From Survival Mode to Champion’s Mind with Olympian Dr. Jeff Spencer

Welcome to Creative on Purpose, a show about making a better living and a bigger impact by defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make in the next chapter of your life. I'm Scott Perry, Encore Life Coach and author of The Art of Encore Living. If you're ready to play your game and live your legacy, visit creativeonpurpose.com to get started now. Hey, let's introduce our guest, Dr. Jeff Spencer. So thrilled to have you with us. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference you're making.

Well, I'm Dr. Jeff Spencer, and what excites me, I mean, anything that has to do with teasing out all of the assets that a person has to become their own champion in life, to live a life of passion and purpose, productivity, and also prosperity. Just count me in. The best way to kind of get a peek behind the veil at what I'm doing is to go to www. Drjeffspencer.com. Yeah.

So thrilled to have you on. The first question is always around kind of origin story, like, how did you come to be doing what you're doing? And usually, I assert that my guests didn't wake up at the age of 9 thinking, "Hey, you know what I want to be when I grow up? I want to be a coach that helps people achieve their potential and deliver on their promise." But I have a sense that your origin story might actually defy that assertion. So I'd love to hear about how you came to be doing what you're doing.

I was just a really physical little kid, you know. It's like I, I loved throwing balls. I loved— my grandfather had actually a cannonball that I converted into my own shot put. And so anything that was physical, I was all for it. And I saw the Olympics on television. I said, I, I thought that would be just awesome to walk into the stadium and the opening day parade and That was my ambition. And then when I was 11, I showed some amazing talent on a bicycle. Like, wait a minute, you're 10 years younger than these guys. You rode 25 miles for the first time. They're tired and you're not. There's something weird about this equation here. And I said, well, you know, maybe how— that's how I'm gonna do it. So I was very fortunate. I had 3, uh, angels that came into my life that enabled me to become an Olympian. And my first angel was my, uh, cycling coach who chose me, and he brought me into his training group, and he said, Jeff, I train with a group that I've created. There are Olympians here, Olympic medalists, and there are world champions. You're invited to come and listen in and train with us. I'll tell you what to do for your training, but if you have it within you to be a champion, then you will understand the conversation that we're having. And he said, I can't put anything into you if it's not there to begin with, then there's not much more that I can do. But I, I was able to absorb the conversations. I was a kid that was compliant with direction. And, uh, you know, 10 years later, I did become an Olympic, Olympic cyclist. So I owe everything to him because what he did, he taught me how to win. He said that will and talent are important, but it's not everything. Winning is a learned skill, and I'm going to teach you how to win. And he taught me the skill really well. I'm I had a couple of other angels in the process. Uh, one was, uh, a Shakespearean actor. He's a playwright. He was, uh, a university professor. He was an Emmy Award-winning, uh, person that they did a film about his creative philosophy on. And he chose me to be his apprentice to help him create his glass masterpieces, hot glass art. So it was sort of odd, Olympian athlete becomes apprenticeship— it becomes an apprentice to a master artist. And so I was able to absorb that. But what I really got from him is that during our breaks and during lunch, he would tell me, I need to fill you up, Jeff, on classic poetry. I need to fill you up on the classic literary works of history. I need to teach you about classical music, which I had the ability to absorb and take on, which I did. So I can't underestimate the importance of that because where the Olympic coach crafted my body and my tactical mind, he was able to shape my creativity. And then the third, uh, angel I had was a concentration camp survivor in World War II that did not have a venomous bone in his body. This was the most resolved person I've ever met my entire life. And he taught me the etiquette of being gracious and being an appreciative human being. So that was the humanity side of it. So those 3 things together gave me a very unique perspective on the world itself. And then I did get my master's degree in sports science. And with the combination of all that, I was able to look at life in a comprehensive way and to be able to craft how a person gets from point A to point B to perform at their full potential, to manifest their best work, to live a life of value and contribution. So that's kind of the genesis of all how all this came together.

Oh, that's incredible. Um, what I mean, one of the things I'm hearing in that story is, um, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And it sounds like you had some teachers appear in your life right on time, just, just when you were ready. And I love— there's also this kind of, um, thread of an interdisciplinary approach. Like, you didn't just train on your bike and train your muscles, uh, or— and not just train your mindset, you know, to— for, for will and skill on the bicycle, but you had these other influences as well. And one of the things that's always really struck me when I've heard you speak— and this is our first time connecting,, you know, in, in, in the same place at the same time. But you, that, that, uh, quiet leadership, you have this quiet leadership about you that really resonates with me. And I know it resonates with a lot of other folks that are in the Guardian Academy, the Wolf Den, and other places where you show up. And I, I'm guessing that that in part comes from, um, those, those teachers that you were talking about.

Well, I think again, the teachers awoke something that was inside me that was already there. And when you look at the composite of mind, body, soul, and each of those, uh, mentors and angels that I had contributed vastly to that. And so it made it kind of an interesting cocktail in terms of how I experience and how I view and how I respond to life in and of itself. And, and a key thing about this is, is that even though I was and have been excellent in 5 or 6 different disciplines, that was not a dilution of my capacity. It actually was an enhancer to everything that I could do that I ended up doing, because if you get better at any one thing, you get better at everything. It's a matter of finding the areas that, uh, are in alignment with what our skills and abilities really are in crafting the capacity to manifest outcomes from that. And when it comes from that composite, then the unthinkable becomes like possible. So again, human mindset, our natural tendency would be to think, well, if you put all your time and effort into one thing, you'd be better. But, but I found that that's not necessarily true. And so once that myth was exploded for me, then it became possible to increase the reach of what I was capable of achieving in life itself. And I always felt a, an honor and a privilege to be gifted with insights and called into service to do certain things, whether it be to craft and grow my art ability to show in the best galleries in the world. Most importantly was to be the father of an adopted daughter that we adopted at 10, which is the most important achievement I've ever done. I can only say that to explore everything with the idea of building a life that's in alignment with what our natural aptitudes and abilities are creates the greatest opportunity to live a life of value and contribution.

I love that. So you— I love the framing that these teachers helped bring forth what was already inside you. And it reminds me of that quote from the Gospel of Thomas: if you bring forth what is within you, it will save you. If you don't bring forth what is within you, it will destroy you. And, you know, so often, um, it— you know, we need those teachers to help draw our, our greatness out of out of us. But I'm also— and you actually use this word calling, what you were called to do. And so my work is very much informed by, um, two books that I was exposed to in the 7th grade: the Bhagavad Gita, um, which is a text all about vocation and, and the pers— uh, the pursuit of dharma, or the, the embrace of dharma, your soul's true calling, your sacred duty, uh, your purpose, whatever you want to call it. Um, and then Stoic philosophy. And, and I'm just curious, you know, which gives you sort of an operating system for how you can be in the world and still remain true to yourself and your gifts and make meaningful, important contributions to the people that you care about by kind of cultivating your own sense of character, equanimity, and all those kinds of things. And so when you, when I'm just wondering how, if you would articulate a little bit more that idea that you were called to do these things and how did you, you know, at various times hear and heed these, you know, what sounds like various callings, artist, biker, teacher, um, academic, it sounds like at one point. So I just love to hear how, how did you allow, how were you able to show up? Fully for yourself and, and step into your calling?

Probably the most vivid description I could give you is that in the art glass sculpture that I was sharing earlier, that I became extraordinarily proficient at— I was studying and being the apprentice to the master there— is that I, I realized quickly that in the course of creating a sculpture, you had an idea what you thought it might look like at the end. A lot of people spend a lot of time doing studies, and then they just duplicate the study in the medium of their choice, which is really kind of like a technical exercise without a lot of creativity. But I realize that when you're pursuing something with a general idea, uh, which is a projection of what you believe is possible, and it's your reality at that time, and that 90% of what you think is going to happen in life never does, and usually the reality where courses and trajectory are adjusted when the idea meets reality, when you follow that, then I was able to create sculptures that were extraordinarily different than what I could have come up with on the better side by a factor of about a million, because I wasn't trying to bend my perceived reality to what I wanted it to be, but I was in receivership to be able to follow a path that was being suggested to me as the piece was being created.. And to do that, it takes a lot less energy than to try to stick rigidly to a path that's then become obsolete. So I learned really early that when someone asked me about this recently, well, how do you pursue your dreams? Which one do you pursue? I said, I don't pursue dreams. It's like I answer the calling. And what? I said, you know, in the privacy of my own experience, while I'm going on about my daily activities, I have a certain conscious awareness, and I kind of invite into my conscious awareness potential ideas that are worth considering. And that open invitation usually presents some options in front of me that there's a gravity with. I feel like a natural resonance with that I always look at as a potential something that I should be pursuing. And I've always found that when there's a certain response to something that shows up as a possibility, it, it's absolutely 100% clear to me that this is the thing that I should be doing next. And it doesn't mean that I'm not being responsible for my own choices, because I am. It's just another way of doing it that I found to be much more efficient, uh, and much more, um, it carries a level of spontaneity. It's a real-life living process. It's based upon possibility, you know, rather than fear of loss or fear of not being able to keep up or so on and so forth. So I— don't ask me why, but that's something that I saw very early in my life and that it has never let me down. And it's too late now to go back and change things, and at my age, nothing's going to change anyhow. So that's how I have concluded that. And I would like to say a couple other things about this, is that, uh, you know, to stand in receivership is one thing, to get ideas, and then you kind of select from that the ones that carry the most gravity. Then you could play soft offense against them where you kind of test them out a little bit, and there will be a natural resistance in some circumstances, which means yellow light, don't go down that road, caution, you know, take a look around first. But if you get like a green light, meaning that there's no resistance to following this path, then I follow it as far as I could take it, uh, because I feel like it's a bit of an honor ritual to, uh, be able to take something that's gifted to you and take it all the way into the end zone. I found that that has always worked really well for me. And the other thing I'll say to this is that there's a certain another side to this, which is the restraint side. You know, there is a force within it, our human nature, that's survival-based, it's fear-based, and it is very cautious about doing anything. It is very uncertain about our ability to execute certain things, to, uh, get done, which creates a level of, uh, preoccupation or apprehension so that we maybe fear doing certain things, uh, considering what the implications may be if we don't complete something, how we're looked at, so on and so forth. And I found that you have to show restraint deliberately against that survival part of ourself that tries to play it too safely And when you stay in receivership to be gifted with the concept of direction, you have the ability to restrain yourself from drinking the Kool-Aid of not giving it an appropriate try or being too restrictive. But then thirdly, developing the readiness, meaning the skills, the capacity to do the technical things that are necessary to achieve the outcome. Then that to me is a repeat. That is a formula for continuous repeatable ability to manifest the potentials that we see are possible.

That's really resonating really strongly. I just put together a 3-step process for the folks that I'm working with who are trying to figure out what they want to be when they grow up without growing up too much.

God forbid. Yeah.

So, and I know that the second one is restraint, and I took that that directly from something I heard you say, because that really resonated. But, and I use the word receptivity, being open to possibility. And yeah, great word. That there's potential that you have, you know, we are, we're also much more limitless than we give ourselves credit for. So receptivity, what are all the options? Restraint, you know, which ones am I saying no to? Which, which one am I going to say yes to? And then building up resilience so that you can Cause it's going to require work. It's going to require doing some things that probably won't work. And you need to have that, you know, resilience, which I hear you calling readiness to continue your way forward. The thing that you're also touching on something that I'm just curious about your take on this, cause it's something I've been thinking about a lot. I've been, you know, looking at. I also have heard and heeded the call of vocation in several different domains over the course of my life. And, um, one of the things that I think about that's tied to my interest in Stoic philosophy is this idea of destiny. And it's not this idea that I was preordained to live the life that I've lived or to do the thing that I'm doing or do the next thing that I'm going to do. Um, as much as it is, um, kind of— and you, you were speaking to this, this idea of, um, you know, being present and aware and, and connected to the moment that you're in so that you can allow your life to happen through you instead of being in that victim mindset or human mindset where your life feels like it's happening to you and that you become kind of an agent of your destiny. Um, and I'm just curious if you have any thoughts about, like, do you feel like you are— you're living a— that you're living into your destiny, or do you think that you're much more, uh, in control of, of navigating, um, your journey, you know, entirely, uh, through your, your intellect, your will, and all those things?

Well, it's complicated, quite honestly. You know, Spencer's Law is that there's more than zero people in a room at any one time, it's trouble. You know, so all those synonyms are kind of messy to kind of work our way through. But, you know, to say this is that certainly if we are able to hold a space of, again, awareness about where the gravity is and if it's the right gravity where we're really called to something, there's a natural resonance and affinity to it that's different than, you know, the impulse to eat a chocolate cake. I mean, they're, they're two different things there. And, you know, as I said, I'm fearless about going after those things where the gravity is there because I know the source is pure. I'm not— and I've never done anything to showcase myself, build a monument to myself. I've never done anything to show someone that says I can't do it, show them that I can. I think those are not reasons to do anything, my— personally. And so with the destiny side of it, I feel like if we can walk off the field knowing that there's nothing more that could have been done because we did our job as a human, developing the skills, showing up on time, demonstrating the ability to appropriately address fear, make decisions out of what we stand to gain, not what we stand to lose, Do we value our differences, our most important asset, rather than comparing ourselves against other people? I mean, if we can do all those things, and I think the sum total of that for sure is that, can we walk away from anything saying that there's nothing more that could have been done? Especially like at the end of the day where we feel like we deserve our night's sleep, we do, we deserve our dinner because we put an honest day's work into it. To me, that's a really important thing. And you know, as I said, the predestiny thing, maybe, I don't know. But I also feel like pushing too hard, too fast, out of fear to build a world out of safety and acquisition so we feel better, where we feel like we've got all the covers based, all the bases covered, that's more of a defensive life in my opinion. And, you know, I think playing life too defensively is really not a good place to be because we're automatically blocking the channels of insight that can give us ideas that we could never previously have considered possible from showing up in our consciousness. So again, testing the waters, uh, to see what comes back, um, again, I think is a really important thing. But also to take stock of what our assets and our abilities are. I feel like if we try to create a life out of dreaming about something where we don't have the assets to get there, it may take a while to figure out the fact that this is not going to work. And it's like, you know, people think, well, I can be and do and have anything I want. Well, not exactly. I mean, not in and of yourself. I mean, you could do it with a team. You can do certain things by yourself, but, you know, there's other things that need to be cultivated to broaden the scope and the capacity to get from where you are to where you'd like to get to. So in another sense, none of us win alone. We do need people, places, and things to support us. And if we develop the best of what we've got and we can combine with these other things that allow the seemingly improbable to happen, that, that to me is a person that's been able to figure out like the magic secret equation to live a life of, you know, validation and contribution.

I love that. And, you know, it rhymes with kind of the conclusion that I've come to is, because it is a big discussion in the Stoic community, is, you know, this whole idea of destiny, fate, and all that. And what I'm hearing you say is ultimately, it really doesn't matter, because what, what actually matters is the intention and integrity of my efforts, the quality of my choices and my actions. And it speaks to our mutual friend Nick Peterson's idea of the process is the shortcut. And to which I would add, the process is also the reward. Because that's, that's really, you know, the Bhagavad Gita says you are entitled to the fruits of your labor, you are entitled to your labor, but not the fruits of your labor. So it's about, you know, if you pay attention to the process, the rest of it will kind of sort itself out much, much of the time. There's so many things I want to ask you, and we're running out of time quickly here. But I do want you to speak to human mindset and champion's mindset. But before we do that, You've mentioned creativity several times. This is obviously a show called Creative on Purpose Live. I'm always, you know, you have been involved in creative endeavor with your art. I also hear very much that you are a practitioner of the art of living. You are crafting a way of being and doing in the world that is having a huge impact on the people that are fortunate enough to collide with you and your work. Do you have a way that you think about or define creativity?

Well, creativity to me, first thing that comes to mind is having the courage to be able to take action on what's been revealed to you to be true. It doesn't matter whether it's the locker room or the boardroom. You know, we all have our ability to look at possibility. And then it's a matter of looking at the possibility and perhaps adjusting it a little bit and figuring out with the tools that we've got, what can we do with the substrate in front of us, the empty canvas, right? Or what do we need to get to perhaps take what we see to a higher level? And the fact that we are, are gifted with creativity, ingenuity, and curiosity, those should be a clue that We have capacity to take ideas and manifest them in 3 or 2 dimension in the, uh, particular dimension that we currently live in. And I feel that we should always test the hypothesis by giving it a try, but scale it in a way that gives us a fair chance to demonstrate our ability. You don't go for too big, too fast. Because you may talk yourself out of confidence in self, not because you don't have it. It's because the aspiration was too big to begin with. And to me, uh, the ability to manifest is a learned skill that doesn't come naturally to people. And once we learn the skill of it, then we can increase the number of and the significance and the magnitude and the impact of those things that we choose to pursue and to manifest.

Well, that's a perfect setup for you to share a little bit about the human mindset, because what, what I'm guessing is that the things that don't come naturally to us are because our human mindset is oftentimes conspiring with, and often we are complicit with, allowing it to get ourselves in our own way. So I'd love to have you articulate a little bit, you know, what, what these these two terms mean in your work and how you help people step into that champion's mindset, or champion mind, I'm sorry.

Well, there's an inherent conflict in the human species. And I think if we all kind of, you know, reflect on our life, we're being pulled in two directions. Should I do this? Should I not? Continuously about everything. Should it be vanilla or should it be strawberry? You know, do we paint it pink or green? I mean, there's this always this conflict between two different ways of looking at things. There's this ongoing ambiguity that we experience as part of us being part of the human species. And the way that I see it is that there's a biology at work here. This is hardwired into us. It's not put into us. It's hardwired into us in that we do have two mentalities that are competing with each other for control over our decision-making. The very first thing that we have when presented with the set of circumstances is what I call the human mindset, meaning that our survival biology— we do have a survival biology because the first requirement and impulse is to survive, because if we don't survive, then excellence doesn't matter because we're not going to get there anyhow. So we do have hardwired into us, it is part of our biology, it's irrefutable that there is something that pre-exists that is looking at every second, both psychologically, emotionally, and physically, to make sure that we survive. And the way that it works is that, you know, fear is a great motivator, like get the heck out of there or prepare yourself for mortal combat. You know, that's the option that first arises with every second that we've got. As a matter of fact, it's faster than we can think. Why do you say that, Jeff? Well, have you ever said anything to anybody that you felt you were being verbally assaulted by? And you thought it was going to be awesome. Well, how did that turn out when you said what you thought would be awesome? Usually doesn't work out very well. Well, why? Well, because it's a survival response to something. And so therefore, whether it's physical or psychological survival, it's great. It's our friend. We, we need that in critical situations. Otherwise, if we don't survive, then nothing else matters. But it's not a recipe that could take us to a life of contribution and significance. Because it's not designed towards that. It doesn't care about gold medals. It doesn't care about your life, only survival. But I've never met a person that could wait to get up and fail. They've never seen it. Okay, well, then why would that be? Well, maybe we have a drive that's equally as strong, if not more strong, but nobody talks about it, that's hardwired into us to make a contribution, to make a difference. And if we look in the dictionary what it says about human instinct, those things that are also hardwired, Well, yeah, procreate, I get it. Food, shelter, yeah, of course. Well, there's this other one called seeking. Oh, what, what do you mean? That's an odd one. Well, if we're hardwired to seek, what does that mean? It means we're obviously seeking something that's beyond just survival. Well, what might that be? Well, maybe it's a contribution to be able to create something of significance that's in alignment with what our abilities are that serve as a representation of why we're here on this planet, which I think part of that is true because we're here to be a manifestor. If we're here to be a seeker and a creator, well, we, we can't discount that as a possibility, but it has its own set of rules where the human mindset is about survival. The champion's mind— why do I say mind? Because human mindset, it's a rigid state of things that are hardwired and fixed that we can't really do much about. And the champion's mind, mind meaning that it's an entity that has the ability to observe, collate, store, edit, route, interpret, and transmit consciously and thoughtfully. That's very different than a high-speed reflex. That's why I call it mind, not mindset. Mindset is rigid. This is flexible. This is living, breathing. This can adjust the context. And so we have this war 24 hours a day for living a life of excellence that doesn't get first dibs, but it can override our human mindset, the impulse to play it safe and be in combat mode where we're in survival all the time. Again, if you're coming from survival, which is your first dibs, and people say, well, that's just me, and the experts say go with your first impulse, well, I'm not so sure about that. Because if it's your human mindset and you identify that with you, when it's not your creative best, that comes from champion mind, then we're identifying— as a matter of fact, that's the real imposter syndrome. It's not the other imposter syndrome that's in pop culture now. So again, we can see that there's an inherent conflict here. And so what I do know is that, uh, the things that we do are the things that matter. It's not just the things that we think. And so if we're going to— the other thing I wanted to say here also is that Everything that's good in life requires energy be put into it and it be consistently applied to maintain it. Otherwise, it starts to atrophy and wither because the human mindset, our biologic impulse for combat, fight or flight, fear is always on 24 hours a day and you can't shut it off. And it's not a psychological parlor trick that's there because somebody put it into us. That is a real living part of human biology that's undeniable. Again, it can be our friend in survival situations, but it's not a recipe for success. So again, if you want to live a natural life, well, then just live through your impulses. That's fine. Well, good luck. If you want to live a life of contribution, significance, where you're leaving a high-impact legacy, well, that's not going to get you there. That's where the champion's mind that can override the human mindset, when the right things that history has told us to be true are applied as the kind of rules of engagement, then it becomes possible to live a life of— again, I said this before— passion, purpose. What else did I say? Productivity and also prosperity. Then that becomes possible. And so that's the way that I see it. It's the eternal battle that we all live with day in and day out. There are no exemptions. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your status is, what people think about you in terms of, you know, notoriety, the sizes of portfolios. Could care less. There's a certain reality there that kind of just is, and there are no free passes and there are no exemptions from that battle.

I love that framing because in, in a way, it allows us to understand what's going on without blaming ourselves for what's going on because it's biology and evolution have programmed, it's hardwired. We can't undo that just through the power of positive thinking or anything else. But if we recognize that we are, you know, that we are creatures that seek the status quo and safety, and we are creatures that seek and strive at the same time, like we're both of those things Correct. We get to decide which edge, you know, when we're in our champion's mind, we get to decide which edge we need to lead into with a little bit more intention and integrity so that we can move beyond that, that kind of fixed mindset, that, that, you know, survivalist status quo mindset. It's— your work is absolutely brilliant. I love it. The last question is always, and you've delivered plenty of these already, but, you know, this is a broadcast for folks that are contemplating their next chapter. They maybe have woken up to the fact that they've been playing it a little bit safe, playing a lot of defense. Maybe they want to start thinking about how they can play a little bit of soft offense and to step into their potential, maybe step into a little bit more sense of prosperity, purpose, and passion, to use your words. If there was just one, it can be a quote, an exercise, a tip that you would share with someone that is ready to take a slightly bolder step into their potential and possibility in their lives, what would you share with them?

Well, first off, a major tenet in the Champion Space is that you don't step onto the field until you're ready. And I think a lot of people prematurely step onto the field fearing that if they don't take a step now, that the universe will feel like it's not being honored because we're taking too much time. We need to have more faith in the universe to fill in all the gaps. Nobody that plays a big game ever looks at it like that. You know, they make sure they check off all the boxes enough. I didn't say to be perfect. I said enough to know that they're ready to step onto the field. People also are sometimes premature because they feel like, if I don't step onto the field right now, somebody's going to jump and butt in front of me and get first dibs at an idea that I've got. That's a fear-based decision that will backfire. It can't possibly get us to where we want to get to. Another reason why people have a tendency to jump too fast is everybody thinks, well, if you're stalled, then you got to think bigger. The reason why you're stalled is you're not thinking big enough. I think you're going just exactly the opposite direction. I think we need to learn the model and be confident in our capacity because scaling is you're just doing the same thing but at a different magnitude that you've acclimatized yourself to basically over time. So I would just say, take your time, man, and make sure that you've got a model that you can follow that allows you to be able to progressively give yourself a chance to develop and learn the skill. Because if we don't, and we lose confidence in ourselves prematurely because it was too much too fast, then it's easy to get gun-shy and talk ourselves into a much smaller game.

Absolutely brilliant. I love that, that idea that we are sufficient as we strive. We can be both of these things all the time. Really, really profound. I want to thank everyone for tuning in. Dr. Jeff and I really appreciate your time and attention. Welcome. Today's broadcast motivates you to take a bolder step into possibility, to keep go-go going with defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make. Visit creativeonpurpose.com. If you're watching on social media or YouTube, please leave a comment, share a question, share your biggest takeaway from this conversation. If you're listening as a podcast, please leave us a 5-star review. It really helps more of the right people connect with and be transformed by the content that we're sharing here. And Now, please take the insight and inspiration from this, today's conversation and play your game all in and full out. Dr. Jeff Spencer, what a delight and a privilege to speak with you today. Thank you.