Scott Perry Interview with James Taylor for the Online Guitar Summit 2016

Hey, it's James Taylor here. There are very few guitar teachers out there that can both teach effectively in person and online, and Virginia-based blues guitarist Scott Perry is one of those. In addition to teaching and playing blues and jazz, he is also known as an exponent of rock and roll and honky-tonk. He has helped hundreds of guitarists on their musical journey, from newbies to professionals and everywhere in between. Now, the thing is, Scott doesn't teach tricks. He is about providing guided guitar lessons and coaching to his students, whether that's face-to-face or online. Now, what he will do is encourage and cultivate you in finding your unique and authentic style. It's my great pleasure to have Scott here today. Welcome, Scott.

Hey, James, it's really good to see you again.

So share with our viewers just now, how did you get started playing? How did you first fall in love with the guitar as an instrument? When did you kind of get into blues? Because that's obviously what you're known for, specifically as a teacher.

I actually, I was one of those people that had several false starts as a boy. I started, I got my first guitar when I was 9 and purchased it with like paper route money. And my first guitar teacher, I lived in a really small town and he was just only taught classical and it wasn't what I was interested in, but it was the only opportunity I had to learn. Not a nice person, and he had really bad breath, so that relationship didn't last very long. And then I tried again, maybe around 13, 14, and it was a Berklee School of Music grad who was, um, more in love with himself than the— than teaching. And so he— we spent a lot of lessons with him just kind of showing me how good he was, not trying to, to teach me anything necessarily. So that relationship didn't last very long. I finally had a good experience with a young lady who was home on college break, and she taught me some tunes that I wanted to learn, and she was a great teacher. But of course, then she went back to college, so I just, I just kept like picking it up and putting it down. And then when I went to college, I heard this album by Taj Mahal called Oh So Good and Blue. And, uh, albums were these vinyl discs that went into cardboard sleeves that we used to carry around. And, uh, I took this album down to the music department of the place— of the college I was going to— and I literally knocked on the door of every guitar teacher and said, can you teach me to play like this? And, um, the door got slammed in my face 2 or 3 times. And then the last door I knocked on was this guy Carl Dimo, who was the first great teacher that I had, who was also a great guitar player. And he said, yeah, I can show you how to do that. And I just— that's when it kind of hit. And I was in college with, you know, hanging out with other guitar players. We started bands, knuckleheaded around. And, uh, you know, I graduated from college with a degree in history and education thinking I was going to be a teacher, like a school teacher. And I did that for a little while. Um, but then, uh, like about 5 years out of school, I just said, you know, I'm gonna do this music thing. I think, you know, I just, I just love it. I can't not do it. And so it's one of those things where you, you know, you want to live a life without regrets. So you say, well, I'm going to try this. I'm young and I'm relatively unencumbered. I'll give it a go. And if it doesn't work out, at least I won't, you know, be my age now and say, ah, geez, I wish, you know, I wish I had done that, or I wish I could have, or could I? So yeah, that's— and it was straight to from Taj Mahal to like Robert Johnson, Mississippi John Hurt, Reverend Gary Davis. Blind Willie McTell, Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Lemon, all the blind guys.

All the blind guys.

Yeah, and, uh, you know, and then eventually writing songs that tried to replicate that kind of old school blues feel. So yeah, that's how my, uh, journey got started. It was, you know, like, like most, I guess, just pure blind luck and, and I guess in the beginning just, uh, dogged perseverance just keep trying. But yeah, it's been a great journey.

And I'm guessing that second teacher that you had, it was more about him kind of showing off what he could do. And obviously then you went and you can actually study education as a subject and how teaching kind of works. So what sets the way that you teach guitar apart maybe from the way that other people might teach guitar?

Well, I think, um, so that, that particular teacher, I remember this one pivotal moment when I was, um, maybe 3 months, 4 months into lessons, and my mom or my dad asked, you know, hey, do you think that he has any promise? And his answer was, that kid will never earn enough playing music to cover the lessons that you're paying for. And my parents never told me that until well into my career. But, and that was before I started teaching, but I remember when I first began teaching, it was really, you know, like a lot of people, I got into it at first out of necessity. I needed to earn more income, um, but then I soon found that that was what I really loved to do. And then I almost didn't want to do anything else but teach. Um, but, but I've made a real habit out of, you know, talking to my students about what their motivation is and what their aspirations are. And, um, and I've probably— a good part of my teaching practice is taking people that have had a bad experience like the kind that I had early on and, um, you know, flipping that so that, um, you know, their love for the music that they aspire to play is kind of rejuvenated and reborn. And then it's all about just, you know, the path to, to the, to quick success. You know, I, my, my, uh, my attitude is if I can get them playing whatever song they want to learn, uh, you know, in as few lessons as possible, I call it sinking the hook. You know, then I, once I got them hooked, I can, I can kind of, you know, bring them along. Um, but I think, you know, learning your first song is always the, the, the trick. Most teachers slap a Mel Bay book and say, okay, here's the E string, here's the F note, here's the G note. And anybody that sticks with it that way, I guess their love for music is born out. But I think it's a difficult way to approach teaching.

And it must be, you know, you'll have seen the differences from, let's say, 30 years ago when people, okay, they could have accessed the Mel Bay books, and Mel Bay's book was great. Then they moved on and, you know, then you had like all the VHSs or the Betamax, you know, those ones, like the Alan Roth Hot Licks and stuff. And now, frankly, there's just like, like, seems to be millions of guitar lesson videos on YouTube about how to do stuff. And while it's obviously great that there's lots of incredible, there's some very good stuff on there as well, it must make it quite difficult, like, with the students that you kind of work with, they're seeing all these different things and all these different influences and they're trying to figure out where everything kind of sits in their head. So you talk about what you do is you almost act as a bit of a, as well as a teacher, as a guide to kind of helping them figure out their route, their place. So can you talk about that, the nature, the guided nature of what you do?

Well, I think it's the amount of free information that's out there now is incredible and a lot of it is extremely well done and high quality, not just in the presentation but the information that's being shared. And it's funny because I meet some teachers that are like, "Ah, YouTube's the worst thing that's ever happened. I'm losing all my students to YouTube." And I'm like, "Well, if you're losing students to YouTube, you've been doing something wrong all along." And it's like people that hate TABE, everybody should learn how to read. These are all just— these are all tools. Everybody learns differently. Um, some people can like absorb 20 YouTube videos in a day and have a lot of that information stick, and some people need, um, just to get pointed to, you know, the— have things set up for them so that they can sequentially grow their guitar playing skill. And so I do watch You know, back when Betamax and VHS came along, I bought them all. When DVDs came along, I bought them all. And books— I owned a music store, so I bought all the books I wanted to learn. So I've really— I've become like a librarian. I know where all this stuff is, and I really encourage my students to get out there and poke around, but to make sure that they're not doing it as a way of hiding from, you know, practicing or finding their own voice. I mean, it can be very alluring to chase all these shiny pretty things that are on the internet, but if you don't sit in your chair and actually practice, that's— it's not going to improve your guitar playing skills by osmosis. You can't just— it's not the Matrix where you can just plug it, plug it into the back of your head and have it come out of your fingers. So yeah, I think it's, it's really important that educators, teachers embrace that tool and also remember that because there's so much, you know, because it's free doesn't mean it's bad. In many cases it's good, but because it's free, it's— there's nothing invested. So that's where the value of working with a teacher face-to-face or online comes in is that you, you're saying, I am worth investing in myself. I'm going to pay this person to give me guitar lessons and provide me with some guidance in this jungle called the internet. And, and then the accountability is built into that as well. You know, you're, if you're going to show up every week and you're not making progress, then somebody's going to call you out on it and try to right the ship and get you back on your path.

I'm just kind of reflecting on my own learning of music as well and thinking like some of the best teachers that I think I ever had would be very good at also saying what not to focus on. What, you know, I would come in and say, I've just seen this thing and like, and they could obviously tell that's like It was great that I was getting sparked from it, but maybe it was going to take me away from where I was kind of the next stage I needed to get to in my playing. So they would say, "That's amazing. Like, remember that, park that just now, and then we'll get to that like at this point here." So I'm imagining like when you're having to teach these students and they're coming to you with all this like, "Oh, I've just seen this incredible thing," like how do you kind of at the same time keep them obviously engaged by it, but also kind of keep them on track with their personal learning journey?

I always— so I, again, I always, when they first come to me, it's like checking their motivation and their intention and their aspirations. Like, why do you want to do this? And where do you see it going? And, you know, what's your short and long-term goals? And that's like a— and that process has to be iterated throughout the course of your relationship with the student because when they come in, sometimes they don't even know, you know. It's just like, I don't know. And it's just because they— they— it looks fun, it looks— they love music, they want to do it. Okay, let's, let's get started. But then 3 months in, it's important to say, okay, now that we're here, where do you see this going? Um, and, uh, I also— when people come to me like with those kind of like I'll have students that have watched YouTube videos of Eddie Van Halen and they're doing all this tapping stuff, or watching Andy McKee and now they're doing slappy-happy stuff. And I say, "It's awesome. What's it for?" You know? And that question, "What's it for?" is one that I use in every aspect of my life because if the purpose of learning how to tap or play that percussive style of guitar is to impress, you know, that's not what music's purpose is. And that goal is not sustainable and it's not very fulfilling in the end. So I'm always saying, you know, the purpose is to get you to find first your unique musical voice develop and cultivate it, and then it has to be expressed, it has to be shared with an audience, whether that's Facebook Live, YouTube videos, small performances at the beginning. And so yeah, it's just all always checking in with that motivation and intention and aspiration, and that's all that just comes from those three simple words: what's it for?

And, and you obviously, you have this career as both a teacher and also as a performing musician as well. So how do you sustain that? Because I'm imagining, you know, that's a, that's a lot to get. And I know that you teach a lot in person, a lot online, and then also you're playing as well. How, how do you stay sane with all that kind of going on and, and, and still feeling invigorated when you, you kind of want to go either go on stage or have that, that student that's coming up to you?

Uh, sustaining a career I mean, so I think that the question really is, you know, how— I don't really see myself as being a, a great guitar player. I mean, you, you've worked with some of my heroes, people like Tommy Emmanuel, Robin Nolan, Frank Vignola. You know, these are guitar players and they are playing on the big stages because they are fantastic, not just fantastic technicians. They are fantastic artists, and they're also really great human beings. Um, I started my guitar playing journey fairly late in life. I mean, if you start at age 18, you don't have— you're just never going to achieve the same level of technical ability, I think, that you would if you started when you were 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. So, you know, how— so the question might be, how do you sustain a career as a musician when you're really not that good?

And, uh, or maybe you're not at that, that kind of level of, of the, of the Tommys, Franks.

And so again, just, you know, the, the importance of intention and motivation. So when I decided I wanted to play music, I recognized that I was never going to be the best guitar player on the planet. I probably wasn't going to be the best guitar player in the town or city I was living in. I was probably not going to be the best guitar player on the block that I lived in. Sometimes I wasn't the best guitar player in the house that I was living in. But, um, but I loved it, and I had that burning desire to, like, you know, express myself through music and do it in front of other people. I was very in tune with who I was and the music that I loved. And I think also, so a lot of it is just dogged determination and just not being willing to give up. I, because I've been doing it for a long time and have made a living and bought houses and raised a family, you know, people say, well, how, you know, should I do that? And I always say, well, if you're asking me that question, Probably no, you shouldn't, because if, if you really wanted to, you would just be doing it. I mean, you would maybe want to tell me how to do it, how to 2x it or 5x it or 10x it. But, um, you know, a career in the arts in general, and music in particular, it's not something you do because it's lucrative.

No.

Um, it's something that you do because you just simply can't do anything else. I've I've tried to stop playing music for a living on at least two occasions. Um, on both of them, my wife, you know, as she watched me like shove the guitar in its case under the bed, um, she said, yeah, I'll give you two weeks. And then usually within one week, I'm pulling it back out and I'm on the phone saying, hey, you know, can I get a gig? Um, so it's that, that burning, you know, love and desire to just to just do it and to grow within your craft.

And I heard something, albeit in a different art form, the other day. Someone was recounting a story. They went to a book signing by this very, very successful writer, and the person was up and then doing the Q&As at the end. And a gentleman in the audience got up and stood up and he said— I can't remember the name of the writer. And said, uh, said, um, you know, you and I, we started writing at the same time, we're the same ages, we, you know, I started to write at the same time, but you have gone on to have this huge level of success as a writer, and, you know, I'm just kind of like struggling to even get my first book published, as an example, you know, what should I do? And the famous writer, the French, stopped for a while, he thought about it, he said give up. And then there was quiet, like, because it's not like the answer people expected. And there was quiet in the room, and he said, but if after a couple of weeks you have to pick up the pen again and start writing again, then you're a writer. You know, that's, that's the difference. You know, that it just is in you. And I, and I think when I— if I go out, if I go out to restaurants, you know, okay, sometimes it might be wonderful, uh, if you can afford to go to Thomas Keller, to go to French Laundry and have this incredible meal, and and that's wonderful. And I can think of people like the, you know, the Tommies and the Franks in that kind of, you know, the top of their craft. But on a Friday night for me, for most of the time, where do I want to go? I want to go to that place on the road that I know is a great chef and they make the most incredible pizza dough that I just love. And it's not that they're— that the— there's still artistry in what they're doing, but it's, it's kind of it's kind of what kind of feeds your soul at different points in your life. So it's not, you know, that they're maybe technically they're on different stratospheres, what's going on, right? But the, the end result is very much the same. It gives you joy to have a great meal, and it gives you joy to hear a great, you know, a good musician or a great musician, as long as that you can sense they're authentic in what they're trying to do.

Uh, I think absolutely. I mean, I think my advice to anybody in any endeavor, especially with my boys now as they're young men in their 20s, I'm always preaching, "Find out what you love to do. Get really good at it. Find out how you can do that to make money." Because the object is to never work a day in your life. I always joke, people say, "Well, why do you play music for a living?" It's like, "Well, because I'm unemployable." You know, I, I think, um, that's, that's just it, you know. I, I, you know, I'll say, well, I, I've always, you know, my goal in life is to avoid real work. Um, the irony is playing music for a living is the hardest job I can ever— that I can think of. It's the hardest one that I've ever done. Um, but you do it because you just, you just can't not do it. Um, it's all about just, you know, you have to align your, your beliefs and your values and your purpose with what you do if you're going to, you know, find any kind of happiness or contentment. And so you figure it out. I think it's the other thing about being a musician, you know, when you're— if you're not going to be at the top echelon like a Tommy and a Frank, and you don't want to go to the bottom, you know, with the guys that are just, you know, sleeping on their friends' couches and playing, you know, on the street or in, in coffee shops is you have to get good at a lot of things, you know. It's— and so I'm naturally, you know, a pretty outgoing person, so I was a natural to be the front man in any band I was in. I always had a love for the sound engineering side of things, so I always had a good PA. I knew how to use it. I cultivated my singing voice so that I could sing in addition to playing the guitar. I was always secure the business end of things for any band I was in, so I was good at getting gigs, I was good at the marketing and promotion. And so, you know, where in many cases I surround— and I surrounded myself always with people that were better musicians than I was, but I was the vital linchpin because You know, if you didn't have Scott Perry, you didn't have a front man, you didn't have a singer, you didn't have a booking agent, and you didn't have a promotions manager. So it's, uh, you know, I think that's a part of it too, is, you know, you have to, you have to be— if you're not going to be the best at one thing, you better be really good at a bunch of things.

And you talk— I've heard you talk before about the importance of relationships, um, as a musician as well. You know, what are some of those kind of key relationships that that, uh, an artist, a musician should be fostering?

Well, I think so. I wrote recently a piece on Medium about this, and I call it, um, the 3 relationships that every guitar player needs to cultivate. And it's based loosely on a story that I read in Ryan Holiday's book, uh, The Obstacle Is the Way. Frank Shamrock, who trains like multidiscipline martial arts, and he calls it plus-minus-equal. And basically what it is, as it applies to guitar playing, is, you know, when you're at any stage in your development, number one, you need to find somebody that's better than you because you want to learn from them. And the best way to learn something is to then quickly turn around and try to teach it to somebody else. So then you need to have somebody that's a lesser player than you that you can share your learning with. And, you know, that process of teaching is the most profound way of like really developing that muscle and developing the skill that you yourself are trying to learn. And then, then you need to surround yourself also with people that are equal to you because you need that interaction in that, you know, that's, that's where you're practicing and jamming, working out material, working out your songs, that sort of thing. And so I think, you know, in really a really simple way, just thinking about those three relationships are, are the one— are, are really important. And built into all that is, you know, you, you have— you You can't be that guy, you know, the guy that is constantly needing attention, is whining because, you know, you're not playing enough of his songs in the band, or not getting enough attention, not getting enough solos. I mean, being a good, you know, being authentically a good person who is, uh, enjoyable to be around. I mean, if you're going to be in a band, you're going to be spending a lot of time with you know, usually sweaty guys in a, in a van going up and down the road.

Um, I believe, I believe in Nashville they call it hang chops. Have good hang chops.

You better have your hang chops down. Um, and it's amazing to me, you know, I'm sort of— I, I see myself in kind of like this middle area, um, as a, as a player and, and as a teacher. Just, I mean, I'm not, uh, you know, I'm not teaching at at a university and I'm not teaching on a major platform or anything like that, but I'm kind of quietly developing and doing my own thing on a fairly local regional level. But I meet, you know, I study with Frank Bignola, I study with Robin Nolan, I've studied with your dad. I've done 2 shows with Tommy Emmanuel. And got to just, you know, kind of hang backstage. And all, all my career I've, I've had these— I've sought the opportunity to meet my heroes. So when I was living in Chicago, I worked at Buddy Guy's Legends, and just so I could have dinner with them a couple times a week. Um, you know, I went to the houses of Honey Boy Edwards and Johnny Shines and all these people just to like soak up some of that, you know, that mojo. And Tommy, Frank, Robin, all these guys that I've met, um, Bucky Pizzarelli, uh, Olli Sakoli, I mean, they're just really good people, you know. And they, they, um, no pretension, no airs, very generous. Frank has drug me up on stage like half a dozen times with my students um, just genuine, genuinely good people. And then, you know, you're at the local level, you know, you call somebody up and say, hey, can I get the contact for that venue you played last? Oh no, I can't give you out my information, you know, because I don't want you taking my gig, you know. And it's just that, that it's just amazing that I think, you know, the cream does rise to the top because the people that I meet that are really at the top of the the food chain. They're just good people in addition to being monster players.

And it's interesting, you know, we spoke about one of the music colleges that will shall remain nameless earlier on, and it turns out some amazing musicians, although many of the most successful musicians I know that have gone there never completed their degree program. That's a little bit of a kind of pattern that often happens there. But, um, I know that they used to be not that good at teaching holistically, teaching about the rounded person. You're not putting a musician out into the world, you're trying to, you know, help create a great, you know, good person. There's going out there as well, and part of that component is the music, is the technical abilities. But if they're going to have any longevity in their career, like, and it sounds very simple, hand chops, you know, and things, things like that, you know, communication skills. Even, you know, I, I say, you know, the, the business side of what they do, it was very much looked down upon for many years, and, and especially in classical conservatories, not so much in, in more popular music styles, but definitely in classical conservatories. But that is, I think I can sense that changing now. I'm seeing it changing all the time where they're thinking much more about just the, the overall and frankly, the mental health of that student, because very many times that they've created these little mini monsters that have gone out there and they've been wonderfully technical, incredible players, but then they've never had any gigs or they're just not someone that you would want to be calling up and booking for that gig again. So I guess we're kind of moving almost into the kind of philosophy of of guitar playing at this point. I know you've got a keen interest in Stoicism, which is not something you necessarily think about in guitar playing. And so Stoicism, why does Stoicism— how can Stoicism make anyone a better guitarist?

Well, I'm going to answer that question, but I want— you just touched on something that's also very near and dear to my heart, and that's like the academic approach to learning music. There's a big difference between being a teacher and being an instructor. And I sometimes really feel like the place where art goes to die is university, because as soon as— I mean, if you think about, you know, the demise of classical music as a popular art form, the demise of poetry as a popular art, the demise of philosophy as an everyday practice by everyday people It all coincides with when they get kind of commoditized and then put into university so that instructors can decide how this stuff is going to be delivered. And so an instructor is just passing on information, and they have a vested interest in doling and dripping that out slowly over time and, and, and to do it in a way that's didactic, you know, where they determine what is and what is not proper technique. They determine the sequence and all that. Um, you know, there are a lot of great guitar players that have been to schools that we've already mentioned. Um, many of them dropped out. Um, there's two academically trained musicians that come to mind that I think are— remained fantastic artists, even almost despite their training. Julian Lage and Wynton Marsalis. I mean, because they are musicians, they are not technicians, they are artists. They're not just simply technically trained musicians. I see it in jazz, which since you and I have known each other has, has finally fallen below classical music in popularity. And that's, you know, how many university programs are professing to, you know, be churning out the world's best jazz musicians. Again, if you're just teaching, if it's all about instruction and technique, you've forgotten what it's really about, which is it's a language, and language is used to communicate, and it's a collaborative process. It's not a commodity. So I guess Another way to sustain a career is don't go to music school. So I'm sure that—

There should be a book. I remember there used to be a business book, Everything That They Don't Tell You at Harvard Business School or Business School. Maybe there should be the equivalent for music.

I think college is a great, like, if you don't know what else to do, go to college because you're going to be surrounded by really smart people and you can have experiences and and intelligent conversations. And it's a great place to find your way. It's an expensive place to find your way, but it's, you know, it's better than just, you know, getting a job at the local fast food chain and living in your parents' basement. But if you, you know, if you have, if you know what you want to be doing, then I'm much more in favor of surrounding, you know, getting yourself around people that are doing what you want to do and, you know, getting, finding a way to be useful to them and valuable to them so that they will show you. The way. Um, and in this day and age, it's, you know, I, I take lessons with Frank Vignola, my ultimate guitar hero. Cost me very little, really. I mean, and it cost me less than it would if I were to be taking private lessons from him up in New York. Um, and that relationship has, you know, I wanted to become a jazz guitar player. I'm, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting there. Um, but I, I, I tried through 3 other teachers, 3 other approaches. All of them were academically trained. All of them felt like I had absolutely no promise, didn't mind taking my money along the way. You know, Frank was like, oh, we can definitely do this, you know, let's do it. So the Stoicism thing, this is like my newest project, and it's, it's kind of one that I'm almost all in now. I I fell in love with Stoicism as an 8th grader when I was in school. I had a— I took Latin from 8th grade through high school. I was— so the dirty little secret is I was actually the winner of the Latin prize all 4 years running of my high school career. So I was that nerdy little kid that was like reading the Aeneid in Latin. But my teacher Don Kelly, who I saw not too long ago and still kind of stay in touch with, introduced the class to Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. And it was just, you know, it just totally rocked my world, even, you know, at that age. And throughout my life, I probably picked it up at least every couple of years. As I'm now, you know, in my middle age, I pick it up far more frequently because the Stoic concept of facing your mortality and like coming to peace with that is something that, you know, I recognize as something that can be motivating as opposed to being depressing. But Stoicism is really Again, it's just, you know, they don't teach Stoicism much in university because it's so easy to understand. It doesn't need somebody to interpret it for you. It's basically based on 3 principles: perception, action, and will. And those disciplines— the discipline of perception is things are, you know, we have this inborn need to create a narrative that, that fulfills whatever we want to get out of a situation. So sometimes it's ego boosting, like, oh, I'm fantastic, look at me, I, you know, I'm, I'm being asked to participate in this Guitar Summit, I must be really, really good. Or it can be the other, oh, you know, I'm, I'm a nobody, what am I doing here? But it's never— things are never what you think they are, things are just what they are. And so it's that ability to take your ego out of the equation and to just accept that things are the way they are. And when you're able to do that, then when you act, you can objectively look at a situation. And if it's a misfortune or an obstacle, you can find a way around or through it. Or in many cases, you can find a way to flip it and so that it then becomes an advantage. So like an example would be if you were to take somebody— if Frank Sinatra or Billie Holiday, two of the most popular vocalists in jazz, neither of whom had a very— they don't have an instrument that many other people would covet. I think Billie Holiday had a range of like an octave plus 2 notes or something like that. Um, Frank Sinatra did not have a, a very powerful voice, did not also have a great range. So they had this obstacle, this constraint that they had to work within. And so instead of saying, oh, I can't really sing, I'll become a busboy, um, they worked within their limitations and turned them into advantages. Like Frank Sinatra paid close attention to phrasing and being singing behind the beat, really working with the microphone, which was a new technology at that time, and becoming a very intimate type of singer, you know, and Billie Holiday just, you know, being Billie Holiday. So that would be, you know, that's the way a Stoic would approach any kind of situation. So that's a musical example of that. And then the concept of will is it's that reserve that you need to have when the obstacle is not surmountable. So I think of the will as kind of being the content of your character. So, you know, you're trying to keep the ego at bay, to, you know, keep that spirit of humility, to remain generous and empathetic. And, uh, you know, to be a good person, not because anybody's watching, but just because it's the right thing to do. And, you know, there are times when life deals you a really bad hand and there is no way around, over, or under it, and you have to simply wait it out or accept it. Um, and that's where, you know, again, the content of your character really comes in. I, uh, I've started developing this site called The Stoic Guitarist, and I've actually started kind of branding myself as Scott Perry, The Stoic Guitarist, because I think it's, it's a, it's a very pragmatic set of principles and practices that apply to anything that you do, whether it's playing the guitar or teaching the guitar or just kind of navigating, you know, what is, you know, what can be a very messy, a messy life in a messy world. And it's a way not just, you know, some people— so Stoicism has this rap of people being kind of emotionless, and that's really not it at all. It's, you know, you accept that you are going to have emotional responses, but you sit with them long enough to let them pass and you don't act upon them, because when you act from an emotional place, you are going to act badly, right? So just think of— you're on stage, you know, I've had, I've had this experience numerous times where, you know, you're on stage with great players, it's your turn to solo, and you decide that you're going to whip out every lick and flashy trick that you can think of just just to try to impress somebody that is clearly your better. And what ends up happening is you play the world's god-awful solo, you embarrass yourself in front of your peers and the person you're trying to impress and the audience. Whereas if you can, like, you know, instead of getting caught up in that moment and trying to— allowing the ego to rule your response, you say, you take a deep breath, maybe another deep breath, and you say, I'm just going to play what I can play. I'm going to keep it simple and direct. And remember that, um, you know, this is the other aspect of the Stoic Guitarist site, is it's, it says thrive through music and these three Stoic principles of perception, uh, disciplines of perception, action, and will. You know, music is a language. Languages are used to connect and communicate. Music is at its best when it's collaborative, not competitive. Um, and music is a craft, not a commodity. And, you know, I think if you can approach music in that way, then you're— again, that's, that's art, and you are an artist, and that's a higher calling than any particular art that you might be a practitioner of. So yeah, so that's—

yeah, I think if anyone's watching or listening to this just now, I know we're kind of obviously we're going to come to some like technical, like as in guitar technical things just now as well, but I think, you know, what you're saying is an important point, and not just in learning and playing, but also if there's— if you're watching or listening to this just now and you either have a career in music or you want to have a career in music, um, treating the, the highs and the lows, treating those, those imposters both the same, it is an extremely important lesson to learn. And I've had the good fortune of, of working close hand with some of the most incredibly successful musicians, and I, I've been also the person that's had to deliver them really great reviews and, and tell them they've won some award, and also really bad reviews and tell them something's happened, you know, here. And what I've noticed is the best people I've worked with, it's not that they're emotionless at all in those responses to those things, but they kind of go, they kind of take it on board. It's only really if they start to see a pattern with something, if they're seeing time and time again, someone, people are saying something about the performance or something, they might start, okay, reflecting on that. But it does take quite a lot of discipline to be able to build that thing, and it only takes it from just doing lots of work and then getting lots of good reviews and bad reviews, um, to be able to kind of see those reviews as the same. You know, it's, it's that perception thing that you can talk to as well. So I think it's, I think it's interesting that, that, that Stoic, um, uh, kind of philosophy and how that relates to guitar. Guitar playing. So let's, just as we start to kind of finish up here as well, I would love if you were to just show our listeners and viewers something they can take away this weekend and start working on. Obviously, we've not had you playing yet. And so we want to get some playing in here before we finish up. What is something they can, they can just go away, a technique or something that they can work on this weekend when they're sitting there with the guitar? That can just maybe open up something in their playing?

Well, I just picked up this guitar right before we got on the call, and it's a National Stylo, and you know, these things are kind of built for slide guitar. So I'm in open G tuning, D, G, D, G, B, and D. And what I love about slide guitar is you're able— so we all know about the tempered system, right? Keyboards and fretted instruments, we have to make some concessions with the way that they're tuned, and we're not playing the notes as they actually are, the actual like ratio that, um, and so violinists, vocalists, and slide guitarists are some of the musicians that had the ability to play the notes as they were, as they are actually mathematically intended. Um, so I love, um, that ability, uh, you know, in slide guitar. And I'm always kind of, kind of nerdy about trying to, to, um, figure that stuff out. But so in the blues world, as in the bluegrass world, the old-time world, and to a certain extent some other music like jazz. We have this, you know, we have this canon that we, that we learn from. And I call it like the blues Nazis or the bluegrass Nazis, you know, that they want to make sure that everybody's playing the song exactly the same way.

And it's police, right?

You know, we're gonna, we're gonna do this the way— we're gonna play this bluegrass song just the way that Bill Monroe did, even the mistakes. Um, and so, you know, again, my— what I'm— part of my shtick is self-expression. So I think, you know, like, you take a song like Walking Blues, you can learn it the way that Robert played it, and that's all well and good. Um, but, you know, it's— Robert only played it that way once, and it was in front of that microphone that one time. The next night at the juke joint, he played it slower, faster, longer, shorter, different tuning, different key, you know, and added lots of stuff to it. So I would just say, you know, learn and steal from the best, and then you've got to find a way to make it kind of uniquely yours. So rather than demonstrate a specific specific technique, it would be all right if I just played a snippet?

Sure, great.

Of a Robert Johnson tune. I'm going to take off these earphones so I can't— don't hit my thing. So, um, if I were to do— I'll add— I'll just make up a verse, um, in addition to, uh, to, to playing some stuff that Robert doesn't play.

When I woke up this morning, peered around for my shoes. Well, now, you know by that I must have had them on walking. When I woke up this morning, peered around for my shoes. Well, now, you know by that I had them on. Walking Blue. When I know I feel like going back home, I'm so home. Till I woke up this morning, all I had was gone. Yes, I woke up this morning, yeah, from my home. When I know I woke I woke up this morning, all I had was gone. So I said, come here baby, yes you can. Walk real slow, well I got them walking blues. It's time now, don't you want to go? Well, everybody is a walking blues sometimes. When I was here so big, I didn't feel like crying.

Yeah, nice, lovely, lovely.

Yeah, well, now I wish I had picked up my guitar sometime in the last 12 days and practiced a little bit. Muscle memory. So we just got to rely on muscle memory.

So I want to give, before we can just finish up here as well, you have this very cool series at your website, Guided Guitar Lessons, called Monday Morning Blues. We're going to link here on the page so people can go learn more about your teaching, your online courses, other things that you've got going, you know, read the articles that you've been writing recently. Tell them what they're going to get when, if they sign up for for Monday Morning Blues?

So Monday Morning Blues is— I stole this directly from our mutual friend Robin Nolan, who does a Music Mondays series. And so I just, I take questions from my students online and off, and I simply come up with a 5 to 10 minute lesson based on— I usually will like take a series of questions and like do it thematically. I'm getting ready to release a series on slide guitar playing. Um, you know, it started off as just kind of being general types, uh, lessons, but it's a, it's an absolutely free series. I can't remember, it's up to like 25 or 30 lessons now. Um, and, uh, yeah, so if, if they go, uh, go to guidedguitarlessons.com, all you need to do is plug in your email and your name and, uh, you'll have access to all the lessons that are currently there. And I say one a week, I usually let the beginning of the month just go ahead and put the month's worth in there. So at the beginning of every month you're getting 4 or 5 new lessons.

Well, that's great.

I'd also really love to have people check out the Stoic Guitarist. That is turning into a really neat little community of people that are, you know, kind of merrily following me down this primrose path of marrying music and Stoicism. We'll see where it goes.

Fantastic. We'll put all those links here as well. Um, Scott, thank you so much for coming on this and just kind of talking about you and your approach to teaching. And I highly encourage people, you know, go over and check out the Guided Guitar Lessons, that Monday Morning Blues series. Uh, I wish you all the best, uh, watching your, your teaching and your playing go from strength to strength, Scott.

I appreciate that. And before you leave, uh, James, I just want to tell everybody out there that James Taylor is the reason why I started teaching online. So I blame you, James. It's all your fault.

It's all my fault. There's students around the world that are getting the benefit of your teaching, which is awesome.

I really appreciate you. Thank you very much for having me.

Thanks, Scott.