Robert Di Lisi - Creative on Purpose ive

Give us safe passage. And just like that, we did it again. Welcome to Creative on Purpose Live, conversations with inspiring difference makers to inspire a life of greater intention and impact. I'm your host, Scott Perry, Chief Difference Maker at Creative on Purpose. If you're ready to get clearer and closer to what you really want in life and business, visit creativeonpurpose.com today. Let's meet today's guest, Robert. Welcome to the broadcast. Please tell everyone who you are, what you're up to these days, and where can people go to learn more about you and the difference you're making?

Right, my name is Robert DeLisi. I live in Toronto, Canada. I am a licensed paralegal. Um, for those that are not familiar with paralegal, we are like lawyers but we work in the lower courts, which is our tribunals, and our main focus is landlord and tenant law. If anyone wants to look us up, you can look us up on Instagram or Facebook, Stonegate Legal Services.

Fantastic. So the first question I always love to ask people, just because I'm nosy, and so you can tell me to F off or you can go as deep as you want to go, but I'm just always curious about how do people come to be doing the work that they're doing. And so if there's a little bit of an origin story or backstory, I'd love to learn a little bit about you and how you came to be doing what you're doing.

So I do have an origin story. My story starts actually when I was 5 years old. Um, my father, an immigrant from Italy, he bought and sold properties and he owns real estate properties. So as a little kid, I was always collecting rent with him. Further on in my life, I became a real estate broker. Uh, with the problems of being a real estate broker is that it's on commission, so your paychecks are never steady. So we opened up— when I say we, my wife and I opened up a property management company that dealt with landlord and tenant matters. We started going to court, or what we call the board, uh, regarding these landlord and tenant matters, and we found out that we couldn't represent unless you were a lawyer or a paralegal. So the way that we got around it at the time was we became directors for the company, but my wife and I decided to go back to school to acquire our paralegal licenses. And we no longer do real estate anymore. All we do is landlord and tenant law, assisting landlords with their problems.

That's really interesting. So, uh, in a way you just kind of continued the family legacy. Um, and yeah, I think that's fantastic. Uh, you know, it sounds like you're a good Italian son.

Well, we'll see.

Sometimes my dad changes his mind whether my name's in the will or Well, what's interesting, the, the, the little twist in your story that I think is interesting and maybe interesting for the people that are going to tune into this broadcast is that, you know, you, you started doing something that was familiar to you because it's something you grew up with. And I'm guessing that it certainly gave you enough sense of meaning and fulfillment in your life to continue to do that and make a decent living at it as well. But then Along the way, you kind of discover, like, there's this problem. You, you discover a problem that you have to solve for yourself, right? And so you figure that out, and then you actually— it sounds like you turn that into a whole different occupation, vocation. Um, and, uh, you know, I'm just curious about if, if I've, if I've landed at that conclusion correctly, but also Is there any distinction in like your level of fulfillment, your sense of meaning, you know, the meaningfulness of your work, or, uh, just, you know, the joy or, or, um, connection that, that, you know, as you transition from kind of one type of thing to another type of thing?

Yeah, so when we are real estate brokers, I'll tell you, the, the knowledge and information that I have is very similar, but because of our management background and owning real estate it is more fulfilling now because at least where I'm from— I'm from Ontario, Canada. Ontario is a province, in case you have Americans listening, it's like a state, so we call it a province. So, um, it's fulfilling because right now landlords are having a huge problem with non-paying tenants, getting them evicted, going to the board, which is the, like, the court. Right now it takes about 8 months. So when we're able to solve those problems you can see the huge relief on them that they're able to resolve it and move on with their lives.

Really interesting. I know from conversations that we've had in person that, you know, there are— and you've referenced like right now that there's even more problems around this. I mean, I am, you know, just of the mind that, um, I mean, we just entered the Year of the Dragon in the Chinese lunar calendar, and, you know, there is— there are— there are It's a time that's predicted to be tumultuous and disruptive, which means that there will be suffering as we elevate our consciousness or make shifts. There will also be tons of opportunities. And, you know, one of the things that we're doing at Creative On Purpose is trying to help people navigate the hard parts with a greater sense of equanimity and purpose, but also find those opportunities and leverage them as opportunities to propel yourself forward. So I'm curious about, um, I know that one discussion I recall from us having when we were together in Phoenix is, uh, was around Airbnb matters and things like that. But yeah, no, there's, there's lots of new things happening in every domain, and real estate and, and the law is not, is not protected from any of that. So, um, I'd love to just hear, like, what are some of the what are some of the things that are causing this increase in, you know, landlords needing your services? And what are the other disruptive kind of technologies or laws or just, uh, societal forces that are— that, that you're finding, and how are you navigating them?

So I'm going to say the number one problem that we're facing is because of the interest rates. So I think that's everywhere. I think in the States you're having the same problem. A lot of people chose a variable rate. I don't know if you guys use variable, but with that— okay, you do. So with the variable rate mortgages, landlords are now underwater. So they have to make a choice. They have to either try to sell the property or get the tenants to pay more rent. Well, unfortunately, you can't just get the tenants to pay more rent because there's rules and procedures on getting them to raise the rent. So they try to sell the property. The problem is, is the tenant does not have to move out just because you want to sell it. That also includes a process. And unfortunately, to get to the board, which is the governing body, it takes 8 months. So if you have a sale on a property with a closing of 60, 90, or even 120 days and you can't close, you're going to be in breach of contract. So what they do is they call us to try to develop a settlement with the tenant to get them out as quickly as possible so that the landlords can liquidate their asset and not have the burden of these higher mortgage payments. Because some of these people are having double, even triple mortgage payments now.

Yeah, that's interesting. My wife, when we moved to this little town in Virginia, actually opened up a mortgage brokerage. So I, I have enough understanding of interest rates and all that to know that I actually know absolutely nothing. But everything that you're sharing is certainly something that I'm somewhat familiar with. So, I mean, you know, it sounds like for the people involved, these are, you know, these are fairly wicked problems. They're complex. They, you know, there's stakes in jeopardy involved. You know, people are, you know, lots of money is on the line and so forth. And on the other end, You know, the tenant is also probably experiencing, um, some, some stress and, and, and some uncertainty around all that as well. So I'm just curious if as part of like, you know, what you do and just knowing you a little bit, I'm getting a sense that for you it's not all about just, um, the letter of the law and, uh, you know, let's, uh, you know, just, just, uh, what's that line just from Dragnet? Just the facts, ma'am. So like, how, how, you know, there seems to be some kind of human-to-human, um, soft skill stuff that must be going on as well. And like, what are the things that you find, uh, help you navigate that piece?

Right. So we try to be fair with landlords and tenants. We don't like working with with, uh, bad landlords, I guess I'll say, is that they just want to sell it. They don't care about the tenants because tenants need a place to live too. There's not— everyone thinks that tenants are bad. They're not bad. They're people just like you and me. They're trying to live. They're trying to find housing. So what we try to do is when we try to talk to the tenants, we try to give them a resolution, which is a settlement, so that they can find another property with some money in hand to help them find another property so that the landlord can now do what they need to do. Amazingly, when we talk to tenants, they actually thank us for calling them because they know the landlord doesn't know enough to deal with the situation. So when we talk to them, they're actually grateful and we do work out some kind of settlement. Sometimes it's more than what a landlord wants to pay, but at least it's a starting, uh, starting of where we can go with it. So that is probably a big thing in the diplomacy of dealing with tenants and landlords.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and it speaks to something that we talk quite a bit about in the communities that I'm in, is number one, engaging in discourse where we're clear, direct, and respectful in the language that we use, and Um, you know, like everyone should understand what it is we're talking about, what it is that, that we can't talk about right now. And, um, and speaking in language that is, you know, where everyone can understand what's going on. Like so many times we forget that, you know, between my intention and your interpretation of what I'm saying, or your— the impact to you on what I'm saying is this interpretation. You're telling yourself one story about what's going on and I'm telling myself another story. And when those clash, we have some sort of you know, there's some sort of communication breakdown and there, there could be a lot of fallout. So it's just, I, I love that, um, you're, you're really, really trying to bridge the gap, you know, between landlord needs, uh, and renter expectations and needs, um, and trying to find ways, you know, that make everybody happy enough so that they can both get, right, most of what they want, if not all of what they want. So I, I love that piece of it. Just to, um, I referenced that we met in Phoenix a while ago. I don't know if you're heading down there again. And it's either this weekend or next weekend is the next event that Laurel is hosting. What were some of, you know, that's Laurel is a social media ad strategist. That's like her kind of main thing is she helps people open up the Facebook dashboard and push buttons and create content that will help them grow their businesses. Just curious, beyond, you know, we also heard from other people, uh, while we were there, and just curious, you know, as someone that I'm guessing came into Laurel's world with just like these, this business thing, like how do I use Facebook ads or what social media to improve my, my bottom line and grow my business, were any of the things that were else that were discussed of interest? Did you find yourself applying those. I'd just love to, to have you touch on any of those.

You know, when I go to these live events, it's not always about the material that you learn. It's the other people that we, that we meet. Like, for example, you I met at breakfast, I believe, and we just started talking. So you see other people's journeys and you see if they're doing it, you can do it. I have a small business, and the reason why I went to the event was I knew what I was doing, but to watch it live and to see how other people are using it for their purposes helped me. So in regards to getting new business, it's— I'm not really using it for getting new business, it's nurturing the existing business or the existing people that see my website or my content. And again, meeting people like you that are doing this kind of stuff is a huge advantage, huge. So shout out to Laurel.

Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Well Um, so there were some things that we discussed along— well, I, I guess I'm interested in, because I think that if you are not a lawyer or associated with any kind of endeavor that requires some contact with people that, you know, are in the legal realm, um, it is possible for you to have a misconstrued idea of people who, who are, um, and one of the things that I remember talking to you about was just like, you know, you're a lawyer, you crack law books and you, you, you research and you figure out how, how to leverage the law to get your clients closer to what they want in life. But you also, from what I recall, also you generate like a lot of content. I remember, you know, video and YouTube channel and things like that. Um, tell us a little bit about your— like, what's, what's the intention behind— what kind of content are you creating? What's the intention behind it? And how does— how do you see it all fitting into the larger picture of, of just running your business?

Right. So full disclosure, I'm not a lawyer. So that's a good—

I'm sorry, paralegal.

We are paralegals, which is like the lower courts, but I know what you're trying to say. So So yes, 99% of my work that comes into our office is through social media. So yes, we do a lot of content. The reason why we do it is that, first of all, no one in my space is doing it. So being one of the first or the only giving educational videos— and my videos are not long, especially on Instagram, they're 1 minute long, they're little snippets of a bigger picture. But what I find is that by doing these little videos, they watch my other videos. And the reason why I know is they start liking videos from 2 years ago. So obviously they're following the content. Now, the content that I do for Instagram and for Facebook, because you can do that at the same time, we've now expanded into YouTube because obviously you can do longer format and we are getting a lot of business from it. So easy to get business because let's— social media is free unless you start using ads. But I find that the followers, um, they, they learn to trust us more by watching our content first before contacting us. And sometimes when I'm on the phone with them and I'm discussing things, they're like, oh yeah, I learned about this already, you, you touched on this, you touched on that. And believe it or not, I don't even have to sell my services. I just have to give them you know, a little pep talk, and they're like, okay, where do I sign? I'm ready to start because I trust you already. I like you already. It's just a matter of having a little conversation. And that's why we've been— I'm going to be— I'm going to be careful how I say this, but we're dominating our industry in our state province.

Yeah, really, really fascinating. Um, just because I know it will be of value to the people that tune into this, um, that are that are, you know, have— I mean, I think the things that make any business successful are the same, and they've been the same for a long time. If you have a product, service, an idea that you want to promote, or a cause that you're trying to promote, the challenge is that people have to first become aware that you even exist. They have to be willing to pay some attention to you. They have to trust you enough to give you permission to have a more direct conversation. And that's like all what brand mark— any kind of marketing does. It's just a brand awareness, brand attention, brand trust, and then permission to engage. And then the sales piece of it is when they decide that they're interested in your solution to their problem or your the way that you can help them achieve an aspiration, and they're willing to consider enrolling in that journey with you, and they finally invest. And so like marketing and sales tend to be two different things. And it sounds like what I'm hearing is that you're really masterfully using the organic and maybe some paid content on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube because it's It's just a way to— that's how you can give people exposure and proximity to, you know, exposure to what you do and how you do what you do and why you do what you do. And then some proximity, you know, you're now no longer a stranger, you're a familiar face, you're earning that permission and trust. So by the time that it's time for them to like consider investing and gaining that access, which I think is what we all ultimately sell. It's not like the— I don't know if anybody's heard of ChatGPT, but it has all the information you need in any domain. It will tell you what you need to know on an info— it will even give you a plan if you want to try to DIY it. But if you are eager to save time and probably money too, you need access to a trusted guide, and that's where You know, that's what we're actually— I, I feel like that's what we're all selling. And so, yeah, you got the brand marketing on social media, but you're also, because you're a local business, you probably are just knocking it out of the park in terms of the YouTube search engine. Like, people, if you're looking for, uh, a paralegal that can help you with this problem and you live in Ontario, Canada, I'm guessing you're maybe the only game that—

yeah, we pop up. Yeah. Yeah. Can I share something with you?

Oh, absolutely.

Because I think your viewers would know this, something that I got from Laurel. And if you might remember, do you remember the CASE? Do you remember CASE?

Oh yeah, of course.

So remember, collect, analyze, strategize, and execute. Well, I will say, because people ask me, you know, what is your secret? Like, how have you grown so much? And I tell people all the time, you must plan and consistency. Like when we put our content up, it's not whenever. It's twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays. Monday is a general post. Thursday is a video. And if I don't follow that now, people actually message me, what's going on? Why are you not posting? So they now expect it. It's like a TV show. Same with our YouTube channel. If we don't post, because sometimes on the holidays things don't work out or whatever the case is, they remind me. So they want the consistency. It's like that drip, drip, drip. And like I said, sometimes they'll look at videos from 2 years ago. So the big thing I want to say is consistency. That's the big one.

Yeah, I love that. And well, it reminds me of— so I, I was fortunate enough to have been a head coach in Seth Godin's Akimbo Workshops for a number of years. And one of the things that he is famous— one of his best-known quotes is the, you know, you know you're doing work that matters if they miss you. You know, he says the question to answer is, would they miss you if you were gone?

Right.

And it's always really nice when you have a hiccup in your content delivery and someone says, hey, you still with us? Or, you know, you okay? You feeling all right? I love that. That's a fantastic story. Yeah, perfect example of, uh, will they miss you when you're gone? But, you know, the other thing that you just shared that, um, I think is important to highlight is when you're doing this kind of this content brand, you know, brand marketing through content delivery, it's impossible to measure in like real terms how many people are seeing it, how many, like, how much business is coming as a direct result of seeing any given post, any given YouTube video, because what it normally is is the compounding effect of people paying attention over a period of time. And then so it's like that moment when they need you, or that, that moment when they remember like, oh, you know, Robert could, could help me with this. And so I just, I share that because, and I'd love to hear your experience around this, like when you decide to get into this game of content, uh, marketing, it can feel like you're just shouting into the wind, screaming into the void. Nobody's paying attention, nobody's liking it, nobody's commenting. And it's easy to just say, well, this doesn't work and I'll just not do it. Um, it— but it, it's not sexy and it doesn't work until it is sexy and you do see it kind of work. When people say, hey, I've been following you on YouTube, or following you on Instagram, um, and you're thinking, I've never seen this name pop up in my reactions or my comments. Um, it's, you know, like, but yet that is the effect. So how did— I mean, if that was true or is true for you, you know, how did you, how did you maintain that commitment that you were just talking about?

So when I started in real estate, um, we started doing videos But in real estate, the problem is, is everyone's a real estate agent. So when you're doing the videos, they're very— they're the same as everyone else. So you try to do whatever you can. When I got into the legal field, nobody was doing it. So we made a commitment when we started Instagram. I was gonna— I'm gonna say it took probably a good solid 3 to 6 months before we saw anything out of it. And for YouTube, I've only been doing it for 1 year, and only in the last couple of months we're seeing a huge, huge response. So it does take time. Like, a lot of people think that, you know, you're going to do it and it's going to turn into instant money. No, that's not the way it works. You've got to drip it, you got to inform them, you got to educate them, they got to learn to trust you, and then the, the reaps of the rewards will come afterwards. And the thing is, is that once you start seeing the rewards, it encourages you to do more, better content and deliver more of what they want. And you'll see in the responses, if you remember with Laura, she always says, you know, people will respond to you and solve that problem. Do a content on that, on that problem. And that's what I do. I listen to what the problems are. And then I plan, like we already talked about, and then I plan my posts accordingly. And, uh, I'm gonna say anyone that's starting has got to commit at minimum 6 months of not expecting anything. And that's if you are giving what they want. Like, if you're just going to be doing just general videos, it's, it's got to be what they want. So answering questions, problems that they are having.

Yeah, that's, uh, really great advice. And for you as a paralegal in the real estate realm with a dedicated, um, solution to a landlord problem. It's probably, uh, probably feels like that would be easier than a lot of the folks that I'm dealing with who are kind of life coaches or business coaches or creatives, uh, or, you know, freelancers, um, of one stripe or another. And it can feel like You know, how do I know what problem I'm solving when I don't really know who I'm addressing? And like what you're speaking to is you have to know who you have to know who you're talking to. You actually have to know who you are. And the other thing is something that I've been really cautioning people about is because I'm at that point where I don't just have to work with someone just because they want to work with me. It's like, are you really good at what you do?

Right.

And by— and it's like the case thing that you were talking about, like, let's collect some data through client testimonials, um, and analyze what people are, you know, saying that you're good at and the solutions that you got from them, because then we can strategize and execute a plan that will help you get more of those people, right? You know, so many people, it's, they want to go right to the tools and tactics. I want to do, you know, I'm going to use social media and I'm going to use this content tactical strategy to get the word out. They haven't answered the fundamental questions at the bottom of the period around like, what is it that I actually believe in? And what are the principles that I use to solve that problem? Because the strategy lies between those things. Things. If, if you're just doing tools and tactics, you are not going to succeed. And if you just live in the clouds with your philosophy and principles, you're not going to make change happen. It's like you have to bridge that gap with that strategy. And I love what you had to say about that, like commitment, planning. Uh, it's really important. We're coming to the, the end of our 30 minutes together. Uh, Robert. And the last question is always just to leave the, the viewers and the listeners like with just one final, um, it could be a quote, a quote, a principle that you live by, a maxim of some sort, um, or just, uh, an exercise or principle that, that you apply in making the difference that you make that would apply broadly to anyone that seeks to, um, you know, connect more deeply with people they care about so that they can get them from where they are to where they want to be. And so if you just have one final tip for our audience.

I have to say, first, you have to, you have to follow Scott Perry. That's number one.

All right.

That's number one. Number two is even if you don't know what your purpose is, get into something. That might sound crazy. By starting something, you'll fail at it. But you might learn from it to do something else. So I, I will tell you that, yes, we— my office is doing extremely well. But there's a quote that someone once told me, is that it took 20 years to become an overnight success. And I will tell you, it's true. It took me 20, 25 years to get to where I am, of failing, of going to courses, the gurus, all this other crap— can I say crap? Crap that I've digested. And finding people like you— and I'm going to give another shout out to Laurel because she is a breath of fresh air when it comes to Facebook advertising. And it's true, it took me 25 years of learning systems. That's going to be an important thing that I always tell people: develop your systems, consistency, and just be around good people that have the same goals as you.

That's super fantastic. It's so interesting that you led with purpose, because yesterday in our Substack subscriber community, we actually had an hour-long discussion around the paths to purpose. And one of them was to just do the things you're already doing purposefully. Like, if you're looking for purpose, purpose is not out there. It's It's something that emerges naturally from just bringing purpose to the things that you're already doing. So just phenomenal that you underlined that for us.

Can I add something? Do you mind?

Oh, absolutely. Go ahead.

So I grew up in an Italian household, and when we failed, my dad would yell at us, "Ah, you did bad. You did bad." And later on in life, I learned failing's not bad as long as you fail forward and you learn. And I saw another quote, and I don't know if I'm going to say this right. Every time you fail, you're not starting all over again. You're starting with experience. And that is great because I have failed hundreds and hundreds of times. And each time you learn something and you progress forward. That's the purpose of life. Keep progressing.

Absolutely. We all could stand to change our narrative around what failure actually is, as opposed to what it really provides, which is learning opportunities. That's fantastic. Well, we want to thank everyone for tuning in. Robert and I really appreciate your time and attention. And we hope that today's broadcast motivates you to take a bolder step into possibility in whatever it is that you want to make a difference in. To keep go-go going with defining, developing, and delivering the difference only you can make, you can visit creativeonpurpose.com. And if you're watching on social media or YouTube, please hit the Like button, Leave us a comment or a question. It's always great to hear from you, and it really helps more of the right people connect with this content. If you're listening on the podcast, same deal. Please give us a 5-star rating and leave us a review to make, help more of the people that need to hear this, hear these kind of conversations. And now take the insight and inspiration from today's show and go play your game all in and full out. Robert, thank you so much for all of your time and insight today.

Thank you.