Meet the Difference-Makers - Tania Marien

Looks like we are live. Oh my goodness, it works. Technology works just in time. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live, everyone. To learn more about Creative on Purpose, visit creativeonpurpose.com and get going with the difference only you can make. Remember that this broadcast is also an iTunes podcast. Check it out and leave a 5-star review. 30 seconds of your generosity helps spread the goodness delivered by my guests. Now let's get to today's show. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live. These conversations are about flying higher in endeavors that make a difference. Do the work you're meant to do now. It's time to be creative on purpose. Are you ready? Let's go. I'm your host, Scott Perry, author of Onward and Difference Maker Coach at Creative on Purpose. Visit creativeonpurpose.com to start stepping into possibility with the difference only you can make. This month we're profiling members of the Difference Maker community at Creative on Purpose. Let's meet today's guest. Tanya Marion, welcome to the broadcast. Please tell our viewers who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can we connect with you to learn more?

Well, thank you. Thank you, Scott Perry, for inviting me to participate today. My name is Tanya Marion. I am an independent environmental education professional who is investigating how independent professionals work in the field. That, and I'm investigating who they are, what they do, and how they work with their communities. And you can learn more about this project at talatera.com.

So what is the, the primary thing that you're working on at Talatera these days? What's the difference that you're making?

I— my investigation into how independent professionals work in their field is motivated by two 2 things. One is to demonstrate that these community educators and these independent educators make good community partners. And so what I'd like to do, to do there, the ultimate goal here that I'm striving for is to establish new relationships, to facilitate relationship building between these independents and others in the communities, whether it be museum, a nature center, a municipality, or someone else who wants to work with the community partner and in within their specialty. And the ultimate goal here is to develop relationships and to make freelance environmental education a sustainable career choice.

I'm guessing, therefore, that it is not usually thought of as a sustainable career choice.

It true. It has its challenges, just like any freelance. Option anyone takes.

Yeah, yeah, sounds a lot like being a guitar player, just, just saying. Um, so what's, what's the biggest problem that you're solving, or what's the transformation that's on offer when people engage with you in your Talatera, uh, community?

The transformation is, is making people— is helping to make people more more visible and to help them tell their stories, to help them present themselves. And again, it's relationship building is the ultimate, is one of the big goals here of what I'm doing. And so, you know, the independent educators, they do not have a building with their name on them, on it, you know, they're not in the phone book per se, you know, that anybody uses the phone book. But, um, and so their, the work that they do really, you know, is below the radar. And so by, uh, have hosting conversations with these professionals on my podcast and engaging with them in the Trailhead community, the open forum in my Hope is that, uh, they— these individuals will work with each other, will form community with each other, but will also then be more visible to people who would like to work with them.

So it sounds like connection, uh, and a sense of belonging is, is a real challenge that people that are coming to you are seeking to, to resolve. Um, and so Give us a little sense of what it looks like inside Talaterra.

Inside, let's see, inside the Trailhead community. In the Trailhead. Okay. In the Trailhead, I have, uh, well, it's an open community. And so, so there are people from a variety of fields. Uh, freelance environmental education is a lot of different things and it looks like a lot of different things. And so it can look like an after-school program, it can look like nature journaling, it can look like permaculture and food systems education, it can look like creating bilingual learning environments. And so the people that you would— will find in this new community, it represent many different aspects of the field. And one of the Things that becomes clear is that, you know, environmental education is not just one thing. People, people, my, my, one of my challenges here with this project is the phrase environmental education, because environmental education is, can mean, well, means different things. For some it means strictly, it's more K-12 education. For, to others, the phrase might trigger thoughts of environmentalist, and that word has its own charged meaning. But what I've— but what is, you know, I went into this project knowing that there were people working in different ways, and because I had met them with my previous endeavor and crossed paths with them. And so, so talking about environmental education without using that phrase so much, you know, is something that I'm— is one of my challenges, something that I really try to do. So when you look, if you were to visit the trailhead, you'll see people from different fields and who might be doing environmental education in a way you might not have expected. Because the people who do environmental education don't necessarily identify with the label environmental educator or interpreter. And by interpreter, I mean cultural and heritage interpreter. Interpreter. So, you know, interpreters are the people, you know, we get to learn from when we visit a national park or a state park or historic site.

So it's— I'm imagining that 2020 has been an exceptionally challenging year for people that— the people that you serve, and for environmental educators, interpreters, um, or whatever creative way you're referring to them. What, what are some of the, what are some of the challenges that they've had to negotiate and how, if, if at all, have there been any silver linings in the fact that we're mostly staying at home? And if we do go outside, which is sometimes okay, still social distancing.

Yeah. The challenge. Across the board is that people cannot meet with people in person, right? And so, and that is how they, they work, be it an after-school program, be it an afternoon program, or whatever it is that they did, did. They can't do that in person as they used to. And of course, the organizations have laid off a lot of people. People have been furloughed. Lots of people lost their jobs. Lots of people have have changed course quickly, you know, and had to change course. And the silver lining, I think, from all of this anxiety and shock and grief that's come out of the spring of this year has really resulted into a lot of energy and creativity, and has given some people the opportunity to develop their programs in a way that they never had than, you know, been able to do before because they were always, you know, running around class to class to class to class, and then all of a sudden things stopped, and then they had a moment to develop what they wanted to develop. I've attended, you know, conferences. The conferences went on, of course, they were all virtual, and but as different as the field looks now as different as people work now in the field, shh, do. The things that are shared at the conferences, the creative ways people are engaging with others online, and you're learning about all sorts of apps and all sorts of nifty ways to have conversation. It's, I think it's, um, yeah, I have no doubt that things will be okay once we get back to more moving forward. You know, it'll be now a really big, more developed online component to things.

Yeah, that has been a pretty consistent theme in the conversations that I've been having during 2020, is that after the initial shock of we can't do what we usually do because we can't meet in person, people quickly found out that they could leverage powerful digital tools that have been around actually for a little while. We just haven't really paid attention to them or used them to their fullest potential because we were used to the status quo of doing things the way that we'd always done them. And now, you know, once we got past the "let's do what we used to do in person, just do it in a Zoom room," which isn't really all that effective, but as we got more and more clever, more and more creative about the ways that we could leverage the tools, it seems as though we are poised when we exit the moment that we're in to be able to do both the in-person and the online better than ever before. So really heartened to hear you say that. I just imagine that as difficult as it was for me as a guitar instructor to say, oh, I have to now move everything entirely online, for somebody that is used to literally working outside too. Well, I suppose you could still, uh, Zoom with your phone out the field. Um, but I imagine that most, a lot of the freelance educators were doing things like this, uh, a lot of the time. I'm curious about, um, your journey. Uh, you and I have been knowing each other for a long time in digital years. We practically went to kindergarten together. Um, So in your journey, uh, developing this brand and developing your offerings through Talatera, what, what are some of the, the big, uh, lessons that came about because of a, of a, of a big mistake? What, what are the big mistakes that you can recall making? How did you recover, or how did you flip them to into opportunities, or how did you find, um, an important lesson that helped you become more resilient and stronger in what you are offering?

Yeah, my big mistake is a chronic mistake, okay? It's something that, that is always hovering over my head, and that is hanging, sticking with things too long. And, and so, um, I've gotten much better at, at changing course you know, of looking ahead and creating boundaries and changing course when I need to change course and not to hang on to things for so long because I can hang on to things for a long, long, long time. And so I've been able to do this because I've become more self-aware and because I have a new relationship with sunk costs. And that comes because of working with you, it becomes, uh, you know, and I have that new relationship because of my experiences in the Akimbo workshops. And so I've gotten better. I don't wait as long as I used to. Or actually, what's the biggest difference is that I will set something in motion and with an end date, you know, if, if, you know, if-then thinking, right? If this, then I've stopped there. And but then I also already have something on the other end to move to. So it's not— yeah, that's the difference.

It's such a, such a nuanced dance, this idea. Uh, well, number one, negotiating what's— or parsing the difference between am I Am I throwing good money after bad, or time and attention— good time and attention after, after poorly spent time and attention in a sunk cost? Am I in a dip that I should actually be powering my way through? And, you know, then what's— how do we distinguish the things that we should remain committed to, um, you know, for, for a period of time, just to make sure that that they are not working, as opposed to when do we quit something that is clearly not going to work out. One of the things that you mentioned was kind of having a schedule, which is— I love that idea. I've heard Seth Godin talk about this before, like define your timeframe.

And you—

so you have a goal, you have a strategy, you commit to the strategy, and you work towards that goal for whatever that period of time is. And the thing about goals is you know when or when you did or did not make them. And if you don't, it's time to give up or tweak and, and retry. So I love that. I'm gonna poke a little bit, um, more into this because you and I, um, share a, a common strength that with the flip side weakness, which is the ability to come up with many, many brilliant ideas, multiple brilliant ideas in a day and get really excited about them. And the flip side, the downside is creating distractions. For ourselves that keep, keep us from actually making the progress in the one thing that we need to be making progress in, and instead being productive and doing a lot of things, but not really moving the needle in terms of the prosperity and the promotion of our endeavor. So since you and I have been working on this a little bit this year, I wonder if you would just speak, speak to that, because I think it's a common, common trait of a lot of folks tuning in that are entrepreneurs or freelancers or just people involved in a side hustle or passion project, um, that don't— aren't making the progress that they'd really like to make.

Yeah, lots of, lots of ideas, uh, running out of time, bouncing around like a, like a ball in a pinball machine. Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that. That, that is, that is me on a, on an Well, that is me on any day. But how do I reel myself in is really getting— I've gotten better at identifying constraints, you know, as we've mentioned, boundaries. And how do I— and really being very, very focused. You know, I've tried all sorts of different things, different apps, different ways of building my calendar. And, um, but what it really comes down to is picking, just picking one thing, and the one thing that is really going to move my project forward and move my work forward. And when you sit and think about it and really can write them out, put up each thing you want to do on a Post-it note, it's pretty easy to identify what that one thing is, or what that— or what those two things are. And then the others can move the post— other Post-it notes to another, you know, to the side, put them in their own pile for some time later. I— yeah, I think it's just— it's a process of— and I'm a Post-it note person, so, you know, color code or not color coding, you know, just write it all, all out and have your life in front of you, and it's pretty easy then to see what needs to rise to the top and what can be set aside for later.

Yeah, well, one of the reasons that we're having this conversation is because we're featuring members of the Difference Maker community, so people that are Difference Maker coaching clients who are also members of our community of Difference Makers. And I know that, um, in addition to the work that you and I have done, just You're an active participant in the community, and we all leverage and count on that community to help us every week in an office hour session to share the thing that's challenging us and tap the wisdom of the room, fellow travelers who help us see the things that we can't see, usually the obstacles that we're putting right in our own way. So I wonder if you would just be willing to speak, to the Difference Maker coaching and community and how it might be helping you promote and make progress in your endeavor?

Oh yeah. Well, it's not might be helping me. It's been very, very helpful because look, I can live inside my head and I've done a lot of that. And, you know, I would be happy to live in a library, sit on the floor between the stacks and read and write every day about whatever. Okay, that's, that's where it's a happy spot for me. But the Difference Maker community, with every gathering, every weekly gathering, or whenever we do meet, uh, has resulted in a new layer of knowledge or a new layer of curiosity or a new layer of understanding being laid. And it always expands and changes how I look at at the world. And then working with you has been, uh, you know, it's been key to me retreating back into my own head. And it's been key— the conversations that we have, the, um, the way— the perspective that comes from every conversation that we have is really Um, it, it really is literally a, a next step into the next week or the next month. It really is, has been a stepping stone for me. Yeah.

I, I have to say that just our community conversations are always as enriching for me as, as they are for, for the, for the members. And every coaching client helps me get better at my craft and helps me refine my approach and, you know, become more effective and more efficient. One of the things that you're speaking to that has been reflected in our conversations and helped me make progress in the very same area is you spoke to this idea of, you know, we both, you and I, are people that could very happily live in our head all day long. And the, you know, it's a wonder, it's wonderful when we can be our own best friend and keep ourselves entertained and be in a joyful relationship with ourselves. And it can lead to the dangerous dynamics of confirmation bias and echo chamber, you know, and our ability to conflate our aspirations with actually advancing in our enterprise. And so, you know, that's to me one of the real powers of our community sessions is we express these things that are in our head and then other thoughtful, kind, and generous people who have a— don't give us tough love, but the real love of saying, um, you know what, by the way, something you may not be seeing. So I just always really appreciate those moments. In the calls when, you know, the thing that's been staring at us the whole time suddenly becomes visible, and we can then just figure out a way to work around it, through it, or to, you know, otherwise get rid of it so that we can actually do, do the work that we are meant to be doing at that moment. Well, I really appreciate that. Really appreciate your, well, your longstanding commitment to the coaching and the community and the way that you contribute so generously to all the conversations there. I wanted to, before we get to the final question. I neglected to bring this up earlier. In addition to your Teleterra community, you have a podcast as well, which is very popular amongst your audience. Tell us a little bit about the podcast and what goes on there, and where can people tune in to check that out?

Okay. The podcast is my opportunity to have conversations with the people who work independently in their communities. It's my way of bringing voice to their work, sharing their voices. When I started this project, I thought about having another blog. My previous endeavor had this— I had a blog for many years, but it wasn't live enough for me. And so I wanted to really hear the voices of these individuals and hear them tell their stories and for other people to hear their stories and to learn about the work that they do in their communities. And so that is what the podcast is about. I also, in addition to independent professionals, I also interview researchers whose research informs the work of these educators, independent educators, and, you know, and other people as well. So yeah, it's been great. I love the conversations I've been having. It's been a good ride, good run, and if you go to the website italitera.com, you'll see the podcast link and you'll find all the episodes there.

Yeah. And worth noting as well that you are a coach in the Podcast Fellowship, which is one of the Akimba Workshops, which is where you and I first, uh, I think you and I first collided in— was it the very first marketing seminar?

Um, I think it was— it's TMS 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, um, And just want to touch on something that you said that I think is really worth underlining and highlighting. You've talked about your podcast is creating a live engagement and there's a more narrative structure. We are by nature narrative creatures. It's storytelling is how we make sense of the world, how we make sense of ourselves and our situation, how we make sense of other people. And you're podcast really does a fantastic job of helping people unpack their stories in a way that I know must be immensely helpful to the audience that's tuning in. So definitely encourage people to check out Tanya's podcast. So as we're wrapping up here, Tanya, I would love for you to just share as, as, as someone advancing in the difference that only she could make, uh, people tuning in now and, and in replay are people like us who are doing things like this, trying to fly higher in the difference only they can make. What's a piece of advice or a tip that you would leave listeners with that would help them fly higher in the difference that they seek to make?

Yeah, my suggestion would be to stop silencing yourself. Stop saying no, can't, don't. Ask what if instead. I guess what, um, yeah, ask what if. Step in the case of whatever field you're in, step back from the content, the way things have always been done, the way you feel you need to be, and look at what you see in front of you. Acknowledge the honor, the hunches that you have, you know, honor the observations that you've made, the hunches that have come from the observations. You know what, look to see what is really there in front of you. Give your— honor yourself and give yourself a moment to really reflect back on what you see. Because if you see something that needs to be changed, you see a gap that needs to be filled, um, you know, the tendency, the ayestenoh for me, is to go look for at the literature, go find a book. Go to the library, look up a journal article. Okay, but I suspect that what you're looking for, you know, isn't— doesn't exist in a book or a journal article yet. So what if you were the one to make that contribution?

Yeah, really love that presence and being kind of aware. But you also highlighted the, the need to acknowledge what's really happening as opposed to some of the negative stories that might be going through our head based on failures or mistakes from the past or expectations that we're attached to in the future. There's a, there's a lot of opportunity if we just pay attention to what's going on in front of us right now.

Really love that.

Thank you so much. Well, I also want to thank you for tuning in. And Tanya and I really appreciate you lending us some of your valuable time and attention. We hope that today's broadcast motivates you to lean into an endeavor that matters with greater curiosity. Authenticity and Courage. You can learn more about Tanya Marian and her work at talatera.com. And of course, it's always great to see you at creativeonpurpose.com. Now go out and make the difference that only you can make and keep flying higher. Tanya Marian, thanks so much for your time and for all the expertise you shared with us today.

Oh, well, thank you, Scott. Thank you.