In this interview, Scott Perry discusses why many people feel stuck after following the conventional path of education, career advancement, and material success—a trajectory he labels the "industrial educational occupational complex." He explains that despite meeting societal expectations, individuals often lack meaning, flourishing, and a sense of purpose. Perry introduces the metaphor of the "first mountain" (the initial career climb) versus the "second mountain," a later-life shift toward service, sacrifice, and soul. He argues that this transition may be triggered by failure, trauma, or a breaking open of one’s self, and that the system is rigged against discovering this alternative path. Perry emphasizes that each person possesses inherent values, virtues, and soft skills—human connection, communication, collaboration, creativity—that can be cultivated. He offers practical daily practices such as taking courageous steps, practicing gratitude, and generosity to become braver and kinder. The concept of "living your legacy" is presented as making a difference now, not through money or monuments. Finally, Perry frames the shift from a victim mentality to a heroic one as a decision to invest in oneself, trust one’s destiny, and move from "life happening to me" to "life happening through me," thereby becoming what one is meant to become.
Chapters
And I know that the work that you're doing with Creative on Purpose is to help people to make shifts that they might need to make in their lives. So if there's people that are listening to the show, and I know for sure that there are, um, not listening but listening in this way, um, people that are listening that may feel like they are stuck, maybe they are, you know, midlife, done the things that they were supposed to do, they've climbed the corporate ladder, they get to this place and they go, huh, Is this all there is, really? Um, what do you— what could you say to those people that would be hopeful?
Sure. Well, the first thing I would say is, um, that experience that you're having is true, and it's not your fault. We live in a world— I call it the educational, uh, the industrial educational occupational complex. We are taught from a very young age that, you know, if we sit in straight lines and do as we're told and keep our heads down and try to get along and follow the directions, um, that, you know, we will be rewarded. And so, you know, you go to school, you get good grades, you get to go to school again where you can get good grades, and then you can go get a job and you can get paid, and you might move up the ladder by continuing to do what you're told. And then, you know, at some point some of us wake up to this, you know, fact that despite doing all the things that we were told to do and doing them to the best of our ability, we don't feel happy. We don't have a sense of meaning, flourishing, and thriving in our lives. And also to say, if you— I hope that as you've been following the traditional path, you did experience some, some joy, some meaning, and some flourishing. But many of us at some point, you know, decide that what David Brooks calls the first mountain is not the only journey available. Sometimes it requires, you know, to see that there's another way, another mountain, another way, uh, you know, that we can approach our second act or second half of life. Sometimes that requires, um, you know, a, a fall, a failure, a trauma of some sort. And if we're lucky enough to, you know, be broken, but not, uh, not completely broken, but broken open, we might wake up to the idea that there's this other way to be. And if you're lucky enough to have, um, to survive whatever it is that wakes you up to that there's more to it than, um, status and salary and stuff, there is a path that of sacrifice, service, and soul that you can pursue. And if you haven't seen it up to this point, again, that's because the system was rigged, stacked against you. If what I'm saying sounds like it's true or it's resonating on some level, then the invitation is you have— if you're listening to this, you have all the resources you need. To investigate who you really are. What are you really good at? Where do you really belong? And I would argue that who you really are is your values, your virtue, your— the content of your character. What you're really good at are, yeah, maybe the hard skills that you learned on the job and, uh, and at school, but maybe also the— maybe even more so the soft skills of human-to-human connection, communication, collaboration, creativity. And where you belong is with people who share your values and need your talents to enhance their lives. And your life will be enhanced by serving and contributing to others. Uh, and I guess what also comes up for me, Lindsay, is we're all born into different situations, some more privileged than others. We're also all born with different temperaments and tolerances. You know, some of us just naturally have a more optimistic outlook than others. Some of us have a natural— naturally have more resilience than others. And all these things that I'm talking about are also teachable, learnable skills that we can develop through practice. You can become half a shave braver every day by just doing— taking one courageous step into your potential and possibility every day. You can become a little bit kinder by practicing gratitude and generosity, a simple small act of generosity, a simple statement of gratitude for an everyday experience, convenience, or pleasure. And you can step into your potential and the you that you aspire to be. At Creative On Purpose, we talk about living your legacy. Legacy isn't the money and monuments. You leave behind. It's the difference you're making right now. And that invitation is open. My assertion would be it's open to anybody that's listening, and it merely comes down to the— to a decision that I am going to investigate, explore the edges of my understanding and ability, and pursue a different way of being. And by doing that, you will become what you were meant to become. Uh, so leveraging the faith idea, like if you trust yourself enough to invest in yourself and do the work to become what destiny has in store for you, uh, then that is— you will move from the posture of life is happening to me, the victim mentality of life is happening to me, into the more heroic life is happening through me. And you will earn the trust and the faith that you can figure it out and you can find your way into a better way of being.
That feels so hopeful. It gives me shivers almost to hear you speak about that.
