Dwayne Moffatt on Creative on Purpose Live

upright position. Fasten your seatbelt. We're live. Welcome to Creative on Purpose, a show about defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make in the second half of life. You can, you can learn more at creativeonpurpose.com. For those of you that don't know me, I'm Scott Perry, Chief Difference Maker at creativeonpurpose.com, and also the author of The Art of Encore Living. It's time to play your game. Visit Creative On Purpose to learn how you can get started now. Let's meet today's guest, Duane Moffatt. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Hey Scott, how's it going? So glad to be on Creative On Purpose today. Yeah, I'm Duane Moffatt. I am currently— well, my trade is an electrician. I'm an electrical contractor, but The thing I'm passionate about in my second half of life, I guess you could say, is me and a good friend of mine, Jake Anderson, who has also been on your show, we're building Inside the Den podcast. And, you know, we're also doing some other things with content and, you know, working towards this playing your game and, you know, really getting into the content creation part of it. So that's where we are, and you can follow us at staywolfish.com, or if you're on Twitter, we have, uh, Inside the Den pod, or we both have our personal accounts which you can also follow along and find out what we're doing. So yeah, it's, it's been a fun journey, Scott.

Yeah, fantastic. Well, I'm really excited to have you on because of course you're on the younger side of, uh, you know, maybe just thinking about what you're going to be do when, uh, you finally grow up in the second half of life, or hopefully don't grow up. But, you know, what we love to say that growing older is required, growing up is optional.

I've used that quote so many times. And I used to have this good little GIF that went along with it. It was like two, two older gentlemen, long beards, and they were like riding a motorcycle and like doing tricks. And then, and then it said growing up is mandatory growing, or growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. So I've lived that actually. I've, that's kind of one of my mottos.

Well, I'd love to, you know, one of the things that's interesting to me about your story, and I want to hear your story from you, but just, I'm curious about how you came to be building this kind of Encore Life project on the side alongside taking care of your responsibilities and your family by, you know, working, you know, maintaining your trade. What was the, what was the catalyst? What was, how did that, how did that transition begin to happen for you?

Well, yeah, it's, it's a fun little story, actually. And it started maybe, well, it's, I go by before COVID and after COVID now. So, so it started like kind of right before COVID And I was electrical contractor for 20+ years, which, you know, A lot of my work was on the road, took me away from my young family. And all of a sudden I was like, I am away from my wife and kids like way too much. Like, what can I do? And so, and I don't know whether it was because I had just turned 40. So I'm 45. So, you know, nearing that second half, and really had a moment of, okay, like, my kids are growing up and I want to be there for them. What can I do? So I dove into the internet marketing world and kind of tried a few things, affiliate marketing, and just where, where that would fit into life. And then COVID hit, and I was like, you know what, I'm going to start a podcast. I, that's— I love talking with people. I'm just going to start a podcast. I kind of need help in this parenting thing, so I'm going to start a podcast called The Imperfect Parent. And that was right at the start of the pandemic. So all through the pandemic, I think I kept that running for about 50 episodes, almost a year. Um, and through the 50 guests, it was a lot of like parenting advice, mental health stuff, communication, like all these tools that I needed because all of a sudden I was like with my family, my wife and my kids, 24 hours a day with no breaks. And it was just like a little overwhelming. So it was kind of my outlet I guess. And that, that led into just kind of a whirlwind of education and personal growth and just, just me being curious and learning and learning and trying to implement as I went. I can say at the end of the year of the podcast, what would really flip the switch this last year and a half was Nick Smith. And I don't know if your guests know about Nick Smith yet or have heard about Nick Peterson, but I watched this, uh, 14 or 12— 12 Days of Nick Smith, and it really flipped my perspective on its head. Um, so I put almost everything I had done for the previous year and a half, I put it all on hold and just sat with this uncomfortable kind of re— assessment of life and was like, okay, was that direction getting me to where I wanted to be, or was I just going down this path of just trying to figure it out? And so that was an interesting realization, Scott. Like, it put me through like a lot of stuff. So I can tell you, the, the last 3 or 4 years of my life has been the most, um, growth and re- assessment of what I want in life. And it's been, it's been crazy. Like, it's been, it's been fun.

That's— I, I love— there's a lot of threads that I want to pull on.

I dumped a lot on you there.

Oh no, that's, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. And just, you know, my audience has been coming, uh, hearing me talk more and more about, um, Nick Peterson's work and the Guardian Academy and the Wolf Den and all these things that, um, where you and I have had been colliding. Um, and for anyone that's— that wants to learn more about Nick Peterson and what he's up to, I would, I would encourage you to start with his book. Uh, it's available on Amazon. It's called Bumpers. Um, and it will give you a very, uh, it's a very short read, will give you a great overview of just the way he thinks and the way he's approaching things. And where your story and his kind of intersect a little bit, um, Duane, and is that You know, one of Nick's kind of missions is to help bridge the gap between, you know, human, bridging the gap between humanity and Web3, and how can we leverage Web3 as a force for good. Right now, a lot of Web3 activities, cryptocurrencies and exchanges and all these things are getting a little bit of, you know, some bad reputation based on some people that are using them for nefarious purposes. But Web3 is a tool, and tools can be used for good or for ill. That's really up to the user. And one of the things that's interesting to me about what you just shared is, you know, there's a case to be made for learning to do things by, learning things by doing things, right? So you jumped into the digital marketing world, and you jumped into cryptocurrency, and you just kind of started doing things, jumped into podcasting. And then there's also virtue sometimes in, hitting the pause button, zooming out, getting a little bit more clarity about like, where do I, you know, what do I really want from life? What do I really, what is this thing I'm doing really for? And so your story shares a little bit of both of that. Like you jumped in, you did some stuff, you learned some lessons, probably some of them hard lessons. Then you kind of hit the, hit the pause button and said, I'm gonna, you know, put, put a pause on all these things and, um, think about like, what, what is it that I really want? Which sounds like it's speaking to this idea, um, that you and I know from Dan, uh, Dan Nicholson's work, um, and his book Rigging the Game, which I also talk about all the time on the podcast and with my community. Um, sounds like you're, you, you're, you were framing your solvable problem. And so what was the, what was the process there? Like, how, what did you decide during that pause that you wanted to do? And then how did you start to strategically work your way towards, um, getting what you wanted?

Well, it goes back to right when I, like, right when I first started exploring stuff, you know, my solvable problem was to come home, be more present with the kids and the family, and find a way to move away from electrical yet still, you know, provide and, and have purpose and all that and all those things, right? So in, in my reflection, I was like, okay, so what I was doing— it did— what I was doing was just following the latest guru or the latest, you know, this works, or this, you know, this tactic will get you your, you know, your new side hustle. And so, um, reevaluating that and how it didn't quite feel right to me, like I knew it could work for certain people, and I'd seen proof. I had seen like numerous people become successful, um, even from like a starting position. Like when you first get into something, there's always those people that kind of join at the same time, and so you can kind of follow the community and see who excels at what, and you're like, oh, okay, that seems to be working for them, or whatever. But, you know, after, after I paused, I really reflected on Okay, what were the things that felt good to me that I could use to accelerate or move closer to what I wanted? It was a, it was a pretty hard mirror to look in, actually, because I had been just chasing and chasing and doing things that I, you know, seen other people do success in. So, but none of it was clicking. And, and reflecting back now, in hindsight, it was because it wasn't clicking with me. It was clicking with them, but it was nothing to do with me. So, um, that was a really, a really tough one to look at. And, you know, after I paused things, it was 6 or 7 months before I really kind of gained clarity and direction on, okay, what feels good to me? Where, where am I going? And where do I want to contribute? And how much value do I want to put out into the world? And, um, that was a fun realization. And luckily enough, on that that 6-month pause, I had somebody to bounce answers off of, and that was Jake Anderson, right? So, you know, having that person that kind of understands what you're going through and can— you can throw ideas at with no judgment and have like some good feedback conversations, that was instrumental in moving me forward, basically.

Yeah, well, there's a couple of things I just want to highlight. One is you and I both also are connected to Dr. Jeff Spencer through Nick, and He has this thing that he says, nobody wins alone. And it's so important to understand that, you know, you need to take care of yourself first so you can be of better service to the people you care about. But you have to, you know, you have to surround yourself with people that are, you know, going to enhance your experience while you're also trying to enhance theirs. And you and Jake are such a fantastic team and are doing such great work with Inside the Den and all the resources that you provide. You know, the community that you and I are part of. Um, you also talked a little bit about like initially it was just about chasing more, like I want to get, I want to do more marketing, online marketing so I can make more money, more, more, more, more, more. Yeah. But if you don't have an idea of what, what you're getting, wanting to get closer to, more actually probably gets you farther away.

Um, and then the other thing that you can confuse the situation because I didn't know what decisions I was making to get more. So I was— it just made me confused. And really, I stalled out on a lot of things because I just didn't have a way to answer my questions.

Yeah, well, you paid the complexity tax, and we all do, right? Because when you are adding anything, you know, when you're adding things to your system, whether it's your strategy for getting what you want or your system for acquiring, you know, whatever you're trying to acquire, whether it's clients or business or what have you. The more things you add, you actually decrease the efficiency of the system. So you actually are getting less of what you want the more that you try to chase. You had this thing that you shared too around, you know, pausing so that you could pay attention to like, what are the things that are lighting me up? What are the things that are kind of exciting me and energizing me? What are the things that are exhausting and depleting you? And in our community at Creative on Purpose, we call that our zespirometer. Like, you need to be paying attention to how is this actually making me feel? And sometimes it's a function of doing the wrong thing, in which case you should stop doing that or do less of that. But sometimes it's also a matter of doing the thing wrong. And so it's a matter of iterating, revising, and improving your amount of clarity about what you're really doing and how you're really trying to get there. So I'm just wondering, in that moment of pause, and as you were, as you were assessing, what did you find? What did you find were the things that you were doing wrong that you had to stop doing or do less of? What were the things that you were doing that you needed to, that were the right things, you just were doing them in the wrong way? And what adjustments did you make?

Well, this is, this is a great question. Because, um, and I'll, and I'll talk about crypto here for a bit because, um, that was one thing when I was doing my Imperfect Parent podcast, um, I had all this time to do research online and everything. And then of course it was during the crypto bull run, so, you know, I was seeing all this stuff come up about crypto. So that's how I dove into crypto, right? But I had came in kind of through the degen um, seeing coins go 100x and going, oh, there's my more, there's a thing that could make me more money. And so when I got into that, that's what I was doing, is was trying to make more money with crypto. Now, or through that whole process of that learning the crypto world, that's how it kind of came into Nick's world, was through that. But then I, then I started learning, holy, there's this whole world of blockchain, Web3 tools, like projects that are making a difference. It's not just about buying and selling and trading coins, it's actually like there's things behind this, like in real life. And so that's, that's where my interest was. It was the curiosity of this new tech and how it can work and what can it do for me. And, and you know what, because I had went down watching the charts and trying to buy and trying to sell and trade, and, and that didn't feel good, I'll tell you. Like, you know, being just consumed of, of worrying about when to buy and when to sell, that just didn't feel right after a while. So it was a lot of, um, it was a lot of feelings that I had to recognize in that because it was interesting to me, but it just— that avenue of it just wasn't quite right. But then all of a sudden when, um, we had readjusted, and me and Jake had first talked about launching a podcast called Wolfish on Web3, and it was to talk about like more of the crypto side and what was happening with all these tools and stuff. And then even we adjusted after that because it was like, no, we want to talk about the community and the people because that's where we lined up and aligned the most. Um, even though the tech and everything was all sexy and shiny and bright and it was fun to talk about, It was still just, you know, iterating again of like, oh no, this is where we feel best talking. So, um, there was a whole bunch of, whole bunch of that. And it was really just like you said, you finding the zest, you know, like, um, you know, finding what lights you up and, and being aware of that, reflecting on that, and then just adjusting course slightly and, and continuing down that.

Yeah, yeah. It's— well, I, I came in to, uh, the community just as you and Jake were making that transition from Wolfish on Web3 into, um, Inside the Den. And it was really inspiring to see, like, you can, you can actually do both, right? You can, you can— we talked about, like, doing, like, learning by doing, but also being able to pause long enough to refine, like, your destination and your strategy for getting there, what you really want. And so you guys were kind of iterating that in real time as I was coming in and watching that unfold. The other thing that came up for me as you were talking is, you know, as you're doing all this work, you know, you and Jake are building your project together. You're, you know, figuring out what kind of podcasts you really want to be doing and, you know, what kind of Web3 blockchain activity you want to be engaged in. You're also doing your electrical contract work. And it speaks to this idea that we talk about frequently at Creative Our Purpose, which is, you know, there's virtue in doing the work that you have to do to take care of your responsibilities. I mean, please don't do something that sucks the soul out of your body or, you know, makes you, drives you to drink. But at the same time, you know, while you're taking care of business and doing that work you have to do, you still have plenty of time to do the work that you get to do, the work that lights you up that. So what, how have you navigated that piece? Because I know you own your own business, which is someone that's been self-employed for a long time. I know how consuming that would be. So how do you, how do you strike that balance? Or how do you integrate those two ways of being together so that you, you take care of what you'd have to take care of, but then have the time to do the things that you get to do and want to do?

You're really digging out the deep questions here, Scott, because I'll tell you, it's been a constant battle. I really have had to— so I, when I first started moving away from electrical, I, you know, it— after a few months, I really started getting this bad feeling about it. Like, I really didn't like going to work. I really, you know, I wanted just to move on. I wanted to leave that behind.. And for a year it caused some pretty big conflict because I was really trying to push it away. And then in that moment of stopping and reflecting, I was like, okay. And I think it was— there was one video, and I forget which one it was. It was some of the content that came out of the Guardian Academy. I think it was a Dr. Jeff call, actually. And, and it hit me where, no, I actually like this is solving my reliable part of life, and I shouldn't be trying to push it away because the other part of my life isn't taking care of my needs and necessities yet, even though it's lighting me up and it's what I want to do. And I, I really want to do just do that full-time, but I still needed to pay close attention and have the right kind of mindset or thoughts about my stable income and my job that I still needed, right? So that's been a constant conflict and battle back and forth and back and forth. And I, and I still catch myself sometimes going, okay, the electrical business needs my attention, and I really need to focus over here and, and bring that back up to a minimum, uh, MRD— or what is it, MRV and MED? Maximum Recoverable Volume and Minimum Effective Dose. That was a big one that I really applied to all areas of my life and just moved things to like Okay, minimum maintain, like this needs to be here to function and be positive, and then move things over and try and push them to the next level. And so that's kind of been my base of making decisions. But all of a sudden, I'll, I'll move electrical to the minimum and just focus on, on inside the den and all the stuff that's really lighting me up. And then I'll look back and I'll be like, okay, the electrical needs some attention over here. Especially like during tax time, that was a big one. I was like, oh, I, I've been, uh, really slacking over here. I need to bring that up. So, oh, it's, it's a constant battle though, Scott. It really is. But, um, you know, through that whole process, it's been like one of the key things has been communication with Erin, my wife, on just like— she's kind of been my barometer of things where if it falls too off, if things fall too low, like even my attention to her or the kids, because I'm, you know, I'm pretty busy with the electrical and this stuff and And, and my main thing is the family and kids. So, you know, if that's falling down, she like brings me back in. And so, yeah, life, life is fun. But, you know, over this last year, I've gained some tools and frameworks to use to make those decisions, which has made it a lot easier than it was 2 years ago. 2 years ago, I was just in confusion and didn't know what to grab to make the decision. But in this last year, I really feel more comfortable and more self-aware, I guess, in making what tool and framework I need to solve that question or that issue.

Yeah, I love all that rambling.

I'm sorry about that.

No, no, no, no, it's really good. So just to highlight a couple of really important lessons there. One, One is, I think we all go through this, you know, when we find something that really excites us and lights us up, we want to like, oh, I want to turn that into my thing. And I actually, you know, my background is as a musician. I was a performing professional musician for 25 years. And I still, even though I'm retired from that now, I still have people contacting me every week. Hey, I want to do what you did. How do I do that? And I tell them, don't. Like, turning your hobby into your business is— can be a real recipe for disaster, because you spend a lot less time doing the thing that you love than you think you do. Because most of being a musician is like that 2 hours on stage comes with 10 hours of booking the gig, marketing the gig, training, you know, practicing with the band, getting the band to the gig, keeping the band in line to do the gig, and getting paid at the end. I mean, it's, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's not as fun. But the other thing is, um, that I'm hearing in what you're saying is like you had this moment where it's like, you know what, my life is not that bad. Like I get to be an electrician too, and I get to make a living doing some, like being my own boss. You know, my, I often say if you're going to work for a jerk, you might as well work for yourself. Um, and so, you know, there's that gratitude piece. And then like, but I'm also hearing. About like this integrated approach to your life. Like, I, I'm totally on board with, you know, I, I check in with my wife to make sure that— because she sees things that I don't see, and she helps me get back into balance or get back on track, um, make sure that I'm paying attention to everybody that needs my attention and not just, um, the community where I love hanging out or the work that I love to, to get to do. So I think that's, you know, your story is really Fantastic. We're coming up to the end of our half hour together. I have one last question and then one final question. The last question is, you spoke to this earlier and I just wanna circle back to it 'cause I think it's really important for anybody that is looking to build, whether it's Web2, Web3, there, we spend a lot of time looking at the gurus, looking at the influencers, and chasing, you know, and buying into their blueprint, their system, whatever. And it sounds like your experience was, you know, what worked for someone else didn't necessarily work for you. That's certainly been my experience as well. Um, just wondering about the hard lessons that you learned there, and, and what did you decide to do so that you could kind of play your game and, and win more often on your own terms?

Well, there was a lot of hard lessons. Um, I think, I think, and I'll use this because it's fresh on my mind, um, unexploitable and exploitable. At that time, I was very exploitable because I was searching and I didn't know which belief or which— where I wanted to go. So it was pretty easy for the gurus and the good marketers to insert a belief or a strategy in, in me And then, and then a switch flipped where I could see it. And I was like, oh, okay. So, you know, during my pause, I really got clear with myself. And so now I can see that coming, or I feel like I can see it coming a heck of a lot more than I could before. And really put it against the, is this for me? Is this getting me closer? Will this solve my problem? That, that was a huge, huge step. And still working through it, but I'm not chasing as many shiny objects and just to fill that gap. So that's been a savior both on the bank account and my mind and my mental health. So yeah, it's been good.

Yeah, no, I definitely feel you there. As someone that, you know, come tax time, I realize how much I've quote unquote invested in myself. That's money I wish I could recapture and reallocate.

We could probably do a whole episode on the guru courses that are still in the Dropbox.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, but, you know, probably sometimes we have to learn those lessons kind of the hard way. But, you know, the point is that you learn them and then it's a sunk cost you can ignore as you, you know, refine the way that you're approaching things. The last—

oh, sorry, I'll just say one last thing. Like, there is— I did find some really good people though. Like, in amongst all the chaos and the noise and the mess, there is some really good people that— well, you, for instance, you see, you know, like, really good people that really are making a difference and getting results. So, like, don't, don't just discount all, all people doing that as gurus and that they're bad. Because, you know, a lot of the people— I had some really good mentors and coaches that got me through some tough spots. So not all of it was bad. So I just want to say that, like, no, I'm totally on board.

I mean, one of the things I think that happens when you— and yes, there are some, some people out there that are really excellent teachers. Oftentimes, you know, they are also still students themselves. So they're, they're, they're sharing what they have learned. And this is the way I try to approach my businesses. I have, you know, you said it took you 6 or 7 months to figure out what you were going to do. It took me 6 or 7 years. And I don't want anybody to have to wait that long. So what I'm trying to do is help people close the gap in terms of playing their own game and defining what they want and how they're going to get there. More expeditiously than I did. And there are great people out there. But the thing about being involved in these programs, whether it's a great program or, you know, great for you program or not great for you program, is they, they do attract people that are interested in leveling up, becoming their better selves. And, and so you do end up meeting a lot of great people. And I concur, I've met some fantastic people in some of the very worst programs I've signed up for. I've met some of the greatest people, and those Connections really matter. Just in closing, I would love to just, you know, we've, you've shared a lot of wisdom and you've dropped a lot of golden nuggets about that people can use to inform and inspire their journey into making the difference only they can make. If there's just one final reflection, it can be a quote, it can be a lesson, an exercise that would help someone get a little bit more clear about what they want and a little bit more confident about, uh, learning how to get there, what, what would your final, uh, piece of advice be?

Well, go for it. First of all, start, start being curious. Um, the one thing that I will say is don't have a timeline. Um, you know, you said 6 or 7 years, I said 6 or 7 months, who knows. But being open and receptive to what you want does take time. It doesn't come overnight. I, I wanted it to, let me tell you, I wanted to do, but, um, it really was just being open to how things played out, how you were feeling, really diving in and figuring that out takes some time. And it takes some hard moments, maybe some tears, a little bit of journaling. Like, it was, it was a journey. But just go for it. It's worth it. Like, I can say, you know, I'm the happiest almost I've ever been feeling like I'm moving faster to my closer, like faster to my solvable problem than I ever have. Just because of the clarity and awareness that I've gained. And it's not over, but, um, it's just, you know, be curious. Like, get curious and start, like, poking at it to see what happens.

I love that. Well, that's one of our fundamental, um, ideas here at Creative Our Purposes is get curious and then get courageous, um, get creative. So I, I love that, um, and it also reminds me of the— that, that saying, smooth is Smooth, or slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Yes.

So I think it's, that's fantastic advice. Well, everyone, we want to thank you for tuning in. Duane and I really appreciate your time and attention. We hope that today's conversation inspires you and motivates you to take a bolder step into possibility for yourself. To keep go-go going with defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make, visit creativeonpurpose.com. If you're watching on social media or YouTube, please drop a comment Let us know what your biggest lesson, aha, takeaway is. Share a question if that's what's on your mind. And if you're listening as a podcast, please leave us a 5-star review. And it really helps more of the right people connect with these conversations so that they can move forward in the difference only you— they can make. Now take the insight and inspiration from this conversation and, excuse me, play your game all in and full out. Duane, thank you so much for your time today and for sharing your experience and expertise with us.

This has been a lot of fun, Scott Perry Perry. Stay wolfish.