How Productized Marketing Can Transform Your Business

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Welcome everyone. This is a live broadcast up from the Purpose Driven Prosperity Model Substack publication. My name is Scott Perry, the author of the aforementioned publication. I'm here with my good friend Jake, and I asked Jake to come on and educate me and hopefully in the process also educate you about something I've seen him talking a lot about. On a rival publication. I'm gonna let him name, uh, his platform, but, uh, it's this idea of productization, which is— I think of, Jake, and I want you to speak to this maybe after you introduce yourself— I think of it as kind of a buzzword right now. You see like Justin Wallace and people like that talking about it, but the way that Jake's been talking about it, as I've been following his newsletter, um, it really makes sense and it really aligns with the principles and the philosophy and the way we want to show up and become the kind of person that succeed in business that we talk about in the Solopreneur Success Circle, which Jake is a frequent contributor and participate in. So Jake, let's dive in. But first, just give everybody a little sense of who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate it. So Jake Anderson, and just a little summary about who I am and what I'm up to these days. I am the founder, lead strategist, head honcho, whatever you want to call me, of Gravity Web Studio, where I build and design service-based websites that are value-driven. So your value, it communicates, so we communicate your value with the right people so they take the right action. So work in web design. I also have my own publication called, just called Build with Jake. You can just go to buildwithjake.club. I do use Beehive. That's the competitor, which is, you know, we all have our platforms of choice, but it is built on Beehive. But I do publish a lot of articles and content to that platform. I've been in creative services now for 16 years. So with that particular endeavor, I'm really just focusing on kind of extracting out a lot of the anecdotes that I've learned over the years, as well as building community and contributing communities within my network, like the Solo Preneur Success Circle that Scott's managing, and just trying to bring people together and all for the common goal of building a business that we love. And specifically with my endeavor of Build with Jake, it's also about so you don't lose the love for the craft. That's a big part of my messaging and something that I've experienced as a person who sells creative services where It's like you go into it because you love the craft, and then when you use that craft as a way to make money and to monetize, it can go from a love for the craft to a resentment towards the craft. So how can we model our creative service businesses so we actually have fulfilling lives, we continue to love what we do, and serve the people who need us most? So yeah, as far as— that's my backstory. I guess you wanted to hop into productization. I know it is a buzzword for sure, and I'm happy to dig a little bit more into That's kind of how I see it with marketing.

Well, before we dive into the productization and kind of defining our terms and then talking about how you can help us all leverage this approach to get close, close the gap in terms of where we're trying to get to with our business, I just want to say to everybody that's tuning in, we got Penny and Tope and Brian, that although I am a huge fan of Substack. I recognize that different platforms are better for different people. I highly recommend anybody that resonates with what we talk about at the Purpose Driven Prosperity Model, check out Jake's publication on, on Beehiiv. There's a lot of synergy and alignment in the way that we both think about business and how it should fit and fund the lifestyle that you actually want to be living. And Jake is just bona fide the best web designer I've ever come across. And so if you're looking for that kind of service, I would encourage you to check out his website and see if he might be a good fit for you. So Jake, productization, I mean, it sounds like it might mean something and it might be good, but I see lots of different ways of defining it and approaching it. So for you, How would you define productization and what are the benefits and if any, what are the blind spots or downsides of thinking in terms of productization?

Yeah, so I think there's a couple ways of looking at productization and I had read an article that talks about productized marketing. There might be a There might be a better term for it. It was just a term that came to my mind, and, and I'll get into the, the reasoning as to why I came up with productized marketing as the label. But it's really like a way to approach your marketing. It's very similar to like how you call it be a blessing of marketing. I'll give some examples to this because I feel like examples will kind of pull the context together in a way that makes sense. Before I got into web design, I used to own an event lighting company. I owned it for 10 years. We did high-end lighting applications for weddings and any kind of a special event where it was more formal, you know, ballrooms, big tented events, things like that. And when I had started in that business, I remember for years it was like, I was kind of doing all the same things that, you know, you typically do in marketing. You're out there, you're getting your messaging out and You know, you're going to networking events and you're, you know, displaying at trade shows and hitting all those different channels and touchpoints. And the thing that really changed the game for me in that business was what I call productized marketing. And what it really means is you're, it's just how you approach your marketing. It works really well specifically with strategic partners, but I think it could also work if you go directly to the actual market, to the clients. I used it for strategic partners as part of my strategy. And the way it worked was like this. I had 4 primary categories of strategic partners in special events. I had wedding planners, venues, rental companies, and catering companies. So you can think of these as like, I was essentially outsourcing my lead generation to those folks. Because they're speaking to my ideal client every single day, every single day. Somebody's coming into the venue and asking the question of, hey, like, we want to make this space look amazing. We've got the florals figured out, we've got the linens. What about lighting? Right? So lighting would come up. It always came up. Eventually I just realized that customer journey, this is the sequence of decision-making. So I'm going to double down on optimizing this journey for my business. That's what I did. So where productization of marketing came in was how can I add value to these strategic partners in a way that increases their perception of value and how they can serve their clients, but as a result generates leads back to me on the backend. So the way I did it was by approaching it the way I would approach any product. It's like, when you build a product. And when I say product, I'm not talking about like a physical product or info product. I even think of service, even though we're getting into semantics here, even though they are two different things theoretically, I still look at even like what I do with web design. This is my product. You know, some people come to me and there's an experience that I deliver that creates a result. And that's my product. You know, everything from the onboarding into, you know, how I actually go through the delivery process, through strategy, through design, through development, through, you know, launching the website and handing it off with SOPs. Like, that's all part of product. So it's like, well, what if I approach my marketing that way? Like, I mean, I put so much emphasis into adding value to this delivery that maybe I can do this also with my marketing. So this— we're talking web design, bringing it back to the lighting design piece. The way I did it was, um, I thought, okay, where can I, where can I add value to venues based on the skills and resources that I have? And how can I package this up where it increases their perception of value while on the back end generates leads for me? And what I did was a couple things. The first was a site visit. So I'm going to get into like specific examples here. In those site visits, I would call up, I would call up a venue. I did this mostly with venues. I would call up a venue and say, hey, my name's Jake. I'm with this lighting company. I don't own it anymore, so I'm always really hesitant to say the name of it, but I'm with this lighting company and, you know, I'm working on building our venue, venue specifications for our database. I'd love to come in and do a full analysis of your room. And what this does is I'll go in, I'll build out a whole schematic of the space. All the measurements. I'll look at opportunities for rigging. I'll look at your power arrangement and I'll figure out where the opportunities are where we can enhance this room with design. So I need to do this anyway because if a client ever came to me, I still, I need this, I need this data so I know exactly what we can do in the venue space. So I use this as my approach to marketing. Well, when I went out there, I built this nice package. It had schematics and everything was buttoned up with, with, um, what do you call them, like layouts that had all the measurements. I talked about power. I had different packages and things that could be done in the space to enhance the design. And I gave it to the venue just as I would any product. Like, here's the deliverable. This is in my database, but I want you to have it as well because when the topic of lighting comes up, you now can communicate this more effectively to your clients. So that's what I mean by like I created almost like a little mini product. That was actually used as part of my marketing strategy. And that was a big part of the catalyst to the growth that I had in that business. That among a couple of things that was, that was a big part of it was just finding ways where I can enhance the value with strategic partners through some kind of a product that's, that's also used for marketing. With web design, I'm doing the same thing. It's, it's, it's going to start showing its face a little bit more here in the next probably I'd say 2 to 4 weeks. I'm almost done with it, but I have a whole methodology for web design and it's called the PULL method and it's an acronym for PULL, which stands for prepare, unify, lift, and launch. So when I go through web design, this is the process I go through. I've got a whole content workbook I've created that goes through messaging, site plans, the whole thing. From start to finish. But what I've done is I've actually turned it into its own product. And I'm working with different consultants and coaches and people like that who are speaking to my clients every single day that I can say, listen, if the topic of web design comes up, this is a package. You're welcome to distribute it if you think it makes sense for you and aligns with your values and how you think about content. But it's you, it's a resource, it's for you to deliver if you feel like there's a use with it. And, um, I have calls that I'm going to be hosting every week for anybody that just wants support, whether they're doing the website, whether they're building the website themselves. Here's my methodology, you can follow it. There's a call every Friday, I open up a Zoom room, you're welcome to come in and have a chat. Um, but if you want me to do it, if you want me and my team to do this for you, you can hire us too. And the way I see it is I'm taking something, my methodology, I'm turning it into a product that's then used as part of my marketing strategy for that creates, it's a force multiplier because it's not only increasing the value of my strategic partners, but it's also creating lead generation on the backend for me. So that's productized marketing. How I see productized marketing. That's why I call it productized marketing because like my mind just immediately thinks like, yeah, I'm kind of creating a little product here. That I'm distributing out to the market, it's adding value to the market, but it's also, you know, in return bringing back opportunities for me that I can work on. And you can think about this, you know, it just takes some time to really think about this through your own business. I always say, um, in the way to kind of reveal that opportunity is to really think about customer journey. I talk about customer journey a lot. It's like, what's the sequence of like, how do people make decisions when it comes to your specific service or product. So like in events, like I knew the sequence of decisions was like the first thing people do when they get engaged, when it comes to planning their— I mean, everybody does things a little bit different. I can tell you right now, the first thing is not go find a lighting company. It's not that. It's usually pick out the venue. Where are we going to have it? And then from there, they might go hire a wedding planner. They might go speak to a catering company, but I'm a little bit further down the list. So I want to go up to the top of the list where some of these big key decision makers are making decisions and ask myself, how can I be the best resource possible for them with what I do? It's like, Scott, you talk about this a lot. You know, you should, you know, go out there. There's only, only you can do this work and you need to be out there doing the work that only you can do. And it's the same thought process here. It's like, okay, I have this resource, I've built this thing out. We're the only ones in this market that can do it this way. And I need to find the people that can benefit most from it and add as much value to them as I possibly can. But, you know, not just clients, but also people that are strategic industry players within that market that I can, you know, enhance, enhance that experience for.. So yeah, that's productized marketing.

So I, I just want to highlight a couple of things. One is that, um, what— when you talk about productized marketing, it definitely does really align with Be a Blessing Marketing, which is the approach that I, I teach my clients, which is rather than become a full-time digital marketer so that you can promote the thing that you actually want to be doing with your time, and, and, you know, and for most entrepreneurs, they literally become like full-time content creators for social media, YouTube, podcasting platforms, etc., um, as a way of getting people that might be interested in the product or service that they have to pay attention and lean in to learn a little bit more. In both of our approaches, what's happening is you're actually just doing the great work that you do in the way that only you can do it,, and that becomes your marketing. And one of the things that I love, as you were sharing your example, is I realized that I am doing this very same approach with, uh, what I call Inbox Catalyst, which is, uh, a coaching, a low-ticket, low-cost, affordable coaching by email program that helps a solopreneur identify what they're actually trying to accomplish where they're actually starting from and what they're starting with and defining the 2 or 3 things that have to be optimized in their success system to start to get traction and momentum in achieving their goals. And the first set of exchanges are absolutely free because it's not going to do me any good to have a client come in and say, "I need help with my Facebook content creation." And my first question is, "Why are you on Facebook?" And then, 'cause usually it comes up, oh, well, actually I really hate Facebook, but I just have to be on Facebook 'cause that's what people do. It's like, well, no you don't. So rather than just start solving an unnecessary problem that's actually not a problem that has any impact on what their goal is, I wanna set them up for success by clarifying their direction, crafting their path, and starting to help them see the first few microsteps that will start to get them going. And just like you were talking about with the initial, you know, information you need for web design or the venue layout for lighting design, like you need this anyways. So it's just actually part of your craft. It's just actually part of doing what you do. And the thing that's really beautiful about this to me is it's very different than the way I see other people talking about productization, which is create, like, host a workshop, turn it into an online course, uh, you know, host a workshop and then create a mastermind to talk about the workshop, which is, can be effective, but again, it's, you're, there's so much more work involved What you're talking about is the ultimate efficiency move. Like, I'm gonna have to do this anyways, I might as well do it upfront. And does nothing but amplify and enhance your chances of earning that person's investment in going further. You know, people are— in some ways, you're using exposure and proximity to help set people up for the ultimate next move, which is they're going to have to get access to you to implement the things that you're talking about.

Yeah, I want to add something to your point there. And I think we're on this, like, there's a couple things I want to say, like, as you're talking, like, oh man, just light bulbs are going off here. The first thing is, On that kind of initial free productized marketing package, whatever you want to call it, that you're, you're kind of putting out there initially for people. Something that kind of occurred to me as you're speaking where to kind of pull it into context, because sometimes people are like, okay, well, what, you know, what should that be for me? Like, what could that be for my business? And one thing that is really like we always talk about, or people, you always hear, you want to attract your ideal client. You know, who's the ideal client? The person, like, you got that person that shows up and like, man, if I could just have more Scott Perrys in my world that show up and, you know, whoever that person is, it's just like, they're so easy to work with. You created this amazing outcome. And it's like, if I could just have more of those people. Well, with the productized marketing, and I noticed a pattern as you're speaking and even reflecting on my own businesses. Is, um, a big part of that ideal client is like how you frame things up for them and kind of getting through some of that initial work that has to be done for them to become an ideal client. So like with the lighting business, it was having clarity around the venue and what's needed in the venue to understand what the opportunities were. So it's like, I need to do this anyway. I need this clarity when somebody comes to speak to me. I want to be able to have a productive conversation with them. And if I've already done this work, we can have that productive conversation and get to that result much more smoother. So it just makes more sense to do this. With my web design and kind of these calls, like the biggest, and I'll just say this, like with people I've worked with in web design, I can tell you right now, the thing that's most difficult in that whole process is getting the initial content package pulled together. It's like, what's your messaging? You know, do you have like your brand assets together? I need your logo, your colors. Like we have to have that identity ready, getting through that initial package. And I have a lot of clients that'll come to me or prospect, prospective clients that are like, they just, I don't have any of this done. I'm not even really sure what I'm supposed to do or how to pull this together. So these calls I'm hosting, it's like most of it's just around helping you build that content package so you do have what you need to move forward with building out the website, at least using the process that I have. Because if somebody has all together, it's going to make my life and their life, we're all just going to have so much, so much of a better experience on the actual implementation piece. So that's the first thing. The second thing I want to respond to was you're talking about Facebook or like You know, do I actually need to be here? I don't want to be here, but I feel like I have to be here because if I don't, then, you know, I'm going to miss out on potential business or leads. I actually sent a message to Dr. Brie a couple days ago about this. And I said, you know, I said, this sounds kind of wild, but I'm thinking about just getting off, like, I'm kind of thinking about just getting off social media. And I know, and we don't have to go down too much of a rabbit hole here. I just want to make a point. I, I, cause I had, I had went back and I looked at all my data and it's like social media generates no leads for me. It contributes for me personally. And I'm not saying it doesn't, doesn't work for other people, but for me, it's like my business and my growth comes from other places than social media. So I'm like, well, I put energy in social media and I'm like wondering You know, does this make sense for me to contribute putting energy to? I don't, you know, I get very distracted by social media. So if anything, it almost feels like a net negative in my life. And it kind of like challenges you, you know, there's certain things like you don't want to do it, but you feel like you have to do it because there's some bias or some narrative out there, or somebody's gotten in your head that says that in order to be successful, you got to do these things. And so I just wanted to put that— you said that it was kind of an interesting time for me as I'm like making— I'm not saying I'll fully get off social media, but I'm definitely rethinking how I'm approaching it for sure.

Well, that's a great point. And I just want to do a quick shout out. We've got Dr. Bria on the live here. We've got Penny and Elizabeth. These are all folks that are members of our community, the Solopreneur Success Circle. You can find out more about that at the Purpose, Serve, and Prosperity model Substack publication if you're tuning in and listening. Here's a couple of things that come up for me based on what you just shared. The first is with this idea of productized marketing, which is actually kind of very much the same as Be a Blessing marketing, the marketing, the way that I've named my marketing approach. Number one, we've already said it, but I'm going to say it again. You get to actually— you spend all day doing the great work that you do and the way that only you can do it and making change happen with and for people that you actually care about. And that becomes the marketing. There's absolutely no necessity to grind out content for social media or YouTube or a podcast or write a book or any of the other things that the gurus will tell you have to do. So the other thing is that you're also going to increase the odds that you're talking to people that are problem aware and solution aware. So you're talking to people that actually understand the problem that they have, and they're trying to choose from amongst all the solutions that they've come across so far, which means those are, those are, um, Those are buyers that are ready. Like, you know, if a person recognizes the problem they have and they have decided they've suffered enough and you can show up and demonstrate expertise in your ability to help them get closer to what they want, then over time, that those conversations, as they continue to lean in and get and step into your world and talk to you, they're, there's buy-in and lock-in. They're not really talking to anybody else. They're already kind of honed in on how am I going to make this work, working with Jake to get the best website possible. Um, the, the other, and I, I want to speak to, you know, just put another layer on top of social media in particular, but marketing in general. Solopreneurs fall into the trap of feeling like they have to act like a big brand. They feel like they have to be everywhere all at once, all the time on all the platforms. It's like Goodyear has a blimp and it flies it over. Well, I don't know if they do this anymore, but they fly it over stadiums and that's brand marketing. Nobody looks at a blimp and says, oh, you know what? I need tires. It's just a way of letting people know that you're there.

Yep.

Solopreneurs are building blimps and flying them over every social media platform, hoping that it's going to build enough awareness for someone to start to pay a little bit of attention. And as you were saying, like, there is no real way to draw a straight line between a brand marketing move like a social media page or social media content and a sale in most cases. And so when it comes to Like, my whole thing is I want people to build the businesses that fund— build a business that funds and fits around the ideal lifestyle that they actually want to be living. And that business should reflect who you really are, what you're really good at, and where you really belong. And that means that every point in your marketing, which is just how do I get the word out to the people that would benefit from colliding with me and the difference I can make for them. You have to make sure that all of those decisions also align with your values and your talents and, you know, where you want to be spending your time. And for anybody that feels like they have to be You know, they've been convinced by some guru or digital marketer that they have to be on social media or that they have to be on YouTube or they have to be on, on doing a podcast, writing a book. It's simply not true because you can look at examples, hundreds of examples of brands that don't do any of those things. And you could spend all day doing what whatever it is that you want to do. I was actually— I took a screenshot today of my Google Calendar because at 6:52 AM it said, uh, there are no events on your schedule because I had literally emptied my inbox. I had done all the work I had to do for the day, you know. And I don't like— I don't think about this as work. Like, I'm gonna get on a live call and jam with Jake and I'm going to learn a bunch of stuff. I'm going to turn around and put into my business. A little bit later today at 11 o'clock, I've got a call with an international mentoring group that's interested in me and my work and wants to see if there's a way that I can, you know, be of value to them. And I'm happy to do that. And then at noon, Jasper's going to get off the school bus and I'm going to take a nap. And my day is essentially done. Like, That's what's possible if you stop— like, we have to break out of the matrix that somebody else has the answers for how we can— how— what game we should want to play. Like, play your game on your terms without compromise. You can't win your game if you're playing someone else's, and you definitely can't play a game if, uh, you can't play a game that you don't want to be playing. If you don't want to be on social media, don't be on social media. If you don't want to write, don't write. If you don't want to be on video, don't do video. And your approach gives people this whole new set, a strategy that can be executed with just a few tactics and a few simple tools that will allow them to spend their entire day doing what they want to do, their working day doing what they want to do and get more of the right people into their pipeline that will become prospects, leads, and eventually great fit clients.

I want to also say that you don't need a website either. And I sell websites and I will tell you that. And I have, Scott knows this about me, because I was designing websites, I think for 18 months before I even had one of my own. Um, which is kind of, you know, seems a little unconventional to what, you know, most people, and I've done this before many times where it's like, all right, I'm going to start this business. And the first thing I do is like build out the entire presence before I've even had one single client. And like all this stuff, it's like, with, with this company, it's like, I knew better. It's like, I'm just going to go out and be useful to people. And, uh, It's like, you don't, it's interesting how we like put in our heads that we need to do certain things. It's like, you don't need to do anything really. It just do what makes sense to you and what makes sense to your journey. I also like with web, with respect to web design, I'm working with clients who feel like the website or is at a point in their process in their business where the website does become a priority in their business for whatever reason, and everybody has different reasons, but for whatever reason, you know, they're optimizing, they're in growth, and they say, you know what, there's a lot of people that are researching us right now, and we want to make sure that when they do land on the website, that it communicates our value effectively. Cool. I will, I will help you stand that up and make it, um, and design it in a way and develop it in a way where it can scale and grow with your business and does what it's supposed to do. Um, but you know, like one of the objectives with these calls that I'm going to be hosting every week is to try to break some of that, um, um, some of those beliefs where I have, I've turned down clients. I've turned down probably more clients than I've taken on where I'll get on a call with them and they haven't sold one single client. They haven't even started and they're like wanting me to build their website. And I'm like, I know where this is going to go in 6 months. Your business is going to look entirely different. Your offers, whatever it is, like so much is going to change and you've just, you've spent all this money. Cause I did that one time. I had took on a client when I was just getting started, a couple of clients actually. And it's like, ah, you know, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to take on clients if they haven't actually validated, not just like in the market, but for themselves. Like, is this even something you even want to do? You may not even want to do this. Business. So before you start spending thousands of dollars with me to build this website, you know, validate for yourself that this actually makes sense for your life. So just wanted to put that out there that, you know, I think it's important. I think it's important as service providers. This is just my personal philosophy and position on it that, you know, you have a duty. People call on you for support and they call on you for guidance. That if you ever recognize that, you know, there's a certain time and place and situation that makes sense for your service to be to where it's appropriate to make that very clear to people. Because if you don't and you do bring people on and it's not at the right time or, you know, it's not going to end well, you're going to be frustrated, your client's not going to be happy. And, and it's just not something you want tied to, to, to your track record. So. You don't need a website. You don't have to do it. It's not necessary. But if you do want one, there's steps to take to building one. And I just always appreciate your take, Scott, on like how you think about marketing. Because it's like, it's so unconventional to what you hear everywhere. And like everybody tells you like, well, if you don't, you know, like you got to have like all these tools and tactics to make it work. It's like, you really don't, you know, it really comes back down to those fundamental principles and and how you approach it in a way that works for you. So I just wanted to put that out there for somebody who actually sells the tool and sells the tactic that I agree and fully endorse that message that this is the way to go about it and it's gonna make you love your business so much more. So. Yeah.

I appreciate all that. There's two things that I wanna say as we wrap up and then I'll give you a chance to have the final word. But the first thing is all you need is enough clarity about what you do and how you serve and how you help people. I mean, you're going to— everything, this idea of clarity, we think of it as a destination, but it's a process. Like you will get clearer about your offer. By putting your offer in the world and iterating and improving it through the collision with reality and the data that you collect in the analysis and the strategizing you do based on the analysis and then what you execute next. Second thing is you have to—

you—

we look at things like automations and websites and social media and messaging conversations and all these Like these are proxies that create friction that works against the one thing that has always worked for connecting with the right clients and customers, which is conversation, connecting with, listening to, helping people feel seen, heard, and understood, and, and being, you know, generously delivering value and helping them clarify what they want to accomplish and clarify how they can accomplish that. And so, we really underestimate or undervalue the value of goodwill. We live in the digital age. Everybody can smell a funnel. From a mile away. They can sense the transaction. They know what a discovery call is, which is not, I'm going to help you. It's not a strategy call. It's a, how am I going to back you in a corner and get you to whip out your credit card and give it to me?

Yeah.

If instead, if instead of, you know, the funnel, uh, and, and which is inherently leaky, inherently complex, very ineffective, very inefficient. I mean, look at the numbers, like 1%, 2% of people that come into a funnel will exit as a client. If you think about it, as you know, we talk about in Be a Blessing Marketing, the marketing web, like where are you having the most personal, relevant, and anticipated conversations with people, and how do you get them there as quickly as possible? And then how do you, how do you earn goodwill? How do you help them whether or not they're going to buy from you or not? If you if you show up and you help out, and over time they see you're not a transactional kind of scammy, spammy digital marketer, the ripples of influence that happen, you eventually earn that reputation where you never actually have to sell anything again. This is what I love about your approach. It's like it's marketing through inception. Instead of making it all about you and what you can do for them, you are helping them take step after step after step until eventually the only thing that makes sense to them is to take that bolder step into possibility and invest in the change that you can help them make. And we really, you know, the thing I appreciate what you said about kind of a counterintuitive way of looking at things. I mean, I have, I want to confess, I've done all the things. Like I've done LinkedIn direct messaging, I've constructed funnels, I've done digital or, you know, social media content, you know, batching and scheduling. And I've done all the things. And I worked 10 hours, 10-hour days to earn a very modest living and spent very little of that time working with people I cared about. The forcing function for me was when we decided to be full-time daycare providers for our grandson, soon to be grandsons. It was like, you can't work 10 hours a day and take care of a baby. And so that's what helped me look at, like, how do I just invert this whole thing? And I would encourage everybody on the call to go through an audit of where you're spending your time in your business. How much of the time do you spend doing the work that you actually get paid for and love doing? How much of the time are you doing work that you think is going to help get you people that might become clients? And you'll find there's a pretty incredible imbalance in that that is easily fixed. And you can talk to Jake about productized marketing. You can talk to me about Be a Blessing Marketing or join communities like the one that we're in, and you will collapse time to target. The great danger of any solopreneur is they think that being a solopreneur means you have to do it all on your own. And that is, nobody does anything completely on their own. And everything is made much— you can incredibly increase ease and velocity by surrounding yourself with more of the right people, fellow travelers, mentors, guides, people that can help you close the gap with greater ease and velocity. So that's my little rough rant to end with. Final words from you, Jake.

Man, so many things to think about here. I'll lead by example and I'll just say this. If you want to connect with me, go to buildwithjake.club and there's a little form right there. You can drop your email in. I open up a Zoom room now every Friday for anybody that needs support. It's free. I'm just putting myself out there for anybody that needs support with me, with what I can do. Um, I will be focusing on the pull method as far as kind of like a center point. There's a bunch of articles there too. Feel free to read through, you know, my whole thing is to connect with what you're saying there, Scott Perry, is like conversation, like conversation. I've never seen a negative, net negative, or negative ROI or a loss from a conversation. It's always been a gain, whether it be it leads to opportunity, it leads to new perspective, it leads to whatever. It always leads to something. You always walk away with something, this conversation included. And that's what I want to do. I want to have more conversations with people and I'm optimizing my whole business around that. I want to have more conversations. I don't really care about putting out a bunch of content on social media. It's me personally, just putting that out there. So, you know, it's, it's okay. Like you can, you can do it that way and it works. And Scott's a walking example of that. I'm a walk— there's tons of examples of that. If that's the kind of game you want to play, you know, check, you know, always check your biases at the door, understand where your thoughts are coming from, why you feel the way you feel about things. And if something doesn't align, then maybe question it and put it on the table and say, why does this not align? Where does this even come from? You might be able to draw— if you actually look close and really put it under a microscope, you probably will find that the path that it came from was not actually from something that you personally— from your personal values or beliefs. It comes from somewhere else. So, yeah, conversations, have more of them, get feedback, speak to people. The nuances into those conversations are gonna be far more valuable to your business and how you're building than anything you would get from a ChatGPT question or a, you know, whatever, you know, whatever framework that's out there that teaches you. It's like, just go speak to people. I actually said that a couple weeks ago. Somebody was like, I'm really trying to figure out what's the thing that I can just turn on that just gives me results in marketing? And it all went to like, it was like always based around some tactic or tool. Like, I think I need to do more like carousels on LinkedIn. That's gonna be the thing. And he is like, what do you think? I was like, I've got a really simple answer for you. And he was like, what is that? I said, just go talk to people. Just go speak to the people that you wanna work with and have conversations and find ways that you can insert yourself into more conversations. And you'll be amazed at how, much, that can lead to growth in your life and business. It's, it's, uh, it's really that— it could really be that simple if you want it to be.

So yeah, I love that. Reminds me of our friend, uh, Laurel Portier, who I think was quoting Nick Peterson, who's— who says if you can— if you solve 100 problems for 100 people, you'll never lack for business ever.

Oh yeah, totally. So yeah, I would even— I would even say like probably 20 or 30 people even, you probably could you probably could, uh, definitely 100. Uh, it doesn't take very many for sure.

Jake, it's, uh, always a pleasure to speak with you. I really appreciate, um, you persevering through all of our technical difficulties getting this thing locked into the, uh, Substack sphere, uh, or Substackverse, I think Dr. Brie would say. Um, and, uh, yeah, well, let's circle back sometime in the future and, and talk more about how things are unfolding for you, and we'll make sure This gets posted with links to buildwithjake.club. And if you have any questions for any of us, you can drop them in the comments wherever this appears. And yeah, thanks so much. We'll talk to you again really soon.

All right. Thank you.