Justin Breen - Building Your Dream Lifestyle Through Smart Business Moves!

Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live, a show dedicated to helping seasoned solopreneurs to fund and fit their ideal lifestyle. My name is Scott Perry, the publisher of the Purpose Driven Prosperity Model on Substack and your guide in the Solopreneur Success Circle. I couldn't be more thrilled to have Justin Breen with us here today. Justin, please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Oh, um, it's a simple purpose with, uh, with many things that, uh, connecting visionaries to serve humanity. Um, so have multiple companies, uh, that do that. Uh, Deepak Chopra is doing intro for next book. It's being turned into a movie, and Gary Sinise just agreed to narrate it.

So I just like to talk to cool people and connect them and create companies out of Well, I'm wondering, Justin, um, if you can tell us a little bit about how you came to be doing what you're doing. My assertion is that most 9-year versions of ourselves did not dream or aspire to do the things that we're doing, uh, you know, as solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, and independent thinkers. So how did you arrive at what you're doing now?

Well, uh, every day's a— every day is a process. Um, my 10-year-old son, his name is Chase. When he was 9, he drew a staircase drawing where the lower half of the staircase was, uh, lessons you learned before this lifetime. Then there was a staircase to this lifetime, lessons you're learning in this lifetime. And then it was, uh, uh then lessons after this lifetime. So it is a staircase that goes up. So like, and then he and I both consider life one long, great day. So he's 10, by the way. This is what we talk about. We don't talk about, you know, whatever, whatever stuff most people talk about. We talk about this stuff. But so yesterday's before you're born, tomorrow's after you die. And so one, life is one long, great day. And then there are two ways to have a great day. One is create more living things. That could be a human, a company, foundation, plant a tree, I don't know. And then two, do what you like to do and what you're good at and keep getting better at it. So I'm— I've always been good at connecting visionaries to serve humanity, and I just keep doing that in different ways. So I've always been like this, uh, just in different ways.

Wow, that's amazing. Well, I love, um, there's a lot of my approach to not only building my own business, but helping other people do the same, is grounded in my love of ancient philosophical and spiritual traditions. And I was introduced to the Bhagavad Gita and the Tao Te Ching and Marcus Aurelius, all in the 7th grade.

Have you done your life path? Have you done your life path?

I have not done my life.

What's your birthday? Full birthday?

August 13, 1964. The last of the boomers.

The last, the very last. All right, so, all right, so 12, I'm just adding. So to do numerology, you add each individual number and then it'll— so 12, 22, 22 10, you're— so you're a life path 5. Let me just make sure. So that's 20. So yeah, so you're a life path 5. That's freedom, a lot of freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. Don't tell me what to do. Freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. Uh, I'm a life path 11, which is the most spiritual Apparently I'm in my last incarnation on this planet, thank God. Um, most psychic, uh, deeply sensitive, emotional. Uh, most Life Path 11s can't handle it. Um, they go into a life of seclusion like a monk. In a past life, I did an Akashic reading. I actually was a, a monk or an Indian yogi, if you believe that stuff. Uh, and, uh, I'm the opposite, like I'm just all in. So like, if I have to go all in and partner with people like Dr. Deepak Chopra and Gary Sinise and do all these things, and that's what I have to do.

That's really interesting. Well, I would say that, um, the, the freedom number rings true for, uh, the way I self-identify and the way most people—

there's no argument to any of this stuff. So like, people are like, oh, so the word business, by the way, comes from the word bizignis, which means anxiety. Sail means dull and dirty. So like, you know, and then Life Path 11s, Carl Jung called us wounded healers. So like, we're not here to live in material world. We're just, we're just not. We're here to really inform what's actually happening in society, which is, which is fine. But like, and then like most, that's why they can't handle it because Robert Johnson, he was a Carl Jung disciple. It's a great quote from him, but for a select few, there's a determination to seek liberation from social hypnosis, social conditioning. Um, most of the world's just conditioned by these things that, like, they don't even know what they're— they're just— it's like a Matrix type of thing. So, so to be aware of that is one thing, but then to do something with that awareness is another. So, like, my purpose here is to make people at least aware of what's actually happening, and then it's up to them whether they, whether they do something about it. But like, there's no logic then. Like, your birthday, your— these numbers add up to Life Path 5 and it means it's pure freedom, and you're like, well, of course it's pure freedom. There's no logic in any of that. So it's just, it's just how it is.

Yeah, that's really interesting. Well, I, I love that the reference to— I, I'm not very familiar with Carl Jung's work. I am a little bit familiar with Robert Johnson's work.

Really? That's interesting that you know Robert Johnson and not— that's Fascinating to me, actually.

Well, he, um, I am, I have read quite a bit of James Hollis's work, who is a Jungian analyst and talks quite a bit about kind of the second half of life, um, yeah, encore living, that sort of thing.

Have you done your Human Design? Have you done your Human Design?

No, you were, you mentioned that in our exchange, and it's one of the ones that I've been hearing a lot about recently, but I have not done my—

I only recommend it because like, uh, in Human Design, the true wisdom doesn't kick in until age 50. So you're— wait, hold on, 36 plus 25 is— so you're 11.

You're—

yeah, you're, you're 10 years old. I'm negative 2. I'm almost 50. So like, no, like, so you're 10 years old. Like, that's what it— you know, that's what it is. And then, uh, just based on percentages, I'm guessing you're either, either a generator, a manifesting generator, or a projector. That's 90, 93% of the population. I'm what's called a manifestor, which is really rare. Uh, essentially that means I can just think about it and then it happens. Manifestors aren't supposed to do a lot of work, and then they manifest things for other people, and then other people do stuff with that. So I'm just floating around and manifesting stuff.

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, most of the folks that I know that are familiar with life design have given me the hybrid, have, have plugged, pegged me as the hybrid, the manifesting generator, manifesting generator.

Well, it's just simple. Like, all you need to do with that one is, like, you know your birthday, you need to know exactly what time of day you were born, and then what city you were born in.

So yeah, well, that's, that's— I think I actually have investigated this because, uh, the place that I was born no longer exists. It was Fort Sill Army Hospital in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, which no longer is Fort Sill. And, uh, and my birth certificate doesn't have my time of birth, and my mom can't remember.

So, and the other thing is no one ever says their dad can't remember, or I have to ask my dad. Never, not one time has anyone ever said that. They always asked, oh, my mom.

Well, my, my dad, those were the days when Dad wasn't even around. Dad, Dad was out in the field and Mom was in the hospital giving birth.

And, oh, you don't need to tell me that. My dad was 61 when I was born. He'd be 109 now, so I understand. Oh wow.

Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the story goes that my father had to borrow the $20 to to get us out of the hospital after I was born. So, um, well, this is really already, uh, a conversation taking a really fascinating turn for me because I am a very big believer in the idea of, you know, the work that you do, um, is a source of and a reflection of you know, a source of meaning and identity and fulfillment, but also a source of, you know, your, your vocation, what life is, you know, I have this thing I say, life is calling to you because it wants to speak through you. And so, and you talked a little bit already about your conversations with your 10-year-old son around presence. And that's another really powerful thing for me, because, you know, and, and a very real way. All we have is right now. And you talked a little bit about awareness, um, and, and then I'm, I'm putting on top of that this idea of just like waking up. Like the first thing you have to do is wake up to all your programming and conditioning and become aware of, of that so that you can start to become the steward of your own existence and the captain of your own ship and all that sort of thing. So I'm happy to take this in any direction you want to lead us because, uh, I almost never have these conversations.

I hear refreshing and nourishing. So, so I hear that literally. Well, because most of the world's conditioned by business stuff that does— it's just a mask. I mean, it's literally anxiety. Um, that's what it is. That's what the word means. Uh, average means, uh, average damage to a ship cargo. Um, religion means to bind. It's like, that's what, that's what these words actually mean. And then world's just in a matrix of human— I mean, I understand why people have to to make money. I understand that, but it's also just building a, building a mask. So like, um, and then people like, oh my God, wow, this is, this is such a refreshing conversation. I'm like, well, yeah, because like, why wouldn't you want to talk about this? And then not every time, but most of the time, then they'll just go back to the talking about business stuff because that's what they've been conditioned to do, uh, and then, which is fine, uh, but the, the people I really hang out with who have become close, really close with me, we never talk about stuff unless it's like this. And then sometimes, not always, but sometimes it leads to creating companies like AI music companies, or just launched a retreat center with an absolute angel of a woman, uh, just launched a leadership company with another absolute angel of a woman, uh, the, uh, with one of the music companies. He's one of the top musicians in Hollywood. He's 70 years old. And then the other one is other AI music companies had multiple exits. And but I don't care about the business part of it. By the way, I think all of them are manifesting generators. I think they are, which is interesting. Yeah, because they'll— they take whatever I'm just floating around, then they'll take it and make it— they'll be the bridge or the hybrid. I think you said hybrid. They'll hybrid and make it more amenable to humans. Menable to humans. But, um, no, like, that's— it's just a byproduct of, like, conscious conversations. And then the other thing is, like, well, if you're aware of this— I've, I've made the choice, I can't go back to the business owner. I can't do it, like, because I— it's just one, it doesn't bring me any joy or any happiness. And then two, like, well, if you're aware of things like this, why would you want to go back to that? But most people do. I, I don't understand that, but Uh, it's just, that's just not where I— that's not my place in the world anymore.

Yeah, well, it reminds me a little bit of our mutual friend Nick Peterson's, one of his favorites.

Uh, yes. Yeah, that would be— actually, I wonder what his life path is. It'd be very interesting. I never asked him that. He's an 8th starting Colby.

He, um, he, he— one of the quotes that he shares over and over again is Virginia Satir, the, the juvenile, uh, psychologist: people prefer the certainty of misery to the misery of uncertainty, right?

Of course.

Yeah. And so I— yeah, I mean, that's our default programming, and, and compounded by conditioning by institutionalized, uh, education and occupation and just society in general, it, it makes it, um, difficult even when you do wake up. And I think that's the greatest, um, that's the greatest suffering of all, is when you, when you see that there's actually another way and you yet cling to—

not me—

the devil.

No more clinging. No more clinging. The, uh, the— oh, what I will say, and it's not an argument, but it's a healthy discussion, um, what I have seen now, because like the conversations I have now, um, uh, is you're from a strictly a man-woman perspective, if we're just keeping it like, you know, man-woman. So like from a woman perspective, thousands upon thousands of years of, uh, generational trauma from men who have abused them, traumatized them. So, uh, so they're conditioned to accept trauma, abuse, um, and then, uh, and so, and then like, uh, from a man's perspective— you were talking about suffering— so from a man's perspective, there's no greater suffering than genuinely, unconditionally loving a woman because you just love them, and then that's rejected or not understood because they've been conditioned to accept trauma abuse over thousands upon thousands of years. So that is where, uh, the conversations I've had, uh, not just lately but like just in general, like, that's, that's where I see the true suffering is. From a man's perspective, they're trying to fix the problem, fix the problem, you can't, and you can't do it. And then from a woman's perspective, they're genuinely confused why a man unconditionally loves them. Like, wait, what? Uh, and then for them, almost— actually, I can't think of an exception to this prior to finding a man who genuinely loves them, and then the man will just wait it out, um, uh, the woman has experienced horrific abuse by someone or many, many men, usually a karmic relationship or ex-husband or something. So that's— those are the conversations I've been having in great detail lately, and then some of them have led to companies being created, which is super interesting to me.

Well, what's the— what's as a manifester, and I know enough to know that that's a very rare category. What do you see as the, you know, what's the magic pixie dust, or what's the spiritual, or the divine energy, or what is it that— and I would love to hear if you don't mind sharing, and you don't have to get specific with the examples, but How does, how does, how do you help someone manifest something that is a purpose and passion, or just an interesting idea into a company?

Great. So thank you for asking that. I appreciate that. Thank you, by the way, means acknowledging the other person's humanity. That's a Thanks. So thank you for— so, uh, from a tactical perspective, manifestors have naturally repelling energy. Uh, so for most people, they will be absolutely repelled by this conversation, uh, not because of anything I'm saying, but because they're not ready to— they're not— they've been conditioned to never be able to even understand what this conversation means, which, by the way, is fine. So they'll just go— they'll just run the hills. By the way, totally fine. But for a select few who are, you know, seeking that liberation from social gnosis— oh wow, great conversation— uh, and then for a real select few, for a real select few who have done the inner work, they've done a ton of inner work, um, and this is an example of the retreat company, um, we just, we just started, um, and my partner for that, she's, uh a Life Path 33, which is also a master number. She's a manifesting generator, uh, angel on Earth, has experienced horrific abuse. Horrific, horrific abuse. Um, and then, um, you know, she learned from it and did a lot of self-care. And then about a week ago, I'm like, our energies, uh, we, we have to do something together. Like, we, we have to. Like, I didn't know what it would be. I just said we had to do something. And then She's like, oh, I wanted to start this retreat company. I'm like, oh, well, what's stopping you from doing that? She goes, I don't know. So I go, let's start it. So that's what— and then now she's in Mexico right now scouting locations. So that was a week ago. And then I was talking to somebody yesterday. She's like, oh, I'll be your first person to join that. And these are not inexpensive. These are very well— good investment retreats at very high-end locations. So But I didn't know what it would be. I just knew that we had to do something because I have a certain type of energy and then I can see right through most— well, if I want to, I can see right into people like very quickly, like very quickly. And then most people run away. Totally fine. But then people like this are like, oh my God, this is the greatest thing ever. And then I'm like, well, we have to do something with this. How can we not benefit society with that? So that retreat center will or these AI music companies or a leadership company, the, or the Global Mastermind that I helped start. Like, those things genuinely help society. So that's, that's, I guess, the way it's done. I'm like, well, we have to do something. What? And then they'll be like, oh, well, that's interesting you said that. I wanted to start this. I go, well, what's stopping you from doing it? The only thing that's stopping them from doing that is themselves. But then I'm like, well, you really want that to happen? And then they're like, the ones who are involved, like, no, why would you, why would you want to stop yourself from doing something? That doesn't make any sense. It's really interesting.

I love that you, um, brought in that idea of polarization because obviously it's a, it's a, you know, triggering hot topic word at this point. But there is this, you know, I had this contention that, um, or this assertion that number one, I mean, I think polarization is, um, required. Like, you can't have one thing without having it its opposite thing. Everything exists because its opposite exists. And there's a lot of, you know, the, the yin-yang and all that is, is a principle that, that is built upon that idea. But then there's just in terms of— and what I love about your articulation of the fact that some people are turned off or turned away by you, almost energy. But that's— I, I love that because I think you can you can be generously polarizing so that you are putting out energy into the world that, that earns awareness and attraction from the right people and encourages the wrong people to continue moving along. And that benefits everybody because you're not wasting time, attention, or energy on the wrong people, right? And can invest more fully in other people. So yeah, um, I love the way that what you were saying seems to really embrace, you know, that, that posture that, you know, and that's okay.

Like, well, you don't like me and that's okay. Well, okay, so, and I— thanks for saying that. And then too, this is— every Manifestor has this energy, so it's not— it's just how it is. So 7% of the population, it's, uh, and the reason why, again, like, you can take your Human Design, it's a, um, because if I gave this energy to everyone, I would self-destruct. I would die. Like, I can't. I would melt. But for a select few, the— if it's— what do you want to call it— empathy or understanding, shared experience, it's so strong for them that, like, for essentially for the partners in these companies, I've told all of them I would take a bullet for them. Like, And I would, I mean, I, I would absolutely take a bullet for them. Um, and, uh, it's that serious because like, um, uh, the purpose is so strong to help, help the world with this stuff that, um, that, uh, and then, uh, I'm a 6/2 manifestor. So a 6/2 is, uh, a role model hermit. So like role model and then leave me alone for, leave me alone for a week. I want to go into a cave, but. The 6/2 classification is called the exemplary human. So exemplary is either highest form of good or total disaster. So there's zero— it's all black or all white. There's no gray. So if it's highest form of good or total disaster, so I will go all the way to serve this purpose. Like, there's no excuses, all the way. And then most people, they won't do that. They'll live in the gray, which by the way is fine. Thank God. If the whole world was like me, it wouldn't be good. But, um, But no, that's what it— that's what it means. So I will go all the way. And then for the, for the ones who understand that, they're amazing partners, because they also will go all the way. And they've also paid the price in terms of the trauma or the really difficult experiences, or like overcoming the odds, like this incredible resilience and grit, like beyond incredible, incredible resilience or grit. So It's like an appreciation of that. So that's why I would take a bullet for them. I mean, I would.

Well, and you've brought the word purpose into the conversation a few times. And as someone who's worked that word into their brand, and it's a word that I've been engaged with and embracing and unpacking for a long time, I'd love to hear your take on when you say um, you know, purpose, purposeful businesses and people, um, living into their purpose and so forth. What, what does that mean to you?

Well, um, one of the drawings in the, the Epic Journey book, which is coming out soon, the, um, it's like a— there's like a like you come to a fork in the road, and then one path is the pain path where you're just building a mask. Mask comes from masque, which means fool. So you're building a material mask of all this stuff. Doesn't make you any happier. You think it does, but it's just a mask. And then, uh, then there's the purpose path where you just follow what you're— what you're here on Earth for, um, while you're here on Earth. So apparently I signed up for this, for this lifetime, that I'm just here to do my purpose, which is connecting people and, you know, connecting visionaries that help the planet and then creating companies out of that. So essentially, none of these companies were ever started. They weren't started at all. They weren't even going to be companies. They were just things that, um, that I like doing. Um, and then companies were byproducts of that. Um, or just people I wanted to hang out with, um, at a very high level. So I think that's what kind of following your purpose is like for me, connecting visionaries to serve humanity. It was just, I just like to talk to cool people and connect them. And then some of them, you you do things with, you create companies with them. So I think that's just kind of following it. And then if it's helpful doubling down, I just follow my heart. Don't do a lot of thinking. Most of the world overthinks everything, perfectionism. By the way, that's totally fine. You do need perfectionism with like contracts and finances and all that stuff, which is great. I just don't— I just don't— I don't operate like that. I just follow my heart. And if something feels right, then I just say it. If intuition feels right, then I just— I just do it, or find someone who will do it with me. And that's byproduct of following purpose, following heart.

Yeah, I love that. Well, what I'm hearing is it has Although it may be reflected in what you do, it sounds like it's much more of the way that you show up in the world and the way that you engage with the things that— one of the things that I have shared with people in my world that are really struggling with purpose and unable to discern, define, find is, um, why don't you just start by, by engaging in the relationships and the activities that you're already engaged in with purpose, because purpose begets more purpose. And it's an emergent quality. It's not necessarily a destination on the map or this thing that you have to excavate.

So there's no destination. None. There's no end destination. You just keep going.

Yeah, I love that. You also, you reflected a little bit, something that I would love to get more of your take on around, you know, as the kind of person that may, may be wired to give and give and give until you give out. That you, you need to, you need to have like some, like it sounds like you've, you've devised and constructed some boundaries or guardrails or some terms of service for yourself or however you want to define it. So I'm just, I'd love to hear that piece because I think especially for this audience, mostly solopreneurs, mostly caving into the human default programming.

That's because they're solopreneurs. They're their own problem. If they're solopreneurs, they're their own— well, they're their own problem. They're their own problem. Solopreneurs are their own problem. They— because they're not, they're not asking for— if they partnered with people, they would have far less problems, but they're putting everything on themselves by being solopreneurs. They're actually, they're actually limiting themselves from their own purpose. By doing that. Yeah.

So what are, what are the boundaries and guardrails that you have for yourself as you're thinking about relationships that might lead to the companies that you're starting or to other kinds of projects or relationships?

So, okay, great question. That's a great question. So I have found that there are 4 things that separate true visionaries from, uh, true visionaries serving humanity from, um, like, that are truly global, um, they're not playing it small, they're not playing not to lose, they're like all in, they're going for it. There are only 4 things, okay, that I've seen. 1, bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy. 2, depression. 3, highest level of anxiety you can imagine. 4, trauma as a child or are young adults. So since COVID not counting Silver Spoons— I know a lot of Silver Spoons— but not counting Silver Spoons, I think I've talked to 8 or 9 folks that are less than 3 of those 4 things. Almost everyone I talk to now is all 4. Uh, and then they're not their own problem. They don't, they don't stay small. They, they collaborate with people. They want to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. That's why I said I genuinely believe solopreneurs are there for playing at the highest level. They're their own problem. Like you can't play at a global level. Is it— I mean, you, you have to collaborate with other visionaries. Like, that's just what it— that's just what it is. But, um, so what happens is having these conversations, um, and then again, there's— all my friends are like this, my true friends. And then some of them, we start companies together. So I guess it's kind of a litmus test, um, like the people I'm talking to, the The, the goal isn't to start a company with them. It's just I just like talking to them. And then they also play to win. They play to win at a full level. And then they've turned that horrific trauma or shared experiences into something truly great that benefits humanity. And they're not their own limiters. There's no— they have no limits. They're playing fully to win because that's really the only way to help humanity at the highest levels. Going all in with something, not limiting yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'd love to circle back to the, the, the solopreneur dilemma, something I wrote about in my last book.

And the dilemma is they're their own. If they're, if they're going to stay like that, which is, by the way, that's fine. I totally understand that. My first company, I was a solopreneur for sure. I was— I mean, I still technically had that company, so I totally understand that. But there's a certain level that you can, if you know, and it doesn't matter, I don't care what revenue is or whatever, but there's a certain amount of impact you can have with that. You can't because you're not collaborating with— you're not building something with other visionaries. That's just common sense.

Well, it's really— it's at the heart of my work because my initial career was as a performing musician. I was a professional musician for over 30 years. And I did it as a solo artist for probably a good 15 years before. And my story, my narrative was, oh, Scott doesn't play well with others. He's got to do his own thing. And then it's lonely and it's, of course, self-destructive. It leads to a lot of self-destruction.

So why would you want to stay? Like, you already know the problem.

Exactly. So when I transitioned into doing things more collaborative, more collaborations, I realized, oh, I actually— I was able to dismantle my false narrative.

But I actually—

I do play well with others. I'm actually kind of a natural.

When did that happen? Was that after turning 50? Right about now?

It was probably in my— probably shortly before, like in my— in my 40s, probably mid-40s. But okay, 50, 50 to 60 were probably or 45 to 55 were, which is the last 10 years or so of my career, were the greatest years in terms of fulfillment and success. And one of, you know, that has really informed and inspired the work that I'm doing with trying to build communities of solopreneurs for collaborations, for partnerships, for to get them to stop being solopreneurs. Yeah, well, and so it's, yeah, these, these, these words are so fraught. And I'm leaning towards, I'd like, because there's this, you mentioned, you know, they play to win. And I love the, the idea of playing your game, like you should be living a life where you are able to, you know, Be who you really are and do what you're really good at and be where you really belong, which is with people who share your values and need your talents to enhance their lives. And at the same time, that game is a lot more fun, fulfilling, and easier if you are thinking more collectively, collaboratively, and, and, you know, with, with greater connection. And so at what point do you do you let go of, um, you know, this whole— maybe it's a delusion of solopreneurship, right, as opposed to the dream. Um, so I—

yeah, it's another example of societal conditioning. That's all it is.

Yeah, well, it's kind of like the whole idea, you know, people talk, talk about how they're a lone wolf, and it's like, well, lone wolves die because wolves are pack animals and they need each other to thrive and survive in the world.

The answer's already there. So, but, um, what I've, what I've learned, the main thing I've learned— well, there are two main things I've learned in the last year. One is unconditional love, and then two, as a byproduct of that, you can't fix people. I'm not here to fix anyone unless someone wants to do the work on themselves. There's nothing I can do. I guess that does answer your earlier question. Like, actually, it definitely does. Like, I'm Why would I partner with someone who doesn't want to, hasn't worked on themselves or understands that they're the problem? Like, that would make— that's illogical. Yeah, can't do anything with that. You can't. So, but I had to learn that. I'm still learning that. But yeah, that's— and then unconditionally loving someone regardless of romantic partnership or not means like you don't, you don't try to fix them. You just love them regardless. But it doesn't mean you partner with them in a company. I don't think.

Yeah. Well, I love that, that insight and could not agree more. And I think that's another one of the traps solopreneurs fall into.

I mean, it's an endless— it's like, it's— hey, again, I was a solopreneur for a long, like, a long time because I didn't— I mean, I didn't even know what this world was until 2017. So that wasn't that long ago. Go. Um, and then, you know, most of these companies have been launched in the last couple months, so it's like an— it's an evolution. And then to your point, mid-40s— I'm 48, or almost 48— so 45 to 55, it'll be really interesting to see what happens. But like, these are things that have to be learned. Um, so I think it's great that you're— that you've built a community like that because it's, um, it's, uh, it's uh, really helping with the loneliness. And then hopefully, uh, although I'm not worried about it, but like some of them will realize to stop doing this, like they, they— that they're the problem, like they are the problem. So until they fix that— Carl Jung wrote about like, um, like people, like they get to the inner core themselves but they're afraid to really look into themselves. So like, I've done that. I've looked at my— like, I know I've been the problem. Like, I've been the problem. I'm not blaming anyone else. I'm the problem. So until you realize that, then, uh, well, I think selfish, but no, like, you have to work on yourself first.

Well, I think it's all— the, the Delphic, uh, maxim, know thyself, is something that I've been living by for a long time, you know, that taking a long look in the mirror and having honest conversations with myself. And it's the foundation. The very first thing I published on Substack, although I've been writing for a long time before that, was Start with Who, which is just circling back to that idea. You can't possibly— and to your point earlier, I think empathy is also really important. And the effort of empathy is what is the bridge to the action of compassion. And the effort of empathy is somewhat exhausting, but the action of passion— of compassion is, is energizing. And but you can't— in order to make that leap and to actually show up fully for the people that you want to help, then you, you have to be able to practice these things on yourself first.

Passion for yourself. Have to.

Yeah. If you can't practice empathy— if when I, when I talk to people and they start telling me how empathetic they are, and I ask them about the conversation in their head, and they start talking about imposter syndrome and self-doubt and self-criticism and hate, it's like, well, you know, how, how can, how can we— you know, we have to fix— not fix, to your point, you can't fix it, but, you know, we have to address this first.. And it's, I think, again, not— it's not a destination. No, we're all born sufficient and whole and possessing everything we need to succeed and thrive in this world. And at the same time, I love what you said about intuition and instinct, because so much of what I've seen in my journey has been returning to the kid that always knew exactly what I was going to do and what I— or, you know, and— or didn't even have to understand. I just did things. And I enjoyed them and I loved them and I excelled at some of them and I failed at others. But I never, I never felt judgmental about myself because of my inability to do or not do anything. It was just, um, life is a game, it's meant to be played. Player, you know, play your game means play the game, go, go all in.

And again, from a tactical, like, I will risk it all. I would never bankrupt, um, my wife and children. But to do this, I would— I mean, bankrupting yourself, like, but most people I talk to have been bankrupt. Almost everyone I've talked to has been bankrupt or potentially bankrupt. So like, that's just part of the— at a certain level, that's just part of the game. We were on, um, my wife and I last year, we were on Necker Island, uh, where Sir Richard Branson lives. So we spent a week with him, uh, great guy. And, uh, I mean, I was asking him like, how are you not dead. He almost died in front of, in front of me in a bicycle accident. Like, how's this guy not dead? And he goes, oh, he's always had a North Star protecting him. Like, well, that makes, that makes sense. And like, like, these things that, that these gifts are like, we're all given gifts from a higher power. And then it's like, well, talking about your purpose question earlier, it's like, well, I look at them as gifts. And so like, from a higher power, I'm like, oh, the Higher power gave me all these gifts, so at least one or two, I'm like, well, I know what they are, I might as well use them. Um, but it's being aware of what those gifts are, and then I don't take any credit for this. Like, I mean, I can barely tie my shoes. Things a child can do, a monkey can do, I can't do them. But like, I was given these gifts, so I might as well use them to the full extent, um, full extent of my ability. All in.

Just out of curiosity, is Necro Island where you met our— the woman that introduced us, Jennifer Kay Hill, was she there at the same time?

That's interesting. Um, great, great. Um, um, if you've done Colby, by the way, she's a 10 Quick Start. Uh, Nick Peterson's an 8 Quick Start. I'm a 9. 10 is the highest. Uh, that means not afraid of anything really. Uh, a 10 Quick Start is one out of— I'll answer your question, but a 10 Quick Start is one out of 200 humans. In my world, it's like one out of 8 or 9. Most people I talk to are 9 starts. Nick's in '08. Um, but, um, I don't even know who introduced us. Jen is, uh, technically— well, she is, she's one of the partners in the, in the mastermind I helped start. Now she's our chief connections officer, so very grateful for that because she's probably the best connector I've ever met. But she and I actually met in person at a, uh, a Deepak Chopra event, uh, in at Harvard, uh, Sages and Scientists. That's the only time I think we've met in person. And then most of the— I would say most of my greatest friends, I've never met them in person, or maybe one time. Started— let's see, I've started two companies with people I've never met in person, ever.

Wow. That's really, really fascinating. Yeah. Well, as we're wrapping up our time together, Justin, I would, you know, again, as I I'm going to invite you to speak more on this, but you can do whatever you want to do with this. But for those, you know, the audience that tunes into the show in general are what I call seasoned solopreneurs. They're people that have had businesses for a while. They are facing all of the challenges.

Seasoned in loneliness, trauma, misunderstanding. That's not good seasoning. That is exactly, exactly that. Jeez.

So if, if you're going to invite them to take one step into possibility and, and, and heal thyself, um, what, what would you suggest? Uh, what, what would you suggest? Or, and it can be an exercise, a principle, uh, a quote, whatever you, whatever you have. And if, if there's a final, a different parting, um, exercise or idea that you'd like to share, then feel free to, to ignore my, my question and go in whatever direction you want.

Um, it's not funny. Like, you can only laugh because, like, I mean, that sounds horrific. I mean, ayayay, and I, I lived it. Um, um, seasoned. Oh man, seasoned. Oof. I'm just thinking about that because like, um, let me, let me try to be a human for a minute. Um, you know, you talked about life being a game and having fun with it. Um, and why not just why not just go for it? Like, like, like, why would you want to continue to be suffering like that? I don't, I don't know the answer to that question. But why would you want to? Why would you want to keep doing that? Like, do you really want to keep doing that? Do you really want to suffer like this? Because it's not being in that environment that you're going to continue to— that's not going to change. Like, it's, it's not going to change. So I guess that's what I would say to them.

Yeah. Oh, I think that's actually excellent advice. I think, uh, E.E. Cummings, uh, in one of his prefaces to one of his books of poetry has a quote about the more beautiful question. And, uh, I think why is one of the most beautiful questions of all, especially if you ask it several times in a row and you can't come up with a good answer, or the answers get increasingly bad over time. It's probably, um, worth doing a little course correction and, and re-envisioning where you're heading.

Well, the other thing, and, uh, I guess this also, like, Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl, that's my favorite book. Favorite's the wrong word, but I would, you know, That to me, that's like the greatest book ever written because it's not even a book, but like that's where you find the meaning is in the suffering. Like, so Seasoned Solopreneur, that's a lot of suffering, but there's a lot of meaning to be found in that. And again, like all of these companies and things that are, you know, writing a— you know, I didn't think I'd be writing a book where Dr. Deepak Chopra is doing the intro. 'Oh, and Gary Sinise is going to be narrating a movie that the—' I didn't think that, but it was all, it was all from essentially suffering and evolved consciousness that it led to that. So like, I had to learn that. And then horrific, like what I've experienced, and I'm very grateful for it, but I wouldn't wish that upon anyone unless they could, unless they were prepared or signed up in this lifetime for it. But apparently I, I don't know why I did, but I, I did. I signed up for this. So, uh, you might as well take that intense suffering and turn it into something, or you can keep suffering. So I mean, it's, uh, I, I guess that's the only— that's the, the choice. Like, you want to keep suffering, or do you want to take that suffering and turn it into something meaningful? I, I choose the latter on that one. To me, that seems like a good idea. Would you agree with that?

It seems like a good idea. Well, as, as a, again, a book I was introduced to in middle school was Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. In middle school?

Wow. That's a good, that's a good— I had great teachers.

That's my, my 7th and 8th grade teachers changed my life.

That's a great— well, let me, if it's just real quick. So my father was 61 when I was born. He was a World War II hero. He was EB-109 now, and he was shot down multiple times in combat, many times without a parachute, and he would just get back into a plane. And then he died when I was in 8th grade. And then he was an attorney in Nazi war crime Nuremberg trials. So like, probably, probably met Viktor Frankl, I would guess. I mean, some could— I wouldn't be surprised. But and then after he died, I found his war diary from the Battle of the Hurkan Forest, which is one of the deadliest battles in World War II. He was like one of the few people who survived it out of his unit. And then I followed that diary to France. He drew a map in it and I just intuitively followed it to France last year. And that's what then apparently found the meaning of life, which the Deepak editing team agrees with that because they added that to the book. But so that's what really what the book's about. And then so like that's the greatest teacher, I mean, so that to have that as my dad, that's pretty— I'm very grateful for that. But, um, uh, you know, part of that is having a dad who dies when you're 14 and in 8th grade, but still the greatest teacher for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's a powerful story.

I really appreciate that. Well, we want to thank everyone for tuning into the show. We appreciate the gift of your time and attention. And, uh, we hope that you will take something that you gleaned from this conversation and, uh, and apply it, take intentional action and make meaningful progress for the better in your endeavors. Lovers. If you are listening wherever you are on social media or YouTube, feel free to drop a comment or a question. If you're listening as a podcast, please give us a 5-star rating and review. It really helps more of the right people collide with these conversations. Justin, it has been an actual— an absolute pleasure and privilege to have this conversation with you today, and thank you very much for sharing your time and wisdom with us today.

Really appreciate it. Great questions. Thank you so much. You're very welcome.

All right. How do I stop the share?

That I don't know.