Meet the Difference Makers - Brenda Ammon

Connect. So what's amazing about this new, uh, StreamYard thing is we are actually appearing in 3 different locations simultaneously. We are actually here on LinkedIn, on my LinkedIn profile, on my Facebook page, and on my YouTube channel. We're in 4 places at once, Brenda. I wish we had this when we were raising kids. We could have been superstars.

That's what the eyeballs in the back of my head— now you have them accessible in front of you. I love that.

Exactly. All right, here we go. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live, everyone. To learn more about Creative on Purpose, please visit creativeonpurpose.com and get going with the difference only you can make. Remember that this broadcast is also an iTunes podcast. Check it out and leave a 5-star review. 30 seconds of your generosity helps spread the goodness delivered by my guests. Let's get to today's show. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher and endeavors that make a difference. Do the work you're meant to do now. It's time to be creative on purpose. Are you ready? Let's go. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward and Difference Maker Coach at Creative on Purpose. Visit creativeonpurpose.com to start stepping into possibility with the difference only you can make. This month we're profiling members of the Difference Maker community at Creative on Purpose. Let's meet today's guest, Brenda Ammon. Welcome to today's broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can they go to learn more about you and the difference that you're making?

Hey, thank you, Scott Perry. First of all, I just want to say I'm grateful to be here today. Thank you for your time and attention, the audiences. It's been a rewarding experience. Being a difference maker in your community and having you coach in Uncover Possibilities. So thanks for that. I am a coach and catalyst for entrepreneurs. I work with founders that want to uncover things that they never even knew possible, remove blocks, uh, get clarity, and amplify the impact they want— they really want to make. Um, right now You can reach me at LinkedIn. And also tomorrow my new website will be live, BrendaAmmon.com. Um, I've just been invited to partner with, um, a co-acquaintance that we know, Scott Perry Tatiani, and she runs the Wisdom Women of Wisdom group. She is on a mission and invited me into the journey to inspire a million women entrepreneurs. And she has had over 5,000 women join her group this year. So I am just very honored to be a part of that. One of the things that I will be doing in January will be facilitating C-suite conversations about what holds founders back and what gets in the way of really creating and amplifying the impact that we want. So I'm really looking forward to that. Happy to be here today.

Awesome. Well, you have been— you and I have been associated for the last year working on developing, uh, this difference that you're making. So thrilled that you're going to be partnering with Purvi. She is a real dynamo and a force in the entrepreneurial space and making a humongous difference with, uh, women entrepreneurs. So grateful that you guys have connected and are going to be working together. Um, I would love for you to share a little more specifically what's the problem that you're solving through your work or the transformation on offer with people that collide with you and the great work that you're doing.

I think what I have on offer is to come along as a thinking partner. There's a gentleman, his name is Jason Korman, and he is CEO and founder of Gaping Void. And the way he puts it, that he's discovered through his research and all his experiences, is there's a scarcity of self-awareness and objectivity. Even though we think we really are, it just is so helpful to have a thinking partner come alongside and say, hey, what about this? What about this? And it gives you a perspective that you really can't have on your own. So that's why I coach. I've seen phenomenal results. I think that sometimes when we're trying— when this is what I see, we want to make that home run, we want to make everything work. And the reality is that 9 out of 10 founders fail. And so what my coaching does is make a difference there. It allows you to step back and say, okay, what is it that I really want to create? What is the impact that I'm really making? And how can I step back and and do something a little bit different than other people are doing. And see, try out, see what the impact has. And it just really opens up possibilities that people have never— I mean, things are changing very quickly. And to be agile and strong and a great leader, you need to bring out some of those things that maybe you haven't needed before, where you could just push through. Now you have to maybe have a little more empathy and a little more, hey, how can I be different?

It's a theme that's come up frequently in these conversations. Somebody like you is such an expert at sitting with someone, witnessing their experiencing, their experience, empathetically engaging and listening and helping them unpack their experience. And then with laser-like precision, being able to help them identify the, the thing that's in there, the thing that's really in their way, usually something that they have put right in front of themselves. And at the same time, people like you and I who do this kind of work, we need somebody else to do that exact same thing for us. What do you think is, what do you think is at the, the root of, you know, why somebody like you or I who gets paid and who loves doing this work with other people to help them become more self-aware and to offer perspective and objectivity. Why are we so lousy at doing that for ourselves?

That's a great question. Um, I think what we bump up against is we want to be happy, we want to be fulfilled, and we think we know the answers. And society has taught us a whole bunch of things. This is the way you fit in the status quo. This is how you're a leader. This is how you can make things happen. But really, when you find out, if you really switch over and decide, I'm going to have success and be happy alongside that, there's just a different way of being that, that softens your perspective and makes you a better listener and a better able to connect with people. And it— why, why is that difficult? I think we, we have a facade that we've decided at a young age that we kind of just say, okay, this is who I am and this is what the world is going to see. And in order— it's kind of like a muscle. I feel like when you work with coaches, in order to build muscle, you really have to break something first. And the more willing you are to be transparent and maybe say, okay, well, I've tried this a long time in many different fashions and it's still not working. And to be curious about and compassionate with yourself, what might work differently? It really saves a lot of time.

That's really brilliant. I just want to highlight a couple things that you said that I think, uh, are really worth paying attention to. The first is this idea that As human beings, we are creatures that often seek and embrace the status quo. We like to know where we stand. We like to know what's expected. And even when our status might be on the low side, at least we know where we stand, what's expected. We'll cling to that and not seek to break through and to strive towards our aspirations. At the same time, we do, we are aspirational creatures, and we do want to do more and do better and to cultivate our talents and our inner excellence. And that we're also narrative creatures. And you talked about the facade that, you know, the story we just, we start telling ourselves that we start to just, that becomes a a confirmation bias. We just keep confirming the same old story. So one of the things that I posted on both Facebook and LinkedIn recently was, choose your story, choose your future. And it really is often that simple. It's just unfortunate that simple is never easy, which is why it's so important to work with someone, to have a coach, to have a teacher, to have a mentor, to have a circle of contacts that will help you step into possibility in terms of your own potential, but also in the difference that only you can make. So I just, I thought that was especially brilliant that you touched on that. So I wanted to highlight it. I'm also curious because I find that it really helps viewers that are engaged in a similar journey where they are trying to enhance their own lives by serving through work that serves others, through work that enhances the lives of others. That by definition, that kind of work is fraught. There will be challenges, there will be misfortune, there will be obstacles, there will be difficulties. What are the challenges that you most frequently experience in trying to make the difference that you make through your coaching?

Hmm. I think the challenge is, again, back to, well, one, Jason Korman. I love what he says. Again, he says it's not that we're It's not that human beings are stupid, it's just that life is really difficult. So in facing these challenges, you have to have compassion for yourself. And that's something I've really had to learn along the way. Um, other challenges? No, I just feel like from a very young age you learn and you're defined by such a slim, narrow, um, way that you have to show up a certain way to get these accolades and then say, I've accomplished this. And you end up living in this ideal version of yourself. And the thing about an ideal, we don't even really think about, it's made up. And so one, it's made up. And then when you do have success, you move the line of what the ideal version of you needs to be next. Yeah. What happens is you never celebrate the small wins that you have. And while the small wins might not seem like a big deal and you really wanna hit that home run, if you don't get happy and content with celebrating the small wins, in, in enjoying success, you don't find fulfillment.

Yeah, well, I love that last point about in our, in our striving, we also have to remember that we are simultaneously sufficient. Like, every— we are okay as we are. Everything really is okay the way it is. And yet people like us do things like this. We strive. We embrace the struggle, and we do so with a determined smile. And it's possible to experience happiness, joy, equanimity, whatever you want to call it, as you're doing the difficult work of improving yourself through endeavors that seek to elevate the lives of others. I love that. I love that point. Thank you. All of us, again, that do this kind of work, that aspire to become better by doing better, we make mistakes. And often those mistakes, you know, provide us with learning opportunities and other kinds of lessons. I'm just curious about if you're willing to share Doesn't have to be a humongous mistake, but a significant mistake that you've made along the way that served as a real aha moment or provided a real important lesson or takeaway that you were able to use to fuel forward progress in your endeavor going forward.

I think a mistake that I really see that I made was staying small. I think I, for whatever reason, I wanted to fit in the status quo and not be exposed to, um, someone saying you might not know what you, you know, you might not be able to create the difference that you want to make. And to me, that's so tragic because there are so many people out there that are so eager to learn And the one thing that I realized is when you stop playing small, you start to begin very, to feel very generous from the inside out. And that generosity opens doors and possibilities that you never believed possible. So instead of behind, hiding behind the masquerade of who I think I have to be and what I have to accomplish, generosity is like a power, a superpower.

Yeah, I agree. We talk a lot in our community about the power of gratitude and generosity. It's impossible, you know, when we're talking about challenges and mistakes and striving and trying to and being on this journey of improving ourselves by improving the lives of others. Um, we're, we're talking about living with a lot of anxiety and however you want to define that, your imposter syndrome, your resistance, your echo chamber, whatever it is. There's a lot of fear involved. And we all have to contend with the inner critic and everything that comes with facing uncertainty and navigating adversity. And at the same time, if we are grateful that this is the work that we get to do, and remember that it's not the work we have to do, we could just as easily go back to being a cog in the system and get ourselves a cubicle job or a any, any old kind of job and just, you know, get by by making a living. But if we do, and many of us are doing something like that because we have responsibilities and obligations, but then there's this other work that we get to do if we choose it, the side hustle, the vocation, uh, the second act career, whatever it is. And if you live in that place of gratitude, then you find you can't be anxious and grateful at the same time. And gratitude is a real cure-all for all of us that are doing this kind of work. So love that you highlighted that. Also, while you were speaking, the idea of, you know, so gratitude, a gratitude habit might be one, but I'm wondering about other rituals, routines, and maybe relationships too that, you know, really help fuel your forward progress and help you stay the course, stay on track and stepping into possibility with the difference that you, you make?

I can think of two that jump right out at me, Scott, and ones that, as I work with clients, I really see makes a difference in their impact. One is Rule #6 that comes from the book, The Art of Possibility by, by Ben and Roz Sander, which is don't take yourself so damn seriously. And the other rule, there is no other rule. I just love that. And the other part is really, um, being a great listener, because if you can combine those two things, um, amazing things, well, they just get uncovered that you never thought possible.. And I can tell a couple of different stories with one client I didn't work with and one client I do. And I mean, we're talking about the cost of depending on where you are in your startup, the stage you are in your startup, it can really make or break your deal. I mean, you might have millions of dollars that you've already been given you as seed money and possibly Series A money to make your business happen. But if you're not willing to be open to those connections. Let's say somebody frustrated you, somebody seems difficult to work at. If you can take another angle, that can totally change the direction and compounding effect of the business that you have in front of you. And just these little shifts can really, really make a difference.

Yeah, that was in one of your earlier responses. I was— another Xander quote came to mind, which is, it's all made up, you know, which speaks to the idea that we were talking about, about our inner narrative and storytelling and the extent of our abilities or, or potential. Yeah, really, it's a— The Art of Possibility is a great book and worth everybody picking up a copy of and checking out. Well, I also would love to— one of the relationships that you have is with Difference Maker Coaching and the Difference Maker Coaching community. And so I'm just wondering if you would be willing to share any insights or any experience with how that particular community and coaching has helped you with making the difference that only you can make?

Well, being a part of the community is just an incredible opportunity to see others as mirrors for yourself. And you tap the wisdom of the room, which it's almost like you're standing on the shoulders of giants. It's not just your wisdom. You are having a whole group-wide wisdom of what is possible. So, it has a compounding effect. Yeah, and the coaching that you provide, Scott Perry, I mean, I like to chuckle, you know, sometimes we are our own worst enemies. And like you say, there are blind spots and we don't see what is right in front of us, that if we just build our muscle and make a little shift, Things really end up amplifying. Yeah.

Well, I love that you mentioned compound effect because that's something that I very intentionally wanted to build into my offering, which is, you know, I, as a coach in Akimba Workshops and as a Difference Maker coach at Creative on Purpose, I know that I can help make change happen in a one-on-one. But creating that community and having coaching clients go into that community provided, provides this additional safe, brave place where you can, exactly as you articulated, tap the wisdom of the room and get additional perspective, additional insight, additional reflections, additional feedback that will help you see what you haven't been able to see, even if it's something you put right in front of yourself. And we meet a couple times a week. And I can't think of a single meetup where we have— I have not witnessed multiple light bulbs going on, going off for the people that are participating in that community. And so would really love to just right now, thank you for not just your participation, but the huge contribution that you make to the Difference Maker community. It matters and it makes a difference. Thank you. So, thank you.

I, you know, I, that makes me think about one story I'd love to throw in here, Scott.

Sure.

Coaching, while we think about it for, excuse me, golf or basketball, we don't think about it for our professional business as much. And I heard an incredible story. Tim Ferriss was on his podcast with the CEO of Shopify. Shopify, I think, has tripled since the beginning of the year. And one of the things that they, um, signal to their success is actually hiring coaches. They actually have coaches in staff now, and it has just powered them forward through things that may have held them back as far as leadership and just designed a business that they can go out and help otherpreneurs do, entrepreneurs do. And it's just I mean, I just thought it was a great feather in the cap to say, hey, this works. Let's try it. Let's see how it can make a difference.

Yeah. Even for myself, it took me, I didn't, I don't think I had my first Coach until I was in my late 40s. Other than athletic coaches when I was, you know, in high school and college. And once I had my first coach, you know, my first coach and witnessed like the exponential progress that I made, I couldn't believe that it had taken me 48 years, whatever it was, to remember really the power of coaching. Because of course, I experienced it as a high school and college athlete. And of course, Every high performer seeks and gets assistance from somebody that is dedicated to helping provide training and insight and reflection and accountability to someone that, that is trying to further themselves. It's the only way that you can really make true progress. This do-it-yourself culture that we live in, you know, people think that, well, I'll just get it all for free on the internet. Well, All of it isn't on the internet, but you, but if you're not invested in your own success, then there's no possible way that you can have the willpower and the will to really step into your potential. So couldn't agree with, um, that what, what you shared in that story more. Um, as we're winding down our time here together, uh, as a successful Difference Maker, if there is one tip, piece of advice, something that you could share that would help people that aspire to advance in the difference that only they can make, to do so with greater speed, agility, or impact? What would that be?

I think something comes to mind, maybe a two-part. It can be kind of a sensitive situation, but we're all grown to like, okay, we have this knowledge and then we have to be right with our knowledge. If just for, just try it in one conversation today. If you were to step back and say, I don't have to be right in this conversation. I don't have to be the expert. And just to step back and to listen to the person on the other side. And then even then, when you want to lean in, still take another step back and still keep listening. It's amazing when you give up being right, it solves so many problems. Problems.

I love that insight. It is something that I've seen over and over again in, in the Akimbo workshops, uh, and in working with my own clients. The thing that most often gets in people's way is certainty that they already know everything they need to know, um, and they already know exactly where they should be heading. And when we are more, when we are more curious and a little less certain, a little more considerate and a little less judgmental, we open the door to possibilities that we never could have imagined. It reminds me a little bit of Natalie Nixon, who wrote The Creativity Leap and has been a guest on this broadcast. Her idea of toggling between wonder and rigor. The idea that, you know, we need to— you said something about this earlier— the idea, like, we have, we have to have our big dreams, but we also need to remember that they're achieved through small steps. And so you can have your big dreams, but keep your dreams big, keep your goals small, and do something to step into that every single day, and progress will be made.

So to that, Scott Perry, that I just wanted to share about giving up being right is that in order to do that, you have to take 100% responsibility for who you are. I mean, in everything. And so those two things together really change a lot of things.

Absolutely. I love that. Well, with that, we'll close on that brilliant insight. We want to thank everyone for tuning in. Brenda and I really appreciate you lending us some of your valuable time and attention. We hope today's broadcast motivates you to lean into endeavors that matter with greater curiosity and courage. Learn more about Brenda at brendaammon.com or find her on LinkedIn. And of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com. Now go out and make a difference and keep flying higher. Brenda Ammon, thank you so much for your time and for all the wisdom that you shared with us today.

Thanks, Scott Perry. Happy to be here.