches or in whatever business, we are, whatever service we provide, we are not the name. We hear all the stuff about brand and da da da. And yeah, that's sure, you need that. You got to have something to identify yourself with. But I am the, I am the coach and I am the thing, the thing that creates the transformation alongside my clients and helps them find what they need. And that could be called pretty much anything. And so within a few hours, brainstorm some names, talked them out loud. My fiancé said, that— what was that one? Boldness what? And I said, boldness place. He goes, that's the one. I was like, great, done. And that was that. And so I felt like an idiot, Scott, because I didn't do my homework and I didn't really own it, you know. I felt really dumb. That's— that was a mistake for me, um, but I learned. And it actually opened up an opportunity to get right with what I was doing and, and put both feet in. As opposed to just dancing around it. So, um, you know, that— I think that's probably something that really sticks out to me that's recent.

Well, what I love about that story is how everyone, when they're starting their business, gets like, oh, I gotta, I gotta come up with my name and my logo, as if that is— all of that is the most important thing. And it's like, actually, what you need to do is get really good at whatever it is that you do And make sure that you identify who it's for and, you know, what the promise on offer is. So I love that story. And I think every— everybody has been there at one point or another with, you know, getting, you know, finding out that their brilliant idea has been trademarked or thought of by someone else in the past. So I think that's just a terrific story and really appreciate you sharing that with us. Well, we're nearing the end of our time together. And I always end with the same question now. Zovek, you've already delivered a ton of insight and inspiration for people that are aspiring to or advancing in the difference that they make. But I'm wondering if there's just one last— if you have one primary or just a last word on a piece of advice or an insight or a bit of inspiration that would help those tuning in to lean into the difference only they can make and start to level up and make change happen?

Yeah, I would say curiosity is your biggest tool. It's my biggest tool. Why am I doing this? Why is this important? Why is this important to me? And by this, I mean anything— my core values, a choice I make, a person I talk to— asking myself why I'm doing it and why it's important to me. That's like my discernment toolkit. And it puts me in continuous self-inquiry so that I'm always staying on the right path for myself. Because we— I don't want to speak for everybody. I know I can get caught by bright, shiny objects. Like, I should be doing this and I should be doing— maybe I want to do a podcast and, you know, all these different things. Why? That question of why, it's just like, it just cuts right through things. And if I have the ability to ask myself, why on a daily basis before I make choices, I'm going to make better choices. Because you can't hide from why. You just can't. You can't hide.

There's, there's a line from E.E. Cummings in the intro to one of his books of poetry, "Always a more beautiful question." That, that's the way that we, we get insight. I love, I love that response. Well, thank you so much. And thank you folks for tuning in today. Zovig and I really appreciate you letting us some of your for your valuable time and attention. We hope that today's broadcast motivates you to lean into an endeavor that matters with greater curiosity and courage. You can learn more about Zovig, and there it is, just down there at boldnessablazecoaching.com. And of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com as well. Now take the insight and inspiration from this conversation and fly higher in the difference only you can make. Zovig Garbushyan, thank you so much for sharing your time and wisdom with us today. Absolutely.

Thank you for having me, Scott. Thanks everybody for watching.