Gemi Hartojo on Creative on Purpose Live

All right, here we go.

Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live, a show about defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make in the second half of life so you can live your legacy. I'm your host, Scott Perry, Encore Life Coach and author of The Art of Encore Living. It's time to play your game. Visit creativeonpurpose.com to get started now. I am thrilled today to be with our guest, Gami. Gami, welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Well, hello everybody, um, I am Gummy Hartoyo and I am a business coach for Muslim women entrepreneurs, and I help women entrepreneurs, uh, get out of themselves and get their business going. I also help entrepreneurs along their journey to become the person that they want to be in the life that they want to live as a Muslim and play all the roles that they need to play as a Muslim. So that's who I am. And what am I up to these days? Actually, I'm up to— I have a business accelerator program that I've been running for those who are interested in starting up their business. And I've now branched it out to those who are moms, as well as those who are Indonesian moms who want to start up their business. So this is what I'm up to these days, and I'm so passionate about those who just don't have an opportunity to really stand up and do what they want to do. Yeah. And where can you find me? gimmeheartoyo.com. It's right there on the banner. And I'm so glad for you guys to be here.

Yeah, well, it's— I love— you know that I'm a big fan of your work. Gimme and I have worked together in the past in the Coaching Business Prescription Accelerator. I got to actually witness the birth of her accelerator, and it's thrilling to see that it's continuing to be a thriving enterprise. One of the things I'm always interested in unpacking with guests is, you know, how did you get where you are now? I'm guessing that little 9-year-old Kamee did not wake up one day and say, you know what I want to be when I grow up? I want to be a coach to advancing and aspiring Muslim women entrepreneurs. So give us a little sense of the journey? How did, how did you get to be doing the work that you're doing now?

Well, you know, you're absolutely right, Scott. It is not a linear line. I grew up to, like anybody else, go to school, get my degree, get my graduate degree, kind of follow the path, get that job, do all the Fortune 500 wonderfulness, and we get into that like corporate world. And honestly, at the end of the day, I kind of felt, felt like I was a fish in like out of water, right? It was just like not feeling it. I stepped into the startup world and I really love that world. I learned incredible, um, so much there, and I learned a lot about my own self. And through that, um, I became a consultant. And when I became a consultant, I realized people don't like to be told what to do. No. Um, you would do all that work and nobody wanted to do what you had told them to do. And I got into coaching. I got a a full-blown scholarship from the Co-Active Training Institute and have been on a path to help people build businesses, but not through telling them how to do it, but guiding them and encouraging them and empowering them to do it. So it's been a really great game changer. I have people who, who did not know anything about business, didn't even know how to put anything together, and now they are changing their own world and other people's world. So this is, this is what I live for.

That was really awesome. I love the, um, the— there's a couple things I want to, um, couple threads I'd like to pull, but that last thing that you said, um, really struck up— stuck out to me, this idea of, um, helping people that maybe had never even thought about having a business that you're, you're just starting with. Mm-hmm. That popped to my mind is I know that in my work, working with, uh, coaches that have existing businesses that are really struggling to, you know, meet a monthly revenue goal, get their programs filled, mm-hmm, that so much of the time it's, we have to spend time unlearning all these bad ideas, bad habits that we have, uh, learned from the gurus and, uh, you know, everyone that has a, a program out there with, uh, the, the 7-step solution or the, the quick trick or hack that's going to explode your business. Um, what's interesting to me about what you said is, you know, with someone that hasn't really considered starting a business, there's not that unlearning, but what you have the opportunity to do is to start them with the essentials. What are the first principles? So I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, if someone is starting from zero, how do you get them from zero to one?

Well, you know, the biggest, uh, thing is that they themselves have this like dream. They don't know what it is, but it's just kind of nagging. They know that there's something more for them. And so what I do is I really help them, um, not just go into the thing of business, right? So there's this notion— I'm there with you, Scott Perry— like, there's this, what do you call it, I don't want to say charlatan, but those who are gurus out there who say these are the steps that you need to do. Business is not linear. Business is really personal. It's tailored, you know, real business is tailored to who you are. And so a big focus of my program is to tailor who you are first What is it that's nagging you that wants you to grow? And then how can we illuminate and find out what is your specialty, your uniqueness? So rather than going out in the world and saying, oh, I want to compete with others, or I want to be better than the other, just be you. And that's what I love about your program, because I love that you, um, you're not— it's not really a prescription. In the sense of a real prescription, but sort of like a, hey, um, look at this framework. This— what, what are you— where are you at on this thing? And it's really interesting that you find yourself like— and you know this about me, right— doing the, doing the stuff as opposed to the thing that I need to do next. So, um, and, and that's, that's really what I do in, in, in my, in my work.

Yeah, I love that. Well, just to, to address that idea of a prescription. There's a difference between a prescription and being prescriptive. So the gurus, many of whom are charlatans, um, are, you said it's, are prescriptive, right? They say prescriptive. They say, here's how it's done. Follow my roadmap. Follow my plan. Um, if you did it wrong, your mindset must have been broken.

Yes.

And that's, that's prescriptive treatment does not work. But a prescription is something that is uniquely designed for the individual. So when someone is coming in and saying, I'm struggling with my business, you know, what should I do? The only right answer is it depends, because it depends. And this is what you do so beautifully in your work. And something I really try hard to do as well is let's take a look at who you are. What are your— what's your unique talent? What's your unique gift that you can bring into the world? And then what are the few essential things that we need to kind of dial in and get good enough to get you moving, get a, get a little bit of traction that we can then, uh, that then gain some momentum with so that we can scale your business to whatever level it is that you, that you want to have. And that, that idea, uh, that you shared about the way that you're trying to help women dial in, you know, in business, we call it the unique value proposition or differentiating value proposition, but it's. What's the, the unique way that you do the thing you do? Because that's going to get people who share your values and need your talents to enhance their lives to, um, take a step closer to working with you. So I, I really love that. And this ties into something else that you said that I want to hear more about. You talked about empowering other people, and I think, you know, this is just a byproduct of of any good coaching, but some people lead with like, this is, this is what I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to empower you. It's like, well, the power's already there. You're not empowering them. You're, you're helping them tap into the power that's always laid within them. So I just, I would love to, to hear a little bit more about like, how, how do you, um, because your audience, you know, being women, I know from working with, um, about 80% of my clients are women and culturally they are not used to seeing and stepping into and staying in and leveraging their power. They're culturally told that you need to help other people first, always put other people first. So I just curious to pick up a couple tips from you. How do you help the audience that you serve, which is women, um, go, go into that empowerment process where they can see and step into and stay in their power so they can share it to make the change that only they can help other people make?

So my approach is I come from, uh, I guess a more philosophical, like, way, and I do lean into the teachings of Islam, but I think it, it, the, the, the key teaching is gratitude. So, so the, the key here is um, to tap into gratitude. And all of us, men, women, whatever the race or culture background is, have something to be grateful for. And I think that when we are taking time to service everybody else, um, we are really not showing gratitude to our maker and to the gratitude of our capacities, capabilities, specialties, talents, right? It's kind of like Oh, you know, you're a really great baseball player, but I'm just going to go play ice hockey because I'm just going to play ice hockey, right? But you're actually a really great baseball player. And now it does the world no service when you don't go out and step out into who you have been given. Like, it's like, you're great at what you do, Scott Perry, and it is a crime, literally, for you to not step into what you do best. And it is a crime for anyone to do that. So this sort of change in perspective, when I, when I talk about that with my clients and, you know, my groups and all that, it gets a lot of thinking because the last thing anybody wants is to have ingratitude.

Yeah, it's such a— I mean, well, there's several things to amplify there. I think, number one, I love that, you know, you have this philosophical and spiritual element to what you do. You know, the, as you know, the ancient philosophy of Stoicism and the ancient spiritual tradition unpacked in the Bhagavad Gita is really an inspiration and provides a lot of insight to the way that I interact with clients. And as I, we were working on your offer, and you were, I was learning more about your process, I could see so many intersections and overlaps, um, with the traditions that I employ and the traditions that you employ. Um, so it's just kind of interesting that, you know, the divine works in, in many, many different ways, in some ways speak to, uh, more loudly to us than others. Um, and that in the Bhagavad Gita it's called dharma, and dharma is your sacred duty. This is the thing that you were put on Earth to You know, it is your duty to, um, engage and exploit your gifts. This is the way that you're going to make your mark on the world. This is the way that you're going to live your legacy. And, and, and this is how you make the difference only you can make to help make things better for people. And I love hearing that, um, echoed in, in what you were saying, that, you know, people have a gift and they need to embrace their gift. They, the The thing that I would love a little further reflection on though, is something that I noticed, which is sometimes you can shine a light or point someone, um, in the direction of, of that sacred duty of their, um, of their unique gift. And they will continue to be complicit in getting in their own way in terms of not, not actually embracing that, not actually employing that, doing that work. Um, So I wonder, you know, I think of that as just a seductive, like, we're scared, right? We're all, we're creatures that, um, don't like to stand up, be seen, speak up and be heard because in our prehistoric brain, it means we're going to get tossed out of the tribe and thrown into the howling wilderness where we'll starve to death. Um, how do you, how do you help people that are, you know, have a sense that their life is speaking to them because it wants to speak through them, but they're still hesitant to actually step into their potential and possibility.

And this is, this is such a deep question. Um, I don't mind talking to you about it because I know you always bring the graveyard with you, but I think the, um, I think the concept of it is the same because what's, you know, uh, death is, uh, inevitable, right? Um, at the end of the day, uh, for us, you know, we believe in this life and the hereafter. Um, therefore, it's— we're going to be asked, like, what, what did you do? What'd you do with your life? What— I mean, what— I gave you, you know, hands that were able to weave amazing baskets, or whatever it is, right? And what did you do with that? And that is a huge fear, and it's not something that I'm going to bring on, but it's, it's where is that person at now. We can plant a seed, but we can't, we can't change anybody, um, to want to want something different, right? They may have to go through that path, um, and eventually like, oh, they have a light bulb go off. Um, really all we can do is shine a light, illuminate. I, I, I, I think I agree with you. It's like, you know, the whole— you're you and your graveyard photos. Um, do shine a light. It's a reminder.

I love that. I love that, that metaphor though, of you're going to be held to account.

Yes.

At life's end, what did you do with the gifts that were bestowed upon you? Um, I think I, I'm gonna have to steal that one because that's a, an element of that conversation with yourself on your deathbed that I have not really talked about before or thought about before. But, um, you know, and it's that life ends that makes it meaningful. You have a finite amount of time, uh, to, to make the most of the time and the gifts and the opportunities that you have. I really love that.

And it's not only a finite time, but it's also a time that we don't even, we don't know. It's not guaranteed. How about that? It's like, it's not guaranteed.

Well, that's actually really interesting because it brings up another challenge that I think we have as, as coaches and, and we have ourselves as human beings is we are creatures that Um, you know, we, we have kind of this dual nature. We, um, we have— everyone is born with a certain spirit of adventure. We like to seek the edges of our understanding and ability. We like to have those moments of awe and wonder. Um, but at the same time, we love the status quo because we like to know where we stand and what's expected. This is you know, speaking to that fear piece again, where we don't want to stand out because it might mean that we get thrown out. And so we're always kind of, I think we all have, we're all born with different temperaments and tolerances about novelty and certainty. And, but it's also something that, that we as coaches can teach. You and I have spoken about this idea of empathetic antagonism. Of shining a light and creating generous tension that helps people get uncomfortable enough to do something, to take an action that will help them close the gap between where they are and where they want to be. Like, and that's, that's one of the things that's, um, really interesting to me as a coach is people can be very explicit about what they want. Like, I want this. And you can then say, well, here's the things that— some of the things that you'll need to do. And then, and now the excuses come. Well, I can't do that, and I can't do that. I don't have time for this, and my, my wife won't let me do this, or, or what have you. So what are, what are some of those tricks or those, those techniques that you use?

Techniques, you know, you know, it's quite interesting because again, I think this goes back to the philosophy. And, you know, my style of coaching is all based on Islamic values. And I go back to the teaching at the end of the day, we are accountable, right? And what's interesting about humans is that we have all been given the gift of choice, unlike any other, any other, um, uh, I guess creation, right? Any other creation on this planet. We are humans and we have been given the gift of choice. And we have a choice from an Islamic perspective, right? We have a choice to live from a place of gratitude and live into our life purpose, right? Or we have a choice to follow the masses or follow kind of what, uh, like other creations, so to speak, right? So for example, um, oh, my husband didn't tell me I'm not allowed to do it, my this, I can't do this, I bought this. So at the end of the day, um, from an Islamic perspective We're going to ask the question, or I will ask the question, or we all ask the question: who is it that you— who is your Lord? Who is your Creator? Who is it? Is it the creation or is it the Creator, right? Um, and that's kind of the perspective that, um, that, that I have as well, is, you know, many Muslims have, you know. And we forget, you know, we, we say— we, we— a very famous usad Ustadha said, um, we hear and we obey. The thing that we hear and we obey, which is like, oh, buy the new fashion jeans, yay, we hear anyway. That's our Lord, that's our— that's who— that's who we worship. Um, so it comes back again, it comes down to that. And is it easy? Absolutely not. It's not, it's not easy.

Yeah, it reminds me, uh, a little bit of, um I've been following Randy Massingale, who was a coach to Bill Gates and the team at Microsoft in the '90s. And in talking about this kind of self-efficacy and this, this leadership, this idea of leadership from the inside out, which I think is kind of what we're talking about when we talk about empowerment, is, you know, people stepping into their, their power to make those choices that you were just talking about and to actually do the thing that needs to be done. And he has this phrase that he uses where he tells his clients that, you know, this idea of discipline, like doing the things that need to be done, are you doing them in a way that you would be proud of? And, you know, the root, the word discipline is related to the word disciple. And he's, and so his phrase is, would you be a disciple of yourself? And that really hits home for me because I can think of plenty of moments, moments in my day, every day, where I would not be a disciple of myself, you know, when I'm heading for the peanut butter jar for the third time in the day, because not because I'm hungry, but just because I need that, need to be whatever that is, what feed that pain, whatever that pain is. Um, So I really like that idea of, uh, you know, again, being accountable. Um, and I can't— what was the phrase that you, you used? The lord of yourself, or something along those lines?

Uh, oh, for— I mean, sorry, which, which part is it? Which part are we talking about?

It was, it was something about something along those lines. Uh, you know, when you're making your choices, you're, you're Oh yes, yes, yes.

So it's like either when you make choices, either you are doing the thing that is right by your creator or you're following something else, right? And, um, or you're following this as something else or the creation, right? So for example, you have another person who is just like you, was created by the creator, and, um, they say do this and you jump. Like they say jump and you jump, right? So we have to ask ourselves, like, who is it that I'm accountable to? Right? And, and really, really think about that, like, who am I really accountable to?

And that idea, I mean, you and I both practice of starting clients with, like, let's talk about values, right? What are the, what are your guiding principles? What are the things that you hold dear? What are the values upon which you would not equivocate?

And absolutely.

For me, tying this into what you were just saying, is, you know, when, when we are looking to the gurus, uh, for, um, you know, advice for the next tactical shiny thing, we're looking for a roadmap. The thing about roadmaps is they can only take you where other people have gone and where actually everyone else is going, which is not a very good way to differentiate yourself and your services and, and, you know, find your unique position in the marketplace and, and the audience that you're really meant to serve. And so values for me are, provide more of a compass, like, this is, this is how I'm going to wayfind my way into where I'm supposed to be, not where necessarily where everyone else is going. So I just wonder if there's any other skills that, that you teach or ideas that you have around, you know, how do you help people lean into that idiosyncratic gift that they have so that they can turn that into a viable enterprise that will make them a better living while they're making things better?

You know, this is really a difficult question, but I will say like values are very important. Now, gifts are actually the question you have to ask yourself is what do people usually say about me? Right? So what is that thing that you leave behind? Like, okay, yeah, you, you cook really well, or you do this spreadsheet really well, but the thing that they say about you isn't the, hey, you did a great spreadsheet, but wow, the way you explained it was super easy. So now what is the gift here? The gift is the ability to take something very complicated and make it digestible. Oh, so my gift here is create— taking difficult things and making it digestible. Let's lean into that gift. Digestibility. So like headline, just digestibility, and actually sit down and say, okay, what is it that I'm trying to do here, right? What is it? What is the thing that I'm offering? And let me lean into my digestibility, right? Like making 5-second videos on like whatever. I mean, I'm— this is like out there, but it could be something very simple that is needed by your audience that they don't even feel that they're learning something or doing something or whatever it is, right? So let's lean into those things. So, um, and I'll take my example, which is, um, I can really, um, bring people together in a very open and, um, like non-judgmental, like, place. And what I've done prior pandemic is I would bring many Muslim women together to talk about business. I don't know who they are, they don't know each other, it's just happening. This needs to be amplified in how, right? And therefore community is probably a really important thing in my own business. So we have to really lean on— values are great because here's what happens, let me tell you, people like to shop for values. I bet you everybody's watching this video is probably like, Google values, and you're coming with Brené Brown's like list of values. Thank you, but no thank you. Please don't do that. And so think about like not only values, but what are your real gifts? What do people say about you? What do you— what do people say about you all the time?

That's really interesting. I love that. I love that. Yeah, because I think when we— I have surveys that clients can take around values and identifying values and talents. And I will tell them, I don't want you to take this by yourself. I want your spouse to ask the questions because you need someone to say, are you— because oftentimes we answer questions that are in an aspirational way. Well, I'd like to be a more honest person, a more gifted person, a more kind person. So yeah, something to be Mindful love. I love, I love all of this. Give me— we're coming to the end of our time together. We always end with a question. You know, people that are tuning in are people like you and I that are either advancing in some sort of, um, endeavor or aspire to create something that will provide them with a sense of fulfillment and meaning and help them make the difference only they can make in life. You've already delivered a lot of gems around this, but if there was just one final tip, and it can be a quote or a maxim or, um, just some sort of lesson that you would like to teach. If, if some— if you had one thing to leave folks with that would help them see, step into, and stay in their power to make the difference only they can make, what would that be?

Remember that there is only one of you in this world. You are unique. You do not need to compete with anybody. Anyone, anything.

I love it. I love it. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Gamia and I really appreciate your time and attention. We hope that today's conversation encourages you to take a bolder step into possibility, living into your potential. To keep go-go going with defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make, visit creativeonpurpose.com. If you're watching on social media or YouTube, leave a comment, share a question, or just tell us what your biggest takeaway is from this conversation. If you're listening as a podcast, please leave us a 5-star review and write a few lines. It really helps more of the right people connect with this content and the messages being delivered by my guests. Now, take the insight and inspiration from today's show and play your game all in and full out. Camille, thank you so much for sharing those wisdom nuggets with us today. Appreciate you very much.

You're welcome. Thank you. Likewise, Scott Perry, thank you so much for the opportunity, and it is a pleasure.